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Tom Gores on challenging Joe Dumars

One of the most interesting soundbites to come out of Tom Gores' introductory press conference was his vow to push Joe Dumars. "Our job isn't to agree with Joe," he said. "Our job is to challenge Joe, and hopefully that will make the outcome better."

In an interview with Mitch Albom, Gores explained what he meant: 

Albom: You spoke at your news conference about "challenging" Joe Dumars, your team president. What did you mean by "challenge"?

Gores: I think it's gonna be good for Joe. I think Joe has needed some ownership. Just as we challenge our CEOs in our own companies, (we'll challenge Joe) to think about every different way he can do something. ...

I think Joe is ready for it. I don't think he's afraid of it. And as much as we're an owner that's gonna allow basketball operations to do their thing, I'm gonna be very, very present, and we're gonna ask questions. We're not gonna rest on our laurels. 

There's not many lines for us to read between here, so I'm aware that my own personal bias is likely leaking into this interpretation, but when I see Gores say he wants to challenge Dumars "to think about every different way he can do something," I can't help but wonder if he's pushing for a more analytical approach to scouting.

The whole "scouts vs. stats" debate is tired and irrelevant (you need both!), but there are clearly some franchises out there known for taking the numbers more seriously than most. The Spurs and the Thunder jump to mind, as do the Trail Blazers. (Update: the Rockets obviously deserve to be mentioned, as well, seeing as their GM is at the forefront of this new wave of thinking.) 

Star-divide

In any case, be sure to read the whole interview -- it has nice background on Gores' upbringing, the moment he realized he was rich and how he likely would have pursued buying the Detroit Lions had they been for sale. 

Update: Also, this (italics mine):

Albom: When did you first realize you were wealthy enough to own a sports team if you wanted?

Gores: Oh, geez, I don't know. A few years ago. It's not really the business we're in. But this is such a unique situation where it really could use someone like me to help it transition and transform. ... I always want to create value; I never want to buy value.

While clearly talking about his own personal investment strategy, the idea of never wanting to buy value could obviously apply to NBA personnel. In order to correctly gauge a player's true value, you need objective measures of worth (eg, advanced statistics).  Gores doesn't buy companies because his analysts have gut feelings (eg, "handles it, shoots it, long and smooth!") or merely like the superficial outlook (eg, points per game) -- they dive deep into the numbers to find untapped potential. Insisting the executive in charge of his newest investment apply the same strategy makes perfect sense.

In other words: Drafting well and holding onto young players at below market value contracts = good. Signing established veterans on the first day of free agency to expensive contracts = bad.

(Also, many thanks to Big Z for posting this as a FanShot earlier today.)

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He wants to create the value

This is very favorable and encouraged for me.

Where broken English happens

by OK from J on Jun 6, 2011 7:42 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

First impressions

I like this guy.

But I’m cautiously optimistic until we start to see some roster changes.

by TDP on Jun 6, 2011 8:23 PM EDT reply actions  

I will lose faith if Laimbeer doesn't get the nod as head coach.

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on Jun 6, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

So we can run him out of town in two years when this poopdick of a roster falls on its ass the next couple seasons?

I’d like to see him coach the Pistons in some capacity. Just not as the head coach with this roster. It’d be nice for our team philosophy to start in the paint, though. Laimbeer developing our young bigs in an assistant coach’s role would be awesome.

by TDP on Jun 6, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

no roster can be defined as poop dick with Laimbeer at the helm

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on Jun 6, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

What Laimbeer has done for Love in Minnesota is pretty impressive...and Love has not been shy about Laimbeer's influence on him.

and I could see him doing the same thing with Monroe, Jerebko, Biyombo.

If we’re going to devote this draft to acquiring young bigs with potential, then not having Laimbeer coaching in some fashion would be foolish.

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on Jun 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

How is Laimbeer not a veteran head coach?

He won multiple championships with the Shock as HEAD coach. WNBA is professional basketball just like the NBA. It has headcases, me-first players, and prima donnas. If anything, I’d expect it to be more difficult because you can’t simply rely on the sheer athleticism of your players like you can in the NBA. You actually have to coach fundamentals and having players willingly accept the team dynamic that you’re building is even more important.

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on Jun 6, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Take the fact that he’s an ex-Bad Boy out of the equation and you’d still be clamoring for an ex-WNBA coach? I don’t think so.

by TDP on Jun 6, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That'd be like me looking at someone's resume for an interview

and choosing to ignore one section of his experience entirely. Laimbeer’s experience as a player and a coach is why I want him as our head coach. Is it significant that his experience as a player is why we are ALL considering him as a head coach? Sure. But he’s won regardless of the setting and he has the exact mindset that we are all asking for from our coach.

