Agent: Joe Dumars wants to re-sign Tayshaun Prince
by Matt Watson on Jul 12, 2011 7:17 AM EDT
in Detroit Pistons News
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PrintSpeaking of talkative agents, Bill Duffy, who represents Tayshaun Prince, recently told Perry A. Farrell of the Detroit Free Press that Joe Dumars contacted him (before the lockout) to confirm his interest in re-signing Prince once free agency begins:
"I would expect teams to call the first day. Usually, you would see a two- or three-week period of free-agency. Even if the lockout lasts until November or December, you still have to have free agency. You have to allow time for guys to sign with other teams, or allow time to go through that process."
[...] Duffy said Prince will test the market, but wouldn't mind returning to Detroit, where he helped the team to a championship in 2004.
Teams weren't allowed to call Duffy until Prince was a free agent, and now they can't contact Duffy until after the lockout.
"Tayshaun's a hell of a player and a champion and a great person," Duffy said. "So you would expect teams to be interested. I've been told Joe would like to re-sign him."
This strikes me as insane. For one, Prince was among the most visible of last year's malcontents -- if Dumars is serious about changing the team's culture, he must recognize this and make a clean break.
But more importantly, it's simply asinine to keep an expensive veteran on a team that's at least several years away from seriously contending. Invest the money in a big man, and invest the playing time in developing younger, cheaper players who almost certainly have more productive years left in their career like Jonas Jerebko, Austin Daye and (yes) Kyle Singler.
Am I being too harsh? Make your case in the comments.
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I don't think your too harsh.
I think you’re spot on. Keeping Tay on at this point would be bufoonery.
by Alex_Be on Jul 12, 2011 7:24 AM EDT reply actions 7 recs
I would like a second helping of the harsh poTAYto
Antlers and Horns......
by alaskanpistonsfan on Jul 12, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Not too harsh. Definitely not too harsh.
Tay is a good player, and on a good team he’s going to be helpful for another couple years.
On a team that is going to struggle to win 30 games the next couple seasons, re-signing Tay and having him help the team claw it’s way to 34 wins is dumb both short term and long term.
I just can't fathom it
and I actually like Prince as a player, and will accept the fact he’s a better option at SF than Daye or Jerebko, but he’s got to go.
the long-term salary structure of this team is way too ugly to accommodate Prince. At this rate the Pistons won’t be participating in free agency until about 2020. Prince might make us better in the short-term, but he’ll cripple our financial situation, and hinder the long-term viability of this team.
Yes, you're (probably) being too harsh
(1) First, sure, if we could get a good young big for Tay in some way, we should do that. If we could get a good young big for ANYONE on the roster not named Monroe or Jerebko — heck, if we could get a good young bid for any 2 or even three players not named Monroe or Jerebko, we should do that. But I’m not optimistic Tay’s money would turn into a good young big. So, assuming it doesn’t. . . .
(2) Re attitude, yeah, Tay had some bad moments last year, but (per the other thread) he had some reasons. Plus, for a long time he was a frickin’ rock for the Pistons. An iron man, playing a zillion minutes when either we had no decent backup at SF or the coach didn’t trust who we had. I think the attitude could turn around easily.
(3) He can be a mentor. I remember last year Daye (I’m pretty sure) talking about Tay taking him aside and telling him what he needed to do to play against bigger guys. Plus he has a ton of experience, and he’s always seemed like a relatively thoughtful guy. I think he could still really help the younger players.
(3) Re playing time, the problem is at guard, not SF. If we don’t resign Tay, we have Daye at the SF, and um. . . ?
(4) Re team salary structure, the problem is a guard, not SF.
Look, as much as I love Tay, part of me would like to see him go to a contender, which Detroit isn’t going to be next year. But I don’t think re-signing him would necessarily be a, um, massive mistake.
not quite
(3) Re playing time, the problem is at guard, not SF. If we don’t resign Tay, we have Daye at the SF, and um. . . ?
