2010 Summer League Game 2: Pistons Vs. Warriors
by Mike Payne on Jul 10, 2010 5:27 PM EDT
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PrintThe Detroit Pistons will take their 7th pick Greg Monroe against the Golden State Warriors tonight in Las Vegas. Golden State will be without their number 6 pick from this year's draft, Ekpe Boodoh. The game tips at 8:00 EST, and this is your game thread. Will Austin Daye do it again? Will Terrico White block shots on guys with dreadlocks? Will Greg Monroe... rebound? (whoah, double meaning!) Tune in at 8, your fun starts right here.
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Monroe was ok.
Remember teh summer league is basically street ball. Yes id like Monroe to play better of course but im not putting to much into how he does in summer league. His strength isnt street ball.
by BennieBladesFan on Jul 10, 2010 5:57 PM EDT reply actions
So what he's saying is Greg Monroe is not Skip-to-my-Lou?
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
at first I thought that said "Raper" instead of "Rafer"
True story111
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
this i know, but then the Federal Building would have been all “whaaaaaat?” and I would have been all “look it uuuuuuupp!!!” and they would have been all “you beat your wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiife!!!1”
witty signature
by Mike Payne on Jul 10, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So will we be playing golden state nightmare free?
Ooduuh got a DNP last night…?
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
How can I watch it? Do I have to have that internet NBA Summer League shit? Or can I watch an online stream for free?
"The NBA... Where Free Darko Happens..."
am I only one having issues with the link?
I see the “summer league broadband” screen but no game.
Best Regards,
Rami.
same here
was wondering if I was the only one
by bearded thundar on Jul 10, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
spoke too soon
I guess you should just let it load for a bit. Took me about 8 minutes of sitting on that screen before broadcast.
Best Regards,
Rami.
OH BABY!!! HERE WE GO!
Lets go Jonas!
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
no not yet...
learning about the new bose sound system…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Bose!!!!!
They are nice speakers, but they’re so overpriced. I’d rather just build a true theatre setup with the same money.
They do pump out tons of power, however the cones are too small to give a true full sound spectrum. Alas I guess that’s a sacrifice you have to make if you want the compact size.
by bearded thundar on Jul 10, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
most do
I’ve got a polk setup, but ran out of cash to buy a receiver. Should be epic once i get some extra money
by bearded thundar on Jul 11, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I put together a Denon and Paradigm setup when I was working at a hi-fi a/v store back in the day (got it all 10% below cost), and it’s easily been one of the better monetary investments I’ve ever made. A quality sound system should be part of any good man’s home.
that and a nice room to enjoy it
I’m finishing up my basement, right now it’s got an office, a home gym, a bed and tv. Once the ceiling is finally done I’ll put up in the sound system, should be epic
by bearded thundar on Jul 11, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
nothing like a good pair of speakers in an acoustically treated room. my old studio:
I had acoustic diffusors and dampeners on the walls and ceiling, with bass traps in the corners. Shit sounded unreal in that little room, which was hexagonal to begin with.
witty signature
nice
I can’t tell very easily from the photo, is that an old school tube amp beneath the monitor?
by bearded thundar on Jul 11, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
no
it’s solid state. below that is a channel strip with a compresser, eq, limiter, de-esser and optimizer. below that was my i/o hardware for my pro tools system.
witty signature
Tell me whom is that handsome devil
I gotta show you my buddy’s studio that no longer exists in Los Feliz CA, it was real cool
RalphGoHome
A friend of mine at the time was shooting a series of portraits, so he was kind enough to give prints for time: http://www.dominicphoto.com/
Speaking of which, I need to look dude up— I’m now a Floridian too…
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jesus...more commercials than a thursday night game on TNT...
would love to hear Barkley guest commentate.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
he looks pretty slow out there...
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
yeah...it doesn't help that is hot as balls in here...
