You’ll have to forgive me if it takes a moment to catch up after being out of the internet’s reach for the last two weeks. I only found out about Ben Wallace’s departure late last night, and perhaps I haven’t gleaned the full story from ESPN and internet reports yet. Based upon the reports I have read, the Pistons might as well sit out the upcoming season, since — without Ben — they apparently stand no chance. And that’s ridiculous.
Now, I’ll admit, the news is shocking, even to a Ben critic like me.
Yes. Ben Wallace was an icon for the team and played a large role in the team’s success over the past five seasons.
Yes. The Pistons are cap-strapped and overly reliant upon the development of younger players going into ‘06-07.
But don’t be fooled into thinking the schedule was going to be much easier with Ben in the mix for ‘06. The Pistons’ days of dominating the Eastern Conference were put to a quick end this past season. And the current cast with starting 5 intact was sporting a suddenly aging frontcourt and a questionable bench. And they barely escaped Cleveland before being humbled by Miami. Cleveland?
Would signing an aging and offensively inept center to a ridiculous $15 million per deal have allowed the Pistons in ‘07 to become anything more than what they were last season, #2 or 3 in the conference? And if forced to choose between a) an entertaining ‘06-07 run with the ol’ Boys in Blue, or b) a contract extension for Chauncey Billups, the team’s best player and the best hope for a return to championship form, are you telling me that you’d choose the Conference Finals and Ben for one more year and then possibly…nothing?
Face it, Ben was an icon in Detroit, and as such, his loss will tend to be overstated. Just as Steve Yzerman’s offensive contributions to the Red Wings paled in comparison to his sentimental value, Ben was the face (or…fro) that inspired the Palace faithful. Those replacing his contributions will not have nearly the recognition,
Oh, and before you start preaching to me about intangibles, let’s remember that Ben’s mood wasn’t exactly stellar this season either; his actions in Orlando and beyond couldn’t have done much good for the lockerroom. Look, you can call it wishful thinking; call it revisionist history; call it damage control. But even the strongest of Ben Wallace fans cannot deny that his on-court measureables were dwindling. And if his leadership was waning as well, then his value to the Pistons was in steep decline.
Now don’t get me wrong; I’m not at all happy with the way things have played out. While I don’t mind Ben (@ $60M/4) moving on, his moving to a Central Division rival will hurt more in the short term while he’s still a serviceable starter. Unfortunately for the Pistons, Chicago was in a much better position to carry Ben’s bloated contract for the foreseeable future, since several of their young up-in-comers are still playing on first or second contracts (well below their open-market value). The Pistons, a team based mostly upon veterans rather than young talent, are far too top-heavy in salary to overpay for Ben’s golden years.
And there is the aforementioned matter of resigning Chauncey after this season. Chauncey, after his ‘05-06 breakout, will be one of the hottest commodities going into the ‘07 offseason provided nothing drastic happens to affect his stock. Should the Pistons show signs of further decline this season, just how much will Chauncey want to return, especially if his hometown Nuggets are making a push? It is one thing to have the right money to sign your star; it is quite another to have the right situation to entice them, and Joe D will have to do his best yet in order to keep the Pistons as an attractive locale for free agents.
No doubt, this is an offseason of flux, but it is not the end. All is not lost. The team’s most recognizeable face was arguably it’s third or fourth most valuable player. And while the Pistons will not be title favorites next season after this past postseason debacle, they should still have enough to finish significantly higher than many expect.
But leave those silly-ass fake ‘fros and inflatable Bens behind.
That’s all Bull-shit now.
Miami, Chicago, Cleveland, and New Jersey…in that order.
How is that possible. Chicago and cleveland are in the same division. If I’m correct it cant be that way with the seedings. It would have to be Miami, Chicago, New jersey, and Cleveland.
Matt, Anthony was going by power ranking, but you are right — the seedings would have to be swapped to allow for the division leaders to take the top 3.
I’m glad the Pistons will be going into 06-07 as the underdawgs … they seem to like that better.
It looks like they’re also going to be forced to play Delfino since they spent most of what they had available for Nazr.
Hi my name is ben wallace I have no offense, I shoot free throws worse then old grandmas at 27 percent and my wrist is fucked up beyond repair and Im turning 32 soon and my defensive stats have declined steadily each year. I also am a cry baby and refuse to enter games and complain publicly to the press about my gripes with the team. Want to pay me 60 million?
