Trade with MN for PG?
by gill0137 on May 5, 2010 1:25 PM EDT
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I have an obsession - and it is getting Al Jefferson off the Timberwolves, and you guys are talking about a new PG. I'm proposing this trade here and over at Canis Hoopus for the fans to consider. Vote in the poll to let me know what you think of this trade for the Pistons.
(Salaries are for next season but I had to use this year's salaries in ESPN's trade machine to make sure the salaries work. Contract length represents years signed beyond this one - so 1/year means signed through next season.)
To Detroit:
PF/C Al Jefferson $13M 3/years
SF Ryan Gomes $4.2M 3/years (also has team option this year, so could be cut immediately for salary cap savings)
PG Jonny Flynn $3.2M 3/years
To Minnesota:
SF Tayshaun Prince $11.1M 1/year
PF Charlie Villanueva $7.0M 4/years
2010 1st Round Pick (~$3M)
Quick analysis - Detroit sheds $21M in salary while adding $16.2M (or $20.4 if Gomes is kept) - so Detroit saves $1M or $5M. On the talent side, AlJeff replaces CV and Flynn provides potential PG future. Gomes is properly priced in my opinion, but may be a better fit elsewhere - but could split minutes with Daye at SF if need be.
Minnesota picks up another lottery pick, takes on CV's albatross contract with no role for him (buried on depth chart behind Love and Pekovic), clears up Minny's PF and team leader glut by removing AlJeff, and get a good expiring player at a need position in Prince at SF.
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No thanks to Flynn
Give me Sessions in a heartbeat. I’ll have more on that in an article this weekend.
"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"
by Mike Payne on May 5, 2010 3:40 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Also
My version from January. Note that Kwame isn’t on the roster anymore, but Wilcox works and is expiring:
http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2010/1/8/1242018/jefferson-on-the-block
"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"
So the Wolves trade Al Jefferson and Sessions for Stuckey + Expirings. I don’t think this gets done unless the Pistons lottery pick is included.
Stuckey, still on his rookie deal and only 23, is our best trade asset. Prince’s expiring may be a more attractive contract, but Stuckey has not yet peaked with plenty of room to grow. I’d be comfortable throwing Daye or Jerebko in if it would make the deal happen.
Furthermore, I don’t think anyone sees Tayshaun as just an expiring. For a team in the Wolves who desperately need a veteran glue guy and help on the perimeter, Tayshaun is a lot more than an expiring. Depending on how they draft, I see a Prince and Stuckey deal for Jefferson + contract a pretty solid opportunity. Since they’ll be getting a starter quality combo guard, Sessions isn’t necessary for them.
If Minny drafts Turner, the deal won’t happen. If they draft Cousins or any other big, something like this will happen, with Detroit or not.
"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"
The Bulls would be your big competition
I would much rather have Deng + Gibson for Jefferson than Jefferson + Sessions for Prince + Stuckey. Deng is more than a one year rental and Gibson is cheaper for longer than Stuckey. Prince gives the Wolves cap space, but Free Agents don’t sign in Minnesota.
That’s where Prince’s expiring will be more valuable than Deng, who is going to be overpaid for a while— $14M in 2014 is a lot of money for a long time for an injury risk.
Prince gives them more flexibility than Deng and Stuckey solves more of a need for Minny. Gibson is nice, but MIN has too many PFs.
"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"
To a team that’s over the luxury tax threshold or a team over the cap, Prince’s expiring contract would be very valuable. The Wolves are neither. They could absorb Deng’s contract and still be over $10 Million under the Salary Cap. I would prefer Deng and having only $10 Million in cap space than having Stuckey and $20+ Million in cap space after the 2010-11 season. I don’t think you understand how useless cap space is to a team like Minnesota. Free Agents don’t sign in Minnesota and this will be especially true now that 10+ teams are significantly under the cap giving Free Agents more options.
Ew...
If Stuckey is your best trade asset, you’re in for a rough few years. For all the crap we give Flynn in MN for his style of play, Stuckey would be just as bad, but he can’t even blame it on being a rookie.
