Comments on: Gossip and rumors: How Flip lost the locker room http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/ A Detroit Pistons blog Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:56:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Goodbye, Mo Evans | Detroit Bad Boys http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2567 Goodbye, Mo Evans | Detroit Bad Boys Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:05:15 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2567 [...] About three weeks ago, Martin McNeal described in a column for the Sacramento Bee an incredibly-detailed account of "how Flip Saunders lost the locker room." He described an incident in the locker room when Saunders addressed the team following Ben Wallace's decision not to re-enter the game against Orlando. The buzz is that Saunders lost a great deal of respect in the locker room when he talked about Wallace's decision and then told the team it was not going to win the championship because of incidents such as that one. [...] […] About three weeks ago, Martin McNeal described in a column for the Sacramento Bee an incredibly-detailed account of “how Flip Saunders lost the locker room.” He described an incident in the locker room when Saunders addressed the team following Ben Wallace’s decision not to re-enter the game against Orlando. The buzz is that Saunders lost a great deal of respect in the locker room when he talked about Wallace’s decision and then told the team it was not going to win the championship because of incidents such as that one. […]

]]> By: hack http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2566 hack Fri, 09 Jun 2006 09:28:46 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2566 Me too, since we're stuck with him. Me too, since we’re stuck with him.

]]> By: Carey Anderson http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2565 Carey Anderson Wed, 07 Jun 2006 22:20:48 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2565 If LB was here I don't think we would have won. I am sorry! I just don't. LB is a great coach but I think he had lost the ear of the team. Was I upset when Larry jumped ship? Yes I was but I knew there was more to the story. Boney you talk about Wade killing us this year. But this same Wade killed us last year before he got hurt. Getting hurt is part of the game, thats why I love our team because you did not here one word about Sheed's foot. But I would like to think it would have been a different outcome if he did not get hurt. Plus Wade is a better player than he was last year. He added a outside shot. I like said before Flip will be a better coach next year. Well I pray he will :) If LB was here I don’t think we would have won. I am sorry! I just don’t. LB is a great coach but I think he had lost the ear of the team. Was I upset when Larry jumped ship? Yes I was but I knew there was more to the story. Boney you talk about Wade killing us this year. But this same Wade killed us last year before he got hurt. Getting hurt is part of the game, thats why I love our team because you did not here one word about Sheed’s foot. But I would like to think it would have been a different outcome if he did not get hurt. Plus Wade is a better player than he was last year. He added a outside shot. I like said before Flip will be a better coach next year. Well I pray he will :)

]]> By: Boney http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2564 Boney Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:29:12 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2564 On a team full of grown men, the best players, the guys that the rest of the team looked up to are being accused of pouting and telling the coach to not ever talk like that again. Come on people...these are grown men. We came up SHORT all the way around. They lost when it counted... I believe Sheed was more hurt than he lead on. I saw numerous games this year on ESPN where Ben Wallace just looked aloof, like it was all just supposed to fall in his lap because he's Ben Wallace. The coach didn't make adjustments, plain and simple. Go back to the tapes of Rick Carlisle when he was leading his 50 win Pistons into the playoffs. No adjustments...when LB was the coach and a player (see Luke Walton or Brian Scalabrine or Richard Jefferson or Kobe Bryant) "got off" one game and had a great scoring game, the adjustments were made to make life difficult for them the next game/series. You didn't see that in this playoffs...Redd poured in points all over, Wade and Shaq poured it on and LeTravel and Sideshow Bob all got their points whenever they wanted them. Let's all get over ourselves and this team. LB taught great fundementals, why do you think he's been around so long? He taught the team about "team" play. I don't want to put all the blame on Flip, or even the players, but there were seriously no adjustments made at all in this series except maybe Game 5 @ Detroit. All of their losses were for similar reasons...settle for jumpers instead of banging shaq down low and drawing fouls...let Wade drive the lane...no seriously, LET Wade drive the lane. You seriously think that LB would have let Hamilton guard Wade all series? LB had Prince on Wade, and he had Hunter on Wade and that's it. Yeah Shaq's going to get his points, but like when LB was the coach, Shaq got his points and the adjustment was made so that others didn't affect the outcome of the game except for Game 2 when Kobe hit that prayer at the buzzer to take it to OT. If Flip makes adjustments next season, I say keep him. If it's the same "winning" formula, and we don't adjust our defense and/or tempo to the style of the game OR if we don't DICTATE the tempo then we will never sniff a championship again. On a team full of grown men, the best players, the guys that the rest of the team looked up to are being accused of pouting and telling the coach to not ever talk like that again. Come on people…these are grown men. We came up SHORT all the way around. They lost when it counted…

