Deja Vu in Philly: 76ers 95, Pistons 74
by Packey on Jan 29, 2012 3:40 PM EST
in Detroit Pistons Recaps
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PrintOn the back-end of a back-to-back, especially after a couple heartbreakers at home against upper echelon opponents, it's none too surprising that the 4-17 Pistons rolled over against the Atlantic Division's first place team in Philadelphia (yeah, I had to double-check -- the Sixers are 14-6 and in first place).
I mocked the fluff pub of progress in the game thread by pointing out that the Pistons only lost by 21 points when their last loss against the Sixers this season was by 23 points. Then I realized that Philly didn't have Spencer Hawes.
Hawes' absence was evident on the glass and underneath; Detroit outrebounded Philly 44-42 despite missing 14 extra shots and had 38 points in the paint to Philly's 26. But Philadelphia held the edge on fast break points (18-8), talent, and hit 9-of-15 three-pointers. Andre Iguodala had a triple-double with all 10s on his 28th birthday and at one point it was a legitimate concern the Pistons were not going to break 60 points.
The Pistons got to 74 but it took 19 points in the final six garbage minutes of the game to get there with Walker Russell, Brandon Knight, Damien Wilkins, Austin Daye, and Vernon Macklin on the court.
Greg Monroe picked up his ninth double-double of the season with 16 points (on 6-for-19 shooting) and 10 rebounds.
- It was Greg Monroe's sixth double-double in his last eight games. He also was T'd up for the first time this season, which one could see coming in recent weeks.
- Brandon Knight was 4-for-17 shooting, had five rebounds and three assists (two turnovers). In his last five games, he's shooting 26-for-58 (45-percent) and averaging 4.2 rebounds and 4.2 assists (2.4 turnovers) per game.
- The Pistons were 1-for-18 on pick-and-roll plays.
- Austin Daye with his third straight game in double figures, although six came in those junk minutes. He is 19-for-37 shooting in his last three games, though, and averaging 14 points per game in just under 30 minutes.
- In 37 minutes vs. the Sixers this year, Jason Maxiell is 9-for-15 shooting and has 12 rebounds.
- Stuckey was 3-for-9 and clearly playing hurt, which is admirable yet still hurtful to the team. But I don't think they have any other choice right now while Bynum and Gordon are out. Walker Russell saw 25 minutes, but he was 1-for-8 shooting.
- There was this, though:
- What did Jonas Jerebko do to only warrant nine minutes?
- This Iguodala dunk ... wow.
- Vernon Macklin had a nice alley-oop from Walker Russell. Look at Macklin's per 36 numbers!
- Box Score
- Roll Call: bugman222, The Boourns, Packey, TDP, Trout Jefferson, Shinons*, Lemins, OK from J, need4detroit, vernonBmackin, dandresden, garrettelliott, tads, curlyfries, Mike Payne, Sean W, heWizard, V., Skylar, Biz Markie Moon, CHayden, thesiberian, brgulker, Grant E., BIBTD, Rusty_Shackleford, MSUDersh, JumpingBlob, MrHappyMushroom, Other Matt, I like Sex, Supa Dupe, Gabe F-B, RedHopeful, Kriz
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@Keith_Langlois
Keith Langlois 76ers kiss cam just focused on Stuckey and Monroe on #Pistons bench. So Rodney gave Greg a little peck on the head. Drew a loud laugh.
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Name # of Posts The Boourns 44 Mike Payne 44 Packey 29 Lemins 21 heWizard 20 brgulker 19 tads 19 dandresden 15 bugman222 13 OK from J 13 garrettelliott 10 MrHappyMushroom 8 Rusty_Shackleford 7 Shinons* 7 BIBTD 7 V. 6 curlyfries 5 vernonBmackin 4 MSUDersh 3 need4detroit 3 Sean W 2 TDP 2 Other Matt 2 JumpingBlob 2 Gabe F-B 2 Skylar 2 thesiberian 2 Kriz 1 RedHopeful 1 Supa Dupe 1 Trout Jefferson 1 Biz Markie Moon 1 CHayden 1 Grant E. 1 I like Sex 1
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Interesting Drew Sharp Column Today
Where he discusses why the Tigers can land someone like Prince Fielder and the Pistons can’t.
Now Drew is an ok writer in my book, he likes to play Devil’s Advocate, sometimes overdoes it, but I don’t agree here for precisely this reason:
Big-time NBA free agents don’t consider Detroit an option. Never have. Never will.
