Keep the 7th?
by Kevin Sawyer on May 20, 2010 4:14 PM EDT
in Detroit Pistons News
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PrintTo date, much of the discussion regarding the draft lottery has focused on who might be available at the number seven spot. After all, history indicates most teams opt to stick with their draft position.
That said, if we can argue that the Pistons aren't the prototypical lottery team (on account of injuries, new faces et al...), then it stands to reason Joe D. might opt to do something atypical. If he goes that route, what options are available? Let's examine a few.
Option A: Trading Up
The Pistons need a big man, and the elite prospects are almost certain to be drafted in the top five. So what would it take to move up? That answer might depend on the Minnesota Timberwolves. If draft projections hold, they'll be in a position to draft DeMarcus Cousins.
The T-Wolves cannot afford to fire another blank in the lottery. Between the Joe Smith fiasco and being shunned by Princess Rubio, the fan base has been completely demoralized. DeMarcus Cousins is a disaster in a bag for Minnesota. They are more likely to try to use Al Jefferson to trade up for Evan Turner, or settle on Wesley Johnson.
Johnson, though, might be available at the seven. If not, homegrown talent Cole Aldrich would fortify the front line, and play well with Kevin Love. He would also be perfect for billboards in Bachmann country. The Pistons could offer Tayshaun, along with the seven pick, for the Ryan Gomes, Ramon Sessions, Ryan Hollins and the four pick.
Why it happens: The Timberwolves save money, upgrade at two positions instead of one, and still have Al Jefferson to parlay into a solution at the two or three. The Pistons get their big man of the future, and a chance to take a look at Sessions, who some (especially here) think has star potential.
Why it doesn't: One of the reasons the Timberwolves were so keen to draft point guards last year was because they think Brewer and Gomes are getting the job done. It would be sad for a semi-blockbuster trade to collapse over the inclusion of a dime a dozen wing player, but, it is the T-Wolves. Also, Dumars would be taking all the risk in this trade. He would essentially be paying Cousins $10M per year right off the bat.
Option B: Trading Down
The "eat your oatmeal" option. The Pistons could leverage their lottery pick to swap with a contender, who would take on Rip Hamilton in exchange for an expiring contract.
The most obvious example would (as I've mentioned before) have the Pistons sending Rip Hamilton to Dallas in exchange for Erick Dampier. The Mavs could use the pick to fortify their front line, and Rip would give the Mavs another scorer for a title run.
The Jazz would also be another possibility. A Hamilton/Maxiell/seven-pick for Kirlenko trade works, and would give Utah two lottery picks to offset the (presumable) loss of Carlos Boozer.
Why it happens: Hamilton might be overpaid, but efficient scoring from the wings has been tough to come by as of late. Middling contenders should jump at the chance to turn an expiring into a now/later proposition. With their worst contract off the books, the Pistons can begin the rebuilding process in earnest.
Why it doesn't: With lots of teams desperate to clear space, an even better deal might come along. Plus, a lot of GMs will be clamoring for the headlines that come with making the trade the gets LeBron or D-Wade to Chicago. It would also be a pretty damning concession of defeat on Dumars' part.
Option C: Double Down!
In this case, the Pistons would use the draft pick to upgrade at a position, and Prince's expiring to take on more contracts.
Would Portland come to the table? Tayshaun/seven-pick for LaMarcus Aldridge and Martell Webster works, though Aldridge has a poison pill contract, so they might have to Memphis it a bit. Portland gets a lot more flexibility, and can at least address the gap left by Aldridge.
Why it happens: The Pistons get some much needed front court offense. If rumors of Portland's dissatisfaction with Aldridge are true, well, this solves that, and without having to take a bath on talent.
Why it doesn't: Does Portland need flexibility? On paper, they have a contending team. Further, with Batum stepping up, bringing Prince for a full year might not make a lot of sense.
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Great post
But why would we be paying Cousins 10 mil rite off rip?
Practice safe sex . Go fuck yourself !
I was curious about that too.
I think its because of Tay’s expiring.
by Biz Markie Moon on May 20, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm crunching #'s to figure it out now.
I’ll let you know what I come up with.
Practice safe sex . Go fuck yourself !
Basically
You would be paying his salary, plus that of Gomes and Hollins, who will be of little use.
by Kevin Sawyer on May 20, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
That's what I figured
But at least we get Sessions too witch could make Stuckey easier to part with and get some other hole filled.
Practice safe sex . Go fuck yourself !
Another Trade Scenario with Sixers instead of T'Wolves
Lot of talk that the Sixers may try and move out of the 2nd overall to get into a pick more suitable for the players they’re most interested in Johnson/Favors…possibility of Minnesota packaging 16/23 with 4th overall to move up to 2nd overall.
