SB Nation Detroit Editor's Pick
An open letter to Joe Dumars: 8 ways to lose your job
(Ed. note: Excellent work, I found myself nodding in agreement through most of the points. Welcome back to DBB! -- MW)
Hello DBB! This isn't my first time posting, but it's been a while. I did some a few years back, the highlight being the high brow thread - proud to have been a part of it! Then I graduated college and spent about a year in Australia. As a result, I missed all of the 09-10 season (I know Laughton manages some but I rarely had solid internet). I credit and thank DBB for keeping me in the loop for that time. Admittedly, coming home to this disaster of the season has made paying close attention a challenge. I've still gone to a number of games and have had them on TV, just not always looking.
Anyways, this thread was obviously inspired by the golden MFMP post. I posted it to my infant blog and thought I'd post here too. I won't pretend it's anywhere near as thoughtful or original as his, but that would be hard to do. Now that I've finally logged in (never did since the SBN change) maybe I'll come out of lurking more often.
Your prayers have been answered. KD has handed off the keys to a guy who, at first glance, has the motivation and the means to do what's best for this organization. He also seems interested in learning how to do it without taking the decision-making burden upon himself just yet. If not for that, one could easily make a case for you losing your job before you get to redeem yourself. I, however, want to see you succeed. You know this culture (or once did) and your past successes are obvious. I don't want to see the last 3 seasons stain your legacy. So consider this list. Maybe don't make a plaque of it like Tom should the Mike Payne Manifesto, but give it some thought.
1.) Let Kuester go (or you're fired), and if your new hire is universally disdained by the end of the season, you're fired.
Firing Saunders, hiring MCIAFI, and hiring Q each made at least a little sense at their respective times. This is the first time in your tenure that you'll be signing a new coach without also having to pay the one you fired. Time to pay the premium for an experienced coach that can bring our coaching back to where it needs to be. Or hire Bill Laimbeer. At the very least, he will bring our culture back to where it needs to be, and maybe both. I kind of prefer that route. And if Ben Wallace retires, do all you can to make him an assistant.
2.) If you don't get rid of either Rip or Gordon, you're fired.
You put yourself in this position. There's not a person out there who can explain the logic behind sinking that much money into SG. I don't care which goes, but at least one has to. Preferably Rip. If our new coach puts Gordon in a position to succeed and he actually does it, he can stay. Otherwise, he should go too, but you aren't required to find a deal for both this season to keep your job.
4.) If you draft another ‘project' or ‘upside' player in the 2nd round when there is a clear ‘best talent available,' you're fired.
Those players are not intended for project teams, but rather established ones with coaches that can develop young talent. You created a project team and you don't yet have a coach, so you lost that privilege. Stop it. If you can get a guy that averaged 15/12 in college, I don't care if his knees are made of wood and he has a limited supply of flubber. We need known contributors now, not maybes next year.
3.) If you draft another SG or SF, you're fired.
No explanation necessary. Stop it.
4.) If you sign Prince to anything near what you signed Rip to, you're fired.
This one's a little tricky. I think if Rip goes and we have a suitable coach, Tay could be a decent piece going forward and into his declining years. Part of me still wants him to retire here. But he should not play starter minutes and this isolayshaun crap needs to stop. I don't mind at all if he goes though. If he wants remain a core piece and demands the money accordingly, let him go. I only want him around if he actually has a desire to help the team grow and is willing to take less money than his numbers would suggest he's worth, but really isn't.
5.) If you keep pretending Stuckey is our PG, you're fired.
This means drafting a real one if you can, or making it known that MFWB should be starting. This also means you do not pay Stuckey as if he is our starting PG. I actually don't mind keeping him at a fair price. I think he could definitely be effective as a rotation guard, so long as he's utilized as the combo guard he is and not your fairytale PG. You were wrong about that. Moving on doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of him, but you need to move on.
6.) If you don't at least try to get rid of CV, you're fired.
I'll have no way of knowing if you actually put forth a concerted effort to get rid of him, but Tom will. He's a smart guy too. He knows how useless CV is, and that little escapade to close the season at home didn't look great.
7.) If you whore out our culture to try transforming a known cancer into something useful, you're fired.
