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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Pistons get Parsoned, fall to Houston 97-80

The Pistons lost another game in lopsided fashion, falling to the Houston Rockets 97-80 on Tuesday. That should surprise absoultely nobody. And sadly it won't surprise you how they lost -- poor, lazy passes that become turnovers, giving up too many rebounds, giving up too many points in the paint, taking bad shots at the absolute worst time.

What is surprising is that the Pistons were able to stay mostly competitive even though Greg Monroe struggled mightily and only ended up with 4 points in 35 minutes. At the half Monroe had zero points on 0-3 shooting. He didn't score his first points until there was 10:20 to go in the game. He also struggled defending Samuel Dalembert, who was able to get great post position for some easy baskets and tip ins. Dalembert finished with 12 rebounds and a team-high 14 points to pace the Rockets.

Coach Lawrence Frank decided to remake the starting lineup as he looks for better defense and little bit of a spark, swapping Ben Wallace for Jonas Jerebko at power forward. Frank said he wanted better defense to start games and wanted to harness Jerebko's energy off the bench. Makes sense.

Unfortunately, although Wallace was able to provide moments of vintage Big Ben D, the Pistons gave up way too many offensive rebounds and turned Wallace's blocks and forced misses into second-chance points. In the end the Pistons were outrebounded 42 to 35, but the differential is padded by some garbage time minutes that helped Detroit close the gap.

But enough about the negatives, right? A loss is really just one step closer to a great draft pick in a deep draft.

Star-divide

While Monroe struggled to score, he was able to be effective in other ways, grabbing 11 rebounds and dishing out 6 assists. It was not a good game for Monroe by any stretch, but if the low-end of the Moose effectiveness scale includes double-digit rebounds and a team high in assists, i'll take it.

Rookie Brandon Knight also had his hands full, matching up with Kyle Lowry. Lowry is one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA and also happens to be having a breakout year on the offensive end. Knight, to put it mildly, struggled. He still plays like the game is going 1,000 miles per hour, especially when he is asked to initiate the offense. Knight commited six turnovers to go with four assists, but he also showed flashes of why the organizaiton and fans are so excited about him. He scord 15 points, but got them in a different way than his usual perimeter shooting. Knight made a concious effort to get into the lane and he was able to get some easy and not so easy points in the paint.

While the Pistons gave up way too many points in the paint (47), they were able to attack on their own end and finished the night with 42 points in the paint themselves.

Also having a strong game was Ben Gordon. Gordon scored 18 points and was especially aggresive early. He blocked two shots, had three steals and played pesky defense all night. Tayshaun Prince led all scorers with 20 points, including buzzer beaters to end the second and third quarters.

Last, and certainly not least, was Rodney Stuckey. I'm not sure if the Pistons envision him as a scorer off the bench or a starting two-guard long term, but tonight he played his bench role perfectly. He looked to score when the option presented itself and also helped settle down the offense some when Knight was getting rattled. Stuckey scored 16 points on 6-11 shooting, including 2 of 4 from 3-point land, and was the only Pistons player with a positive +/- differential.

But in the end it is the same problems that continue to plague Detroit, and it puts Frank in a tough spot. The Pistons are playing lazy and they are playing sloppy. They are also relying on a rookie at point guard and a sophomore at center, who also happens to get the most offensive touches. Following the dreadful John Kuester years, the players have developed a losing culture and some lackadaisical habits. Frank has to thread the needle of making everyone accountable for their mistakes while also keeping harmony within the locker room, and helping his young players learn and get better.

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rec'd and agreed 100%

I still don’t think Kuester was that bad at the basketball parts of coaching. Better than Curry, and so far, not any worse than Frank.

"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."

