Should the Pistons replace John Kuester with Mike Woodson?
by Matt Watson on May 3, 2011 9:20 AM EDT
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PrintIs there any coach in the NBA with less job security than John Kuester? His two seasons in Detroit have been wildly disappointing, and while he can rightfully point to have inherited a flawed roster anchored by petulant veterans, he's the easiest to replace and thus the most likely to be scapegoated by a new owner looking to make a fresh start.
If Kuester is fired, who should replace him? Perhaps former Hawks coach Mike Woodson, who served with Kuester as an assistant under Larry Brown in 2003-04. Perry Farrell of the Detroit Free Press recently spoke with Woodson about his lone season in Detroit during the Pistons' title run:
"Before I came to Detroit, I worked for various coaches," Woodson said. "All of them were good for me, dating back to Chris Ford, who gave me my first opportunity to coach. Then George Karl and Randy Wittman, and all those guys were wonderful coaches. But when I got with Larry Brown it just ... My attitude really changed about my approach to coaching because he was so organized, not that the other coaches weren't. Larry was just a little different. He delegated and gave us responsibilities. He treated you like you were a head coach.
"You normally have some type of conflict down the road. We had nothing. That team was so close-knit. It was meant to be."
This isn't the first time Woodson has been mentioned, and I suspect it won't be the last. He was canned in Atlanta following a series of playoff disappointments, but before that he was lauded for his slow-but-steady success in turning the Hawks into a contender. After winning just 13 games in 2004-05, the Hawks proceeded to win 26, 30, 37, 47 and 53 games over the next five seasons. (Incidentally, the Hawks slipped to 44 wins in their first season under Larry Drew.)
If nothing else, Woodson comes with a track record of taking a team from the lottery to the playoffs. (Granted, signing Joe Johnson in 2005 kickstarted the development, but the Hawks didn't do Woodson any favors by taking Marvin Williams second overall over Deron Williams and Chris Paul that same year.) As for developing young players, Josh Smith, Josh Childress and Al Horford came into their own under Woodson's watch. And at least from afar, he seemed to do a decent job handling his veterans, especially transforming Jamal Crawford from a gunner without a conscience to an efficient sixth-man.
If Kuester is canned, I'm not quite ready to give a full-fledged endorsement for Woodson, but of the candidates Detroit would likely be looking at, you could certainly do a lot worse. Woodson said he's already interviewed for the vacant Rockets' job, so here's to hoping Tom Gores/Joe Dumars make a final decision on Kuester's fate soon.
What say you? Who do you want to coach the Pistons next year?
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Nice write-up, Matt! I’m convinced. Even though I never thought too much of Woodson, I think it’s fair to keep him on our short list. I’d prefer Laimbeer or Rick Adelman, but would be happy with Woodson rounding out that third slot. His track record with teams-in-transition speaks for itself.
Jai Alai's got the bomb hops, drinkin Belgian styles from Cooperstown to Comstock.
I'm curious about Rick Adelman, but not for a real reason.
When I fired Kuester on my 2k11 team I didn’t hire Adelman but the computer generated coach I did hire looked exactly like Adelman. I started the year 10-0.
That’s science right there. You can’t fight that.
by garrettelliott on May 3, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Find a new GM, then be successful in the draft, finally, reform the roster. Then next year, worry about the coach.
That’s my epinion.
Is Kevin Pritchard looking for work?
Would we want him if he was? (legitimately asking, cause I have no clue)
by ozymandius1024 on May 3, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Oh my God yes
Kevin Pritchard’s made a few mistakes, but nothing I would say is too insane. The elephant in the living room is obviously Greg Oden. However, Brandon Roy was drafted a year or two before, so I can see how a center would be first on the list of needs. This isn’t a huge excuse for it. Then there was the whole, “Don’t sign Darius Miles or I will punch you in the throat” fiasco. I did find it amusing that the Grizzlies signed Miles out of pure spite.
But look at it this way: the things we like about Joe Dumars (few as they may be) is that he’s good late in the draft, and players respect him. I’m for firing Dumars, understand this; those two things together aren’t enough to justify signing Chuckles and Gordon, or for any GM (people say that Isiah Thomas wasn’t bad at drafting either). But if there’s one place that Pritchard shines, its the draft. The guy dominates the draft. And if you want to talk about ineffable qualities, is there any person who’s more of a crazy badass in the draft? Just look at his track record: he’s near unstoppable. Overall, when you consider his record, I say that, in the words of MF Brgulker, if we signed Kevin Pritchard as GM, I wouldn’t wear pants for a week.
WORD PLAY
by Biz Markie Moon on May 3, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d say that Sam Presti and the Popovich/Buford team are in the same badass neighborhood when it comes to the draft. You could argue if they are more badass or not. But I’m pretty sure those three are all intertwined in a career pyramid of influence.