AI and TMac were failed experiments. I'm of the opinion that people don't change like that, especially athletes that get their asses kissed and are paid handsomely regardless of attitude. Some may argue Sheed was an exception, but I disagree. AI and TMac were praised for what they did on the court in spite of their attitudes. Sheed was criticized for what he didn't do because of it. He was still a bit of a head case, but he had a chip on his shoulder and a clear role coming in. Stop trying to repeat it.
8.) If you don't shake something else up, you're fired.
I want to see some creativity again. I don't know what to do about every player on the roster, and I'm on the fence on some. But I'm part of the crowd that doesn't mind anyone being ditched not named Greg Monroe. You have no excuses anymore. The spotlight this season will be squarely on you, and rightfully so.
Let me be clear, these requests are at least a little bit flexible. I understand that you likely cannot do everything here in one season. But everything on this list except for #2 is 100% within reach. #8 is the only other one dependent on other teams, but to say you can't do anything is obvious buffoonery. Let me be clear though - #2 is not negotiable. Even if you do everything else, that just means you're not AFI, and that isn't enough. It's tough, but you did this to yourself. If you can't do it, then you clearly have no more tricks up your sleeve, no more craftiness, and you're simply not the right guy to move us forward.
I really hope you can pull this off and prove us all wrong. I say all, because even your supporters have lost some faith. Those who haven't are awarding you blind or bandwagon faith that isn't worth much anyway. You are fortunate to be in this position with Tom and it's your chance to redeem yourself. Make us proud. Show us what you can do.
Or just resign and save yourself the trouble.
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Good post, but a quibble (because that's all there is to do, right?)
Re #7, while I defer to no one in my horror at AI’s time here, I don’t think T-Mac was a “failed experiment” or that he “changed the culture” here. T-Mac more than earned his very small salary on the court, and while I don’t think he had absolutely the best attitude on the squad, I don’t think he was a major cancer or instigator of attitude problems. Ideally, we would have traded him to a contender, but for whatever reason we didn’t. So it turned out to be an odd place for him to be at the end of his career.
Also, along these lines, some folks here were wishing that we would have made a Rip for Boozer trade. Boozer, as well as he’s played for Chicago, is not necessarily a high-character guy. Would do something like that, in the future?
it's true, and I mostly agree
I was a big supporter of TMac until he started talking about turning our team into a reality show and the turning on Q fiasco. After that, I was done. I didn’t expect him to have a new found attitude that would lead us to the promise land, but I’m sure JoD thought the Pistons culture would have an impact for the better, which it didn’t. His price was fair though, and the rest of the team was such a disaster that I can’t completely hate the signing in hindsight. I still refuse to like a similar move this off season or next.
As far as Boozer goes, I would do that too. Of course, I never viewed him as that level of a cancer. He may not have been considered a high character guy, but he wasn’t “this is my team, you’re just on it” or “practice is for people not as good as me.”
I’m with TJ. I agree with everything but #7. TMac was a marvelous success, except for that incident with Kuester getting ejected. While that pissed me off quite a bit, you can’t ignore that Joe was right to bring TMac on board when most other GMs were wrong.
Other than that, though, awesome post.
I never thought that T-Mac was really a plus
Agreed, he played better than most thought he would and had a particularly nice stretch about mid-season.
But in the end, we got about 20 good games from him. If the Pistons were the Spurs or even the 76ers, that would be great. But he was either unavailable or ineffective for half of the season, he added to the guard confusion (sort of, in my mind, preventing any serious reevaluation by management), and the team still just won 30 games.
He played better than expected, sure. But did he make the team any better this year? Is there any future value in T-Mac for this team? No way. I can’t call that a “marvelous success”. Perhaps if JOD had shopped him to a contender—and I can’t imagine why he was holding on to him. But that didn’t happen.
My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)
by MrHappyMushroom on Apr 14, 2011 6:03 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’d say it was a personal success for T-Mac, insofar as he didn’t crumble into a pile of dust on the floor. He didn’t help us that much, but I actually enjoyed rooting for him in the first half of the season, hoping he’d have a breakout game or contribute in ways we weren’t getting from Stuckey or Bynum.
by garrettelliott on Apr 14, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
One large point of success
I think when T-Mac was forced into playing Point when Stuckey was out was an eye opening experience for Dumars and the Pistons. Now maybe we’ll finally get a replacement for Billups, years later.
Though I’m very dissappointed we couldn’t flip T-Mac at least for a 2nd round pick or something.
