Reports: Detroit To Offer Lawrence Frank Coaching Job
Per the scoop legend Yahoo!'s Adrian Wojnarowski, Lawrence Frank will be the next man in charge of the mutinous Pistons, assuming dude abides by its forthcoming terms:
Pistons beat writer Vince Goodwill chimed in about a half hour later, tweeting that a league source says it's a 'done deal.'
Now, I imagine there's going to be some initial disappointment around these parts because it's not Laimbeer, but at least it's not Mike Woodson/Dumars' choice, right? The report less than a week ago was that Dumars wanted Woodson for the job, but his new boss Tom Gores fancied Frank. If that's true, then I think Gores is making it pretty clear who is running the show.
Either way, Frank is a strong choice. He has experience (and a record for consecutive wins to start a coaching career!), he's defensive minded, and perhaps most importantly he's not another pluck from the 2004 Larry Brown family tree of coaching. I'm just a little surprised they're going forward with the move now with the lockout in full swing and there being no signs of it ending any time soon. Let's hope good news on that comes next.
[H/T's to DBB All-Star Kriz for posting this in the FanShots and Boney for sending a note to me on Twitter while I was putting something together]
329 comments
|
Add comment
|
3 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
no laimbeer, so not watching any games*
*if there are any
GTFO



That's the double-truth, Ruth.
by Mike Payne on Jul 21, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 18 recs
this guy needs to pay some dues
"Don't know whatcha got, 'til it's goooonnnee..."
by BandWagonerPaysTheDues on Jul 21, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Mike
That’s awesome beyond description lol.
by fiendishdr.wu on Jul 21, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
wow...it took me four different views over the course of 2 hours to understand what it was...
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
lmfao @ MFMP!
That’s classic shit bro.
The artist formally known as DetBalla.
by BillyRude on Jul 21, 2011 7:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bravissimo
The cat pic is just fucking priceless. Like cat’s current gig is to be on some Asian dictator’s lap, trying to look more imperious than his master.
In the land of milk and honey you must put them on the table...
by V. on Jul 22, 2011 4:26 AM EDT up reply actions
The Jersey says
“Detroit Pistons”
not
“Detroit Bill Laimbeers”
by Big Z in Orlando on Jul 22, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
The standings will say
30w 52l
(if there are games)
by redwingxviii on Jul 22, 2011 11:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
my issue isn't wins and losses, necessarily
not a likable team, in my mind. the empty seats at the palace agree with me.
I think my hate contract with this team expires in 3 or 4 years. But there was a Laimbeer opt-out clause.
by redwingxviii on Jul 22, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
GTFO



That's the double-truth, Ruth.
by Mike Payne on Jul 22, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
nope
I don’t smoke.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
by Mike Payne on Jul 22, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
since i don't know you
curious, friendly question – did you ever play basketball? you can answer truthfully, dishonestly, or with a picture of something funny. just curious.
by redwingxviii on Jul 22, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I've played enough basketball for me + 2 or 3 DBBers
I started when I was 4 and have played for the past 24 years.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Please help me
I do not still understand this pictures.
Please give me some hint.
Where broken English happens
Fair enough.
I sure as hell couldn’t figure this out in Spanish (of which I speak .6), German (of which I speak .4), Burmese (of which I speak .2) or Filipino (of which I speak less than .1).
Three words:
1) The first picture is a big vehicle being pulled by a horse, which used to be known as a “w _ _ _ _”. And notice who the people are on this vehicle; they are members of a ____________. This first word is a compound word and contains both of the clues.
2) This might look like a donkey. It is. But there is another word for donkey. A hint is contained in my Jazz Butcher lyrics below.
3) The third one is pretty obvious.
You combine the three and you see a common term on DBB meaning, roughly, " a fan who is immature and emotional and either loves or hates the team from minute to minute based on what his/her immature emotions tell currently tell that person about the organization current state or even latest move".
My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)
by MrHappyMushroom on Jul 23, 2011 6:52 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks alot
however, I asked for second one.
Ferris wheel, Weather report and FAN?
Still thinking…
Where broken English happens
Ferris wheels are at fairs, WEATHER report, and Fan
Fair Weather Fan.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 23, 2011 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Shit…DEFINITELY refuse to pay any attention to this team, since you know for a fact that Laimbeer would have led to 50-70 wins!
My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)
by MrHappyMushroom on Jul 23, 2011 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Bill Laimbeer
would’ve brought this teams 112 wins next season alone, smacking donuts out of Charlie V’s hands all the while.
Or, y’know, he could have just brought back an identity to a fairly listless team. Not that I’ll be missing any games regardless.
by BoogieWoogie M.D. on Jul 24, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
A Jazz Butcher Song Just for YOU!!!
You wonder why nobody ever seems to talk to you
After all, you use an aerosol and you’ve got three pairs of shoes
You got yourself a little education and you keep up with the news
But when you walk in to a party everybody stares
The girls drop drinks into their laps and the boys fall off their chairs
Oh, but you’re all alone when everybody’s leaving in pairs
If you ever stopped a moment and thought about your ears
(“Big, aren’t they?” “I suppose they are”)
Or that noise you make when you’ve had a bottle of beer
Oh, try to make a mental leap and perhaps it will come clear
Ohhh,
You’re the man with the head of an ass
You’re the man with the head of an ass
You’re the man with the head of an ass
And that’s crass
Mmm, pin me back, Max
You want I should tell you something?
You see,
You’re the kind of person folks don’t like to be around
You make them feel uneasy when you say something profound
If you look close enough I’m sure the reason can be found
You’re the man with the head of an ass
You’re the man with the head of an ass
You’re the man with the head of an ass
That’s crass
Ooooh, how disgusting
How now, man with the head of an ass
How now, man with the head of an ass
How now, man with the head of an ass
How now, man with the head of an ass
My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)
by MrHappyMushroom on Jul 23, 2011 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Um, this was for redwingvii, by the way...
(He may be a fine guy, mind you. But if the comment of renouncing fandom because Laimbeer wasn’t hired was in earnest, the song applies…)
My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)
by MrHappyMushroom on Jul 23, 2011 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Dumars wanted Woodson, Gores and Checketts wanted Frank
This makes me happy. While I wanted Laimbeer quite badly, I’m okay with this. It reflects the fact that Gores truly will challenge and push Joe— and this time, Joe lost. If only we had that type of dichotomy running for the last several years…
Welcome to Detroit, Larry Frank.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
by Mike Payne on Jul 21, 2011 6:10 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I suppose I should have read your write-up before commenting
instead of just echoing your sentiment. MPfail. Rec’d, Packey!
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
haha
1. I’m not afraid to admit that reading what you said was a nice little ego boost. Hey, I thought the same thing as MFMP, cool! (Ungass, don’t even think about it….)
2. At least you went back and read it …/glares over at Garrett, I haven’t forgotten!
Ha! I was just thinking about that the other day and having a chuckle.
by garrettelliott on Jul 21, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
now, countdown until Steve Kays says it :)
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
by Mike Payne on Jul 21, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I'm going to echo this sentiment as well.
I’d rather have Frank than Woodson, so that’s nice, but I see the change in the organization’s decision-making process as the most positive aspect of this report.
I see the change in the organization’s decision-making process as the most positive aspect of this report.
Yes. The previous decision tree was…
JOD: wants to do X
JOD: asks KDIAFI if the Pistons have enough $ to do X
KDIAFA: if YES, then JOD does X; if NO, then JOD does not do X
I'm not sure the YES branch was ever utilized.
Anybody can happen!
by Tom Y. on Jul 22, 2011 4:37 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Now Gores needs to insist that Frank hire Laimbeer as a big man coach.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Not sure what the protocol is for something like this since they interviewed Laimbeer too...
but he’s likely out of a job in Minnesota unless whoever Minnesota hires wants to keep him on board which also seems rare.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
He needs a job assisting the Pistons, then he can step up to head coach when Frank is Inevitably banished from Motown for not having any Soul.
To experience the consequences of my own choices. This is why I live
Don't you think if he's an assistant with our future former coach that the house will be cleaned once again when another new coach comes along?
These coaches tend to assemble their own crews. Flip Saunders wasn’t a part of the Larry Brown regime in any way. Seems like Laimbeer should just align himself with the coach most likely to take the reins after Frank’s year.
Ok. Lets go a different direction with this.
Scenarion : Frank becomes coach. Spends some time in Detroit, hangs out with some Shady self proclaimed internet “Bad Boys” as some equally shady and yet impressive musical establishments. Which may just happen to serve alcohol to comfort the surly soul. Frank begins to understand what it is to be Detoit. He begins to understand the soul of Motown. Frank begins to dream of having a soul. Soon after he leaves the team to his assistant coach, one Bill Laimbeer, so that Frank can go off and find the soul that he has been missing all his life. He returns later during the championship and after finding his lost soul with one Kwame Brown and a very large cake, set in the shape of a Red Panda, to celebrate.
Simple right?
To experience the consequences of my own choices. This is why I live
by JumpingBlob on Jul 21, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I share this feeling (with MP and Packey)
I think of what were the realistic choices (doesn’t seem that Laimbeer was one to them) Frank was the best. And all that it implies, like it is said above, is encouraging.
