In Defense of Bill Laimbeer: The right man for the job
by Mike Payne on Jun 20, 2011 6:51 PM EDT
in Detroit Pistons News
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PrintCounted out, glossed over, never had a chance-- if you believe the reports, it isn't likely that Bill Laimbeer will be seriously considered to be the next Detroit Pistons head coach. Why trust a guy like Laimbeer when the bulk of his coaching experience was in the WNBA? Why give him a shot when his temper is more famous than his on-court production? Why consider Laimbeer when names like Mark Jackson, Lawrence Frank, Mike Woodson and Kelvin Sampson are on the board? The answer is pretty simple-- when you break it down, the arguments for hiring Bill Laimbeer are more compelling than the arguments against, and the values he embodies are precisely what this Pistons team needs.
I've read opinions elsewhere that Bill Laimbeer is not the right guy for this job. Fans from other teams have even visited here to ask why we are so optimistic about Laimbeer. I'd like to tackle the main talking points against Laimbeer, starting with my response to that question about why we love us some Laimbeer in Detroit:
We're interested in what Bill Laimbeer represents: hard work, brick-wall defense, a fiery heart and a "f**k you" attitude to the superstars and the rules that were put in place to coddle them. That’s what Detroit used to stand for. There is no coaching candidate that embodies that more than Laimbeer. We want and need that in Detroit so dearly that we have developed a cult following of Laimbeer.
If he hadn’t won several titles in the WNBA and hadn’t performed admirably as an assistant, our preference for Laimbeer would be idealistic at best. But the guy is on his way to a head coaching job, and with Detroit’s needs, I see no reason why he shouldn’t be given that chance by the franchise upon which he built his name.
Bill Laimbeer is "Inexperienced", "Unqualified", "Not ready"
There's a common misconception amongst NBA sports writers, bloggers and fans-- that to be successful, an NBA coach must have a wealth of experience before running a team. Bill Laimbeer has seven years of head coaching experience with the WNBA (while earning three championships) and one year of experience as an assistant coach to the Minnesota Timberwolves. Is this enough to earn the trust of NBA teams? Have there been successful NBA coaches with less experience than Bill Laimbeer? Here are a few examples:
- Pat Riley - after retiring from the league, Riley spent some time as a color commentator before earning a job as an assistant coach with the Los Angeles Lakers. After one season as an assistant, prior coach Paul Westhead was fired amidst a clash with Magic Johnson and Riley took the reins. 1,210 wins later, Riley is a hall-of-fame coach with less prior experience than Bill Laimbeer.
- Don Nelson - more wins than any other coach in NBA history, less prior experience than Bill Laimbeer. Upon his retirement as a player, Nelson was named the head coach and GM of the Milwaukee Bucks in 1976.
- Lenny Wilkins - just a few wins shy of Nellie's record, Lenny Wilkins holds the number two spot with 1332 career wins. Prior to taking over as head coach (and still a player) for the Supersonics, Wilkins had zero coaching experience.
- John Kundla - this hall of fame coach spent his time as a high school coach before spending a few years at the world famous (i'm joking, it's tiny) College of St. Thomas. Kundla coached the Lakers for 11 years to a .583 record.
- Red Holzman - this Knickerbocker's legend coached NY for 18 years to a .535 record with zero prior coaching experience.
- Jerry Sloan - the famed Jazz coach had exactly five days of college coaching experience and one season of assisting before taking the head coaching reins for the Chicago Bulls.
I understand how some could argue that seven seasons in the WNBA may not adequately translate to NBA coaching experience. I understand that, on its own, one season of assistant coaching in the NBA may not be enough to move up to a head coaching gig. However, many of the greatest coaches in NBA history had less experience than Bill Laimbeer, and franchise stories have been made on the decisions to hire some of these legendary coaches. Call Laimbeer "inexperienced", "unqualified" or "not ready", but you could certainly say the same or worse to the luminaries listed above.
Does Laimbeer have the character to be an NBA head coach?
If you're not a Pistons fan, you remember Bill Laimbeer for different reasons than we do. You remember the asshole, the fighter, the flopper, the attitude, the in-your-face bad boy that personified nastiness in the NBA. If you are a Pistons fan, you got to see a different Bill Laimbeer. You saw an unparalleled basketball IQ. You saw the league's best rebounder before losing that title to his teammate Dennis Rodman. You saw a near seven footer with a shooting touch that stretched for miles, one of the league's earliest stretch centers who never shied away from doing damage in the paint. Bill Laimbeer the coach has an unique playing experience to draw from, an experience he applied to his success in the WNBA.
Much has been said about Laimbeer's relationship with WNBA star Swin Cash. While the reports put Laimbeer's taste squarely into question, the performance of Cash was on the decline while the Shock's record held steady without her. After her departure, the Shock secured their third title under Laimbeer. Cash's stardom put a lot of light on Laimbeer during that rough patch, but the reports clearly suggest that no personality was more in charge of that team than Laimbeer himself. The reports of this clash are unfortunate, but the ultimate metric of wins vs. losses remained steady under Laimbeer no matter what the press reported.
Personally, I certainly don't mind if a coach is going to rib his/her players, especially given the alternative the Pistons have seen over the last mutiny-filled season. Can anyone argue that Laimbeer is not a take-charge, dominant personality who will push his players to the best of their ability? Sure, dude may be an asshole at the worst of days, but sometimes that is precisely what the doctor ordered. The time for that, Pistons fan, is now.
Why not Frank, Woodson, Sampson or otherwise?
Quite simply, because Bill Laimbeer is the perfect guy for the job. Of the alternatives, Kelvin Sampson has the most promising collegiate record but the most disturbing ethical history. Frank and Woodson have both been NBA head coaches, and both have failed to keep their jobs. Let's examine each coaching opportunity a bit further:
- Kelvin Sampson - So the dude made a few hundred phone calls that he shouldn't have. So he made a few more phone calls after being placed on probation. It ended his career in Indiana, and showed a lack of respect for the rules that he continued to violate after being reprimanded. If you were a GM, would you trust Sampson not to overstep his bounds? It may be hard to imagine how Sampson could repeat himself in the NBA, but free agent tinkering can have very serious consequences for a franchise. Even if he stays within the rule book, his kind of power trip could lead him to encroach upon the job of the very GM that hires him.
- Lawrence Frank - The Nets front office didn't do Frank many favors as his win record diminished. He was stuck with a pretty terrible roster, and ultimately lost the team while starting off the 2009-10 season with sixteen consecutive losses. The problem is that 2009-10 Nets team looked eerily similar to the 2010-11 Pistons team, featuring an inconsistent, shoot-poorly-first point guard, a young, upcoming big man and a roster packed with sixth men. Frank's identity changed often during those last few years, and this Pistons team is aching for a strong, unmovable identity from its head coach.
- Mike Woodson - Woodson's experience in Atlanta was the opposite of Frank's-- things started poorly, but improved every year that the roster did. His final year in Atlanta, Woodson coached a solid group of players to a .646 record, but was met with an early playoff exit for the third year in a row. Woodson appeared to be good at getting the most out of his players, but he was often the victim of being out-coached by his competition, especially in the playoffs. After 2009-10, the Hawks let Woodson expire, believing they could do better without him. It turns out they could-- after being swept by the Orlando Magic last year, the Hawks trounced the Magic in the 2011 playoffs with a lesser roster. The problem with Woodson-- it's likely that we've already seen his ceiling, and the Pistons may end up finding that out for themselves when it is already too late.
Despite their issues, each of these coaching candidates could make a good head coach for the Pistons. Woodson would be a serviceable interim coach during rebuilding-- he's done it before. Frank may lack the solid vision the Pistons need given the turbulence of 2011, but he too would be an improvement over Kuester. Finally, Sampson may represent the highest ceiling, despite being a potential threat to his team's GM or the legal standing of his franchise.
Why not Bill Laimbeer?
These Pistons clearly need a coach with big brass balls. They need a coach who can motivate and get the absolute best from his players. They need a return to an emphasis on brick-wall defense, a return to the identity that this franchise is built upon. Finally, they need a return to the passion, the fire and the drive that defined not only the Bad Boys of the 80s, but the Going to Work group of the last decade. Between Sampson, Frank, Woodson and Laimbeer, which coaching candidate embodies these values the most?
Bill Laimbeer brought those values to the Detroit Shock, taking them from laughing stock to the best team in the WNBA in his first season. The core players remained the same, but Bill carried them from the bottom to the top. No matter the league, this is a remarkable transformation-- one that is surprisingly and quickly discounted by fans and the media alike.
Even if you ignore the production Laimbeer got out of the Detroit Shock, he has as much or more experience than some of the greatest coaches in NBA history. This doesn't suggest that Laimbeer will join that group, but that the calls for more seasoning are less relevant than they appear. As I said above, the man is clearly on his way to a head coaching gig in the NBA, and it just so happens that the team he built his legacy with is looking for precisely what he brings to the table.
This is an Occam's Razor situation, the opportunity is so stunningly simple that I'm surprised people are even debating it. Everything that the Pistons need in a coach is everything that this man represents. It's not his history with the Pistons that make him the right man for the job, but his history here is what gives us fans an insight into just what he would represent as a head coach.
What are the risks?
