Knight and Daye, Daye and Knight: Heat 101, Pistons 98
The Pistons played one of their three best games of the season* against Chris Bosh and the Miami Heat on Wednesday night, but the same two young guys that helped keep Detroit in the game ultimately could not propel them to an upset victory in front of a surprisingly packed house at The Palace.
It started with Austin Daye, who in his six previous home games was 6-for-36 shooting. He hit seven shots in the second quarter alone, four being three-pointers, which was four times as many threes as he had hit in 13 games this season. He finished with a career high 28 points on 10-for-18 shooting (4-for-8 behind the arc) and also had six rebounds.
With every Daye comes Knight, Brandon Knight, who added 17 on 7-for-14 shooting in 41-plus minutes, including four or five big shots to pull the Pistons closer after Heat misses or turnovers. He also recorded two of his five assists on Daye's buzzer beater at the half and on Jerebko's three to put the Pistons up that many with a minute and a half left in the game.
Unfortunately, the downfall in the final minute and a half had as much to do with Daye and Knight as them keeping the Pistons in it. Knight started by missing two crucial free throws that would've put the Pistons up five. After LeBron knocked down two free throws following a Daye shooting foul, Daye missed a three about as bad as he missed them in the first 13 games; Knight grabbed the offensive rebound and then missed his patent floater. In the final seconds, with the Pistons having a chance to tie the game with a three, Daye walked and turned it over before he could get off what was playing out to be about as bad of a shot as you could imagine.
That shouldn't take away from their overall high quality games. With experience, these are games the young guys will hopefully close out, but for as exciting as the first 47 minutes were seeing them fight tooth and nail, the final minute was just as frustrating.
After the jump, I'll actually talk about Greg Monroe. I promise.
- You were probably rolling your eyes throughout the first part of this recap, hitting CTL-F to search it, and wondering how the EFF this dude can talk about the young players carrying the Pistons against the Heat without mentioning the 21-year-old super sophomoose's 20 points and 10 rebounds, never mind some stingy defense. Well, Greg Monroe had seven double-doubles before tonight's. He had just as much to do with the Pistons hanging with the 13-5 Heat as Daye and Knight, but I thought it was more pertinent to point out the performances of two players we're not yet accustomed to playing like they did tonight. Forgive me. It is, however, very important to note that he bounced back from a mini-slump, like we all knew he would.
- Stuckey was great, too. He scored 15 points on five (5!) shots. He also had six assists (four turnovers) and fouled out.
- * I've seen a lot of comments here and on Twitter about how this is the best the Pistons have played all year and despite the L, which does help lottery odds, this is the kind of basketball that will endear this team to its fans. Several of those comments mentioned how there was no Gordon or Prince. All hate aside, Pistons played just as well in wins vs. Indiana (12-5) and Orlando (12-5) and those games had Gordon and Prince in the lineup (although i don't care about old basketball Prince). I'd say the Indiana game was the best game the Pistons have played this season. I'd also argue that the Pistons could've used Gordon on that last possession tonight -- his patent step back (albeit forced) three would've been a hell of a lot better look than Daye trying to put it on the floor and then traveling to end the game. Just saying.
- Continuing with debbie downer perspective: tonight's game was a career game for Daye. I'm pumped he finally found some confidence (and some net) but he was horrible overall for 13 games before this one. In his third season, he's still about as raw as he was in Year 1. Games like this keeps hope alive, though, and it's awesome to hear it's not for a lack of working hard.
- Daye pulling the chair out from under LeBron in the post like Rick Mahorn, making LBJ fall like the 4th quarter gravity is bringing him down, is another good way for Daye to become a fan favorite in Detroit.
- Pistons were 11-for-18 shooting on cut and transition plays; 6-for-11 on pick and rolls; 9-for-21 on spot ups. They shot 36-for-72 overall in the game. Heat were 9-for-18 on spot up, 3-for-9 on isolation, and 37-for-71 overall.
- Bosh was 12-for-15 with 27 points. LeBron James had 32 points. Minor details.