Fair enough. There aren’t many Pistons’ fans who think that the Pistons should have shelled out $60 mil for Ben, but the big question is why Joe backpedaled so hard on his (old) plan for the future of this team. After letting Darko and Arroyo go (both with manageable contracts next year) the Pistons are now looking for a post-player of the future and a point guard who can push the tempo…
Especially in retrospect: does anybody think the Pistons wouldn’t have gone just as far this season if they had given Darko and Delfino 20 minutes a game and lost another 10 games? It would be much more comforting thinking that this was the season to see if Darko could be an NBA starter rather than hoping that Nazr is a pleasant surprise - oh, and the two of them will make almost exactly the same salary.
Dumars kept emphasizing that there had to be a backup plan in case Ben did get the kind of offer he did. Was he planning on the Bulls including Tyson Chandler in a sign-and-trade? Did he think that they were a lock for Przybilla?
Nobody’s hating on Nazr, but it’s hard to see how there is a long-term plan here.
My thoughts exactly, Satchel. It’s really easy to make the case against Ben getting 60 million. But that’s where Dumars put himself. He cleared out salary and young talent so he could sign Ben Wallace. The way it worked out was giving Ben more than 52m (it wouldn’t have taken a full 60m to stay) was a bad idea and letting him leave for nothing was a bad idea. Joe Dumars took some wrong turns long before July 1st. The Pistons were left with no good solution because the plan all along was faulty.
But the case against Ben is not as easy as everybody is making it out to be. 32 years of age, as any athlete who’s played through their thirties can attest, is not noticeably different than 30. The real difference isn’t felt until after 35, generally. It will be interesting to see the rate of Ben’s decline, but he’s not going to drop off a cliff. And the case against Ben is easy to make using stats. I’m not a big intangibles guy but Ben Wallace does a ton that does not show up in the stats - more than anyone else. He’s not worth 60 million but the Pistons starting five were greater than the sum of their parts. Cutting out Ben and injecting Nazr is going to result in more than a few less rebounds, block shots and steals. The part about Ben turning into a dick at the end I agree with.
Joe D needs his mojo back.
I agree with both of your criticisms of Joe; however, I think in this case it is necessary to look at the the lead-up (trading Darko and Arroyo) and the offseason as two separate transactions. Sure, they were connected, but they weren’t completed in unison, nor were they completed amidst the same outlook. Detroit was the best team in a decade when they made that trade; now, even with Ben, they’d be fighting just to get back to the Conference Finals.
Did Joe make mistakes in dealing Arroyo and Darko? Of course — you’ll find no argument on DBB over that deal; both Matt and I had problems with it from the beginning.
But does that trade necessitate the resigning of Ben for far more than he is worth? Of course not. It would have compounded mistakes already made and handicapped the team past this season. As for Ben’s decline, there’s no need to wait and see - we’re already in the midst of it. And from the articles I’ve read, people are still lamenting the loss of Ben, version ‘04, whereas the current version is just a shadow.
I agree with the setiments so far. Ben was already declining, but the Pistons still needed him. He only came out with energy in the Heat series in games 2 and 5, which were the only ones Detroit won. He’ll be tough to replace, but it seems like the Pistons have needed to replace him since at least the beginning of the playoffs.
“But leave those silly-ass fake ‘fros and inflatable Bens behind.
That’s all Bull-shit now.”
Hahahaha. Fantastic ending. Good piece.
I say we sign Olowakandi to the low-level for a year. He’ll play his ass off to get a better contract the year after. When he’s motivated he’s not bad, and for this one year, he’ll be motivated.
Out of everything you said in this article, one thing bothers me: don’t ever bash Stevie Y! The Captain is a darn good man and his offensive statistics are far from lacking. He hadn’t contributed as much offensively in his later years, but he had 6 seasons over 100 points, and that’s not too shabby. There’s a guy who got drafted by the Wings and spent all 22 years with the team. I know it was just for analogy’s sake, but when Stevie Y is dissed it’ll always get a rise out of me.
Bull-shit…. oh Ian.
This is as underdog as it’s gonna be…. Better be careful what they wish for next time. hehe…
How’s signing bonzi looking like???
Nice post.
Will the Bulls turn really strong?I can’t agree so.
They have a lot of promising guys,who are so defferent from Ben.I don’t think they’ll make a team.
Bobby, don’t take me the wrong way. I have neverending respect for The Captain, but he was much more valued sentimentally than offensively in the last few seasons. At his peak, he was amazing. Sorry for any confusion on that one — Stevie Y is a great one.
It’s definitely a valid assertion that the Pistons wouldn’t be contenders even with Ben in the lineup, but make no mistake - the Pistons are DEFINITELY not contenders with a Nazr Mohammed replacing him. This isn’t the worst that could happen, in terms of the impact on the Detroit’s regular-season record, but “Pistons will be alright”, no more and no less. A bubble playoff team from a championship pretender in one fell swoop.
