V., I am dissapoint this morning.
At least 10 hours have passed and I see no thoughts on .500 in two years.
4 months ago
freywagg
36 comments
1 recs |
Comments
Sheesh...
I have a life, several actually, outside of DBB.
I am working on a business deal which has turned complicated in the last 2-3 days and was on a plane yesterday cross country.
So…let me cut to the chase-executive summary
1) We’re clearly in tank mode. I love watching Dumars spin this as something else, he’s a master at that, but he’s fooling no one here. I’m fine with this and you should be too. This means…
2) We should get a quality big in the draft
3) Our problems being competitive are generally related to being undersized, and lack of quality bigs.
4) Ignore what Dumars is spinning in the media, when he says that Tay and Stuckey are “assets” just mentally insert “trade” before it. Kind of like that famous Twilight Zone episode about the space aliens who come to “serve man”. Although….I don’t mind Stuckey that much, you can argue both are playing to their contracts.
4a) Tay makes a lot more sense playing on a contender, and I believe that will happen eventually. JJ is clearly more effective at the 3.
4b) Clipper blogger Kevin Arnovitz suggested the Clips trade Jordan for CV31 straight up. While CV31 would be a much better fit on the Clips than the Pistons, and the same with Jordan, and there is a certain logic to the deal, that deal is just an outright hijacking at first glance. At second glance too. It’s not a realistic trade, it’s more a Pistons fan would come up with rather than a respected blogger like Arnovitz.
5) What I’ve seen from Gores so far is that he will be a competent owner. Actually, more than competent.
6) I will continue to defend Joe Dumars. Matt Millen he isn’t. The one mistake he did make was starting the rebuilding process when it was clear that Mr. D’s health was failing and he wouldn’t have the managerial control he thought he had. I say this because if an outsider like myself knows Karen Davidison is, and acts like a fourth wife, and her henchman Alan Ostfield is a tool, and an incompetent one at that, he knows he’s screwed for the time being. So…we went from reloading to rebuilding.
7) Too early to tell about Brandon Knight. Again, let me point out that he more or less went straight to the NBA from college, there was no Summer League, there was no preseason to speak of (and the journos should be ashamed of themselves for pimping two exhibition games as a “preseason”), but early indications are favorable. His numbers would be better if his teammates would make shots after he passes them the ball, but he’s no Ricky Rubio…at least yet.
8) So…your core going into 2012-13 will be
Moose
Knight/Stuckey/BB (not the worst backcourt rotation)
quality rookie big
JJ
Adding the quality big will allow Monroe to play the 4, JJ the 3 which are their natural positions. Also, Singler will probably be with us next year as the backup 3. His playing in Spain is a huge win/win for both him and us. He has more smarts than ability, but he should develop into at least a back of the rotation player in the NBA.
This should be a 35-37 win team next year with many players heading into their primes. Getting to .500 or better the following year shouldn’t be that big a challenge. BK’s development is key, of course, but it’s better than a coinflip right he will develop into an above average NBA PG. He is lacking maturity and experience, but a lot of intangible things I’ve liked so far watching him play. He can also hit the NBA 3, and his shooting will only improve, and he will have more success driving the lane as his body matures.
I think Dan Dresden thought we could get Ibaka from OKC…he’s way outperformed his contract so far, but he’s signed until 2014. Your FA bigs for this summer look like (at least the palatable and signable ones for me) Asik (RFA), Bass and Mahinmi, and only the first two really are appealing to me. I really like Bass’ game, but maybe Asik compliments Moose better.
OK, everyone happy now? I gotta get back to work.
This is DBB, and this is what we do.
by V. on Jan 20, 2012 7:06 AM EST reply actions 8 recs
Five, that's a green for your ass.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
I want to know more about this business deal!
by garrettelliott on Jan 20, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Some distressed commercial RE in a distressed Appalachian state known for it’s fucktard pols. litigation galore. i’m just trying to get the notes sold and make a few bucks. enough to take MFMP and his old lady for some “special dances” at Scarletts in Tampa/Ybor. Ok, more than enough. Ok, a lot more than enough.
This is DBB, and this is what we do.
by V. on Jan 21, 2012 7:37 AM EST up reply actions
I my mind grapes I pictured your business deal involving more Mexican stand offs.

by garrettelliott on Jan 21, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No, after you.
No, after you.
No, after you.
No, after you.
NO, after YOU.
NOAFTERYOU!
