What Can We Expect from T-Mac?
by Kevin Sawyer on Aug 10, 2010 3:34 PM EDT
in Detroit Pistons Previews
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PrintIt's official. In yet another victory in Joe Dumar's* battle to recreate all-star teams from the early aughts, he has signed none other than Tracy McGrady to a one year deal at the veteran's minimum.
This signing is intriguing, largely because the (modest) median expectation is not the likely result. Here's what we know about T-Mac.
-In 2003, at the age of 23, he was the best player in basketball. That year, he led the league in scoring, player efficiency rating, and wp48.
-He has failed to even approach this level of effectiveness in the years since. His propensity to shoot high volumes of three pointers, and relative ineptitude at same, conspired to limit his effectiveness.
-A combination of nebulous back injuries and diva issues conspired to limit his participation in the last two seasons to only 65 games.
-There is no precedent for a player who was once the best in basketball being washed up by the age of 31.
-After joining the Rockets, McGrady actually became a strong defender. Since the 2004-05 season, McGrady has more defensive win shares (18.5) than offensive (14.9).
From this, what can we project for this season? I mentioned that there is no precedent for a player going from the top of the league to washout, but one player came close.
Connie Hawkins was a versatile scorer, whose career was delayed by his (unjust) implication in a point shaving scandal. Upon arriving in the ABA at 25, after a stint with the Harlem Globetrotters, he immediately dominated, posting a player efficiency rating of 28.8 despite his relative weakness as a shooter.
By the time he arrived in Los Angeles at the age of 31, The Hawk was a shell of his former self (though he was still being voted into all-star games every year), having been limited by knee ailments.
He proved that he had something left in the tank, playing 35 mpg, becoming more of a playmaker on offense while still grabbing rebounds and improving his efficiency. He was above average at both ends of the court, posting a PER of 15.5 and a .128 wp48.
If T-Mac puts up those kinds of numbers, he'll win most improved player, and it certainly isn't outside of the realm of possibly for him to improve upon them. Heck, if he is able to give Detroit 60 games at 20 mpg at his production from two years ago, he will have added two wins to the total.
There are a few key obstacles that should temper our expectations.
The first is the alleged logjam on the wings. I say alleged because not one wing player managed to play even average basketball, much less stay healthy long enough to do so. A bunch of so-so, hobbled players does not a logjam make. Nonetheless, unless coach Kuester is willing to get creative in order to get more wins out of this ball club, McGrady will likely have to settle for 15-20 mpg even if he's outperforming the starting five.
The second is his diva complex. Let's face it, every superstar becomes a diva. The problem is that T-Mac hasn't had the output to match. He bristled at the suggestion of earning back his role in Houston after being racked by injuries. Speaking of which...
About those injuries. Now, back spasms are painful. They take you out of action for at least a week, if not a month. You cannot play through back spasms any more than you can play through an aardvark chewing on your testicles. But they do go away, and, with proper conditioning, can be made to disappear. They didn't disappear, and now McGrady is coming off major knee surgery.
Theoretically, McGrady is auditioning for a major contract, but if he was contemplating retirement weeks ago, will he be able to keep his focus long enough to secure that long-term deal?
Oh, and he'll still want to jack up three pointers.
On the flip side...
The team can't possibly be wedded to the notion that a Hamilton-Prince-Gordon ensemble is going to win basketball games. Otherwise, why even bother with T-Mac? McGrady can plug in easily at the two or the three, and can defend both positions quite well. Plus, if he begins to play well, and the Pistons aren't, the pressure to give him more minutes will be overwhelming. Again, lottery teams don't have logjams. They have holes.
Diva issues aside, McGrady is, by all accounts, a pretty good guy. He isn't a head case or a drug addict. He is also in a position where, suddenly, the money, the fame, the accolades, and the attention are gone. Chicago didn't work out. Heck, the Clippers didn't work out. Even a few months ago, he was talking about being a sought after free agent. Superstars might be divas, but they also have egos, and always have something to prove.
If he can get to the line and play defense, he has the chance to turn around his career. Detroit should give him every opportunity to do so.
If nothing else, having an aging superstar whose legacy is on the line gives us fans something to be excited about. It's like a movie, but at matinee pricing. Will this be an inspirational Dreamworks movie about talking dragons, or a gritty indie drama about meth tweakers? Will it be Hoosiers or Hoop Dreams? The Natural or Sugar?
