Are we doomed? The Bron-Bosh-Chi Post
by Kevin Sawyer on Jun 28, 2010 7:31 PM EDT
in Detroit Pistons Previews
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PrintIf we are, we can thank Ernie Grunfeld. Thanks to Grunfeld's preposterous decision to take on 17,000,000 dollars worth of Kirk Hinrich for the luxury of pissing away the 17th pick in the draft, the Bulls are in a position to take on two max free agents.
Who might those be? That's anyone's guess. But right now, "anyone" seems to be guessing LeBron James and Chris Bosh. And so I ask, are we doomed? Find out after the jump...
Let's begin with a discussion of what it means for an NBA fan to be doomed. Under the NBA's bargaining agreement, at worst, a fan will root for a team that has no chance to escape it's conference over the course of the next five years.
That sounds like a good working definition, yes? Let's roll!
To assist us in determining whether we would be doomed, let's employ what the British like to call maths. The British don't play basketball (because when they do, it turns them gay), but they do know how to properly abbreviate "mathematics", so we'll use their method.
Using maths, and fundamental assumptions about what the Bulls rotation will look like with the inclusion of LeBron and co. (if this goes through, Chris Bosh's nickname henceforth is "andco."), I will try to determine whether this summer's events have doomed us.
I have no idea, btw, whether I punctuated that sentence correctly.
Let's look at what the Bulls would be getting, based on win shares. LeBron sits at about .3 ws/48, while Bosh is good for about .18. What this means, if you believe the metrics people, is that a lineup of Chris Bosh's will win 90% of the time, and that a lineup of three LeBron James's and two bags of peanuts would win 90%, so long as those peanuts manage not to kick the ball into the stands, punch referees, or do whatever the hell it is Kwame Brown does.
So far so good for the Bulls. And we haven't even gotten to Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah. 70 wins is the basement, right?
Probably not. Read on.
First of all, contrary to popular belief, Derrick Rose is not yet a star. His ws/48 was .1, which is the league average. Of course, he's still very young, and obviously athletic, so we can project some increase in effectiveness next year. But the fact is that he's a solid, but unspectacular offensive weapon (as his player efficiency rating suggests), and a terrible defender (as everyone who has watched him play suggests).
Noah, on the other hand, was pretty brilliant for the Bulls, especially in the last half of the season. His ws/48 of .15 led the team, and he demonstrated similar value as his minutes increased. Next year, and with Vinny Del Negro out of the way, it's probably safe to say he gets full-time minutes.
Then there is Luol Deng. There has been talk the Bulls might need to give him up in order to secure James, who may demand to exercise his bird rights. But why would Cleveland take on an albatross of a contract for such an average player, when they will certainly need to rebuild? I'm pissing on that theory right now. Of course, with the addition of James, Deng's minutes look to be subject to reduction.
I'll just assume Taj Gibson continues to be Taj Gibson, and that James Johnson will continue to suck.
Outside of that, the Bulls won't have much room to make any more moves this off-season. They didn't have any draft picks, and can only offer the minimum to incoming players. Their last, best hope is either players who got overlooked in free agency, or ring chasers.
I think it's a given that a Bulls team loaded with Bosh and James will attract at least one veteran looking for a ring, don't you? It's also probable that one savvy veteran will try to raise his stock by playing a role on a championship squad. So add to more competent players to the fold.
Add that up, and you get (drum roll, please... Oh, wait, this is a blog without sound)
60 wins.
That's not chicken scratch, but it's no better or worse than you would expect from a favorite to win a conference championship.
Initially, the Bulls are going to have to give minutes to some pretty bad players. It's easy to look at the top of the roster, and declare victory, but ask the Miami Heat how that goes. Three-point specialists cost money, for example.
Further, there is no guarantee that Rose is going to take the next step. He has a mediocre perimeter game, and has spent two years learning a role that is going to change substantially with the addition of James. Who's to say he won't regress a bit? If he does, the win projection goes down substantially.
Of course, even if the Bulls don't pull down a ring right away, they can flesh out the roster with draft picks and exceptions. But, at the same time, they have to re-up players like Noah, who may command max money next year from a metrics-inclined team.
In other words, there is no doom in sight. The present cap rules were designed, in part, to keep a team from becoming an insurmountable dynastic franchise. Even if the Bulls hit the jackpot, the cap will do its job.