- JJ letting it hang limp like Laimbeer was bad ass, boy:
- Ben Wallace had three blocks in 23-plus minutes.
- Box score
-
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Re: Tayshaun Prince
It’s not we are any better or worse with or without Prince in the lineup. It’s that he is unnecessary and seeing such makes his contract all the dumber.
But anyway, I love JJ.
by madpoopz on Jan 26, 2012 12:59 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
you're part of the 1%
I KNEW IT, TDP.
by Mike Payne on Jan 26, 2012 1:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As was I
My first accounted-for roll call. I’m so happy. :)
As for the game… god. What a nailbiter. Can’t wait until we get back to playing where we WIN those games again.
Thank you sir Packey
It is an honor.
by blubomber17 on Jan 27, 2012 12:01 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Just saw the MFK'n highlights!!!
Thought I would stop through and rub shoulders, Greg Anthony said there are no moral victories in Basketball. And maybe He knows better than I because he played proffesionally. But Damn it feel good to see Austin get up off his ass and do something. And to read about Daye’s performance Is news, They didn’t mention him . I guess there are morale victories in fandom though Because you cant help but be thrilled about Our Guys taking it to a team that Must’ve thought they had a cakewalk coming. I hope they sore on that plane ride home.
Formerly known as SCNTFC!
I just wish Detroit could grow clone Leimbeers for later usage.
I also wish that Laimbeer and ’sheed could have played on the same team – that would have been amazing.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
Glad to get some traction out of Daye
I think awful strongly that it’d be a mistake to give up on Daye too early. There’s really no point – we’re a crummy team in need of as many young players with potential as possible. These struggles could wind up being the best thing for Daye. He’s having to fight for playing time, Frank holding him accountable defensively, and playing so terribly early on this season – it could wind up making him finally take seriously the improvements he’s needing to make in his game.
While the Dirk/Durant comparisons early on were certainly off target, I think he could easily become a Gallinari.
if my calculations are correct
I don’t think we can afford a Gallinari
by mcflies on Jan 26, 2012 10:27 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Bright side: Daye's sucked so badly up till now that if he ever does turn the corner, he'll cost less than a Gallinari
Of course, Jod will probably screw it up and overpay him anyway…
Let him and others play through their troubles...
and get closer to nailing Anthony Davis. Win-win for a team that’s not going to be in the playoffs anyway.
Though I think the best way to tank while still encouraging the team to compete hard is to first trade away all or almost all players that are not part of its future (preferably for draft picks/promising young players/cap space), then give them minutes to both gain experience and sink to the bottom of the league. That way they can develop a culture of playing hard while not jeopardizing our lottery odds because they’ll simply be too short handed. And there won’t be any disgruntled vets on the bench because there will simply not be many vets around.
(I do agree there needs to be some veteran guidance but not for something like 30m/4years for a players who takes minutes away from younger guys plus stops the offense)
Anybody can happen!
Dumars sometimes shifts promising young talent (like Afflalo) too soon and too cheaply.
It’s one of the things I like least about him. I think moving Daye right now would is premature and would piss me off.
Add to that Daye’s NBA infancy was spent around guys like Hamilton. As wretched as the numbers are this season, I truly think it’s a far more positive environment in 2012. I hope Frank & Dumars have a plan for him.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
I would think it's obvious by now
But I don’t think people really hate Prince (although there are many little things to hate about the way he plays and carries himself with the team). Ultimately this goes back to the same guy we always tend to blame, because it is his fault, Joe Dumars. There was a chance for Rip to leave on good terms with a fully positive image from the teams and fans, but Joe held on for too long, allowed the situation to become toxic and, while I think many fans are oblivious to it all, many developed a negative perception of him. Myself included.
Same is happening, has happened, with Tayshaun. He’s nothing he has not been before. Joe has intended on making him a focal point on offense when he is a guy who’s effective only as a 3rd, 4th. option and works off others. He’s tried making him a leader and a teacher when he’s more of a quiet guy who simply is there doing his job. There is no shame on being that guy.