WWGMD?
DUMARS!!! GORES!!!! GORES BEATS DUMARS!!!!!
/random 80’s child’d
by garrettelliott on Jul 21, 2011 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I Think Frank Will Be OK
…they can always go to Lam if Frank doesn’t work out.
The other thing, you kind of know what you’re getting with Woodson, I don’t Frank yet has reached his ceiling as a HC. I thought he did a very good job with NJ under difficult circumstances.
In the land of milk and honey you must put them on the table...
by V. on Jul 22, 2011 4:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Frank is probably the best choice available, so I'm satisfied.
I only hope we can even out our roster before the season* to increase his chance of success.
I think evening out the roster is more important than who the coach is
by Toledo Joe on Jul 21, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I agree and disagree
I think Frank will have a better shot with this roster(if we don’t make any moves) then Woodson would have, mostly due to his roots to our lovely vets.
I think Frank will have a better shot with this roster(if we don’t make any moves) then Woodson would have
you mean a better shot at the 7th/8th pick again?
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
7th/8th pick
Next years draft could very well be stacked with great lotto picks. I’ve been checking out all of the top prospects for the next couple drafts and its looking pretty good. I hope we can swing a 7th/8th pick next year but hopefully through a trade not by losing. Either way I’ll take it cause it will help the team in the long run.
The artist formally known as DetBalla.
by BillyRude on Jul 21, 2011 7:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I have a feeling we’ll wind up with the 5th worst record and a top 5 pick next season.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
I have a feeling we'll be a top 5 but end up with the 8th having been leap frogged by other lottyer teams.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Not a chance.
We’ll get the number five pick, alright. But JOD will agree to swap first round picks with the Nuggets, as long as the Nuggets agree to take Monroe’s salary off our hands….
There ought to be some awesome, underappreciated, low-efficiency guards available with #23 next year!
My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)
by MrHappyMushroom on Jul 23, 2011 6:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes
But are there any good combo guards available in 2012.
by Big Z in Orlando on Jul 22, 2011 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
There are almost always good combo guards. That’s what makes them soooooo valuble!!!
The artist formally known as DetBalla.
by BillyRude on Jul 22, 2011 4:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Gingers do have souls… and head coaching positions.
by TDP on Jul 21, 2011 6:28 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Chris Mannix is a bit of a deutschbag, though. He’s guest hosted The Dan Patrick Show a few times and always finds some way to sneak in the fact that he has been on a plane with supermodels.
It Doesn't Count (Warning, Adult Material)
The most annoying writer of my lifetime has to be Mike Sager. Sager would write these just utterly annoying articles about women neither he nor you had any chance of fucking whatsoever. I mean, if they’re hot, and you can’t get naked with them, then why even bother? I never understood this, it’s just a waste of time, IMHO.
My favorite one came from Esquire quite a few years ago, dude writes this piece of verbal cunnilingus (wow, I got that in one try without spellcheck correcting me? I must not be getting senile yet) about a certain starlet who went on to host a popular celebrity blowjob show on cable. Now, she is smoking hot and 100% my type, but certain starlet was also known as perhaps LA’s #1 party girl of her era. She was a wild one.. Unlike the others, you could have actually gotten naked with her for about $1K/hr if you knew who to call-a couple of my friends did, before she became famous on TV. Remember, this was the late ’90s, Clinton was President, everyone was making stupid money off the Internet in one way or another.
So, yeah, I agree, if you’re not banging them, it just makes you look like a complete eunuch to even discuss it. Really not very manly at all.
In the land of milk and honey you must put them on the table...
by V. on Jul 22, 2011 4:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the heads up, Packey
Pretty sure that’s an actual basketball fact worth knowing, which are far and few between right now.
"Don't know whatcha got, 'til it's goooonnnee..."
by BandWagonerPaysTheDues on Jul 21, 2011 7:04 PM EDT reply actions
I wish it was Laimbeer so I could've done this:

But seriously, I’m just glad we have a coach now. It doesn’t matter who it was really.
next
Get Laimbeer or Ewing as assistants
Trade and get rid of as many players as possible and throw 10-15 mil at:
Nene
Marc Gasol
Al Jefferson
Deandre Jordan
Dalembert
Chandler
Trade and get rid of as many players as possible and throw 10-15 mil at:
Nene
Marc Gasol
Al Jefferson
Deandre Jordan
Dalembert
Chandler
Not gonna happen guy.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
I Can See (2) Or (4)
and if it’s (6), it’s because Dallas can’t afford him anymore.
In the land of milk and honey you must put them on the table...
by V. on Jul 22, 2011 4:40 AM EDT up reply actions
The whole idea is based on the assumption we can clear 10-15M cap for this free agency. The best shot at clearing cap ended in February. The only way to clear more space now is to shed some low-level contracts for picks and cash, and to do that we’d have to do individual-for-pick trades of Ben Wallace, Austin Daye and Terrico White— which would only clear up about $5M. If you can talk someone into taking Bynum’s deal for picks (which is crazy unlikely), you can chop another $3.5M/yr.
Now, given that we’re approaching a new CBA that might have different cap issues, who is going to take on players for nothing right now (let alone those players for nothing)? It’s more than illogical to assume we can clear that kind of space right now.
Even if we can offer upwards of $10M for DeAndre Jordan, is he worth that? He’s solid, absolutely solid, but not $10M solid. Also, if $10M is all we can offer, that’s in the ballpark for the Clips to match.
Last, why would Memphis not lock up their pretty remarkable core that went deep into the playoffs this season? They’d be out of their heads to let Gasol walk even if a team like Detroit were able to offer $10M. Other teams will likely offer this range. Memphis is going to have a tough time finding profitability with such a high payroll, but with success like they have, it’s a fair risk to spend now and solve later.
it’s because Dallas can’t afford him anymore
If Dallas can’t afford him anymore, let’s just go ahead and assume we can’t either.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
Rip Hamilton
Ben Gordon
Charlie Villanueva
Jason Maxiell
and now, potentially, Taysolashaun Prince
WWGMD?
Common term used around here to refer to the countless number of times
that Tayshaun held onto the ball for far too long only to put up a shot over a double team or pass off to Stuckey with less than 3 on the shotclock.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
“LeBron? I got this.”

“Caron Butler? I got this.”

“Wilson Chandler and 2 seconds left on the shot clock? I GOT THIS.”

“Mo Evans? Mouse in the house, err’ybody. I got this.”

“Hey Tay, remember that time you got the ball and held onto it for 23 seconds, passing up open team mates cutting to the hoop? Veteran leadership, baby!”

by garrettelliott on Jul 23, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
well. if thats the case
Let’s commence the andre Drummond / jared sullinger sweepstakes
Agreed
Just because I can see it, doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. Too many variables. I’m fairly convinced that Tay and Rip are leaving, though, and how that impacts the cap picture, or how the new CBA, if ever signed affects the cap picture, it’s way too early to tell.
$10M for Gasol or Jordan is overpaying, in the former not so much a reach. Memphis has said the right things about keeping Gasol, but with Gay and Z-Bo, they already have more or less two max players. Some team is going to offer $10M to Gasol (as stated some time back, one professional BB bettor of my acquaintance said something like, “[Gasol’s] good, but not $10M/year good”.
Either would be fine, bur Gasol particularly would compliment Monroe’s skills.
In the land of milk and honey you must put them on the table...
by V. on Jul 22, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
pretty pretty please?
Not even Deandre Jordan?
10-15 mil ?
I could see that for Nene, Gasol or Jefferson but not the last three. I do like the last 3 on your list though. I remeber saying how we should of picked up Tyson last year and MP saying that he didn’t like him. I may be mistaken but pretty sure. Foot in mouth/d? I could also see Dalembert having a big impact on our team.
The artist formally known as DetBalla.
by BillyRude on Jul 21, 2011 8:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I remeber saying how we should of picked up Tyson last year and MP saying that he didn’t like him. I may be mistaken but pretty sure. Foot in mouth/d?
I didn’t like him a few years back, but if I said that last summer it’s clearly me who has a foot in the mouf. Dude led the league in O-Rtg in the regular season and again in the playoffs, scoring at a blindingly high rate being a sure thing for rocket passes from Kidd and others. He was a rock upon which that team’s offense ran smoothly.
That doesn’t mean I’d want to sign him now, he’ll be over-priced, still an injury risk and there’s no reason he (or any of the players Victor_E listed) would want anything to do with Detroit. Also, how do you make trades to clear that kind of cap space, Victor? You can move low-level players for cash and picks, but there’s really no sound way of clearing that kind of cap after a season that just ended. You need to make moves before the deadline for cap relief.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
Oh, good.
Dissension has already set in amongst the ranks.
I already talked to a player about lawrence frank. Not impressed if the pistons hire him he must win them over
It’s Rip, isn’t it?
Which is why he's a much better hire than Woodson
You’re not buddies! You’re not supposed to be.
The way I see it, the players have to win him over.
WWGMD?
“Oh yeah, Rip, you’re not impressed? Well I’m not impressed by you, motherfucker! Wearing a mask like a little pussy! Can’t take a little broken nose!? Feels good, lets you know you’re alive!”