So IF Wesley Johnson falls to 7, maybe we work out a player swap of Cousins for Johnson and throw in any of the following trade scenarios (all scenarios assume that we’re swapping Johnson for Cousins)
- Rip & CV31 for Elton Brand (assumption being that we’d have to take Brand in order to get the 2nd overall)
- Rip & Max for Elton Brand (same assumption as above)
Outside of trades for Brand, I don’t see Philly even considering this with us. And for us, I’d argue that Brand’s contract is worth taking on for 2 more years if we move Rip & Max or Rip & CV in doing so. It gives us far greater balance of roster just getting Rip off the team, leaves Tayshaun open for a mid-season trade, and while Brand’s contract would be hard to swallow, it would at least be expiring 2 years from now giving us considerable cap flexibility in time to sign Cousins to an extension.
Depending on what kind of magic Kander can stir up inside Brand’s knees, we’d look at starting Brand at the PF alongside Cousins and have Jerebko getting himself around 30 minutes a game possibly split between the 3 and 4.
Philly would have to entertain the possibility of acquiring two solid players to get rid of Brand’s contract even though they’d likely prefer Prince in either of the above scenarios (but if they go with Prince then Johnson would have to come off the bench his rookie year). Also, I don’t know that I’d be willing to give up our expiring if we’re taking on Brand’s contract…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Note that I posted this in another draft day trade thread, but since Kevin started this post I figured it would be relevant here as well.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I still believe Elton Brand can be a good player.
I’m afraid about the cap flexibility though.
by Biz Markie Moon on May 20, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
But realistically, we’d need flexibility in this coming off-season to potentially re-sign Stuckey (assuming JoD isn’t an idiot and extends him this off-season) or look to sign a replacement PG.
After that, we’ve got our core players locked in to longer term contracts or our younger players still on their rookie contracts until Brand’s contract expires or becomes an expiring and we trade him elsewhere.
At worst, we’re forced to keep Brand on our team for next season. After that he’s only got 1 year left and his trade value goes way up because he’ll be an expiring max contract deal in a re-negotiated CBA scenario. And if Kander has any positive impact on him then its just icing on the cake.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
That said,
If we could swap with Minny, I’d rather do that. But Kahn is so miffed that he’s now been pushed out of the top 3 2 years in a row that supposedly he’s looking to do whatever he can to trade up to the 2nd overall with Philly.
So essentially, our top 2 prospective trade partners are also the most likely to trade with each other and each retain the overall benefit that they’re looking for (Philly getting extra value by trading down and taking Johnson/Favors and Minnesota trading up). I think where we have a distinct advantage over Minnesota is that there is no way that Minnesota would be willing to take on Brand’s contract…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Oh and both of those trade scenarios work
on RealGM’s trade checker that is.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
The one thing that hurts this deal
is the fact that Philly would all of a sudden be over-stocked at the 2 with Rip and Iggy. They’d have the vast majority of their salary devoted there and they’d be pretty weak up front. They would still be starting Dalembert at the 5 so it would almost have to be CV and Rip so that CV could provide them with scoring punch in the starting lineup…although if you put Max in the starting lineup you could run a guard/wing heavy game with 2 defensive minded, solid rebounders to get you your offensive boards and second chance buckets.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I've heard this before
Depending on what kind of magic Kander can stir up
Didn’t we think Kander could resuscitate another set of bad Philly knees a while back?
just EPINION
To be fair,
Chris Webber played a million times better for us than he did for Philly…that said, it still wasn’t enough :-(
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I like Option A
The other two, not so much, especially the Portland scenario. Aldridge is basically a little bit better version of Charlie V. I’d rather have just about anyone we could get at #7 on a rookie deal over Aldridge.
Nice post!
I’ll co-sign that option A looks good.
I’m torn on the Mav’s version of option B— it would be a clean, simple way to cut ties with Rip (and his contract), but it’s a pretty steep price as we really need that pick to get an inexpensive (and hopefully good) PF/C. I probably like the Jazz version more because it would relieve us of both Rip and Max’s contracts.
I would pass on option C.
I wouldn’t mind Jod trading down a little if he can pick up another 2nd round pick, though not sure how feasible it is. Would a team like Indiana give us the 10th pick in the 1st and 2nd rounds for our pick? I want Varnado and Parakhouski! Then we’re more free to gamble on Whiteside in the 1st round.
i need a vomit bag
for option b. we give up on a future impact player and get rid of one of the best pistons in history for dampier? Or AK? I know you’re throwing shit against the wall, but the palace would burn if JOD used last seasons stink bomb just to move a contract he signed less then 18 months ago. How about we keep the pick and draft Donuts Montezumas.
I think I know why Stuckey passed out durring that game.