I’m not for getting rid of Dumars, but Pritchard is the best available candidate to replace that I can think of. How he was fired does worry me though.
Yeah, the Spurs are like the Yardbirds of badass GMs.
WORD PLAY
by Biz Markie Moon on May 3, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. We trained Presti, and if I’m not mistaken Pritchard used to work for us too. Of course, we owe Pop to Larry Brown- I think most everything good in the NBA can be traced back to him.
Free Steve Novak
by SpursfanSteve on May 3, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Please, do not besmirch the good name of Little Richard.
Larry Trail of Tears Brown is a vagabond hobo traitor. Pathological sketchball.
Little Richard never interviewed with a conference rival while simultaneously coaching a team in the NBA finals.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
by Skylar on May 3, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
He fucked up Pat Boone real good though
“Tutti Frutti” had been a big hit for Little Richard and Specialty in October 1955, reaching #2 in the R&B charts. Pat Boone’s cover version of the song reached #12 in the pop charts. Although this meant an unexpected cash income for the Specialty publishing firm, A&R man and producer “Bumps” Blackwell and a proud Richard decided to write a song that was so up-tempo and the lyrics so fast that Boone would not be able to handle it (Boone eventually did record his own version, getting it to #8).
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Rec'd for awesome screenname
Ozymandius is a sweet (and rather obscure) poem. Rec for being a nerd!
"You’d be surprised what you can accomplish if you’re not concerned with making sense!"- PS
Unless he's named after the guy from "Watchmen."
Terrence J. is feeling a bit fishy...
by Trout Jefferson on May 3, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Which would also be pretty cool
"You’d be surprised what you can accomplish if you’re not concerned with making sense!"- PS
I don’t care what the nerds say — I thought the movie was a good adaptation.
by garrettelliott on May 3, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It was, but only as a companion piece. I can’t imagine anyone not familiar with the source material enjoying that movie.
This signature is false.
My wife certainly did not enjoy it. :(
by garrettelliott on May 4, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
too sensationable
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
I did.
And I’d never read anything about it. May have at one point looked something up on Wikipedia, but that’s about it.
Free Steve Novak
by SpursfanSteve on May 4, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Any thoughts on Kevin Mchale? Or Mark Jackson? Either of the Van Gundys? Just curious what yall think of them.
I def thought Woodson deserved better than what he got in Atlanta. He’d be a good fit.
Free Steve Novak
I’ve been mentioning for a few years here that I’m a fan of JVG as a coach. Plus, it would be nice to get him out of the commentator’s booth so we wouldn’t have to hear his critique of Water For Elephants. Listening to him go on and on about the refs makes me wonder if the league would rather have him off the court, though. His brand of basketball kind of died in the late 90’s.
by garrettelliott on May 3, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I feel like Mark Jackson would be a better coach than commentator. That’s just a gut feeling, though, and part of me feels like if he is serious about wanting to coach in the future he needs to put in the rounds as an assistant, first.
Free Steve Novak
by SpursfanSteve on May 3, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that he’d be a better coach, but only because he couldn’t be much worse than he is as a commentator.
With any luck?
Jeff Van Gundy.
This signature is false.
by heWizard on May 4, 2011 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don’t get it? It’s supposed to be a tear caused by Birdman’s scathing comment.
by garrettelliott on May 4, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Ha!
Maybe this will start a vicious “Mark Jackson killed a man!” internet roomer.
by garrettelliott on May 4, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
You got at least one friend
JVG sounds like a dope on TV. I don’t want him as a coach.
With a guy like Adelman available, it’s not clear why anyone would entertain JVG or Marc Jackson. They are both tools in the same box.
I’d rather give Laimbeer a shot than hire either of those guys.
by Big Z in Orlando on May 5, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally I’d rather see Kuester back. To continue allowing players to get coaches fired will only teach the young players that we’re trying to build this team around that it works. Kuester’s win/loss record resembles the talent of the team, he’s done a fine job developing young players, and if he’s fired it’d be more because of the problems in the locker room than the product on the court – sounds pretty similar to Woodson.
Really I guess the biggest thing is that at some point we’ve got to stop spinning our wheels at head coach and figure out that the grass ain’t any greener on the other side.
by Shinons* on May 3, 2011 10:57 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
If it were up to me, the players who were behind the drama issues wouldn’t be resigned next season. Since the remaining players (with the exception of Charlie and Rip) weren’t the problem, I see no issue with letting the coach go. Additionally, the grass was greener on the other side this season, since Kuester bombed the first half of the year and shares responsibility of team morale with its architect.
Goodbye John. You did yourself no favors in the first half of the season, many of which paved the way for the failures in chemistry. In the interest of a full reset, you’re gone— as are the players whose egos were the other half of the problem.