/breaks own nose
by Shinons* on Jul 21, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Where'd that subject line go!?
Was supposed to say “But Laimbeer woulda been fun.” I blame the Internets.
what an asshole
I hope the cancer that said that is long gone before any thing resembling a season starts.
It would also be nice if that “cancer to the team and the league” was gone too
Welcome... to the Wallace-hood
I wouldn't mind that
but we’re already short on bigs so unless we have another big in the lineup, I prefer he stays.
The Mutinous Pistons
I wanted Laimbeer for just this reason, to quash the a-holes on the team. I wasn’t sure that Frank had the juice to turn around a team full of entitled veterans who have an inflated opinion of themselves. But if Gores has Frank’s back and Gores is cutting the checks it might work out.
I’m happiest that Dumars didn’t get his first choice. It gives me hope that Dumars will either change up some of his crazier ways (overspending on day 1 of free agency, enabling massive roster imbalance, thinking he can teach Piston defense to stiffs like he’s Yoda or something) or be gone.
I have a feeling Frank is tougher than we all think.
by garrettelliott on Jul 21, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
To expand on that thought:
1) He’s little.
2) He’s a ginger.
3) He drops bombs on live ESPN like it’s going out of style.
by garrettelliott on Jul 21, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd For Link To C&L
John Amato is must reading, except when he’s discussing NY sports.
In the land of milk and honey you must put them on the table...
by V. on Jul 22, 2011 4:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I instantly like him 1000% more after hearing that.
‘Cause I like cursin’! And loose broads! And boozin’!
Zicke, zacke, zicke, zacke, hoi, hoi, hoi!
I hope his potty mouth continues and he calls Charlie Villaneuva a cumswallowing whoremagnet fuckface.
WORD PLAY
hollywoodsloce.tumblr.com
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 22, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
All NBA Players As A Rule Are Whoremagnets
Even Darko knew that at 17. Remember his famous interview in ESPN Mag where he “could have any woman he wanted”?
So, if Frank has any stones as a coach, certainly he’ll come up with something more creative.
In the land of milk and honey you must put them on the table...
by V. on Jul 25, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Cumswallowing dickmaggot fuckface. Dude’s Irish. He should be able to muster something to that affect.
WORD PLAY
hollywoodsloce.tumblr.com
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 25, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
In that case, I hope he earns their trust by having a drinking challenge
Irish and ginger, dude could drink any of those fools under the table…so long as its not vodka and Jonas.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 25, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Definitely Rip
They really need to trade him, or they might as well have slapped a kick me sign on L-Frank’s back before the first day of camp.
Welcome... to the Wallace-hood
While I'd prefer Laimbeer
I really think Frank was the guy with the most upside and the lowest risk. A solid half court approach with strong defenses, had his previous head coaching stint with a good team dismissed – just really reminds me of Carlisle. Also IU alums FTW.
Still, it’ll probably end badly unless he changes his name to Felix Frankfurter. Then he would become undeniably awesome. “Don’t like the rotations Price? Fuck you, I’m Felix Frankfurter, and I’m undeniably awesome.”
by Shinons* on Jul 21, 2011 7:56 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Felix Frankfurter Was Undeniably Awesome
I agree with your analysis 100%.
In the land of milk and honey you must put them on the table...
by V. on Jul 22, 2011 4:44 AM EDT up reply actions
That starts with not handing him a roster experiment gone out of control
Welcome... to the Wallace-hood
Exactly
Playing folks out of position in “small ball” lineups, and having the absurd logjam at guard is a recipe for an unhappy locker room.
if he's lucky
he can hold the record for most consecutive losses to start one as well.
but seriously i think it’s a good hire. laimbeer would have been fun, and probably made for better post-game interviews, but given the candidates i feel like the best choice was made.
now….what to do about this shitty roster…
I like him more and did so even earlier.
by TDP on Jul 21, 2011 11:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
I like him most and did so earliest.
by Shinons* on Jul 21, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
welcome Frank
I wish you success here I hope Gores pushes Dumars to put together something looking halfway competitive. I don’t expect any coach to succeed with this roster.
It's a start.
Prefer him to Woodson but we really need to clean this roster up now. Oh yeah, good to see we have an owner willing to set the table.
I'm off to point the pink pistol at the porcelain firing range.
by Laughton on Jul 21, 2011 10:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
league coaching sources said. Celtics assistant Roy Rogers, who was on Frank’s staff with the Nets, is the most likely to join him in Detroit.
from here:
http://www.freep.com/article/20110721/SPORTS03/110721047/Pistons-ready-hire-Lawrence-Frank-coach?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
I’m cool with this, too. Welcome to our next ex-coach!
by brgulker on Jul 22, 2011 9:38 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 4 recs
fist bump
In all seriousness, I think Frank is solid. I hope that Gores reigns in Joe’s propensity to fire coaches when things get messy, though, as they likely will given this team’s construction. It’s time for some real accountability; no more scapegoating.
Here are some realistic expectations I’d want Frank to meet if I hired him:
- Improve the team defense
- Play the best players, regardless of salary structure, age, experience
- Realistic improvement from the young players.
- Manage personalities in the locker room, not in the public/media
I think if the franchise improves in all those areas, Frank will have had a very successful first year. Wins and losses definitely shouldn’t be the benchmark.
Yeah, my hunch is not to worry about his lack of ability to control a locker room
He’s got seven years experience and has coached teams with playoff success. Plus, Gores has the money to tell any player pulling any future Rip/Tay/Stuckey/McGrady bullshit to get the fuck out of Dodge.
I agree with the general idea that first time coaches can be the best hire. But there would be SO MUCH downside to taking a risk here. If things start to go poorly at the outset, how long would it take for players, fans, press to leap on the “how many times do you hire a first year coach before you realized it’s a terrible idea??!!” train.
We do know that Frank at least CAN win in the NBA. He’s done it. Laimbeer wouldn’t be a pushover, that’s for sure. But he could end up being a poor head coach.
I’m good with this choice.
My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)
by MrHappyMushroom on Jul 23, 2011 7:02 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah lets put Frank's players into context...
You have Vince Carter who refused to play in Toronto while demanding a trade.
You have Kenyon Martin who has a pair of lips tattooed to the side of his neck for god sake.
You have Jason Kidd who hit his wife.
You have Richard Jefferson who…well okay I guess RJ doesn’t seem all that bad.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
You have Richard Jefferson who…well okay I guess RJ doesn’t seem all that bad.
Have you seen that shoulder tattoo? Clearly he’s a sociopath
Welcome... to the Wallace-hood
Didn't RJ stand his financee up at his wedding
Or something like that?
by Toledo Joe on Jul 23, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh please
Gores don’t know jack shit about running a basketball team. Just cut the fucking checks and sit down please. I fucking hate all this I hate Joe D gibberish because he made a few moves that didn’t work out. It happens,get over it. He got us a championship not 10 or 11 years ago,but 7 years ago and almost got us another that following year. I am fine with the coaching hire,I just hope like hell he won’t be getting wedgies and smacked upside the head everyday. But hey,if it doesn’t work out at least you cannot blame the Pistons legend Joe D for this on. You guys do great research and all (some of you) but you guys kill me with this Dumars hate. In a way I hope he quits so you can see how long before we get another championship. “Gores won Dumars lost” Stfu please!
by Roco on Jul 22, 2011 11:56 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
i like what you have to say
but i still hate the rip, cv and ben gordon contracts. makes this team unwatchable
by redwingxviii on Jul 22, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
ALL THESE PICTURES ARE SO FUNNY REC'D SO HARD
+1,000,000
by redwingxviii on Jul 22, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
claiming that you're going to rec someone without actually rec'ing is not only rude
but it’s downright mean.
Also, sarcasm, especially on the internet, is truly the lowest form of humor.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 22, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
i think the shit people give others for no reason
is below the lowest form of humor
by redwingxviii on Jul 22, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
and these retarded gifs and jpegs
are below even that
by redwingxviii on Jul 22, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
ALL YOUR COMMENTS ARE SO FUNNY REC'D SO HARD
+1,000,000
by Grant E. on Jul 22, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
i think the shit people give others for no reason is below the lowest form of humor
I fully agree, there’s no place here for that. Now the shit people give others when there clearly is a reason, now that shit is hilarious.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
by Mike Payne on Jul 22, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
who said giving someone shit is a form of humor?
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
holy shit
Without a doubt, squats are a cure for everything.
by bearded thundar on Jul 25, 2011 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Gores is in the business of doin' business. And when it comes to business, Gores knows his business better than most people in business.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 22, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
u wanted woodson or dumars to make the pick?
by jadedeed2327 on Jul 22, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
i wonder what theyll say in press conference about how they picked him
by jadedeed2327 on Jul 22, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
they'll probably say something involving punctuation.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
by Mike Payne on Jul 22, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
but i still hate the rip, cv and ben gordon contracts. makes this team unwatchable
Man I hate those moves too..Along with the Darko draft .. trust me.
Gores is in the business of doin’ business. And when it comes to business, Gores knows his business better than most people in business.