To add a bit of perspective, let me take you back to a decade ago. In the summer of 2000, Grant Hill and T-Mac were headed to Orlando, while the Heat had consolidated a slew of top-flight talent. The only question was, which team would win game 7 of the Eastern conference finals.
Which team won? The Philadelphia 76ers, of course, who defeated the Milwaukee Bucks. The Heat and Magic managed to win one playoff game combined. Three seasons later, a team that certainly seemed doomed managed to not only win the conference, but the championship as well.
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I think he should go there
They’ve got money and a great supporting cast right now. If LeBron truly wants to be considered the greatest player ever and win in a big market, then the Clips are a very logical option. Think about it, if he brought them a string of titles, people would probably value them more than any other big town simple because the Clippers have sucked for so long. And they play in the same arena as Kobe, meaning tons of publicity additional publicity to his own, especially in head to head matchups.
by bearded thundar on Jun 28, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Kevin Seraphin is now my favorite Wizard. I hope he turns into the nastiest son of a bitch to don a beret and dunk a ball.
by Biz Markie Moon on Jun 28, 2010 8:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I just can’t imagine LeBron willingly wanting to play in the shadow of MJ, unless he truly believes he can eclipse MJ’s legacy.
He's got to be even more full of himself than we thought possible
If he thinks he can surpass MJ’s legacy in Chicago. Not only was MJ probably the greatest scorer we’ve ever seen (putting up 37 ppg off 50% shooting in the 80s is straight up hardcore), but he also greatly benefited with that all the major powerhouses were gone in his prime.
Think about it, LA, Boston and Detroit all were done by the time MJ started truly winning. And unless if you consider the Heat or Knicks, MJ didn’t really have any decent competition in the east. And simple put the Blazers and Suns were undeniably great teams, leaving only the Jazz and Houston around to put up real competition.
When you look at today, Miami will likely be just as good as whatever team LeBron lands on. Kobe will likely 3-peat, possibly 4-peat. Orlando will always have an edge at center and don’t sleep on teams like the Jazz that are always 50+ winners. I think that LeBron will flat out be in a tougher era to win many consecutive titles and doesn’t have the advantage of 2 HOF defensive stoppers. I honestly don’t think he has any chance at surpassing MJ in Chicago, perhaps in somewhere like LA or Cleveland that was historically bad before he arrived, but not in Chitown
by bearded thundar on Jun 28, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
That Sonics team they played
Was better than the Blazers. Not better than the Suns, but Kemp absolutely DESTROYED Chicago that series. He was the best player on the court.
"Wait a minute! That's insane! They're total liars. I kept my mouth shut when Dean said he could read Sanskrit, and when Hank said he wanted a piece of him, I was like 'Fine. Whatever.', but Mecha-Shiva? No way! They are so lying, I'm innocent!"
-The Monarch
by Thom_not_Tom on Jun 29, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
If it came down to Miami or Chicago
Would you rather play with D.Wade or D.Rose and J.Noah? If Bron went to Miami it wouldn’t be his team would it? He wouldn’t mind the 1a 1b thing would he? Depends on his ego I guess, but he seems willing to get his teamates involved and shares the ball…
Favre's ankle, Starcaps BS and hopefully a busy Piston offseason, oh my. Go Netherlands/Holland/Dutch Soccer(no its not Football)! Also, Lesnar, Lesnar, Lesnar!!!!!!!
I've been saying this as well..
since the rumor was first mentioned. Makes NO SENSE AT ALL from a legacy standpoint. MJ waited several years to win, finally did it, in Chicago. Bron should really do the same thing in Cleveland if he is worth his salt. That being said, I think that NYK is the other best choice for HIM. Largest market, starving fan base, MSG classic arena where he loves to play. In truth, I hope he goes there, for the sake of the Pistons, if nothing else. But I keep hearing Chicago, which really is just ridiculous.
http://thefilmnest.com
Michigan, Pistons, Wings, Tigers, Chargers 'til I die.
But if they sign Bosh and LeBron, they won’t be able to re-sign Brad Miller! I don’t think they can recover from that loss.