The risks with Laimbeer are virtually the same as the risks with Sampson, Frank and Woodson. The roster will still be a mess for whichever coach inherits it. The thing is, we know the ceiling with Woodson, we know the basement with Frank, and we know red flags on Sampson. The next year or two are going to suck, and it's about time Joe gives a chance to somebody he won't be so quick to fire. In fact, it's about time Joe gives a chance to the guy who was seemingly born for the job description we have. This doesn't need to be rocket science. Bill Laimbeer is unequivocally the right man for this job. Not next year, not the year after-- right now.
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MP is my most trusted advisor.
"It might be cool, I don't know... and if not, I don't care."
-Ronald Jenkees
How it didn’t get nominated for Oscars I’ll never know.
by garrettelliott on Jun 21, 2011 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
If you were a GM, would you trust Sampson not to overstep his bounds? It may be hard to imagine how Sampson could repeat himself in the NBA, but free agent tinkering can have very serious consequences for a franchise.
I think this is a rrrreach…
Say you’ve dumped a bunch of cap space to splurge in free agency. Take the Miami Heat for example. If Sampson was the coach and they traced even a single call between himself and more than one of Miami’s three, the media lens would be on that situation in a snap. Is it likely? No. Is it worth mentioning? I thought so.
What I see of greater likelihood is Sampson over-stepping his bounds and trying to jockey for more control over personnel decisions. What’s to stop Sampson himself from side-stepping Joe and calling up a coach/gm/contact at another team and telling them he’s having a problem with Pistons player X and has interest in their player Y? I’m not saying this is entirely likely either. But dude has exhibited that he’ll go far beyond the rules— even when he’s under investigation.
Who knows, maybe such a drive to get good players isn’t a bad thing. I think Sampson would do well in a scenario where he’s both coach and GM. As such, I don’t see him accepting the role of the coach alone without reaching too far.
Got Hubie Brown's moms on speed dial.
by Mike Payne on Jun 20, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think it's a completely different situation at the college level
At Oklahoma and Indiana, Sampson was THE GUY. Yes, there was an AD and other people above him in an organizational sense, but Sampson was the guy in charge of everything related to the team itself. I think (and hope) he realizes that he’s not a lone wolf in the NBA.
That said, I agree with just about everything else. I want Laimbeer.
by Rob Rogacki on Jun 21, 2011 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
This has been my gut feeling about Sampson.
It’s not that the rules he REPEATEDLY and BLATANTLY violated as a college coach are in any way a part of the pro game.
But doing it twice and leaving ruined programs behind suggests some major questions about his ethics. But even if we don’t care about that—ethics aren’t a huge part of any sport, particularly the pro game—we should care about a coach’s judgement.
And to make the same mistake twice, despite knowing full well the consequences, tells me that Kelvin Sampson’s decision making skills are suspect. No, he won’t create a scandal by texting. But I can’t help but see him as judgmentally impaired, and more likely that some other candidates to not have the self-control to avoid a colossal blunder.
My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)
by MrHappyMushroom on Jun 21, 2011 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
This.
The mistakes he made don’t translate to the NBA. It’s the fact that he blatantly disregarded the rules in the first place that’s the problem.
If you’re going to demand integrity and character from your guys (something I want in a coach), you’ve got to have integrity and character.
definitely worth mentioning
In addition to all the aforecommented, the idea of hiring Sampson goes against everything Dumars and the Sportsmanship award named in his honor (which “exemplifies the ideals of sportsmanship on the court—ethical behavior, fair play and integrity”) represents. I’d say there’ll be a cold day in hell before Sampson is head coach of the Pistons on Dumars’ watch.
by Packey on Jun 21, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My problem with Sampson
Isn’t that he cheated, or that he did so flagrantly. I think it’s generally accepted that most, if not all, college basketball/football coaches go outside the NCAA’s rules in order to gain advantages in recruiting. As the old adage goes, “if you’re not cheating, you’re not trying.”
No, my problem with Sampson is that he was stupid enough to get caught. TWICE. The NCAA Compliance Office is damn near completely incompetent. You’d have to be some kind of fucking idiot to get busted doing the same thing two separate times by that group. MC(was)AFI. JK(was)AFI. I don’t want another fucking idiot coaching these Pistons.
by Grant E. on Jun 21, 2011 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I guess my confusion comes here...
and I’m being serious when I ask this because I don’t, but do NBA coaches actually have the power to make trades themselves without the GM’s permission?
no, they do not
but there’s nothing stopping them from making calls to other teams when they shouldn’t, trying to subversively over-reach the GM.
Got Hubie Brown's moms on speed dial.
I don't...
Coming out of the lockout, there is going to be increased scrutiny over collusion. That’s going to be a point of discussion. Do you want to bring in a guy with the appearance of impropriety, wherein that appearance is justified?
by Kevin Sawyer on Jun 20, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not part of the Laimbeer bandwagon cult following.
I believe that we as Pistons fans over romanticize the Bad Boy era and are in a constant chase to recapture part of those years.
Those days are over. Put it to rest.
If Laimbeer was never a Piston player, fans would not be clamoring for him now to be named the coach. It’s that simple.
I do think he’ll be a decent coach if given the opportunity, I just hope it isn’t with Detroit. He needs to go out on his own. Find new stomping grounds where he can establish himself. Likewise we don’t need to be chasing the past.
Personally I don’t like any of the available options for us. If Adelman was in the mix I’d be happy with him. But as it stands, I most hopeful for Frank getting the gig. But mostly I’m hoping for anyone other than Laimbeer.
by Detroit Buckets on Jun 20, 2011 8:36 PM EDT reply actions
The fact that Laimbeer was a Piston correlates to our interest, but it does not cause our interest.
If Laimbeer was never a Piston player, fans would not be clamoring for him now to be named the coach. It’s that simple.
As I said in the article: “It’s not his history with the Pistons that make him the right man for the job, but his history here is what gives us fans an insight into just what he would represent as a head coach.”
It’s not about recapturing the past, duder, its that what this team so sorely needs is precisely what Laimbeer embodies. As Pistons fans, we got to see that from Laimbeer when he was a player. When he was with the Shock, he brought those values to that team. Does Detroit not need a defensive-minded, basketball brilliant, tough guy motivator at the helm?
Got Hubie Brown's moms on speed dial.
I believe that we as Pistons fans over romanticize the Bad Boy era and are in a constant chase to recapture part of those years.
How, exactly, can one over-romanticize a repeat championship team?
by brgulker on Jun 21, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
wut?
Those days are over. Put it to rest.
Fuck. That.
Did you read the sign on the way in?
by Big Z in Orlando on Jun 21, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 15 recs
Isn't it obvious?
Dude clearly needs to squat more.
That is absolutely, positively and without a doubt the only reason why he gets zero respect
Without a doubt, squats are a cure for everything.
by bearded thundar on Jun 20, 2011 8:52 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
You cramming this meme down our throats has worked perfectly, for I rec you sir
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
by Skylar on Jun 21, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The fact that he was a Pistons player
Means it would be more difficult for the Pistons veterans, who are on their way out (God willing) to stage the sort of theater they did this season. Fan sympathies will reside with the fan favorite.
This wouldn’t work in a vacuum, of course, but Laimbeer’s reputation probably means they wouldn’t consider it.
Also, the dude did what he did, on both ends of the court, with the body of an amateur golfer. He doesn’t get credit for the ways he was a pioneer with the Pistons. He was a different breed of player, to evoke a cliche that rings true here.
It’s not about recapturing the past, duder, its that what this team so sorely needs is precisely what Laimbeer embodies. As Pistons fans, we got to see that from Laimbeer when he was a player. When he was with the Shock, he brought those values to that team.
Who he was as a player has nothing to do with who he will (or is able) to be as a coach. Likewise what he did in the WNBA has zero connection to the NBA. (Who even watches the WNBA?)
Does Detroit not need a defensive-minded, basketball brilliant, tough guy motivator at the helm?
No.
We need a proven veteran who has established respect throughout the league and who is known for teaching and mentoring young players, bringing out the most from them. If we were a step away from being a real contender, I’d be more open to your suggestions. But as it stands, we are a young team that need to be groomed. I want a vet who has an established way of doing things. Not a first year coach will be learning on the job.
Laimbeer may represent physicality and toughness (as a player) with the will to do whatever it takes to win. Qualities I absolutely love from a big man (as a player). But he also brings an ill tempered, reactionary, A-hole persona (as a player) that I don’t want as the coach of my team. I’m also not looking for the stand back & do nothing zen like Phil Jackson. There’s got to be a middle ground. And Laimbeer has not yet proven he has that. And hold your WNBA comments … they mean nothing when dealing with the testosterone and ego’s of the NBA. I seriously question Bill’s ability to deal with attitudes and personalities. I don’t trust him to deal with the situations this team is capable of presenting.
His resume is paper thin. His playing days mean nothing in regards to his coaching ability … which is mostly dealing with personalities … knowing when to push, when to challenge, when to keep quiet. Bill is not that coach. He may never be, if we’re basing things on his playing days. He’s probably the last person I’d put in a management position if I were to focus on who he was as a player.
by Detroit Buckets on Jun 20, 2011 9:25 PM EDT reply actions
If we were a step away from being a real contender, I’d be more open to your suggestions. But as it stands, we are a young team that need to be groomed. I want a vet who has an established way of doing things. Not a first year coach will be learning on the job.