No debate there
Whoah, me too!!!!11.
Wow what a loyal Pistons fan..Gotta love it.
u wanted woodson or dumars to make the pick?
No that’s a fine hire..I hope he gets respected because he reminds me of a Jeff Van Gundy,but I think he is a decent choice. Much better than Woodson. I personally would rather have Lamb Bully so he can grow with a young team,but it’s cool. What irks me is the Joe D hate like he has done nothing for this organization. Like he has been GM this whole time and failed to produce. "Someone quoted as saying “Joe D lost -Gores Won” like Joe D has run this team into the ground,and is now the enemy. I’m not sure if these Haters have nothing better to do, but be miserable so they surf the net looking to make miserable comments,or maybe they have no ties to the city at all,and just Bandwagon fans who want to throw dirt now that we are losing,or maybe they are just too young to remember the history of Joe Dumars and the Detroit Pistons. But I have lived in the city all my life until I moved around 5-6 years ago,so I remember when we won those back to backs and,as a young boy remembering the whole neighborhood (maybe the whole city) chanting “Baaad Boooyss” at the same time!! And I remember what Joe D is to the city of Detroit..First as a player,now as a GM..To just disrespect that is nuts to me.
To insult a legend like that for a few bad moves,is kind of like how LA Lakers fans boo’d them last year..DIVA LIKE. And Michigan does not make fake Divas.
I’m glad Gores knows his position. Dumars works for him, not the other way around. I believe he knows what he’s doing. He saw what I saw. Between Woodson and Lawrence, he chose the better man for the job
That’s the thing people are missing I think. Of course Gores is the owner,and should know his position. But people act like Joe D doesn’t know his position. Do you not think Joe followed and tried to work against Mr Davidson? Who do you think put Carlisle and Brown on those short leashes? It wasn’t Joe D man he was just doing what he was told..Just knowing his position,just like he did as a player,and I’m sure he will continue to do this. He has never tried to “take over” not his style.
Roco, those of us who are against Dumars have an opinion based on objective merit— it’s not blind hate, and inversely, he doesn’t deserve blind support. No one does. Those of us who are against Dumars have made decisions about his capabilities based upon a very, very long string of failures in drafting, trading and signing players and hiring/firing coaches… in other words, every single thing a GM is supposed to do.
If you’d like, I can explain in objective means why those of us who are against Joe Dumars feel the way we do. I assure you, none of us hate Joe Dumars, none of us feel that he’s the enemy, and none of us here are “bandwagon fans” that want to “throw dirt on his name”. Furthermore, we’re not disrespecting Joe Dumars nor are we insulting him as the legend that he is.
He has, however, worn out his welcome. He did so very long ago. If you can talk about it like an adult and not insult those of us who have this opinion about Joe, I can give you some objective insight into why we’ve lost hope.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
Exactly
I don’t think if Dumars came through DBB that he would felt disrespected/unappreciated by anything from the regulars. None of it’s personal and I’m sure he knows as well as any of us do that he’s not done a great job, and that he has thick enough skin to understand the sentiment from those of us who don’t think he’s the best man for the job moving forward. Personally, I’ve tried to convince myself he can turn it around but just can’t do it. However, I assure you Roco, I won’t be taking down the image on my mantle:

by Shinons* on Jul 22, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Ok Mike you seem to be the voice around here,but I also am noticing your respectful “tone” this afternoon so I will return that respect this afternoon. I like this blog,I really do,and like I said before I appreciate the articles,and the effort to pull up stats. Also I am very aware of Joe D’s screwups,now but other then hiring Furry Curry what has he really done wrong In the hiring or firing of coaches? It just seems to me that you along with others just don’t like the guy,and that’s fine you are entitled to that but I am also entitled to defend him. If I can put Joe D’s all around performance on a scale. The positives clearly outway the negatives. Yet you continue to bash him. A legend of my city.
by Roco on Jul 22, 2011 6:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
1) There are more mistakes than hiring Curry and 2) coaching hires can't be looked at in a vacuum. Personnel decisions made that impact his coaching decisions should also be considered.
For Example:
1) Hiring Michael Curry was a mistake.
1A) Hiring Michael Curry and then 4 games into his rookie head cocahing season trading away his biggest lockerroom asset simply exacerbates the original hire.
2) Hiring John Kuester was a mistake.
2A) Hiring John Kuester instead of committing to Avery Johnson’s long-term plan exacerbated the mistake (I’ll concede that a longer-term contract may have been limited in opportunity due to KD, however I don’t see this as a plausible argument considering he then went out and spent $90M on 2 mediocre players)
So at this point he’s gone 0 for 2 on the past 2 coaching hires. Additionally, one could argue that he SHOULD have supported his young EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL coach in Carlisle rather than giving in to Mr. D’s demands of cutting him loose simply because he wasn’t all buddy-buddy with the Palace staff.
At best, on ocaching alone, Dumars is 2 for 4 having gone 0 for 2 in his last 2 hires. But his last two hirers are far worse than the success of his first two hires especially considering either of the first 2 coaches could have/should have been around longer than they were.
I think there is neough on his coaching alone to question his judgment.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
For Example:
1) Hiring Michael Curry was a mistake.
1A) Hiring Michael Curry and then 4 games into his rookie head cocahing season trading away his biggest lockerroom asset simply exacerbates the original hire.
2) Hiring John Kuester was a mistake.
2A) Hiring John Kuester instead of committing to Avery Johnson’s long-term plan exacerbated the mistake (I’ll concede that a longer-term contract may have been limited in opportunity due to KD, however I don’t see this as a plausible argument considering he then went out and spent $90M on 2 mediocre players)
That’s all hindsight man. Curry seemed like an X and O type of guy even as a player,and it didn’t work out. John Kuester was supposed to be this offensive Guru but it didn’t work out. Frank is currently supposed to be a defensive expert but time will tell. It is either going to work or it’s not..But lets flip the coin here. He took a chance on Carlisle and that was a great hire,and it helped turn our team around (Along with the brilliant FA signings and pretty good draft picks) Then Brown is hired,and we win a championship..WHOA!! So I would say that’s and overall of 2-2 but add in all the playoff games and the Championship ring I don’t see where the negative out weighs the positives.
Now as far as the FA signings. This is not a sunshine state like Cali or FLORIDA. Hell this is not even a thriving state like Chicago or Newyork. So do you have any idea what he has to go through to get a decent FA to sign with the Pistons and they are now losing? He took a chance, and as of yet it has not panned out.
Additionally, one could argue that he SHOULD have supported his young EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL coach in Carlisle rather than giving in to Mr. D’s demands of cutting him loose simply because he wasn’t all buddy-buddy with the Palace staff.
I think there is neough on his coaching alone to question his judgment.
Ok wait a minute..First the gripe was that Dumars is trying dominate Gores team,but taking a stand,now you are saying Dumars is wrong for not standing up to Mr D? Mr D is the boss..Just like Gores remember?
How in the world can you question a “champions” judgment?
How in the world can you question a "champions" judgment?




by Shinons* on Jul 22, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
this isn't a phrase.
it’s just a collection of photos of “champions” who have made questionable decisions.
but if it were a phrase it might go something like this
Hitler fail Ben (been) hulk scootin’
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Where did I say that Dumars is trying to dominate Gores?
And you can’t simply disregard his mistakes because they’re mistakes in hindsight. They’re mistakes regardless of how you look at them. Where was Curry known as an X’s and O’s guy? My recollection was that he held great rapport with the roster as it was currently structured (and in the league as he played a big part in the player’s association) but he never displayed a higher level of understanding of the game as a player and he had only 1 season as an assistant coach. Hardly enough time to establish himself as an X’s and O’s.
As for Kuester…well he was given much of the credit for Cleveland’s offensive success before being brought to Detroit…but despite having arguably the best offensive player in the league, they were 13th in points per game…soooo his incredible offensive genius got them to middle of the pack from 24th the year before. However most of that gain was due to an increase in FG%, an area that a coach has less control over. Assists per game only improved 3 spots from 24th to 21st…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
And you can’t simply disregard his mistakes because they’re mistakes in hindsight.
I agree,a mistake is a mistake. But it could have went either way. Curry could have been successful,as well as Kuester. Keep Billups on the roster,and who knows what would have happened.
Part One: Trades
If I can put Joe D’s all around performance on a scale. The positives clearly outway the negatives. Yet you continue to bash him. A legend of my city.
Here is Joe’s trade history over the last five years, in order of recency:
Traded Arron Afflalo for a second round pick.
Traded Amir Johnson for Fabricio Oberto.
Traded Chauncey Billups, Antonio McDyess for Allen Iverson.
Traded Nazr Mohammad for Primoz Brezec and Walter Herrmann.
Traded Maurice Evans for the draft selection of Cheikh Samb.
Note that all of the players Joe traded away are still in the league. Note that all of the players Joe acquired are not. In fact, note that all of the players Joe traded away were starters this last season. That is five years without a single successful trade, Roco. The players he traded away could likely beat the current Pistons in a season matchup (i’m not guessing, i’m roughly combining winshares and per miute box score stats to determine who would win):
Chauncey Billups
Arron Afflalo
Maurice Evans
Amir Johnson
Nazr Mohammad
Five years of miserable trades like this would cost just about any GM his job if he wasn’t a hometown hero.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
by Mike Payne on Jul 22, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Here is Joe’s trade history over the last five years, in order of recency:
Traded Arron Afflalo for a second round pick.