Punctuation in Paragraph 5
Um, no, that wasn’t punctuated correctly. Nor was it even a sentence:
“Using maths, and fundamental assumptions about what the Bulls rotation will look like with the inclusion of LeBron and co. (if this goes through, Chris Bosh’s nickname henceforth is “andco.”) "
All you have is a participle phrase and a parenthetical explanation. (The parenthetical is a complete sentence, though, and should probably be marked by a capital letter.) No subject or verb appears. If you had a complete sentence, you would need a comma after ‘and co.’ and, then, the complete thought you intended to introduce using the participle phrase.
BTW, I’m only posting this since Paragraph 6 brought this up. Grammar, of course, is situational and it is only worth commenting upon, rather than, say, on whether or not we are doomed, if an original poster raises the issue.
My bad
Got so hooked on the punctuation issue, I forgot to construct a sentence. Now have at it. I feel like it should be on the chalkboard in that scene from A Serious Man.
by Kevin Sawyer on Jun 28, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, emphatically
In addition to Kevin’s analysis, I’d point to the 2004 Pistons. Any team that can defend the way that squad did is capable of winning a championship against any other team.
FWIW, if I were any of the teams with all sorts of money, I’d avoid two max contracts at all costs. I’d pursue one of the elite FAs with a max deal and then look for 2-3 other $5-7 million players (such as Lamar Odom, versatile, play several positions, effective in multiple roles) to fill out the starting five.
I’d point to the 2004 Pistons. Any team that can defend the way that squad did is capable of winning a championship against any other team.
Even after the ridiculous Detroit Defense / Hand-Checking Rules installed after we won the 2004 ’ship?
Uh, me, new?
not after 05
most people agreed that we were kinda a fools gold by then, always making the ECF but without our hardcore defense, we couldn’t outscore any team with a legit star
by bearded thundar on Jun 29, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd say handchecking
Wade doesn’t average literally 20 free throws a game without the rules
by bearded thundar on Jun 29, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
This years celtics?
The Celitcs this year looked like they were pretty focused on their defense and they managed to get all the way to game 7 which they may have won if it weren’t for the perkins injury.
that was a poorly played series to be honest
people were missing open shots all over the place. I think it had to do more with fatigue and old age than good defense.
You could argue the 08 Celtics, but they also had 3 premium offensive players at that time.
by bearded thundar on Jun 29, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
20 fts?
Now that’s not rite. Durant was the leader this year and he didn’t even shoot 20pg. I get your point though BT.
Practice safe sex. Go fuck yourself !
speaking about the 05-06 playoffs
Wade got record something like 24 free throws in the 4th quarter of one of the games in the Finals (I believe it was game 3, but not positive on that).
by bearded thundar on Jun 29, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
If I'm Orlando...
…I try to get Bosh in a sign and trade with Toronto giving them Gortat, Bass, Pietrus/Redick(S&T)/Nelson and 2 first round picks.
Bosh and Howard would complement each other perfectly and then Lewis could move to small forward.
Whoa, that’s a nice idea. I haven’t heard of that before. Howard/Bosh would be crazy.
by garrettelliott on Jun 28, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if the Magic would go for it, though. I think they like having 4 three-point shooters on the floor. Bosh would have to improve his game in that aspect to make it work.
He wouldn't need to step out that far
he’s already got a decent 15 foot jumper. I think he could operate pretty well out of the high post, especially if SVG puts shooters at 1-3. The real question: would anyone ever get an offensive rebound against that front line?
by handsomerob1 on Jun 29, 2010 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions
But, Chicago and Miami are scary...
Chicago: Rose, Noah, Deng and two max players.
Miami: three max players and Beasley and Chalmers.
Brooklyn: Lopez, Harris, Favors, one max player and another high priced free agent.
New York: two max players and… Eddy Curry, Wilson Chandler
hey guys don't forget all these teams need a solid bench
you can’t just play LeBron, Wade etc 48 minutes a night. I don’t think there’s really any chance for Miami to get 3 max players because you need at least 4 serviceable players coming off the bench.
Also don’t forget that NY has Bill Walker, the guy has a ton of talent. I think that he will develop into at least a consistent 17 ppg SG, if not 20+ ppg. He’s crazy efficient and can score in volume, check out what he did at the end of last season when he got the minutes.
by bearded thundar on Jun 28, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
anywhere but chicago for lebron
that would be insufferable
i think cleveland would be the worst (if he wins a championship).
i would love it if he stayed and fell short his entire career.
by the89oracle on Jun 28, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I insist he should go to the Nets
Nice young cheap core that will continue to get better and a possible move to NY. Add to that the fact that a Russian who shits money wants to spend the money he shits on the team and that is a great situation for a star player.
