"Those are assets. Rebuilding is not about letting assets walk," Dumars said Wednesday night on 971 The Ticket. "Stuckey is 24 or 25 (he's 25). He's a young guy and part of the rebuilding process. Tayshaun Prince, when you look at rebuilding, there is always going to be one veteran you have going forward with young guys."
"You don't let assets walk," Dumars said. "That is not how you rebuild. Tayshaun is a veteran and he is an asset. He is the one veteran we committed to moving forward."
Joe Dumars on 97.1 The Ticket, via Terry Foster at the Detroit News
4 months ago
Big Z in Orlando
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“You don’t let assets walk,”
Sure you do. You absolutely do. Haven’t we already been through this? Didn’t this end in miserable failure last time we did this?
This is one of the most basic fundamentals of business— you buy something when its cheap and you sell it when it increases in value. Buy low, sell high. Here, I’ll let a pretty successful businessman explain it to you, Joe:
I always want to create value; I never want to buy value
You just paid Rodney Stuckey above his market value. It was clear that the market wasn’t in any hurry to set Rodney’s value, naming his price with an offer sheet that Detroit could then match. You didn’t just “buy value” here, you paid more than what the market was willing to pay for a guy this team has overvalued for years. Bonus Points- you could have had Stuckey’s 34% shooting for just $3 million this year while developing your super-cheap rookie Brandon Knight.
You just paid a nearly 32-year-old Tayshaun Prince $28 million on a back-loaded contract (fucking hilarious – this is some kind of sadistic performance art, right?). This is the absolute opposite of creating value. This is buying an “asset” that is decreasing in value. Buy high, sell low.
And Tom Gores, you’re just as guilty here, guy. So far your pretty press talk has been bullshit. Joe may be the guy picking the players, but you’re signing the contracts.
by Mike Payne on Jan 20, 2012 8:54 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
here's a better way of saying it
Joe Dumars is like the fat kid that hordes ice cream cones, hoping that some other kid will drop theirs so Joe can sell him one of his at a profit. The problem is that all of the ice cream cones are melting all the fuck over him, and no one wants a melted ass ice cream cone.
Three cheers, Joe. Dipshit.
by Mike Payne on Jan 20, 2012 9:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not to mention
He’s let assets walk repeatedly.
Ok, my bad. He didn’t just let them walk HE ACTUALLY PUSHED THEM OUT THE DOOR.
The only question I have it this point, is how long it’s going to take Gores to figure out Joe D is clueless. I’m going to put the over/under at 3 years.
by Big Z in Orlando on Jan 20, 2012 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
I'd definitely take the Under
JoD will definitely be amnestying someone at the end of this season and my bet is on CV.
That will give him some money to work with. Depending on what he does with that moeny and our draft pick, if we continue to lose the way we are now, he’ll be gone by the end of next season.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
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Gores is a smart fuckin' dude. And so are his representatives.
He didn’t get to where he was on blind luck and a guy that smart doesn’t surround himself with idiots. If he did, he’d never be where he is today. He inherited JoD from a team built and owned on legacy. Just as he gave his respect to Bill Davidson by putting his signature up top, he’ll give JoD an opportunity to prove himself. But I truly believe that he’s willing to give JoD the rope to hang himself because he knows it’s the only way to get a true look at how Dumars manages a team.
To be honest, I think Gores will be working with Illitch to bring the team back downtown to split with the Wings. Gores can still use the Palace for concerts and who knows, maybe he even tries to bring in an NBDL team (The Auburn Hills Aardvarks). If Gores is looking to move the team into the city, then he’s probably content with losing the first couple years if only because it means better assets to work with in 5 years or so. If this is actually Gores plan, then he’s certainly hired the best GM to execute it. Dumars will keep this team in the cellar for as long as he’s at the helm.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Love Beer? Me too! http://jimbobsbeerblog.wordpress.com/
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The Bill D Move...
