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Around SBN: Jeremy Lin Continues Rampage, New York Wins On Road

Hittin' the Links: Where DBB's Dreams -- Cousins, Collison, and/or Jack -- May Come True

10 days until draft time, so you know what that means, right? Rumors, rumors, and more rumors that will get speculated on -- to death.  

  • We'll get started with the Hornets possibly making Darren Collison available (via don'tworryaboutit in the FanShots):
  • Rival executives will continue to try to convince the Hornets to make Chris Paul available in trades, pointing to the fact that Williams can simply slide the promising Darren Collison and his modest $1.4 million salary into that spot. When those teams get shot down, look for the Hornets -- based on the hints we've received from more than one exec -- to make Collison available as long as the interested party is willing to take back the cap-clogging contract of Emeka Okafor, James Posey or Peja Stojakovic with Paul's backup.
    Of course, this has been broken down in depth here on DBB. Some DBB'ers may or may not wet their pants if Dumars is somehow able to pull off a trade for Collison (and Okafor). I can't say I wouldn't, but I'd also like to be on Team Stuckey for another year. I don't know if Dumars could execute a deal like this without including Stuckey, though.

  • DraftExpress was lighting up the Twitter feed yesterday with interesting stuff. Quick Darshan FanShot'd about the most relevant, regarding the availability of DeMarcus Cousins and Draft Express' rumor that something big could go down today or tomorrow. I'll be on the lookout for more on that today. Meanwhile, there's good discussion already going on within the comments of QD's link.
  • Brgulker broke it down, and now Jarret Jack might be available for the trading (via - PS - in the FanShots): 
  • The Raptors are not just sitting around. Rather, Colangelo is shopping Hedo Turkoglu, Jose Calderon and Jarrett Jack with an eye toward making trades before July 1. The same source told me that a Turkoglu trade was already in the works and could happen by the draft. While the source was confident something would happen, the source didn't disclose the potential destination(s). The Calderon and Jack discussions are moving more slowly, but over the past few days the Raptors have been pressing forward on those fronts as well.
    More after the jump.

Star-divide

  • Dan Feldman of PistonPowered did some great research and discovered that maybe we should be giving Charlie Villanueva the benefit of the doubt about his off-season conditioning. 
  • The Detroit Free Press says Greg Monroe in the post would help more Pistons' jump shots fall. Yeah, so would any type of post presence.
  • Keith Langlois breaks down DeMarcus Cousins in his latest draft preview. 
  • Cousins apparently killed it in the Kings workout, hitting 78% of his shots. They think Favors is the more talented big man, but that Cousins is further along. The two will go one-on-one in New Jersey on June 21.
  • You know that new movie Grown Ups, that comes out June 25? Adam Sandler said during an NBA Finals commercial their 'team' is most like the 2004 Pistons. Sold.
  • Tom Izzo Watch: SB Nation Detroit has the latest major updates and the DetNewsMSU twitter will let you know if he scratches his butt. "Scratch twice if you're going to Cleveland, Tom!" says the onlooking media. "Give us a sign!"
  • Comment 61 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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    I would give up my entire weight set

    If we somehow get both Cousins and Collison, and I’ve got at least $750 in exercise equipment

    by bearded thundar on Jun 14, 2010 10:53 AM EDT reply actions  

    I'm not married yet

    otherwise I would have offered the same

    by bearded thundar on Jun 14, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

    Can I have it?

    Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

    by The Boourns on Jun 14, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

    tell you what, if MP doesn’t give it to you, I’ll gladly give you my left nipple. It’s not like I’ll ever need that anyways

    by bearded thundar on Jun 14, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

    That'd be nice,

    I could finally honestly state that I have an even number of nipples.

    Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

    by The Boourns on Jun 14, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

    12

    Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

    by The Boourns on Jun 14, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I can’t get to the Trade Machine, but just looking at NO’s salaries….

    Peja has a 10% trade kicker, and he’ll be expiring end of next season. So, even though he’s expiring, that kicker will make any trade partner think twice. And because it’s expiring, I’m not sure they’d want to trade it.

    I’d think they want out of Mo Pete (but again, he’s expiring), Posey, and possibly Okafor.