To experience the consequences of my own choices. This is why I live
But did he make the team any better this year?
Yes! For a large stretch of the season, he was our best player.
Is there any future value in T-Mac for this team?
I hope not, but I won’t hold out hope until he signs elsewhere.
he added to the guard confusion (sort of, in my mind, preventing any serious reevaluation by management), and the team still just won 30 games.
I disagree. I think he showed that this team can be successful if it has a player who can facilitate the offense as a PG, which hopefully mitigates the urge to sign Stuckey to a bloated contract.
by brgulker on Apr 14, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I just don't see a "marvelous success"
He was, at best, a temporary bright spot on a lousy team. And he really only had a half a season in him. T-Mac was a role player on a team that had no use for one.
I agree, Garrett, that the season was a personal success for McGrady. But I don’t really care too much about that. Good for him and all, but during his mid-season rise, I couldn’t help but feel really sorry for the fans who were reduced to getting so excited about an often-injured guard who was scoring 8 points a game.
My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)
by MrHappyMushroom on Apr 14, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
This was part of my thinking with that point
I admit it’s an exaggeration to lump him with AI simply because of the money and the Billups thing. But as far as attitudes go, I stand by my point. Getting a talented player with a cancerous attitude and hoping our culture can change them enough that they are a net positive is a bad idea. AI’s attitude was damaging. TMac’s had a neutral effect overall, but only because other players were worse. He easily could have hurt us, and would have under other circumstances. We’ve had too much trouble with attitudes the last few years to risk that this season.
TMac was about as good for us as we could have realistically expected
I don’t recall anyone expecting more than 20 good games from him. Of course he wasn’t a great fit for the team in that yeah, he created even more of a logjam at guard, but that’s hardly his fault. Unless “being a better point guard than Stuckey for significant stretches” is a fault.
My point is, he was IN NO WAY comparable to AI who was horrible on the court, horrible in the lockerroom, and horrible for the team in pretty much every major way a player can be.
Finally though, this was just a quibble with one part of an overall excellent post.
I guess I may be alone on this, but I think he showed everyone that Stuckey’s not a PG by playing the PG well himself. And I am sincerely hoping that this tempers Dumars’ desire to overbid for Stuckey.
Stuckey is useful, but he is what he is, and I think McGrady actually helped to show that this season. That, in my view, is an important long-term implication (or at least it is to me).
despite playing a good chunk of his season as a SG
Stuckey actually averaged the most assists per game in his career this year. But apparently that just proves that he’s definitely not a point guard?
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
apparently that just proves that he’s definitely not a point guard?
He’s no Ramon Sessions, that’s for sure.
Jai Alai's got the bomb hops, drinkin Belgian styles from Cooperstown to Comstock.
by Mike Payne on Apr 15, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Boo, I sometimes wonder if we watch the same Rodney Stuckey.
Is there any chance that we are actually inhabiting parallel universes that only intersect on DBB?
Stuckey the player vs. Stuckey the stats are two different animals. I’ve found that watching him doesn’t match up with his box scores at all.
by garrettelliott on Apr 15, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
source code'd.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I enjoyed it...
although it was for a team off-site so I didn’t pay for it. But it was much better than I expected.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I was...
…pretty upset that Dumars wasn’t able to move McGrady for something/anything of value before the deadline…he took an intelligent (in my opinion) flyer on a high-risk, high-reward guy, where the best possible scenario would have been that McGrady would have brought back a future pick/competent young player from a contender in a deadline deal. And he stayed on our team for no apparent reason…
Great post FWIW…I agree with everything you wrote. Good luck to us all…
Scott Hastings was the greatest player in the league in Bulls vs. Lakers.
Good post
My thoughts:
1) Yep.
2) Gordon is impossible to get rid of, unless Joe is willing to part with draft picks (or Monroe). Hamilton will be expiring, and so should be moveable. Joe should turn that into an asset of some sort heading into what should be a hot FA market.
4a) To be fair to Joe, he did draft Jerebko in that round, and even the Spurs passed on Blair (late in the first round), as did a number of very good GMs.
3) Are we set at the SG/SF positions? That is not clear to me at all. If there is a steal (a la Greg Monroe or Ty Lawson) at the tougher positions, of course he should take it. But if there is real talent on the wings, I say we pounce on it.
