Pistons get Parsoned, fall to Houston 97-80
The Pistons lost another game in lopsided fashion, falling to the Houston Rockets 97-80 on Tuesday. That should surprise absoultely nobody. And sadly it won't surprise you how they lost -- poor, lazy passes that become turnovers, giving up too many rebounds, giving up too many points in the paint, taking bad shots at the absolute worst time.
What is surprising is that the Pistons were able to stay mostly competitive even though Greg Monroe struggled mightily and only ended up with 4 points in 35 minutes. At the half Monroe had zero points on 0-3 shooting. He didn't score his first points until there was 10:20 to go in the game. He also struggled defending Samuel Dalembert, who was able to get great post position for some easy baskets and tip ins. Dalembert finished with 12 rebounds and a team-high 14 points to pace the Rockets.
Coach Lawrence Frank decided to remake the starting lineup as he looks for better defense and little bit of a spark, swapping Ben Wallace for Jonas Jerebko at power forward. Frank said he wanted better defense to start games and wanted to harness Jerebko's energy off the bench. Makes sense.
Unfortunately, although Wallace was able to provide moments of vintage Big Ben D, the Pistons gave up way too many offensive rebounds and turned Wallace's blocks and forced misses into second-chance points. In the end the Pistons were outrebounded 42 to 35, but the differential is padded by some garbage time minutes that helped Detroit close the gap.
But enough about the negatives, right? A loss is really just one step closer to a great draft pick in a deep draft.
While Monroe struggled to score, he was able to be effective in other ways, grabbing 11 rebounds and dishing out 6 assists. It was not a good game for Monroe by any stretch, but if the low-end of the Moose effectiveness scale includes double-digit rebounds and a team high in assists, i'll take it.
Rookie Brandon Knight also had his hands full, matching up with Kyle Lowry. Lowry is one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA and also happens to be having a breakout year on the offensive end. Knight, to put it mildly, struggled. He still plays like the game is going 1,000 miles per hour, especially when he is asked to initiate the offense. Knight commited six turnovers to go with four assists, but he also showed flashes of why the organizaiton and fans are so excited about him. He scord 15 points, but got them in a different way than his usual perimeter shooting. Knight made a concious effort to get into the lane and he was able to get some easy and not so easy points in the paint.
While the Pistons gave up way too many points in the paint (47), they were able to attack on their own end and finished the night with 42 points in the paint themselves.
Also having a strong game was Ben Gordon. Gordon scored 18 points and was especially aggresive early. He blocked two shots, had three steals and played pesky defense all night. Tayshaun Prince led all scorers with 20 points, including buzzer beaters to end the second and third quarters.
Last, and certainly not least, was Rodney Stuckey. I'm not sure if the Pistons envision him as a scorer off the bench or a starting two-guard long term, but tonight he played his bench role perfectly. He looked to score when the option presented itself and also helped settle down the offense some when Knight was getting rattled. Stuckey scored 16 points on 6-11 shooting, including 2 of 4 from 3-point land, and was the only Pistons player with a positive +/- differential.
But in the end it is the same problems that continue to plague Detroit, and it puts Frank in a tough spot. The Pistons are playing lazy and they are playing sloppy. They are also relying on a rookie at point guard and a sophomore at center, who also happens to get the most offensive touches. Following the dreadful John Kuester years, the players have developed a losing culture and some lackadaisical habits. Frank has to thread the needle of making everyone accountable for their mistakes while also keeping harmony within the locker room, and helping his young players learn and get better.
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… are we really blaming Kuester for a “losing culture?” Seriously?
This roster is garbage. It was garbage last year, and the year before that. If anything, Kuester squeezed more out of the garbage he was given than Frank has been able to do so far.
And most importantly, IME Kuester brought Monroe along perfectly. Having Monroe begin his career with no plays being called for him and forcing Monroe to go and get the ball in traffic I think had a hugely positive impact on his game. It took Monroe a couple weeks to adjust, but when the lightbulb went off he was scrambling for loose balls and scoring off put-backs left and right.
By making Monroe get a firm handle on the foundational skills that any PF/C must bring to the table before branching out to using his more unusual skills, Kuester did the Pistons a huge service. Meanwhile Jod was licking his chops to re-sign Tay for another four years.
by Gabe F-B on Jan 17, 2012 10:59 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
rec'd and agreed 100%
I still don’t think Kuester was that bad at the basketball parts of coaching. Better than Curry, and so far, not any worse than Frank.
"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."
So far this year, the scores haven’t been close enough for Frank to get repeatedly coached out of games like Kuester was last season.
and to think
nobody has even walked out of practice, thrown a team-wide boycott, refused to enter a game, or threw a hissy fit.
i guess as long we have a team of model citizens sucking harder is more acceptable to people, or something.