Where in the world is Trent Plaisted?
I've been saying that for months
They offer the NY market but have a terrific core, we’re talking instant 60 wins if he and anyone decent go there. However I still think it would be better for his legacy to go to LA.
by bearded thundar on Jun 28, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I've been saying that too.
Plus, there’s no pressure. They’re the worst team in the league. If he turns them into a 55 win team, it could be one of the greatest turnarounds ever. Can’t remember what the Boston turnaround was…
by Quick Darshan on Jun 29, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Lopez > Noah
Granted Rose is better then Harris but I think Harris can turn it around next year. AND Courtney Lee isn’t THAT bad.
by Taiwanese Tora on Jun 29, 2010 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Lopez > Noah
Noah is a better rebounder, shot blocker, and defender, the most important qualities for an NBA center.
Uh, me, new?
I like Noah but I’ll take Lopez all day. Still in shock from what he and Yi did to us in that one game together
Practice safe sex. Go fuck yourself !
Nets just iced Jialian, sentenced him to play for the Wizards.
NJ shedding more salary.
"For fam like the Partridges, pardon him for the mix up
battle for your Atari cartridges or put your kicks up, it’s a stick up"
rose and noah are so overblown it hurts
people keep talking like their the cornerstone of a dynasty to be. i don’t see that. at all.
To be fair people are mostly talking about the dynasty-to-be because it might involve LeBron. I don’t think anyone is waiting for the Rose/Noah Bulls to make it deep into the playoffs as they’re currently constructed. But LeBron could make almost anyone a dynasty, and Rose/Noah are already pretty good players.
by garrettelliott on Jun 28, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the dual max contracts aren't quite max.
It’s more like 1 & 3/4 max, not 2. They need to move Deng first.. Colangelo is admitting the Craptors will lose Bosh, so if he asks for Deng & cash or Deng & another cat in sign & trade, then maybe.
So the questions are:
Can crybaby Bosh accept that 0.75 on the dollar, as well as being at most the second biggest name on that Bulls roster
..and is Chicago cosmopolitan enough for Starstruck Lebron?
I don’t give either of those concepts great odds on coming to fruition.
"For fam like the Partridges, pardon him for the mix up
battle for your Atari cartridges or put your kicks up, it’s a stick up"
Are we doomed?
Were the Clippers doomed when Gasol was traded to the Lakers? Were we doomed when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Suppose Lebron and Bosh both sign in Chicago. For the next 5 years, the length of their contracts, they’re pretty much in control of the EC and a safe bet for a finals berth throughout most of that stretch.
But does that really doom us?
Does anyone think the Pistons really have a clear shot at the finals in the next five years, given the current roster/cap scenario? We are still more than one move away from contention— and not even yet a proven playoff-worthy team. Not only that, it’s not clear that we have the moveable/expiring assets to allow more than one starter quality roster upgrade.
We won 50 games in each of the two seasons prior to our 2004 championship. The pieces were there, the chemistry was there, the roster just needed one little bump to jump the hurdle. The Rasheed trade made that happen. Now, we are far, far more than a Rasheed trade away from even thinking about getting out of the Eastern Conference.
So are we doomed if Bosh and Lebron sign in Chicago?
No. We have bigger fish to fry. We are re-building. There is no clear evidence to suggest that we’ll even wind up in the Eastern Conference Finals, let alone getting out of the East.
I am optimistic about this team, despite its remaining flaws, and I expect a healthy leap in the next season. But David needs to worry about picking up stones before he takes on Goliath…
Uh, me, new?
And after all
LeBron and Bosh both have such loooong track records of being winners first, stat oriented second…
We can take one thing at a time – worry about the Pistons rebuilding first, watching LeBron and Bosh fizzle in the second round later.
I'm not concerned about Bosh to be honest
I doubt he ever does anything more than Barkley did, and I think that Sir Charles did put forth winning over anything once he left Philly.