And the point that you were trying to make was that Laimbeer doesn’t have head coaching experience. Now you’re backing off that but at the same time discrediting the WNBA by implying that his experience in that league is somehow less meaningful than a career NCAA college coaches or a career assistant coach. To which I say, bullshit.

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on Jun 6, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Minnesota's "Case of LaimBEER"

or case for…but it wouldn’t have been nearly as punny (zing)

To me, Laimbeer is more intriguing. The former Bad Boy won two championships as a player with the Pistons and then led the WNBA’s Detroit Shock to 3 league titles and 4 Finals appearances in 7 seasons as a head coach. During his stint with the Shock, Laimbeer was known as a fiery motivator and take charge leader. He took over a last place team that finished 9-23 in 2002 and piloted them to WNBA title in 2003. While it would be unrealistic to expect that to happen in Minnesota, Laimbeer has proven he can mold a bad team into a winner. By force of personality, Laimbeer could also give the team the intensity and edge they’ve lacked since Kevin Garnett left town in 2007.
 
With his resume and pedigree, it’s probably just a matter of time before Laimbeer gets a shot at the top spot. If it’s not in Minnesota, the Wolves could regret it. After 26-104, what are they waiting for?

So let me get this straight…you’re discrediting his experience at the WNBA level despite leading a previously last place team to a finals appearance the following year, 4 finals appearances in 7 seasons, and 3 out of 4 he won?

More importantly, what more should we expect him to learn in 1 or 2 additional seasons as an assistant coach under either Rambis or some other team that he hasn’t already learned as a player (playing for one of the best coaches in NBA history), a head coach (where he is one of the winningest head coaches in WNBA history), or as an assistant coach in the NBA (where he’s been consistently credited for the improvement in one of the best big men in the game)?

There are only a few possible scenarios out of all this:

1) We hire Laimbeer
2) Minnesota retains Rambis, and next year, after starting off poorly, MN fires him and puts Laimbeer in as Interim Head Coach. Laimbeer gets his shot in MN and if his coaching career is any indication, he’ll make the most of it
3) Minnesota fires Rambis before the start of next season and hires Laimbeer as his replacement (Kahn has already stated he thinks Laimbeer is fully capable right now of being a head coach)
4) MN fires Rambis and Bill takes an assistant coaching position on another team at which point we hope that the stars align not once, not twice, but 3 times for Laimbeer to come back to detroit as a head coach.
5) Rambis is fired and Bill ends up with a head coaching position on another team.

Personally, I’m only okay with option 1. It sounds as if some of you would rather take a chance that the stars will align 2-3 years down the road than simply give a man whose credentials are just as good as anyone else that’s been mentioned thus far.

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on Jun 7, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

forgot to mention, that quote comes from here:

http://www.mnscore.com/blog/?p=887

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on Jun 7, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like how you commented on your own comment.

by Shinons* on Jun 7, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

rec'd for commenting on your comment.

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on Jun 7, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

And then again

Really though, I’d love to see Laimbeer get a shot. But I want to make sure we’re getting the best fella for the job and the best fit. If the Coach Bill Laimbeer were not the Player Bill Laimbeer, we wouldn’t give a rat’s ass about his WNBA career. And if he played for the Celtics rather than the Pistons, Kahn’s endorsement would mean jack shit. And if his name were Chill Lame Deer, we’d be talking about what a cool name he had rather than how cool it’d be to see him on the sidelines.

by Shinons* on Jun 7, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

You might be right on all counts

But the fact is, he is who he is. He played for the Pistons, and our hypothetical personal bias against him had he played elsewhere is completely irrelevant.

If we’re going to speak hypothetically, and say that Laimbeer played for the Celtics, then he very likely was already handed a head coaching job in Boston and has led them to multiple championships including at least one over the Pistons. We all hate him more than life itself and are still pissed for how terrible our team is and the fact that the only head coach currently up for consideration is Michael Curry. After all, this is all hypothetical.

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on Jun 7, 2011 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Really, I’m just being an ass because of you trouncing my Lawrence Frank favorables and our wonderfully natural grudge match. Laimbeer is my number one too, I just hope we do our due diligence and think Frank deserves in the race.

by Shinons* on Jun 7, 2011 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

the Boo/Nons Grudge Match

is one of my favorite DBB pastimes.

Do it Jores!

by Mike Payne on Jun 7, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Thats BOOSHIN MP...

And now an animated .gif

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on Jun 7, 2011 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

scroll down for the full image.