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
“I want to see Greg Monroe get his hands on more balls, I want to see him bang in the post”
Fantastic analysis there, Susan.
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Wasn't that McHale? or am I making that up?
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
A few before, he said, “I want to see more of [Monroe] from the waste down. I want to see him banging.”
he's dirty!
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
A few before that, he said, “Do you ever look at a big fella like that and just imagine what his junk looks like behind those shorts?”
witty signature
Oh and when he said
I want to give that guy a hot beef injection!
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
well that was innocent
He was offering to buy the young fella a hot dog during half time for the nice play. Come on Boourns.
witty signature
TIME TO SLAM A BEER!
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
because that's his first assist of the season.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I think McHale is drunk.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Per 36 stats on Monroe right now
9 points, 18 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 4.5 steals, 0 turnovers
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
difference between you and monroe...
I actually believe that you could maintain that per 36 pace for a full 40…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
shit I don't know
I’d like to thank god, my agent, my mom, Mr D, Nike and most importantly, all my fans.
witty signature
good point
and that dude who got stabbed with the table leg at that game in high school
witty signature
Future roster guys looking solid.
Jerebko has kept himself in check though. That’s how humble this kid is, he doesn’t want to humiliate these fools.
Where in the world is Trent Plaisted?
well and he wants his other teammates to shine.
Summer League is not the league that he chooses to dominate.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Tulsa Shock?
Change the name, you lazy assholes.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 10, 2010 8:50 PM EDT reply actions
good game so far...sosa is lookin quick.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
bout the only large contract that I actually agree with to some degree
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Yeah, Lee earned that contract.
Too bad he’s going to waste his prime in Golden State after wasting his early years in New York.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 10, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Who knows...
Biedrins and Lee to start with Friday Nightmare dude off the bench…they just moved Monta giving Stephen Curry more space to do his thing.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
all these contracts
makes BG and CV’s contracts look not so bad anymore to me. I was in HI on vaca and kept some tabs. My jaw dropped at some of em.
Best Regards,
Rami.
Darko got paid...finally he's gonna do it! He's going to contibute to an NBA basketball team...
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
McHale is totally fucking drunk.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
For Mchale? NEVER!
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
nice step back from Summers.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Nice inbound, Summers.
I’m hoping you were trying to hit McHale in the face.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 10, 2010 9:08 PM EDT reply actions
We shall combine Summers and Monroe into one super player.
With the passing ability of Summers and the athleticism of Monroe!
And we shall call him… Kwame.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 10, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe it'll rape someone.
ala “Splice.”
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 10, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice block by Daye.
Seems like the defense is better today.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 10, 2010 9:09 PM EDT reply actions
Also from Thorpe...
- Greg Monroe likes the fact that he can handle the ball better than most bigs.
- But he can wait before he shows off those skills, more or less. Time to beast it.
- What do u know-two post ups delivered one bucket and one assist. That’s what I want to see.
Monroe to Jerebko.
aka the future of the Pistons!
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 10, 2010 9:31 PM EDT reply actions
You mean he blocks, passes, and sets illegal screens?
Monroe = KG confirmed.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 10, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
How come the Shock suck so much?
Seriously, weren’t they good in Detroit? Why do they suck now?
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 10, 2010 9:33 PM EDT reply actions
Monroe is getting involved.
I like it.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 10, 2010 9:36 PM EDT reply actions
dude
was unreal last summer, better than this year so far. not that I don’t like what I’m seeing, I certainly do— but he was hot last summer too, as PS alluded.
witty signature
Yeah seriously
I remember being excited because I have a passing interest in Georgetown basketball (back when I wanted to be a lawyer, that was my pick) and reading he was killing it. Then all of a sudden, he started sucking.
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 10, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
he is exactly wrong
“they’re all” suggests that every single Australian is the descendant of criminals. The natives. The immigrants. Those who worked the penal colonies and those that moved there early for opportunity. They’re all the descendants of criminals?
witty signature
i think what he is trying to say is...
like me, I am an american, but I do not decend from anyone in the colonies.
am I right?
mainly trying to say
That i am an american but i did not descend from the people who started our country.
are we really going to get critical of someone using a bit of hyperbole?