@brgulker

by brgulker on Jan 18, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

So far this year, the scores haven’t been close enough for Frank to get repeatedly coached out of games like Kuester was last season.

by Mike Payne on Jan 18, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

and to think

nobody has even walked out of practice, thrown a team-wide boycott, refused to enter a game, or threw a hissy fit.

i guess as long we have a team of model citizens sucking harder is more acceptable to people, or something.

by mcflies on Jan 18, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

percocet! yes please!

follow me on twitter: @danieldresden

by dandresden on Jan 19, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Alright motherfucker

I’ll squirrel some away and give them to you at the Blowout ’12. Deal?

That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice

Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.

by Skylar on Jan 19, 2012 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

The appearance's are definitely more in favor of Frank being the better coach.

he’s definitely more articulate (outside of the pregnancy comparison). He seems to have a better handle on the team as a whole. His lineups don’t suck and we don’t see much Austin Daye.

It’s too early to be saying he’s a better coach in general because it’s still a pretty new season. But from what we can see that he can be graded on I’d have to say that Frank has been a pretty good coach thus far.

by madpoopz on Jan 18, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Roster was arguably better under Q

Players Q had available LF hasn’t (in one case, so far): Rip, Wilcox, T-Mac, and (so far), CV.

Players LF has available Q didn’t: Knight, Jonas, Damien Wilkens [I’m not counting Macklin, at least not yet, since he’s hardly played].

Of course in terms of long term development, you would want Knight and Jonas over anyone on Q’s list, but in terms of “let’s win now,” Q’s list was almost certainly stronger.

In a way, this makes me realize that CV’s absence really is making us worse. Even despite the whole “can’t rebound or play defense” things.

by Toledo Joe on Jan 18, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

His offense will be nice off the bench.

and I still can’t understand why Wilcox wasn’t kept around. He honestly could have started for this current team and JJ could have played more consistently in position as Tay’s backup while logging extra minutes as a PF. Wilcox honestly made matchups for this team in the frontcourt a lot more manageable.

But back to what I was saying, I’m not as hard on CV as most people around here. For the amount he makes he should be doing more, but it’s kinda pointless to be worrying about his money at this point unless it’s in regards to a trade. As long as Gordon starts he’s our strongest scoring threat off the bench right now. As long as our bench consists of Stuckey, Bynum, Wilkins, Max, and Big Ben we are gonna get killed for stretches at a time offensively. CV will help round that out because even though he likes to shoot 3’s, he is a scoring threat from all over.

But if we had just kept Wilcox, things would look better.

by madpoopz on Jan 18, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t see why Wilcox would want to come back to Detroit. Even paying for a washed up Boston team has gotta be better than this for him … right?

"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."

@brgulker

by brgulker on Jan 18, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

We coulda given him some of Tayshauns money...

*sobs*and let JJ start at SF.

*sobsmore*and signed somebody else who gives us Tay’s production for cheaper as a backup SF. (because I do not like Daye)

by madpoopz on Jan 18, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Wilcox has the same production every year. For the first 79 games he has nothing. Then he plays hard for 3 games. This is so people like you think “Why don’t we resign him.” We don’t resign him because he’s lazier than basking walrus.

Charlie V’s contract is not terrible, he’ll be able to add something once he returns.

If we had Wilcox he would be doing the WontCox right about this time. He’s worse than worthless.

by bonerici on Jan 18, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

The advantage to Wilcox isn't that's he's a great, or even consistently really good, center

It’s that having him (or someone like him) on the roster not only is another big man on a roster that desparately needs them, and moreover it allows other folks, notably JJ, to play more often in a position they are better at playing.

by Toledo Joe on Jan 18, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly. I thought Wilcox was pretty solid for the majority of last season. Yes, he seems to be a contract year guy. But he’s a better fit than Charlie Villanueva at a fraction of the cost (and probably Max too for that matter).

"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."

@brgulker

by brgulker on Jan 18, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

the only major difference in minute allocation

between productive and non-productive minutes is that Knight has replaced all of Mcgrady’s and some of Stuckey’s minutes from last season.

CV sucks. Jerebko has basically replaced Wilcox, and Maxiell and Monroe are both better than last season so CV’s absence shouldn’t be a factor in this sucktitude whatsoever.