LeBron also seems to care more about dancing and showing off then he does about motivating his teams during timeouts. The thing that scares me is the thought of perhaps putting him alongside someone that isn’t afraid to get in his face about doing all the little things and letting others enjoy the ball. Sure LeBron put up 40 a game against Orlando, but none of his teammates, especially Mo Williams, could get into rhythm with him forcing them to only catch and shoot.
I highly doubt that LeBron goes to Miami, but Pat Riley would be one guy that would force him to listen for sure. I think if you put him and Wade together with any decent post presence and Riley as a coach, we’re looking at 4, possibly 5 to 6 championships in a row.
Regardless, I agree with what Mike said. Let’s get our own team in order first and then worry about winning in the playoffs. I am very excited about the summer league; it will be certainly interesting to watch White and Monroe run the pick and roll
by bearded thundar on Jun 29, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
LeBron also seems to care more about dancing and showing off then he does about motivating his teams during timeouts.
Agreed. Lebron is neither a) a leader or b) smart. A year or two of college, and we might not even question the “as good as MJ?” nonsense.
Uh, me, new?
I think you're doing Sir Charles a disservice by even comparing Bosh to him
Bosh is good, but he’s never going to be a legit #1 option like Barkley was. He’s not even as good as Shawn Kemp was (for Seattle).
"Wait a minute! That's insane! They're total liars. I kept my mouth shut when Dean said he could read Sanskrit, and when Hank said he wanted a piece of him, I was like 'Fine. Whatever.', but Mecha-Shiva? No way! They are so lying, I'm innocent!"
-The Monarch
by Thom_not_Tom on Jun 29, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
He just thinks he is.
"For fam like the Partridges, pardon him for the mix up
battle for your Atari cartridges or put your kicks up, it’s a stick up"
Were we doomed when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
wasnt it the japanese?
or are you referring to this?
That's why I used five years as a working definition
The Pistons’ Pythagorean win totals went like this:
2001 – 36
2002 – 48
2003 – 52
2004 – 59
If we experience a similar turnaround, but do so while lodged in a conference with a 68 win juggernaut, it will certainly seem like we are doomed.
by Kevin Sawyer on Jun 29, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Get ready for an entertaining front office miscalculation.
First off, the only thing worse than the hype around Lebron are all the pathetic franchises that are decimating their rosters just to get a chance to talk to him. I think this wuld not be happening if the Celtics had not found success by adding Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen to their roster. Now it seems like a championship is just two contracts away.
The truth about the Celtics after the additions of KG and Allen: They were really good.
You can’t argue that they were not one of the best NBA teams ever, their record supports it, their championship supports it, and the jump in all players WS/48 supports it. Why this is probably not going to be the case for CHI/Jersey/NYK/whoever:
1. Each Star’s numbers went down, and they were ok with it. Lebron says that he doesn’t care about the scoring title, but is he ready to let his scoring barely get above 20? All of the Boston Stars had to drop their scoring, and they also had similar drops in other pertinent categories. I don’t know if Lebron, or Rose, will have the maturity to know when they should give up the ball and let the other one score.
2. Boston led the league in defense. Having KG and Paul Pierce stressing the importance of winning EVERY game every night, along with a solid group of supporting players helped, but there was a giant commitment to defense probably started by the coach. They were able to do this right from the bat, starting the year 29-3, because…
3. Doc Rivers coached the team the year before. Eddie House and James Posey joined KG and Allen, but pretty much the rest of the role players had already spent a year with Doc Rivers. This meant that they already bought in, and he already knew what they were capable of. Most of these teams have brand new coaches that might not get them up to speed.
Now when these three things don’t happen in Chicago/Jersey/wherever you can probably assume that there won’t be a 60 win season on tap. I’m assuming that maybe they can get into the playoffs, but doubt they will have a strong enough bench to win it. Then what? Well, I’m guessing these guys will be on sort of a superstart treadmill, like the mavericks, they will go out and try to get new players while never getting any (and I know it sounds corny saying it, but….) grit and toughness. So given all that, I don’t think we’re doomed at all.
Celtics
were just a hungry team and the intensity that KG brought to that team changed them drastically. They also had strong veteran leadership in KG, Pierce, Allen. Bosh or BronBron might talk a big game, but they are not hungry like they believe. They want to win, but they don’t want to sacrifice to win. That’s why the Celtics won and probably why the next team that lands Bron and possibly Bosh will not win…at least not right away or without proper leadership.