And this trust in Big Head Billups is killing me. If the Pistons know what’s good for them, they’ll decline to match any offer made to that *($#&*@&.
Nice work Ian. Happy to have you back.
Very well said.
Will we win 64 games with Nazr replacing Ben? No, we will not.
But will the loss of Ben hurt us in the playoffs? No, I don’t think it will. Playing 4 on 5 in the offensively in the playoffs was such a tremendous drag on the team. When we came against good defensive teams (or even bad, inspired defensive teams) we were hopeless with Wallace in there. I believe we are a better playoff basketball team without Big Ben and remain excited for the upcoming season.
“Bubble playoff team”? C’mon. Pistons are still a very strong contender. They’re no longer the clear favorite, but for my money are still in the top group of teams, along with Miami, San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix, New Jersey and maybe Cleveland. The top’s just a lot more muddled now, that’s all.
WHAT DOES THE TEM THINK ABOUT THIS,LIKE…………..CHAUNCEY,TAY, RIP, AND SHEED?
TEAM*
C’mon Boris, haven’t you got ANYTHING good to say at all? It’s all doomsday prophecies, seems like. We had a surprisingly GREAT year this year, and even if Ben were back, I doubt we’d do as well next year.
And you never know with Nazr. While I don’t have too much trust in him, for all we know he might love his role and flourish in it. Just look at our Core Four now. They’ve all improved and fit together really nicely. Nazr might not be Ben-shaped, but perhaps if Flip throws a little glue on his edges, he’ll hold us together just fine.
One day Diaw comes and praises the moves, another day he comes in and says how worthless the Pistons are. It’s amazing…
Look at the East. Just because LeBron took Detroit to 7 games doesn’t mean that his team will be all that much better next season. Much like the Heat and an older Shaquille next season, the Cavs have virtually no low post game without the possibility of Drew Gooden, and a slow Zydrunas. The only team I’d specifically worry about would be the Nets (they had a great draft), the Bulls (because of the run they gave Miami), and the Bucks (with Villenueva). The Bulls have awesome depth with their youth. The Cavs still need a low post presence (say what you want about LeBron being in the paint).
Detroit will make the playoffs unless major injuries happen to the team, or if it’s blown up by the trade deadline.
Also…
With the new cap restrictions set by the latest CBA it makes it virtually impossible for a player to play for any other team than the team that drafted him. I think it’s absurd that there are restrictions with the amount of years and the amount of money you can offer a guy, you do not see these restrictions in the NFL with their cap. I think it’s absolutely ridiculous that the Pistons (or any other team) that loses their centerpiece can’t turn around and offer a FA the same offer, if not more. I’ve had this complaint ever since the lockout and the new CBA….It handcuffs teams that wish to compete every year, all the while you have teams like Atlanta in the draft lottery every year. Dwyane Wade can’t go wherever he wants, he basically has to sign with the Heat to get paid. LeBron can’t go to NY or whereever without some extravagant sign and trade crap that’s just ridiculous.
Tim, get off Ian’s nuts.
Can Nazr replace Ben? No. But he doesn’t have to. I think McDyess will get the lion’s share of Ben’s minutes. The defense will suffer but we’ll have five legitimate scorers (all capable of putting up 20+ on any given night) on the floor.
For a long time, the Pistons have had Ben Wallace as a crutch. They relied on him to get the rebounds, they relied on him to defend anybody who got past them, they relied on him to provide energy to a team with a laid-back makeup.
Maybe losing that crutch is a good thing.
If the guards have to crash the boards and work harder on their men, good. If the team has to share the load more at both ends, good. And if the “six starters” mentality that’s hindered this team’s player development like a slowly contracting ice floe for two years is finally broken up, that’s really good.
The cliche is that teams without their star often rise to make up for the loss collectively. And Ben was hardly the only star this team had. Look for the naysayers to make an about-face during the upcoming 52-54 win season. And look for Ben to find that it isn’t much fun to have Scott Skiles chewing on his ass every day.
Let me start by saying NAZR MOHAMMED IS NOT BETTER THAN BEN WALLACE.
Ben played almost exactly 2x the MPG of Nazr. In that time he averaged:
11.3 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 1.78 steals, 2.21 blocks, 7.3 ppg
Double Nazr’s stats:
10.4 rebounds, 1 assist, .5 steal, 1.2 blocks and 12.4 ppg
It’s clear Nazr is not the defender Wallace is, but keep in mind he’s trying to fill the shoes of a man who played the most relelentless defense for a generation. Defensive ferocity is EXPECTED of the Pistons center and I think that we may see some improved D out of Nazr.
Great observations, LanierFan. I think Boris is just jealous that Billups has a better bobblehead than he does.