He hit his head on his ’’ceiling’’ too hard thinking it was higher then it really is due to Joe D blowing sunshine up his ass for years. Just a thought. lol
Practice safe sex . Go fuck yourself !
by DetBalla on May 20, 2010 5:16 PM EDT reply actions 8 recs
I feel like I shouldn't, but, rec'd
I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.
And your first greened comment I assume
SPEACH! SPEACH! SPEACH!
I remember my first green like it was yesterday… Which kind of sucks because it was an anger/alcohol induced F U to JoD. Not very meaningful.
I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.
Yes it is.
First off I would like to thank God, all the DBB’s, and everyone who believed in me from day one . I’m sure I’m forgetting some people. I’m going to Disney World!
Practice safe sex . Go fuck yourself !
by DetBalla on May 20, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Alternate diagnosis...
…some kind of butt-sunshine-induced oxygen deficiency.
by -PS- on May 20, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Trade Down scenario
So I was talking with my good friend who is a diehard Pistons fan but has been living in NOLA for the last 3 or so years. I asked him what he thought the chances were of the Hornets trading CP3 and his sense was that if they traded anyone it would be Collison for 3 main reasons: 1) CP3 has completely integrated himself into the community, 2) NOLA is not a basketball-centric city and so 3) People really only go to Hornets games to see Chris Paul. As such he feels that it is way more likely
So based on those assumptions what are your thoughts on the following trade scenario:
Det Gets:
Collison
Okafor
Posey/Morris Peterson (their salary impacts are equivalent but Peterson is expiring next year)
11th overall draft pick
NO Gets:
Tayshaun
Maxiell
Daye
7th overall draft pick
We’d lose out on financial flexibility but we’d be gaining a serviceable center/PF in Okafor and the PG we covet in Collison. We take whichever player NO is willing to give up between Posey and Peterson, and NO uses our pick to take Aldrich while we use ours to draft the big with the greatest potential/talent left on the board.
The only part of this that I really struggle with is why would anyone wnat Daye and Tayshaun since they appear to be almost exactly the same player just at different stages of their career. My original scenario had us sending Stuckey to NO which I decided I wasn’t okay with. You could swap Daye with Stuckey and this trade would still work.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I'd rather take Cole A. then pay for Okafor
I wouldn’t mind so much if we weren’t losing all our flexibility .
Practice safe sex. Go fuck yourself !
Yeah...
I think the unspoken benefit of this is bringing yet another UConn grad to the team…our starting lineup would be:
Collison/Stuckey (let them fight it out)
Hamilton/Gordon
Jerebko/Peterson or Posey
CV/Donuts Montezuma
Okafor/Wallace
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
CV shouldn't be anywhere near any Donuts.
Practice safe sex. Go fuck yourself !
by DetBalla on May 20, 2010 7:22 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
I'm on a roll today.
It must be all the Coors Light I’ve been drinking.
Practice safe sex. Go fuck yourself !
He should be kept away from Donuts like he's Fat Joe
/music geek’d, piggy back’d, and pun’d
by Biz Markie Moon on May 20, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
/music geek’d, piggy back’d, and pun’d
Big Pun’d?
"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"
by Mike Payne on May 20, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Could we expand on option C to include Denver and Nene?
If Portland got enough, they would get our 7th pick and send their 22nd pick to Denver as part of the deal, since Denver doesn’t have a pick this year.
The two players we’d be targeting would be LaMarcus Aldridge and Nene.
Who would Denver have to play Center ?
Without Nene all they really have is the birdman and he’s not a starter. So they would be looking for a starting center for sure. At least a Haywood type of guy .
Practice safe sex. Go fuck yourself !
You just answered your own question. Haywood.
I’m just going off the rumor a few weeks back that Denver might be looking to trade Nene.
by Roll The Dyess on May 20, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Potential trade?
Detroit gets: L. Aldridge, Nene, JR Smith
Denver gets: B Gordon, M Webster, Maxiell, and Porland’s 22nd pick
Portland gets: Charlie V, Daye, R Balkman, our 7th pick, our 36th pick, and a future 2nd rounder from denver
Denver does it firstly because they and JR Smith didn’t really end the season well, so they wouldn’t mind trading him i’m guessing. Then Ben Gordon would step in and take over the scoring from the two guard position in a much more reliable fashion. Maxiell would fit in very well with their tough style of play up front. Webster gives them Carmelo’s first ever reliable backup. Then they also get a first round pick. They currently don’t have a pick this year. What they lose in Nene would be significant, but they will probably be able to recover a good portion of his production by signing say Brendan Haywood for example with their MLE.
Portland is a little more tricky. I’m not sure why they would trade Aldridge, but I’ve heard the possibility enough times that I’ll play along. Everyone knows Portland loves draft picks, so a 7th, 36th, and future second rounder should make them pretty happy. Charlie V is about 3/4th the production of Aldridge, not too bad, plus gives them a different dimension than before in a frontcourt player that can shoot the 3. Daye and Balkman give them a couple young players with potential, Daye more so than Balkman. But bottom line the only way I see Portland giving up Aldridge is by appeasing their infatuation with having a ton of assets.