Best Regards,
Rami.
We're doomed. And it doesn't matter.
The 2012 Apocalypse is only 905 days away.
F*ck them long-term contrax.
Trade for Al Jeff! Trade for Brand!
Stephen A Smith quite frankly
sez Miami will be Bron Bron, DWade, and Bosh’s new home
Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
Twitter
V Quite Frankly Sez
Steven A don’t know what time it is. Bron Bron and DWade ain’t gonna to play together. Neither is going to be second banana. That simple.
by V. on Jun 29, 2010 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Wade/LeBron/Bosh in Miami is REALLY unlikely, but I’ve said for YEARS that all the awesome players should just go to the same team and kick ass for the next decade. It would be kind of cool to see it actually happen. It would be like watching a Dream Team every night, and if one of the regular teams beat them it would be a crazy celebration. I think it would be pretty exciting.
by garrettelliott on Jun 29, 2010 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions
they play different games
KG and Pierce can both be number 1 options because KG used to always be in the high post while Pierce was on the perimeter, leaving room for both to be effective. KG could fight for tip ins on Pierce misses and Pierce could spot up for wide open jumpers when KG drew in the defense. Also it did help their cause that KG took over as defensive leader and Pierce as offensive, that way both could be in charge without interfering too much with the other.
However LeBron and Wade are both ball dominant wings that do the majority of their damage via drive and kick or pick and roll. There really isn’t a way for one to be truly effective while the other does his thing with the ball as both their games rely on having a few nice bigs and a bunch of spot up shooters.
by bearded thundar on Jun 29, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see a problem—there are plenty of possessions for them both to have the ball. Jordan and Pippen did well, although Jordan clearly got the ball more (and Pippen did bitch at times).
Is there an example of two players like James and Wade who could not co-exist on the same team? I’m trying to think of an example.
Jordan was 1 and Pippen was 2
That was always understood between the two. However with Wade and LeBron, Wade has always had control of the team and has a title, but LeBron is used to being a spoiled bitch in Cleveland and will want to be the first option there too (another reason why he shouldn’t go, Miami won’t spoil him nearly as much). It’s not the same as they would eventually start fighting over who deserves to have the ball more.
Also Wade has even said he would rather play with Dwight than LeBron. You can always have 2 number 1 options if they are a frontcourt/backcourt combination. However if both players are wings, you generally run into trouble – just think of AI over here.
by bearded thundar on Jun 29, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Couldn’t agree more. I’m not quite ready to say it wouldn’t work because they’re so good, but those concerns are completely legit. Also, Bron would have to develop a very good low post game and one of the 2 would need to be a knockdown 3 point shooter for it to work against good defense like they’d see from LA or OKC in the finals.
As far as a Bulls team w/ Bron and Bosh: it has NO 3point shooting whatsoever except for whatever scraps they can get in free agency. Almost any playoff team is good enough defensively to guard a team that has no shooting and no post game. Plus Rose would just become a spot up jump shooter like Larry Hughes was and we saw how successful that was.
They could sign Reddick?
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jun 29, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
That's the first dude that came to my mind too
Honestly, he wouldn’t be a bad fit. Other than the fact that he’s a short white dude who’s average (at best) on D.
by handsomerob1 on Jun 30, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
he's improved a lot
I wouldn’t call him a lock down defender, but he’s a pretty good one now and can even handle the ball a bit
by bearded thundar on Jun 30, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
His shortcomings stem from his whiteness
and relative lack of athleticism more than anything. He’d be a good 2 in that lineup, just sitting in the corner jacking up open 3’s.
by handsomerob1 on Jun 30, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
They wouldn’t have the money to sign Redick. If he leaves Orlando he’s not doing it to take a massive pay cut. It’d be Von Wafer or Roger Mason Jr—those are probably the 2 best shooters who you could get for the minimum.
I don't know that Roger Mason Jr. warrants less pay than JJ Redick
but maybe I’m overvaluing Roger Mason
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jun 30, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I consider them about equal, too.
But there’s zero chance you can get Redick for the minimum because Orlando would match; Mason you might be able to since he’s a UFA and had a down season last year.
