Free agents you want to keep, free agents you don't
by joejoejoe on Jan 20, 2011 2:00 AM EST
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Detroit has some free agents on it's current roster that can be flipped for future assets. The decision about whether to pursue resigning them has to happen before the trade deadline, otherwise their value will drift to nothing on the lottery bound Pistons. Here's a brief look at the four '11 free agents on the Pistons and some ideas on how Joe Dumars should proceed.
1) Tayshaun Prince - unrestricted - $11.1M expiring:
It's possible Joe Dumars wants Tayshaun to be a Piston for life. I'm OK with that, Tay is a brilliant player who helps direct traffic on offense and defense for all 5 positions. He's got a ring, a gold medal, and a zillion consecutive game streak in his record book and I think he's worth resigning. I'm also OK with flipping him for an asset and making him a Piston for almost life and resigning him next season if that's possible. Ben Wallace doesn't seem to have lost any love by his detour to Chicago and Cleveland. Swapping Tay for Caron Butler and a pick wouldn't be a bad deal.
More on the flip...
2) Tracy McGrady - unrestricted - $.85M expiring: You have to flip him to a contender for an asset. You can probably get a good young player under a rookie deal that isn't getting burn by trading him to a playoff club. Keeping him is insane. I'm a big McGrady fan for his entire career and if you want to make a run at him as a '11 FA, great, but you have to juice this orange while it's ripe. T-Mac to Miami for Dexter Pittman and a second round pick?
3) Chris Wilcox - unrestricted - $3M expiring: It looked like nobody would want Wilcox but he may be playing himself into asset status with his recent run. I'm not sure you can get a lot for him but a playoff team that lacks depth might want him. Maybe a three-way deal that sends him to the Heat?
4) Rodney Stuckey - restricted - $2.8 (est. '11 salary - ???): This is the hard one. If Dumars believes Stuckey to be a future core player on championship, you keep him. If you don't, you move him this year to a team that wants depth. Stuckey looks like one of the Pistons best players in all the statistical models but I just don't think he that great a basketball player. He reminds me a little of Richard Jefferson in that he can do almost everything, but he doesn't seem to have the instincts to do it when it counts. Jefferson has been great this year for the Spurs but that doesn't erase a huge chunk of overpaid mediocrity. I don't want to buy a huge chunk of overpaid mediocrity. Trade him.
What do you think?
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I vote all of them
we need a complete refresh, and none of these should be in our future plans. No offense to any of them, and I appreciate what each of these has brought to the franchise, even you Wilcox, you beast of late.
MFDLN!!
by Mike Payne on Jan 20, 2011 2:19 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
I vote also all of them.
However, if there is the chance to hire new coach,
I would like to re-sign Tay with reasonable price.
Prospect SFs Jonas and Daye are both young,
they need veteran backup.
Just OKpinion.
Where broken English happens
by OK from J on Jan 20, 2011 2:30 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
I also would add that I think the way to maximize our current resources is via trade, not Free Agency.
I was thinking about this last night during the game. Best as I can figure, Jod’s plan appears to be:
- Subtract McGrady, Wilcox, and Prince
- Re-sign Stuckey
- Add a big man via free agency
I don’t see how that improves in any meaningful way. If we don’t manage to flip some of our current players / FAs into some combination of picks, players, or additional financial flexibility, I’m even less optimistic about the next several years.
The other interesting layer would be S&T’s, but the obvious problem is that it’s very hard to pull off in the first place, let alone a team that is under the cap (due to how high the cap holds would be for Stuckey and Prince, eg).
What's the market rate for Tayshaun Prince?
I have to think he has a 3yr offer out there at anywhere from $8-10 M/per year. Is he worth that to a rebuilding Pistons team? I say yes but I’m a big Prince fan.
I really, really think it's time for Prince to go, just as much as Hamilton
Prince is a very gifted, valuable and efficient player who can offer a lot to a contender, even as a starter. But even moreso than Rodney Stuckey as point guard, Tayshaun is the rusty cog in our slow, unproductive offense. He’s being used poorly in Detroit, having gone from the 4th option in 2003 to the offensive officiator in 2011. We run so much through him (or at least we did before Tracy took the point), and our offensive sets were so terribly predictable and unproductive— it was truly painful to watch.
Stuckey dribbles to the top of the key, Tay gets position within 15 feet, Stuckey passes to Tay, Tay uses his length to protect the ball and spends four or five seconds to decide who to pass to as players move. Most of the time in this scenario, Tay decides to take a contested jumper, but luckily many of them fell.