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on Jun 7, 2011 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I Think Rambis Is Probably Gone

..due to the Rubio signing, and that Kahn is looking for a former PG as coach (Woodson, Drew, etc.).

Hermosa Beach as Hell!

by V. on Jun 7, 2011 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

How do you know what Laimbeer has done for Love?

Correlation, causation, you know that whole bit. I’ve never been to a Wolves practice, so I’d be skeptical.

by brgulker on Jun 6, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

and the animated .gif one more time...looing for its full glory here...

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on Jun 7, 2011 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

that is glorious

I wonder if Bosh realized how much the whole world would see him as a bitch when he signed that deal.

Do it Jores!

by Mike Payne on Jun 7, 2011 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know but he sure loves the taste of those fingers! HE JUST CAN'T GET ENOUGH!

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on Jun 7, 2011 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

also, this is precisely what I look like

opening beer after beer with my tongue.

Do it Jores!

by Mike Payne on Jun 7, 2011 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

good morning chris! still goin' at it?

….

wow. won’t even stop lickin’ those fingers to wish me a good morrow.

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

by The Boourns on Jun 7, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

If Gores wants value

he should consider securing a D-League team associated exclusively for the Pistons in order to develop young, cheap talent. I know it’s early in this ownership process, but the Spurs, Rockets, Mavs and Thunder all have their own NBDL teams already.

by TDP on Jun 6, 2011 8:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Love it. I know the Spurs make their D-League team run the exact plays that Popovich calls.

by Birdman84 on Jun 7, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

In all seriousness.

I think you’re going to see one of two things:

1. You’re going to see the absolute best of Joe Dumars. Gores pushing, prodding, challenging, etc. of Dumars is going to bring out his best qualities and he will rise to the occasion. For the first time in years, an owner is going to push Dumars to do his absolute best.
2. Dumars cracks under the pressure and resigns. The years of owner indifference has left him unable to contend with Gores hands-on approach and active scrutiny.

I don’t think we’re going to have a lukewarm offseason. It’s going to be all or nothing.

Terrence J. is feeling a bit fishy...

by Trout Jefferson on Jun 6, 2011 8:46 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I feel like a fanboi. I <3 Tom Gores! Eeeeee! :) :) :)

by garrettelliott on Jun 6, 2011 9:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Some first-time sports owners enthusiastically buy teams, then become disillusioned with the “entitlement” attitude of some pro players. Have you considered that?

Well, that’s a culture. We have to run our place and our house with fundamental values. … You force everybody to live by them. I think most players will follow that. I think when you allow the house to get out of control, it gets out ofcontrol.

What trait will you not put up with in players?

Not working hard.

by garrettelliott on Jun 6, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Analogies always get recs, especially if they’re accurate.

by -PS- on Jun 6, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Spurs and the Thunder jump to mind, as do the Trail Blazers.

Perennial powerhouse, up and coming powerhouse, and would-have-been a powerhouse except for injuries. (You also have to include Houston in that mix, as well as Denver)

You get the right stats rounding out player evaluation, and you win (with a little luck and health). I sincerely hope the days of trusting eyeballs and eyeballs only is done in Detroit.*

*Not holding my breath, but hoping just the same.

by brgulker on Jun 6, 2011 11:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Perennial powerhouse, up and coming powerhouse, and would-have-been a powerhouse except for injuries.

Indeed.

by -PS- on Jun 6, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Morey is at the forefront of this, totally should have included the Rockets.

by Matt Watson on Jun 6, 2011 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also

San Antonio, Oklahoma City, Houston and Dallas all have their own NBDL teams.

by TDP on Jun 6, 2011 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

your mom has her own NBDL team.

Do it Jores!

by Mike Payne on Jun 6, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dorothy Mantooth is a saint!

by TDP on Jun 6, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

somebody new

that seems to give a shit is always a plus

I smell a troll

by Frankdog on Jun 7, 2011 1:36 AM EDT reply actions  

What about Lawrence, Frank…dog?

Do it Jores!

by Mike Payne on Jun 7, 2011 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

mike p

call me crazy but a dude that seems to care is good, yes?

I smell a troll

by Frankdog on Jun 7, 2011 1:56 AM EDT reply actions  

by the way

my tag, frankdog, was cuz i was living in frankfurt germany. most times i was 6 hours behind the times. i’m back livin in the right zone so i can and will try to keep up with my fellow pistons faithful. oh and mike p, respect!

I smell a troll

by Frankdog on Jun 7, 2011 2:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Shouldn’t you be a frankfurter, then?

by brgulker on Jun 7, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  


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