We're Doomed Anyway
Pistons picked the wrong time for the ownership to be in limbo. That being said, I think Mrs. Davidson knows whom she is selling the team to, it’s just a matter of time to negotiate the price, dot the Is, cross the Ts.
I don’t think LBJ has made up his mind yet, and everything you’re reading is mindless media speculative prattle, designed to stir conversation and controversy. Nothing of substance whatsoever. One thing for sure, he won’t be playing with DWade in Miami.
Well, maybe not that doomed…maybe Stuck figures it out, maybe JJ develops into an elite 3, maybe Monroe becomes a better player than we think (at the same time, Cousins develops into a knucklehead…which is pretty average for a John Calipari player), and let’s see who we get for Rip and Tay, because they really don’t fit well into future plans anymore.
ESPN is reporting that LeBron met with Wade and Bosh in Miami over the weekend and that Miami is now the front runner to sign ALL FREAKING THREE. Screw the Boston big three, can you imagine three of the four best players from 1 of the 2 greatest drafts of all time being on the same team? Apparently they are all willing to take way less than max deals to play together and get some help to win a championship. Also heard that it might be contingent on Riley stepping back in front of the bench to coach.
So, essentially, you have a PG-Wade-LeBron-Beasley-Bosh starting lineup with Pat freaking Riley coaching them.
What the hell.
by Apocalyptic0n3 on Jun 29, 2010 10:02 AM EDT reply actions
that would...
SUCK!
So then who gets second pickings of Joe Johnson, Amare, Boozer? I really hope that Chicago ends up with essentially nothing in return. That would be cool, why? cause I hate every sports team that hails from the Chi.
Best Regards,
Rami.
Apparently New York has agreed to a sign and trade for Joe Johnson. Eddy Curry, Randolph, and Galonari (or however you spell it) are heading to Atlanta. Plus a second rounder, I believe. Not bad for Atlanta if it’s true. They stand no chance at resigning Johnson, and getting Randolph, Galo, and Curry’s expiring contract is pretty good for someone you won’t be resigning anyway.
Expect Amar’e or Boozer to team up with Johnson in New York and the other to head to Chicago (since New Jersey drafted themselves out of the PF sweepstakes). OJ Mayo/Rudy Gay (honestly get the two mixed up all the time) will probably end up in New Jersey, methinks. That or the New Jersey cap space will be used in a trade and they will go to Chicago with Boozer/Amar’e
by Apocalyptic0n3 on Jun 29, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5338472
“Some sources who were at the meeting…”
Yeah Bosh, Wade, and Bron let flies on the wall listen in. Color me skeptical.
From that link
Earlier Monday, Fox Sports Radio’s Stephen A. Smith reported on his morning radio show and via his Twitter feed that James and Bosh have committed to joining Wade in Miami.
So now that we know what won’t happen, where is LeBron going?
by handsomerob1 on Jun 29, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
EVERYTHING STEPHEN A. SAYS IS IMPORTANT!
"Wait a minute! That's insane! They're total liars. I kept my mouth shut when Dean said he could read Sanskrit, and when Hank said he wanted a piece of him, I was like 'Fine. Whatever.', but Mecha-Shiva? No way! They are so lying, I'm innocent!"
-The Monarch
by Thom_not_Tom on Jun 29, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
IN HIS OWN MIND!
"For fam like the Partridges, pardon him for the mix up
battle for your Atari cartridges or put your kicks up, it’s a stick up"
I saw the New York thing on the Bottom Line during Sports Center this morning. Joe Johnson for Curry, Randolph, Galo, and a pick. The rest is just my analysis and predictions.
by Apocalyptic0n3 on Jun 29, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
What Randolph?
I’m pretty confused at the moment.
ALSO: NEW YORK KNICKS: QUIT TRADING DRAFT PICKS, ESPECIALLY FOR A GUY YOU’LL BE ABLE TO SIGN.
by Biz Markie Moon on Jun 29, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
they are going to let fans play the PG, based on lottery
everyone gets a ring
by redwingxviii on Jun 29, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn’t be much worse than the Arroyo/Chalmers duo they had going last year.
by Apocalyptic0n3 on Jun 29, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank Dumars!!!
Grunfeld isn’t the only one to thank for this. Had Dumars let Chicago have Gordon this could never have happened. Both Grunfeld and Dumars are complicit in the next NBA dynasty if this occurs.