But yeah, some long, athletic dude who shoot 41% from the field is not a good add.
4b) Prince is going to demand the MLE or equivalent. He’s gone.
5) I agree. 4 yrs at $25 million strikes me as fair value. He has improved every year, and I think he has a bit more in him. My gut is that someone will throw $9M at him, which is ridiculous.
6) Yeah. Depressing what this has turned into. Of the two contract signings, CV seemed like the best risk.
7) We got our money’s worth with T-Mac. If this were a playoff caliber team, that would have been a great signing. Joe D. needs to understand that age is a tangible factor and that fame in a non-factor when it comes to wins.
8) Yes. By my lights, Joe D’s strength is that he is a good businessman. Signing Rasheed may have been a no brainer, but he was the one who put his team in a position to do it, and to capitalize off of it.
He is a poor judge of NBA talent generally, but he does seem to know value. He has yet to dispense a max contract, for example. For that reason, I have some hope, especially if he is willing to hire on the Arnie Kander of advanced statistics (seriously, there have to be some MIT grads out there willing to change a franchise for $90k per year).
4b)
3 could have an asterisk
If he does manage to put just about all of these in motion, a wing player might be necessary. Specifically, if he gets rid of Rip/BG and Stuckey costs too much. The SF situation depends on what he does with Prince of course. But even if he goes, I’d rather throw the minutes at Daye/JJ than draft another SF. I agree it’s not clear if we’re set at both right now. But in my eyes, we’re very likely to be set enough at those positions (this season) to make drafting them unnecessary.
I also had a thought about stats last night that didn’t carry over to today. His job doesn’t hinge on it though. If he pulls most of these off without a stat guy, so be it. But I agree that he will probably land better talent in these moves, and therefore a better chance at staying employed, if he gets one.
correction. hamilton has 2 years left on his contract. its not expiring
Fear the Suh
by d_ronii on Apr 14, 2011 1:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
wow, I'm honored to be on the page...
…and a bit speechless. Thanks MW! Definitely unexpected; I hoped for maybe a few comments at best. I wouldn’t have had to answer to criticisms that way, but I’m happy to do it! I’ll use replies for that to make it easier.
Also, a disclaimer:
Most of these points are not to be confused as rules to abide by forever. I’m talking only of his year of redemption. Given our situation, he’s in a tighter spot and needs to regain some credibility before he can explore those risky avenues again.
Do not be tense, just be ready,
not thinking but not dreaming, not being set but being flexible.
The Piston’s future holds many possibilities. Let them all include The Moose.
Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water... Be water my friend.
by TheyCallMeBruceLee on Apr 13, 2011 8:00 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Regarding Wing Players
I think if Jerebko comes back healthy, we’re fine at SF for next season. Daye and Jerebko can easily man that position while we’re rebuilding. I think this year’s draft pick needs to be invested in a big man first or point guard second.
Regarding bringing Tay back, I sort of take back what I said above. I’d like to see him retire a Piston, but he’s not worth more than a Chris Wilcox deal to this team, and he’ll certainly command more somewhere else.
And about Wilcox, I’d try to bring him back on a short term deal. He and Monroe were a nice starting frontcourt to close the season, and if he’s cheap and short-term, well, we almost have to sign him. All that’s left otherwise is Monroe, Max, and JJ.
You forgot about CV! He'll always be here!
Not that I want to think about him either.
"You’d be surprised what you can accomplish if you’re not concerned with making sense!"- PS
Maybe. But I still like him at 3 until I see him, I guess. But my point was more that if Tay’s gone, Daye and JJ are the natural fits to split time at that position, which would be fine for this season.
I prefer him at the 3 too
I’d rather have a bigger/tougher 3 than a kinda-undersized 4.
It's gonna take a lot of fireworks to clean this place up.
I mostly disagree with 5.
For two reasons:
1) Bynum is actually less effective in extended minutes than he is in bench minutes (I hate referencing my own posts, but the Will Bynum MPG Analysis).
2) If JoD moves Rip or Ben (and I’d actually prefer Ben to Rip), re-signing Stuckey as your 3rd guard for say 4 years, $25M would be fair and worth it.