Basically, the only reason Wolves fans look to the Pistons to take on Jefferson is a) We want one more high pick to package to hopefully get into the top 4 again (unlikely, but there are a few guys we are targeting around 7-9 as well) and b) Jefferson fits a need in Detroit. So what it comes down to is this: No pick, no deal. Unfortunately for Detroit fans, it’s probably the same case, but reversed.
There’s just absolutely no way MN can give up Al Jefferson for expiring contracts, especially when we are trading Sessions for Stuckey, when hopefully Kahn would much much rather have Sessions in the first place. I know you think Prince is more than an expiring… but that’s just not true for the Wolves. Best case scenario he turns out to be an ok mentor and might even win us a couple more games (doubtful). Worst case scenario he doesn’t want to play for MN and we buy his contract out… ouch. Wilcox and Stuckey for Jefferson and Sessions? Ew…
That's not true
I don’t know why people think Stuckey is a useless player. So he’s not a starting point guard, big deal, he’s proven this year that he belongs in this league. He was the only Piston to play through all his injuries, and when everyone else went down, he took over for brief stretches.
Stuckey has a lot of potential to be a star 6th man. Just give him the ball and get the hell out of the way, let him run like crazy. He’s got good court vision, I think he just gets bored with purely setting up people. Now with that being said, Joe already signed Gordon to a rediculous deal and extended Rip, so the chances of Stuckey getting that role is slim. However that does not mean he is not a valuable asset, he just doesn’t fit in with our mix of things. Had Joe gotten Boozer with Gordon’s money, we would be a much different position right (especially since Boozer could teach Stuckey about the pick and roll).
by bearded thundar on May 6, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Stuckey is seen as a....not good player
because he isn’t. He is extremely inefficient for a score-first “PG” and he doesn’t sport that good of passing numbers. This is the reason most people don’t like Flynn in the Triangle offense because he stops the ball and needs to dribble until he finds something he likes. It’s awful to watch and Stuckey would only be worse (Flynn is more efficient as a rookie…). The Triangle is clearly hurting our PGs’ ability to rack up assists (look at Sessions’ drop between this year and previous years) and they are still both as good as Stuckey. Just imagine an already bad passer in a system where PGs don’t get many opportunities, Stuckey would probably average 3apg… yuck.
Even if Stuckey is a star sixth man a) MN doesn’t need any more of those b) I can think of plenty of 6th men I would rather have c) I don’t think we are looking to trade Al Jefferson for two expiring contracts and a 6th man (at best)…. this is just an awful trade from anything but a Detroit perspective… and I have thought of some really crappy deals from a MN perspective to try to get Jefferson out of MN (Not that I don’t like him, I enjoyed having him here before this year, but because he is clearly in the wrong system, is extremely redundant with Love, and he is paid a lot more than Love).
Flynn more efficient?
Uhhhhh not so much.
Based on per 36 stats, Flynn sports a poorer Assist to Turnover Ratio (1.53 for Flynn to Stuckey’s 2.17), averages only half an assist more, lower steal average, lower block average, significantly lower rebounding average, and scores less per 36 as well.
The only thing that Flynn does significantly more efficiently is shoot 3s and 3 point shooting isn’t even a part of Stuckey’s game at this point (Flynn’s FG% is 41.7% to Stuckey’s 40.5%). Sure he shot a few this season but its not like he’s trying to work it in yet.
But thats just the numbers. What about team situation? Flynn has not one but TWO dominant bigs that he can dump the ball into whenever he wants. Stuckey? Well Stuckey doesn’t have any dominant bigs. Oh and Stuckey also had to carry more of the scoring load this season than he likely would have wanted to…but since the three most consistent shooters missed a combined 89 games this season (Gordon/Rip/Prince), Stuckey was forced to do more with the ball than I think Kuester or any of us fans would have liked. Give him the opportunity to establish consistency with any 2 of those 3 guys and Stuckey’s assist number would have been higher, his scoring efficiency better, and his overall PER improved as a result.