Connie Hawkins or an Allen Iverson?
*As for me, I am declaring war on hanging apostrophes. Yes, I know his name is not Joe Dumar.
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agreed. I’ll take it one further. I prefer the threesome of Gordon/Rip/Tay at the 2-3 spots than T-Mac there. Though getting rid of Rip’s contract is the only thing I’m holding hopes onto, in which case a cheap T-Mac/Rip/Gordon threesome won’t be so bad. Oh right… we also have Day, Jerebko, and a poin t guard who often plays at the two in Stuckey. Logjam.
And it could be injury insurance.
The alternate opinion, beyond prepping for a trade, is he just got a back-up for two different positions for veteran’s minimum.
This Is Much Different Than The AI Deal
Just epinion only…but AI was clearly about the expiring contract, and not about anything else. If Dumars could get AI to be a team player, then, well that may have been a bonus. Dumar shipped Chauncey for one simple reason, he had gotten too complacent, he was happy with just one ring, the hunger had been gone, and frankly, you’ve seen not only more of the same in Denver, but some slippage in his game as well.
The odds are much better here…if TMac reprises his diva act, or the knee doesn’t hold up, you just cut him, no problem and you’re out the $1 M. I mean, why all this stressin’ over something you should be celebrating.
Very good GM move by Dumars.
I Agree
AI was projected to be Chauncy’s replacement, and so he was expected to have that sort of an impact. He replaced Billups and that’s why we saw it as a negative thing. With T-Mac’s signing, we’re not trading or replacing anyone. It just gives us another weapon in our arsenal. Who cares if he’s a shell of his former self…I’d take an all-star on my bench over what we didn’t have last year anytime. $1.3M is nothing…just cut him if he doesn’t perform. Although I highly, doubt that. T-Mac is looking for another good year or so before the wheels fall off his wagon. I’m sure he’d like to prove it somehow, and this stint with the Pistons might just be his opportunity.
Now, if we were trading Rip or Prince to make room for him…then that would be a totally different story…
Diva issues?
Buh?
Because I'm the Lynch... and I'm awwwesome!
by Terrence J. Lynch on Aug 10, 2010 3:55 PM EDT reply actions
Meaning he can be a diva
Not that he has some ongoing spat with Mariah Carey.
by Kevin Sawyer on Aug 10, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
1.3mill is nothing in the NBA.
So Joe D definetly got something.
Favre, even your agent has had enough. The drunken grillmaster, Buzz Cook, is getting too old for this.
I think, with the vet minimum
That we only cover, like, $456,000 of that. If he works out, he’s an incredibly cheap piece. If not, we can cut him without thinking twice.
"Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans."
-ralphgoblue/thunder_god08
by Thom_not_Tom on Aug 10, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I can understand
People being upset with bringing on a player who seems to have missed his prime.
But 1.3mm is nothing in the NBA. I mean come on, the Pistons will get a decent chunk of that back in jersey sales, and maybe a few seats as well.
I don’t see it as a bad thing.
aldridge:
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/08/10/pistons.mcgrady/index.html
A league source indicated Tuesday that the Pistons will work to “un-jam the log jam” the team now has at the shooting guard and small forward spots after signing the 31-year-old McGrady, who has been working out for several teams this summer looking for a home, including Chicago and Cleveland.
The source said that McGrady agreed without conditions to play behind starters Rip Hamilton and Tayshawn Prince next season, though it’s likely that Detroit will move either Hamilton or Prince before the start of next season. It’s more likely the Pistons will move Prince, who is entering the last year of his contract.
A second source said Sunday that Detroit won’t move Prince unless he requests a trade.
Detroit is satisfied that McGrady is healthy after coming back last year from microfracture surgery on his left knee in February, 2009.
If we get a pack of peanuts for Rip
I’ll be content, and i would also like to either move Tay for a big or just let him expire for the sake of completely cleaning house. Out of the original championship squad, the only guy I want to keep would be Big Ben (and that goes without saying), we need a whole new era and that will be impossible as long that old school mentality is still in our system
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Aug 10, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
There's no more obvious than completely obvious.
Complete means 100%. In order to make it more obvious, it would have to be beyond 100%. That’s impossible. Nothing can be more than 100%. By definition that’s the most anything can be.