“everyone in england has nasty teeth.” i don’t think someone would jump in and say “NUH UH some people in england brush their teeth so HAH”
are we really going to get critical of someone using a bit of hyperbole?
Well, yeah— I am. It’s irresponsible, counter-indicative of what the NBA stands for, it’s ignorant and mis-represents people in this very community. If a commenter here were to use that kind of negative hyperbole about any group of people, shit would hit the fan.
witty signature
haha. all right. somehow, that’s not the impression i have of DBB. but maybe i’m just thinking of exaggerated sarcasm in general, not racial comments
by the89oracle on Jul 10, 2010 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t say anything bad about Canadians, man, or DBB will MESS YOU UP.
by garrettelliott on Jul 10, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
"everyone in england has nasty teeth." i don’t think someone would jump in and say "NUH UH some people in england brush their teeth so HAH"
Pretty sure we had that conversation, but replace “bad teeth” with “bandwagon ass cats” and “English” with “Pistons fans.”
and there it is
Don't be callin' me dog cause I want ya to say it backwards - Tech N9ne
by MaxiellEatsLittleOnes on Jul 11, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Holy crap!
At least he didn’t call me a sheep rooter.
Well, there was the bit that you missed where I distracted him with the cuddly monkey then I said "play time's over" and I hit him in the head with the peace lily.
Why was that banned?
DISTURBING.
Well, there was the bit that you missed where I distracted him with the cuddly monkey then I said "play time's over" and I hit him in the head with the peace lily.
Alright, somebody catch me up
Who’s been awesome besides Summers? And Jerebko.
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 10, 2010 9:50 PM EDT reply actions
Mac Koshwal
and I am quickly becoming a fan of Terrico White. He was solid last game, and he’s still maintaining > .50 shooting, which was my biggest worry about dude.
witty signature
wow, dusting off that Mark Agguire shit
Jebron Lames was trying to get 23 wiped from the league, I hope Terrico is the lone holdout
Detroit what!
RalphGoHome
Kevin Mchale sounds kinda horny
Talking about balls and massaging them.
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 10, 2010 9:56 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, I noticed that when I was getting caught up
I mean, damn dude.
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 10, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Brent Barry
He was surprisingly good, too. Or at least, I liked him.
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 10, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
only watched a couple minutes
so i didn’t really notice who it was.
Be aggressive in the bottom!
Is this guy okay?
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 10, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, agreed
I especially like what he said about being a big man. I’d say Kevin Mchale probably drooled about it.
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 10, 2010 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven't seen much of it
but he couldn’t hit a free throw if it stole his wallet.
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 10, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
"lower your rear end and get in there"
by Pentatonic on Jul 10, 2010 10:09 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
http://www.nba.com/summerleague/games/20100710/DETGSW/gameinfo.html
G. Monroe F-C 29:33 4-6 0-0 3-7 +28 1 7 8 3 5 2 3 0 0 11
Not bad, of course, other than the turnovers
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 10, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a nice improvement over the first game.
If it continues, he could put up like 25-15-8 by the final game!
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 10, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Derrick Caracter's been showing some stuff..
Not bad for a 58th pick…
I hope someone takes Bosh's head right off.
Like Ben Wallace comes back just because he wants to take out one of them.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 10, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
not surprised
LeBron probably personally requested it
by bearded thundar on Jul 11, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Monroe looks like he could add 10-15 lbs
Get that man in the weight room!
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 10, 2010 11:36 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
he has the frame
I fully expect Ben Wallace to kick his ass in the gym; really isn’t any reason beyond lazyness that he shouldn’t be able to do so
by bearded thundar on Jul 11, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
oh and apparently Daye has added somewhere around 7-10 lbs of muscle since the end of the season...196-200 at the end of the season...207 now and wants to put on a little more.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
he still looked rail thin in the game
but I suppose I wouldn’t notice a 10lb difference.