So if we were on the verge of a championship, you would be okay with a rookie coach who possesses a “paper thin” resume, but as we are young and seemingly light years from a championship, we need a veteran (not to mention expensive) coach to get us the 8 seed in the playoffs? I don’t follow. If we had replaced Rick Carlisle in 2003 with a Minnesota Timberwolves assistant, I think several eyebrows would have been raised (except for Mike Woodson’s, because he doesn’t have any).
I will give you that JOD’s approach since Larry Brown’s departure has been lacking if not idiotic, but Laimbeer should not be judged on the coaching talents of Michael Curry and John Kuester. And MFMP’s point is that, given the state of our team, its needs and its reputation the last several seasons, what’s important about Laimbeer is what he represents: a passion for defense, a no non-sense approach and a penchant for winning at the game of basketball.
His playing days mean nothing in regards to his coaching ability.
He’s probably the last person I’d put in a management position if I were to focus on who he was as a player.
So his playing days don’t matter at all and yet his playing days make him unqualified. Which is it? It is a joke that you would discredit Laimbeer because of his playing style in the NBA. Can you even tell me what type of player Phil Jackson was? Your assertion seems to forget that he is a man and a professional. I guarantee you he would not have coached on any level, much less at the pinnacle of the sport, if he did not conduct himself professionally or posses the ability to stop himself from punching players in the face or whatever it is you seem to think he’s doing on the sideline in a suit.
Who even watches the WNBA?
This one is a bonus: Since when does viewership determine what game is being played and by whom it is being coached? The point is that he coached basketball on a professional level and won. Repeatedly. What more should he have done? You don’t think he understands the difference between the NBA and the WNBA? Something tells me he has a much better idea of that distinction than you do. I would even go so far as to say that WNBA coaching experience is at least as legitimate if not more legitimate than coaching experience in the NCAA. It is at least similarly constructed (drafts, divisions, playoff series, the best players in their sport, constantly on the road, etc). That, to me, is more telling than having some white 5th year, 6’10" farm boy from Wisconsin pulling down rebounds and shooting jumpshots that count for 3 points (yes, that is a stab at college basketball).
Brad Stevens just went to the NCAA final 2 years in a row. Lots of people watched those games. Should we hire him?
This signature is false.
by heWizard on Jun 20, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I want a coach to be strong, but loving. Masculine, but sensitive. A man I can lean on, but who needs me too. In short:
Kulpipper and Curkland?
WORD PLAY
hollywoodsloce.tumblr.com
by Biz Markie Moon on Jun 21, 2011 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tango & Cash?
8Ball & MJG?
Dre & Snoop?
E&J?
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Whoa...whoa whoa whoa. WHOA.
Likewise what he did in the WNBA has zero connection to the NBA. (Who even watches the WNBA?)
First of all, just because women are not as genetically inclined to the jumping/general athleticism as men which makes the NBA so explosive does not make the WNBA game any less competitive or the coaches any less intelligent. The WNBA is at the very least the absolute top level of competition for women’s basketball in the world. And he 100% completely dominated the league as a coach.
His playing days mean nothing in regards to his coaching ability …
This is a ridiculous statement. That would be like saying that a doctor’s experience working in a hospital has no bearing on whether they can teach successfully. Is it a guarantee that said Doctor will be a great teacher? No. But it is ABSOLUTELY an important part in determining whether he can teach. Who Laimbeer was as a player, who he played for, and the mentality he had during that time absolutely has a bearing on who he’d be as a coach because he has displayed unwavering characteristics in all aspects related to the game of basketball since he came into the NBA.
they mean nothing when dealing with the testosterone and ego’s of the NBA. I seriously question Bill’s ability to deal with attitudes and personalities. I don’t trust him to deal with the situations this team is capable of presenting.
First of all, player and personnel issues as it relates to under-performing prima donnas is as much the GMs responsibility as it is the coaches. Secondly, you’re saying here that you’re more confident that a hard-ass, bad boy, strong-willed man would be better at managing female personnel (who he has nothing in common with aside from the game of basketball) than with players and personalities in the same league he excelled in? You’d point to your assertion that Laimbeer’s experience as a player should have no bearing in a discussion of his coaching abilities but once again, your claim would be unfounded. The experience that Laimbeer had as a player absolutely plays a part in his ability to manage personalities in today’s NBA.
So in short, no. I completely disagree with you on all aspects of your post.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jun 21, 2011 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would still agree with the assertion that playing days have little to do with coaching ability. They would definitely influence coaching style, but the ability to communicate effectively and impart a skill-set upon another person has little to do with ones ability to play basketball.
Also, with regards to the management of players- i have no knowledge of Bill Laimbeer as a person or manager, so i won’t comment on him directly. I would however argue that whilst ensuring the motivation of staff is an organisation wide responsibility, a line manager (in this case, coach) has the most direct influence over the situation. I think once a coach is unable to handle his roster, either the coach or the players are moved as decided by the GM.
Realistically though, my concerns about Laimbeer being hired are likely unfounded. Whilst fans might be inclined to assume a certain attitude or level of ability based on how he played (as opposed to his coaching record) i think that a Gores-managed business would be different.
It is mainly the arguments that are in favor of Laimbeer that i am against, not him as a coach himself. I think whoever is hired will be hired simply because they are the best candidate and showed the best plan/vision for the team moving forward.
by aussiepiston on Jun 21, 2011 3:21 AM EDT up reply actions
It is mainly the arguments that are in favor of Laimbeer that i am against
This is not uncommon, and it’s also a bit ridiculous.
Got Hubie Brown's moms on speed dial.
Haha
Seems I’ve heard this before …
by patrick_hayes on Jun 21, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Patrick Hayes! Welcome!
I enjoyed your commentary on Laimbeer despite disagreeing with most if not all of it :-)
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jun 21, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How do you define what makes a successful coach and conclude that playing experience does not directly impact a coach's success?
- Ability to communicate?
- Ability to teach?
- Ability to lead?
- Ability to instill confidence in their players and maximize their potential?
Communicate Bill’s experience as a player directly impacts and influences his ability to communicate with players from his team because its his experience as a player that gives him a better understanding of how NBA players think and how a successful team dynamic is balanced.
Teach Bill’s personal experience as a player again directly impacts his ability to coach. Bill was successful as a player and a teammate and the skills he learned over the course of being a player influence
Lead I’m not going to make a stretch on this but my impression is that Laimbeer was considered one of the leaders of the Pistons of old. While being a captain does not directly translate to being a coach, that experience does directly impact the potential success as it helped develop a foundation for leadership techniques.
Getting the most out of your players Did Bill not always give 110% as a player? If he knows what it takes to get the most out of himself, then I think it stands to reason that he has a pretty good understanding of what a player needs to do to get the most out of their potential. That said, I also think being a player to Daddy Rich absolutely has an impact on Bill’s potential success as a coach. Simply put, he was coached by one of the best and in the same way that I look at my boss today and see his success, I seek to emulate the things he’s done as a way towards my own success.
I want to be clear that I’m not saying that laimbeer’s playing days ultimately make him a much better candidate than an individual who has less experience. All I’m saying is that disregarding his playing days when considering him for a head coaching position is not only unfair to Laimbeer, but a narrow-sighted view on evaluating potential success.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
"No experience" - but more than Michael F'n Curry
I just want someone to break the Auburn Hills omerta and publicly ask Joe Dumars what he has against Bill Laimbeer. Because the man deserves the job.
Every coach is a suspect until they win, so don’t give me that experience stuff. Guys with long assistant pedigrees in the NBA are denigrated as Kuester types. Guys with lots of pro coaching experience are denigrated as retreads in the good old boy network. Guys with lots of college experience are denigrated for being “rah rah” types. That leaves Phil Jackson and Red Auerbach, so kiss my ass.
Bill Laimbeer actually assembled his Shock teams in addition to coaching them, and they turned around immediately. Which means that he has a clear conception of his principles, those principles work and he can communicate them. When he started people thought he’d be a screamer who would be too confrontational for women. But he wasn’t, so the new meme is that women will do what he says but men won’t. But of course, today’s NBA player is more spoiled and sensitive than most women.)
Somebody has to be the first to hire a talented coach. This guy fits. And if politics trumps results in the Palace these days, then Joe ought to go. Because he always said it was about winning.
by Spartisan on Jun 20, 2011 9:26 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Someday someone is going to put a WNBA coach in charge of an NBA team and be awesome
And they will make a movie about it with Brad Pitt as the “”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiAHlZVgXjk" >Fuck Tradition, I’m going to throw a chair!!!" GM…
Unless Joe Dumars is that GM, in which case they’ll need another actor to play him. I’ve got my ideas
, 
, 
,
Welcome... to the Wallace-hood
by tads on Jun 20, 2011 10:35 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Wendell fucking Pierce.
WORD PLAY
hollywoodsloce.tumblr.com
by Biz Markie Moon on Jun 21, 2011 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
/because it would be cool
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
“I’m just a humble motherfucker with a big-assed gut.”
WORD PLAY
hollywoodsloce.tumblr.com
by Biz Markie Moon on Jun 22, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
If anyone needs me
I’ll be hanging out in this thread until the news that we’ve hired Laimbeer comes.
by JoeDip on Jun 20, 2011 10:45 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
You’ll be hanging out here for a longggggg time!
by Detroit Buckets on Jun 20, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
buddy
You want Adelman, right? You know you’re not getting him. Your next best option is a guy whose last head coaching experience was 16 straight losses on the way to one of the worst losing streaks for a franchise in all of sports. His current assignment didn’t yield any better results. Read this. This is the most shining piece I could find on Frank. What I take from this article is that Boston doesn’t care if they lose him. He is not necessary to their success. Another thing to take from this article is that he lost his core of players. Do we really want a coach that can’t keep his stars? Coaching experience doesn’t mean shit if you can’t do the job. It’s Peter’s principle. I hear your qualms about Laimbeer’s experience, but what is your rationale behind saying Frank is the better choice?
give me coach LAM
Strong D and Harsh Words and Rebounding bigs and Winning teams.