I also disagree with 7, but I have a soft spot for Stuckey.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Apr 13, 2011 8:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I loved those posts of yours
Really, I think it depends on which SG stays and starts between BG/Rip. If it’s BG, then Stuckey should probably still start to compensate on D for his size (pairing him with MFWB could be ugly). And vice versa. As long as Stuckey isn’t playing starter minutes at PG and getting starting PG money, it’s fine. I expect him to still play some PG, as I completely view him as a combo.
I'm with you
I was with Greg, too, until :
5.) If you keep pretending Stuckey is our PG, you’re fired.
This means drafting a real one if you can, or making it known that MFWB should be starting.
I have no problem keeping Stuckey as the starting PG, as long as we don’t overpay him. At a reasonable price, he’s a reasonable player. But making Bynum the starer was never a great option, and is even worse after watching him towards the end of the season. He’s no less a “combo” guard than Stuckey is. He’s just smaller.
by Big Z in Orlando on Apr 14, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Clean house
Honestly, except for Greg Monroe, I hope Gores cleans house. I’m over Joe D. Next. Q has to be out. No discussion needed. After what I saw from Rip and Tay this season, I’m not sure I could respect either of them. And neither excites me about being part of this new era of Detroit bball. A new era needs fresh faces. Monroe, Bynum, and Jerebko can stay. They should get a decent draft spot (as long as Joe D doesn’t blow it, if he’s still around). Gores might have to take the luxury tax on the chin for a season or two to bring in some talent until Gordon or CV’s contracts are better trade bait. Things can really only go up.

LIL’ BYNUMITE
&

PINCHE AVION
MONROADWARRIOR, beyond rookiedom

a NEW BREED of bronco ass NBA Cannibals ready to die & down for their crowns you dig..
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
by Skylar on Apr 14, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Greg Monroe's a Bad Man
I hope Greg knows he can’t bring that short barrel to work with him.
Thanks to Gilbert Arenas, I think the entire league knows that.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Makes him more aerodynamic, dog.
WORD PLAY
by Biz Markie Moon on Apr 16, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
disadvantage in the post though...
you can’t stinkface your opponent while posting up.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
He doesn't actually need to shave
He grows no unseemly body hair, and instead of unpleasant odor he emanates a pleasant combination of the scent of a fresh rain and lemon zest.
It's gonna take a lot of fireworks to clean this place up.
by Shinons on Apr 16, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Nice Work! Mostly agreed, with a couple quibbles.
1. IMHE, because of the ‘stons roster and salary commitments, the team isn’t going to be good for at least another two seasons. I really liked Q’s handling/development of Monroe. I’d prefer Laimbeer, but for whatever reason Jod seems very unlikely to go down that road. But still, I’m in the; Q ain’t that bad and will be cheap and easy to ditch if/when the Pistons roster gets better, camp.
2. +1, yes please.
3. I would favor this clarification: “Draft another ‘combo guard’ or ‘combo forward’ and you’re fired.” A well above average SG or SF is fine. More players who don’t have positions —> not fine.
4. +100.
5. Stuckey is average and a guard. The team has plenty of average guards, regardless of whether Stuckey is a PG or a SG. If Jod lavishes him with a big money deal it is possible I will not be able to stomach watching the Pistons play more than a couple times a year for a while.
6. Sadly, looks impossible. IME, the moment to dump CV was last year when the Cavs were falling over themselves to find a “stretch PF.”
7. I had fun watching T-Mac because of his really amazing BBall IQ, and his signing would have been an easy win if Jod had pawned him off for literally anything of long term value at the trade deadline. No comparison to AI.
8. +1000. There’s no excuse for Jod to be timid over the next two years. The team has almost $40m/year tied up with Rip/Gordon/CV/Max through 2013. Jod’s gonna have to remember how to get creative if he wants to scratch out more than another couple 30ish win seasons.
Nice post, I agree with most points so here are the few I disagree with:
1st 4: most guys in the 2nd round are only project or upside guys, if they were ready or a sure thing they’d go in the 1st round.
3: with Prince probably gone, T-Mac probably and hopefully gone, Jerebko beefing up to be a better 4 and Daye still iffy, who do we have at SG? In fact I’ve started thinking if Harrison Barnes drops low enough, maybe we should draft him (I still prefer Biyombo though).