Because I'm the Lynch... and I'm awwwesome!
by Terrence J. Lynch on Aug 10, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
For a moment...
I didn’t realize this was in response to another comment. I was thinking, “really? The Connie Hawkins comparison was obvious? Dang…”
by Kevin Sawyer on Aug 10, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope not
Dyess at the very least should deserve his own introduction, considering he’ll likely never have his number retired (unless if he should return as a coach, then out of pure loyalty Joe would have to push it through management)
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Aug 10, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Mason announcing him at all would imply that he's in the starting lineup
And that is a scenario I hope doesn’t happen unless we’ve moved someone else.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I actually wouldn't mind him starting over Gordon
But you guys know my sentiment against him defensively. Tmac may not be very athletic or quick anymore, but he’s still very big for a SG, and that should allow him to hold his own.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=mcgratr01&y1=2010&p2=princta01&y2=2010
If you look at his career numbers, up until last year he was actually a better defender than Tay. However also his o-rating is lower, which is why I always found him to be overrated (puts up empty points). For instance people claim that Dirk always loses in the playoffs because he scores off purely volume himself, but where as Tmac has a career of 107, Dirk’s 117 – huge difference.
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Aug 10, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
People that think McGrady was only a pure scorer weren't paying attention
He’s been a pretty good defender for awhile, and he’s always been a very good distributor and rebounder. He was actually a pretty good shotblocker in Toronto, too. He averaged about two per game one year, if I’m remembering correctly.
"Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans."
-ralphgoblue/thunder_god08
by Thom_not_Tom on Aug 10, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
well you know what Dumars must be thinking right now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YUuyzQDmjY
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Aug 10, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know
I’ve heard McDyess’ name over the PA in that form many during a game. Meaning he doesn’t have to start for Mason to give him his own style for his name.
And I quote: "Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans" - ralphgoblue
yeah...
thought about that after I posted it…gosh I’m a dummy.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Aug 11, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
This move gives Austin Daye more time to gain weight.
I suggest a DBB potluck. Only instead of having a dinner party. We all make dishes and bring them to AD’s house and make him eat them.
by Quick Darshan on Aug 10, 2010 4:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Excuse me, waiter?
There’s errant rosemary on my hot, juicy plate of turd.
by TDP on Aug 11, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
or goose liver
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Aug 11, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Neither of you actually rec'd my post...
Y U Teazin’?
by Kevin Sawyer on Aug 10, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You cannot play through back spasms any more than you can play through an aardvark chewing on your testicles. But they do go away, and, with proper conditioning, can be made to disappear.
I run two miles a day, lift weights at least four times a week, and eat/drink healthy, but still can’t seem to get these pesky aardvarks off my testicles.
Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
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I was ambivalent when I first heard the rooomer, but I’m steadily getting a case of the grumpies about it.
1) It makes the Terrico pick even more mystifying.
2) It seems like a stab at getting some bandwagon T-Mac fans into the Palace that wouldn’t have come otherwise. I can understand the Pistons brass being terrified that attendance might plummet with the lack of roster movement. But the only real way to guarantee butts in seats is a roster that generates a high % of wins.
3) There’s a high chance T-Mac is done as an NBA player. He’s been on a steady decline since ‘02-’03 season.
4) He’s going to take minutes from Daye. There’s something to be said for young players needing to earn their minutes, but NBA teams don’t always operate rationally. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that Daye plays better than McGrady, and McGrady still gets more minutes.
5) Barring huge improvements, a line-up with Stuckey and McGrady at PG and SG/SF will be in danger of setting historic inefficiency records (though they might be a good defensive combo).
by Gabe F-B on Aug 10, 2010 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
So you're saying
We get better defensively? Woo-hoo!
Because I'm the Lynch... and I'm awwwesome!
by Terrence J. Lynch on Aug 10, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Re: Point #4
If you assume that the average NBA squad tends to irrationally distribute minutes based on the salary they’re paying to each player (eg – Al Jefferson vs. Kevin Love), then Daye even if not as good as McGrady, would still win out since he’s actually paid around $500K more this season than McGrady.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Aug 10, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
regarding #5
I personally am intrigued by a Stuckey, Tmac, Daye backcourt. Talk about size on the perimeter, and in theory it would work very well offensively if Tmac can score 15-18 efficient ppg. While I do agree that he was pretty inefficient as a superstar, I would imagine that his shooting touch and ball handling ability would let him to score efficiently with a far smaller role. As for Daye, if the summer league was any indication of improve (and I think it was), I think he can potentially be a 20 ppg scorer under the right system and if he continues to bulk up.