Lanier said “And if the “six starters” mentality that’s hindered this team’s player development like a slowly contracting ice floe for two years is finally broken up, that’s really good.”
This is where I see the positive in all of this. No longer can the Pistons of the last few years go about business as usual i.e. use the same 7-8 player rotation for seven months. One person who’ll be (hopefully) greatly impacted by Ben’s departure is Jason Maxiell. Like most of the non-starters, Max hardly saw the floor. But when he did he seemed to do something good - often a nasty throw down. He tries to dunk everything (which is awesome) but he’s also confident in his turnaround jumper - Max’s offensive skills are definitely better than Ben’s. He is shorter and he’ll never defend like Ben but he’s got a nice wingspan and he was a shot blocker in college (3/gm). I don’t know if he’ll be able to defend 5’s for long stretches but the league is moving to small ball, right? Anyway, Joe said he was a lot like Ben Wallace when he drafted him so let’s see him do his thing.
I’m also interested in seeing what Delfino can do with a consistent 15-20 minutes a game. Detroit should approach the regular season like Miami did. Use it to create a deep rotation, increase productivity of the younger players, and establish chemistry. They have enough talent to make the playoffs without obsessing about their seed. Improving from within would be something new for Detroit but that’s what has to happen.
No worries Ian, I wasn’t really mad about it. I was more trying to ignore what’s going on with the Pistons.
As for the eastern conference:
1) I still don’t think the Heat were the best team in the conference this year. But if we learned anything, it’s that officiating can take you places talent can’t. Don’t get me wrong, the Pistons shot themselves in the foot. But Dallas was clearly superior and were about to go up 3-0 when all of a sudden EVERY SINGLE CALL went Miami’s way. Throw in Game 5 (maybe the most lopsided officiating I’ve ever seen in an NBA game) and Game 6 (where the game was close and then a couple phantom fouls were called) and Stern was rejoicing that he didn’t have to hand the trophy to Cuban. Anyhow, the Heat will still be alright, but Shaq will clearly lose a little more of his game.
2) The Bulls actually intrigue me a lot. They do have a couple guys who can score, which takes the pressure off of Ben offensively. I also think they’d be willing to run some plays to get him open layups and dunks on occasion. That’s something Flip refused to do as the season went on. I don’t think Ben’s game will ever be as good as it was, and I definitely don’t think the Bulls will be #2 in the conference.
3) I think the Cavs and Pistons are pretty even. The Cavs will rely on LeBron with NO supporting cast and the Pistons will rely on a few good guys to collectively play like a star. But the Pistons clearly have NO depth at this point. I hope Delfino looks better this year, because I thought he was atrocious last season.
LanierFan … great point about the six starters mentality. LB fell in love with it and so did Flip, and they both drew a line after those six which considerably made them look much shallower than they likely were. Of course, the remarkable health of those guys had a lot to do with it, too, but that doesn’t mean you have to play all those guys all those minutes in every meaningless regular season game just to compile wins. In recent history, the Pistons should know better than anyone that best record hardly equates to titles.
Ben left he’s gone, he says it was time for a change. Money talks, louder than fans cheer!
Since Detroit has no cap room at this point, plus they have cheap-ass owner who won’t pay the luxury tax, Flip has to develop the bench from within. There’s a number of thnigs you can blame Flip for, but utterly ignoring the bench guys was his biggest mistake.
Nazr will likely start, so Dyess and Hunter are still coming off the bench. Trading Mo Evans plus the public support from Dumars seemingly gaurantees Delfino 10-15 mins. at the start of the season, and maybe he can live up to the imaginary hype a lot of people have spontaneously/randomly thrown his way. Since a 9-10 man rotation is what most fans think is ideal, I have to think that either Maxiell, Blaylock, or Amir Johnson will see a decent chunk of minutes.
Saunders knows he made a mistake in underutilizing the bench last year, so common sense has to take over, and hopefully this team sees a 9-10 man rotation.
Wallace, T. Thomas, Deng, Nocioni, Gordon, Hinrich, Sefolosha, Brown, Duhon…………..thanks Isiah!
I loved Big Ben in Detroit, but this definitely isn’t the end for the Pistons. Chicago can have him, but he won’t make them spectacular. They were already a great defensive team, all he does is add to their defensive strength. I’m not going to miss his non-clutch-offensive-whatsoever-presence at all. He can’t dribble, can’t shoot, and can’t shoot a free-throw to save his life. And, he’s 32. Chicago can have him. The Pistons may even be better with Nazr. The Bulls will not be the beast in the East. Pistons or Cavs will reign supreme. Hey, is there any way for Detroit to get KG?