Sure Flynn is on a pretty terrible team (no offense to Minny…but Pistons fans can relate seeing as we probably should have been the 3rd worst team in this league and only the Benaissance saved us…and Minnesota is probably the team I want to see succeed the most in the Western Conference), but he at the very least had two consistent bigs that he could dump the ball into…although I won’t claim to know how the triangle offense impacts a PGs ability to dish the ball.
So in short, I disagree with you completely with regards to Flynn vs. Stuckey this year. And to conclude, Stuckey’s PER was 15.6 this year. Flynn’s was 13.0. Even if you compared Stuckey’s ROOKIE PER which would technically be unfair to both since Stuckey missed his first 25 games, Flynn still didn’t sport as high of a PER (Stuckey’s rookie year he posted a 13.8, 14.8 in his second seasons, and now a 15.6…thats odd…for a guy we want to jettison somewhere else…he seems to be making an interesting trend here).
So do I think you’re undervaluing Stuckey? Yes.
Do I think you’re also undervaluing Prince? Yes. (He’s the only “role player” that was on the Gold Medal team and surprise, just accepted the same role on the National team this off-season…and if he’d had a more prominent role on the Pistons would have easily been a 15/6/5 type guy)
All that said, I simply don’t want Al Jefferson anymore. I had a boner for the guy most of the season and then I watched the T’Wolves/Pistons game and watched my team (one of the worst in the league at interior scoring) destroy Minny’s interior defense and thought to myself, “Self, Al Jefferson sucks at playing interior help defense…boo this man”. So from that perspective, this trade doesn’t work for me from the get-go.
And lastly, I’ll just say I definitely appreciate your opinion and analysis. I hope you don’t take my post as being harsh but more so as being passionate about my team…and props to Gill for linking up the two teams. Its nice to see the thought process of big fans from teams that us Pistons fans have been mulling over trades with since well…day 1 of last season :-(
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on May 7, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Little busy with finals
sorry for the late reply. But I meant more efficient as in he scores more efficiently. I didn’t mean production. TS% and eFG% are 3% and 5% in favor of Flynn in his rookie year over Stuckey’s third year. I’m not saying Flynn is a better player (yet), but I think he will easily be the better of the two within a couple years… and out of the Triangle.
Most of your arguments about Stuckey are the same with Flynn…which is another reason Stuckey is a terrible fit for us and we don’t want him in the slightest. Inconsistency (the lineups Wolves fans saw this year were…. strange), too big of a role for a rookie (with a completely new system, new level of competition, and new teammates), and no shooters to dump the ball to (Brewer was his only option…. yuck).
Dominant bigs? Wow you are a Pistons fan :-p I kid! But Jefferson, while a great scorer and nearly impossible to stop consistently, is pretty inefficient for his size and he really isn’t a great manufacturer of assists for his guards. He posts guys up and backs them down more than anything. Not going to lead to an assist. Also he was coming off of a pretty significant injury this year. Love on the other hand, a decent guy for providing assists but doesn’t a) take as many shots b) also posts up a bit, mostly to improve that aspect of his game.
Jefferson and Love would both be great players in a system with a defensive C and an athletic PF. It’s something that we have been talking about forever now, but we just haven’t been able to get that. They both have the same strengths and weaknesses and it’s really starting to turn into a giant team weakness. Jefferson has noticeably improved his defense, but you are right, it still sucks. If he was surrounded by those two things I mentioned though, this would be hidden considerably. Still, not good though. You’re right.
As for Prince, he’s a good player, but I can say pretty confidently that he wouldn’t be around MN for very long, the remainder of the season at most. I’d guess he’d be gone by the trade deadline though if not bought out. Theoretically he is a nice player, realistically (for the Wolves) not so much.
Didn’t sound too harsh at all. I enjoy the impassioned debate and feel the exact same about my team!
Nice rebuttal
The one thing about Prince that would be in Minny’s favor is Bill Laimbeer and Prince’s concept of loyalty. If Minnesota improved enough to at the least be competitive, I could see Prince being happy in a place like Minnesota. Of course, I think he’d eventually head to a team where he could contend for another championship but not until later in his career.