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Aug 10, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I go back and forth
Between having a case of the grumpies and agreeing with V above. This isn’t a bad deal, because it’s the vet minimum. However, the only unaddressed concern I still have is how this will impact the development of Daye and JJ. And really, we just won’t know that until things play out.
what are your thoughts on the Stuckey/Tmac/Daye combo
That could either be a lethal weapon or backfire completely and in every way possible
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Aug 10, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It would only work if...
we followed it up with the Bynum, Gordon, White, Max, CV31 lineup. Ya know, for the kids.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Aug 11, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
To answer BT's StuckMacDaye combo question
Who knows. TMac is a complete unknown at this point. If he’s healthy and not washed up, it could be intriguing.
Yeah I should have included
The move indicates the Pistons are going to continue pushing JJ towards primarily playing PF. I’m still befuddled by this. The Pistons discovered a 22 year old euro rookie who was above average as a starting SF for a big chunk of the season. And somehow from that evidence they’ve decided he should play more PF…
Except, statisically speaking, he was actually better at the PF position.
His PER jumps from 13.1 to 18.8. The net differential per 48 drops from -5.9 to -1.9. His eFG% rises to .483 to .538.
Because I'm the Lynch... and I'm awwwesome!
by Terrence J. Lynch on Aug 10, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
PER sucks. There are other advanced statistics that I think are more accurate that say exactly the opposite of what you’re saying. Jonas helps his team more at SF than PF.
And Gabe, that’s an excellent point. Although I’m inclined to think that the Pistons are going to play JJ at PF regardless of TMac’s ability or lack thereof due to the incredibly unbalanced roster prior to this signing. But you’re still making a good point.
Maybe they're hoping for a Rashard Lewis type
Then again, Rashard shouldn’t really be playing PF either…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Aug 11, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Downside to T-Mac?
I think it’s interesting that back during last season there was talk of us trading Rip & Tay for T-Mac. Now we’re getting him for practically nothing. He doesn’t meet a need as far as I can tell, but if it sets us up for a trade in the future that will bolster our frontcourt, then it could be a pretty shrewd move. At this point we have no idea how any of our guys are going to do next season. But if one of the top teams needs a wing before the trade deadline, we will certainly have a lot to offer them. If Boston were willing to part with Perkins or Orlando wth Gortat at that point for one of our wings, I think we’d be glad this signing increased our options. It’s all a crap shoot – you do what looks to hold potential for strengthening the team and hope it works out.
I'm pretty sure those trade talks
were about getting Tmac purely for the cap space, not to get him as a player. However there was talk about trading Chauncey and Rip for him, when he had 2 years left on his deal, as a move to contend again
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Aug 10, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah put me in the boat of wanting to trade for Tmac 3 years ago...
after Houston continued to fail to get out of the 1st round, I thought moving Rip + filler or Tay + filler would have been a great way for both teams to re-load with different styles (we get the pure scorer and they get the efficient, formerly relentless Rip
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Aug 11, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
trade talks
Yeah, I think you’re right about that. All I’m saying is that now we’re getting him for free, and we still have rip and tay as players or trade possibilities. I’d be surprised if we don’t make a move at some point to lessen the logjam, but maybe the plan is to see what T-Mac can do and let that influence our next move. If he’s healthy and fits in well, then his versatility makes it much easier to part with both rip and tay.
I'm Overly Optimistic
It’s still Tracy McGrady. he is our first legit superstar in a while, even if he is of the nearly washed up variety. I wish there was a trade that would open up some PT for him but I think it works. It is a low risk venture since he is only signed to the minimum. If he can put up 17, 5, 5, in 65 games that makes Joe D look like genius.
I think if he puts up
8, 3 and 3 everyone would be happy. I’d be shocked if he plays even 20 minutes per game unless if Rip is traded, and still he’d be coming off the bench unless if he clearly was outperforming Gordon.
