Something happened between Ben Wallace and a few heckling Piston fans late in Game 2; that much is known. Whether it was an innocuous back-and-forth with fans or a manifestation of Ben’s frustration with this series is up to interpretation.
The Detroit News‘ rather dismissing take:
Wallace was in the crosshairs of hecklers behind the Bulls bench, as they chanted “$60 million” in the final minutes of the game. Wallace signed a $60 million contract with the Bulls last off-season.
Wallace subtly acknowledged the hecklers twice by holding a hand up and rubbing his thumb, index and middle fingers together — signifying he has some bucks. He also egged on the crowd by waving at them from the bench, inviting more abuse.
And now, from the Chicago Sun Times:
With the outcome long decided and Ben Wallace anchored to the bench, a few fans sitting near the Bulls’ bench in the Palace of Auburn Hills couldn’t resist the temptation to pour salt in the wounds of the former face of the Detroit Pistons.
”Sixty mill-ion! … 60 mill-ion! … 60 mill-ion! …,” they chanted at Wallace with malicious delight.
He ignored the hecklers for a while, but then held up his left hand and rubbed his fingers together, a move that only could be interpreted as a show-me-the-money gesture. Then during a timeout a short while later, Wallace had a mild exchange with the hecklers before a Palace security guard came over in an attempt to defuse the situation by quieting down the loudmouths a little.
And then there’s the Sun Times’ Rick Telander (one of my favorite people):
Wallace was rooted on the pine while drunk fans behind the bench chanted, ”Sixty Million!”
Wallace stood and faced the screamers and angrily waved his hand at them in disgust, prompting security to go into the stands and caution the fans.
His look said he might have strangled somebody if he could have.
As a Pistons fan? Whatever.
But as a Bulls fan, either way the situation has to eat at you. Either Ben Wallace (as a Bull) is devoid of passion and in the waning moments of another blowout loss is playing coy with the Palace faithful… Or his most violent exertion of energy during Game 2 came from the bench rather than the paint.
If anyone had a better view of the action than TNT or Matt’s seats provided, give us your take in the comments.
Underdog message holds true [Detroit News]
Big Ben comes up… small [Chicago Sun Times]
Bulls double-exposed [Chicago Sun Times]
If you’re a Bulls fan you’re more concerned about Gordon-Deng-Hinrich’s play than reading Ben Wallace’s mind.
OMG…the infamous Paxson Jackson. It’s alright for you to come in our blogs but not for any Pistons fan to comment on your little blog? hypocrite
By the way it is alright for you to post comments on here. I am just speaking for myself but, I like the back and forth with opposing fans. Unlike you guys over there. Of course when it is civil, and doesn’t lower down to name calling and stupid stuff like that.
First of all, it’s not his blog it’s my blog. And Pistons fans are welcome but don’t be a Pistons fan AND an arrogant ass. That’s just too many character flaws.
Look, no hyperlink on my name.
when bloggers act tough, nobody wins. nba cares about your blogging community.
Okay, my fault.
Look at it this way… Would we (the Bulls) rather be paying Ben Wallace $10+million a year or Tyson Chandler the $10+ million a year he was making? I’d rather have Ben. In that sense, even though those were 2 separate transactions; together last summer, its been a good move for the Bulls. Tyson has proven over 2 years that he is useless in the playoffs and offensively is the equivalent of Ben Wallace. And he wouldnt have had the season he has had if he were still with the Bulls anyway.
Ian, give the Ben-hate regurgitation a rest, will you? It’s been a year. GET OVER IT, MAN. Anytime anyone writes something critical about him, you have to get out the highlight marker.
It’s tired and old. Were you one of the drunk dorks chanting “sixty-million”?
The guy was a huge part of putting a championship banner in the rafters for Detroit and established an ethic and a culture that still constitute big parts of the team identity. The only story here is how lame some so-called Pistons fans are behaving toward him.
Why not have both? P.J. Brown made $8.5 million to do … I’m not exactly sure what.
I’m with MJD on this one:
http://www.aolsportsblog.com/2007/05/07/booing-big-ben-bad-form/
I booed Ben Wallace last night. I still love the guy and what he did for the Pistons, but he’s not a member of the team anymore. Simple as that.
As for the above post, while it was definitely written through red/white/blue colored glasses, it merely attempts to frame the debate that the Detroit AND Chicago papers have run with.
As for being “tired and old”… Ben’s play (and comparing/contrasting with his play for the Pistons) is a major storyline in a series that is quickly running out of them, and it is a valid story at that. Does Ben’s allegiance now lessen his contributions then? No, of course not. But do his contributions then lessen Piston fans’ desire for his team to lose this series? Again, no.
He’s being treated like an opponent in the playoffs.
Mr B. Wallace had been slipping well before he put on a Bulls uniform. I felt that he had lost a lot of passion during last year and didn’t quite have the same hustle to his game.
As for this:
“Look at it this way… Would we (the Bulls) rather be paying Ben Wallace $10+million a year or Tyson Chandler the $10+ million a year he was making?”