BRING THEM TO ME
by victor_e on Jun 20, 2011 11:00 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
no sugarcoat, this POST would be better in coachDP style, observe.
give me coach LAM, strong d and HARSH words, rebounding bigs. not just winning TEAM but entire WINNING program. just epinion
by -PS- on Jun 21, 2011 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
or boiled down...
LAM HARSH. TEAM WINNING.
enuff said.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jun 21, 2011 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Everybody knows i would prefer Sampson or Woodson to Laimbeer
But can someone explain to me how the seemingly least qualified candidate can have such universal support on here?
He did well in the WNBA, but i’d argue that is still a long way behind the NBA or even NCAA in terms of skill level. As an assistant in Minny, they were atrocious defensively. What suggests that he is a good teacher of defense?
Laimbeer was a much better WNBA coach than Sampson was an NCAA coach, or Woodson an NBA coach.
Saying the “skill level” is better in the NCAA than WNBA makes no sense. The difference in Men’s and Women’s basketball is largely contained to size/strength/athleticism.
As has already been stated by other people, Woodson is another branch off the Larry Brown tree, which reeks of Jod taking another stab at reliving the past rather than moving on.
RE: Samspon. I’m shocked he has any supporters. He has just as slim an NBA resume as Laimbeer. The history of college coaches moving to the NBA isn’t great — i.e. much better college coaches than Sampson have come to the NBA and failed miserably. Plus, for a blatant rule breaker, Sampson’s teams weren’t even spectacularly successful.
re: Woodson
as I said in the article, he hit his ceiling quite quickly. For all the talent that man had, he did his team no favors in the playoffs, regularly getting out-coached into early playoff exits. This season, with a worse roster and a worse record, they went into the playoffs and trounced the team that swept them last year. I would rather have Larry Drew than Mike Woodson, and that is not saying a lot. We know Mike Woodson’s ceiling, and while he’s a patient rebuilder we would be better suited to give someone else a shot where Woodson has already established a low ceiling.
As an assistant in Minny, they were atrocious defensively. What suggests that he is a good teacher of defense?
I’ll argue the inverse. John Kuester was credited at creating one of the league’s best offenses in Cleveland before coming to Detroit and performing terribly. Assistant coaches don’t have much of an impact on the team’s they work for, and this is also why getting Laimbeer more assistant coaching experience is kind of pointless. It’s hard to credit or blame an assistant coach for the performance of his team. I would look to the performance of Kevin Love, at least on some levels, to credit Bill Laimbeer with part of that development. Could Monroe benefit from a tutor like that— a guy who was a poor athlete but became the league’s best rebounder (and a back-to-back champion)?
Got Hubie Brown's moms on speed dial.
Nice article
My thoughts exactly on Big Bill.
If I were Joe I wouldn’t want any of those other guys covering my backside. Considering
the mess of a roster he has created, he needs a strong RESPECTED coach to run things.
About the WNBA
Question: How many of you in here that are saying the WNBA doesn’t count as experience have ever spent extensive time watching the WNBA? I am a man who has followed the Pistons since I was a little boy, and the Shock since their creation, up until their relocation. Coaching is more important in the WNBA due to the lack of athleticism. They don’t have high-flying dunkers and too many acrobatic players. Much of the NBA’s defensive strategy focuses on stopping people from getting in the lane and penetrating, forcing them to have to shoot. In the WNBA, most of what they do is shoot, so you have to have the ability to will your players to play up on their opponent more than in the NBA. Also, again due to the lack of athleticism, you have less moments where you can just let your team run wild than in the NBA. Your games must be more structured, and Bill was able to get his team to buy into that. He also lost one of his best players to injury and was able to get her replacement to buy into his strategy. Finally, during the last finals the Shock one, he was already using a replacement for his best defender, and his sixth woman (former sixth woman of the year) was out with injury. His point guard was playing while injured. He tweaked the game plan, got his team to buy into it, and swept a very good San Antonio team.
How can you even begin to tell me that this kind of coaching is not relevant to coaching in the NBA, where you have a bit more free reign?
by Tony Dean Michaels on Jun 21, 2011 10:51 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
agreed
I love that this performance is completely inadmissible to some people. It’s both ignorant and sexist. It’s ignorant for the reasons you pointed out— that what Laimbeer did may have been more difficult in the WNBA that it would be in the NCAA or other leagues. It’s sexist because people immediately count it out because it was a women’s league that “nobody watches”.
Got Hubie Brown's moms on speed dial.
See, but if you watched the WNBA closely, can you say that everything about Laimbeer’s WNBA tenure was a success? I’m one of the weirdos that actually does follow that league pretty closely. I also have a good friend who works in the league, so I know how damn hard it is to have success at keeping a team viable.
Basically, any franchise that has modest success in the W when it comes to making money has to absolutely kill it in two areas: they have to win a lot, which Laimbeer did, and they have to have every coach and player committed to PR, handing out tickets, doing events, doing basically any interview request that comes in, etc. I’m not convinced Laimbeer held up his end of the bargain on that front with the Shock.
It’s no secret the dude has never been all that into media/PR. That’s fine and I don’t care honestly. Who wants to get interviewed by Pat Caputo, ya know? But it was undoubtedly part of his job as Shock coach to go above and beyond in that respect. And I have no doubts that, had he and his players been as committed to PR as the other stable franchises in the league, the Shock would still be in Detroit. Let’s face it, despite all the success of that team, no one came and watched them enough to keep them viable. They are arguably the most successful franchise in WNBA history on the court. Laimbeer and Mahorn were huge stars in Michigan. Their best player, Deanna Nolan, is a Flint product who won state titles at Flint Northern in high school. The Shock undoubtedly had the name recognition to attract a fanbase that could’ve sustained that team, but I just don’t think the PR commitment was there, and Laimbeer deserves some blame for that. Admittedly, that shouldn’t overshadow his coaching success, but if we’re going to evaluate his WNBA tenure, it’s dishonest to not look at that other aspect as well.
Now, you might say, “But that doesn’t matter in the NBA.” I would agree with you, if we weren’t talking about him as the dream candidate for the Pistons job. If they hired Laimbeer, he’d be in a position unique to every other coach in the league because he’d be the team’s biggest star next season. Interest in the team would go way up locally. People would buy tickets to see him coach. Those are good things. But they are also things that would put pressure on Laimbeer to do more media, fulfill more interview requests for the more media members covering games and, generally, be put in a position to be marketed around next year. As we’ve seen, he’s not entirely comfortable with that. It distracts from what his passion is, teaching basketball. But it would also be a responsibility he’d need to be mindful of in this particular situation as opposed to if he took a job with another team in another city where he’s not such a local celebrity, or if he took the Pistons job a couple years down the road when they have more established players on the team.
To me, it’s not fair to question his coaching chops. He’s won a lot. His X’s and O’s were the only slight question people had about him in the WNBA, but his ability to teach defense, toughness and effort were unparalleled. But there’s more to just on-court stuff in the NBA, and it’s absolutely fair to question how Laimbeer would handle some of those things. Fan’s probably don’t care so much about that stuff, but the people hiring him certainly have to and should be mindful of it.
by patrick_hayes on Jun 21, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait, wait, wait a minute… So we should be concerned about Laimbeer because he didn’t embrace the PR duties of coaching in the WNBA? ? ??!!?
This is a colossal stretch, Patrick. It feels like you’re grasping at straws to deny Laimbeer’s potential as an NBA coach. I understand you’re not a fan of what he represented in the NBA, and you don’t like the support he has by fans even though it is corollary, not causative. But honestly, do you think you might be stretching the issue just a bit much here? Maybe even more than a bit? Not trying to be a dick here, just trying to establish some objective ground.
Got Hubie Brown's moms on speed dial.
Missing the point
So we should be concerned about Laimbeer because he didn’t embrace the PR duties of coaching in the WNBA?
No, not overall as a coach. As I said, his coaching ability shouldn’t be questioned. But you have to admit, that should Laimbeer be hired, he’d be the No. 1 interest generator for this team. National outlets would cover Laimbeer coaching the Pistons. They’d have way way more media requests. Laimbeer has never liked doing that stuff, but unfortunately, he’d be put in a position with the Pistons where he has to. It’s fair to bring up and it’s fair to ask, given that burden that he’d have to take on as the momentary franchise face as the team rebuilds, how would he handle it?
It feels like you’re grasping at straws to deny Laimbeer’s potential as an NBA coach.
Again, I’ve never denied his potential as a NBA coach. I question his fit with the Detroit job. I question whether it would be a good first coaching job for him. I think there’s a possibility that it could take two or three years for the team to be good again. And if Joe Dumars is the GM, I think it’s fair to suggest whoever they hire may not have the leeway, fair or not, to have two or three losing seasons.