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Aug 10, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
JJ's minutes
I think the plan is to play JJ mostly at power forward, but who knows how all this will work out? I can still remember how disappointed I was when Grant Hill left, but that turned out to be the best thing that could have happened for us and the worst for Orlando. By the way, wasn’t Detroit a possible destination for T-Mac that year, but he decided to go to Orlando instead? I’ll bet he’d like a do-over on that decision!
No
We didn’t have cap room until Hill left, and T-Mac signed more or less in tandem. We were pursuing Tim Thomas and Jalen Rose, before nearly trading Stackhouse for Allen Iverson. Dodge bullets much?
by Kevin Sawyer on Aug 10, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Now trade Rip and Tay for Vince Carter and Gortat
reuniting TMac with his equally injury prone former teammate for one last hurrah.
In all seriousness...
I’d really like to see this lineup:
Daye, TMac, Jerebko, Villanueva, Monroe. There’s enough ball handling and shooting range to make it work.
No point guard?
So one of those guys is a better point guard than Stuckey?
Throw in Stuckey at the point and CV on the bench
That’s worth a six game experiment, yes?
by Kevin Sawyer on Aug 10, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
pistons.com got me thinking
Why not get Bob Lanier to help out as an assistant coach to mentor Greg Monroe? In all of his modern interviews he talks about how badly he wants a ring and how he wished he could have been part of that 03-04 team, well why not help start another dynasty? Last I checked, he’s something like one of only 10 big men ever to average a legit 20, 10 for his entire career, not to mention he had every post move in the book.
I’ve been trying to figure out what resources we have at hand, and the first guy that would come to mind would be Isiah, but for some reason that I don’t know, the Pistons never wanted him as part of the MC suit special. Besides he’s been a knick at heart for a number of years now, so I doubt he would come back to mentor Stuckey (though that would be extremely helpful). Joe basically gave hearty fuck you to Laimbeer when we had an assistant coach opening and he wanted an NBA job, so that option’s gone (and not so coincidentally, Love became a dominant rebounder). So unless if you want “The Microwave” to teach either White or Gordon, that just about only leaves Lanier as potentially useful historic piston players.
I have no clue how much Lanier has left in the tank considering how old he is, but I would imagine it wouldn’t strain him too much to give verbal lessons. It’s not like we would be asking him to demonstrate all the moves himself consistently. What’s there to lose?
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Aug 10, 2010 9:18 PM EDT reply actions
Don't Laugh
Roscoe would make an outstanding coach. For all of his knuckleheadness at times, his basketball IQ is one of the highest of all time. But I have a feeling he’s not quite done yet. Look for a comeback sometime late in March.
I don't buy this...
Yes, high basketball IQ. And a great talent. But Sheed has always been about Sheed first. When things are going great, he can be the consummate team mate. When he’s unhappy, he pouts, he flares, he self- and team-sabotages, he doesn’t try hard.
I know a lot of incredibly smart people who are awful teachers. Sheed might not be awful, but would you really want to count on him to help marshal the emotions of and enforce consistency in fifteen men raised to be headstrong and egotistical? Sheed could only sporadically be counted on to get the most out of Sheed. I don’t see adding an additional fifteen charges to his plate being a good solution.
My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)
by MrHappyMushroom on Aug 11, 2010 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Lets be clear
Are Sheed’s on-the-court antics extremely selfish and self-centered? Yes.
Has he “always been about Sheed first”? Absolutely not.
Any player he’s played with from Jermaine O’Neal to Jason Maxiell will say the same thing about Sheed, the guy never stops mentoring and teaching the guys that are considered “under his wing”. He absolutely would be an asset as an assistant coach or big man consultant to help develop young bigs.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I like Sheed as an assistant or consultant type, good call. I can’t see him being a successful head coach, though.
Neither Do I
I mean, I would put the over/under on Ts at around 120/season if he were a head coach. But the guy undoubtedly has great knowledge of the game, and knows how to teach. His fatal flaw as a player, besides being too emotional, is that he just lacks motivation.
by V. on Aug 12, 2010 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions
actually they did
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html
he got 1 more board per 36, but more importantly he was dominant when he was healthy and starting
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?playerId=3449
take a look at the starting numbers, he got 13.3 boards in 32 minutes. That’s insane! That’s nearly 17 boards per 40!