Prince, Daye, Gordon, Wilkins, and Knight suck, and Stuckey is playing less. Last season Stuckey played more and T-Mac was here – so we at least got some productive minutes from the back 3 positions – this year we’ve gotten very few if any productive minutes from those positions.

by mcflies on Jan 18, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Stuckey’s been hurt. He’ll make a slight difference when he’s healthy, and Tay is bound to get at least a little better.

But on the whole, I agree that this roster isn’t as good as last season’s… which is incredible.

"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."

@brgulker

by brgulker on Jan 18, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

what i'm trying to say

is the backcourt is one million times worse than the frontcourt, and that the frontcourt is actually better this season than last season even though it’s still not good enough. no sugarcoat, but we might be fielding the worst starting backcourt in the history of the NBA, or at least it can’t be far off.

by mcflies on Jan 18, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

If Knight and Gordon remain the starters, and if they don’t improve, they’ll be negative with respect to Win Shares and Wins Produced. Same for Bynum. Stuckey’s positive production won’t be close to overcoming that.

So yeah, that could be possible, which is scary.

"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."

@brgulker

by brgulker on Jan 18, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Q had Jonas for his first year. Arguably a better Jonas because he wasn’t coming off of an injury.

by JoeDip on Jan 18, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't fault Frank at all for the record

It’s a competitive league and he has the least to compete with. Add to that a shortened training camp in his first year and hardly any practice time, and a tougher-than-most early schedule. They showed better effort and chemistry than I expected so far and most young guys seem to be improving. That’s all I could ask for.
Well that and Anthony Davis.

Anybody can happen!

by Tom Y. on Jan 18, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope, no one said that

Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand - Kurt Vonnegut

by Reno09 on Jan 18, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Following the dreadful John Kuester years, the players have developed a losing culture and some lackadaisical habits.

by Gabe F-B on Jan 18, 2012 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Kuester

I don’t blame Kuester for the losing culture, I am just saying that the Kuester years were a failure. And in the aftermath of that failure the players picked up bad habits and a losing culture was established.

I think even more alarming than the lack of size and skill on the roster right now, the Pistons are doing dumb, lazy things that are contributing to them being continuously blown out. How Lawrence Frank manages that situation will be very difficult, but it is important that he gets it right.

by Sean_Corp on Jan 17, 2012 11:07 PM EST reply actions  

Biyombo watch 2012: 11 points, 10 rebounds, 4 blocks against the Magic.

by garrettelliott on Jan 17, 2012 11:20 PM EST reply actions  

On 5-5 shooting and in 21 minutes

Anybody can happen!

by Tom Y. on Jan 18, 2012 12:01 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Impossible.

He’s a total bust.

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

Love Beer? Me too! http://jimbobsbeerblog.wordpress.com/
Follow me on twitter: #JimBobsBeerBlog

by The Boourns on Jan 18, 2012 3:06 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It's so beautiful!

sniff

Welcome... to the Wallace-hood

by tads on Jan 18, 2012 8:30 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Starting Ben

I think this move is pretty much an admission that JJ is not a PF. I was hoping he could do a good job there, and he has had a few great games, but he mostly seems to be outmatched in the paint. The only upside to this season so far is that Monroe and Knight are getting plenty of minutes and we’re going to have a good shot at a high lottery pick.

by revken on Jan 17, 2012 11:20 PM EST reply actions  

I think it has more to do with the fact Houston leads the league in bebounds

and Frank didn’t want to be outmatched from the start. I don’t think its feasible to start Wallace game after game. It comes down to a lack of options.
in other news there were plenty of blocks, dunks, and rebounds in a certain college basketball game thus evening.

by mcflies on Jan 18, 2012 12:01 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

JJ is a pretty good rebounder though.

even out of position. I don’t know if at this point in his career if Wallace is still a better rebounder than JJ.

by madpoopz on Jan 18, 2012 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Wallace has a 14.6% rebound rate

Jerebko has a 12.8% rebound rate. I’d consider that good for a SF, but probably below average to average for a PF

by mcflies on Jan 18, 2012 12:23 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

What I wonder is whether its more to prove a point to JoD to fucking do something about the PF position

Maxiell is not a starting PF. CV has a sore ankle that according to him, he just woke up one day and it was hurting. Monroe is a PF playing C so realistically we have 0 PFs that should be starting on any team.