Our lineup would look like:
Stuckey
Hamilton/JR Smith
Prince/Jerebko/Summers
Aldridge/Jerebko
Nene/Wilcox
by Roll The Dyess on May 20, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
no offense but...
EWWWW! aldridge = pansy, nene = legit and jr = out of control ben gordon.
Maxiell and I once shared a box of baby-ohs for breakfast.
No Baby Sheed
Emphasis on the “Baby” part. Sheed didn’t play up to his abilities on offense but he never got credit for being a great defender. Aldrige is a very poor man’s Dirk Nowitzki. A hobo’s Nowitzki if you will. He can’t score or get rebounds like Dirk and he’s a worse defender, sadly enough. Let some other team overpay for Aldrich.
I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.
Unlike Detroit, Denver is not stupid enough to spend $11 million on a backup shooting guard. Smith’s attitude aside, they have that position sewn up on the cheap, for around the same production and value of Ben Gordon (save that Smith is 4 inches taller and can play, you know, defense). For them to take on Ben Gordon’s contract, they’d need some serious talent coming their way. With your trade, they wouldn’t get any talent. Why on Earth would they give up Nene for ugly contracts and under-performers?
As for Portland, this move would signal that the Blazers have given up on the playoffs altogether and are ready to rebuild. Yet if they’re rebuilding, it’s likely one of the last two players they’ll ship out is LaMarcus Aldridge. Besides, Aldridge is not greater than the sum of Villanueva, Daye and our 1st and 2nd round picks this year.
It would be pretty awesome if Joe could pull that trade off, even if we would still only have one 3-point shooter (in this case, Smith). But unfortunately this trade makes no sense for either trade partner, effectively making those teams worse (save for the fact that Portland would love those picks, yet it would signal a rebuild which they don’t need to undertake).
I’m attempting to be a bit more cordial about my responses to your trade ideas, so I’m saying this with all due respect, but I think this is another case where your concept is very much clouded by homer bias.
"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"
no homer basis.
i hate charlie, ben is ok, and i’m sick of rip and tay. Why do you think i try to think of trades all the time. i just figure others must value them more than I, because i’d do anything to get rid of them all.
its actually the other way around. yall say aldridge probably isn’t that good, but to me he’s 600% better than what we got.
by Roll The Dyess on May 21, 2010 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions
oh and daye
that’s why he’s in every one of my trade scenarois. so damn skinny, i could knock him over.
by Roll The Dyess on May 21, 2010 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Portland is going to stand pat
Get healthy and take their chances. Maybe they move one of Oden/Pryz this year, but if they do, it will be for quality talent. They love Aldridge, and he actually makes sense paired with Camby/Oden/Pryz.
Honestly, Portland when healthy is scary without doing a thing to their team.
Yeah I figured that out while typing
Idk why I even finished asking. I guess I’m a bit drunk. Fuck it!
Practice safe sex. Go fuck yourself !
totally off topic
Epic CSI season finale! The ending totally destroyed me, mind completely blown. I don’t think they could have done a better job with it, very happy indeed.
by bearded thundar on May 20, 2010 10:12 PM EDT reply actions
that should have been CV
He’s got much better boobs
by bearded thundar on May 21, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
bearded thunder
SB Nation sent me an email back about that edit function that said they are NOT planning on adding it due to various bullshit reasons.
Practice safe sex. Go fuck yourself !
really? that's bullshit
I only got an automated response, not a reason why they aren’t adding it
by bearded thundar on May 21, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I wanted charlie’s head to be the biggest and at the top of the list.
by Roll The Dyess on May 21, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
This shoulda been the caption.
“Why you build team with so many losers. In Russia we call this government.” – Mikhail Prokhorov
by Roll The Dyess on May 21, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
In Russia
Crappy basketball team buys you!
by Kevin Sawyer on May 21, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
draftexpress NBA combine interviews are up...
Epke Udoh and Daniel Orton gave really good interviews. The measurements done at the combine should be up on the site too.
This is a very deep big man draft. I think the Pistons should trade some of their 2011 second round picks to get more second round picks this year. Jarvis Varnado, Gani Lawal, Kevin Seraphin, and Larry Sanders could all conceivably drop to early in Round 2.
that's what I've been saying for quite a while
There are a ton of high risk projects in the second round, it would be worth it take trade for another 2 or 3 and hope at least 1 pans out.
Also good news from Danno at pistonspowered, Cole Aldrich and Whiteside scored very well on the wingspan:height curve where as Davis and Monroe fell considerably short. Knowing Dumars’ love for long arms, we should be getting a better player than originally planned.
by bearded thundar on May 21, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Whiteside would have one of the longest wingspans in the league, and Aldrich also has a good standing reach. Langlois posted some of the measurements here.