Walla text
i guess as long we have a team of model citizens sucking harder is more acceptable to people, or something.
Actually it is more acceptable, to me anyway.
Frank gets his shot. We’re like 15 games in. Any comparisons to Kuester or Curry or whatever is silly this early in the season.
It’s these cats’ fault they are playing such garbage quality ball, but it’s also Joe Dumars’ fault that they’re assembled the way they are. I would like them to pop that Detroit on the front of their jerseys with their record reversed, but it is what it is. At least they’re acting professionally towards their coach, which after last season is a huge improvement. Hopefully some pieces get moved around during Dumarswatch, he nails the draft down correctly and we get a more measured roster that can find some chemistry. Detroit is nearly bereft of it as I type.
But I digress, yes, losing with a positive attitude is far better than team mutiny and ill subliminals being shot at your coach to reporters. Fuck. That. Noise. That was the low point for me as a modern-day Pistons fan and the turning point where I really started to lose faith in ole #4. He was quiet as kept the whole time and if he tried to handle shit in-house, he failed quite miserably.
Again, the low point in my Detroit Pistons fandom. We had a right to want Rip Hamilton to pack his shit.
The NBA is cyclical and as diehards, we eat shit and tread water until like 2014, to quote my onetime hero William Flavor Flav Drayton – “that’s the way the ball bounces, G”. These is the lean years son.
Editor’s note: BTW Dan Dresden, my ribs are nearly healed and I stopped using percocet a week ago, so if you want them just gimme a hollar.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
by Skylar on Jan 18, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 9 recs
Alright motherfucker
I’ll squirrel some away and give them to you at the Blowout ’12. Deal?
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
The appearance's are definitely more in favor of Frank being the better coach.
he’s definitely more articulate (outside of the pregnancy comparison). He seems to have a better handle on the team as a whole. His lineups don’t suck and we don’t see much Austin Daye.
It’s too early to be saying he’s a better coach in general because it’s still a pretty new season. But from what we can see that he can be graded on I’d have to say that Frank has been a pretty good coach thus far.
Roster was arguably better under Q
Players Q had available LF hasn’t (in one case, so far): Rip, Wilcox, T-Mac, and (so far), CV.
Players LF has available Q didn’t: Knight, Jonas, Damien Wilkens [I’m not counting Macklin, at least not yet, since he’s hardly played].
Of course in terms of long term development, you would want Knight and Jonas over anyone on Q’s list, but in terms of “let’s win now,” Q’s list was almost certainly stronger.
In a way, this makes me realize that CV’s absence really is making us worse. Even despite the whole “can’t rebound or play defense” things.
His offense will be nice off the bench.
and I still can’t understand why Wilcox wasn’t kept around. He honestly could have started for this current team and JJ could have played more consistently in position as Tay’s backup while logging extra minutes as a PF. Wilcox honestly made matchups for this team in the frontcourt a lot more manageable.
But back to what I was saying, I’m not as hard on CV as most people around here. For the amount he makes he should be doing more, but it’s kinda pointless to be worrying about his money at this point unless it’s in regards to a trade. As long as Gordon starts he’s our strongest scoring threat off the bench right now. As long as our bench consists of Stuckey, Bynum, Wilkins, Max, and Big Ben we are gonna get killed for stretches at a time offensively. CV will help round that out because even though he likes to shoot 3’s, he is a scoring threat from all over.
But if we had just kept Wilcox, things would look better.
I don’t see why Wilcox would want to come back to Detroit. Even paying for a washed up Boston team has gotta be better than this for him … right?
"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."
We coulda given him some of Tayshauns money...
*sobs*and let JJ start at SF.
*sobsmore*and signed somebody else who gives us Tay’s production for cheaper as a backup SF. (because I do not like Daye)
Wilcox has the same production every year. For the first 79 games he has nothing. Then he plays hard for 3 games. This is so people like you think “Why don’t we resign him.” We don’t resign him because he’s lazier than basking walrus.
Charlie V’s contract is not terrible, he’ll be able to add something once he returns.
If we had Wilcox he would be doing the WontCox right about this time. He’s worse than worthless.
The advantage to Wilcox isn't that's he's a great, or even consistently really good, center
It’s that having him (or someone like him) on the roster not only is another big man on a roster that desparately needs them, and moreover it allows other folks, notably JJ, to play more often in a position they are better at playing.
Exactly. I thought Wilcox was pretty solid for the majority of last season. Yes, he seems to be a contract year guy. But he’s a better fit than Charlie Villanueva at a fraction of the cost (and probably Max too for that matter).