Monroe def needs more muscle too!
Best Regards,
Rami.
I can clearly see a difference. He may still be very thin, but he’s no longer a toothpick. Before you could always see his tendons stick out and what not, but now he’s got a bit of girth on his upper body. Still not ripped by any definition, but no doubt there has been a lot of improvement.
But I do think that he still has plenty of room for improvement. Ideally he should try to end up around 230 to 245 by time he reaches 25 (4 years from now). Then he’ll entering his prime with enough size to fully handle the post but still mobile enough to play the 2 guard.
by bearded thundar on Jul 11, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
*make that 26, not 25
I thought he was 21, ESPN shows he’s actually 22. 30 to 40 pounds over 4 years really isn’t that unreasonable, especially not when you consider he’s added over 15 pounds since the time he was drafted.
by bearded thundar on Jul 11, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
He is an ectomorph
He will be lucky to crack 225. Look at Tay, shouldn’t he be 230-235 by now?
could be
Or it could be due to the fact that he never lifted before getting into the league.
You’re likely correct, I’m just saying the fact that he’s put on so much muscle so quickly points to him being able to put on quite a bit more. Not to mention Daye has a bigger frame than Tay and will probably have more room for growth (but also meaning that he would be less strong at the same weight).
by bearded thundar on Jul 11, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
If he puts on too much muscle
how will he still fit into his abercromie clothing
by Roll The Dyess on Jul 11, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Adding 10 lbs is actually a decent amount
Just ask my ex.
by Roll The Dyess on Jul 11, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
For all the Monroe-haters
a double-double would be something the fans haven’t seen in a while:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;ylt=Aqn1o0YE3s6OMwFEZPLa1qLvLYF?slug=nba_com-rookie.rankings-20100701
I don't hate Monroe, I like dude
but there’s no way in hell he’ll average a double-double. I’d be happy with about 12 points, 8 rebounds, 4 assists. Those aren’t ROY numbers, but that’s seriously what I expect him to do. If he averages 15 and 10 rebounds, I’ll be elated.
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 11, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Now that Ben's back he won't
But had he gotten the starting center job, I think he would have gotten the 10 boards purely because we have no other 7 footers beyond Daye.
However, I do think that Monroe has the capability to grab 10+ boards per game in the future now that Big Ben will mentor him for at least 2 years. Half of rebounding is boxing out and knowing where the ball will land, size and athleticism is a plus, but not entirely required. For instance, Lee is only 6’9" but got nearly 13 boards per game due to hustle and good positioning.
by bearded thundar on Jul 11, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
He does have the capability
I just hope he gets that desire to do it. I think a lot of his lack of rebounding now is because of his lack of basketball knowledge in that area, which I think is engendered from the fact that he’s used so much as a passer. No doubt, that’s his best ability, but I think that everybody’s talked about it so much, it’s decreased other aspects of his game. John Thompson pretty much said the same thing yesterday.
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 11, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he would have gotten the 10 boards
Have to pretty vehemently disagree with you there. He would have needed roughly 37 or so minutes per game to pull down 10 boards in the NCAA. Last season, the only rookie to get 37 mpg was Tyreke, and even if you were to give Monroe those minutes it would require a 100% translation of NCAA rebounding to NBA rebounding. It is a very transferable stat, but not at that rate.
In a very good case, sophomore season, I think 13 and 7 or 14 and 8 is a pretty solid expectation of Monroe in 32 minutes.
witty signature
but he had a clear advantage over everyone else
Insanity.
That and I do think he had a strong case of ADHD on top of being a tremendous athlete. He had one of the best sets of genes you’ll ever find; just look at how strong he was for his size on top of being extremely nimble – that’s a very rare combination, similar to LeBron except that Bron is just huge.