    I have a hard time envisioning a scenario that doesn’t involve our #7 and Prince, obviously our two best chips. If they are looking for luxury tax relief, I don’t think we can help them much. But, if they are looking for a reset button, (I think) we could move Prince, Wilcox, and the #7 for some combination of DC, Okafor and filler.

    That’s quite a lot to give up, and combining Okafor, Rip, BG, and CV’s contracts in 2013 gives me a migraine.

    by brgulker on Jun 14, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Agree

    If they want relief for 10/11, then we can’t help them too much. They’d probably look at some of the cap space teams first.

    Okafor and Collison’s contracts are a little less than $13 mil combined. That means if we include any contract with Tay, they’d be actually taking on salary. So, we’d have to take maybe Mo Pete too. If we traded Tay, Wilcox, and a sign-and-traded Bynum for DC, Okafor, and Pete, they’d save a little money in 10/11. They might go for that, since they would need a back up PG and Wilcox could potential be slightly better than useless playing with Paul. No way would I throw the No. 7 pick in there too.

    My main problem with the whole idea is I can’t see NO trading Okafor without getting a useful big in return. The only conceivable way would be if they thought they could get one with their No. 11 pick. Who are they going to start at center?

    If that happened, Rip would have to go very soon. Good luck trading Rip without taking on another inflated contract, though.

    by waulie on Jun 14, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

    guys no one can give them instant cap relief

    unless they are way under the cap, and the only team that would likely take on a contract and avoid free agency would be Minnesota. No one (reasonable) on the Hornets would really interest them, as they are loaded with point guards and bigs, but need young athletic wings. Thornton would be the only guy who would qualify, but that would only make NO worse to trade him at his current deal.

    Saving money all of Okafor’s contract is far more important than saving a few million right now, and they would be foolish to give away Okafor in a straight salary dump to a team under the cap as they would just create a massive hole for themselves.

    The Hornets’ best option still is to trade DC and Okafor together in exchange for expirings and young talent (preferably a center, but does not have to be).

    by bearded thundar on Jun 14, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

    That's strange

    If Collison is the next great PG, why is it hard to imagine a team taking a contract to get him? There are way more (I think like 11) teams with significant cap space then there are significant free agents. Most free agents aren’t going anywhere. Why wouldn’t a team use part of it’s cap space for a serviceable (if overpaid) center and potentially the next great young point guard?

    This trade could happen anytime this summer, even after free agency has mostly been determined. That’s why I said NO would likely look to teams with cap space first. It could save them a ton of money both this year and in the future. The Pistons can’t offer them that.

    by waulie on Jun 14, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

    because Minnesota has tons of money invested in point guards and centers

    And just about all the other teams are considered “good” free agent destinations.

    Only after someone misses on offseason bonanza will they consider taking on salary dumps to get a good player. By that time the Hornets should have already signed off the deal (assuming they actually do intend to trade the two)

    by bearded thundar on Jun 14, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

    What I’m saying is why wouldn’t NO wait until most cap space teams miss out on signings and start looking at trades? What is their rush to take the first deal that comes along?

    by waulie on Jun 14, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Darren Collison deal souds good

    Emeka is overpaid, but he is still a very solid big man (at least tons better than what we have now), and hes only 28. Getting him along with Collison would be awesome.

    What would we have to give up? Stuckey and future first rounder? or maybe the 7th pick?

    The beginning of the end of the misery

    by Latif Masud on Jun 14, 2010 11:29 AM EDT reply actions  

    Plus he went to UCONN

    So he’s destined to be a Piston, right?

    My two favorite teams are the Tigers and Brewers. Drunk tigers. That sounds about right.
    Me in 140 characters

    by ReichardZ on Jun 14, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

    I would start negotiations at Will Bynum (via sign and trade), Prince and any of the 3 2009 rookies. You never throw in all of your best trade chips at the start; the best tactic is always to throw in a bone (which would be cap relief and an exciting player in WB) and then work with the partner so that you hopefully don’t have to give in all your assets.

    Collison is better than Bynum at just about everything Will is good at except perhaps dunking over Tyson Chandler, plus they are both quite small. While DC has shown to be a good defensive player against point guards, there would be no way to cross guard.