1. Jerebko 2. Daye 3. Singler
You may not like those guys, but all three should really be getting most of their minutes at SF. Bringing back Prince to play 35 minutes a night at SF and forcing at least two of the above to get minutes out of position is, well, buffoonery.
by Big Z in Orlando on Jul 12, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
silly question
Jerebko is a 10.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
by Mike Payne on Jul 12, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
turn it up to 11.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Re: Points 2 and first 3
I agree that both of these are possible, but think that neither are likely. I don’t think Tay wants that role of mentor. Throughout this past season I remember several times he emphasized that he was still in his prime and seemed to bristle at the notion that he was on the downside of his career. Also after spending his whole career as the glue guy who is content making his presence felt without scoring 20 ppg, this last year was a career high in attempts – and if you look at the per 36, it’s by a wide margin. He’s spent his whole career as the starting SF, always getting plenty of minutes (other than his rookie year, of course) – he made it pretty clear this year that he believes a guy who has always done that should always do that, at least till the wheels fall off. What I’d prefer in a mentor is someone who has been rather written off but can still provide effective minutes if Daye doesn’t take the next step and it turns out that Jerebko is definitely a 4 but is willing to step back if they do while also being able to contribute to their development – or in other words, pretty much how Williamson transitioned in Tay.
But in the bigger picture, I totally agree with Gulks. We’ve got to work toward building something, which is going to be through the younger guys. This lack of identity as to whether we’re competing or rebuilding over the past few seasons is, I believe, a big reason for all the player frustrations. Resigning Tay would maintain that convoluted identity.
Additionally on the mentor thing, maybe it’s just me, but I seem to recall an awful lot of Tay rolling his eyes, yelling at the young guys, arms flailing in frustration, etc. Tay doesn’t strike me as the patient type who wants to spend the last few good years of his career coming off the bench to coach guys on a team struggling to get to 30 wins. He belongs in SA, Dallas, or Chicago for the rest of his career.
For such a seemingly quiet dude, he’s all about the histrionics. I don’t know how many times the camera cut to him during a game last season and he had his arms in the air, with a dumbfounded look on his face.
by garrettelliott on Jul 12, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
That is to say, I don’t know how many times it happened, but it happened a lot.
by garrettelliott on Jul 12, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
You're not being too harsh, because Tayshaun shouldn't be on this team...
We’re rebuilding. There are no two ways about that; we are a rebuilding team. As such we need to be giving focus on our younger players; our Austin Dayes, our Jonas Jerebkos (by the way, I fucking love Jonas and hope he comes back strong this year).
I love Tayshaun, he was an integral part of the 2004 championship and the 2005 should’ve-been-a-championship (between Sheed and Larry Brown I don’t know who to be more angry with.)
Regardless, Tayshaun deserves to play somewhere with legitimate title contention and we deserve at least .60 cents on the dollar for him. Fuck it, I don’t care, let’s get less for him. Tayshaun deserves better and this Pistons team needs a new identity.
I loved the Bad Boys, sure, but we have to be realistic about our future prospects. And as far as that goes, I’d like to trade Tayshaun, and wish him all the best.
by BoogieWoogie M.D. on Jul 12, 2011 9:38 AM EDT reply actions
If Tay is resigned
it is clear Joe’s mind is no longer fully functional therefore he’s no longer capable of making decisions on his own.
WWGMD?
by Kriz on Jul 12, 2011 10:51 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Prince was among the most visible of last year’s malcontents — if Dumars is serious about changing the team’s culture, he must recognize this and make a clean break.
This. Fortunately, I don’t think that there’s much of a chance that Prince wants to come back to Detroit, so our worry is probably all for naught. That said, decisions like these don’t lend any credence to the school of thought that Dumars can right this ship.
Yeah, my guess is just that this is an agent propping up his client. How big of a contract would he be looking at if he wasn’t even getting an offer from his current team? At the same time though, an agent claiming publicly that he’s having conversations with a GM that aren’t actually happening probably isn’t a great career move, so this certainly does tickle my worried bone.
by Shinons* on Jul 12, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just don't see it...
Whether or not Joe wants to resign him won’t matter. Why on earth would Tay want to come back?
key word that a few commenters have already touched on
rebuild rebuild rebuild.
agreed that this would be buffoonery
Tay
This guy has to go…between him and Rip they created a cancer in this team since Chauncey was traded. Rip has pissed and moaned ever since then. Joe needs to grow a set and stand up to the group that held a mutiny…good bye and good riddens to McGrady as well…he did jack squat while he was here…worst FA signing ever.
This team will only move on once the cancer has been cut out…Tay and Rip got to go…
Back in the Bad Boys days…these two would have gotten their asses kicked by the likes of Laimbeer, Thomas & Mahorn….The Pistons need to get back to that mind set…where nobody is bigger than the Team !
And if Joe can’t do it…he’s needs to go as well !