NBA unrestricted free-agent stars consider the quality of nightlife and other extracurricular activities when choosing their next place of employment. Now, a lot of that has to do with NBA players usually being about three years younger than a baseball player when they reach unrestricted free agency for the first time.
Most big time NBA superstars are total knuckleheads, whose legends are propped up by the supplicating (if you prefer, fellating) media. I have always looked at a player and think, “can you win with him”? Frankly, I don’t see it with Melo and Amare (both essentially immature, one dimensional players, even worse, they don’t even compliment each other)
I wonder a lot about LBJ (whose window of opportunity appears to ride on DWade’s decreasing health)-and if Pat Riley can’t get you a ring, who can?
I won’t even discuss state of the art idiots like AI and Marbury.
Moreover, guys who Dumars built the ‘04-’05 champs around are high character guys. Even a knucklehead like Sheed had a very high basketball IQ and like Chauncey, Tay and Ben, were devout family men. Also, most pro athletes (as Sharp hints at) like playing in Detroit and living here.
So, where I think Sharp went wrong in his analysis is that individual talent alone won’t get you a ring, last time I checked, and Dumars proved this right, is that basketball is a team game. We’re seeing it proved all over the league, and consider the defending champs, Dallas, consisted of one superstar and a bunch of role players, but they played 11 deep with a savvy coach. (Sound familiar?)
The one major problem with this team is that we’re undersized and have too many people playing out of position. It’s a mistake to have JJ play the 4 where he’s a natural 3. It’s a mistake (although not as big) to have Monroe play the 5, although he would be a lot more efficient if he had a real 4 alongside him. I don’t have as much a problem with the guard rotation, as their numbers are partially a result of having zero inside out game because of the lack of size. But…I digress.
Finally, I think we’ll be much better next year. Especially if CV’s ankle requires surgery, and his contract goes to insurance and no longer counts against the cap. I think things after March 1 are going to be interesting, but of course, there’s going to be a lot of suffering until then and for a time afterwards.
I could give a flying fuck whether you follow me or not on Twitter.
Sharp's analysis went wrong when he forgot that the Tigers haven't won anything
The Tigers overpaid for a fat dude who puts up a sexy stat. His contract will end when he’s 37. His presence apparently moves Cabrera to third (although I still fail to understand why one of them isn’t being planned to DH). While it’s exciting and I’m not excited for my White Sox to face this lineup, it’s not particularly good management – overpaying for a sexy stat is pretty much what Jod did. Only with shittier players, which yielded a shitter team than the Tigers will have this year.
You know, Thome put up a higher OPS than Prince over the past two years for 20 percent of what Prince will cost next year?
You’re right that character is important, and I think even more right in talking about roles. You don’t need the most talented players on the court, you just need guys who can be really good at doing the things they need to do. But this team isn’t currently being built that way.
How many games did Thome play the last two years?
He was a part time player I believe. So his OPS is higher because of a much smaller sample size.
The true success of the Fielder move is going to be determined in the future...
not now. It’s a good move right now. With V-Mart hurt you need a bat to protect Cabrera and that is what he will do very well and even better than what V-Mart did. However, the risk arises in my eyes in the future positionality of the Tigers. How does Cabrera pan out at 3rd? How do the contracts we have now effect how we can use money in the future?
I feel that V-Mart will be the first name to be shopped. Who they get for him will play a huge key in this venture. Getting the right players at the right positions is the key. The next big thing will be drafting and shoring up a weak farm system. That’ll help net us cheap young talent to either trade or bring up to play.
So in summary, right now it’s a pretty good move considering what Fielder can bring to the table, it’s what happens after about 3-4 years that can be concerning.
I don't know to be honest.
I know Jim is a bit weird in how he uses the DH spot. He likes to use it as sort of a “kinda day off” for his older players. Keeping their bats but not making them run too much essentially. With guys like Magglio and Guillen now gone, this isn’t a big issue.
Unless they plan on signing another player to be the DH (which are a dime a dozen) this doesn’t make much sense to me.
Kind of hit on why I'm rather down on the Fielder signing
DH being a dime a dozen. It’s too easy to find a guy and tell him “Be big, swing hard, hit from the left, and give us over .800 OPS.”