I understand you’re not a fan of what he represented in the NBA
This feels like you’re putting words in my mouth. I have no problems with him as a player. He’s one of the most underrated players of all time. I understand why fans of other teams thought he was a dick. That’s different than saying I wasn’t a fan of what he represented. I loved the Bad Boys and everything he contributed to that team.
you don’t like the support he has by fans even though it is corollary, not causative.
Again, this is oversimplifying what I’ve argued. I don’t believe that he’s scrutinized as much as he should be here because fans love him so much. I include your post in that critique. I don’t think it should be assumed he had such a huge impact on Love in Minnesota and although his WNBA coaching success should translate, I do think it’s fair to bring up differences in the league and the fact that he had personnel control as the Shock GM, which he won’t have in the NBA. You and everyone else who have argued with me on this is still yet to point out why those things aren’t valid. They shouldn’t be deal-breakers that disqualify him from the job, but they should be considerations if we’re going to objectively look at positives and negatives of coaching candidates.
“Maybe even more than a bit? Not trying to be a dick here, just trying to establish some objective ground.”
Honestly, throughout this whole process, I’ve never written that Laimbeer shouldn’t get the job. I just don’t think he’s the breakaway, unquestioned, best candidate. I think he has flaws just like the other guys. But I can talk about Frank’s flaws or Woodson’s flaws and everyone is in agreement. I can’t talk about Laimbeer’s without being portrayed as some kind of character assassin on the dude.
It’s fair to bring up PR because Laimbeer, like it or not, will have PR responsibilities. He’s an established star in the state. He’ll be hoping to instill the long lost Bad Boys/toughness approach to basketball. He’ll be getting his first NBA head job in a place where he’s an icon. There are PR pressures to that that you shouldn’t ignore. Again, maybe it’s nothing. Maybe he’s aware of it and will be fine with it. But it’s not out of the question to discuss it.
by patrick_hayes on Jun 21, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Oops
Should’ve been a block quote, not strikethrough on that portion above.
by patrick_hayes on Jun 21, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s fair to bring up and it’s fair to ask, given that burden that he’d have to take on as the momentary franchise face as the team rebuilds, how would he handle it?
I think you’re far overstating the press responsibility Laimbeer would be having in the NBA, and you’re being too kind to a very fickle media. A month or two into the season, you think the national media would really care about Laimbeer? Would he be in as much PR pressure to sell tickets as he would be in the WNBA? Honestly, give dude an introductory press conference, a handful of interviews in local and national media, then let him do his job. Anything more than that is too much, and I would rather he doesn’t engage the media other than post-game interviews.
I question his fit with the Detroit job
And I’m sorry, but your questions are far, far from compelling. Your greatest concerns with Bill Laimbeer is how he’d handle the PR responsibilities that he shouldn’t be required in Detroit, how he’d handle a potential superstar we don’t have on the Pistons without the political capital he had with the Shock, and… shit I can’t think of anything else.
What about, you know, the coaching?
Got Hubie Brown's moms on speed dial.
by Mike Payne on Jun 21, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your greatest concerns with Bill Laimbeer is how he’d handle the PR responsibilities
When did I say greatest concern? I think it’s worth bringing up, in the sense that there were aspects of the Shock job outside of basketball, that he didn’t handle so well. I never ever said that’s the “greatest” concern.
These are the “greatest” concerns:
- Can he be his hard-nosed, my way or the highway self with limited or no personnel control (other than benching people) as opposed to the free reign over personnel he had in the WNBA?
- I would like to know more about his Minnesota tenure. That team was horrible. That might not be Laimbeer’s fault, but there were feuds over PT between Rambis and Love. I would like to know which side Laimbeer thought was right. Very obviously, Love was right. I don’t like the assumption that it’s a given that Laimbeer helped develop Love. There’s clear evidence that the head coach in Minn may have hindered Love’s development. What is Laimbeer’s opinion on that situation?
- His preferred style/philosophy as a coach and player is clear: toughness and defense. I like that. How do you implement it with a roster full of guys who don’t play much defense and don’t play very tough? Do you bench them all? And would the front office side with Laimbeer over players in disputes, considering they have a history of being very lenient on players?
Those, in my mind, are the most pressing questions I have. That doesn’t mean I don’t think they should hire him. It means I think it’s ridiculous to act as if he’s just unquestionably the superior candidate.
by patrick_hayes on Jun 21, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think you bring up some good points
But I also wonder if in the interest of making your points, you’re ignoring the reasoning behind Laimbeer’s personal attitude towards media as a potential coach. If national media starts covering the Pistons more because of Laimbeer, that is a good thing. If Laimbeer opts to defer to the players, that too is a good thing. I see no problem with Laimbeer opting to be a bit cold towards media…if for no other reason than it would be enjoyable to watch mainstream media try and deal with Laimbeer.
I agree with you that this is an important aspect of the job but the potential benefit of increased ticket sales in the immediate future and increased interest from national media actually outweighs the potential backlash that could come with Laimbeer being unwilling to do interview after interview. Lastly, I think your assertion that the national media will be looking at the Pistons as “Lamb’s team” is unfair to the potential that Monroe displayed in his rookie season. Ultimately, the story at the end of next season could very easily be how Laimbeer helped Monroe improve his numbers to 17/10, develop a consistent 18 foot jumper, and improve his post defense leading the Pistons back into the playoffs.
I see that as a much better potential ending to the season than Lawrence Frank leading our team to the playoffs and garnering relatively little incremental ticket sales or national media interest.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Sorry I got sidetracked and didn't cover my original point
Jsut wondering whether Laimbeer may be cold/off-putting to national media because he simply doesn’t want to take the majority of the limelight for his team. In a league like the WNBA, I agree that his commitment to PR could have been a higher priority but don’t you think he also could have felt that knowing his long-term plans were not to stay in the WNBA, that dishing the majority of the PR to the players themselves, the people actually putting on the uniform, would be a better way to drive long-term fans of the Shock?
And lastly, I think its a bit ridiculous to make a hypothetical assertion that had Laimbeer played a larger role in PR of the Shock, that they would still be in Detroit. They were a loss leader for PS&E and Clay Bennett was looking for a team to poach. Unless they were actually generating positive margin annually, I don’t see any way that Laimbeer’s increased involvement would have saved that team from heading to OKC.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Phil Jackson is the most successful coach of all time.
You can make a pretty strong case that he didn’t “handle” the media very well. And there’s that whole spat and book with Kobe.
Winning covers a multitude of sins.
I got it.
Hire John Salley as an “assistant coach.” Except, he won’t really be a coach, he’ll just be there to deflect the media from Laimbeer with funny quips and Vinnie Johnson stripper stories.
“So Laimbeer-”
“You mean Salley.”
“Yes, Salley. Sorry, we forgot you were his mouth. What do you have to say about Greg Monroe’s MVP award.”
“I tell you what, it reminds me of the time that Isiah Thomas and Fennis Dembo took a couple of Norwegians….”
WORD PLAY
hollywoodsloce.tumblr.com
by Biz Markie Moon on Jun 21, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’m envisioning Laimbeer and Salley doing two-man press conferences like LeBron and Wade, with worse fashion but much better anecdotes.
by -PS- on Jun 21, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd for Fennis Dembo
Sidenote* As a kid I always thought it was Dumbo. He was always my favorite player because I wanted to see him start flying with his ears.
Re:
During the last finals the Shock WON, not one
by Tony Dean Michaels on Jun 21, 2011 10:52 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Swin Cash
I have a few more thoughts on this in a post that will be up at PP this afternoon, but I think you’re missing the key point with Swin Cash. It’s not that Laimbeer was wrong. He was pretty obviously right that Swin was no longer the player she was. And I don’t even care that much that she felt he was cold or disrespectful in how he handled telling her that. It certainly beats the John Kuester method of communicating.
The point is, could Laimbeer handle a similar NBA situation the same way? I think it’s pretty clear that he won’t be able to. The Cash-Laimbeer relationship deteriorated. She challenged his authority, he no longer respected her ability to be a top flight player. His solution was to simply get rid of her. It worked fine, as I said, because it turns out he was right, she wasn’t a player who could carry a team anymore and the Shock had better, younger players, particularly Nolan, ready for bigger roles.
But it also worked because it was the WNBA. Cash was one of the biggest stars in that league at the time, but she still wasn’t a bigger star than a coach, Laimbeer. That will never, ever happen for him if he’s in a similar spot in the NBA. Coaches are never bigger stars than players. If he has a star player with a huge contract who he doesn’t want on his team, he’s not going to be able to just go out and get rid of him, first and foremost b/c he’s not going to also be the GM like he was with the Shock. A comparable player of Cash’s stature in the NBA will be a superstar. It will probably be someone who is insanely popular locally, if not nationally. It will be someone who has a huge contract. It will possibly be someone who sells tickets. In that situation, Laimbeer could very well conclude that player is soft or washed up or a bad attitude or not a winner or whatever. His conclusions could be 100 percent correct. It’s still likely he’ll have to work things out with that player. It’s likely a GM would nix trading that player, except as a last resort. And there’s even a chance that the GM could decide the player is more valuable to keep around than the coach. That happens all the time in the NBA.
I’m not saying Laimbeer doesn’t have an understanding of that. He might. But the Cash situation isn’t so much about him being right that she was losing a step. It’s about how he would handle that situation minus the power to just simply go out and dump the player in question.
It’s likely a GM would nix trading that player, except as a last resort.