We could have parted ways with the 30 year old role player who could have pursuit a championship with a contender while we remember him with appreciation for everything he contributed. Instead, he’s still here in clear dissonance of the rebuilding process, projecting to be overpaid (even if he delivers as he usually does) and to grow more exasperated with a group of young guys bound to make mistakes in a team bound to suck.
Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe even though on the court he seems to have a short fuse with young guys and seems to treat their faults in a detrimental manner he’s actually an excellent teacher and motivator when the cameras are not on. Maybe he wants to be part of the rebuilding process and sees as an honor being the guy who helps the young guys, and the team, to transition to an era that does not include him.
But even if all of that were true, his 8 million contract, on a team tied up with a 11 million per contract to Ben Gordon and 7.5 to Villanueva, on a team that has sucked with this core for the past 2 years and who is still sucking in a horrible manner makes no sense at all. Add to that Rodney Stuckey’s contract and you are tied up, maxed out, on a core who can barely produce wins.
Assets, Joe calls them. But how can slightly above average talent, flawed talent at that, on players that do not posses all around abilities while being obviously overpaid can be referred to as talent? Who can see a team thinking “I have to get myself Ben Gordon at 12 million”, I have to get myself Charlie Villanueva at 8 million", “I have to get myself 30 year old Tayshaun Prince at 6 -7 million”, because clearly their production on this team bodes well favorably to their performance on other teams.
I have nothing against each player themselves. I’m not even particularly mad a their contracts (even though I believe they are all overpaid). The fact that such shitty team has managed to tied itself long term to such terrible collection of overpaid contract on one dimensional players astounds me and, quite frankly, infuriates me.
Lastly, we live in a world were Darko got a profitable multi-year contract and was lauded as a Vlade Divac kind of guy. Meaning, sometimes shit don’t make much sense. So yes, a miracle could happen. A series of odd, unexplainable events could prompt GM’s to trade for our overpaid shit and not fuck us over in the process. Stranger things have happened. So yes, perhaps Tay, Ben and Charlie could wound up being traded. And I fully expect Joe Dumars defenders to portray him as some sort of genious who had the foresight of stupid events unfolding and as consequence free this franchise of his own stupidly bad decisions. Will I change my mind about Dumars then? No. Because while I’ve defended many of his actions (it boils my blood people claiming the assembling of the championship core was pure luck) the fact is that not only has he created a mess but he has proceeded to lock us further into it and thrown away the key. Every bit of information (and I’m not talking about stats) points towards his managerial decisions being stupid.
There is no explanation for locking up Tayshaun long term. NONE. As there was no explanation for locking up Charlie and Gordon at 90 million on the first day of free agency ( I have to admit that at some point I felt Charlie’s contract, by itself, could be fair due to his production) At this point is not purely about Tayshaun itself, but the thought process that has as a conclusion his retention on a rebuilding team thats already tied up to plenty of dead weight. To then come in an interview right after you sign Tay and Stuckey to about 16 million a year, to a team already paying Gordon and Villanueva 20 million a year, which adds up to, at best, a 30 win team and claim that your motivation is rebuilding, the possession of assets and FINANCIAL FREEDOM, makes me worrisome about the mind that put all of this together.
Joe getting out of this mess would be the equivalent of a person who’s sole aspiration for the future is winning the lottery and somehow manages to do so. Sure, he’s now a millionaire, but that doesn’t make him smart, just an incredibly lucky stupid person (sorry I’m not very good with analogies)
So if Joe manages to trade away of this mess, the only thing I could muster would be “Congratulations, you lucky idiot”
Fire Joe Dumars
by Kriz on Jan 26, 2012 10:41 AM EST reply actions 21 recs
First, awesome post. If you write it in a FanPost, it’d be bumped to the front page as quick as it was made green.
