More Free Agency Grades
by Kevin Sawyer on Jul 14, 2010 5:05 PM EDT
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PrintThe signings! They are everywhere!!! Time to see who won and who lost.
Oh, and can we just agree that the Heat earn an 'A' for the LeBoWa heist? I don't need to explain that one, do I?
Ben Wallace - PF/C
Pistons: 2 yrs. $3.8M
Grade: A
Wallace resisted the temptation to go to the dark side. When was the last time a team was able to re-sign it's best player for under $2M per? Big Ben clearly has plenty in the tank, so Detroit should see an excellent return on investment.
Amare Stoudemire - C
Knicks: 5 yrs. $100M
Grade: B-
I'm bipolar on this signing. On one hand, Stoudemire has not performed like a superstar on offense, has knee and eye issues, and is a mediocre defender. On the other hand, the Knicks seem to be putting the right pieces around him, and he was an absolute beast when he last played for D'Antoni (and this was after microfracture surgery).
Under D'Antoni, his WS/48 was .262, with a PER of 27.6. Last year, he posted .181 and 22.6 respectively. Is his eye bothering him that much? If we split the difference (.222 and 25.1), that's a superstar performance. Either way, the back end of the contract is ugly, but I think the Knicks had to make this move.
David Lee - PF/C
Knicks Sign and Trade to Warriors: 6 yrs. $80 Million
Knicks receive Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf and Kelenna Azubuike from Golden St.
Knicks Grade: A-
Warriors Grade: C-
The Knicks had little use for David Lee, and dodged a bit of a bullet with this contract. The Knicks needed to fill holes, and did so cheaply. Turiaf is a solid value as an energy guy for $4 million. Azabuike should thrive under D'Antoni, and if he doesn't, his contract expires. Randolph is already productive, and is young enough that he could emerge into a star.
Yes, Donnie Walsh whiffed on his bid for LeBron, but the Knicks are in a much better position now than they were when he took over, and without sacrificing financial flexibility.
Raymond Felton - PG
Knicks: 2 yrs. $15.8M
Grade: B
I may be the only person who likes the Knicks' offseason moves. Felton finally stopped trying to do too much last season, and had the most efficient campaign of his career. Was it a fluke? Maybe, but a two-year contract is a relatively benign way to find out, and his box score stats were going to net him at least the MLE. Incidentally, Felton is going to be THE sleeper pick in fantasy basketball this year.
Timofey Mozgov - C
Knicks: 3 yrs. $10M
Grade: B
I do not know who this guy is, but he's rated well among Euros, and the Knicks need size. Beats signing Johan Petro.
Dorell Wright - GF
Warriors: 3 yrs. $11M
Grade: A-
Wright quietly had a breakout season, and has turned into a lockdown defender with a nice shooting touch. That means the Warriors got something rightThis signing reminds me of a bachelor party in Vegas. The man of the hour is wasted, pissing away money at the blackjack tables, and everyone is kinda depressed, until he remembers he randomly put down $100 on some 16 to 1 UFC match ten hours ago and suddenly he's up $500 for the day.
Prediction: Wright will play like 22 games while some former 2nd round draft pick from Zimbabwe clocks 38 mpg.
Ray Allen - SG
Celtics: 2 Yrs. $20 Million
Grade: C+
Allen gamed the system pretty well here. At most, he's worth the MLE, but once the Celtics signed Pierce, he played hardball. If the C's held out to save a few million, they risked losing him, and they can't compete for a championship next year without him. While the cash may be excessive, the length is obviously reasonable. Not sure Boston had a choice.
Jermaine O'Neal - PF/C
Celtics: 2 yrs. MLE
Grade: A
Faced with an injured Kendrick Perkins and a retiring Rasheed Wallace, the Celts make excellent use of their MLE in acquiring O'Neal. O'Neal is no longer a star in this league (and maybe never was), but he isn't washed up either. He'll give them real minutes, with scoring and shot-blocking from the center position, and you can't beat the contract length.