I hope I’m not the only one that doesn’t mind that Rip and Tay are supposed cancers. They are used to winning, and they’re competitive. Everyone wants to give Gordon a pat on the back for being a model citizen while constantly being dumped on, but is that really the kind of player you want on your team?
I want guys that want to win at all costs even if they don’t know they suck. I want guys that are going to give all their effort even if it doesn’t produce results. Now I’d prefer guys that are good and would do the same, but that, unfortunately, is not what this team has on it. I want competitors.
Guys like Jordan or Kobe would cry all day if they were in this situation. Wasn’t too long ago Kobe was crying about wanting out of LA before Gasol came around.
You need players like Rip and Tay to push ownership to make changes sometimes. You need guys to stand up and tell these fools to do something about the mess they created.
I honestly don’t see how getting rid of these cancerous individuals is going to rectify the situation when we’re still left with bad players, albeit quieter ones.
I get it...BUT
When you quit on your coach…there is NO excuse for that…they played along with all that crap..the mutiny so to speak…they are vets…they know better….Coaches coach…players Play…be a man and do it the right way…that’s why Rip got benched…cause he acted like a kid…not a man or a Pro…by what you’re saying Joe seems like the one to go…he created the mess you speak of.
One question….IF Rip and Tay come back….how long before whoever is hired to coach this team..become its former coach…If Joe lets that happen again…he should be fired on the spot.
by crazy_canuck on Jul 12, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm thinking... maybe... you should.... lay off the... periods......
……………………………………………………………………………………………
"You’d be surprised what you can accomplish if you’re not concerned with making sense!"- PS
the anticipation is killing me for the sequel to your post!!!
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Tay
I stand by what I say, Tay and Rip need to go. It’s time for a house cleaning and then Joe can actually do his job without worrying about whether or not the players he has will actually play when they are suppose to.
by crazy_canuck on Jul 14, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I stand by what I say, Tay and Rip need to go.
Really going out on a limb there.
by TDP on Jul 18, 2011 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
SAMPSON SIMPSON I STICK BAH MAH STOREH
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
If boourns wasn't jamacian
why would he be wearing that hat??
by C$ on Jul 19, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
If resign
Joe means offer a lower amount of money just for being nice, and Tay will not accept it, then cool. If not, then I… Don’t understand
Sunk costs
Joe Dumars seems like he’s trying to justify every bad thing that happened when Karen Davidson was the owner. You just have to move forward. Just because the Pistons made a huge mistake by not getting anything of value for Prince or Stuckey when they were under contract doesn’t mean you have to sign them as free agents.
What did Dumars really say?
Bill Duffy, the agent for Pistons free-agent forward Tayshaun Prince, said he was contacted by Pistons president of basketball operations Joe Dumars before the July 1 lockout to say he was interested in re-signing the veteran.
So the article begins by saying that Dumars contacted Duffy to say he would like to resign Prince.
“I’ve been told Joe would like to re-sign him.”
Then Duffy is quoted as saying he’s “been told” that Joe wants to resign Prince.
So which is it? My guess is that Dumars would like to keep Prince, but won’t be able to afford to keep him. I agree the Pistons have no business paying him what he’s worth on the open market, and our future lies with the young guys. I think if Prince has taught Daye anything helpful, then 2 years was enough time to do that. If we could start Daye at PF last year (that never made sense to me!), then certainly we can start him at SF now and let him develop.
After two losing seasons, clearly it’s time to rebuild. We can’t do that by handing out major money to a vet who will at best make us less mediocre and will take away playing time from the young guys.
My 2 cents
For a long time now, I’ve often thought that much more goes on behind closed doors when it comes to contract negotiations than any of the public realizes. Additionally, I think a lot of this is driven by the rapport that agents establish with GMs and coaches alike. This is why so many players are switching to Leon Rose in my opinion. The dude obviously knows how to work it to the benefit of his players. So with that in mind, here’s what I think is really going on:
Tay and Joe probably understand that Tay’s time in Detroit is coming to a close and that this team will not provide Prince with what he needs or wants out of a team – contention for a championship, strong veteran PG play, and possibly some place closer to home.
Additionally, Joe recognizes everything that Tay has provided this team and Joe himself and wants to do whatever he can to help Tay in his next endeavors. To that end, giving the go ahead to Tay’s agent to make it publicly known that Joe would like to re-sign Tay does serve a purpose. It shows that despite the bufoonery, this franchise still sees great value in Tay and therefore, other potential teams should see value as well. In essence, making this public along with the rumors that the Nets are targeting Tay just gives Tay a better shot at a more lucrative contract wherever he ends up.