Ozzie had the same idea with the DH. Part of the White Sox’s rationale with Dunn was that he could also play in the field – but if he sucks out there, is that really a good thing? Meanwhile, I always thought Inge was pretty nifty with the glove. I suppose a few doubles off Cabrera’s mitt will change Leyland’s mind pretty quickly about how to use the DH.
Inge is declining rapidly.
and Cabrera’s glove is sound enough, in fact it’s pretty good. It’s his range that is worrisome. Prince may be the same way. I haven’t watched enough of Prince to truly judge but his UZR tells me has a pretty limited range, but his fielding percentage is pretty sound.
His offense however, makes the Tigers line up SCARY good in the heart. Don’t undervalue Prince because he projects to be a DH. Of all qualified DH’s only 6 had a .800+ OPS. In fact, if Prince played in the AL he would have been the leader. Of all first basemen between both leagues, only Cabrera was better.
I could probably go further into justifying how Prince is more than just an average DH, but it’s all stuff you can look up at BYB.
Didn't mean that Prince was an average DH - he'd be an elite one
Rather, that I don’t believe he’s $15-20 million more valuable than a bargain basement one. Jim Thome, for instance, who’s currently looking for a job and played for $4.5 million last year.
without any sort of cap...
money is an afterthought in baseball. If the owner wants to spend then so be it. The only worry is how it’ll affect future spending habits. Illitch has had a history of spending big and as long as he is in control I don’t see this as a huge issue.
I just wanted Thome so he could stop being a Tiger killer anyway.
Not a huge issue, no
But I do think $338 million to three 1b/DH fellas will raise its head again in the future.
Good Luck With Shopping VMart
But even then, if Cabrera can successfully move back to 3d regularly , what a lineup the Tigers can field. Your 3-4-5 hitters…
I could give a flying fuck whether you follow me or not on Twitter.
V-Mart is gonna be an easy shop I think.
but it depends on his recovery from injury. There isn’t a team in the AL who wouldn’t want a .300 hitting DH with power who is also your backup catcher. He made the Tigers catching rotation one to be jealous of with the emergence of Avila.
Again though, recovery will be crucial.
Big-time NBA free agents don’t consider Detroit an option. Never have. Never will.
I hate that he (and other sports writers, fans) think this matters. With the outside exception of Shaq in LA, which is a Shaq-sized exception, which championship NBA teams built their core with big-time NBA free agents?
Teams should always look to build through the draft and through trades, and cap space should be used on extensions first, while free agent signings are tertiary and shouldn’t require more than the MLE. That’s how Dumars did it in 2004, that’s how winning GMs have always done it. I don’t understand why anyone would be upset that big-time free agents don’t like Detroit. That’s perfectly fine with me.
by Mike Payne on Jan 29, 2012 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"That’s perfectly fine with me"
We agree on something! Yay!
Actually, the biggest piece to the ‘04-’05 champs puzzle was a FA signing-Chauncey Billups.
But, as we have seen, signing a superstar has too often been been a loser in terms of value,
I am wondering what happens this year if Miami doesn’t win it all (which they won’t). Does Riley blow things up or give them one more year-I love DWade, but he’s past his prime now, and injury prone, and he’s the real leader of that team.
I could give a flying fuck whether you follow me or not on Twitter.
by V. on Jan 29, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
Just posted a full article about this:
http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2012/1/29/2757040/drew-sharp-suggests-big-time-nba-free-agents-wont-consider-detroit
Actually, the biggest piece to the ‘04-’05 champs puzzle was a FA signing-Chauncey Billups.
Billups was not a “big-time NBA free agent”. He was signed for less than the MLE in a free agent market that saw little to no competition for his services. He may have become a star, but he was a little known player that received a less-than-average contract from Detroit.
That's Correct
…and my point exactly.
I almost did a Fanpost about the article, but it’s Sunday and i’m lazy today. hey, at least I won’t get people exhorting me to write a post lol.
I could give a flying fuck whether you follow me or not on Twitter.
by V. on Jan 29, 2012 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
Mike Can Speak For Me Here...
He did a fine job with the article.
I could give a flying fuck whether you follow me or not on Twitter.
You Didn't Say "Sugar on Top"
so, neener, neener, neener.
I could give a flying fuck whether you follow me or not on Twitter.
you can always do a FanShot
which can be as quick as copying/pasting the link, writing a quick title and a sentence or two with your opinion on the matter. No need to do that in this case, I wrote the above article and referenced you with a credit at the end :)
It’s been a while since I had a lazy Sunday.
by garrettelliott on Jan 29, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
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