Carlos Boozer - PF
Bulls: MAX
Grade: B
In the world of consolation prizes, Boozer is a better pickup than Travis Outlaw. Boozer should compliment Joakim Noah quite nicely in the front court, and add several wins to the season total. The problem is that this moves the Bulls into "win-now" territory, which necessitates overspending on role players. Not that this would be anything new for the Bulls. Just ask Kirk Hinrich and Luol Deng.
Or, you can ask...
Kyle Korver - SG
Bulls: 3 yrs. $15 million
Grade: C
Don't get me wrong. The Bulls paid market rate for a skilled player, and they had to do something about the two slot. I hear the argument. Korver is a long range threat who takes the pressure off Derrick Rose. I hear it. I just don't buy it.
Great Point Guards (Paul, Billups and Nash in particular) use their OWN long range threat to create space between them and their defender. Others (Parker, Rondo) simply blow by them. By pairing an offensive focal point with another one-dimensional player, you are basically using two players to do the job of one.
Chris Duhon - PG
Magic: 4 yrs $15 million
Grade: F
A few months ago, I was tinkering with a "worst players in the NBA" post. I scrapped the idea, because who wants to read a post slamming a bunch of guys like Chris Duhon? Duhon is a decent defender, but he has no skill on offense. Suffices to say, $3.75M per is not the going rate for 15 mpg of decent defense. The Magic have been inexplicably enamored of Duhon for quite some time. Well, now they have him.
Quentin Richardson - GF
Magic: 3 yrs. $8M
Grade: C+
This is kind of a "fit" signing. Richardson's game should mesh well with the Magic, but in terms of raw talent, they're overpaying a tad. If this means Matt Barnes is gone, you have to question the wisdom. Methinks the Magic are getting a bit desperate...
Randy Foye - SG
Clippers: 2 yrs. $8.5 million
Grade: C+
If we apply a premium to two year contracts, this isn't a terrible deal. With Griffin back, the Clippers probably feel like they have a shot at the playoffs, and rounding out the roster is important. Still, Foye just isn't very good, and he likes to dominate the ball.
Ryan Gomes - SF
Clippers: 3 yrs. $12 million
Grade: C-
If we apply a premium to two year contracts, this isn't a very good deal. At a certain point, why don't you take a flier on some NBDL talent, or a talented headcase, rather than springing for a known mediocrity? I like this quote from Gomes: "I was courted by a lot of teams and I had to weigh my options." Sure you were, buddy.
Brian Cook - F
Clippers: 2 yrs. $2.6M
Grade: F
When I was young, my mom collected knick-knacks. Cookie jars, figurines. All that crap. One day, she came home with some absurd vase. My dad asked why she bought it. She said it only cost a few dollars. "It's still ugly," he responded. They got in a really huge fight when my mom took the Clippers GM job without consulting him first.
Brendan Haywood - C
Mavs: 6 yrs. $55 million
Grade: D
We knew this was coming after the flurry of activity on the first day. It's one thing to overpay for a big in a seller's market. It's another thing to commit to a full six years, which no other team could offer, and which will preclude the Mavs from exploiting a buyer's market years down the road. The Mavs avoid the F because they are in a position to compete for a championship, and because someone was going to offer something ridiculous to Haywood.
Ian Mahinmi - C
Mavs: 2 yrs. $4M
Grade: A
Sneaky little pickup for the Mavericks. Mahinmi has been extraordinarily effective in very limited minutes as a pro, and destroyed the NBDL in his only full season. Why is this guy not getting Johan Petro money?
Tony Allen - SG
Grizzlies: 3 yrs. $9M (Approx.)
Grade: B+
Nice cheap pickup for the Grizzlies. Allen's injury history meant the Celtics had to look elsewhere for a backup, but he's solid on both ends of the floor, which is tough to find in this price range.
Matt Bonner - PF
Spurs: 4 yrs. $16M
Grade: B-
The sandwich king cashes in. The Spurs offense requires a three-point specialist, and that is certainly what Bonner is. I think it's a couple million too much, but what do I know?
Tiago Splitter - C
Spurs: 3 yrs. $11M
Grade: A
By all accounts, this guy is the real deal, a rich man's Anderson Varejao. If that's the case, the Spurs made out like bandits, and we can only expect more teams to draft international "stash" talent.