And I’ll take your word on Al Jeff and Kevin Love but either one of them is better than any of our bigs were on offense this year regardless of whether they were efficient, their production was definitely more meaningful.
I’ll definitely be interested to see what happens come next Tuesday and how that plays out for you guys and us. Of course, now that Rubio has won his euroleague championship, I think we’d be happy to take him off your hands for Stuckey :-) Fair deal? hahaha…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Even if Stuckey is a valuable 6th man ..
Does a team give up a dominant low post scorer and top rebounder, trading a #2 option, to improve the bench?
On RealGM.com, most DET posters are comfortable with Prince + pick for Jefferson.
I think with time Greg Monroe could possibly be more affective than Jefferson. But who knows.
Practice safe sex. Go fuck yourself !
I don't get it with Monroe
Everyone here seems to hate him, and yet the Pistons seem to love him. I don’t know how accurate Keith’s blogs are in terms of representing Dumars’ thought process, but he continuously praises Monroe. He’s even had the audacity to say Monroe’s just as good as Cousins.
Now I know the Pistons seem to have some special fetish for Georgetown players, but seriously? No one in this draft is close to Cousins in terms of sheer physical presence.
by bearded thundar on May 20, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
over the last few years,
whatever Keith says, Dumars does. He hyped up Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva before the signing. Talked up Daye before we drafted him. He’s the official mouthpiece, and sadly, his bad opinions reflect those of Jod.
"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"
I've wondered for a while
if Jod gives him some inside info from time to time.
by Rob Rogacki on May 21, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Er - +1 to Ew...
Not the That’s not true. No way Minny deals AlJeff to Det unless the pick comes back. No need for Stuckey in MN.
BITE YOUR MOTHERFUCKING TONGUE
Jerebko is untouchable. The day we trade Jerebko, I’m no longer a Pistons fan. In fact, I’m not even a Piston fan. I’m the first ever Detroit Jerebko fan. I’ll be like the AI followers only worse.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
YOUR MOTHERFUCKING TONGUE SECONDED
The player that’s untouchable like Elliot Ness
"Someday pray that he will grow a farm barn full, Recent research shows its not so darn harmful"
by Skylar on May 7, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Eh, I'd take Elliot Ness over Jonas.
But I’m more into hunting mobsters maybe.
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.
by sauce1977 on May 7, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd for mobster hunteration
but the boy is a gift
In jerebko I trusts
"Someday pray that he will grow a farm barn full, Recent research shows its not so darn harmful"
LaMarcus Falldridge
"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"
by Mike Payne on May 8, 2010 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
that's a goddamn wreck
"Someday pray that he will grow a farm barn full, Recent research shows its not so darn harmful"
I'd do it.
Gets rid of Villanueva & Prince
Jefferson doesn’t play great defense either though
"Someday pray that he will grow a farm barn full, Recent research shows its not so darn harmful"
Jefferson was just a couple of years ago the center piece in a KG trade w/1st rounders. An injury isn’t diminishing Minny’s investment in him. I think they’d hold out for 1st rounder(s), expiring and a talent (not cv or his contract).
The injuries may not have significantly diminished Minny’s investment in Jefferson, but Kevin Love certainly did. My take on any trade with Minnesota is whichever of their bigs they move — Love or Jefferson — are worth the type of packages we’ve been talking about. If the Wolves pick Cousins or another center, watch them be even more willing to listen to offers like these.
"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"
Get back to me with how many 20-24 year old Big Men on the trading block and I think you’ll realize these both these guys are worth more than expirings plus a flier on Stuckey. This is even more true for a guy like Love who is cheap for another 3 years on top of his production.
Again
Prince is worth a hell of a lot more than just an “expiring”, especially when it fills a huge need for a team like Minny.
"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"
Prince is worth more than an “expiring” to a team that plans on contending next year. I’m sorry, but Prince improving the wolves from 15 wins to 25 wins for one season and then bolting in free agency doesn’t exactly help the long term future of the Timberwolves. This would essentially be a Salary dump + Stuckey, not interested, and I can’t see Kahn being interested, but I guess you never know.
No way ANY team in the league takes Charlie after last season. If he rebounds this season, sure. But not otherwise.