Jai Alai's got the bomb hops, drinkin Belgian styles from Cooperstown to Comstock.
Resigning drama-causing players would be a massive mistake, they can’t avoid drama and JJ is better at the cohesion. For the drama they’re gonna cause the best move would be to trade them now.
by -PS- on May 3, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
But are we sure Woodson’s better? Kuester’s record for his first two years were considerably better than Woodson’s first two. Woodson’s third season wound up with the exact same record as this year’s Pistons and equally bombed the first half – at least, they had the exact same win/loss at the midpoint. If we give Kuester a chance to develop as a head coach, he could prove to be every bit as good if not better than Woodson.
I already know your epinion regarding Kuester, but we might as well argue about it anyway for the lack of anything better to do in this godforsaken season.
we might as well argue about it anyway for the lack of anything better to do in this godforsaken season.
Good point. NO YOU’RE WRONG SHINONS*!!!!
Jai Alai's got the bomb hops, drinkin Belgian styles from Cooperstown to Comstock.
by Mike Payne on May 3, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
AskJeeves 4EVAR!!!!!1!!1!
"You’d be surprised what you can accomplish if you’re not concerned with making sense!"- PS
Totally agreed
I am totally “meh” when it comes to Kuester. I really don’t care if we bring him back or not. But I would be PISSED if we fired him and brought back any of the players who walked all over him last year. We need to fix the culture of this team and that starts by making players realize that they are accountable for their actions and that no one on the team is more important than the coach.
"You’d be surprised what you can accomplish if you’re not concerned with making sense!"- PS
If not Kuester, one of the Assistants
we’d be holding Kuester accountable for his coaching in all of those winnable games, but really, the culture is the big problem. We can keep him through the summer and then half way into the season we can let Q go and let Darrell Walker take the wheel.
Welcome... to the Wallace-hood
I think though that a new owner can have an impact on culture as much as keeping or firing a coach will
Tom Gores comes in and starts talkin to the kids bout workin’ hard in order to achieve what you want in life and making somethin of yourself. Ya see, its for the kids.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
When I was young I didn’t want to play defense either, but I did it for the team. Now I’m a billionaire.
Welcome... to the Wallace-hood
by tads on May 6, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I remember all those episodes of the Josh Smith / Mike Woodson soap opera
..but that wouldn’t make me write Woodson off seeing as though Josh Smith is gonna be a dick to pretty much whoever he feels like being one to. I do see Woodson as an upgrade over Kuester. Kuester is just bereft of credibility in this city.
Losses are damaging, but part of that stems from the culture that manifested over the last couple of seasons here in Detroit. We need a coach that establishes order to this roster, however lopsided Doomars has made it. Shit is so crucial my dude. If the right coach isn’t brought in, that arena is gonna look like a motherfucking ghost town.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
I would rather have Josh Smith than Woodson
Not that this has anything to do with anything. But still, I’d rather have Smith.
I mean, I've always wanted Smith and his beblocks in Detroit
just saying, dude was a dick to Woodson.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
I don't know about the rest of you
But I’m not willing to wait until Josh Smith retires to consider a replacement at head coach.
This signature is false.
by heWizard on May 4, 2011 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was always turned off by Woodsen because of his dependence on ISO
Look how Horford has flourished this year without Woodsen’s stupid “Joe Johnson in ISO, all the time, always,” offense. Look at how far JJ’s stats fell. I don’t think he’d do that with anyone on THIS team, but the lack of imagination from him on the offensive end is definitely worrisome.
How's that for a slice of fried gold?
by Thom not Tom Gores on May 3, 2011 2:19 PM EDT reply actions
Plus, I like a coach with eyebrows. And DaJuan Summers agrees with me.
by garrettelliott on May 3, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
At least
He and CV could bond over it.
Free Steve Novak
by SpursfanSteve on May 3, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
He has eyebrows
They’re just way down there under his nose,
This signature is false.
by heWizard on May 4, 2011 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
If he comes to Detroit there's gonna be a whole lot of that.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
It may not be pretty, but it worked — ATL had the league’s 2nd ranked offense in terms of efficiency in Woodson’s last season vs. 20th this year under Drew: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2010.html
yeah as I understand it, he just didn’t have the drive to coach anymore
I have decided to start a career in rap under the presumptuous name of Dextrorotatory Glucose. However, you may call me "D-Sugar" for short
by bearded thundar on May 6, 2011 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Come out of retirement to coach a dysfunctional lottery team?
It’d be nice but a long shot at best.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
I say we re-sign TMac
And slide him over to the head coaching position. Then he and Kuester can split time at the point whenever TMac is injured, insubordinate or the coaching staff decides to “shake things up.” Plus, I’m not sure if you saw Q’s per/48 minutes from last season, but I’m pretty sure he averaged more assists per game than Stuckey.