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Aug 11, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
The increase is primarily due to pace. The Timberwolves played faster this past year than they did the year before. Love’s total rebounding percentage did increase, but only slightly, from 21.0% to 21.5%.
but you're forgetting he was injured for a good while
That brought down his numbers quite a bit, and that’s why I pointed out his performance as a starter as that was when he was truly healthy
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Aug 11, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Basketball-reference unfortunately doesn’t have advanced splits. I can do a rough rate adjustment based on his season TRB% staying about the same and comparing his rebounding per36 between his rookie and sophomore years. If he played at the same pace as a rookie as he did this past season, he would have had 14.0 rebounds per 36. As a starter this past year, he had 14.8 rebounds per 36. So, he made a 6% improvement in rebounding, which IME isn’t enough to say he “became a dominant rebounder” due to Laimbeer’s influence. He was already fantastic and he remained fantastic.
Bookkeeping
Additions: Greg Monroe, Terrico White, Tracy McGrady, Chiseled Charlie
Subtraction: Kwame Brown, Chucky Atkins, Chunky Charlie
by Quick Darshan on Aug 10, 2010 11:35 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Not a big deal...
Really, what is the big deal about giving a former all-star the vet min? I know there’s bigger holes to fill and there’s too many wing players on this team, but what is the real cost? Q and the rest of the coaching staff are going to figure out real quick if T-Mac is T-Slow (see what I did there) and his performance will dictate what kind of playing time he will get. If he blows it up he is a great bargaining chip at the deadline, or a serviceable piece if Rip/Tay get moved. If he busts out and acts like he should be in a snickers commercial then he is going to be leaving the team with some sort of back problem (see Iverson, Allen). If he is brought in to bring in some revenue to the pistons from bandwagon fans, so what? I could think of worse siginings (Darko….I know right, too easy). If Joe D does find a good 1 for 2 deal and we need to clear a roster spot, 1.3 is nothing on a NBA payroll. And Terrico White? I watched the summer leage footage. Looks like a good player with some good potential. But does anyone see him taking minutes from Rip, Ben, Stucky or MFWB in the next year? Only unless there is another year of injuries again. And if Rip and Tay do get traded, then White’s gonna get his chance anyway. If White is a better player than T-Mac in camp, then White’s gonna get his chance anyway. When it comes down to it, Min rist > possible reward. Really, who would you rather have, T-Mac or Chucky Atkins at the vet min?
Just Epinion
Stuckey trade
so much talk about trading rip & prince, fact is, Stuckey is the most tradeable asset
I wouldn't trade Stuck for CP3 unless NO was giving us a few picks along with it.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Like MFTJL mentioned (I think), I’m not attached to Stuckey, so I wouldn’t be too torn up to see him go. If we could get a valuable piece to our mixed up puzzle for him, I’d pull the trigger. He seems like a great guy and a real professional, so I think he could make the best out of any situation because he works hard.
by garrettelliott on Aug 11, 2010 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
joe being joe
Dumars only signed him to raise eyebrows. Needed someome with past to sign to think they are headed in the right direction. I just hope they sign Moses Malone next
The only eyebrows that matter are the wrong DaJuan's
And his have most certainly been raised by this signing.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Great news
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68637/20100811/herrmann_considering_return_to_nba/
We can sign him with our last roster spot, and add another needed wing player to the team.
Future lineups
Stuckey/Bynum
Rip/Gordon
Tay/Daye
T-Mac/Summers
Jerebko/Herrmann
by Birdman84 on Aug 11, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yay!! Wet Dreams Do Come True!!!!!!
To experience the consequences of my own choices. This is why I live
Half Step Too Slow For NBA
He’d be better advised to stay in Euroleague. It’s really a shame, because he can play otherwise.
by V. on Aug 12, 2010 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Having a big ego isn't the same thing as being a diva
I don’t think McGrady is any kind of diva. He’s faced a lot of BS questioning about his ‘heart’ from random statistical noise (“he can’t get out of the first round!”) and he’s had a general decline in health with a non-obvious problem (back) that led to him losing his playing time. Like Kevin said, he’s a good guy. It’s no sob story to get paid $20M not to play basketball but he did get shuffled out of the rotation in Houston due to injury and never really got a chance to earn it back.
Houston was built around a non-star model in his absence and I think Daryl Morey rightly understood that McGrady was not an easy fit in that system. It’s not just McGrady who didn’t see himself that way, it was his teammates. In Detroit McGrady is coming as a veteran trying for a bit of redemption, a theme common as water for the veterans on the team and common for the franchise.