Traded Amir Johnson for Fabricio Oberto.
Traded Chauncey Billups, Antonio McDyess for Allen Iverson.
Traded Nazr Mohammad for Primoz Brezec and Walter Herrmann.
Traded Maurice Evans for the draft selection of Cheikh Samb.
Note that all of the players Joe traded away are still in the league. Note that all of the players Joe acquired are not. In fact, note that all of the players Joe traded away were starters this last season. That is five years without a single successful trade, Roco. The players he traded away could likely beat the current Pistons in a season matchup (i’m not guessing, i’m roughly combining winshares and per miute box score stats to determine who would win):
Chauncey Billups
Arron Afflalo
Maurice Evans
Amir Johnson
Nazr Mohammad
Five years of miserable trades like this would cost just about any GM his job if he wasn’t a hometown hero.
Ok now tell me the positives? ..That’s just it you have none, even when they are right in front of you. It’s all hate when it comes to the legend Joe D.
Actually Roco, the way an argument works is YOU provide US the positives since ya know, you're the one claiming there are so many.
Here’s your chance to shine and prove us all wrong.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 22, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
No see...we're discussing trades, not championship (mind you we only won one under the management of Dumars)
And that 1 championship is now well in the past.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Don't waste our time with this
Every trade mentioned was after the Championship. For you to say that Joe Dumars the GM has a free pass for everything that has occurred in the years that followed 2004 is pure delusion.
Even Joe Dumars himself is disappointed with the pistons performance over these last years, and he has said so in many press conferences. If you listen to his press conferences its also clear that he has no real clear plan, his priorities shift from year to year, and he is losing the ability to get deals done that even he knows he needs to get done.
Joe D was great, but saying he deserves to keep GM is like saying Mike Tyson can win a heavy weight title today, or that Allen Iverson could lead a team to a championship in 2009.
Welcome... to the Wallace-hood
Oh jeez, I never put that all together about the trades
Now, in fairness, you would have to say that the trades turned into the cash that got us CV and BG. But I still think we lose to that five we gave up.
Christ, your argument is tiresome.
Dumars gets his due here for the championships he won, both as a player and an executive. To suggest otherwise is just flat-out incorrect. The “disrespect” for Dumars’ past that you cite is nonexistent. Nobody here would prefer to see Dumars fail. Quite the opposite, actually. Everybody who frequents this blog would prefer to see the Pistons return to a point in which they are consistently contending for championships in the quickest manner possible.
As I’m typing this, I see that Mike has already responded in a way in which I’m sure will be a more eloquent manner than my own, but I digress. Nobody on DBB hates Dumars. Some of us hate the moves that he has made since 2006, but nobody hates the man himself. To write off reasonable, legitimate criticisms of his job performance as nothing more than “haters gonna hate” is about as lazy and unintelligent as arguments can get. There are no haters here. There are no bandwagon fans here. There are only Pistons fans, and like yourself, we only want what’s best for the organization. Everybody has different ideas for how the Pistons should return to that place, and immediately dismissing differing opinions from your own with the kind of blanket statements that you’ve made is nothing more than a hot load of bullshit.
Dumars has to bear the burden of responsibility for this team’s performance in the last few years, or at least a significant portion of it. This much is undeniable. As to whether his recent failures should be enough to cost him his job, well, that much is up for debate and it has been debated here often. If you care to use reasonable arguments to rationalize your position, you will be welcomed to join in those discussions. If you feel that Dumars remains the man for the job, that’s fine, but don’t come in here suggesting that his playing career or the 2004 Championship allows him carte blanche to run the organization without fear of repercussion, or that those who disagree with you cannot possibly share your connection with the team. You won’t find tolerance for those kinds of arguments, because they are unacceptable here.
by Grant E. on Jul 22, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Dumars gets his due here for the championships he won, both as a player and an executive. To suggest otherwise is just flat-out incorrect. The "disrespect" for Dumars’ past that you cite is nonexistent.
Nobody here would prefer to see Dumars fail.
Ok you must only see what you want to see around here. I never see the respect for Joe D around here. Maybe when they were winning,but right now,just fat jokes,and trying to make it out to be with some sort of battle between Joe D and Gores which is just flat out retarded. Hell..Mike was just quoted saying he wished Joe D would quit the job. WTF are you talking about?
Quite the opposite, actually. Everybody who frequents this blog would prefer to see the Pistons return to a point in which they are consistently contending for championships in the quickest manner possible.
Then stfu sit your ass down,and let it happen. Stop your whining and bitching like you’re from LA – MIA or something..If your a Diva then take that shit elsewhere!!
Then stfu sit your ass down,and let it happen. Stop your whining and bitching like you’re from LA – MIA or something..If your a Diva then take that shit elsewhere!!
Watch your tone, Roco. Personal attacks one of the few things that will get you banned here.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
Watch your tone, Roco. Personal attacks one of the few things that will get you banned here
Didn’t you tell me something about your Dick a week or so ago? That’s pretty personal. And you may want to tell him to calm his tone. Give respect, get respect simple as that. Read his post.
Didn’t you tell me something about your Dick a week or so ago?
Probably.
That’s pretty personal.
It’s not an attack though. Unless you’re into that sort of thing.
And you may want to tell him to calm his tone. Give respect, get respect simple as that. Read his post.
Grant said nothing out of line and handled himself perfectly. Respect isn’t given around here, Roco— it’s earned. Grant E draws a lot of water in this community. You don’t draw shit, Lebowski.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
by Mike Payne on Jul 22, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Well I tell you what. This is a internet blog so if you cannot handle me throwing back what you throw at me on the internet? Then do what you have to do. Who ever carries water or bread or oil or wheat or whatever.
This is a internet blog so if you cannot handle me throwing back what you throw at me on the internet?
No one is throwing anything at you Roco, relax. You haven’t earned anyone’s respect here by engaging the community intelligently and peacefully— and then you toss around a lot of insults. Relax, be cool, explain your opinions like an adult and you’ll earn the community’s respect.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
That’s what I have always done is show respect. Give it up trying to defend your buddys. They get out of line-I get out of line. We have been here before.
Dude, no one here has gotten out of line but you.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
by Mike Payne on Jul 22, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
at least he said please!
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Grant E. treats objects like women, man!
by Grant E. on Jul 22, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Didn’t you tell me something about your Dick a week or so ago?
I see that you’ve capitalized my dick. How very nice of you to notice.
by TDP on Jul 23, 2011 7:05 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Saying "We respect what Joe Dumars has accomplished" is the respect we give JoD
And at this current moment, he doesn’t deserve anything more than that. As for the battle between Gores and JoD, the media outlets that we read are the ones that highlighted the apparent difference in opinion between Gores and JoD with regards to the latest coaching hire. Add to that that Gores specifically stated that he and his ownership group would constantly challenge Dumars in the decisions he made, and on top of that, Gores hired an outside consultant that had an obvious influence on who was brought in for an interview.
All in all, we’re not inventing anything when it comes to the “battle” between Dumars and Gores because its evident enough as it is.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
4 years since we were a non playoff team. 4. And everyone here acts like we are the Clippers or something. I understand you though.
How is that foot in mouth? We’re worse than the clippers. They won more games than we did last season. They have a better roster. WTF?
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
The Clippers also have an outrageous number of blocks and dunks, whereas we do not.
by garrettelliott on Jul 22, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
(although we were SO CLOSE to having them brought to us)
by garrettelliott on Jul 22, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Do you understand the meaning of time?
by Shinons* on Jul 22, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
we just got more rings?
damn. wasn’t paying attention. I thought that happened a while ago.
We're actually much worse than the Clippers
Which is why, to your point, being only 4 years removed from the playoffs and being as bad as we are is even more depressing than a team like the Clippers who have historically been sorely terrible mainly due to a cheap racist bigot of an owner, and less due to ineptitude at the management level.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I really shouldn't need to explain this
But the reason Mike (and myself, for that matter) would prefer to see Dumars step down is because we don’t think he gives the Pistons the best opportunity at quickly returning to a point of contention. You’re equating dissatisfaction in his job performance with a lack of respect for him as a person, and that connection just isn’t there. While we respect what he has accomplished, it’s not unfair or impractical to question whether or not Dumars deserves to retain his job moving forward.
As for the portrayal of a battle of wills between Gores and Dumars, it was reported the other day that Dumars wanted Woodson and Gores wanted Frank. Since it appears Frank is the choice, which would lead one to the conclusion that Gores’ arrival has affected the decision-making process within the front office. Since Dumars is here to stay, at least for the time being, those of us who no longer want to see Dumars making unchecked decisions are pleased that Gores is challenging him.
Now you're trying to twist it
But the reason Mike (and myself, for that matter) would prefer to see Dumars step down is because we don’t think he gives the Pistons the best opportunity at quickly returning to a point of contention.
Hmm that sounds like you want him to fail..Like I been saying this whole time.