But yeah that does prove my point that understanding the path of the ball, how to position one’s self and having the strength/ability to box people out can make up for size (though once again, Rodman was a freak of an athlete by any professional standard)
by bearded thundar on Jul 13, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
nope
Guy was a small forward originally
by bearded thundar on Jul 13, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
You're right, Monroe won't average a double-double
But how about a TRIPLE DOUBLE, MOTHERFUCKER! I expect no less than 25 points per game, 13 rebounds, and 11 assists. THE MOOSE IS LOOSE, LEBRON!
"Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans."
-ralphgoblue/thunder_god08
by Thom_not_Tom on Jul 11, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
GONNA HATE
"Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans."
-ralphgoblue/thunder_god08
by Thom_not_Tom on Jul 12, 2010 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
that's harsh
I think Monroe can be a good player, not a star, but still a very functional player
by bearded thundar on Jul 12, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Kriz was poking fun at me...
I hear you, Kriz ;)
I’m just playing the skeptic. Just ‘cause Drew says so, doesn’t necessarily mean it is. That’s all I’m saying.
Ty Lawson, tonight
28 points on 63% shooting, 7 assists, 5 steals… I wish there was some way we could have gotten our hands on that kind of talent.
witty signature
I saw that
I’m trying to remind myself that it’s only the d-league, but that’s still really impressive.
by bearded thundar on Jul 11, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
20 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks
I wish we could draft someone who could put up these stats in a summer league game.
We did
His name is Austin Daye. I wouldn’t be surprised if he explodes on one of the final games like Anthony Randolph did for (I believe) 42 points
by bearded thundar on Jul 12, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
A little sarcasm again, MFBT
I brought it up because Jod picked Daye 3 spots ahead of Lawson, much to the dismay of some of DBB’s finest.
I think Daye’s offensive game is ready to go. He’s going to need to continue to work on his defense to stay on the court, though. Depending on matchups, I think Kue and Co. really want to play Daye some at SG even during the regular season to minimize his defensive problems.
For the record
“DBB’s finest” was not sarcasm. I just sometimes get a little tired of the should-haves, could-haves, what-might-have-beens.
I think part of Mike's gripes
Are that Lawson was traded for a low future first round pick immediately after being drafted; we could have very well gotten him for 2 second round picks
by bearded thundar on Jul 12, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
And that we publicly announce that we need to upgrade at the Point after drafting 3 SFs the year before and passing on Lawson while doing so.
That is revisionist history
When Jod picked Daye, he didn’t believe he would be drafting Jerebko and Summers. He had both of those guys rated much higher, as did just about every mock draft. Had he known he would get Jerebko and Summers, maybe he would have taken Lawson. He didn’t know and couldn’t have known. Obviously, Lawson was not on the board when Summers and Jerebko were taken.
We do need to upgrade the point, but going into the 2009 draft we also desparately needed to find an eventual replacement for Tay.
Time will tell who turns out to be the better player, but it just isn’t fair or accurate to suggest Jod is an idiot for taking three SF’s in 2009 when he clearly needed to upgrade the point.
Who said anything about him being an idiot?
And no, it’s not revisionist history. I’ve beaten this horse to death, but there are at least two other players I’d have selected before Daye, regardless of who was/n’t available in the 2nd. Hint: they don’t play SF.
I would have gone with Collison
He’s a much better player than even Lawson, the guy put up CP3 numbers as a starter.
But hindsight is 20-20, no sense in getting riled over DaJuan vs DeJuan, especially now that DaJuan is starting to finally look quite good
by bearded thundar on Jul 12, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Who said anything about him being an idiot?
I wrote “suggest”, which is presumptive on my part.
I’ve beaten this horse to death
That is true and is why I responded to the original comments about Lawson.
there are at least two other players I’d have selected before Daye
I don’t recall all the players you would have selected before Daye. Were they Lawson and Blair? If so, I think the jury is still out on who will be the better player between the three. They have only played one year and came in with quite different readiness vs. upside projections.