…that’s all you need to know right there. That one sealed it for me.
Bill D was one of the wealthiest men ever to grace the earth, but he was one of the Georgest also. His stories of generosity with his employees are legend.
I think we’re going to be in good hands here.
This is DBB, and this is what we do.
by V. on Jan 21, 2012 7:29 AM EST up reply actions
Gores is a smart fuckin’ dude.So Tom Gores only fucks smart dudes?
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
Real Jeopardy or SNL Jeopardy? This is an important question.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
if you need a veteran presence couldnt you just do something like Utah did? sign a guy like Raja Bell for 10 mil over 3 yrs?
follow me on twitter: @danieldresden
Ouch
I’m not nearly as pissed at the offseason moves as some are, but if I were Ben Gordon or Charlie Villanueva, I don’t know how I could see this comments as anything but a personal slap. Re-signing Prince meant that the “one veteran going forward” with the young guys obviously isn’t BG or CV. They now know they have no future with the team and will probably play like it. Not the way to increase trade value.
I listened to the bulk of the transcript and I do not remember Charlie or Gordon mentioned once.
…shit could get ugly. You know, I was looking forward to a relatively drama-free Pistons franchise for awhile too.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
Charlie has to be getting amnestied. this phantom foot injury thing seems fishy.
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I'm fine with it, whatever the case. I hope he finds a team he can give a shit about, cause this ain't the one.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
As Much As I'd Like To Agree With You
As big as a tool CV is, I can’t believe he would be out of the rotation if truly healthy. I know hw can’t be one of Dumars’ favorite players, but this scenario seems like a replay of last year with Rip to a certain extent. I mean, you woke up and your ankles hurt? Did you grab them toohard on your sleep or what?
This is DBB, and this is what we do.
by V. on Jan 20, 2012 2:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe Not
since CV plays like a phantom on D.
This is DBB, and this is what we do.
by V. on Jan 21, 2012 7:29 AM EST up reply actions
you could have just stopped at Phantom
dude hasn’t played more than like 15 minutes all season.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Love Beer? Me too! http://jimbobsbeerblog.wordpress.com/
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I Remember Against The Bulls
He came in, Bulls immediately posted Boozer up against him. Two possessions Boozer buckets later, CV was subbed out. I don’t think he’s played since.
This is DBB, and this is what we do.
by V. on Jan 21, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
i'm still hoping it's gordon
if CV stays he plays what? 20 minutes a game, or less. that’s only 20 minutes of suck tops, and he costs less. if Gordon stays we have 30+ minutes of suck on the court, and it’s costing more.
So Ben Wallace isn’t a veteran? There’s your guy right there. He is more coach than player at this point in his career. Isn’t that really more of the veteran presence you want on this team anyway?
I would agree, except I believe Ben Wallace is likely to retire within a year, two if we're lucky.
I think Dumars sees this as a three to five year project, factoring in three to five more drafts.
I don’t know. Just a thought. I wanted Stuckey and Prince gone.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
Ben has already stated this is his last year.
"trout jefferson is using multiple numbers and no swears. I barely recognize you man." - Kurt Mensching
by Trout Jefferson on Jan 20, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Right, but in the world of Sports that's not always the last world.
I don’t even need to rattle a list of names off of guys who rethought things.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
recd for last world
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
While The Ensuing Hatefest Was Predictable
Tay and Stuckey are assets. I don’t think either contract is unreasonable, especially considering some of the buffoonery which went on during the FA signing period.
Tay will be dealt at some point. You can judge the signing the by what’s acquired for him. He is still a serviceable player, its just that he’s a bad fit here.
Stuckey may well work out, his defense is solid and he seems to be more reliable shooting from outside (although I don’t know his stats, this is based on what I’ve seen). Even then, if it doesn’t, his contract has a lot of flexability to it.
This is DBB, and this is what we do.
by V. on Jan 20, 2012 2:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Tay will be dealt at some point. You can judge the signing the by what’s acquired for him. He is still a serviceable player, its just that he’s a bad fit here.