I believe Sheed was more hurt than he lead on. I saw numerous games this year on ESPN where Ben Wallace just looked aloof, like it was all just supposed to fall in his lap because he’s Ben Wallace.

The coach didn’t make adjustments, plain and simple. Go back to the tapes of Rick Carlisle when he was leading his 50 win Pistons into the playoffs. No adjustments…when LB was the coach and a player (see Luke Walton or Brian Scalabrine or Richard Jefferson or Kobe Bryant) “got off” one game and had a great scoring game, the adjustments were made to make life difficult for them the next game/series. You didn’t see that in this playoffs…Redd poured in points all over, Wade and Shaq poured it on and LeTravel and Sideshow Bob all got their points whenever they wanted them.

Let’s all get over ourselves and this team. LB taught great fundementals, why do you think he’s been around so long? He taught the team about “team” play. I don’t want to put all the blame on Flip, or even the players, but there were seriously no adjustments made at all in this series except maybe Game 5 @ Detroit. All of their losses were for similar reasons…settle for jumpers instead of banging shaq down low and drawing fouls…let Wade drive the lane…no seriously, LET Wade drive the lane. You seriously think that LB would have let Hamilton guard Wade all series? LB had Prince on Wade, and he had Hunter on Wade and that’s it. Yeah Shaq’s going to get his points, but like when LB was the coach, Shaq got his points and the adjustment was made so that others didn’t affect the outcome of the game except for Game 2 when Kobe hit that prayer at the buzzer to take it to OT.

If Flip makes adjustments next season, I say keep him. If it’s the same “winning” formula, and we don’t adjust our defense and/or tempo to the style of the game OR if we don’t DICTATE the tempo then we will never sniff a championship again.

]]> By: Carey Anderson http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2563 Carey Anderson Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:01:42 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2563 Who cares!!! Boney please be nice! lol. We all have to take some of the blame for what happened. However its hard for me to think Flip some how took away their will to win a ring by saying this or doing that.Do you think Rip said to Sheed and the boys" You guys see Flip crying in Lowes arms? Lets lose so we can get attacked and called over-rated by the media, and maybe we can get our 4th coach in 5 years." Please!!!!This year will make Flip a better coach. It is hard to step in and take over a winning team and make them better. Which I think he did. Look for Flip to make adjustments to his coaching style, for all great coaches do. Not saying he is great, but he is working on it. If we win 1 or 2 more rings with Flip running things we all will forgive and forget. The players said that LB got to much credit for their winning ways and it was them not the coach. Well they did their way this year, so maybe we can do it Flip's way next year.It should be easy for him to get the buy-in from the team next year. I know it was early in the year, but Tay did re-signed with us. That was a good sign the he liked Flip because signed a long term deal. I know Rip is ok with Flip. He had is best year as a pro. And I think Mr.Big Shot is cool with him as well. He was the only guy who really said something to the media about Flip. I think Sheed is good to just got hurt. As for Ben. Well Ben is Ben.If Mo Evans said this I pray they trade him to NY. In my eyes that was Flips guy. If you every played on a team all coaches have their guys. Flip gave this guy the mins that Carlos should have gotten but he did not make do with them. Flip had a level of trust in him and does he does this ! Thats Weak and not Piston like. Move on Mo! Who cares!!! Boney please be nice! lol. We all have to take some of the blame for what happened. However its hard for me to think Flip some how took away their will to win a ring by saying this or doing that.Do you think Rip said to Sheed and the boys” You guys see Flip crying in Lowes arms? Lets lose so we can get attacked and called over-rated by the media, and maybe we can get our 4th coach in 5 years.” Please!!!!This year will make Flip a better coach. It is hard to step in and take over a winning team and make them better. Which I think he did. Look for Flip to make adjustments to his coaching style, for all great coaches do. Not saying he is great, but he is working on it. If we win 1 or 2 more rings with Flip running things we all will forgive and forget. The players said that LB got to much credit for their winning ways and it was them not the coach. Well they did their way this year, so maybe we can do it Flip’s way next year.It should be easy for him to get the buy-in from the team next year. I know it was early in the year, but Tay did re-signed with us. That was a good sign the he liked Flip because signed a long term deal. I know Rip is ok with Flip. He had is best year as a pro. And I think Mr.Big Shot is cool with him as well. He was the only guy who really said something to the media about Flip. I think Sheed is good to just got hurt. As for Ben. Well Ben is Ben.If Mo Evans said this I pray they trade him to NY. In my eyes that was Flips guy. If you every played on a team all coaches have their guys. Flip gave this guy the mins that Carlos should have gotten but he did not make do with them. Flip had a level of trust in him and does he does this ! Thats Weak and not Piston like. Move on Mo!