    That is why keeping Stuckey would be much more useful, as with a few good 3 point shooters alongside him and a true passer at the 2, he could be a dominant slashing 2 guard that also racks up a few assists. Stuck has shown that he does have good court vision, I think he just doesn’t like the idea of purely setting up teammates (he’s said in interviews he’s always looking to score). If you play those two alongside each other, the tempo should massively increase (which also benefits Stuck) and I don’t think that getting 40 points and 15 assists out of our starting backcourt would be out of the question.

    by bearded thundar on Jun 14, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Agreed

    I wouldn’t take the trade if we had to give up Stuckey. But then again I’m still on Team Stuckey to and I wouldn’t like to see him get traded at all.

    by CookieCrisp on Jun 14, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

    If we're taking back Okafor in a trade,

    I hope its after we’ve failed at moving up for Cousins/Favors and explored all other trade possibilities.

    by Roll The Dyess on Jun 14, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

    More conjecture than rumor...

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-favorscousins061310

    “Sources say the Kings are also still open to trade possibilities, and Detroit and Utah are two teams eager to move up in the draft. The Pistons’ Tayshaun Prince(notes) could be intriguing to the Kings, who are eager to add a veteran small forward to the roster.”

    by Quick Darshan on Jun 14, 2010 2:41 PM EDT reply actions  

    If there's anything to that...

    I would think the Kings would make the Pistons take Nocioni who wants to be traded. I actually like Nocioni’s game, even though i know he’s hated here. The Kings have cap space so they could absorb the difference in the contracts.

    by Quick Darshan on Jun 14, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Yup, I'd also have to believe the Kings would make us take Nocioni.

    But if we’re giving up Tayshaun’s expiring veteran leadership, maybe we can also talk Landry.

    by Roll The Dyess on Jun 14, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Landry is un-restricted next summer.

    Uh, me, new?

    by Mike Payne on Jun 14, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

    This makes him slightly less desirable for a rebuilding team.

    by Roll The Dyess on Jun 14, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Nocioni

    I’m trying to figure out how he helps us. Is he a clear upgrade over CV and/or Max? I like his toughness, attitude, and the way he plays — really do.

    by brgulker on Jun 14, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Ugh, no. He is awful on defense and not good on offense. He’s very active on defense, but his activity is more spastic than successful.

    by Birdman84 on Jun 14, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I can live with that

    As long as the effort is there, then there is room for improvement. Just think of Rip, he had terrible defensive form before LB, but 05-06 he was considered one of the best SG in the league because of how well he played on both ends of the court

    by bearded thundar on Jun 14, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Nocioni’s gettin’ kinda old though. Tough to imagine him making any drastic leaps at this point.

    by brgulker on Jun 14, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I don’t know much about the guy at all to be honest, I am going purely off what I read here

    by bearded thundar on Jun 14, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

    He's only 1 year older than Tay

    And his career Defensive Rating is on par with Tay’s…although it was SIGNIFICANTLY better when he was playing for Chicago which makes me think he has to play in a system that enforces good team defense in order to be an effective defender.

    His TS% for his career is higher than Tay’s as well.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=nocioan01&y1=2010&p2=princta01&y2=2010

    Now specific to last year, his D Rating was slightly better than Tay’s while his offense was significantly worse. Oddly enough, he only shot 39.9% from the field last year despite shooting 38.6% from beyond the arc. Almost half of his shots per game were from beyond the arc. Sounds like the kind of guy that would fit in well with a drive first PG and SG…someone willing to just pull the trigger instead of those tiresome ball fakes that Tay often gives when passing up an open 3 from the corner.

    Actually, Nocioni looks to be a pretty solid back up SF…

    Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

    by The Boourns on Jun 14, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Actually, Nocioni looks to be a pretty solid back up SF

    Exactly, which makes me wonder why we’d want him, considering how many of those we already have.

    I didn’t watch him much in Sac, but in Chicago, he was a combo forward if I recall, playing significant minutes as a backup PF first, backup SF second.