Jordan Farmar - PG
Nets: 3 yrs. $12M
Grade: C+
You know free agency has gone mad when people are seriously interested in where players like Farmar end up. Some think Farmar has the potential to be good, and he's young enough that there is a bit of room for improvement. Is that worth $12M for a team that needs to dig itself out of a major hole? I don't think so.
Travis Outlaw
Nets: 5 yrs. $34M
Grade: C+
The Nets had to do something, and they are getting an average player for the MLE. Outlaw is young enough to eat up big minutes, and might improve slightly with the added playing time. That's about as much enthusiasm as I can muster.
Johan Petro - C
Nets: 3 yrs. $10M
Grade: D+
Here's what you need to know about Petro. He's a defensive stopper who the Thunder, the team that values defensive players more than any other, traded to the Nuggets for Chucky Atkins. He is, however, relatively young, and very tall. He also has negative offensive win shares for his career.
Anthony Morrow - SG
Nets: 3 yrs. $12M
Grade: B
The Nets are stockpiling so many average talents, they'll probably wind up with 30 wins by default. Enjoy the ninth pick next year, Nets fans. Morrow is a heck of a shooter, and this is a sensible contract, so it's probably a bit unfair to reserve my snark for his synopsis.
Derek Fisher - PG
Lakers: 3 yrs. $10.5M
Grade: D
This is what happens when star players start making roster decisions. Remember when Kevin Garnett demanded the team sign Mark Madsen to a long term deal? This never works out well. The Heat dodged a bullet here.
Al Harrington - PF
Nuggets: 5 yrs. $34M
Grade: C-
A chink in the armor for a team that usually makes solid decisions. Denver has been desperate for another big to fill in for Kenyon Martin, but this is an expensive and mediocre way to do it, even if the last two years are only partially guaranteed. Harrington scores a lot, but only because he also shoots a lot. He also doesn't play defense. Teams tend to panic when their window is closing, and this is a panic move.
Shelden Williams - F
Nuggets: 1 yr. Min.
Grade: B+
As insurance policies go, Williams is affordable and dependable. One of the biggest lottery busts in league history, he was very effective in spot duty for the Celtics. He's unlikely to repeat his .612 TS%, but their not paying him that kind of money anyway.
Udonis Haslem - PF
Heat: 5 yrs. $20M
Grade: A
Haslem is leaving just as much money on the table to play in Miami as are the big three. He would have had numerous offers for the MLE, and decided to stay at home. Any way you slice it, Miami got a great deal here, and a huge break.
Mike Miller - SF
Heat: 5 yrs. $30M
Grade: B
By the standards of this insane free agent market, this is a great deal. My only qualm is that, if the idea is to get a three point shooter to take the pressure off the superstars, how does it work when he plays the same position? Maybe LeBron will come off the bench to free up some minutes for Miller and Wade to play together.
Zydrunas Ilgauskas - C
Heat: 2 yrs. $(notverymuch)M
Grade: A
Big Z had a terrible season, and was no small part of Cleveland's playoff collapse with his .419 TS%. But Ilgauskas is only one year removed from an excellent eight-year run, he's still gigantic, and he's secretly developing a three point shot. The Miami apocalypse scenario is starting to take shape.
Luther Head - PG
Hornets: 2 yrs. $2.5M
Grade: B
After a solid start in Houston, Head's career went off the rails. If he can stay healthy, he could be a nice bargain at this price. He's young enough to bounce back, and the Hornets need cheap players.
Tyrus Thomas - PF
Bobcats: 5 yrs. $40M
Grade: C
This is too much time and too much money to commit to a player with limited offensive skills and a bad attitude. He will continue to be productive under Larry Brown, but when Brown is gone (which could be next season) what happens? He's young, but his performance has been remarkably consistent from year to year, which makes a major improvement unlikely.
Josh Childress - GF
Suns: 5 yrs. $34M
Grade: A-
The darling of metrics people is now one of the free agent bargains of the summer. I have a couple of minor concerns. First, they'll be paying a player who relies on athleticism into his 30s. Second, there could be an adjustment period after a season of playing Euro-ball. Still, if the goal is to maximize the Steve Nash window, the Suns couldn't have done much better.