They were never resigning Gordon
The Bull Org. has certain players they favor, like Hinrich and Deng, and Gordon was never even close to that status. If they had any interest in keeping him, they wouldn’t have rescinded their offer at the last minute in 2008.
"Wait a minute! That's insane! They're total liars. I kept my mouth shut when Dean said he could read Sanskrit, and when Hank said he wanted a piece of him, I was like 'Fine. Whatever.', but Mecha-Shiva? No way! They are so lying, I'm innocent!"
-The Monarch
by Thom_not_Tom on Jun 29, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
no market
of course they would have resigned him. the market for gordon was chicago or detroit. chicago would have resigned him, but at a lot less than he is making now. gordon would have had no choice. i think they wanted him back at a reasonable price, but not for what dumars offered him.
Actually you're still wrong
Ben Gordon flat out stated that Chicago never even talked to him about re-signing him. I mean sure, Chicago would have re-signed him for say $3 Million a year or something ridiculous like that, but that is completely unrealistic.
Gordon’s career should garner him somewhere around $10 million a year and JoD overpaid thinking that Chicago would at least offer him that. They didn’t because they didn’t want him. Because they were already thinking about whether they could land Lebron this year.
Chicago has been prepping to make a big splash in this free agency either with Lebron or Wade for like 2 years. Signing Gordon would be going completely against that plan.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Totally off.
Gordon was leaving Chicago one way or another, that’s just plain truth.
"For fam like the Partridges, pardon him for the mix up
battle for your Atari cartridges or put your kicks up, it’s a stick up"
and no one else was willing to spend more than the MLE
We could have had Gordon for $8 mil as there was no competition for him
by bearded thundar on Jun 29, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
just because
we were the first to bring him in and sign him doesn’t mean teams weren’t interested. Was it mentioned somewhere that no one wanted him? I find that hard to believe that’s the case after the numbers he put up in the boston playoff series, He essentially carried Chicago during that series.
Best Regards,
Rami.
Yeah
Teams would have wanted him, especially coming off that playoff performance.
by Kevin Sawyer on Jun 29, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
not according to ESPN
There were I believe 4 teams with cap space, and Detroit was the only team that actually called his agent.
by bearded thundar on Jun 29, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Well again...I don't think BT was saying no one wanted him
and I don’t think I was either…but wanting Gordon for what price is a different question all together. I think that BT is probably underestimating on teams not willing to pay anything more than the MLE although with so many teams essentially sitting on cap space last year in favor of this year’s free agency, I suppose that could have been the case.
Fact is though, JoD gave Gordon the money that he thought he’d be worth during the years he plays for Detroit rather than the money that we ultimately could have gotten away with paying him due to lack of interest/players at that price level (I’m thinking the $8 to $10 mil range)
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Gordon wouldn't have signed a multi-year deal for $8 million
At most, he’d have signed somewhere for a year, then tested the waters again.
yeah...
and probably would have gotten paid even more this year when teams strike out.
And given that Bosh and Lebron could end up going to the same place, other teams are very likely to strike out.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jun 30, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I say Bosh goes to play second fiddle to Wade in Miami.
Not Lebron though.
Where in the world is Trent Plaisted?
could also go to Chicago
Noah would take a lot of his defensive responsibilities off his shoulders – something Miami can’t offer since Beasely is completely unstable, and another star such as Johnson could come too.
by bearded thundar on Jun 30, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless Miami thinks that Haslem and Bosh could play well together. Haslem is a great defender, but he is undersized.
I’m sure ideally Miami would sign Wade, flip Beasley over in the Bosh deal then go out and sign Haywood to a deal starting around $8-10 mil so they have starting center big enough to guard Dwight/Bynum. Then they’d still have the MLE to try to get a guy like John Salmons to fill the void at SF. A guy who can not only knock down open threes but can also create.
Then Haslem re-ups for the veteran minimum and they take of him next summer when he has his bird rights back.
It’s probably a stretch but that seems like the best possible outcome for Miami to build a team that can compete with LA from day 1.
I don’t see Riley doing this half-ass though. He knows he needs a real center. Look at his track record: Kareem, Ewing, Mourning, Shaq. He’ll make sure they have a real center.
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