McGrady can be a better rebounder, defender and passer than the other 2 and 3 almost every night if he is close to healthy. If he can change his offensive game to something more efficient he’ll be a great pickup. If Joe Dumars starts saying ‘We need to let Tracy be Tracy’ and have him score 25 points while shooting 43% the problem is Joe Dumars, not greenlighting a veteran minimum player and then being disappointed with the results.
Expirings
What if Jod’s main purpose in signing McGrady was to simply increase the amount of expiring contracts he has at the trade dealine?
We have the following expiring contracts:
Tay = $11.1
Wilcox = $3
McGrady = $1.3
Summers = $.76
Jerebko = $.76
That’s about $17 mil in expiring contracts. And, that is not counting Stuckey who could not be extended a qualifying offer next summer and also come off the books. Considering all the movement and crazy signings this summer and with a new CBA looming, trade deadline activity will likely be higher than ever.
With $17 million in expiring contracts, and the 125% rule, we could take back just about any contract in the nba.
I’m not saying I believe this was Jod’s motivation, necessarily. But, it is probably another factor that played into the signing. Whether McGrady turns out useful or not, he is an expiring contract in a season where those things will be gold. That is an asset. Obviously, any one year vet minimum contract would be the same, but McGrady represents the highest potential reward for such a signing.
Does anyone on DBB know for sure if there are any trade restrictions on one-year vet min deals? We talked about it in passing a day or two ago … not sure it was answered for sure.
The discussions around Ben Wallace trades last year seem to indicate
that you can trade vet min contracts on 1 year deals.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Something is defintely brewing on the ownership front
Joe D is stuck waiting to do something.
We have been talking about this McGrady thing since last week, he was in Detroit, why wasn’t the contract signed? For that matter, why hasn’t Terrico White’s signed? These delays might be combined with the recent activity on the ownership front. Ilitch jumped out publicly on Monday, and now the Pistons are telling people that there are two other people. I imagine these potential suitors have to give Joe D some sort of go ahead before he can do anything big.
I’m guess all of the potential buyers are going to go in some room and argue through their lawyers for a while, but first they’ll sign some agreement to let Joe D do his job, and then after that he will actually do something. I’m also guessing this will happen soon.
chadfordinsider
Breaking: Hornets, Rockets, Pacers & Nets working on 4 team deal. Ariza to NO. C. Lee to HOU. Collison & Posey to IND. Murphy to NJ.
Where in the world is Trent Plaisted?
Weird
So, NO is trading Collison and Posey for Ariza?
There must be a draft pick involved.
I can see why Houston and Indiana do it.
But not NO. They get rid of a young cheap asset (with questions of how long the guy that plays in front of him will stay with the team) and unless they get some picks as incentive, they don’t even get cap space.
Where in the world is Trent Plaisted?
SpearsNBAYahoo
Hou,NJ, NO, Indy trade done and trade call taking place now, source tells Y!. Hou gets C Lee, NO gets Ariza, Indy Collison-Posey, NJ Murphy
SpearsNBAYahoo
No draft picks involved in four-way trade.
Where in the world is Trent Plaisted?
Maybe Ariza is that one piece
that makes Paul say “no way am I leaving now”.
Or, something.
I like Ariza, a lot… still, I scratched my head for a long time after seeing what NO got out of that deal. Makes no sense to me.
This has been one of the tougher off-seasons to stomach.
As a Detroit fan.
I don’t want add player does not have blue collar mentality,
even if he is great player. Piston should not quit your job. - OK from J
I like that trade for everyone but New Orleans. They’re putting all their eggs in one basket and are now one step away from being FUBAR.
To experience the consequences of my own choices. This is why I live
You mean as a basketball fan? There have been some strange happenings this summer for sure.
by garrettelliott on Aug 11, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know...
Being just short of terrible after the All-Star hasn’t been something memorable this summer.
And I quote: "Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans" - ralphgoblue
Of course as a basketball fan.
I mean, the potential Illitch takeover is cool, and Ben Wallace retiring as a Piston is fantastic. I appreciate these things. But, we haven’t really made any good trades or signed anyone I like. And no, I don’t like McGrady.
Many other teams however, have gotten better and made some good moves.