Personally, I think the Wolves are intent on making Flynn and Love their building blocks. Sessions and Jefferson are expendable. Those are the two we could get.
Sessions, Jefferson, and maybe their second rounder or something for Tayshaun, Stuckey, and the Wilcox contract.
Minnesota has a few more years of rebuilding ahead of them. They get Tayshaun and use the, likely, second overall pick to draft Turner. Tayshaun can mentor Turner for a season and help them out at the 3 until they can draft one in the top 5 next draft. They can either resign Tayshaun or let him go at that point. Stuckey would slot in as the backup point guard and shooting guard. He’s cheap and still has pretty good potential, not to mention he has seen some damn good minutes for such a young player.
We get a starting Power Forward and Point Guard and use our 5th-10th overall pick to draft, hopefully, Aldrich and make him our Center of the future. Seems like a good trade for both teams to me.
It would make a lot of sense to build around Love in the frontcourt, but if that’s actually Minny’s plan, why did they jerk him around so much at the end of last season?
Not meant to be a rhetorical, jerk question but an honest one. The way they handled him last season was bizarre, because I too had assumed he was part of their long-term plans.
not sure myself
I myself would much rather have Love than Jefferson. Love is one of the most intelligent rebounders in the league, like Ben he just knows where to be. He could be the perfected version of Rasheed on offense, without the defense (as I understand it, he’s not athletic enough, or Minny would be considering a trade in the first place). Besides Love will always be undervalued while Jefferson overvalued with the way the CBA is setup and because of the star factor.
My only guess is that they benched Love because Jefferson had seniority and made more money; I don’t think it had anything to do with ability.
by bearded thundar on May 6, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Or perhaps they were trying to showcase Big Al and hide Love? Who knows? This is Minny we’re talking about.
This was the reason, I think. That and they wanted to ensure they didn’t win and were able to get Turner.
by Apocalyptic0n3 on May 6, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
No way Minnesota will trade Jefferson and Flynn...
….Besides id rather have Sessions who is a better player and point guard….why would Minesota make this trade in the first place?…Sometimes I wonder why people post these crazy trades on here…..Plus if the pick is in the top 3 wed be trading away a possible star…Dont like it.
key word is possible
I agree that a lot of the trades have gotten rediculous, but that top 3 pick (which its more likely we get that 8th pick) could give us a good player, it could give us nothing. No one in this draft looks like a surefire superstar. John Wall has the athleticism, but he doesn’t have much in the way of point guard skills. Turner has all the skill and knowledge, but is only an average athlete not to mention doesn’t have much range. Cousins could be a dominant low post scorer, or he could be nothing due to his lack of being able to jump when facing NBA bigs (especially guys like Perkins with similar strength).
If you get a chance at Love+Sessions and they want our pick, JJ and Stuckey, I say do it without thinking (that’s a steal of an offer there, you’d be outbid in seconds if other teams got the same deal). Jefferson, I would hesitate and lean towards no due to the injury history.
by bearded thundar on May 6, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
No one in this draft looks like a surefire superstar?
That’s some rough criticism, bt. Esp. after some of your draft previews. I’d say that turner’s range won’t hold him back (how about that dagger against um?), and both wall and cousins are as close as you can get to surefire when evaluating 19 year olds. I’d add wesley and favors to the list too. I think 1-5 could land you a potential all star, which is as good as anyone can ask for in an amateur draft.
by C$ on May 6, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
B-Easy
Was probably the greatest PF prospect we had seen since Tim Duncan. His college numbers are better than Durant’s in just about every category but 3s, fts and steals. Amare doesn’t count because he didn’t go to college. My sole point is that there are no guarantees with any player, regardless of how talented they might. There never is a surefire superstar, even LeBron had question coming into the league. It’s up to the player to prove their worth, which a lot of them do within their first 5 years (bigs take a bit longer to mature).