Linas Kleiza - SF
Raptors: 4 yrs. $18.8M
Grade: B
I think this guy is pretty overrated, so I expect he'd get the full MLE. At this price, it's not a bad signing, especially for a team in desperate need of defense.
Kyle Lowry - SG
Cavs: 4 yrs. $24M
Grade: B
See? Everything turned out alright for Cleveland after all.
(edit: never mind, looks like LeBron might be first to a championship after all)
Luke Ridnour - PG
Timberwolves: 4 yrs. $16M
Grade: D
Beyond. Parody. For the record, in spite of my residence in Minnesota, my kids will be Pistons fans. I'm not even sure I'll even tell them about the T-Wolves. When the Pistons are in town, I'll pretend it's an exhibition, like the Wolves are the Washington Generals.
Open question, did David Kahn sign Ridnour because he's a point guard, or because he's white?
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David Lee for $13.3M/yr
got a C- from you?
a 20 and 11 guy, whose 3-and-a-half assists per game make him the 2nd best passing big in the game… Was that a typo?
witty signature
Hate it for the Warriors
They already have Biedrins, and they are limited in their ability to put pieces around Lee. I also don’t think he’ll be as productive outside of that system.
by Kevin Sawyer on Jul 14, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
What does having Biedrins have to do with it?
He’s an elite rebounder and an above-average defender without much of an offensive game. Doesn’t it make more sense to get a guy like Lee to compliment him?
Also, interesting fact about Lee: He has beaten James White in a dunk contest. He was pretty awesome, too.
"Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans."
-ralphgoblue/thunder_god08
by Thom_not_Tom on Jul 14, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, that "system guy" argument is BULLSHIT
Lee is an elite pick-and-roll guy who was putting up 20 ppg without any kind of decent point guard playing with him. He’s incredibly efficient, as well as incredibly skilled (that passing ability will translate wherever he goes). His numbers per minute pre-D’antoni were very similar to what he’s done with extended PT, and that’s without the consistent jumper he’s developed. Kelly Dwyer always gets pissed at people who make that argument, and I couldn’t agree more.
The Lee trade gets an A for both sides as far as I’m concerned. New York got some solid talent in return for a guy they weren’t going to keep, and Golden State got an elite Power Forward. Win-win.
"Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans."
-ralphgoblue/thunder_god08
by Thom_not_Tom on Jul 14, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
In short, what Thom_not_Tom said (MFBOOM)
with the addition that Biedrins can’t stay on the court due to foul trouble, and hasn’t established himself as the de facto starting center in Golden State. If things don’t work out behind or next to Lee, Biedrins will likely be on the block by February.
And the “system” argument, like TNT said, is ridiculous. Most of the arguments for how a player like Lee benefits from D’Anotoni’s “system” is related to pace. D’Antoni’s Knicks were 9th in the league in terms of pace factor. The number one team? The Golden State Warriors. So if you are trying to make the argument that the pace under D’Antoni boosted Lee’s numbers, that rationale would suggest an even greater boost in production under Don Nelson.
My grade for the Davide Lee sign/trade to Golden State? A+++
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It's more than pace
He is also known as a pick n’ roll coach. Nelson, nowadays isn’t known as any sort of coach. I don’t see Lee getting to 20 ppg for the Warriors.
by Kevin Sawyer on Jul 14, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
He is also known as a pick n’ roll coach.
And GS just shipped out Ellis to put more of a focus on Curry, a pick-and-roll specialist who has said it’s the team’s “best offense” as opposed to the penetrate style of Ellis. Additionally, Nelson publicly complained about Biedrins failing the pick-and-roll. I’d say it’s quite safe to see Golden State playing the pick and roll style we saw in New York with Curry and Lee.
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Yeah and Biedrins is supposedly on the trading block right now...
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
If they can re-orient their roster around Lee
The grade goes up. Right now, it seems like the Warriors are throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks.
by Kevin Sawyer on Jul 14, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, GSW seem to be trying something new here.
Clearing out their lesser contracts (Ellis, Maggette).
Bringing in actual big men (Udoh, Lee).