    So, in sum, he’s a solid veteran player (I liked your analysis and agree) who’s on the books through 2012 guaranteed (T.O. after that). He’s probably best-suited as a backup forward at either spot, depending on matchups, due to his versatility. Problem is, we’ve already got JJ/Daye/Summers at that position and CV and Max as backup PFs. On the one hand, he’d be fighting with others for minutes — competition is good. OTOH, he’d be stealing minutes from young players, who as we all know need the chance to sink or swim.

    I don’t think I’m skewing that summary to suit my argument too much. I just don’t see how he fits us, in spite of being a solid player.

    by brgulker on Jun 14, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Agreed...

    I think he fits us only if taking Nocioni nets us Cousins as well.

    Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

    by The Boourns on Jun 14, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Exactly

    Nocioni helps the Pistons by getting the Pistons Demarcus Cousins.

    He’s owed a little under $14mil over 2 years (a team option for a 3rd). So, it’s not a dead weight of a contract. Itt’s probably tradeable.

    by Quick Darshan on Jun 14, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I saw this "rumor"

    But it isn’t really a rumor. There is no source for it, and I can’t imagine why the Kings would do it. Minnesota makes a lot more sense, since they would have a shot at Wesley Johnson at the 7, and the guy isn’t that special of a player.

    But the Kings could pair Evans and DeMarcus Cousins, giving them a shot at back to back ROYs. Why would they trade away the opportunity?

    by Kevin Sawyer on Jun 14, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I fixed the post to clarify that it wasn't your rumor

    It was Draft Express that said something big would go down today or tomorrow, but were sworn to secrecy (“argh” is what they then said). Thanks for posting all this man.

    Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
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    by Packey on Jun 14, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

    espn also commented on it

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2ffeatures%2frumors

    scroll about half way down.

    I hate this insider bullshit; half the articles they post are garbage and they fill their site with ads and yet they expect us to pay to read?

    by bearded thundar on Jun 14, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

    From Langlois' mailbag...

    Regarding Austin Daye’s workouts in Vegas:

    “He told me the other day that he’s packed on 5 pounds since the season ended and is working out three times a day.”

    by Quick Darshan on Jun 14, 2010 2:59 PM EDT reply actions  

    I gained 5 pounds today eating mcdonalds this morning then taco bell for lunch.

    Then lost it all back taking a dump just now. Let me know when he adds 15, then he’s getting somewhere.

    by Roll The Dyess on Jun 14, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

    the fat is still in your system

    that 5 pounds was primarily water.

    Gaining 5 pounds of muscle is impressive for someone who has been lifting for quite a while, but not for someone getting started. It is very easy to put on those first few pounds, 15 actually is not out of the question. It is when your body adjusts to your workload that it gets hard to add more mass

    by bearded thundar on Jun 14, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Our official athletic trainer has spoken.

    And no, that’s not any sort of mockery.

    Where in the world is Cheikh Samb?

    by Kriz on Jun 14, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

    for what it's worth

    my major is currently biomedical engineering and I am considering med school (few years down the road)

    by bearded thundar on Jun 14, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

    It’s funny how 15 pounds of muscle is always the magic amount that media reports. Lang Whitaker at SLAM does MuscleWatch! every off-season and shows all of the quotes from coaches, trainers, players, etc where they ALL say, “Working out so much… gained 15 pounds of muscle….” It’s always 15!

    by garrettelliott on Jun 14, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

    If he's put on 5 lbs in the past 6 weeks,

    then he could still put on another 10 before the first game…maybe even another 12 if he gets suspended for said game for fighting in the pre-season like last year.

    Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

    by The Boourns on Jun 14, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

    once again, 15 pounds should not be out of the question due to how little mass he is starting with.

    Just hand him a carb heavy protein shake after every workout and I think he will be just fine coming into training camp.

    by bearded thundar on Jun 14, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

    yup.

    Then he’ll not only be a guy who’s long, smooth, and can really stroke it, but he’ll be strong like bull too…or at least strong like uhhhhhh pig.

    Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

    by The Boourns on Jun 14, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I believe the phrase you are looking for is “country strong”

    by bearded thundar on Jun 14, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

    I also read today that I'll put up in a post tonight or tomorrow:

    But might as well get you guys started on it to discuss — Chris Iott did a couple posts today about Texas guard Avery Bradley working out for the Pistons. He shoots down the report in his first post because the timing is off, but later reneged that post when a Pistons source confirmed Bradley worked out with the team a couple weeks ago.