NAFTERYOO!!
LISTEN YOU GODDAMN FUCKING SLAG, AFTER YOU!!!!!
by Mike Payne on Jan 21, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Sooooo Rec'd, Eh?
This is DBB, and this is what we do.
by V. on Jan 21, 2012 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I agree with 1-3, but I’m not sure how far adding another quality big takes us.
I hope to JoD you’re right about 4.
I don’t see how 4a helps us. What contender has something to trade to us that we’d want for Tay? Maybe a returning bad contract and a pick? E.g., maybe the Lakers could send us Walton and their first round for next year, but how is that any better than simply letting him walk? Moving Tay will be addition by subtraction to an extent, but not by much.
4b would get Red Panda’d off of DBB. If that happens, I’ll sacrifice my Grant Hill teal jersey on the alter of JoD.
5, agreed.
6, really? KD again? Didn’t this offseason’s moves tell you anything about how “limited” Dumars wasn’t by KD?
7, sort of agreed. He’s been awful so far, but I’ll reserve final judgment until the end of next season. Markief Morris has been better than average for a rookie big thus far, and I was heavy on taking him or Faried. Even if Knight pans out in 3-4 years, it’s still an odd selection.
8. You really think we’re going to get rid of Tay, BG, and CV by the end of this season?
"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."
I agree with you, Tay should end up with either LA team, but it’s going to be a 3 teamer if it happens. I’d favor the Clips for a couple of reasons, but really, Butler has to run true to form and get injured again for something to happen probably. Which is actually amazing consider the high number of injuries this year that he hasn’t.
Problem is in the NBA, you trade equivalent talent, which is usually damaged/distressed goods for like damaged./distressed goods. One of the problems Dumars has had in making deals (outside of the interim ownership issues) is that many GMs believe Dumars overvalues his talent.
Also related to (4b), this is why I have a hard time taking bloggers seriously. The level of information they have access to is substantially lower than, say, beat writers. Where beat writers generally know (and usually can’t talk about it), bloggers have to settle for speculation. Sometimes they get it right, more often they don’t. Consider our friends Feldman and Hayes over at PP..they’ve grown as writers quite a bit over the last couple of years, but it’s only been in the last couple of years they’ve gotten any real crediiblity and respect from the organization.
I think CV was gone from Day 1, but Gores wouldn’t allow an amnesty. No biggie, we’re not going anywhere anyway. This mysterious thing with the ankles is so Pistons-eque. I don’t dislike CV31, but I don’t want a guy playing for me who is more into Twitter than BB.
I think BG is staying, he’s played well enough this year, but he’s at the wrong stage in his career where he should be playing with a rebuilding team. Problem is his contract makes him undealable. I think Tay will be dealt if not this year, than next year, by the deadline. His contract , to me at least, is structured to make dealing him palatable.
Regarding “The Broiler”, what curve do you grade him on? I don’t think you’ve been fair with him in assessing his skills. Where you see numbers, I see a 20yo kid who looks like he’s going to “get” the NBA game. I think it’s 60/40 he will develop into a above average NBA PG. CB is probably best comparison. You could do worse than CB.
This is DBB, and this is what we do.
by V. on Jan 21, 2012 7:57 AM EST up reply actions
The level of information they have access to is substantially lower than, say, beat writers.
Everyone has access to the factual record, V. Today, bloggers (and communities) have equal access to advanced metrics which yield greater value than access to sources. It wouldn’t take a phone call to our GM to determine that this team is shit with only a dim light at the end of the tunnel. And while beat writers have been towing the company line over the last few years, it was the bloggers (and communities) that were saying “we’re really fucked” years before anyone else noticed.
If you had been reading the beat writers over the last few years, Detroit’s record in 2011-12 might come as a surprise. If you had been reading the articles and comments on DetroitBadBoys, you saw this shit show coming a mile away. So much for the value of access, V.
by Mike Payne on Jan 21, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd For Shit Show Visuals
I would think nasal would get there sooner, but what do I know, right?
This is DBB, and this is what we do.
by V. on Jan 21, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Matcha Green Tea From Jamba Juice
is awesome.
And i’m rec’ing this for beating Mike Payne to the obvious response of a rhino taking a shit.
This is DBB, and this is what we do.
by V. on Jan 21, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think you’ve been fair with him in assessing his skills.
His skills are good. I don’t dispute that.
The problem is that thus far, he hasn’t translated those skills into the type of production that wins basketball games.