I don’t recall all the players you would have selected before Daye. Were they Lawson and Blair? If so, I think the jury is still out on who will be the better player between the three. They have only played one year and came in with quite different readiness vs. upside projections.
The only reason I mentioned two other picks other than Daye is because you’re claiming revisionist history. That’s simply not the case.
wualie, Gulker is right here
At the time, I really can’t think of anyone that was actually clamoring over Daye. The majority of us wanted Blair, and if not him either Jrue Holiday or Lawson
by bearded thundar on Jul 12, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
And that we publicly announce that we need to upgrade at the Point after drafting 3 SFs the year before and passing on Lawson while doing so.
We drafted one SF while passing on Lawson. This is the historical fact.
I know you didn’t mean it exactly that way, but it seems clear to me what you’re saying is it was foolish to draft three SF’s when we had a clear need at PG. My point is simply that Jod didn’t know he would get Jerebko and Summers when he passed on Lawson.
I realize you and others wouldn’t have picked Daye. I respect that opinion. In fact, I wouldn’t have picked Daye either. Jod did pick Daye and he’s been playing pretty well in summer league so far.
So, when someone commented about the amazing stat line Lawson had and the what-ifs and what-should-have-beens start in, I just felt it was prudent to post Daye’s impressive stat line. He was the guy that got picked ahead (instead) of Lawson, after all. It’s also very possible he turns out better than Lawson.
I totally agree with you
I was merely pointing out that we aren’t just looking in hindsight, people wanted Lawson from the start.
However I do agree that Daye is progressing nicely and doing better than expected this year. I did expect him to get stronger, but I didn’t expect him to become so much more fluid and more balanced, not to mention consistently be our best player
by bearded thundar on Jul 12, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is simply that Jod didn’t know he would get Jerebko and Summers when he passed on Lawson.
I would agree with that perspective if the draft were the only way to upgrade a team. I would also agree with that perspective if Austin Daye presented an improvement at SF that reflected the direction that the SF position is going in the eastern conference. Since neither are the case, I just cannot buy that drafting philosophy.
I know this isn’t what you’re saying, but your suggestion assumes that if we don’t draft an SF at 15, we won’t get an SF upgrade at all. Last year’s free agent class, when we had a nice chunk of change to spend, was pretty healthy at the 3.
what you’re saying is it was foolish to draft three SF’s when we had a clear need at PG
Technically, we picked up five SFs in a row in the draft. Our picks were traded for Sharpe, then we drafted Daye, Summers, Jerebko and lastly Budinger, whom we drafted for Houston.
We do need to upgrade the point, but going into the 2009 draft we also desparately needed to find an eventual replacement for Tay.
Not as bad as we needed to upgrade the point. We already traded Chauncey. We didn’t have a point guard on our roster.
Man, this shit has been hashed, re-hashed, over-hashed, under-hashed and hash-brown’d here on DBB. But I’m still waiting for someone to sit me down (amongst others) and really explain, with hard facts, why we used our draft picks for 5 small forwards in a row when our biggest need has always been at the 5… and the 1. 2 of those small forwards are gone. 3 remain. 2 are expected to be played out of position. The one remaining SF doesn’t really have a position.
It was bad. The End.
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I've always preferred
“hippy hash” at the Fleetwood in Ann Arbor.
I hear you, MFMP. I can’t defend drafting 5 SF’s in a row, even though Houston picked Budinger. My point remains that it is not accurate or fair to suggest that Jod selected 3 SF’s instead of Lawson. This is just not true. He picked one SF instead of Lawson. Now, we could argue all day whether Jod should have picked Daye over Lawson.