7'7" wingspan...
He’s almost worth it just for that…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Meh okay maybe not
but Dexter Pittman? Yes, please.
I wonder if DaJuan Summers + our 2010 2nd Rounder would be enough to move up into the late 1st round and grab Pittman.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
draftexpress
has pittman in the late second round.
Maxiell and I once shared a box of baby-ohs for breakfast.
Yeah...
People are thinking that his wingspan and hand size could help him move up into the late 1st if he can cut some weight between now and the draft.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
No to pittman
Not even in the late 2nd.
by Roll The Dyess on May 21, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Good reasoning there...
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on May 21, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Whiteside's standing reach is 9'5"
If he has a 7" vertical, then he should be able to touch the rim.
Also, Aldrich has a 5" standing reach advantage over Udoh. Udoh’s shoulder’s must slope down and Aldrich’s must be more straight across…
Interested to see the stand still vertical reach for these players…
by Quick Darshan on May 21, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
watching the combine today, the first thing i noticed about udoh was his shoulders, hes got some wide ass shoulders kind of like dwight howard.
Maxiell and I once shared a box of baby-ohs for breakfast.
that's a good thing
It means he has a lot of room to put on muscle. As I understand him, Udoh is a very skilled player that needs to bulk up. If he’s got the frame already, then I say go for it.
by bearded thundar on May 21, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Udoh’s got wide shoulders, but like QD pointed out, he has a pretty crappy standing reach. Also he’s 23, so if he hasn’t added the weight yet, it’s probably not gonna happen.
that isn't necessarily true
It could have a lot to do with his training regimen or that genetically he was a late bloomer in general that he hasn’t put on the weight. 23 is quite old for a prospect, but it isn’t unheard of for males to continue growing until they are about 25.
The standing reach might be an unsolveable issue though, I can’t really think of how you can improve that (perhaps certain shoulder exercises could raise his base?)
by bearded thundar on May 21, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
If Udoh is like me
He could be about to have a final growth spurt in which his shoulders get much broader and more muscular. I bought a bunch of new clothes when I was 23, figuring they would last me a long time. A year later my shoulders had grown to the point that now the sleeves on the shirts are almost two inches too short.
I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.
exactly my point
genetics is the one variable that cannot be modified through any kind of training. If he was designed to be a late bloomer, then that’s what he’ll be.
Another important thing to look at is the weight, he weighs 240 pounds. He’ll be no push over, unlike Amir. Just because someone doesn’t have the bulk does not mean they do not possess the strength.
Torque is defined to be the rotational force such that t=rFsin(phi). The truly special athletes are those whose muscle fibers are just a few hairs longer than those of the average athlete, and that gives them a big advantage. That is likely why Pedro Martinez and Tim Linecum are two of the greatest power pitchers in the history of baseball and yet have very small builds (relative).
Long story short, he doesn’t necessarily need big muscles to generate the power (as in joules per unit of time) he needs.
by bearded thundar on May 21, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
/science'd
That’s easily the smartest post i’ve ever seen on dbb. Bring more please.
by Roll The Dyess on May 21, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
if you ask, you will recieve
In case you hadn’t already realized, I happen to enjoy math and science. I actually got into the University of Michigan’s non-degree program as a 16 year old.
by bearded thundar on May 21, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Great points BT
Rip and Tay have always been thin and wiry but they are also strong. It reminds me of my old high school buddy who was a star on the wrestling team. He was lanky as hell but strong as an ox. I had 50 pounds on him and he could have whupped my heavy ass any time he wanted.
That’s why I joined the rifle team instead.
I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.
The problem is Udoh’s unfortunate combination of a poor standing reach and somewhat slight frame. Those two factors made him a remarkably inefficient inside scorer— his freshman and sophomore year he had a sub-.500% 2 pt fg%, and last season, as an older junior he was at 50.5% on 2 pt fg’s, which is horrible for a PF/C prospect (PF prospects who can’t score inside at the NCAA level very rarely make an impact in the NBA, especially if they can’t do it at the age of 22).
Still, who knows, adding strength might help his inside scoring, but why gamble on someone like Udoh when much better options are available?
the standing reach is strange
That must have been a mistake or he had a lot of tightness in his shoulders/arms (preventing full extension).
The guy is just as tall as Aldrich, has the same wingspan but has a 5" shorter standing reach? That must be a mistake, it just doesn’t make sense.
Regardless I think that a good vertical can help with the that. And it wouldn’t have any effect on his strength, so I would take note of it, but wouldn’t call it a deal breaker.