I don’t want add player does not have blue collar mentality,
even if he is great player. Piston should not quit your job. - OK from J
yeah it feels like we are just watching the east arms race heat up while our boys in blue have made no meaningful moves. that said now that the schedule has been released im already starting to get excited for the new season.
I'm just going to try not to take this season too serious
Basically, we’re going to suck. I’ve accepted that. Its going to be a struggle to watch games because the basketball is not going to be pretty. I’m watching this season for Ben Gordon, Charlie Villaneuva, Kidney Stone, Jerebko, and to see if Stuckey has any improvement. Last season, I thought the team could at least make the playoffs, but it didn’t happen, so this season, my expectations are lowered. The only way I’ll be pissed is if C-Nuv is still a wreck, Ben Gordon doesn’t improve, and if Greg Monroe is a bust.
by Biz Markie Moon on Aug 12, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I have higher expectations for this team than last year
They’ll win 28
Where in the world is Trent Plaisted?
I went into the MCIAFI season optimistically and we sucked. Everything went wrong. Then last season I went in optimistically because I thought things had to have gotten better, but they were just as bad (but in different ways). So I’m optimistic this season will be at least a bit of an improvement and our team will play something that at least kind of looks like basketball.
by garrettelliott on Aug 12, 2010 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Won't get fooled again!
Or maybe I will. :(
by garrettelliott on Aug 12, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Jeez, NJ came out like bandits. Trading a pretty crappy to average at best SG, and getting a super productive, underrated PF. Sign me up.
Sounds like the Derrick Favors Project is postponed until next season.
He’ll get minutes, but not ROY minutes.
Looking at NJ’s roster they might actually be good pretty soon/this year, if Harris returns to form.
Harris/Farmar
Morrow/TWill
Outlaw/Damion James
Murphy/Favors
Lopez/Favors
That’s a solid rotation.
they would have been dominant
If LeBron went there; I still feel that was his best option. He would get to live in NY without being called a cop out because the Nets just aren’t the same name as the Knicks, and he probably would still win at least 60 games perennially over there. That team wouldn’t be as good as the modern heat, but they would be more balanced, deeper and would likely win just as many titles
"Don’t really know shit about White other than he is a colon of Stuckey" - das SmittyJ
And here I thought I knew White like the palm of my hand
by bearded thundar on Aug 11, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
not to mention all the sweet jet ski tricks he'd learn from MRMC
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Harris/Farmar > Mo WIlliams
Morrow Delonte West
Lebron Lebron
Murphy Verajo/Jamison
Lopez Shaq/Ilgauskas
Yeah. But not the sure thing that the Queen wanted.
To experience the consequences of my own choices. This is why I live
ummm... format fail. lol. I put spaces there for a reason!
To experience the consequences of my own choices. This is why I live
This is how it probably went down.
“Okay, Boris.”
“My name is Mikhail.”
“Whatever, Boris. I really like what’s going on here. Good young players, and hey, I can always use more masons in my area, and with Jay-Z, we’ve got one. There is one and one question only though.”
“Okay.”
“If me, Devin Harris, and Brook Lopez are playing the Mario game with the turnips, will Brook Lopez play as Princess Peach?”
A pause.
“Okay then, fuck you guys. At least I know that Chris Bosh likes floating for an abnormally long time and then getting his shit wrecked by Birdo.”
by Biz Markie Moon on Aug 11, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Trade with Nets
After the four-team trade the nets have both favors and murphy at the power forward spot. Their weakest spot is at shooting guard. We should make a trade of rip for murphy. Another trade that should be done is sending prince back to his hometown. Trade prince for Chris Kaman (CMU graduate). Add a draft pick if needed. This would solve the jam at the wing positions and give us a starting center and power forward.
Favors is still a very raw player
Having Murphy allows for them to bring him along without too much pressure.
Where in the world is Trent Plaisted?
That's a good point
While Murphy might not be the greatest mentor for Favors (I’m assuming their respective games are much different, but I could definitely be wrong), a veteran presence for a young team is usually a great asset.
by handsomerob1 on Aug 12, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Nets Won't Do That Trade
Well…let me take that back…since they hired Billy King, anything is possible, I guess. As much as David Kahn gets roasted here, he’s no Billy King, trust me.
by V. on Aug 12, 2010 4:29 AM EDT up reply actions
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