I would think it’s obvious by now. But I don’t think people really hate Prince
I think strong dislike is appropriate in my mind. Sure, it’s not his fault that Dumars showed up to his house in a birthday cake, ate his way out of it, and presented him with an ill-advised, frosty new contract (and moobs) that Larry Frank supposedly urged Prince to sign. But Prince did sign it and … as I type that I think back to the wise words of Moose about if you don’t like the situation you’re in, you should change it (and not by leaving), I’ll admit that Prince deserves credit for wanting to stay and make things better, but I’m just not seeing it — his general cry baby antics, the fact that Ben Wallace came out and said Prince was a vocal leader last year (which means he really sucked at it or was the vocal leader that led the mutiny against Kuester), and his Isolayshaun stubbornness, in conjunction with the fact he SHOULDN’T BE ON THIS TEAM ANYMORE, makes it very easy for me to be hostile toward the basketball player.
But you’re right in that Dumars is mostly to blame for this and maybe some of it is unwarranted deflecting.
by Packey on Jan 26, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
100% with you, MFKriz
(it boils my blood people claiming the assembling of the championship core was pure luck)
This is a really fun part of the conversation for me. I think every team that wins a championship benefits from some luck. Take SA, for example. They lucked into two of the greatest big man talents in a generation in David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Obviously, they managed a lot of other things really, really well in order to build around them successfully, but they aren’t the powerhouse they’ve been without getting lucky in the draft.
I think you can say the same for Dumars as it relates to Billups and Wallace. I think both pick-ups were intentional, but I think both players far exceeded even the biggest of expectations about them. Both of those guys were among the top 3 at their position for several years. That’s not really what you’d expect from a throw-in from a S&T (Big Ben) and an MLE signing (Billups).
I don’t think we were good totally and completely because of luck, but I do think we got lucky along the way. And I don’t mean that as a criticism, just as an observation. Everyone gets lucky, and that’s just the way it is. It’s what you do to take advantage of that luck that defines teams like the one we witnessed last decade, IMO.
"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."
Agreed.
I think the element of luck is underestimated in sports. Even bad teams beat good ones on occasion. There’s no need to fit some sort of narrative to each instance (oh, Team Goliath wasn’t focused, Team B wanted it more, etc.). We’re psychologically inclined to look for patterns and not luck, which complicates decision making.
I want a general manager that understands that luck happens. The goal is to maximize the potential of good luck, which Dumars hasn’t done.
Any time a star player doesn’t have a season-ending injury is pretty lucky. Imagine if Dirk went down in round 1 of the playoffs last year with a blown knee? Or if Jordan went out with a ruptured achilles at some point during the Bulls’ run? Luck is a HUGE factor, and staying healthy in such a fast-paced sport is part of being lucky IME.
by garrettelliott on Jan 26, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
the evidence i point to
is that he signed rip and tay to extensions well beyond their values and for far too long. he low-balled chauncey who had no other options because nobody had cap space to spend on him and he was forced to re-sign here, and then traded him for nothing. he let wallace walk because he didn’t want to pay his best player, because he had no fucking clue who his best player was. i call bullshit because he didn’t know who was responsible for the success of that team and probably still doesn’t know.
This is no "Go shitty team, go!"
But it rules. It is the anti-Tay signing of this thread.
My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)
by MrHappyMushroom on Jan 26, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Anyone notice
Did Dumars’ abilities as a GM decline after his diagnosis with Diabetes? I was unable to determine exactly when Dumars was diagnosed with a quick Google search (maybe I should have used Bing?), but I don’t recall his diagnoses being announced until after 2004.
Anywho, I’m sure it would be a stretch to tie the two together in any meaningful way. I was just curious.
by Big Z in Orlando on Jan 26, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
I'm probably one of the more anti- the anti-Prince folks here
But I thought Kriz made an excellent post. I might have added that Prince was the “iron man” in all the years we made it to the ECF but no further in large part because we had no decent backup for him, and that he could justifiably complain about having to play PF in the stupid small-ball lineups of the Curry years. But beyond that, yeah. I still hope he can contribute, and I don’t think he’s a bad guy, but this isn’t the right team for him.
I will add this. It’s a damn shame how all the guys from the “go to work” era are going out. I know, it’s a business and all, but the transition to whatever the next thing will be has be done so incredibly f’n badly it’s a tragedy.