Actually, that’s you trying to twist it. He never said he wants him to fail, he said he wants him to step down because he’s not currently the right guy to get us back to winning.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
Everything Joe D does it’s bash bash bash around here. I just have the time to call you dudes on it today.. It’s bullshit. Anyways It’s dinner time. Maybe I will poke my beak in one day soon. Just letting you all know that I am a true blue Pistons fan and will not jump ship screaming at the first sign of water on board. Take care all I am watching you!!
None of us have ever jumped ship...in fact, quite the opposite
I live in Seattle and have not been within the reach of Fox Sports Detroit since 2006. I’ve purchased myself NBA league pass every year and can confidently say I’ve seen 75+ games per season every year for the past 5 years. I’ve also watched every single summer league game thats been available, spent countless hours digging into the stats of players less supported and fan favorites alike.
In short, you don’t know me, nor do you know anyone else on this board. So don’t go shooting your mouth about jumping ship screaming.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 22, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Everything Joe D does it’s bash bash bash around here.
Everything Dumars has done over the past 3-4 years is worthy of bashing. That doesn’t mean we don’t respect Dumars’ accomplishments as both a player and GM, but 3-4 years of bad decisions would get anyone fired in almost any situation.
By the way, this isn’t the first sign water on board. Right now, we’re parked at the bottom of the ocean right next to the Titanic, and are hoping our new billionaire owner will be able to salvage us from there.
Terrence J. is feeling a bit fishy...
by Trout Jefferson on Jul 22, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, the best way to put it is this:
Joe Dumars isn’t Joe Dumars anymore. Everything that made Dumars what he was when he was a player and the early part of his days as GM, he no longer follows. Dumars was hard-working, defensive-minded, and intelligent. He was a high character guy (hell, the award for sportsmanship is named after him).
Now, look at our roster? Where are the hard-workers? Where are the defense minded players? The high character guys? Hell, even the intelligence? All the things that made Dumars are gone now. I’d say current Dumars barely qualifies as Dumars anymore, other than his love for shrimp poppers.
Terrence J. is feeling a bit fishy...
by Trout Jefferson on Jul 22, 2011 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm Not Convinced Of That
But the meter is definitely running on him again, now.
If you can’t out GM Dave Checketts, you deserve to be fired, just sayin’.
In the land of milk and honey you must put them on the table...
by V. on Jul 25, 2011 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
YEAH WHAT HE SAID!
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 22, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I remember what Joe D is to the city of Detroit..First as a player,now as a GM..To just disrespect that is nuts to me.
At some point, Joe D began to disrespect himself. This years team is a giant flaming bag of dookie on his legacy, and is the exact opposite of the character, tough defense, and winning that he represented. Given that he put this together, he signed each and every “low character” guy to their big contracts, how can you not consider the fact that he is past his prime?
…or, how about you provide some reasons for your unyielding faith that don’t involve pretending like the past 7 years never happened?
Welcome... to the Wallace-hood
Just putting this into the universe
I don’t respect Joe Dumars. I don’t mean that critically, I just don’t know the man.
And actually, I would like to see him fail this year, but it’s nothing personal. I want to see him fail this year because I think Gores has the balls to fire him if he does, and I think Dumars and the Pistons parting ways is the best thing for the franchise long term.
So again, I don’t respect Joe Dumars, and I hope he fails this year.
Did you ever respect him? If so, can you pinpoint where you lost respect for him?
Welcome... to the Wallace-hood
I don’t respect Joe Dumars the man because I don’t know Joe Dumars the man.
As a player, I appreciate what he contributed. As a GM, I appreciate what he build in the early decade.
But from a personal standpoint, I don’t think we Pistons fans know much about Dumars the man.
I see your point...
I just have a hard time believing that his off the court character is so much different that it does bear having non-opinion on him.
With that said I’m basically just standing back and making idle judgement about a person without any true knowledge of them.
I... can't really understand this logic.
If Dumars fails, the team fails. Right now, they are tied at the hip and any action that Dumars does or does not take has a direct affect on the team.
I understand the concept of “I have no confidence in Dumars and don’t believe he can do the job anymore.” That’s a given. I’m right there with you on that one. But “I have no confidence in Dumars and don’t believe he can do the job anymore. I hope he proves me right.” Seems both spiteful and counter-productive. i’d rather he prove me wrong. I’d rather he go out this summer and make a series of brilliant moves. I’d rather he restore my confidence in him. I want him to succeed because that means the team is succeeding. Do I have any confidence it’ll happen? God no. But I can still hope.
Terrence J. is feeling a bit fishy...
by Trout Jefferson on Jul 24, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
It’s not that I hope he proves me right.
It’s that I think the only way he’ll get replaced is if he doesn’t right the ship this season.
Does that make any more sense?
That's completely fair, but that isn't what you initially said.
There’s a difference between saying “I believe a bad season from the Pistons will cost Dumars his job” vs. “I hope he fails this year.”
Terrence J. is feeling a bit fishy...
by Trout Jefferson on Jul 25, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, that's what I meant.
Take it or leave it, I guess. I don’t always get it right on the first, rushed go around.
*head nod to Gores*
I’m glad Gores knows his position. Dumars works for him, not the other way around. I believe he knows what he’s doing. He saw what I saw. Between Woodson and Lawrence, he chose the better man for the job. I’m not expecting a huge dramatic improvement this year (and nobody on this board should, either), but I expect him to be one of many pieces guiding this team in the right direction.
Once again, I’m incredibly saddened Laimbeer didn’t get the job. When the NBA2K series allows us to create a coach, I’ll be sure to add him out of spite…or, I’ll add him to my Pistons staff if at all possible.
by The Sledge on Jul 22, 2011 1:45 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
if anyone is interested...
article from pruiti a couple years back about his issues with frank. he calls into question his roster management, ability to communicate with players, developing young players, and offense – all kuester type criticisms. also calls into question his play calling out of timeouts – something kuester was actually very good with.
now
when you’re dealing with a bad roster, like frank did in NJ, or kuester did in detroit, it’s inevitably going to produce criticisms. it’s hard not to search for answers when games are being lost on the regular. i would imagine any coach faces similar criticisms under similar circumstances. what i like is that he gets the most out of his players, like carlisle did. he won games with some of the shittier front courts you can imagine, and his defenses were never terrible. what i don’t like is his bad play calling and maybe questionable offensive strategy, although that one is pretty subjective and fluid from the sounds of it.
I have hope
he’s the first coach we’ve had in ages that’s actually had head coaching experience before, AND had success doing it. All I want to see is progress of some sort.
Go Pistons!
While I know it's useless to respond to the one-without-punctuation
but that belittle’s my side of the discussion. Dumars was fucking brilliant, brilliant from day one until the day after he signed Antonio McDyess. That stretch was arguably better than any other GM in the league, because even the visionaries like RC Buford and others got most of their luck out of the draft. Joe did not. What he did wasn’t just visionary, it was once in a generation, once in a league, once in a sport. He did what no other GM has ever done, he built a winner out of nothing, he built a champion without the luck of a lottery pick. The man was as fucking great as will ever be.
Sadly, the man that has presided over this team since the day following the McDyess signing is one of the worst GMs in league history. If Joe was hired on the day the team celebrated the championship of 2004, he would have been fired long, long ago. Because post-2004 Joe Dumars is an absolute disaster.
Point being. Wait, I agree with you. Weird.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
by Mike Payne on Jul 23, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Great points. However he did have lottery picks on his team, he just didn’t pick them. Billups 3rd, Rip 7th, and Sheed 4th in their respective drafts. I want so bad to call it all luck. It was genius at the time, but he’s done nothing since then to make you think he’s capable of repeating such a feat. If anything his GM career looks like he’s throwing shit at a wall hoping some will stick. It’s impossible to make an indefensible argument that he’s made a single well thought out decision with a reasonable vision in mind of what the outcome would be.
I did like him much better when he was a shrewd frugal GM, not the GM that throws mind numbing contracts and extensions at players like Rip, Tay, Gordon, and CV. The GM that knew his limits with Wallace and Okur, or that played hardball with Billups. Having said that I have to question even more his evaluation of players and what he deems to be players responsible for wins. Billups and Wallace were the two players he should have never let get away, and they happen to be the two players he let hit free agency. Not even going to go into the Billups trade, or the Afflalo trade, or Amir. Basically, I have no idea if Dumars knows what attributes win games.
Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups were luck. Dyess was luck insofar as he stayed healthy in Detroit.
Sheed was a good trade. Memo was a good pick.
Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups were luck
Is this a declarative statement, or something you know to be true without doubt?
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
I believe it’s true. Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups were scrubs before they found their home in Detroit. Nobody was saying, “Oh snap! Joe picked up Ben Wallace AND Chauncey Billups?!? Rest of the league, watch out!” Lightning struck, the system worked, the players gelled, the rest is black swan event history.
(hi petey!)
by garrettelliott on Jul 23, 2011 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't really think that's fair to Dumars
He saw something in each of those players and made the necessary moves to acquire them for their actual value if not below that value.