I’d argue that most analytically-focused GMs would want to move Cash at precisely the moment she was moved— before her value nosedived. You know, like moving Jerry Stackhouse for Rip Hamilton. It’s kind of surprising to read a critique of Laimbeer’s handling of the situation given that he was right about the team performing better without Cash, and a third championship resulted without her. Kinda feels like you’re kicking the situation upstairs…
Got Hubie Brown's moms on speed dial.
You're ignoring the point
The point is not to evaluate what happened with Cash. The point is to say he’d have less flexibility in a parallel situation involving a NBA player who was a comparable star to Cash. Cash is irrelevant because, with the possible exception of Maya Moore, women’s basketball players don’t bring in a ton of money by selling tickets or merchandise. Winning games a lot is virtually the only consideration when it comes to selling tickets in the WNBA. If you don’t win, you have no chance at being viable for very long. That was Laimbeer’s consideration with Cash, and he made the right call by getting rid of her.
But how long did Philly hang onto Iverson despite his numerous flaws simply because he sold tickets? How long did Toronto keep Carter despite the fact that he was soft and whined about everything? It took Orlando a while to deal McGrady despite the fact that he wasn’t the easiest guy for coaches to work with. They kept those players because there were non-basketball reasons to keep them. Owners had irrational attachments to them or GMs kept them because they couldn’t get close to fair value in return or, in Carter’s case, he’d become the face of basketball in an entire country. Those are situations that just simply do not show up in the WNBA. Those are situations where, in my estimation, it’s fair to say, “OK Bill … how would you handle this?” I’m not saying he couldn’t handle being stuck with a star player he didn’t particularly find useful. My point is we just don’t know.
by patrick_hayes on Jun 21, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
The point is to say he’d have less flexibility in a parallel situation involving a NBA player who was a comparable star to Cash.
Do you think Bill Laimbeer was unaware of his political capital in the WNBA, and had a willingness to use it to improve his team?
But how long did Philly hang onto Iverson despite his numerous flaws simply because he sold tickets?
In the NBA, wins have a greater impact on ticket sales than star players do. GMs and owners are finally beginning to realize that. If you’re Dale Morey, Rich Cho, Donnie Nelson / Mark Cuban, RC Buford or hopefully Joe Dumars / Tom Gores, you not only value wins, but you recognize the point at which a player’s value will nosedive and you move them beforehand. Just like Dumars did with Stackhouse.
Got Hubie Brown's moms on speed dial.
Coaches are never bigger stars than players.
In Pistons land, I can’t agree.
Bill Laimbeer > Ben Gordon
Bill Laimbeer > Charlie V
Bill Laimbeer > Richard Hamilton
And on down the line. Do you think many Pistons fans would really struggle with Laimbeer benching Hamilton after telling him he’s not the player he used to be? Perhaps with a niche segment of fans. But for the hardcore, which are really the only ones following the team closely at this point? I can’t see it.
I think fans would welcome a no-nonsense coach who tells it like it is on all counts. If a few feathers get ruffled along the way, I have every confidence they’d get straightened back out by winning.
by brgulker on Jun 21, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Certainly
But I’m sorry, I really don’t want to follow a team where the coach is the biggest draw. That has gimmick written all over it and once the novelty wears off, what are you left with?
I mean, seriously … what do you think Bill Laimbeer can do with Charlie V or Gordon? How different do you think the roster can realistically get in one offseason, particularly if there’s a lockout? Isn’t it highly likely that the Pistons, minus Prince and McGrady, plus a draft pick, could be a worse team next season no matter who the coach is? If Laimbeer loses for another season or two, I guarantee it will affect how he’s viewed by fans.
Try and remember Dumars during his playing days. Did anyone dislike him? What about after they won the title? You had to dig to find anyone who thought he was doing a poor job. Look at Dumars now, after three losing seasons and all of that successful track record and love as a player and exec. That goes away fast, and anyone who believes it wouldn’t for Laimbeer if the Pistons don’t turn things around quickly is being naive.
by patrick_hayes on Jun 21, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
But I’m sorry, I really don’t want to follow a team where the coach is the biggest draw. That has gimmick written all over it and once the novelty wears off, what are you left with?
I think you could argue that Larry Brown was a bigger star than anyone on the 2004 championship team.
by Rob Rogacki on Jun 21, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
No way
You’re telling me you paid to go watch that team because of Larry Brown? I mean, Ben Wallace was voted as a starter in the All-Star Game that year I believe.
by patrick_hayes on Jun 21, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't watch the team because of Larry Brown
But I also didn’t watch them because of a certain player on the roster either. I liked watching them because they were a great team.
by Rob Rogacki on Jun 21, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Even with Laimbeer as head coach, I wouldn't watch the Pistons for Laimbeer
I watch Pistons basketblal, hell, I eat, breathe, and live Pistons basketball 24/7/365 because I love the game of basketball. And it just happens that a candidate for our coaching position embodies the aspects of the game I love the most (namely fundamentals, defense, work-ethic, and no free chili attitude). Would I be even more inclined to watch the Pistons because Laimbeer is the head coach? No. Because I’ve already hit the max level cap for Piston fandom. But would I appreciate the team on the floor more if they bought in to the qualities that Laimbeer would likely instill. Damn right I would.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jun 21, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd for basketblal and "no free chili attitude"
and for saying what I wanted to say better than I did.
Every time the media covered the Pistons in 2004, it wasn’t about the players and how good they were. It was about Larry Brown finally achieving his dream of winning an NBA championship, with his brother on his staff, and his mother in the stands, and the way he’d pull over at a kids’ park and “coach” the youngsters playing on chain link meshed rims. It was always, always, always about Larry Brown. And even now it, still is — Larry Brown cheated on the team in the finals, Larry Brown can’t stay with a team for too long, Larry Brown wore out his welcome, Larry Brown should have stayed and the Pistons could have won another championship or two. He was the media darling for sure, not the players.
by garrettelliott on Jun 21, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't get me wrong
I agree with your concerns, but I think they’re the least concerning (for lack of a better word) than those of the other candidates mentioned above. Every candidate is flawed. Personally, I’m just happy we didn’t end up with Mark Jackson.
by Rob Rogacki on Jun 21, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
But I’m sorry, I really don’t want to follow a team where the coach is the biggest draw.
As opposed to? It’s not as if the players are drawing the fans out right now. My argument isn’t about drawing fans out, but if it were, that’s how I’d respond.
I mean, seriously … what do you think Bill Laimbeer can do with Charlie V or Gordon?
Bench them.
How different do you think the roster can realistically get in one offseason, particularly if there’s a lockout?
Not very different at all. We’re a losing team for at least two more seasons, IMHO, regardless of coaching.
If Laimbeer loses for another season or two, I guarantee it will affect how he’s viewed by fans.
By the bandwagoners, sure. But I’ve actually defended Kuester, and I’ve been one among very, very few.
This team is going to suck hard as long as the roster looks the way it does. Naive fans will not realize this and continue to clamor about Stuckey’s all star potential no matter who the coach is.
But I honestly don’t care so much about that. I’m not interested in what the fans think is the best choice. I’m interested in Laimbeer because he embodies what I want our franchise to be, and I think if you commit to him for 3+ years, he will at least establish the right kind of culture.
And as I’ve said elsewhere, that culture is really all I’m concerned with among the available candidates.
by brgulker on Jun 21, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
But I’m sorry, I really don’t want to follow a team where the coach is the biggest draw. That has gimmick written all over it and once the novelty wears off, what are you left with?
If the roster stays the same throughout a coach’s tenure, this has merit. If the roster is in development, and lottery picks and trades are bringing in new players, it does not. If the Pistons hire Laimbeer, he’d be a big draw for the first half of the season, then the story’s value would run dry.
I mean, seriously … what do you think Bill Laimbeer can do with Charlie V or Gordon? How different do you think the roster can realistically get in one offseason, particularly if there’s a lockout? Isn’t it highly likely that the Pistons, minus Prince and McGrady, plus a draft pick, could be a worse team next season no matter who the coach is?
You’re preaching to the choir here, Patrick. No disprespect to Matt, Kevin, Packey or hey, myself, but DBB’s greatest value is in its community, as the comments here are usually always more in depth and insightful than how the story starts. The community here is very well aware that the coming season is going to suck, but it’s likely that this team has already hit bottom. With this lottery pick and the one following, an expiring Hamilton next season and perhaps even a contract amnesty clause, this will soon be a team on the ascent. Mike Woodson, for example, had a .159 record during his first season as a coach. Fans need patience in whoever we select, and this needs to be openly communicated by the franchise.
Ultimately, I don’t see how this talking point wouldn’t effect any other coach we select.
Got Hubie Brown's moms on speed dial.
by Mike Payne on Jun 21, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fans need patience in whoever we select, and this needs to be openly communicated by the franchise.
This is the problem though. Has it ever been openly communicated? I mean, has Dumars even admitted yet that this team is rebuilding? Hell, he talked throughout last season about how they had the talent to be a playoff team. I don’t think Dumars really believed that, but he also didn’t do Kuester any favors by extolling the virtues of a flawed roster for two years. I hope there are more honest admissions about the team being a work in progress for the sake of whoever is hired, but frankly, we just haven’t seen that kind of honesty out of the front office, well, ever.