Prince is currently sporting a career high usage rate. But even though his importance in our offensive system is at a career high, he’s not shown a significant improvement in passing and the offense as a whole hasn’t improved either. Tay has shown that he can be an efficient scorer, a productive player in isolation. But the problem is that Tay’s improvements have effectively made his team’s offense worse, and his use as a facilitator has been one of this season’s more noteworthy failures in Detroit.
Tay needs a new team where he can trust his teammates on offense. He needs to go back to a glue guy, 4th option role. He also needs to go to the Western Conference. He’s had a great run in Detroit, but he can’t stay here and be used in this manner. Furthermore, he is the primary voice of dissent against the coaching staff here, the only player who has made significant and public overtures against his coach. You don’t build a new team around that kind of “veteran voice”.
Sorry Tayshaun, but I can’t argue that you haven’t worn out your welcome— and I can’t argue that your production is working to improve this team as a whole. For us and for you, you’re better off elsewhere. I will respect and admire your game in the future and will reflect warmly on the history we’ve shared. But hey, it’s clear shit isn’t working in Detroit for either of us.
Trade Tay. If he expires in Detroit, don’t resign him for more than a mid-level deal.
MFDLN!!
by Mike Payne on Jan 20, 2011 3:13 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Houston, Dallas, Golden State
any team with a large expiring contract and a young asset or pick
Would the Clippers consider moving Kaman for Prince? Do the pistons want Kaman?
by mgoblue4ever on Jan 20, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Nope, Kaman’s an injury risk, plus Mike Payne has laid down the law on why Kaman is overrated several times on this site. Basically, he doesn’t improve his team at all while being a 15-10 center, which means you have to be doing something terribly wrong. I don’t want Kaman either.
by Biz Markie Moon on Jan 20, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
I'd take Kaman.
But I was saying Boo-urns, too.
by garrettelliott on Jan 20, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Don't bring me into this Garrett...
Although I like Kaman as well.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
It's The Other Way Around
I think if the Pistons wanted Kaman, a deal would have been done eons ago.
As for the three teams you mentioned, to get asset or pick, you need to deal Tay to a contender and sell him a missing piece of the puzzle. This eliminates GSW. As for Houston or Dallas, is Tay an upgrade over their starting SF? Particularly Dallas, which has no shortage of wing players either.
just Vpinion
by V. on Jan 20, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Actually With Butler being out for the season with an injury
The Mavs would have serious use for a starting SF.
"You’d be surprised what you can accomplish if you’re not concerned with making sense!"- PS
Where In The West Would He Go?
I’m talking about free agency, where he’ll have plenty of options this summer. We should trade him to wherever we can get value back. But in free agency, he’ll have options like these playoff teams in the summer:
Dallas
Utah
Denver (could likely remain a .500+ team without Anthony)
If Tay wants a homecoming, expect either LA team to be interested. The Clips would likely love him as a starter, the Lakers would love him to split minutes at the 3 with Artest (they’re losing Barnes this summer). So where in the West would he go? The options are plentiful.
MFDLN!!
This is such an interesting question
I would think Tay will want an annual salary comparable to what he’s currently getting for the next 3 years. He’s still young enough that he can probably get 7-9 mil from somebody. But, I can’t see any contenders paying him that. Denver might have that flexibility. Dallas won’t. Utah won’t. Lakers won’t. Spurs won’t. And on down the line.
MLE and the shot at the chip or one more large contract? I think that’s the choice he’ll have to make.
I’m thinking Tay is the kind of guy who’d absolutely take an MLE level contract to play on a contender or even a middling playoff team. The exception is probably the Clippers, where he might take a longer-term MLE to be a vet voice as that team grows to replace one of the top 5 in the west in two years or so. Beyond that, yeah Denver might be able to (and might try to) out-spend the others to give Tay a 7-9 mil contract if they don’t like the other options on the market (if they don’t trade Carmie for a 3).
MFDLN!!
Trade TMac...For Someone Like DeAndre Jordan?
Especially since Eric Gordon hurt himself last night and will likely be out a while?
Problem is, Clips are going nowhere this year, they could go 30-10 rest of the way and miss the playoffs. You could possibly sell this deal if their record was better.
Can I Red Panda myself for even thinking about this (now you know why I don’t do trades)?
just Vpinion
I could've been a contender instead of a bum...ugh...Clipper
As you said, I don’t think the Clippers are a contender. T-Mac to the Bulls makes sense too.
if
the pistons could get DeAndre Jordan in a three team trade that would be nice
by mgoblue4ever on Jan 20, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
the Clippers
would be out of their mind to trade Jordan— you don’t let go that kind of talent on a restricted contract.