Also I don’t think that’s rough criticism, that’s just being honest. Yes I do think Cousins is by far the best prospect for the Pistons, but does that mean he’ll be a superstar? Sadly, no one can know that until he’s played for at least 3 years (too many players are deemed stars prematurely, ie Stuckey – I’m a big fan but he simply hasn’t panned out to his potential). As for Turner, I think his best asset is his x-factor. Kobe had it, Wade has it, LeBron is still looking for it, and it looks like Turner has it. Those are the kinds of plays that bring you to greatness. He finished the season shooting 36% from 3, which is okay for a SG, but was shooting sub 30% for quite a while. As a reference the majority of the 40% nba 3 shooters shoot at least 40% consistently in college.
Regarding Wesley and Favors, Favors was a disappointment. He’s still a good prospect, but there’s a strong chance he falls out of the top 3, possibly even top 5. It might be smart to trade up in this draft. My only problem with him is the lack of true skill, he’s an athlete right now, he’ll become a basketball player in a few years. Wesley is also a good prospect, but not a superstar. I’d be shocked if he ends up better than Grainger, who is a star, but not superstar.
by bearded thundar on May 6, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Turner will be a legitimate star, probably AllStar. Wall will be overhyped and overrated, but will surely be considered a star. There are several bigs, like Cousins and Aldrich, who will be very solid, productive big men, and many of them won’t get the credit they deserve. Just epinion.
Dont forget about....
…Kenneth Feried (sp) from Morehead St….This guy will be the steal of the draft for sure.
by BennieBladesFan on May 6, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
There are plenty of reasons to stay away from Jefferson
but I don’t really think injury history is one of them.
He missed early in his career because he had bone spurs in his ankle. He sat out a while because of those and then sat out again when he got surgery to have them removed. They haven’t been a problem since.
He had an appendectomy… I’m no doctor, but I don’t think that will be a recurring issue.
Apart from that it was really just the issue with his knee that he had last season… but he seems to be recovering from that nicely. He just doesn’t really play a jump through the ceiling, high impact game, that usually contributes to worse and more recurring injuries.
How many nuts we gone bust, god
ONE
"Someday pray that he will grow a farm barn full, Recent research shows its not so darn harmful"
who dat?
captain kirk?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk44L0XnqZE
"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"
Ghostface time?
Ooh, Rev ain’t right, church ain’t right, deacon is a pimp, tell by his eyes.
Also, MF Doom. Madvillian = top ten album in my book. And I used to be be an all rock and roll guy. And the good stuff on Operation Doomsday = some of the best rap songs ever. Gas Drawls, Dead Bent, Hey!, Doomsday, all classics.
Do do do do do, that’s an off topic daily double. Posters should just fall off to save me the trouble.
by Biz Markie Moon on May 9, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
wrecked
“not by the face, but by the name they knew him.
racist against rappers they all look the same to ’im.”
Biz, if you haven’t checked out Doom’s two albums as Viktor Vaughn or his King Geedorah album (note my signature), you must hit it. The man has more pseudonyms than an untreated schizo. Which he might just be…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN-mu5tSyxE
and if you want to see the man before the mask, before his brother was killed and he turned dark, peep the first mc, the fellow in the fluo red sweatshirt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW17mVZqnjI
and on his darkest level (as Viktor Vaughn), he’s worked on some of the most inventive instrumentals i’ve heard. in this one, the ending sample has the producer literally lifting the needle off the turntable and dropping it back down in rhythm, so damned glitchy/creative it hurts. It starts dark, and there are three beats in one on this one— so fucking crazy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6ErorSuX7I
"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"
Hey! That guy is wearing a Rip Hamilton mask!
by garrettelliott on May 9, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Doom and his many faces
I’ve never really listened to Viktor Vaughn or King Geedorah, but I’ll have to check them out. Doom’s quite the prolific guy, and I don’t think I’ve heard a beat he doesn’t abuse and dip in lemon juice. I also like his beats (they are a little samey though, but hey, they work) a lot.