Think of it in the opposite way – Joe D pissed a pretty big circle around Stuckey during the middle of the season in hopes of convincing other GMs that we’d outbid them on whatever offer they make. Doing this obviously benefits the Pistons in that hopefully teams won’t make a run at Stuckey and we can keep him on the roster for less than what some of us were even willing to pay Stuckey.
So the conspiracy theorist in me tells me that Joe and Tay understand that not only will Joe not be making Tay an offer, but Tay isn’t really interested in entertaining any offer that Joe would make. But for Tay’s agent, when it comes to negotiating with New Jersey, he can say, “Listen MRMP, you’re not the only one interested and this is what we believe Detroit will offer…what can you provide Tay that competes with said offer?”
Of course if all of the above is bullshit, then yes, this is absolute bufoonery at its most bufonneryiest.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 12, 2011 3:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
A comforting angle to approach this story from.
I still think the last several years have been damaging to the franchise, and Dumars’ rep and the perception of his skill as a GM- I doubt the above tactics would work, but I hope you’re right.
Tayshaun, go go, back back, to Cali Cali.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Well stated
Yeah, I think you’re pretty close to the mark on that comment. Plus how would it look if Joe said the Pistons aren’t interested in resigning a guy who helped us win an NBA title? The classy thing is to say you’d like to keep him. And what agent is going to say, “The team he’s on now thinks he’s a washed-up malcontent, but you should pay him top dollar!”
I loved Tay.
He has gotta go. Let him finish your career in glory with the bulls or our dear friends SAN ANTONIO. We respect them a lot and if we cant win i want the spurs to win it. They have Kwahi Leonard, i know, but Richard Jefferson is gone and they could use another vet at a postition with a rookie. Farewell and Good Luck Prince of the Palace.
Overreaction
Put yourself in Duffy’s shoes, in Tay’s shoes, in Dumars’ shoes, what else are they going to say?
The entire conversation here is about driving up Tay’s market value and not a lot more. I can’t really see Tay returning to the Pistons, not with the logjam at the 3.
I think under different circumstances, I wouldn’t mind a re-up. But, it looks like Dumars has pressed the reset button on the previously aborted reset button, and the comments from Duffy are hard to take seriously otherwise.
I see a LA uni in Tay’s future, just not sure the colors yet.
Finally, let me point out it’s going to be a while before the labor issue is resolved, and a while before the final roster is set. I think you’re going to see quite a bit of reshuffling of the roster before we start playing again.
In the land of milk and honey you must put them on the table...
I think you’re right in that they’re saying what they’re supposed to say.
But I don’t think that means we can’t debate whether or not it makes sense for him to come back. What else is there to talk about, you know?
I Don't Think There's That Much Debate
So, we gotta find something else to talk about.
In the land of milk and honey you must put them on the table...
by V. on Jul 14, 2011 4:56 AM EDT up reply actions
In what way has Dumars hit the reset button?
In every comment he’s made the last 3 years or so, he’s referenced “retooling” rather than “rebuilding”, implying he’d try and keep the team competitive. He’s been unable or unwilling to fix the roster imbalance, and has made multiple decisions, that in hindsight, don’t appear to be those of a man attempting to rebuild a team.
He still talks about veteran players like Prince like they have a real purpose or place on this team (they don’t). He still talks about players like Stuckey as solutions to roster issues, when in fact, they cause more problems than they solve.
I’m honestly curious how anyone can feel that Joe D has really “hit the reset” button yet.
by Big Z in Orlando on Jul 13, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I’m honestly curious how anyone can feel that Joe D has really "hit the reset" button yet.
Yes. and rec’d.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
It's hard to be Talking Joe D
When Doing Joe D is stuffing deep fried cheeseburgers in his mouth.
This signature is false.
Well, Let's Judge That When We See The Roster For Opening Night
Besides, my crystal ball is in the shop for maintenance.
In the land of milk and honey you must put them on the table...
by V. on Jul 14, 2011 4:53 AM EDT up reply actions
as many as it takes MP! as many as it takes...
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I hope so
But Joe has done NOTHING in the past 5 years that would indicate that this isn’t legit. Rip extension, CV signing, BG signing, giving Ben more than one year and he’s 700 hundred years old. I wouldn’t put this kind of stupidity past Joe D for a second.
by fiendishdr.wu on Jul 13, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait what?