"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."
wilcox also sometimes rebounds and sometimes dunks
which is sometimes cool
the only major difference in minute allocation
between productive and non-productive minutes is that Knight has replaced all of Mcgrady’s and some of Stuckey’s minutes from last season.
CV sucks. Jerebko has basically replaced Wilcox, and Maxiell and Monroe are both better than last season so CV’s absence shouldn’t be a factor in this sucktitude whatsoever.
Prince, Daye, Gordon, Wilkins, and Knight suck, and Stuckey is playing less. Last season Stuckey played more and T-Mac was here – so we at least got some productive minutes from the back 3 positions – this year we’ve gotten very few if any productive minutes from those positions.
what i'm trying to say
is the backcourt is one million times worse than the frontcourt, and that the frontcourt is actually better this season than last season even though it’s still not good enough. no sugarcoat, but we might be fielding the worst starting backcourt in the history of the NBA, or at least it can’t be far off.
If Knight and Gordon remain the starters, and if they don’t improve, they’ll be negative with respect to Win Shares and Wins Produced. Same for Bynum. Stuckey’s positive production won’t be close to overcoming that.
So yeah, that could be possible, which is scary.
"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."
I don't fault Frank at all for the record
It’s a competitive league and he has the least to compete with. Add to that a shortened training camp in his first year and hardly any practice time, and a tougher-than-most early schedule. They showed better effort and chemistry than I expected so far and most young guys seem to be improving. That’s all I could ask for.
Well that and Anthony Davis.
Anybody can happen!
Kuester
I don’t blame Kuester for the losing culture, I am just saying that the Kuester years were a failure. And in the aftermath of that failure the players picked up bad habits and a losing culture was established.
I think even more alarming than the lack of size and skill on the roster right now, the Pistons are doing dumb, lazy things that are contributing to them being continuously blown out. How Lawrence Frank manages that situation will be very difficult, but it is important that he gets it right.
Biyombo watch 2012: 11 points, 10 rebounds, 4 blocks against the Magic.
by garrettelliott on Jan 17, 2012 11:20 PM EST reply actions
On 5-5 shooting and in 21 minutes
Anybody can happen!
by Tom Y. on Jan 18, 2012 12:01 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Impossible.
He’s a total bust.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Love Beer? Me too! http://jimbobsbeerblog.wordpress.com/
Follow me on twitter: #JimBobsBeerBlog
by The Boourns on Jan 18, 2012 3:06 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not sure who that is.
I wrote a book about time travel. Buy it and/or die. http://www.thetimetravelguide.com
by heWizard on Jan 18, 2012 3:45 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
It's so beautiful!
sniff
Welcome... to the Wallace-hood
by tads on Jan 18, 2012 8:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Starting Ben
I think this move is pretty much an admission that JJ is not a PF. I was hoping he could do a good job there, and he has had a few great games, but he mostly seems to be outmatched in the paint. The only upside to this season so far is that Monroe and Knight are getting plenty of minutes and we’re going to have a good shot at a high lottery pick.
I think it has more to do with the fact Houston leads the league in bebounds
and Frank didn’t want to be outmatched from the start. I don’t think its feasible to start Wallace game after game. It comes down to a lack of options.
in other news there were plenty of blocks, dunks, and rebounds in a certain college basketball game thus evening.
by mcflies on Jan 18, 2012 12:01 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
JJ is a pretty good rebounder though.
even out of position. I don’t know if at this point in his career if Wallace is still a better rebounder than JJ.
Wallace has a 14.6% rebound rate
Jerebko has a 12.8% rebound rate. I’d consider that good for a SF, but probably below average to average for a PF
by mcflies on Jan 18, 2012 12:23 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
What I wonder is whether its more to prove a point to JoD to fucking do something about the PF position
Maxiell is not a starting PF. CV has a sore ankle that according to him, he just woke up one day and it was hurting. Monroe is a PF playing C so realistically we have 0 PFs that should be starting on any team.
JJ can definitely get points off the bench, especially if he’s coming in with Stuckey. Between the two of them as our 6th/7th men their salaries don’t represent a huge investment ($12M a year for the next 3). So they bank on tanking this season, getting Davis, having Davis/Monroe become the greatest frontcourt since ever, and Knight progressing into a triple threat point guard.
Silver lining gentlemen, silver lining. We already have our super sub bench set, now we just need a few superstars…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Love Beer? Me too! http://jimbobsbeerblog.wordpress.com/
Follow me on twitter: #JimBobsBeerBlog
Charles Illavenueva be bringing whole new meaning to the term
super sub

gout havin ass motherfucker, lay off them sooper subs
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
by Skylar on Jan 18, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Monroe's game
Just read Langlois piece on the game and the best part was this quote from Monroe: "I had a bad game and they did a good job on defense." How refreshing to hear a guy say that, rather than blame some one else. Just like the game at Golden State when he took the technical free throw – the Moose stepped up.
by revken on Jan 17, 2012 11:35 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Moose. What's not to like?