My point has never, ever been that Laimbeer can’t coach or shouldn’t be considered for head coaching jobs. But this just doesn’t seem like the right situation for him. He’ll face more pressure to succeed right away than any other candidate would simply because he’s Bad Billy fucking Laimbeer, and his fans treat him like he’s some sort of ass-kicking miracle worker. Not smart fans, but a lot of them, and let’s face it, we have a Detroit media filled with some not very smart fanboys in print and on radio. Some of them are old enough to have covered the Bad Boys. They’ll write and talk about him a lot. They’ll show up to cover Pistons games even though they never showed up to cover Pistons games the last two years. Then, the Pistons will probably lose. Then they’ll write columns saying, “What’s wrong with Laimbeer?!”
To be clear, I’m not putting that out there to say it’s something the organization should consider. But you can’t gloss over the fact that Laimbeer will be under an immense amount of pressure to succeed that Frank or Woodson or Sampson just wouldn’t have to deal with. Despite that, Laimbeer might still be a better candidate, and if that’s the case after interviews, they should hire him. I just don’t think there’s anything that makes him the clear, runaway candidate at this point.
by patrick_hayes on Jun 21, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
has Dumars even admitted yet that this team is rebuilding?
Does it actually accomplish anything for him to openly say “Our team sucks, time to dismantle it and start anew.” It doesn’t accomplish anything except alienate bandwagon fans and their money. It’s pretty obvious to the actual fans out there that this team sucks, and will suck for awhile. Addressing it in my eyes merely does more damage than actual good.
But this just doesn’t seem like the right situation for him.
I think Bad Billy Fucking Laimbeer would enjoy the challenge. And really, what would be stopping the media from saying that the diva players need to stop acting like a bunch of whiny bitches? To be perfectly honest, the biggest problems this roster may continue to have is a bunch of diva’s continuing to drag this team down just like they have ever since things started rolling down hill. The news will realize this because it will be much more obvious than any of Laimbeers flaws as a coach. The longer this team has sucked, the more and more scrutiny has put on the players as opposed to the coach. And if non success continues into this season with a roster that is similar to that of this past season, than no, no one is gonna be pointing primarily at Bill.
Does it actually accomplish anything for him to openly say "Our team sucks, time to dismantle it and start anew."
No, it doesn’t. I get why Dumars doesn’t say it. But I was responding to Mike’s comment that said he hoped the team needs to openly communicate patience as the team is built. My point was just that the team has never openly communicated the “work in progress” thing all that clearly.
by patrick_hayes on Jun 21, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I see you’re taking a fair amount of fire over your comments, so I thought I’d jump in and admit that I have some similar concerns. Not enough to deter me from hoping he’s hired, but I think a lot of your points are fair. I just have a nagging feeling he’d be put in a similar position as Alan Trammel was when he was hired by the Tigers. Not that he was a good manager or that baseball managers have as much impact as NBA coaches, he wasn’t and they don’t. But there are a lot of similarities in the 2 situations, namely a lack of talent on the roster.
by Other Matt on Jun 21, 2011 1:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And just to add again: my concerns, like yours, don’t necessarily mean I think he shouldn’t be hired. I just don’t know that he’s by far the best candidate. He’s a solid candidate with some flaws just like the rest.
by patrick_hayes on Jun 21, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Laimbeer might get more scrutiny in Detroit than he’d get elsewhere. He’d also get more tolerance than the other candidates.
He’ll face more pressure to succeed right away than any other candidate would simply because he’s Bad Billy fucking Laimbeer, and his fans treat him like he’s some sort of ass-kicking miracle worker. Not smart fans, but a lot of them
Not smart fans, you’re right. Upthread, you talked about people turning on Dumars. Notice that the casual fans still blindly support him. It is some of the smart fans (there’s smart people on both sides of that discussion) who are vehemently against him. By large, the casual fan base is still behind Dumars 100%. Laimbeer is likely to receive the same support.
Got Hubie Brown's moms on speed dial.
Speak for yourself and other MFMP
I’m the lead conductor on the Pistons in the playoffs in 2012 bandwagon.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
AMEN!
Fans need patience in whoever we select, and this needs to be openly communicated by the franchise.
Oddly, a lockout could help accelerate the Pistons road to recovery as it would give them an extra year to look at the lottery player they are likely to get once the league resumes after missing an entire season. They could also emerge as one of the younger rosters rather than having a disjointed mix of youth and long in the tooth vets that currently make up the team and helped produce the circus that was this past season. Whoever the new coach, it would undoubtedly do him no disservice to have a younger, perhaps brow beaten by the new CBA, group of players to mold into a team based on the franchise’s core values – tough, defensive-minded fundamentals. This would be at least a three year process, largely dependent on the length of the lockout. The true fan base has that kind of patience. Laimbeer would help appease the band wagon fans for the first three months and hopefully get the Pistons out of their decade long habit of hiring coaches with a 164 game shelf life.
Shorter Patrick Hayes: Laimbeer improved the Shock from last place into possibly the most successful team in WNBA history, and had a history of being prescient when it came to player development and/or deterioration.
Sounds good to me!
But seriously, anyone who has heard Laimbeer talk can tell he’s a pretty intelligent guy. If we give the man a little bit of credit and assume he realizes that the amount of money involved with NBA players makes it harder to discard them even if they are no longer as productive as before, then all we are left with on his WNBA resume is that he was an amazing f***ing coach.
Laimbeer?
The Pistons will have to change their name to the Detroit Shock-Pistons
I’m for Laimbeer, given the available candidates.
If we don’t get him, I will be disappointed, but I’ll settle for Frank. I want no part of Sampson.
Laimbeer is more well-established than any hire JoD’s made since Larry Brown (well, Flip had some history, but not all of it successful). It would be naive he could turn the W/L situation around in a year or even two, but I have every confidence he would establish the mindset and attitude we all want in our team, and he’d be well-respected among the players.
That’s all I can really ask for at this point.
Outside of Laimbeer..
I really do hate the other options, but Frank is the second best candidate. Unfortunately, it’s not a close second.
He used to coach 15 pussies with the Shock
I’m sure he can handle CV31.
I'm so ahead of my time, my parents haven't met yet
While all of them had vaginas
Not one of them was a pussy.
Bad Girls indeed.
WWGMD?
by Kriz on Jun 21, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah. I'm sorry.
I’m better than that. That was uncalled for. My apologies DBB. Mea Culpa
I'm so ahead of my time, my parents haven't met yet
Laimbeer vs. Dumars
I wasn’t quite old enough to grasp the team dynamic of the original Bad Boy teams. I was old enough to watch and appreciate the winning, but with no internet and being too young to read the sports page, I didn’t get much more information than what I saw on the court. But I do know that Laimbeer and Dumars played very different roles for those teams, and not just because one was a center and one was a guard. One guy has the league sportsmanship award named after him. One is probably the most recognized villain in league history.
While it seems they got along OK, were they ever close? Is it possible they tolerated each other because of the winning, and there wasn’t really any meaningful relationship otherwise?
Perhaps Dumars wouldn’t hire Laimbeer simply because it has the potential to cause a serious rift. If the team continues to struggle, and Laimbeer even HINTS that the team should be run differently (and I can absolutely see him doing that), automatically we have a Laimbeer vs. Dumars situation. They’ve both been successful GM’s of pro basketball teams, so Laimbeer’s opinions would carry weight. The media and fans would immediately start choosing sides; especially if Dumars’ team struggles for it’s 4th and/or 5th year (that’s pretty likely).
Is it possible that Dumars wouldn’t hire Laimbeer, just because he represents a very real threat to his authority? Or, because he might cause a division among player, fans, and media?
by Big Z in Orlando on Jun 21, 2011 3:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I am for Laimbeer too
Laimbeer can succeed as coach because if CV31 lips off he’ll body slam him. There will be no doubt in that locker room who is in charge. If a white guy with little to no vertical can lead the league in rebounding he can coach this team. He has alot to offer Monroe and he can make him a better all around player.
First time poster
Been reading for a long time and finally decided to take the plunge and post. I live breath and die pistons as do a lot of you around here so I love the constant chatter, makes work less worky. As for this coaching situation I think all the candidates have their respective weaknesses. I don’t want Woodson and my main reason might be stupid but I’m tired of hiring from the Larry Brown tree. Don’t care about his ties to the 2004 team, recent events have left a sour taste in my mouth on that one (JKIAFI?) The others all just leave me with a meh feeling except….
Laimbeer. While I’m not quite on the bandwagon most around here are I’m starting to run along side thinking of jumping on. I think patrick has some fair criticism, but I disagree on a few points however.
fail on my first post
continuing on: those points being the team sucking and him not getting a long leash and Joe being reluctant to hire a ex teammate and friend. I think Joe lives or dies with this coach. So if the team keeps sucking Joe won’t have to make a tough call and fire Laimbeer, he’s going to be standing behind him on the unemployment line. I think the next coach has the same 3 year window Joe has so we might as well swing for the fences and roll with someone who I believe will be the most fun to follow and has arguably the highest ceiling.
welcome aboard!
I think that’s a great additional comment to what were already great points from Patrick and then Big Z — this coach HAS to work because Dumars’ job is on the line, too, so the issue of hiring Bad Boys family, then possibly making that relationship awkward and needing to fire him won’t ripen. If Laimbeer has to be fired, Dumars should/will be on the chopping block with him.
My two cents
Personally I wanted Casey, but apparently even the Toronto Raptors are a better situation than our Pistons. Not a big surprise if you consider how quickly Dumars goes through coaches.