JJ can definitely get points off the bench, especially if he’s coming in with Stuckey. Between the two of them as our 6th/7th men their salaries don’t represent a huge investment ($12M a year for the next 3). So they bank on tanking this season, getting Davis, having Davis/Monroe become the greatest frontcourt since ever, and Knight progressing into a triple threat point guard.

Silver lining gentlemen, silver lining. We already have our super sub bench set, now we just need a few superstars…

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

Love Beer? Me too! http://jimbobsbeerblog.wordpress.com/
Follow me on twitter: #JimBobsBeerBlog

by The Boourns on Jan 18, 2012 3:13 AM EST up reply actions  

$20 says Chunky Charlie got gout.

by Mike Payne on Jan 18, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

rec’d for “gout havin ass motherfucker”, because I laughed hard.

by Mike Payne on Jan 18, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."

@brgulker

by brgulker on Jan 18, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Moose. What's not to like?

That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice

Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.

by Skylar on Jan 18, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."

@brgulker

by brgulker on Jan 18, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Missed the game

Tonight’s was the first game of the season that I haven’t watched. But contrary to the writeup, possessions, points off turnovers and fast break points were nearly identical. DIfference in the game, Houston shot nearly 50% and the Pistons shot the ball poorly. Or specifically, Monroe and Jerebko shot poorly. I guess that’s going to happen, but it hurts to waste good performances by Stuckey and Gordon and an OK performance by Prince. First time all year that those three players have all contributed in the same game

by gordbrown on Jan 17, 2012 11:53 PM EST reply actions  

Not sure 20 points on 22 shots is an ok performance, along with 3 TO’s to 0 assists. Maybe compared to his recent games…

Anybody can happen!

by Tom Y. on Jan 18, 2012 12:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Beasley would beg to differ

the rest of the team scored 60 points on 61 shots….

by mcflies on Jan 18, 2012 12:08 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Notice

I said OK, which is a step down from good.

by gordbrown on Jan 18, 2012 12:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Recd
He scord 15 points,

We didn't lose the games, we just ran out of time -- Bobby Layne

by detpistons3 on Jan 18, 2012 12:32 AM EST reply actions  

Fire Joe

This is a disgrace, the old piston teams are rolling in their graves no wonder the stands are empty in Detroit. No one is stepping up and saying to the fans stand by sorry for the inconvenience we are under construction. I heard Joe Dumars say at the start that he expects this team to compete for a playoff spot are you f—king kidding me. The pistons got a new form of cancer call Joe Dumars he never selects the best player available GORE picked Knight, Joe would’ve picked a 5’9 center from Battle Creek that can’t score. What are they waiting for get Monroe some help why did you sign Tay and Stucky and mess the cap up worse than it already is. With Gordon and CV taking up 90 mil of that good job Joe Piston fans brace for another 12 yrs of losing.

by tommy38ism on Jan 18, 2012 12:59 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

"5’9 center from Battle Creek"

Actually, I’m 5’10.5" and from Grand Rapids. But yes, I can confirm that last year Dumars contacted me. He said he was looking to get away from the “long, smooth, can really stroke it” paradigm. As a short, awkward white guy with an awful shot, I fit the bill.

by Birdman84 on Jan 18, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Anthony Davis dropped 27 points, 14 boards, and 7 blocks against Arkansas

If losing gets us better odds at him and JOD fired, then more of this please. It sucks in the moment, but it’s for the best long-term. Being bad is better than straight mediocrity.