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
Missed the game
Tonight’s was the first game of the season that I haven’t watched. But contrary to the writeup, possessions, points off turnovers and fast break points were nearly identical. DIfference in the game, Houston shot nearly 50% and the Pistons shot the ball poorly. Or specifically, Monroe and Jerebko shot poorly. I guess that’s going to happen, but it hurts to waste good performances by Stuckey and Gordon and an OK performance by Prince. First time all year that those three players have all contributed in the same game
Not sure 20 points on 22 shots is an ok performance, along with 3 TO’s to 0 assists. Maybe compared to his recent games…
Anybody can happen!
Beasley would beg to differ
the rest of the team scored 60 points on 61 shots….
by mcflies on Jan 18, 2012 12:08 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Fire Joe
This is a disgrace, the old piston teams are rolling in their graves no wonder the stands are empty in Detroit. No one is stepping up and saying to the fans stand by sorry for the inconvenience we are under construction. I heard Joe Dumars say at the start that he expects this team to compete for a playoff spot are you f—king kidding me. The pistons got a new form of cancer call Joe Dumars he never selects the best player available GORE picked Knight, Joe would’ve picked a 5’9 center from Battle Creek that can’t score. What are they waiting for get Monroe some help why did you sign Tay and Stucky and mess the cap up worse than it already is. With Gordon and CV taking up 90 mil of that good job Joe Piston fans brace for another 12 yrs of losing.
by tommy38ism on Jan 18, 2012 12:59 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
"5’9 center from Battle Creek"
Actually, I’m 5’10.5" and from Grand Rapids. But yes, I can confirm that last year Dumars contacted me. He said he was looking to get away from the “long, smooth, can really stroke it” paradigm. As a short, awkward white guy with an awful shot, I fit the bill.
by Birdman84 on Jan 18, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Anthony Davis dropped 27 points, 14 boards, and 7 blocks against Arkansas
If losing gets us better odds at him and JOD fired, then more of this please. It sucks in the moment, but it’s for the best long-term. Being bad is better than straight mediocrity.
How's that for a slice of fried gold?
by Thom not Tom Gores on Jan 18, 2012 2:56 AM EST reply actions
This is by no means an acquittal of Joe, though
He needs to be fired yesterday.
How's that for a slice of fried gold?
by Thom not Tom Gores on Jan 18, 2012 2:57 AM EST up reply actions
You heard it here first folks...
Tom Gores will represent us at the NBA Draft Lottery and win the 1st overall.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Love Beer? Me too! http://jimbobsbeerblog.wordpress.com/
Follow me on twitter: #JimBobsBeerBlog
I was kind of hoping he would send his illegitimate son.
I wrote a book about time travel. Buy it and/or die. http://www.thetimetravelguide.com
What, precisely, is the angle at which your head tilts?
by -PS- on Jan 18, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I was kind of hoping he would send a circus bear.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
Houston exposes our roster problem
Frankly, I was surprised the Pistons got close as late as the early 4th quarter.
i've been getting into the habit of reading opposing team's sn pages lately
just to see if other fans recognize how shitty our team is, how godly monroe is, and for the inevitable commentor to point out how pointlessly this team is assembled. one commenter on the houston recap said something to the effect that the rockets seemed to lighten up once they realized how much better they were than the pistons, which is probably true.
ah...
but our team has still more cheeseburgers per capita than their team. Our victories are sealed.
Don’t you think that the Pistons playing basketball exposes our roster problem?
I wrote a book about time travel. Buy it and/or die. http://www.thetimetravelguide.com
Patrick Patterson
Murdered us last year, too.
I wrote a book about time travel. Buy it and/or die. http://www.thetimetravelguide.com
Davis has already set the block record
And the season is not even close to being over. I’m ok with these losses, as long as he’s the light at the end of this dark, dark tunnel.
yeah he destroyed it last night...
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Love Beer? Me too! http://jimbobsbeerblog.wordpress.com/
Follow me on twitter: #JimBobsBeerBlog
Yeah, he was two away from breaking it last night
And then he went off and got himself seven. That’s just unreal.
Kriz...you obviously didn't see my factual post...
Tom Gores will tilt the odds in his favor and win the lottery.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Love Beer? Me too! http://jimbobsbeerblog.wordpress.com/
Follow me on twitter: #JimBobsBeerBlog
by The Boourns on Jan 18, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I want rebounds, dunks, and blocks
but will also consider rebounds, dunks, and biceps
if either of those three criteria can’t be met…i will consider crying
by mcflies on Jan 18, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

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