    Few thoughts on this:

    1) Pistons said workouts after the season up to this week were for potential 2nd rounder.

    2) Avery Bradley is mocked at mid-1st. In fact, some have him at 13 to the Raptors.

    3) Dumars said he hadn’t discussed trades with any other teams up until at least the other day at noon. Could he still have been foreseeing a potential trade, perhaps trading down in the draft? The mocks that have Bradley at 13 is to the Raptors, who do have one of the DBB faves, Jarrett Jack.

    4) Avery Bradley’s another shooting guard.

    Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
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    by Packey on Jun 14, 2010 3:10 PM EDT reply actions  

    The thought of drafting a SG gives me a migraine.

    by brgulker on Jun 14, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

    It was david spade who said '04 Pistons

    He’s a native Michigander.
    He was also wearing a Pistons jersey.

    by JoeDip on Jun 14, 2010 5:02 PM EDT reply actions  

    Lawson is awesome

    but not worth a top 10 pick in a draft like this. better talent could be had.

    Uh, me, new?

    by Mike Payne on Jun 14, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

    What an exciting chess match for uber basketball nerds! I haven’t been this psyched for the draft since 1994!

    by garrettelliott on Jun 14, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

    There seems to be teams with common interest here.

    Detroit, Sacramento, and Toronto might be able to work out a deal. Us and Toronto are looking to trade up in the draft. We’re looking for different looks at the pg position. Toronto has a player who’s demanding a trade with a 1 team Bosh-List in Sacramento. And Sacramento is looking to add veterans to their young core. So:

    Detroit gets Jarrett Jack, 5th pick
    Toronto gets Nocioni, 7th pick
    Sacramento gets Hamilton, Turkoglu, 14th pick

    Also, this trade wouldn’t be able to be official until after July 1st when Sacramento gets their cap space.

    by Roll The Dyess on Jun 14, 2010 8:32 PM EDT reply actions  

    but why would Sacramento do that?

    That trade would make them much worse, think about it.

    You are asking them to waste their cap space on two well over priced veterans, both of whom are unhappy with their current situations. They could be positive influences, but they could very well be negative influences – not what you want on a young team. But more importantly they can get better players via free agency, even if that means overpaying someone like Joe Johnson.

    Also that #5 pick holds a lot more value to them than either Hamilton or Turkoglu. Even with Monroe or Johnson, they are getting a high quality player that will greatly improve their team at a fraction of the cost of the vets. Johnson is projected to easily average 20 ppg in a few years, if he puts up 17 now on a rookie contract, why would they want Hamilton? And if they want a talented scoring frontcourt player who plays no defense, would not Greg make more sense due to the position (and salary)?

    by bearded thundar on Jun 14, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

    honestly, this would be a trade of horrific proportions for sacramento. gotta look at it from their perspective. they’d waste a killer pick and all their cap space on negative value. my first instinct was to just say “facepalm”, but i’m not trying to be a dick about it. bad trade.

    Uh, me, new?

    by Mike Payne on Jun 14, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

    Turkoglu has a 15% trade kicker

    It’s gonna be next to impossible to move that albatross of a contract, I don’t care what he’s demanding. And this trade, from the perspective of Sacramento, is nothing short of franchise suicide.

    by brgulker on Jun 15, 2010 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

    Bottom line...

    Deals are out there to be had, and JD will likely make something significant happen before the start of the year. It may be in the draft, it may be a deal, but I think something is coming. Last year had to sit so poorly with him that a move or two of significance (and potential risk) has to be made. I am okay with parting with Stuckey for a true PG if we get size in a trade or in the draft. Stuckey is a solid player but not an all-star level talent year in and year out, and solid to good players are everywhere in this league, lets be honest. His dizzy spells worry me some too, (as much as his lack of true PG abilities and lack of a 3pt shot). I just am not sold on the guy, but that doesnt mean I am sold on jack, collison, et al. at all either.

    by The Rake on Jun 16, 2010 11:40 PM EDT reply actions  

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