]]> By: John http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2562 John Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:14:21 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2562 How was Lowe consoling Flip exactly? Did Saunders have his head in his hands with Lowe patting him on the back saying everything will be okay? What exactly is meant by "consoling"? I'm not denying any of this. I think this is a very true and reasonable point that the Sacramento writer is making. I also think that it's 7000% obvious that his source is Mo Evans. And since he's basically been Flip's guy throughout the season, it's kind of surprising that he would leak out such a damning incident to the public. How was Lowe consoling Flip exactly? Did Saunders have his head in his hands with Lowe patting him on the back saying everything will be okay? What exactly is meant by “consoling”?

I’m not denying any of this. I think this is a very true and reasonable point that the Sacramento writer is making. I also think that it’s 7000% obvious that his source is Mo Evans. And since he’s basically been Flip’s guy throughout the season, it’s kind of surprising that he would leak out such a damning incident to the public.

]]> By: John http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2561 John Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:08:57 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2561 Couldn't you argue that the incident says more about the players than Flip? If you pull off chickensh!t behavior like that, you're giving the finger to your teammates as much as your coach. Most teams aren't going to win titles if you're leader and best defender has that kind of fallback plan when things don't go his way (not that I actually think he'll do it again). What the hell's up with a veteran saying (paraphrasing) "Don't ever say that again!" Seriously I don't know. Was it said in front of the whole team? Was it overflowing anger from a bad loss and Ben's ugly incident? Did the player somehow think all those experienced players would get mentally rattled after Flip's comment. How did Flip exactly word his comment: "You're not going to win a title if you guys pull crap like this" or "This is exactly why we're not gonna win the championship." The latter version is more risque than the former. Couldn’t you argue that the incident says more about the players than Flip? If you pull off chickensh!t behavior like that, you’re giving the finger to your teammates as much as your coach. Most teams aren’t going to win titles if you’re leader and best defender has that kind of fallback plan when things don’t go his way (not that I actually think he’ll do it again).

What the hell’s up with a veteran saying (paraphrasing) “Don’t ever say that again!” Seriously I don’t know. Was it said in front of the whole team? Was it overflowing anger from a bad loss and Ben’s ugly incident? Did the player somehow think all those experienced players would get mentally rattled after Flip’s comment.

How did Flip exactly word his comment: “You’re not going to win a title if you guys pull crap like this” or “This is exactly why we’re not gonna win the championship.” The latter version is more risque than the former.