MFDLN!!
But Mike...It's The Clippers
just Vpinion
by V. on Jan 20, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
exactly
which is why we should ask for Griffin instead
I have decided to start a career in rap under the presumptuous name of Dextrorotatory Glucose. However, you may call me "D-Sugar" for short
by bearded thundar on Jan 20, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, No Deal
Making us taking Aminu is a deal killer.
just Vpinion
by V. on Jan 20, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
I love that Hollinger only has this
Adding 4(!!!) wins to the Pistons. How does that even make sense within his system? Gordon and Griffin BOTH have PER’s over 20! Rip is at, like, a league average PER. HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE??? (Oh, right. It’s based off a Hollinger statistic.)
"Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans."
-ralphgoblue/thunder_god08
by Thom_not_Tom on Jan 20, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
I think it’s time to start shopping TMac + Rip as a package deal. Honestly, no one’s taking Rip without a sweetener, and we’re screwed until we can get rid of him. I still think Dallas would at least consider it, if only for TMac alone.
Package deals are the way to go. I like Prince+Wilcox to SAC for Dalembert—expirings for expiring, saves DET a little money this year, and maybe we have the inside track to re-sign him.
by -PS- on Jan 20, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rip and Tay to Utah for Andrei Kerilenko
I agree that we need to package Rip with someone to get rid of him
Actually makes sense for Utah
They desperately need a starting SG (Miles has been a good 6th man, though), and Tay offers them at least a comparable starting 3 and an expiring deal to replace AK47’s. They’re built to be a contender right now, and putting Rip in a well-coached offensive system with a league-best facilitator could revive his career.
"Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans."
-ralphgoblue/thunder_god08
by Thom_not_Tom on Jan 20, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Jonas
Perhaps Stuckey if the price is very good.
Beyond that I’d look for package trades, like PS suggested. It can either be for better players, expiring, picks or just to get out of bad contracts. This rosters could use a do over and I’d try to move every long term high salary guy, and if smaller pieces be needed then I’d have no problem with adding them.
Jonas, jag älskar dig! Du är vacker.
Tay is a brilliant player
Hyperbole for the win. I know they use the word “Brilliant” in the UK frequently, but in my lexicon it is saved for the truly outstanding. In my recollection, Tay has had one truly outstanding moment (I’ll let you figure out which one), and one outstanding series against Orlando. Otherwise, I would never describe Tayshuan as “brilliant”.
Wilcox is fool’s gold. I believe that we’re seeing “expiring contract” Wilcox, not “this is the guy you get all the time” Wilcox. Let’m walk.
by Big Z in Orlando on Jan 20, 2011 1:44 PM EST reply actions
I meant 'brilliant' like 'smart'
I think Tay is a bit like John McEnroe in understanding his sport. It’s a blessing (he’s had a great career) and a curse (he sees all the mistakes the team is making when they suck). I think Prince’s understanding of the game is what makes him a brilliant (smart) player and a great complimentary player. I don’t mean to say Prince is a brilliant performer, although as a team player on an elite team in his youth, he was brilliant.
What About "Lovely" & "Smashing"?
Kind of like the British version, of “long, smooth and can stroke it”.
just Vpinion
Tay is nothing more than a scrumpet's hair away from being a trollop.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Voted for none of them
Because I thought the question was going to be which free agents do you want resigned. Whoops.
by Not a Gunslinger on Jan 20, 2011 2:26 PM EST reply actions
I could go either way on almost any of these FA
Stuckey- I would have no problem giving him a bit more than the mid-level for four or five years. Much more than that and he isn’t worth it. He probably has a lot of value around the league so I would have no problem trading him as long as we can get something of value in return
Tay- Trading him makes a lot of sense, but I’m not willing to just give him away. I also would not be adverse to resigning him on the cheap, but I’m guessing he’s going to get more than I’m willing to spend on him. Good luck to him.
T-Mac— I would love to resign him to a two year deal similar to what Ben signed last summer, but I’m guessing he will get a lot more than that from a team with a real chance at contending. Trading him for a decent draft pick probably makes the most sense.
Wilcox— I love what he’s doing right now, but he screams contract year. I’d be willing to resign him to a deal slightly more than a veterans minimum, but not much more. If someone is willing to give us something of value for him, I’d totally listen.
In short- resigning on the cheap= good. Trading for value=good. Resigning for massive contracts=Very bad.
"You’d be surprised what you can accomplish if you’re not concerned with making sense!"- PS
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