As for the inefficiency, I cannot explain that for I know very little about the guy. All that know is that he happens to have a very good feel for the game, and that is based off what others have told me, not what I have seen myself.
by bearded thundar on May 21, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
The guy is just as tall as Aldrich, has the same wingspan but has a 5" shorter standing reach?
It’s odd and might have been a typo, but could also just be a randomly unlucky body type— from watching Udoh’s interview on draftexpress it looks like he has unusually wide shoulders, which would add some inches to his wingspan, but not his standing reach.
I watched Udoh at Michigan a handful of times and always liked him, and was disappointed when he transferred, and I’ll be rooting for him to make it in the league, but the 7th pick is way too high to think about drafting him.
The bigger the hands, the bigger the basketball talent.
I’m pretty sure hand width matters a lot more than hand height in basketball, and Whiteside has the widest hands. Whiteside’s attributes compared to the others make him a little more appealing. I mean, having width has always helped my game.
by Roll The Dyess on May 21, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
This directly contradicts you saying no to Pittman
Who has bigger hands than Whiteside with 10.5" width and 10.3" length. If we’re going by hand size then Pittman would be a solid 2nd round pick up.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I’m afraid Pittman might have too much exposure to negative involvements. I just didn’t want to bring it up seeing as his brother was shot and killed thursday.
by Roll The Dyess on May 21, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t Danny Ainge go by skull shape? I’m a bit leery of some of these metrics being pulled out………
by garrettelliott on May 21, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't doubt it
the guy’s a dumbass and did absolutely nothing productive until he got Rondo and KG+Ray handed to him through trades (and the Rondo move looked meaningless at the time).
by bearded thundar on May 21, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that’s the word I was looking for. Thanks, PS!
by garrettelliott on May 21, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Pittman as a second round guy
But with his size and length I can’t see him lasting to #54. We would have to move up somehow to get him.
Awful news about his little brother. My condolences to Dexter and his family.
I'm just like a sports reporter, but without the insight or money.
Pistons scouting Ed Davis hard
Pistons mike is right in his face during the Draft Express interview.
I don't think he could have had a better interview.
He talked about the Pistons and Ben Wallace for like 3 minutes.
by Roll The Dyess on May 21, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Aminu also had a Pistons rep at his interview.
Not nearly as good as good as Davis’.
by Roll The Dyess on May 21, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
interview rankings
I’d rank the interviews for potential piston picks like so:
1) Ed Davis
2,3) Cole Aldich/ Daniel Orton
4) Aminu
5) Monroe
6) Udoh
(Whiteside didn’t have an interview posted)
by Roll The Dyess on May 21, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Aldrich’s interview a lot also.
The thing that I’ve liked about Cousins and Aldrich for a long time both from watching them play and looking at their stats throughout the year, they both struck me as capable of adapting their games and improving on weaknesses. It’s pretty surprising how much that comes through in an interview— from all the players from this draft class, they’re the only two I’ve seen who have been upfront about the fact that they’re still improving and not finished products yet. IME, that suggests a desire to improve and adapt which is one of the most important traits in a lottery pick.
agreed, some of those asking the questions were not the smartest people.
by Roll The Dyess on May 21, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
To me it seems as if he is a very honest guy.
He doesn’t give the “correct” answer, the political one. Instead he is very hones in a simple mannert. Which I guess can be misinterpreted by some people ( I read someone’s opinion of him not doing good at interviews), but I happen to like it.
BTW, the interview I saw was by the announcer at the combine.
Where in the world is Cheikh Samb?
I don't like him
It bugs me when people chomp on their gum like that.
Practice safe sex. Go fuck yourself !
Wingspan/Height ration
According to the draftexpress twitter feed, the guy with the best wingspan/height ratio is some dude named Jason Love. His wingspan is 11% greater than his height. Candidate for Jod’s WTF pick?
depends on ratio of long/smooth/stroke ability
by Gabe F-B on May 21, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just saw the Cousins interview. Love that he said Pau Gasol was his favorite big man. I think Gasol is the smartest player in the NBA and is on my dream team of fave players to watch.
I really hope these “attitude” concerns about Cousins continue because they’ve always seemed very overblown to me. The only good Kentucky highlights I saw in the tourney game they lost were Cousins making hustle plays on defense. Dude’s a flat out stud.
by Quick Darshan on May 21, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Pau Gasol
I don’t want to like him but when I watch him play I can’t help but enjoy his skills.
by garrettelliott on May 21, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
re: Cole Aldrich
I just made this connection in my mind:
Kinda looks like Niedermeyer
"not by the face, but by the name they knew him-- racist against rappers, they all look the same to him"
by Mike Payne on May 22, 2010 9:38 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
but nothin like Nederlander
"The Lakers were favored 8 to 1 odds to beat the Pistons. Bullshit." - Bill Davidson, Championship parade, 2004
I vote we threw in Ryan Raburn as part of the Philly deal
I don’t think it would even count against the cap rules, as he doesn’t play basketball; he’s just such an awful fielder at every position he plays and is a mediocre batter at best that I’d rather get nothing for him than deal with his horrible play any longer.
by bearded thundar on May 22, 2010 12:17 PM EDT reply actions
Didn't a minor leaguer once get traded for a bunch of bats?