This signature is false.
Seriously?
You want the guy who skipped practice and was yucking it up on the bench during “the game” in Philly coaching the team?
by Big Z in Orlando on May 5, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Well played
Obviously my mid-afternoon malaise yesterday was just a bit too thick.
by Big Z in Orlando on May 6, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
coachDP for coach.
I'm off to point the pink pistol at the porcelain firing range.
by Laughton on May 4, 2011 4:23 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
No, God no:
JVG
Mark Jackson
Ewing
I might be interested if we hadn’t just hired two sucky first year coaches:
Laimbeer
Cassell
Ellie
Rasheed
Maybe, but surely we can do better?:
Woodson
Adelman
Mike Brown
YES:
SVG
Larry Brown
McHale
Jon Barry
how does jon berry get a pass on the “sucky first year coaches” list?
by C$ on May 4, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
uhhhh because he bought everyone beer during the 1st round playoffs way back when
And he loves shooting transition threes
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Has Jon Barry even expressed an interest in coaching? His inclusion was facetious.
Totally forgot Laimbeer has actually been a head coach. A very successful one. I’m sold on him, (move over Jon Berry). Lock Laimbeer in the job and throw away the key for ten years. Done.
But am I really the only one who thinks Stan is a good coach? He and Gores would have chemistry!
by Jon(athan) on May 4, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
yeah I refuse to have our team coached by a confirmed alien.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
We need Robocop.
He’s only part human.
by garrettelliott on May 5, 2011 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If we can do better than Adelman, James Van Gundy, Laimbeer, but can’t do better than Kevin McHale and Jon Barry, then I have no idea what bizarre NBA universe we’re in. Probably the one where the Pistons run a lineup of Ty Lawson/Kevin Martin/Russian Kevin Durant/Kevin Love/NeNe aka my nba 2k10 team.
WORD PLAY
by Biz Markie Moon on May 4, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
who is russian kevin durant?
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Some dude I drafted. Super athletic. Shoots the 3. I like him. He’s got moxie.
WORD PLAY
by Biz Markie Moon on May 4, 2011 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Russian Kevin Durant can’t play the point and is a goddamn rogue agent waiting for his day to strike. For the glory he’s going to bring to Mother Russia, your best bet is to place him on a government watch list now.
This signature is false.
by heWizard on May 5, 2011 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
In Soviet Russia....
Guards do not shoot threes.
Guards shoot you!
(Hey, that wasn’t at all funny…)
My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)
by MrHappyMushroom on May 6, 2011 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Jon Barry is a foolish doosh that is relevant only because of his last name. Brent was better, and so was their dad. And he’s never coached before- there’s no way he’d be a better first year coach than Laimbeer (or Cassell or Ellie).
I think JVG is a better coach than SVG, but both are decent.
What about Hubie Brown?
Free Steve Novak
by SpursfanSteve on May 4, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
WRT Jon Barry
He was a useful part of the Pistons rotation. Brent was better, yes, but Jon played for the D. Gotta love him.
If Stan Van Gundy can teach a Dolphin how to smoke, he sure as shit can steer us outta this mess
Voat Gundy for Pistons coach
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
by Skylar on May 4, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"/>
I'm off to point the pink pistol at the porcelain firing range.
by Laughton on May 4, 2011 6:16 AM EDT reply actions 11 recs
Repalce Kuester?
Short answer – yes. More detailed answer, yes right away.
more in a second.
Jai Alai's got the bomb hops, drinkin Belgian styles from Cooperstown to Comstock.
Where the hell is Bill Laimbandwagon?
Yeah, I’m a little tentative about first year NBA coaches myself, but I sincerely feel like he is the best available pick for this job. Detroit needs and has always needed a coach with swagger to be successful. Larry Brown had all the cred, Daly had the cred, and Laimbeer could be the guy who commands instant respect from the players.
If nothing else I think he would have no qualms about punching CV in the side of the head when he starts acting foolish. I’d pay to see that shit.
Something gives me the feeling that, like a newborn, Charlie Villaneuva has a very soft head and punching him would either make him a lot dumber or a lot smarter.
It’s worth a shot.
WORD PLAY
by Biz Markie Moon on May 4, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
the only thing that would make CV smarter is removing the crayon from his nasal cavity.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on May 4, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
rec'd for Homer
But also, think of how much protein his brain is getting that would otherwise be used up by hair.
This signature is false.
never thought of it that way...
maybe thats why he’s so pudgy looking…without his body expending energy generating hair, he’s left with a doughy center.
This is why I believe I’ve been able to stay thin despite epic binge eating in college. Simply put, I am a hairy man.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
"You’d be surprised what you can accomplish if you’re not concerned with making sense!"- PS
by bugman222 on May 4, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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