Giving Ben more than 1 year? He gave him $2M a year….his salary completely warrants his contribution to this team and is actually an example of one of the few positive and good moves that JoD has made. It should NEVER, EVER, EVARRRRRR, be included in a list of boneheaded moves by JoD that includes extending Rip, signing BG and CV…
Jesus…you’re making me so fucking angry right now.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 13, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
add that to the bad decisions list Dumars has done......
There are more advantages to letting go of Prince or better yet a sign and trade. Personally it will give more minutes to Jonas, and Daye. Also more playing time for CV if he goes. Prince always looked like he is frustrated at something when he is on the court. It is time to let him play on a team that can value his talent and hopefully Dumars plan on getting out some pick or player in return or at worse let him walk.
Please let Tay Go.....
Joe D. is out of his mind
by Jovetta McQueen on Jul 13, 2011 3:00 AM EDT reply actions
the pistions might do sigin and trade deal with nets to help prince out and the nets who might want drop one of thirer extra big men off thier roster
as much as I'm sure the Pistons would love to do a sign & trade with Tayshaun, and the assuming the rumors are true that the Nets are interested in Tay
I’m not sure what you mean by one of their “extra bigs”.
They have Johan Petro (who we didn’t want even if it meant shedding Rip’s contract during the season) on contract for 3 years at $3.25M a year…
Then they have Humphries, Gadzuric, and Wright – all 3 of which are free agents.
The only big man that NJ has on contractg besides Petro is Brook Lopez and they certainly wouldn’t give him up.
If tay is playing for New Jersey next season, we’d be better off just letting him go than taking on Johan Petro and salary filler.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
im a nets fan , why would detroit want petro for prince
by jadedeed2327 on Jul 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
where did I say the Pistons wanted Petro or that I thought Petro was a viable option as a sign & trade
I mean I realize my post was a little all over the place and there were a few typos (I thought this would make it easier for you to understand) but regardless of those minor issues, my final sentence sums it up quite perfectly (and is the exact opposite of what your comment implies you comprehended):
If tay is playing for New Jersey next season, we’d be better off just letting him go than taking on Johan Petro and salary filler.
Do I really need to explain what I’m saying here? WE (the franchise, JoD, and fans alike) would be better off (as in financially and talent-wise) if we just let Tay go (did not attempt a sign & trade) to New Jersey (a team soon to be relocated to Brooklyn) rather than attempt (try) to execute (do) a sign & trade with New Jersey (aforementioned team moving to Brooklyn).
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
The formatting of the headline allowed me to read this as "Joe Dumars Wants To Resign"
And I thought, “Okay.”
This signature is false.
by heWizard on Jul 13, 2011 3:47 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Heck, he’d probably fit in well with the other LA team. They could use a secondary ballhandler and have a gaping hole at SF, if you don’t count Aminu.
yeah...but they don't have anyone to give us.
Of course…if we could somehow swindle DeAndre Jordan away from them, Dumars might completely and utterly redeem himself in the eyes of everyone ever in the world completely all the time.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Resigning Prince would be a massive mistake, he can’t play point forward and JJ is better at the handsome. For the money he’s gonna cost the best move would be to trade him now.
by -PS- on Jul 14, 2011 11:58 AM EDT reply actions 8 recs
What about Tay's
Wicked first step and ability to drive right? Oh that’s right he can’t.
Worse SB matchup ever!
Sign and trade to Jazz
Jefferson(probably not), Favors(ehh) or Millsap(ehh..hh)?
They have a logjam at big men. better than having Prince at this point.
I doubt we have a shot at Favors
Because of his contract and upside, but the dude would be a perfect sidekick for Monroe.
Odds are Jefferson is the one to go because he just didn’t seem to fit in all that well not to mention he’s getting paid the most
Without a doubt, squats are a cure for everything.
by bearded thundar on Jul 17, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah i like Favors and Jefferson the most.
They both can fit. Favors is primarly a PF so Monroe can move to C and they are both young and have huge upside like you mentioned.
Jefferson is primarly a C, Monroe can move to PF, and is a 20-10 guy. and a big BIG guy that can fill up the middle.
by Bballkid-22 on Jul 22, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
you just do it
Someone needs to get Art Williams into Joe’s office
Without a doubt, squats are a cure for everything.
by bearded thundar on Jul 17, 2011 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
someone needs to get Art Parakhouski into Joe's office.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
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