We could ask for philli cheese steaks in return.
by Roll The Dyess on May 22, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Even better...
We could trade away our Arby’s Triple Double Fries bullshit for a Triple Double Philly Cheesesteak in Philly.
After all, with how rare it happens in Detroit, I’m likely to be willing to drive to Philly for an $8 cheesesteak anyways. And I live in Seattle.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Anyone else watching the Combine coverage on NBATV?
I’m surprised at how interesting it is. The commentators are very frank (especially Len Elmore) about the prospects. They also gave a lot of insights into how the scouting process works, what parts of the combine measurements are misleading, ways that GMs think, and so on.
They also had a very frank, honest discussion about college athletics, money, staying in school and all those other gray areas.
It’s worth a look.
don't have NBA tv
would be nice if you could do a recap for those of us who can’t view it
by bearded thundar on May 22, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Anybody hear that the 76ers are willing to trade their 2nd pick but have to take Brand with it?
Brand has a terrible contract but getting a chance at either Wall or Turner might be what the franchise needs.
if we trade up for the #2 pick
then we’ll have no problem getting Aminu
"not by the face, but by the name they knew him-- racist against rappers, they all look the same to him"
by Mike Payne on May 22, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
aminu as the second pick?
or are you saying if we were to have the 2nd and still the 7th?
Maxiell and I once shared a box of baby-ohs for breakfast.
if that happend...
/doin’ it wrong
Don't be callin' me dog cause I want ya to say it backwards - Tech N9ne
by MaxiellEatsLittleOnes on May 22, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
if we can get that second pick
we MUST get Aminu
"not by the face, but by the name they knew him-- racist against rappers, they all look the same to him"
The biggest reason
I am sold on Aldrich is that he knows that he is a center and he will do his job as a center.
anyone watching the celts.magic? this is pathetic. i cant believe this score. i just started watching it, how did it get so bad?
Orlando Tragic
"The Lakers were favored 8 to 1 odds to beat the Pistons. Bullshit." - Bill Davidson, Championship parade, 2004
Cousins FTW.
Q: Are you the villain of the draft class?
A: Yep… Which one would you take? A nasty big man or a friendly one?
Boom shakalaka.
by garrettelliott on May 23, 2010 1:06 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Demarcus Cousins the teh supervillain
A killer who loves children, one who is as well skilled in destruction as well as building.
by Biz Markie Moon on May 23, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey all
Wolves fan checking in here; thought I would point out a couple of things:
1. One thing that isn’t accurate here is that the Wolves think “Brewer and Gomes are getting the job done.” Believe me, nobody thinks that, certainly not David Kahn, who talks all the time about needing better wings.
2. The Wolves don’t really save money in the scenario you presented, at least not this year, because Gomes’ contract is not fully guaranteed; he can be waived and owed only $1 million a year each of the next 3 years. That contract is an asset.
3. I actually wouldn’t mind having Prince around for a year; the Wolves desperately need a veteran with some winning experience. He’s someone we’ve talked about trying to get.
4. But not at this cost. Frankly, I read the rumor about the Pistons wanting to move up, and had a very hard time figuring out how to make it work. I can’t really see it. It would almost have to include Jerebko, which I doubt you want to do. Even then, I’m not sure. Cousins has so much freaking talent.
5. There’s no doubt that the Wolves would prefer to move up to get Turner, and will explore those options before they consider moving down.
Good luck this off-season. We all are going to need it.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 23, 2010 4:36 PM EDT reply actions
Let me ask you a quick question because you're a T-Wolves fan
What’s the fan consensus on David Kahn? He’s easy to make fun of, but do you guys think he’s a misunderstood GM that screwed up with the draft last year and it’s painted his rep ever since or do you all think of him as a complete idiot?
by Biz Markie Moon on May 23, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Mixed feelings, depends on who you ask
One thing is certain: he isn’t dumb. He’s very smart; sometimes I think his problem is hubris—he knows he’s smart and thinks he can use his intellect to overpower problems.
Generally, it’s wait and see. He hasn’t really done much yet; he admitted when he took over that last year was going to be punted. The trade to get the 5th pick last year from Washington was excellent—two guys who weren’t going to be part of the future (Miller and Foye) got them the rights to Rubio. I know everyone thinks they know about Rubio, but really, they don’t. I’m fairly convinced that he is going to play for the Wolves.