5. I still don’t know if Stuckey should be our PG or not, and I don’t think I ever will.
greg
on item one you are off base regarding not paying the coach. coach kuester was signed for three years. he just completed his second year. second of all on coach kuester. he is the right person for this turnaround. just put the right players in this organization who can play defense and have a great attitude and will keep their big mouth shut and just play ball. that is how the bad boys did it. time to clean up this mess that started some five years ago because of poor management decisions. hard to coach players who have attitude problems. do you trust stuckey to keep his mouth shut. i dont.
Can someone clarify this?
I had it stuck in my head that we were free to let him go if he finished the season. When I did a quick search before writing this up, a few sources said 2 years with team option for the 3rd. Looking again just now, I got the same result (including DetNews), but Woj reported it as 3 years guaranteed. Anyone?
Even if it is, he still needs to be fired. I completely disagree that he’s the right guy moving forward. The only positive one could argue was the development of Monroe, but I’m not sure how much credit he deserves for that. His lineups rarely made sense. His substitution patterns seemed random. The attitudes were a problem, but his handling of them were inconsistent. There’s just no way he re-establishes his authority and gets any respect from this team. He lost it long ago and there was no turning back.
Per Vince Ellis - FREEP
Kuester, 57-107 in two years with Detroit, is under contract for next season, so Gores would have to sign off on having two coaches on the payroll if Kuester is fired.
by Big Z in Orlando on Apr 15, 2011 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, sadly
Even if it is, he still needs to be fired. I completely disagree that he’s the right guy moving forward. The only positive one could argue was the development of Monroe, but I’m not sure how much credit he deserves for that. His lineups rarely made sense. His substitution patterns seemed random. The attitudes were a problem, but his handling of them were inconsistent. There’s just no way he re-establishes his authority and gets any respect from this team. He lost it long ago and there was no turning back.
The thing that pissed me off the most about this season was the near-wholesale lack of professionalism by the Detroit Pistons towards John Kuester. That goes for every shitbird sourpuss diva who couldn’t be bothered to enter a game when asked, every snotrocket sucka who boycotted fucking practice, and that also goes for Bro Dumars, who acted every bit the part of fat garbage™ (FS31) and remained quiet as kept when his players were treating their headcoach like some sort of shitheel. This last bit is important- I don’t fuckin’ care if you’re hamstrung by Karen Davidson or not. Do not let your 30-52 squad treat their coaches like this. The NBA read and saw all this shit unfold and this is bad for future talent.
You guys all made a mess of this franchise in 2010/11. You shamed the city of Detroit, to a degree. Bad Boys, in all the wrong ways.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
by Skylar on Apr 15, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
This is an contentious environment that Dumars has allowed to fester for several years now.
The players were often openly disrespectful of Flip Saunders, yet Dumars never came to the defense of his head coach. Instead, he caved to the players’ complaints and let them run Saunders out of town. The players wanted Curry. The players said they respected Curry. The players offered him the same level of respect they showed Saunders and, again, Dumars caved to their demands. With Kuester, the players haven’t showed him the slightest bit of respect because, well, they don’t have to! Dumars has let this kind of behavior go unchecked for far too long. He’s let the inmates run the asylum, so to speak, and like you said, that’s been the worst part about this whole season.
by Grant E. on Apr 15, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
This is part of why I want Laimbeer
He may not be a proven NBA head coach, but he is a proven hard ass. Dumars desperately needs to set a new precedent this time around for obedience and respect for the coach. I don’t have faith that he will though. Luckily, Bill wouldn’t put up with that shit if Joe continued his trend.
I don't think Bill would allow the trend to continue
And that may be why JoD hasn’t hired him. Bill is a very strong minded, strong-willed individual. In order for JoD to still feel like he’s the man with the plan, he can’t have a strong-willed coach in place.
Carlisle is strong-willed and he canned him for Larry.
Larry was a flake.
Flip, Curry, and Kuester have all been weak-willed coaches who just take it from their players.
And Avery Johnson, a coach that is pretty much defined by his strong-willitude, was turned down under the guise of concerns for offering him too many years and to a lesser extent too much control.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
To be fair,
Joe said publicly that he wanted to keep Carlisle around. Mr. D didn’t like him and told Joe to get rid of him.
"You’d be surprised what you can accomplish if you’re not concerned with making sense!"- PS
suuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrreeeee....
i toooottally bet that’s what reeeeeeeeeallllly happened.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.






