The reality is that the Summers and Jerebko picks have absolutely no bearing on the Daye/Lawson debate. Lawson was gone way before Jod picked those guys. I think it is also accurate to point out that Jod did not believe he would be drafting Summers or Jerebko when he picked Daye. He picked them because he had them ranked much higher and felt he was getting the best value on the board.
I’m not saying I argree with Jod’s draft, although I don’t think it was a terrible draft, either. I’m just trying to keep a little persective on it, that’s all.
My point remains that it is not accurate or fair to suggest that Jod selected 3 SF’s instead of Lawson
I didn’t hear anyone make the argument as you’ve phrased it. The argument has been that we drafted 3 SFs in one draft when we needed a PG in a draft that was rich with PGs.
And again, that’s not revisionist history. Strong arguments were being made for Lawson (or Blair) in the 1st. No one saw a SF pick coming.
I’m not saying I argree with Jod’s draft, although I don’t think it was a terrible draft, either. I’m just trying to keep a little persective on it, that’s all.
I’m with you, I think. Daye is showing flashes of marked improved this summer and could pan out into a rotation player to starter, and JJ’s already there. Anytime you get two rotation pieces in one draft, that’s a huge plus. Of course, that’s mitigated by the fact that they play the same position… but again, that’s fried hash at this point.
And that we publicly announce that we need to upgrade at the Point after drafting 3 SFs the year before and passing on Lawson while doing so.
This is the comment that motivated me to try and put a little perspective on the draft. I do not believe it is a fair or accurate comment. It would be technically true to write “Jod picked three SF’s and no PG’s in the 2009 draft”. However, that also doesn’t tell the story.
What you wrote is not correct since it clearly says Jod passed on Lawson while picking 3 SF’s. It might seem like semantics, but I think it goes to a point of view that many on this site share.
That point view is basically “why in the world would Jod draft three SF’s when we clearly needed a PG and there were PG’s to be had”. It is a valid argument, to a point. One should consider the context of the draft, though. The context is Jod picked Daye over Lawson. Lawson was not available at any other pick Jod had in the draft.
The context is Jod picked Daye over Lawson. Lawson was not available at any other pick Jod had in the draft.
I’m fine with that context. I do understand it.
I do not think it makes anything less perplexing, though. In both 2009 and 2010 drafts, we have had very clear team needs — PG and Big Men.
Only 1 of 6 potential picks addressed those needs. I just don’t see how the context — and I agree with how you’ve presented it — justifies that.
to be honest
I don’t think anyone would care that joe didn’t draft a 1 or 5 had he actually gotten the best player available. If we had come out with guys that can actually play 20 minutes a game, I feel that people would be harping on him a lot less.
The thing that bothers me about the picks isn’t that he drafted 5 SF in a row, it’s that many of the those picks were required him to make a stretch and pass up on other talent.
For instance, Walter Sharpe over Jordan in a time that we didn’t necessarily need a center, but it would have been good to have a future replacement. Had Sharpe panned out and turned into some star, no one would be complaining. But he didn’t – and was out of the league after one year. I think that’s what bothers people the most, not the fact that he ignored our needs, but didn’t even get the best talent available.
I feel that Monroe, White and JJ are the only times that he didn’t make an absurd leap for a player, and you could still argue that while White shows that he is a promising player, Joe should have taken a risk on a center prospect instead that may not be as talented but filled a need more so.
Just an opinion, but I do feel that a lot of the frustrations has to do more with not getting any useful talent rather than passing up on our needs. I will defend management if they pass up on needs to get the best player available; however I will not stand for passing up on needs to make sketchy picks that end up completely failing.
by bearded thundar on Jul 13, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that’s what bothers people the most, not the fact that he ignored our needs, but didn’t even get the best talent available.
I can’t speak to the frustrations of others, but IMO, it appears to me that Jod thinks he’s drafting the best player that is available.
How else can you explain the White and Summers picks?
that was exactly my point
He’s trying to draft the best player available, and I wouldn’t have a problem with that except many times they aren’t even close to being the best player available.