Luck is involved in any GM’s success and the same could go for the coach. Frank’s initial success was based on the luck of having a solid team to start with and the close to his time in new jersey was based on the lack of control (or unluckiness) of the situation in New Jersey.
In short, Dumars made an effort to bring in 3 guys who were generally unwanted but each had great potential. I mean I wish I could make the argument that the stats told a clear story and that is what drove Dumars to acquiring them but that’s simply not true since we all know that the only stats JoD tracks is krispy kremes eaten per hour.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Did he really see something in them? Was there any quantifiable data these hunches were based on, or was it just gut instinct? Or was it neither and we just happened to need a PG and had the MLE to spend and Billups was the best available at the price? Were we a coin flip away from John Amaechi?
I’m not trying to diminish what Dumars did so much as I am looking for evidence that concludes if the man can be trusted to run this franchise. I don’t know if just saying he won a championship is good enough.
by mcflies on Jul 24, 2011 6:22 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I would agree with your sentiment.
Dumars likely got anything he could from Orlando for giving them Grant Hill and Chauncey was luck. Dumars grabbed a point guard, albeit a top-5 draft pick, because he needed to fill that position. They both turned out to be franchise players.
I’m not necessarily taking anything away from Dumars for those moves. It’s just that, in hindsight, they’ve worked out much better than he, or anyone, expected.
Luck or skill, he is not going to replicate that team ever again
At that time Dumars was an unknown and GMs thought they were screwing the newbie. There is no longer an element of surprise, in fact other teams look to the Pistons scouting to know who to target. There’s not much chance of hitting a jackpot, taking the lump of coal and forming a diamond. No team will let Dumars sneak out with a good player, and will probably raise the bidding price on a player that we’re interested in just to keep from looking bad for letting him go for nothing. Like his playing career, he got to the top quick, and has been honorably mediocre ever since.
Welcome... to the Wallace-hood
Ben's defensive rating was pretty damn good even when he was getting limited minutes in Orlando
and billups at least had a reputation for being a solid 3 PT shooter who could overpower smaller point guards with his size and strength.
I certainly don’t remember back on those acquisitions and think, “we were so lucky to get those guys” but in hindsight we obviously were. My sentiment is that Dumars doesn’t generally evaluate by stats anyways so he “saw something in them” in the same way that he “saw something in Walter Sharpe.” Whether you’re in the camp of “even a broken clock is right twice a day” or the camp of “Dumars truly saw that intangible that would result in a team-changing roster” is up to you. I don’t think any of us can confidently say one way or the other though.
while all of the player’s that Mike mentions above are no longer on our team, all of them are solid talents that Dumars opted to draft.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
just epinion.
Dumars doesn’t use stats, and it’s hard to convince me his gut just got those players right while getting guys like CV and BG completely wrong.
I think he got lucky that Billups and Wallace became the players they became. That doesn’t detract from them being brilliant signings, just qualifies it a bit for me.
Anyway, I can’t prove any of that. It’s just what I think. I’m not going to live or die by it, but unless he demonstrates otherwise, I think the likeliest explanation is that he got really lucky in the early part of the decade.
I don't think it's an unfair assumption
It seems to me that he just eyeballs players. Obviously he saw something in both Chauncey and Ben’s game, and just looking at them, there appeared to be something to Gordon and Charlie V’s game as well.
At a glance, Villanueva looked like he just needed more playing time, and Gordon had proven himself to be a very skilled volume shooter. Granted, I’m sure hard statistics would show that the two of them are quality role players, and nothing further.
The issue I have is how Joe D uses his gut to decide how to pay players. He told himself Gordon and Villanueva could be stars, and paid them star money instead of the role player money they deserved.
by BoogieWoogie M.D. on Jul 25, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn’t there a post a while back saying we were paying exactly what we should be paying (or even slightly less) for Charlie V?
by garrettelliott on Jul 25, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought CV was a great signing at the time
But BG still perplexes me
Without a doubt, squats are a cure for everything.
by bearded thundar on Jul 25, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, there was talk that Villaneuva was going to turn into the poor man’s Chris Bosh. I loved the Villaneuva signing, but was lukewarm on the Ben Gordon signing.
WORD PLAY
hollywoodsloce.tumblr.com
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 26, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
That would actually be a great way to heckle Bosh
“Hey Chris… You’re nothing more than a rich man’s Chalie Villanueva!!!”
That would have to hurt.
My federal building is way cooler than your federal building.
by bugman222 on Jul 26, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
You know he’d start crying.
WORD PLAY
hollywoodsloce.tumblr.com
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 27, 2011 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Charlie Villanueva would challenge him to a boxing match that would never happen.
WORD PLAY
hollywoodsloce.tumblr.com
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 27, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, my mistake then. Given his production and playstyle I’m just having a difficult time justifying giving him ANY amount of money.
by BoogieWoogie M.D. on Jul 26, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
he is also a "cancer" to his team and immature
by jadedeed2327 on Jul 29, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Charlie Villaneuva isn’t a cancer at all. He was just born with a lack of balls. Or, to quote Peter Venkman, “He has no dick.”
WORD PLAY
hollywoodsloce.tumblr.com
by Biz Markie Moon on Aug 2, 2011 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions
We're attributing his good moves to luck now?
Does that mean we can attribute the bad moves to bad luck now? Dumars isn’t a bad GM, he’s just been unlucky the past 3-4 years!
Terrence J. is feeling a bit fishy...
by Trout Jefferson on Jul 24, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
sounds a lot better to me.
I’m back on the Dumars bandwagon. Jadeed was so right!
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I think there’s an element of truth to this, as well. Everyone is so determined to point out objective statistics saying Dumars should be fired, but I think just as much luck went into his good moves as his bad ones. Most people predicted the Iverson trade would work out poorly, but what if it didn’t? What if Iverson came alive and scored 25 ppg like he did the previous season and ignited the fans in Detroit with his hard work? What if Amir played like he’s playing now instead of like he did with us? What if Curry wasn’t such a bumbling knucklehead? Who knew guys would get injured so often? Basketball is as much about luck as anything else, IME. Joe has made good moves and bad moves. He’s gambled and won a few times, and he’s gambled and lost a few times. Either way, it could have turned out differently than it did. It sucks that we’re in the position we are now, but maybe it wouldn’t look so bad if Ben Gordon was actually playing like Ben Gordon and we were able to get rid of Rip and Tay? Now I’m just rambling, but I think there’s too much grey to really sway my opinion in either direction. I’m on board with letting Joe try to right the ship and we’ll see what happens from there.
by garrettelliott on Jul 24, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I can agree with this to an extent, because there’s a difference between making smart bets that don’t work out due to horrific luck and betting the rent money on 700:1 horse that doesn’t win. Joe Dumars has been betting rent money on losing horses because he won when he made some smart bets.
WORD PLAY
hollywoodsloce.tumblr.com
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 24, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Luck
If the 50 win seasons were as much good luck as the 30 win seasons were bad luck then Joe Dumars is looking more and more like a .500 GM which gets you exactly nowhere in the NBA. Dumars has to show the ability to deconstruct a team and rebuild and so far he is an expensive and ugly 0-1. He dismantled an expensive and old conference finals team and replaced it with an expensive and old lottery team. That’s not good.
This..
I think there’s an element of truth to this, as well. Everyone is so determined to point out objective statistics saying Dumars should be fired, but I think just as much luck went into his good moves as his bad ones. Most people predicted the Iverson trade would work out poorly, but what if it didn’t? What if Iverson came alive and scored 25 ppg like he did the previous season and ignited the fans in Detroit with his hard work? What if Amir played like he’s playing now instead of like he did with us? What if Curry wasn’t such a bumbling knucklehead? Who knew guys would get injured so often? Basketball is as much about luck as anything else, IME. Joe has made good moves and bad moves. He’s gambled and won a few times, and he’s gambled and lost a few times. Either way, it could have turned out differently than it did. It sucks that we’re in the position we are now, but maybe it wouldn’t look so bad if Ben Gordon was actually playing like Ben Gordon and we were able to get rid of Rip and Tay? Now I’m just rambling, but I think there’s too much grey to really sway my opinion in either direction. I’m on board with letting Joe try to right the ship and we’ll see what happens from there.
Is pretty much what I have been saying all along. But I get posted pics of furry critters and retarded people,along with arguments. But I love you guys anyways, and I still think this is one of the best Detroit Pistons blogs.
Also,thanks a million garrettelliott,you explained this perfectly in my “epinion”. Much better then I could have.
But I love you guys anyways, and I still think this is one of the best Detroit Pistons blogs.
We’re no Motown String Music, but we try.
by Shinons* on Jul 25, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yes, I think so.
The fact that he chooses to run the franchise based on his gut, not any type of objective data, means that he’s going to guess right sometimes and guess wrong sometimes.
So yeah, Dumars has been unlucky. The real problem isn’t that he’s been unlucky but rather that he uses a decision making process that requires him to depend on (mostly) luck in the first place.
Dude..
Dumars was fucking brilliant, brilliant from day one until the day after he signed Antonio McDyess. That stretch was arguably better than any other GM in the league, because even the visionaries like RC Buford and others got most of their luck out of the draft. Joe did not. What he did wasn’t just visionary, it was once in a generation, once in a league, once in a sport. He did what no other GM has ever done, he built a winner out of nothing, he built a champion without the luck of a lottery pick. The man was as fucking great as will ever be.