The mistake was Flynn, obviously. We all wanted Curry, he was the obvious pick and better player at that spot, but Kahn had been wowed by Flynn in a workout, and blew it. No doubt mistake. Flynn wasn’t terrible for a rookie, and will get better, but appears to fit better as a scoring lead guard off the bench for someone.
Other than that, he mostly conserved cap space, hired Rambis, and spent the year evaluating. Took a flyer on Darko Milicic, which, you’ll no doubt love to hear, was a mildly pleasant surprise.
It’s all about this summer. And he knows it. Either he puts the team on the road to being competitive, or we’re doomed. He seems to have correctly identified the problems (ha—you could find problems for the Wolves with a blindfold). They need a star, a number 1 guy. They have to get better on the wings, and Jefferson and Love probably cannot co-exist.
Solving them is the harder part. I personally am not optimistic, but I think most fans would give him an incomplete as of now. Some really like the fact that he works hard, goes out looking for deals (unlike McHale used to), and remain optimistic. Others look at the decision making that went into the Flynn pick and cringe.
He also just hired Ronzone, as you know. I hope that’s a good thing.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 23, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
If you guys do not trade the pick
And Favors is off the board, would you rather have an athletic big like Davis or another Jefferson like player in Cousins? I’ll be frank and say that I do not like much about Ed, but he would allow you guys to trade either Love or Big Al for another star. Personally, I would build around Love as he seems to be a rebounding machine, but I would understand the logic to work with Jefferson (due to his superior scoring).
Or how about Turner, I honestly believe there is a better than 30% chance that he falls to your pick. If it came down to him and DeMarcus, what route do you think Kahn would take? He seems to have a habit of stockpiling the same position, so you never know with him.
by bearded thundar on May 23, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, there's no doubt they take Turner if he's there
Turner is the guy they absolutely want. It won’t come down to Turner OR Cousins, though, I can’t see how both of them are still on the board at 4. Frankly, I can’t imagine anything but Wall/Turner/Favors as the first 3, but I guess NJ could fall for Cousins.
At any rate, I’m pretty sure what they want to do is trade up to 2 to guarantee themselves Turner. If they can’t do that, I have trouble seeing them do anything but take Cousins. There is some debate in Wolves fan circles whether to trade Jefferson (my preference) or Love, but one of them is almost certainly gone no matter what happens in the draft.
They really struggle on the floor together; they just can’t defend as a pair.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 23, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
that's what I figured
I just wanted the opinion of an actual Wolves fan.
The way I see it, Philly has it’s hands tied because the best player for them would be an athletic forward as they are stuck with Brand and Iggy. Turner would improve them, but not by much as Iggy does just about as much, and Cousins just would be too slow for their run and gun system. They could always take Favors, but there’s still a lot of debate whether he’ll actually pan out. It seems their best option would be to trade down to 6th or lower; that way they can get rid of Brand and also take a player that better fits their system (like Johnson) without pissing off their fanbase too much by passing up on a potential superstar.
As for the Nets, if they were to take Favors they would have a monster lineup for LeBron. Think about it, Harris, CDR, LeBron, Favors, Lopez – with any half way mediocre bench that team wins at least 55-60 games.
Assuming that the Pistons trade with Philly and draft Cousins, that would in fact leave Turner on the board.
It’s a bit of a stretch, but I personally wouldn’t mind taking Brand if we also got Cousins and they took Rip off our hands. Kander is one of the best physicians in the league, and should be able to work his knees. At worst, he can just help stretch the floor, and in 2 years become a massive expiring contract. That seems to be a win for both teams.
by bearded thundar on May 23, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, the debate among Wolves fans is whether it's worth it to take on
Brand’s contract to get Turner. I seriously doubt they would take Hamilton’s deal in return, though; that doesn’t do a whole lot for them.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 23, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
It actually does
It move Iggy back to the 3, gives them another consistent scoring option that can occasionally handle the ball and likely another productive young big to make the salaries work. Many people seem to forget how good Rip was before Chauncey was traded; a change in scenery could bring out the best in him. But most importantly, Rip is from Pennsylvania and that fan base is just about none-existent right now. That would be a way to improve the team and also sell some tickets.
by bearded thundar on May 23, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, as not a fan of either team
I can’t see Philly doing that. If they move the 2, it will probably be to get out from Brand’s contract. Just replacing it with another long term, overpriced deal for a player on the downside of his career just isn’t enough value.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 23, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, thanks
I want to believe in the dude because I like Kevin Love and Kahn is nothing if not ballsy. I will say this though, if Cousins gets drafted to you guys and Jefferson gets traded, I made the first “Cousins-Love frontcourt” incest joke. And it was here that it was made! My contribution to basketball society, burned into the internet.
The hubris thing reminds me of some other GM whose name I can’t recall at the moment… played with that Detroit Pistons team in the eighties………… AHA! Fennis Dembo, that was his name!
by Biz Markie Moon on May 23, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
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