Are they actually being… competent?
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 14, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
They gave up three assets to get Lee
All of which were reasonably priced. They drafted abysmally. Do they have a buyer for Ellis? If so, that changes things. Right now, they have a bad, expensive team with limited young assets. There were a lot of teams for whom overpaying slightly for David Lee would have made a lot of sense. This isn’t one of them.
by Kevin Sawyer on Jul 14, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
overpaying slightly for David Lee
Chris Kaman: $11.3 million
Samuel Dalembert: $12.2 million
Tyson Chandler: $12.75 million
Erick Dampier: $13.1 million
Only one of those guys is a top 30 center in terms of PER (Kaman, at number 20)— Lee being number 4 according to Your Favorite Stat. The concept of pricing is generally relative to market price of similar values. To that extent, David Lee is nowhere near “overpriced”, even slightly.
$13.3 million for a 20/12 guy, the best passing center in the league and one of the most durable (81 games a year for three years straight) at his position). He’s built for the fastest-pace-in-the-league Warriors who are hoping to focus on pick-and-roll offense.
Right now, they have a bad, expensive team with limited young assets.
As for “limited young assets”, Stephen Curry is going to be un-fucking-real in this league. While Brandon Right was injured last year, he promises to be a solid young player. To me, both are young and neither are limited.
As for “expensive”, they’ve got $15 million expiring in 2011, a very moveable asset in Andris Biedrins, leaving their only real clusterfuck in Monta the Moped. He’s expensive. Not Ben Gordon / Rip Hamilton expensive, but expensive still.
Last, as for “bad”, a lineup of Curry/Ellis/Wright/Wright/Lee is scarier than our own lineup, especially if Dorell can keep his 3-pointers near 40%.
That said, I think the inability to keep EITHER azubuike or morrow is downright criminal.
But my point at it’s core— it’s not accurate or plausible to suggest they overpaid for David Lee in this market, nor is it logical to suggest that we’ll see a significant regression in Lee due to the new “system”.
witty signature
by Mike Payne on Jul 14, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I meant overpaid
Vs. contribution. Yes, the market price for centers is absurd.
I guess I just see him coming closer to 15 and 10 than 20 and 12. We’ll see what happens, there.
by Kevin Sawyer on Jul 14, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
$13.3 million for a 20/12 guy, the best passing center in the league
you mean other than greg monroe right?
Or...
Biedrins, Ben Wallace, Ronny Turiaf, Tim Duncan, Boris Diaw, Marcus Camby, Pau Gasol…
by Kevin Sawyer on Jul 15, 2010 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions
okay
overpaid in terms of your expectations of production. cant’ dispute that, even though I dispute your expectations. that’s fair though
witty signature
Let me ask you this
If he gets 20 and 12 this season, playing 70 games, do you think the Warriors win 43 games? I don’t.
by Kevin Sawyer on Jul 15, 2010 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
If David Lee records 20 and 12 this season, playing 70 games, it will not be on him if they don’t win 43 games. This isn’t an “okay our roster is now complete” signing, it is a signing showing “we’ve now got two potential top five pieces at their position, one move and we’ll go from playoff dark horse to sure thing post season team”. I only wish the Pistons could be so lucky.
Think about it, you’ve got a potentially top 5 point guard and a potentially top 5 center for $16M/yr. You’ve got a load of expirings in 2011. Your only tough contract is Monta Ellis.
I am not seeing any justifiable logic on your part.
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wrecked
A bad argument from Kevin, you did. No offense, Kevin. I love your stuff, but you’re just wrong about Lee.
I can’t think of any scenario ever where signing a legitimate 20 and 10 player to a contract of that length and cost is a bad thing. As if a team can have too many of those types of players? Or as if those types of players grow on trees?
If you had to guess, how many 20 and 10 players actually played in the NBA last season?
The question
Is whether he really is a legitimate 20-10. As in, could he go to most teams and deliver that level of production? I don’t think he can for a team that ranks in the top 15 in rebounding rate. Part of that is because he was only 18th in the league in rebounding rate himself.