Sadly, the man that has presided over this team since the day following the McDyess signing is one of the worst GMs in league history. If Joe was hired on the day the team celebrated the championship of 2004, he would have been fired long, long ago. Because post-2004 Joe Dumars is an absolute disaster.
Point being. Wait, I agree with you. Weird.
You are starting to grow on me..Well stated. But all I ask is for you to please give him more time to get the team back to greatness. Give him 6-8 yrs of no production at least before you want him gone. Remember that brilliant is only brilliant if shit works out well. It’s all a risk and can go either way,but you gotta give him time.
But all I ask is for you to please give him more time to get the team back to greatness.
I’m not a masochist, Roco, so no. I have given him plenty of time. When he made those absolute shit signings of Villanueva and Gordon and Hamilton, I said I would give him until the trade deadline the following season to work things out. I gave him that much time, then wrote a really long piece about how the time had passed on Joe for me. I immediately saw those moves as bad moves, moves that we’d be stuck with for years and years and years, all the while falling into the abyss of the league. These were un-Dumars moves, and I’m not waiting another 6-8 years for this guy to continue to fuck up. It has been more than six years since the last championship, and the guy at the helm today has shown no resemblance to the guy that built that champion. I’m done waiting for him to get it right. I’ve been done for years.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
by Mike Payne on Jul 25, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It has been more than six years since the last championship
But only 3-4 years since our team has been a playoff threat. So what I am saying is give the man 2-3 more seasons to at least show that we are on the right track again. Look I agree that the Villanueva and Gordon deals were awful. I agree that trading away one of the top 5 PGs at that time was idiotic,but I still have faith and I am hoping you will too. 2-3 more years, and if he cannot get shit together then you will not get another argument from Roco. But keep in mind what he has to go through. Nobody (That matters) wants to come to Detroit to live man. That makes it harder to sign FA as it is so you are forced to pay a bit more just to be taken seriously. His drafting seems to be improving a bit,so just give it some time brother..2-3 years maybe 4 tops.
But keep in mind what he has to go through. Nobody (That matters) wants to come to Detroit to live man. That makes it harder to sign FA as it is so you are forced to pay a bit more just to be taken seriously.
This is a cop-out, and it points to a bad strategy— a reliance upon free agency to construct a winning core. In my article An Open Letter to Tom Gores: 10 Keys for Redeeming the Detroit Dream, I talked about precisely this in one of those ten points:
Number Six: Build Through Trades and the Draft, Not Free Agency
When was the last time a major free agent purchase yielded a championship? Not since I’ve been a fan, to say the least. While this trend may change with the signing of LeBron James and Chris Bosh in Miami, winning teams have historically been constructed through the draft and trades. When looking at the Pistons themselves, Joe Dumars has succeeded only when he’s spent the Mid Level Exception or less, and failed every time he’s spent a penny more.
Loyal, existing players should be given fair contracts based upon future returns in performance. When spending on free agents, teams bid against other teams and generally reach far above the target player’s return value. Chris Bosh’s performance for the Miami Heat is one prime example, Ben Gordon’s in Detroit is yet another. Spend to keep, not to acquire, as the best players are found in trades and the draft. Free agent signings are a tool to fill holes, not craft foundations.
And back to what you said:
So what I am saying is give the man 2-3 more seasons to at least show that we are on the right track again.
Sorry Roco, I’ve already given him 2-3 seasons. For now, I’m not planning on re-upping my subscription to stupidity. Thanks though.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
Were any of the recs for MP's post a bit upthread for "belittle's"
’Cause that superfluous apostrophe deserves a rec.
Stuckey or Hamilton has to be Foster’s dissenter, in my mind.
For Foster to have a relationship with the player and get a quote like that, the person was probably here for at least a couple years, and must expect to be here at least for a little while to see Frank try to win the players over.
Of the notable practice skippers and malcontents from last year (Hamilton, Prince, Stuckey, McGrady, Wilcox, CV) only Hamilton and CV are under contract for next year with the Pistons, but Stuckey does have his qualifying offer. There’s no reason to expect any of the others to ever wear the Pistons uni again.
My impression has always been that CV talks the party line and is all about the team, even if he doesn’t contribute much on the court. He doesn’t strike me as dumb or entitled enough to make that kind of comment. Stuckey, on the other hand, definitely seems like he could have been poisoned by the other vets into thinking the coach will have to win him over. Likewise, Hamilton is probably bitter enough after the last three years of being jerked around by coaches that he’d think it’s time that they catered to him.
Just my two cents.
I don't think Stuckey would pull that shit going into a potential contract negotiation
My money is solely on Hamilton. And if not Hamilton, I wouldn’t even be surprised if it was Tayshaun regardless of the fact that he’s probably gone. I’d also even throw Gordon into the mix if only because he’s displayed almost no discontent for this team despite arguably being the one who should have the most to gripe about (being signed to come in as the starting SG and then having your GM and coaches constnatly play you behind someone as selfish as Rip has got to wear on a guy.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
You know, I might really hate this place
if I didn’t love you all so very much.
by TDP on Jul 23, 2011 7:15 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
L. FRANK? NOOOoo

oh fuck it alright c’mere little guy let’s win some games
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
It’s been “24-36 hours” since the initial report.
Why is the hire not official yet? Just curious.
Now your thoughts.
Can they hire coaches
during the lockout?
by Taiwanese Tora on Jul 23, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
definitely.
My guess is that they’re in contract negotiations. If I’m Frank, I’m demanding 4 years minimum. Reality is, even though Frank is young, he wants to safely mitigate the risk of having another firing on his resume. Even with the success he had in New Jersey (setting the record for most consecutive wins to start his career vs. setting the record for most consecutive losses to end his tenure), if he doesn’t succeed with the Pistons, it could result in another round of assistant coaching where the pay is far less than a head coach.
If its Gores negotiating, my guess is they try and settle on 3 years, 4th year as a team option but either way Frank needs a contract that shows a commitment to a long-term solution from this franchise.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
This is going to be good
Frank is a smart guy, he’s got a chip on his shoulder, and he probably knows how to read a spreadsheet. It’s hard to imagine him cracking the whip, but hopefully someone in the front office will do all the heavy lifting ahead of time.
Welcome... to the Wallace-hood
Frank should come in on day 1 and say, “Listen here, assholes. I coached Vince Carter — VINCE CARTER!!!!! — so don’t think you can pull any shit on me. Let’s play hard and win some games.”
by garrettelliott on Jul 23, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and Kevin Garnett
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 23, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
and Paul Pierce
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 23, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
and Glen Big Baby Davis
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 23, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
and Cliff Robinson
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 23, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
and Brian Scalabrine
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 23, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
and Eddie House
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 23, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I was a huge proponent of signing Pooter over Billups...funny how that turned out.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jul 24, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He deserves a chance
and if this move is a signifier that Gores is laying down the law then I am all for it. Maybe he’ll get Dumars to get back to pre-2004 form…Winning definitely comes from top down. I’m pumped to see how things will work out this season (if there is one)
I smell a troll
You wanna know why it's always hot at the Palace of Aubrun Hills?
Because there aren’t enough fan. #sneakylaugh
Aubrun Hills
Reminds me of Tom Goes to the Mayor.
Brunzing.
Rats off to yaaaa!
That is all.
#hashtag
Tavren is my middle name. No lie.
WORD PLAY
hollywoodsloce.tumblr.com
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 24, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't believe it at first...
but then he whipped out his drivers license and I was all like “My God.”
Lowest risk
Not a bad choice but he needs to come in quietly and pay his dues…
by CoachPatAnderson on Jul 24, 2011 12:18 PM EDT reply actions
the dark horse
in all of this is this Checkitts dude…just read the ESPN article and seems he’s deep into this…personally i like that someone is making plays that joe d might not make. please sweet baby jesus i hope this is followed by a cleaning of house
I smell a troll
Rec this if Roco's or redwing(Whatever the numeral is) argument is getting old,
we all know that DBB is the bomb so give the fuck up.
by madpoopz on Jul 25, 2011 2:44 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
you mean shipoopi?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SATuCPVO8x4
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I’d rather go for Adleman if he’s looking to coach still, as his recent interview with the Bucks indicates. Frank elicits a “meh” from me when I think of who we’re looking to hire.
agreed
i’m okay with Frank, but would have preferred Adelman or Laimbeer.
That's the double-truth, Ruth.
Big Adelman fan
Really loved what he did with the Kings (They were my favorite team in 2002). Liked what he did with the Rockets. I very much doubt we would’ve been able to bring him here, though. I would’ve been on my feet cheering if he came here.
I’ve said that Adelman has been the most underrated coach in the game for quite some time.
WORD PLAY
hollywoodsloce.tumblr.com
by Biz Markie Moon on Jul 25, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
So... it's been at least 24-36 hours.
Is this shizzle going to happen for rizzle, or what?!
by TDP on Jul 28, 2011 12:45 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs

by 





