]]> By: Boney http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2560 Boney Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:26:19 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2560 Ignacio, You mean a taste of only 16 technical fouls instead of setting a new league record? Or a taste of the Conference Finals for 3 consecutive years instead of the draft lottery? Which is it? Ignacio,

You mean a taste of only 16 technical fouls instead of setting a new league record? Or a taste of the Conference Finals for 3 consecutive years instead of the draft lottery?

Which is it?

]]> By: ignacio http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2559 ignacio Wed, 07 Jun 2006 05:44:26 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2559 I used to like Detroit but I couldn't help rooting against them because of Rasheed Wallace. This year everyone you all got just a little taste of the stuff we went through here in Portland. Just a tiny little taste. I used to like Detroit but I couldn’t help rooting against them because of Rasheed Wallace. This year everyone you all got just a little taste of the stuff we went through here in Portland. Just a tiny little taste.

]]> By: JackDutch http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2558 JackDutch Wed, 07 Jun 2006 03:24:48 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2558 Sorry, Ree. No offense meant to Canadians who aren't taking free shots at the Pistons. In fact, there are a lot of Californians out here that would love to move to the Great White North. Good move on Canada's part not to let them in. And there's no way the Raptors move out of that teal phase until they change their name. I remember when Isiah came onto NBA on NBC and tried to spin the genius of the mascot choice. Comedy gold. Sorry, Ree. No offense meant to Canadians who aren’t taking free shots at the Pistons. In fact, there are a lot of Californians out here that would love to move to the Great White North. Good move on Canada’s part not to let them in.

And there’s no way the Raptors move out of that teal phase until they change their name. I remember when Isiah came onto NBA on NBC and tried to spin the genius of the mascot choice. Comedy gold.

]]> By: Ree http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2557 Ree Wed, 07 Jun 2006 02:33:33 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2557 JD! i took offence to that! sheesh lol no not all Canadians *suck/idiots*. come on lay off the Raptors lol they're a poor mans pistons (you know still stuck in the teal era). lol as for Coach well he's just special, most likely a heats fan. those heat fans came out of hiding in Windsor this year lol. JD! i took offence to that! sheesh lol

no not all Canadians *suck/idiots*. come on lay off the Raptors lol they’re a poor mans pistons (you know still stuck in the teal era). lol
as for Coach well he’s just special, most likely a heats fan. those heat fans came out of hiding in Windsor this year lol.

]]> By: JackDutch http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2556 JackDutch Wed, 07 Jun 2006 00:38:09 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2556 Do all canadians type like idiots? Although I assume he knows suck when he sees suck as a Raptors fan. Do all canadians type like idiots? Although I assume he knows suck when he sees suck as a Raptors fan.

]]> By: Boney http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2555 Boney Wed, 07 Jun 2006 00:29:55 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2555 Well guys, I guess we should just accept coach's poorly spelled reasoning as to why we lost as our gospel. No more complaining bcoz we suck. Well guys, I guess we should just accept coach’s poorly spelled reasoning as to why we lost as our gospel. No more complaining bcoz we suck.

]]> By: coach http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2554 coach Wed, 07 Jun 2006 00:11:48 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2554 detroit fans shd just accept the fact that the pistons lost bcoz they suck not because of the coach. their fans shd. just accept that.don't look for reasons, losers ! detroit fans shd just accept the fact that the pistons lost bcoz they suck not because of the coach. their fans shd. just accept that.don’t look for reasons, losers !

]]> By: Matt Watson http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2553 Matt Watson Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:14:22 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-06-06/gossip-and-rumors-how-flip-lost-the-locker-room/#comment-2553 Tom, thanks for pointing that out. That's an interesting theory, especially considering a lot of people lately (myself included) have predicted Evans will be dealt in the offseason. He may feel he has nothing to lose by talking. Tom, thanks for pointing that out. That’s an interesting theory, especially considering a lot of people lately (myself included) have predicted Evans will be dealt in the offseason. He may feel he has nothing to lose by talking.

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