Zach Randolph was a legitimate 20-10. He earned rebounds for his team, and converted many of them into points that would not have been scored. Golden State now has two players whose past rebounding numbers do not, IMO, overestimate their ability.
If he goes over there and turns the front-line around, I’ll admit I was wrong. I also admit that the advanced stats say Lee is a borderline-max player. I think there is a soft-spot there.
by Kevin Sawyer on Jul 15, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
could he go to most teams and deliver that level of production? I don’t think he can for a team that ranks in the top 15 in rebounding rate.
He’s going to the worst team in the league in terms of rebounding rate. You’re rating this signing as a C+, now suggesting that he’d rebound better on a poor rebounding team. He’s going to the poorest rebounding team in the entire league. Doesn’t that make him even better of a fit, assuming your reasoning is sound?
The question is whether he really is a legitimate 20-10
He’s not. He’s a legitimate 20-12-4. That’s what he recorded last season, on the same team with the same coach from the season prior where he recorded 16-12. In one season, he added 4 more attempts per game, maintained the same efficiency and extended his range from 10’ to 20’.
I think there is a soft-spot there.
I think there is a soft spot in your opinion of the guy. Hey, that’s totally fair— this is a league where some fans just don’t like some players, and love others with very little evidential bearing. That I can completely understand.
But your analysis of Lee and his fit in Golden State was misinformed/misguided to start, and now you’re honestly reaching (and contradicting yourself) to try and justify it.
witty signature
I like Lee
I just think he’s worth $10M per year for 4-5 years. That’s “like him” money. $13M for six years is “love him” money. Three players + $13M per year is “franchise cornerstone” money.
Doesn’t that make him even better of a fit, assuming your reasoning is sound?
No. I don’ think he is an elite rebounder. Second, I think there is a lot of redundancy between him and Biedrins. If I were Golden State, I would invest in a defensive-minded big who could take the pressure off Biedrins to reduce his foul rate to the point where he can play 34 mpg.
They are not exactly the same player, of course, but I don’t think you can play these guys together and win a lot of ball games. What’s seems likely to happen is that GS is going to trade Biedrins at the worst possible time, OR reduce his minutes to about 18-20 per.
Given that they already had to give up Randolph, as well as Turiaf and Azubuike, I don’t see how the overall addition makes this team much better. Based on win shares, and factoring in the replacements for those three, there is no improvement unless you can get Biedrins back to 30 mpg. Based on PER, the story is even worse.
by Kevin Sawyer on Jul 16, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Super Lee
David Lee still had to get up and down the court regarless or rebounds per, minutes played or any other stat. The guy has a motor.
Two back to back years with 11.7 rpg in any system means you are among the best rebounders in the league.
Favre's ankle, Starcaps BS and hopefully a busy Piston offseason, oh my. Go Netherlands/Holland/Dutch Soccer(no its not Football)! Also, Lesnar, Lesnar, Lesnar!!!!!!!
I was
“just wowing” Kevin’s assertion that signing David Lee to an incredibly fair contract is “throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks”. That’s insane.
witty signature
when he is a 20-10 guy but plays matador defense...
as we knicks fans said in posting and toasting he makes amar’e look like bill russell take that and analyze if you will i wonder if a starting big man is worth the money when he averages .4 blocks per game
I loves me some David Lee on any team. I’m a fan.
by garrettelliott on Jul 14, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m a little disappointed no one got a dick-minus.
by TDP on Jul 14, 2010 5:28 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
I think you got it backwards.
I think the Warriors deserve an A- for getting Lee and the Knicks get a C- for signing Amar’e. Is Amar’e even better than Lee at this point?
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 14, 2010 5:35 PM EDT reply actions
Unless you're like Warrior fans and really, really, really high on Randolph.
aka Magic Johnson 2.0.
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 14, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
2yrs/4mil for Mahinmi
I wish the Pistons would have jumped on that. Talk about a low risk/high reward signing.
The Mavericks have Haywood, Chandler and Mahinmi.
Apparently, Mark Cuban thinks that the Lakers are the team to beat.
Kyle Lowry is a better player than CV
And Houston with a healthy Yao is actually a really intriguing contender. Matching for a defender like Lowry — especially with Aaron Brook’s defensive inadequacies — makes a whole lot of sense.
"Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans."
-ralphgoblue/thunder_god08
by Thom_not_Tom on Jul 14, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
expanded argument, will bynum’s raw stats were more impressive than lowry’s last year, and bynum was on hobbled ankles. defensively, you might have something of an argument, but both are backup point guards. I can’t speak to advanced statistics like BT, but I’d call bynum a superior player, and there’s no way I would possibly give him 3 years and 24 million. ever.
If bynum gets the contract I expect (something like 2 years, 6 million) then lowry is making 5 million more per year only because he’s a plus defender. not worth it
From what I’ve seen, It’s 4 years / 24 million, the 4th year being a team option.
Lowry is also 4 years younger than Bynum, and while they bring a lot of the same things to the table overall, Lowry is a more efficient scorer and better rebounder— so he’s a lot younger and already a slightly better player.
Unreal how under-appreciated David Lee. C-? Really?
by brgulker on Jul 14, 2010 6:07 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yep
I would add that I don’t trust huge rebounding numbers from guys on poor rebounding teams. Of course, he’s going from one terrible rebounding team to another, so the gaudy stats may remain intact. I don’t think he’s a good fit. I don’t think he’s going to put wins on the board, and I think his stats are inflated.
by Kevin Sawyer on Jul 14, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Lee is a year younger and less of an injury risk and comparing their career stats and last seasons stats, it’s clear Lee is closing the gap in scoring ability.
not to mention
$6.5 million a year cheaper. David Lee, his durability, production and contract are >>>>>>>>> Amare Stoudamire.
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again as a knicks fan...
yes we give up a bit of rebounding but for david lee come on he plays matador d, and amare outside of the freak eye injury has played loads of games including all 82 games last year. he hasn’t missed a beat yet. then again if you value david lee for only what you see while we scratch our heads for david’s incompetent d. and tell me how many playoff games has david played? i think david lee is overpriced for what he is
You’re entitled to think that all you want. But when called to support it with an argument, you’ve offered sqadoosh. As a general rule, really good rebounders tend to be really good, even when teams and/or teammates change. I’ve seen precisely nothing from Lee that suggests he will be the exception to the rule.
Ray Allen is hellaold, and he’s getting 2 years, 20 million. You give that a C+. And if you want to talk inflated stats, maybe we could discuss Amare and the number of high percentage field goal attempts that were spoon fed to him by Steve Nash, or the fact that he has NEVER averaged more than 9 rebounds per game on a team that isn’t exactly known for its rebounding. You gave that signing a B-./strong>
As I said above, I enjoy your shtick (here and on your blog). You’re a really good and entertaining writer. But you’re rightly being called out for a horse crap argument, and you haven’t offered a shred of evidence to support it.
If I were a betting man, I wouldn’t hesitate to wager with you that Golden State >>>> New York this season, and a large part of it will be David Lee’s superiority to Amare Stoudamire.
Off topic, but necessary. I just want to say hello to everyone and to have a good day
This is my sig, what do I do with it?
by dubzfan on Jul 14, 2010 6:09 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Yeah, those commercials are great
He’s actually made a bunch of great youtube videos responding to random commenters, people on twitter, the guy that writes for videogum (which you should all read), and the actor that plays him.
"Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans."
-ralphgoblue/thunder_god08
by Thom_not_Tom on Jul 14, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
dubzfan
DBB’s greatest guest commenter. Dude is a season away from getting his very own MF next to his name.
rec’d, btw!
witty signature
" Dude is a season away from getting his very own MF next to his name"
This is my sig, what do I do with it?
i bet they’re better than the wizards, who aren’t doing anything outside of getting Arenas back and adding Wall.
it just now hit me
how terrible the Cavs will be:
Mo Williams
A. Parker
Jamison
Varejao
and…
Hickson?
Damn. Sucks to be them.
just EPINION
thing is
I can see Blatche and McGee taking a healthy step forward this year, even beyond the help that Wall might bring to their games if the Hype Machine is right.