The other thing I like about Doom is how big of a geek he is. Geedorah’s a monster from Godzilla, Viktor Vaughn is Dr. Doom’s real name, he collaborated on an album about Adult Swim with a guy named after a British kid’s cartoon, and the list goes on. He’s an anecdote to a lot of the really shitty mainstream rap, and that’s one of the things that makes him an anecdote.
by Biz Markie Moon on May 9, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, one more thing
A lot of you guys know your rap shit more than me, so can somebody explain why Lil Wayne is considered so good? I’m not hearing it but I’m not ruling out the fact he might be great.
by Biz Markie Moon on May 9, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Kool Keith's Hands-On Experience (Danger Mouse Mix)
is my shit. Dangermouse was an incredible producer before he burned out on hip hop or whatever happened to his flaky ass.
"Someday pray that he will grow a farm barn full, Recent research shows its not so darn harmful"
Kool Keith
I haven’t listened to him much but the AV Club interview with him is BIZARRE.
by Biz Markie Moon on May 9, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
He sucks and sounds like retard
My style when I'm manic is straight automatic , Pistons fanatic, love to ball so I'm at it! My style when depressed is readdressing the regress , while everyone today is steady praying for some recess !
lil wayne ^
My style when I'm manic is straight automatic , Pistons fanatic, love to ball so I'm at it! My style when depressed is readdressing the regress , while everyone today is steady praying for some recess !
Real Detroit Hip Hop!
http://vimeo.com/2245362 . Check out my boys ’’Dubphonics’’ If you like real Detroit Hip Hop. And you can catch me break dancing during the video. Let me know what you guys think.
My style when I'm manic is straight automatic , Pistons fanatic, love to ball so I'm at it! My style when depressed is readdressing the regress , while everyone today is steady praying for some recess !
for a minute there det i thought you were talking about kool keith. i agree that weezy sucks. dude is mad over rated.
So my suspicions were correct.
Now I need to figure out if this Lady Gaga character is really the BEST SINGAR EVER1!!!
Or then again, I could quit taking musical opinions of teen girls seriosly. Eh, that can’t be the problem at all.
by Biz Markie Moon on May 9, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Weezy can go in
But I’m unsure exactly why he caught on like he did. Some people have bad taste in music.
"Someday pray that he will grow a farm barn full, Recent research shows its not so darn harmful"
No luv?
That sucks. No support for the local talent I guess. oh well this is a basketball site after all so I guess I shouldn’t be too dissapointed.
My style when I'm manic is straight automatic , Pistons fanatic, love to ball so I'm at it! My style when depressed is readdressing the regress , while everyone today is steady praying for some recess !
Well, I support plenty of local talent.
Just not feeling the track or video. I’ll keep them in mind though.
"Someday pray that he will grow a farm barn full, Recent research shows its not so darn harmful"
That's cool.
It’s different kind of rap. At least you checked it out and that is support enough for me.
My style when I'm manic is straight automatic , Pistons fanatic, love to ball so I'm at it! My style when depressed is readdressing the regress , while everyone today is steady praying for some recess !
instrumental is nice
but the personalities are a bit weak. the hook is immemorable, not catchy enough to sing along. good hip hop tracks have either a clear, concise message, a hook or a few lines that are infectiously embedded into the mind of the listener, or are flush with personality. like i said i dig the instrumental, but the rest just seems forgettable.
respect for fellas from Detroit putting in work, and respect to you for sharing it.
"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"
I agree MP
That’s the same kind of stuff I try to tell them. Thanks for checking it out. They have better songs than that. I don’t know why they made a video for that one. It’s not even close to my favorite track. The white guy ‘’Jerome/ SubVerse’’ has mad freestyle and battle skillz and a very well respected rapper in the Detroit hip hop community.
My style when I'm manic is straight automatic , Pistons fanatic, love to ball so I'm at it! My style when depressed is readdressing the regress , while everyone today is steady praying for some recess !
Seems like the hairs we’re splitting are basically differences between great/superstar type accolades. Weed-sley is a good example of good college stats going to waste in the nba, but saying he’s the best pf prospect since Timmy is kinda over board (and i think Griffen probably takes that claim now), considering Rose was drafted ahead of him and Riles was actively looking to move that pick . I guess my point is that there’s rarely a “sure fire superstar” in any draft. The closest I can think of were Lbj, Td and shaq. Otherwise the list of #1’s (who should be the closest to being considered “sure fire superstars”) is pretty fucking spotty at best.