Are you telling me to fanpost it or if i had fanposted it?
I’m not excusing Prince nor do I feel sorry for him. I don’t mind people’s hostility towards him, particularly since I’m a vocal culprit.
My intent is to say that while we may direct a lot of our anger towards the players, it is important to not lose sight who’s to blame for this mess.
My interest is this team and the guy whose job is to do what best for it. That guy ain’t Prince.
Fire Joe Dumars
by Kriz on Jan 26, 2012 11:58 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think you should make it a FanPost. I agree that it’s front page worthy. I think the fan perspective after a night like last night needs to be heard. The frustration that I have with the Pistons (including Tay) isn’t so much about Wins and Losses. It’s about the inexplicable stubbornness to change. Your post captures that really well, IMO.
You mentioned it was just stream of consciousness and that you didn’t like the structure, but I thought it was pretty damn good.
"With logic he attacks. With statistics he defends."
Just re-read this re-cap and got chills
I think you’re right, Packey, that this wasn’t the best the Pistons have played all year (they lost, after all). But it was certainly the most fun to watch. 47 more games like this, please.
I wrote a book about time travel. Buy it and/or die. http://www.thetimetravelguide.com
I would gladly take 47 more losses like this.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Love Beer? Me too! http://jimbobsbeerblog.wordpress.com/
Follow me on twitter: #JimBobsBeerBlog
To be more specific, 47 more losses of 3 points or less without Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva, or Tayshaun Prince playing.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Love Beer? Me too! http://jimbobsbeerblog.wordpress.com/
Follow me on twitter: #JimBobsBeerBlog
by The Boourns on Jan 26, 2012 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd really like that.
But peppered with 1 point victories over teams with multiple all-stars.
What's a hundred million between friends? Make a deal and let's get on with it.
by BandWagonerPaysTheDues on Jan 26, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
And conince Joe that this team is just one more multi-year contract to a marginal, one-dimensional veteran away from contending?
No way. Average defeat of 18 is much safer…
My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)
by MrHappyMushroom on Jan 27, 2012 12:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We have a few good players
To build around,I just “hope” that Joe makes a trade before the deadline getting rid of the dead weight.I hope he doesn’t let me down,because this losing is getting to me.We played well against Miami,but looked like shit against Oklahoma.
We played well against Miami,but looked like shit against Oklahoma.
Don’t forget the W vs. Portland- they’re a good team.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
Their inconsistency shows that they are a young team.
The close games and occasional victories give hope.
You prompted me to check the standings, and actually PDX is sitting at 11-8
Not all that good. I thought they were playing better ball this year, but I have only really been watching Detroit so far this season.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
Discount Double Choke, 2011 Packers.
Portland has beat some pretty good teams.
LA, Houston, OKC…they’ve lost some that maybe they should have won. Maybe they’ll pull their shit together. But I think a general consensus is they are a decent team that should have beaten the Pistons by some margin.
At least that’s what I say the general consensus should be.
Yeah we do have hope
And that’s great,but I hope this Miami game showed Joe that we can depend on our young core,and he makes a deal to get rid of the dead weight.I mean Cv only plaid like 13 mins all season that’s got to mean something right?I’m just not buying the injury he is supposed to
have.And what’s with these players missing games because of “family issues”?Something’s up here.
by Roco on Jan 27, 2012 12:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe this is just a league talking point (and I haven’t been paying very much attention to the overall league and stats) but Steve Kerr was saying last night during the Clips/Grizzlies game that every team is suffering from inconsistency. They’ll win by 20 one night and lose by 20 the next. He was blaming the shortened season, lack of practice, and back-to-back-to-backs. So even though it’s a huge issue for us, it’s not isolated to just us, thankfully.
by garrettelliott on Jan 27, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
W against Portland, Indiana, and Orlando
That’s three teams with at least 11 wins.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Love Beer? Me too! http://jimbobsbeerblog.wordpress.com/
Follow me on twitter: #JimBobsBeerBlog

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