However I do think White would have been regarded as an excellent pick in just about any other draft that wasn’t littered with center prospects. He definitely had the most talent out of any one on the board except for perhaps Carrecter (surprised he fell that far) or Varnado. It’s just that Monroe flat out is playing out of position at the 5 and that we could have gotten a very good one that bothers me.
by bearded thundar on Jul 13, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
My point remains that it is not accurate or fair to suggest that Jod selected 3 SF’s instead of Lawson.
Did I ever suggest that? Also, it’s tough to say that, above, and this, below, at the same time.
My point is simply that Jod didn’t know he would get Jerebko and Summers when he passed on Lawson.
What you’re suggesting here is that the ability to get SFs like Jerebko and Summers late in the draft played a part in Joe’s decision to draft Daye. Which could suggest that we ended up drafting 3 SFs instead of Lawson.
Again, I’m not saying that— but between the lines, you’ve kind of intimated that.
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Did I ever suggest that?
No, you didn’t. But, you replied to my response to Gulker and Gulker clearly suggested that. Actually, he wrote exactly that. That is what motivated to comment in the first place.
What you’re suggesting here is that the ability to get SFs like Jerebko and Summers late in the draft played a part in Joe’s decision to draft Daye.
No, I’m not. I don’t know if it did or didn’t. I was simply adding factual perspective to the discussion. Jod didn’t go into the draft thinking that he would draft Daye, Jerebko, and Summers. When he picked Daye over Lawson, he still didn’t think he would be drafting Jerebko or Summers. This fact adds contextual perspective to the point that Jod drafted three SF’s and not Lawson.
My point remains that it is not accurate or fair to suggest that Jod selected 3 SF’s instead of Lawson
Based on the one comment I made above, it might be possible to come to that conclusions… but context for the win!
So for the sake of conversation, let’s ignore my fleeting comment above.
Going into the 2009 draft, we had two obvious team needs: A facilitator (typically, a PG) and interior defense and rebounding (post scoring would have been a great bonus).
There were players available in the 1st round that would have addressed either of those very well. Instead, we got Daye, who may very well become a solid NBA player. If we move Tay, and if Daye improves, that pick will be justified, without question.
Let’s just forget about the 2nd round of 2009. I love Jerebko, and that’s all I can bear to say about that at this point.
The 2010 draft rolls around, and what do you know, our team has the same glaring roster holes. Joe has noticed this and announces that he’s looking to upgrade at the point. Which is puzzling precisely because of how rich the 2009 draft class was at PG — don’t you think?
In that context, I’m not arguing we picked 3 SFs over Lawson. Obviously we didn’t. My comment above was much more rhetorical than literal. What I am trying to point out, though, is that Joe’s draft picks are puzzling when considered against team needs.
We can nitpick the rest of it all day if you want, but I think we pretty much agree with the italics above. Agreed?
Yes
I agree with this entire comment.
It is the rhetorical inaccuracies that get me a little riled up. We’re not breaking up, but I’ll still say it. “It’s not you, it’s me.”
As I wrote before, I wouldn’t have taken Daye either but I do think he’s showing significant improvement .
I just looked at the 2009 draft again. I’m not convinced Daye won’t end up justifying the pick. There will, of course, be players taken later that turn out better as there are in every draft, but I really only see a couple.
As for the 2nd round, Blair is about the only player Jod passed on who has even come close to proving he is a NBA player who also fits the needs you accurately described.
Puzzling, yes. Great, no. Good, maybe. Bad, maybe. Terrible, no.
No we couldn't have
Minny got the Bobcat’s first round pick from Denver. It was top twelve protected in 2010 (they got the 16th pick) with declining protections after that.
At the time of the trade the Bobcats looked to be out of the playoffs for the foreseeable future, meaning that eventually the pick could turn out to be a very high one. The Bobcats improved, but No. 16 isn’t too shaby.
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