How's that for a slice of fried gold?

by Thom not Tom Gores on Jan 18, 2012 2:56 AM EST reply actions  

This is by no means an acquittal of Joe, though

He needs to be fired yesterday.

How's that for a slice of fried gold?

by Thom not Tom Gores on Jan 18, 2012 2:57 AM EST up reply actions  

You heard it here first folks...

Tom Gores will represent us at the NBA Draft Lottery and win the 1st overall.

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

Love Beer? Me too! http://jimbobsbeerblog.wordpress.com/
Follow me on twitter: #JimBobsBeerBlog

by The Boourns on Jan 18, 2012 3:17 AM EST reply actions  

I was kind of hoping he would send his illegitimate son.

I wrote a book about time travel. Buy it and/or die. http://www.thetimetravelguide.com

by heWizard on Jan 18, 2012 3:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I was kind of hoping I was his illegitimate son.

by Danny D on Jan 18, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

What, precisely, is the angle at which your head tilts?

by -PS- on Jan 18, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I was kind of hoping he would send a circus bear.

That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice

Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.

by Skylar on Jan 18, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I was kind of hoping he would send a MOOSE.

I wrote a book about time travel. Buy it and/or die. http://www.thetimetravelguide.com

by heWizard on Jan 18, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Houston exposes our roster problem

Frankly, I was surprised the Pistons got close as late as the early 4th quarter.

by Toledo Joe on Jan 18, 2012 8:13 AM EST reply actions  

i've been getting into the habit of reading opposing team's sn pages lately

just to see if other fans recognize how shitty our team is, how godly monroe is, and for the inevitable commentor to point out how pointlessly this team is assembled. one commenter on the houston recap said something to the effect that the rockets seemed to lighten up once they realized how much better they were than the pistons, which is probably true.

by mcflies on Jan 18, 2012 8:31 AM EST up reply actions  

ah...

but our team has still more cheeseburgers per capita than their team. Our victories are sealed.

by madpoopz on Jan 18, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

ouch

"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."

@brgulker

by brgulker on Jan 18, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Don’t you think that the Pistons playing basketball exposes our roster problem?

I wrote a book about time travel. Buy it and/or die. http://www.thetimetravelguide.com

by heWizard on Jan 18, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair point

But even more so against teams with big guys who crash the boards.

by Toledo Joe on Jan 18, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Patrick Patterson

Murdered us last year, too.

I wrote a book about time travel. Buy it and/or die. http://www.thetimetravelguide.com

by heWizard on Jan 18, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Davis has already set the block record

And the season is not even close to being over. I’m ok with these losses, as long as he’s the light at the end of this dark, dark tunnel.

by JWurm on Jan 18, 2012 1:54 PM EST reply actions  

yeah he destroyed it last night...

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

Love Beer? Me too! http://jimbobsbeerblog.wordpress.com/
Follow me on twitter: #JimBobsBeerBlog

by The Boourns on Jan 18, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, he was two away from breaking it last night

And then he went off and got himself seven. That’s just unreal.

by JWurm on Jan 18, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

With ZERO FOULS.

BLOCKS AND WHATEVER THE OPPOSITE OF FOUL TROUBLE IS, BRING THEM TO ME.

I wrote a book about time travel. Buy it and/or die. http://www.thetimetravelguide.com

by heWizard on Jan 18, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't get high on Davis

Pistons ain’t getting him.

Fire Joe Dumars

by Kriz on Jan 18, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

No he can't

He must wallow on his misery and die a slow death

Fire Joe Dumars

by Kriz on Jan 18, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Kriz...you obviously didn't see my factual post...

Tom Gores will tilt the odds in his favor and win the lottery.

Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.

Love Beer? Me too! http://jimbobsbeerblog.wordpress.com/
Follow me on twitter: #JimBobsBeerBlog

by The Boourns on Jan 18, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I want rebounds, dunks, and blocks

but will also consider rebounds, dunks, and biceps

if either of those three criteria can’t be met…i will consider crying

by mcflies on Jan 18, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs


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