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i don't know about blatche
but i watched the wash/gs game and it seemed wall and mcgee had already drummed up some chemistry. wall oop to mcgee might be a sportcenter fav next year.
by Roll The Dyess on Jul 14, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I really like Blatche's abilities
It’s more of a question about effort than talent or athleticism. Would have been really nice if the Pistons drafted him, though it would have been at the cost of Maxiell. He went in the 2005 draft, meaning we were heading into head stomp the league mode, so I don’t think it would have really mattered at the time whether we had Maxy or Blatche as both would have just sat on the bench all game long.
Hard to tell who’s the better player right now. Maxiell is probably more productive on a daily basis, but last year Blatche started flirting with 20, 10 games quite a bit after Jamison was traded.
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Jul 15, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Blatche is more talented than Maxiell
But he’s a pretty big head case, if I’m correct in my assumptions. Flip Saunders pulled him out of the game last year for some reason and he refused to come off of the bench one game. Maybe it’s just where he’s playing at, but I’m pretty sure he’s a difficult guy, but I have a soft spot for difficult guys in the NBA coming from my love of Sheed, so I don’t have a problem with him. Plus, he was a monster in fantasy basketball last half of the season.
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 15, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
that's what I'm saying
Blatche is tremendously talented, but I’m not sure who is actually the more useful player between him and Maxiell because Maxy grinds the other team’s nuts off where as Blatche basically sometimes doesn’t bother change into his uniform
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Jul 15, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh
If I was Washington, I’d probably prefer have Blatche. Blatche could legitimately be a star. For a young core, you could do way worse than Wall, Mcgee, and Blatche.
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 15, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Few Things
First off,man are team over paying for average, old players.
In a way I’m sorta glad the Pistons can’t spend too much.
The Ben Wallace deal is awesome IMO. If there is anyone that can teach players how to play defense, its Wallace. The man relies purely on his hops, technique and heart. I hope he teaches Greg Monroe a thing or two.
The beginning of the end of the misery
Oh and the Rockets matched Lowry offer
Cavs can’t get shit this offseason…
The beginning of the end of the misery
don't blame them
IMO, Lowry is a better player than Brooks. He’s got a significantly better d-rating and his o-rating isn’t far behind, especially when you consider the difference in teammates. Net production wise, Houston actually does better per 100 possessions with Lowry than Brooks (which confuses me why they don’t switch their roles considering all of their simulations and MIT knowledge)
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Jul 15, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
And you thought people wouldn't find out Mike
Keith responded to your Sessions question
Mike (Tampa): Recently, it’s been rumored that Ramon Sessions is available. Earlier this year, reports suggested Joe Dumars was looking for an upgrade in the frontcourt and at the point. Sessions should absolutely be on the Pistons’ radar – do you think he might be?
Langlois: I don’t have any specific knowledge of their interest in Sessions, or in an "upgrade" at point guard, Mike. I know that was widely reported when the season ended and, as such, came to be accepted as fact. I don’t get the sense that adding a point guard (other than re-signing Will Bynum) is the priority of the off-season, though Joe D did say in our Q&A this week that signing a pure point guard to be the No. 3 is under consideration. Sessions, of course, is better than a No. 3 – and is paid like it. Adding a player of Sessions’ caliber, logically, would be part of a move (or after a move) that thins out their own backcourt. Between Hamilton, Gordon, Stuckey, Bynum (presumably) and White, the Pistons already will have a lot of roster spots and resources tied up in their backcourt. I do know that the Pistons thought well of Sessions heading into the 2007 draft, when he went 57th – one spot ahead of where the Pistons took Sammy Mejia. Of course, that was the draft where the Pistons took both Rodney Stuckey and Arron Afflalo, so they might not have gone for another guard at that spot, but they went into that draft with Sessions high on their list of second-round possibilities. He did have one magical night against the Pistons in the 2008-09 season while playing for Milwaukee. It was strange that Minnesota signed him to a fairly significant contract last summer and then didn’t seem to have much use for him last season. It’ll be interesting to see where he lands. A trade seems inevitable with Minnesota now having signed Luke Ridnour.
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Jul 15, 2010 5:02 PM EDT reply actions
FanShot that shit
was waiting to see if he’d answer, I wanted a response from the official mouthpiece!
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