Historically, the draft is filled with guys like him who don’t ever actually get there. In other words, the odds are against him panning out.
If he does, great. I’ll cheer for him then the way I cheer for Monroe now. Monroe is a much better player now than the numbers I rely on projected he’d be. That kind of stuff happens, and when it does, I’m the kind of guy who will simply admit I was wrong and be happy about it.
The odds against Knight are a lot harsher, though. Knight was well below average in college with respect to some very key stats for a PG. Thus far, he remains well below average in those same areas (and he’s actually producing in the negative range via Win Shares and Wins Produced).
Going from below average to above average is rare enough. Going from negative to above average almost never happens.
"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."
precisely
One knock on Knight in college was that he didn’t pass well. He recorded 4 assists while averaging 36 minutes of play. And this guy is supposed to be a point guard? Really?
This year, he’s 50th in the league in assist rate, right behind Richard Hamilton (who is not a point guard, btw). While he’s not averaging 36 minutes a game, he’d average less than 4 assists if he did. That sucks really bad for a point guard.
Then there’s the argument that “he’ll learn how to distribute and pick up a passing game”. This was the argument about Rodney Stuckey too. And it never happened.
Knight’s numbers in college were bad, and like Gulks I’m going to hope he gets much better. Even a little better would still be shitty though. So far, Knight’s production has been worrisome for those expecting to see a blossoming young point guard.
The thing that worries me the most about Knight is that he really does look good when he plays. He’s quick, he’s smooth, and in spite of not racking up tons of assists, he does appear to have good court vision. And, he does have a decent 3-point shot.
Without using some sort of objective statistical measure, I don’t think you’d come to the conclusion that he’s not very good (yet), and thus I worry if Joe will ever get there.
"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."
rec'd for 72 games next year
we are not lost 10 more games.
Where broken English happens
by OK from J on Jan 20, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm on board with this idea.
I don’t think we’re as far away as it seems at the moment. But really it all hinges on Jod making the right moves and a lottery draft player panning out. As a baseball fan I have trouble putting a bunch of faith in what I consider prospects. The translation isn’t exactly the same but my mind tends to make it so.
Everything is definitely possible. We just haven’t been given too much to keep faith in.
I like the optimism. I don’t want to lock us in to getting a bigman just because we need one. We should get whoever the best player in the draft is, and hopefully he’ll be big. I know if we get Harrsison Barnes I am on fucking board and we can trade singler for another pick
Welcome... to the Wallace-hood
Question:
Where did you get the info for 4b? I looked at Clippers Blog and did a search for CV and got nothing. It just seems too ridiculous to be true.
My federal building is way cooler than your federal building.
DD Retweeted It
Check his timeline a few days back. Or maybe better, check Arnovitz’s tweets.
But..let’s be real, this deal is soooo not happening. I was trying to think of a deal where they could trade Tay and CV31, but the salaries don’t match. But if Butler gets hurt (again), and the Clips are contending (I am big on them, because everyone underestimates CB’s value to the team), they have to make some moves, both to keep CP3 from bolting and to contend. This may well involve Jordan, as there is some question if Blake and Jordan can coexist in the same frontcourt. There’s also this question that the Clips may have overpaid for Jordan, and no doubt, while I think the concept of a “stretch 4” is mostly bogus, it may work well with the Clips offense. An offense with CB, Blake, CV31 and Butler features players whose skills compliment each other very well, but if they’re going to make that kind of deal, go for Paul Pierce instead of CV31. Pierce for, say, Gomes and Jordan makes a lot more sense for both sides.
This is DBB, and this is what we do.
by V. on Jan 21, 2012 8:08 AM EST up reply actions
check Arnovitz’s tweets
I did. He never said a thing about Villanueva. This is what Arnovitz said:
“<a href=“https://twitter.com/#!/kevinarnovitz/status/159869629915856897” >This is where a stretchier 5-man would help Blake. Too much congestion down low."
Dan Dresden joked "CV for Jordan straight up" in his retweet.
In short:
Clipper blogger Kevin Arnovitz suggested the Clips trade Jordan for CV31 straight up.
No he didn’t.
Thanks for the heads up, and correction. DD was obviously BUI. Or sometthing like that. The best snark is subtle, but at 140 characters or less, there usually isn’t a lot of room for subtlety.
This is DBB, and this is what we do.
by V. on Jan 21, 2012 12:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
