This is exactly what you said about Rip, V. You were wrong then, too.
This is also what we thought Kwame would bring...and Wilcox...and plenty of other players that have been signed to the Pistons...
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Love Beer? Me too! http://jimbobsbeerblog.wordpress.com/
Follow me on twitter: #JimBobsBeerBlog
This Is My New Mantra
When Dumars says “assets”, just think of space aliens coming to Earth to “serve man”.
This is DBB, and this is what we do.
by V. on Jan 21, 2012 8:22 AM EST up reply actions
Stuckey’s only an asset if he picks it up significantly. He’s underperforming pretty significantly at the moment.
And no one wants Tay when he’s 35. That contract is not unreasonable for this season. It’s all the seasons after this one that start to get bad.
"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."
How is and overpaid 31 year old a trade asset?
A young underpaid guy with upside is an asset, a cheap effective veteran is an asset.
Also, I cannot wrap my mind around overpaying a guy on the downside to trade him.
Fire Joe Dumars
I actually agree with you
Tayshaun has been incredibly consistent throughout his entire career so I think people just assuming that he is going to have this incredible fall in production in a year or two are short-sighted. And people complaining about the Stuckey extension need to wait until he’s healthy and integrated into the team. Stuckey hasn’t played less than 70 games since his rookie year so you can’t take a common injury like a groin injury and start bitching about injury or ineffectiveness.
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There’s really no logical way to justify either contract without saying “I hope he gets better” and “I hope he doesn’t get worse”. Unfortunately, history is against both. The fact that Joe didn’t let the market set Stuckey’s value was a mistake, especially when we could have just settled for the qualifying offer. As for Tayshaun, giving a nearly 32-year-old player a back-loaded contract that’ll end at ~$8M is insane, especially when you already have a young, cheap small forward on the roster that has out-performed him at that position in the past (and I’m not talking about Daye).
Given the way these contracts were handled and the needs of this roster, I don’t see how either deal could be justified without a massive dose of hope. That’s not even taking into account the 800lb gorilla in the room— the needs of our roster and the free agency opportunity cost.
I don't V, I just can't wrap my brain around what you're saying
Your concepts might make sense if it were in a longer format. Perhaps a fanpost?
Welcome... to the Wallace-hood
by tads on Jan 20, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this stuff makes my brain hurt
you don’t get better assets if you keep holding on to your same shitty ones. and you also don’t keep assets by paying them so much they cease to be ones.
it’s not hard to suck. they’re going to be picking top 5 for the next 3 years minimum. so in a sense he’s going to end up completing some sort of unintentional rebuild, but if I’m Gores I’m thinking i sure could have ended up with the same end result for a hell of a lot less money and fan exodus.
Word
you don’t get better assets if you keep holding on to your same shitty ones
This is the core of the issue. Despite all the hyperbole regarding Tay and Stuckey, the reality is that they are taking up roster spots and financial resources that would be better spent IMPROVING the team, rather than doing the dog-paddle. To me this is the crux of the issue.
by Big Z in Orlando on Jan 23, 2012 10:45 AM EST reply actions
I don't think Stuckey's trade value will increase.
You deal him even if you think it’s at a loss, and you let Tayshaun go like you let Rip Hamilton go.
Dumars is clearly still enamored with something about Stuckey either as a person or a player, and I know for a fact Tayshaun told him he was all in on a rebuild or as Dumars puts it “fully rebuilding”.
You guys heard/read that last bit, right? He said “fully rebuilding” and said he effectively considered the project over the last several years a partial rebuild. What we have here is a seriously strange approach to roster management.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
It's clear
That Dumars has no clear what “rebuilding” means.
It doesn’t mean winning 30 games a season (in our dreams) while signing your veterans to 4 year 25 Million dollar deals.
by Big Z in Orlando on Jan 26, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
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