At any rate, the list of inexperienced coaches is obviously cherry-picked. Those success stories are impressive, but there are a lot more failures. Weren’t we all just making fun of Golden State hiring Mark Jackson?
I don’t believe Laimbeer would get this sort of support on DBB if he had played on a different team. That doesn’t mean he’s not the best candidate. As a former Piston, he brings certain advantages (fan support?) and disadvantages (increased scrutiny? conflict with Dumars?). With the most important players on the Pistons being younger, it would be fine with me to have a coach grow into the position with his players. It’s like drafting a guy with upside; you hope it pays off in a few years but you’re less concerned about immediate dividends. This team is going to be crap regardless of coach. I’m not sure Laimbeer will handle the team personalities that well; he does have a reputation for having a temper.
I like Frank a little better than Laimbeer. Don’t ask me why, though. I just always liked Frank.
Expectations don't always equate to reality
To be honest, look at our most recently sucessful track record with coaches. Carlisle, Brown, Saunders. All three of them had sucess as coaches previously , had amazing resumes coming in, and of course, all three of them were different coaches that brought something different to the table. But what bothered me the most about two of those three, despite the sucess, they didn’t want to stay. I respect Carlisle as a head coach, but he made it no secret that staying in Detroit wasn’t significant in his tenure and went on to create, if not revive, a rivalry with his new team the Indiana Pacers. The only thing Brown wanted to do after winning the title was go back to rebuilding teams, which wouldn’t really happen for Detroit for another few years, so he’s gone. Which brings me to my next statement:
“We don’t need a coach with a near flawless track record, we need the right man for the right job.”
So many people complain about Laimbeer not having credentials to succeed in the NBA as coach. By what standard? Is there some NBA rule that has prereqs saying that it’s law that you have to have at least a winning record previously with another NBA team, or dare I say WNBA team? Did they go into the future and foresee that Bill would break the Cavs’ losing streak as head coach of the Pistons and be even worse than both MCIAFI and John Q? By those outlandish claims, I guess that means if we hire Laimbeer we’re only setting ourselves up for failure, right?
Come on, all Bill needs is a chance. He’s been hungry for one since he was in the WNBA. Isn’t that one of the things that makes Detroit unique? We’ve traded for players, not stars, that could fill needs and be pivitol role players and we win a title in 2004. Nobody gave them a chance. The Lions go on a four game winning streak, the only active winning streak in the NFL with 6 wins and so many close losses, but nobody gave them a chance after Stafford went down again in Week 1. The Tigers, a team who hasn’t really been relevant since 2006, are now a top ten team with arguably the hottest pitcher in the MLB, but guess what, nobody gave them a chance before this season.
Honestly, we’ve got the pieces to make things happen. New owner, which means new rules. JoD goes back to (hopefully) making more good choices than mistakes, and by hiring Laimbeer as head coach, I think we’ll benefit more by the fact that there’s a lot that he wants to prove, as opposed to Woodson, Frank, etc.
The next time you jump back on the bandwagon, remember that I was there taking the splinters out of my ass in the front seat before we took off.
by The Sledge on Jun 22, 2011 6:28 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Bill Laimbeer
“The Finals are about a test of wills.”
“For someone like myself or Isiah, Dumars, Vinnie Johnson, you have a bond with the organization and they are part of you ever. You want to see them be successful, and see them continue the tradition that you have set up for the team in winning. And, for the most part, over the years the pistons have (continued that tradition).”
“My job was to be a good role player for some of the stars we had, rebound the basketball, play defense, and I also was the enforcement, the “sergeant at arms,” if you will. If you’re messing with our guards, my job was to make sure you didn’t mess with our guards. At that time you didn’t get free layups. You’d have to earn it, and if you don’t want to get knocked down, you shoot jump shots."
"I just did my job, played basketball and won championships," says Laimbeer today. "I didn’t get distracted by the other stuff, and if other people did, it worked to our advantage."
“That’s how we like to play basketball, is be physical down there in the paint and force teams to the perimeter.”
"This is our time. We believe we are the best basketball team out there. We have a very talented group, and they have to want to go out there and just take the championship. But we have to choose to go out there and take the game, choose to take it over and prove to the world that this is best basketball club in the world."
"And if that means we carry a chip on our shoulder, OK. That’s the hand we’re dealt right now. We’re big. We’re strong. We attack. We’re fast."
Bill Laimbeer is one of the top assistant coaches in the NBA. He is largely responsible for the development of Kevin Love this season. Laimbeer has the unique ability to bring the best out of players that accept his demanding coaching style. The Jazz fans would love his competitive nature and ability to get wins. Laimbeer would make the sure Jazz players uphold their responsibility to play hard, which would make sure the “FANS GET THEIR MONEY’S WORTH” each game. (caps and quotation marks mine) Laimbeer’s no excuse approach would ensure the Jazz keep their winning tradition.
Love credited an ongoing conversation with assistant coach Bill Laimbeer for getting him through the night’s pain and doubt.
"He was a player who played hurt," Love said. "He played with a broken nose. He played with fractured ribs. And he’s not afraid to tell you that, either. He encouraged me throughout the game. I think that helped tremendously."
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2011/03/10/love-keeps-it-streakly-business/
CHERYL FORD – “Everyone loves him to death and loves playing for him. He gives us all the confidence in the world and he doesn’t beat around the bush when he has something to say. He’ll tell it to you straight if you’re messing up. I haven’t seen the Bad Boy side of him, and I’m not ready to see it. I love him as he is.”
http://www.notablebiographies.com/newsmakers2/2004-Ko-Pr/Laimbeer-Bill.html
Detroit Shock forward Cheryl Ford became the WNBA’s all-time single-season rebounder in Sunday afternoon’s 88-65 victory over the Connecticut Sun grabbing 363 boards in 32 games on the year………..and is also one of six WNBA players to have recorded a 20-point, 20-rebound game (21 points, 22 rebounds at San Antonio, May 22, 2004).
In her four-year career, the Shock forward has 55 career double-doubles (fifth most in league history) and holds the WNBA record for offensive rebounds in a game with 12 at San Antonio on May 22, 2004.
http://www.wnba.com/shock/news/ford_alltimerebounder06.html
The Shock were winless after 10 games when Laimbeer assumed head coaching duties on June 19, 2002, despite no professional coaching experience. He quickly employed a more aggressive philosophy – akin to his reputation as a hardnosed player after 14 NBA seasons – and the Shock finished above .500 over the final 15 games (8-7). The Shock began to attack the basket, increasing their trips to the foul line while shooting fewer 3-pointers. The Shock also became a better rebounding team, grabbing nearly nine more per game after Laimbeer took over (36.4 rpg/ 27.8). Detroit would expect nothing less from a team coached by the Pistons’ all-time rebounding leader.
http://www.wnba.com/coachfile/bill_laimbeer/index.html
I think it’s evident that Love and Ford had these qualities of tenacity inside of them before they came into their respective leagues. However it was Bill Laimbeer who pushed the right buttons and tweaked the right part of their games to make them the ferocious rebounders they became. Is it a coincidence that both Love and Ford led their leagues in rebound with Laimbeer as head and assistant coaches? Now Is The Time Joe D!
From Worst to First!
http://www.videosurf.com/video/from-worst-to-first-the-detroit-shock-are-wnba-champions-12431436
by motowngold on Jun 22, 2011 5:13 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
i'm not even reading all this
but with that many pics of Lamb? Recs to you, my good sir.
by C$ on Jun 23, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Frustrating to know that the Pistons has not signed a head coach before the draft, i am a big fan of Bill Laimbeer, when he played for the Pistons. He was successful as a head coach in womens basketball. The debate will always linger that given the inequality of how wnba is perceived. People will always think less of Bill Laimbeer. So moving forward let us just look on what he has done when he was an assistant coach. I tried my best to keep track on Laimbeer even if he is with the Timberwolves, it is a few years back but i watched how he coached the summer league with Reggie Theus. They take turns on coaching the games. And when Laimbeer coached Wayne Ellington was very productive and was hitting all his shots, they pressure the other team ball carrier, and they won those games with a big margin. When it was Theus turn to coach they are abnormally flat and lose the games miserably. This was way back so there is no Kevin Love as he was dealing with his injuries. And now move forward to last season when Kevin Love become a double double machine. I would credit his development to Laimbeer. He is not athletic player to speak off, he uses all those moves to get position for rebounds that to me would be what Laimbeer would have taught him. He reminded me of Dennis Rodman on how he uses his arms to create space and box out, most likely taught by Laimbeer. If by chance they took Frank as head coach and get Thompson as their 8th pick. I guess we will be seeing more of Greg Monroe waiting to hear the announcements on who will pick first on next year’s draft again.
Laimbeer should be the next Pistons Coach
If they gave Michael Curry the chance to coach the team why not Bill?
Laimbeer has had success as a coach, player and was a Piston...he should be given a shot
"When Fortuna spins you downward, go out to a movie and get more out of life."
— John Kennedy Toole (A Confederacy of Dunces)
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
In Defense of Bill Laimbeer: The right man for the job
MIke Payne ..Awesome job on this article .. Except for a very few .. pretty much all the Piston Beat Writers hate Bill Laimbeer .. which to me is a slap in the face of all Piston Fans .. Thank you for having the guts to tell the the truth .. i could not agree more .. Tom Gores .. Hire Bill Laimbeer while you still have a chance ..
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