CV, Gordon, and Stuckey
all need to be dealt for draft picks don’t care what the pick is get rid of them asap, a trade is out of the question. We need all the cap room we can get, Wade, James, Bosh, Nowitzki, Ming, Stoudemire and Boozer are all going to want to get paid as well as have a chance for a ring in the next couple of years.
maybe if we trade everyone
we can get ALL those guys
"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"
YEAH right
Like that WILL ever happen. First of ALL, we’d never have the cap SPACE for all those playERS. Second OF all, my random CAPitalization trumps any reBUTTal you may be planning.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
O we wouldnt have enough cap space to sign all of them
well maybe there goal should be one of the fellas listed above concidering they still have Prince, Jerebko, Bynum, Rip and Wallace
Of the guys you mentioned...
none of them would sign in Detroit with just the above players you mention…especially not over Chicago, Miami, New York, Cleveland, or their existing locations…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Well it was worth a shot...
Gordon need to go along w CV, i’d like to see Gordon go he would produce more cap space and i really like Stuckey the reason i had to throw him under the bus is b/c everyone was throwing Prince’s name around.
meh
that proposal has nothing on my trade Kwame for Pau Gasol plan.
wait…
by bearded thundar on May 7, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I want no part of Johnny Flynn
He seriously might be the worst defender in the league, and he’s horribly inefficient. I suppose its hard to gauge anything about the T-Wolves with Rambis there fucking things up, but come on. He had a sub-100 O-Rating and a D-Rating 2 points lower than Jose Calderon’s. That’s just embarrassing.
As for Jefferson, who knows. He’s a significant injury risk, and he doesn’t pay much defense. That said, he’s a better offensive option than any of our current big men. As long as we’d play him at Forward (he’s not a center), I don’t think I’d have a problem with him.
With Flynn, this trade is an F for me. I hate that guy. If, like MP mentioned previously, you substituted Sessions (who Minny would be more willing to give up, actually), I’d say A-.
"Ford! You're turning into a Penguin! Stop it!"
-Arthur Dent
WTF?
Why is it that every time I try to reply to something it goes like 5 rows under what i’m trying to reply to. Very confusing for the readers.
My style when I'm manic is straight automatic , Pistons fanatic, love to ball so I'm at it! My style when depressed is readdressing the regress , while everyone today is steady praying for some recess !
hit "reply" on the exact comment you're trying to reply to
"Gee'drah write a rhyme in the time he hollow out a flask - crack a Guinness stout with his teeth one time, swallowed the glass"
But even then it can still end up a ways down...
Like if someone posts, then a bunch of people reply to it, and then reply to the replies, etc….and then you come along and reply to the original post, it lists it all the way at the bottom…ouline style:
Post
Reply #1
Reply to Reply #1
Reply to Reply #1
Reply #2
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on May 10, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Trade with Minney but get Rubio...
Start Rubio and Stuckey and bring Ben off the bench. Rubio will bring what they wanted from AI. A player that can create and bring flash.
NO.
Rubio can pass, but he’s a bad defender and he can’t shoot.
by Biz Markie Moon on May 13, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
But he's got such beautiful hair!
An alliterative name, and one that works well with the chants from Hook
“RUUUUUU BEEEE OHHHHHHHHHH RUUUUUU BEEEEE OHHHHHHHHHH”
BANGARANG!
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on May 13, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm all for it
signing Villanueva was a mistake from the beginning. It’s sad really, because he has the capability to be a superstar, he just honestly looks like he doesn’t really care how he does or how his team does. I’ve been an avid Prince supporter, but based on a comment he made during the season (I’m too lazy too look it up at the moment) he seems like he wants a change of scenery.
The question is if the T-Wolves would actually do this trade, and I highly doubt they would. They’re still in rebuilding mode, and therefore it doesn’t really make any sense to acquire an overpaid veteran like Prince and a underacheiver in Villy.
As a Pistons fan I would love this trade, but I just don’t see any logical reason why the T-Wolves would pull the trigger on it.
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