I don’t think that anyone disputes that Wallace is the marquee player in that deal, HOWEVER your point is a little disingenuous in the sense that Wallace is earning $16+ million per year while Chandler is $10+ in THAT context and given the year Chandler had (9.5 ppg 12.4 rpg 1.8 bpg) as opposed to Wallace (6.4 ppg 10.7 rpg 2 bpg) I would say that their production is basically the same. The big differences come in age 32 as opposed to 24, height 6-9 as opposed to 7-1 and the differences in contracts as I have already pointed out. This Ben Wallace deal would have made a great deal of sense had he brought his work ethic of 2-3 years ago but alas for them he has not. I’m afraid to say that he has the rest of this post season and the next to earn his $60 million (in the form of a championship) because shortly thereafter he will become a large financial albatross around the bulls necks.
I feel like the crowd should give Ben a standing ovation during the player introductions.
Once the game starts, however, boo him out of the arena!
If you admire Ben Wallace’s ferocity against every opponent, you can’t criticize his old fans for the same approach.
Besides … you Chicago punks brought it on yourselves with all that crowing in the offseason. Thought you’d weakened us by subtraction, eh? Back to the drawing board.
I read this suggestion maybe here or at NeedforSheed, but I like the idea of playing the Big Ben Gong whenever he screws up. Not only will this incite the crowd to cheer against him, but I think it will get in his and his teammate’s heads. Mental Warfare wins as many games as physical prowess.
Ben Wallace left under less-than-ideal conditions. Ben left in arguably more dubious of a situation than Grant Hill.
If Billups leaves Detroit, I certainly hope he doesn’t finish his Detroit run with a laughable set of games and do an about face to what everyone would expect from his persona.
If you, as a player on a Detroit team, leave, then it’s wise to do it with an amicable parting. For my own personal preference, watching Grant Hill’s career, post-Detroit, was delicious karma.
From a set of personnel moves, I didn’t agree with Chicago’s chain of deals from the start of the Ben Wallace free agent acquisition.
Chicago had enough cap space, prior to Ben’s deal, that allowed a number of interesting sign-and-trades to take place. Their first move was to eat the rest of their space with a guy who brought more defense to what already was a Bulls strength. That was a defensive upgrade for Chicago, but I waited for the other shoe to drop - a quality player on offense who would help balance the team into a championship contender.
Tyson Chandler became redundant, post-Wallace-sign. However, dealing for P.J. Brown, to me, was somewhat puzzling. The Bulls essentially added an older version of Ben Wallace from that deal. I suppose this was cap-future-related, but the next move surprised more than enough observers.
Drafting Aldridge, then trading Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas, to add a thinner and younger version of Ben Wallace, added another player similar to what they parted with in Chandler. Maybe Thomas isn’t as injury prone, and maybe Tyrus has a better ceiling for potential on offense. However, having Ben Wallace with a large contract and a 2-3 year window makes the draft necessary for a player who might be a better PG, SG, SF . . . or a guaranteed scorer at PF or C. The 2006 Draft was considered rather weak for star potential, but people knew who Brandon Roy was. Other possibles were Foye and Gay. Could Chicago have packaged the 2nd pick to a team to receive a points-minded veteran? It’s possible. It didn’t happen.
Apparently, between J.R. Smith (from the Tyson Chandler deal) and Ben Gordon, one wouldn’t receive playing time. Then, J.R. Smith is traded to Denver for draft picks and . . . Howard Eisley?
Everyone thought that big man would have been Kevin Garnett or Pau Gasol, near the trade deadline. Those teams apparently wanted more than Chicago was willing to deal, but at that point, it’s last-chance-for-a-real-need-Chicago-Bulls-time. Chicago should have pulled the trigger. The next 2-3 years of draft picks would have been worth a Gasol or Garnett. Chicago had to live with this need, but who’s to say it was impossible to fill at this year’s trade deadline?
As a Detroit Pistons fan, the idea of Kevin Garnett or Paul Gasol on Chicago, down the stretch . . . it made me very nervous for the final set of days before the all-star-break. When nothing happened, I breathed a sigh of relief. Detroit, at least, would have a shot against Chicago, should they face in the playoffs.
The KG- or PG-in-Chicago thing made me nervous, too. So did the rumors that Cleveland was going after Mike Bibby. thank god they have GMs that are scared to deal.
Sauce, players come and go. Get over it. As far as your analysis of Paxson’s recent moves go, well… it sucks. Tyrus Thomas and P.J. Brown aren’t “versions of Ben Wallace.” Wallace is about as unique as a player can get. Thomas and Peej aren’t exactly cookie cutter power forwards either.
“Apparently, between J.R. Smith (from the Tyson Chandler deal) and Ben Gordon, one wouldn’t receive playing time. Then, J.R. Smith is traded to Denver for draft picks and . . . Howard Eisley?”
Ben Gordon is really good, and only in his 3rd year. J.R. Smith is really bad. I’ll support that argument if you really want me too, but trust me: Ben Gordon is coming off of a season comparable to Ray Allen’s, and J.R. Smith was benched in the playoffs for losing a game all by himself (he sucked in the regular season too). Howard Eisley was waived as soon as the trade was official.
Pooh-pooh away, sir, but please be accurate.
The only thing that sucks around detroitbadboys.com is a Chicago Bulls fan bearing a first name synoymous with the last name of a lousy front office executive.
I was accurate, so you must be crazy. You also fill your retorts with bull crap, so that’s fitting. That’s also the kind of chump I like to see . . . easy to animate. Dance, fool, dance!
Speaking of the munchkin you defend, that Ben Gordon guy, you might want to rush on down to Scott Skiles and tell him to chew out Gordon a bit . . . that seems to be what Skiles is best at . . . maybe also tell Skiles to tell Gordon to cut down on the turnovers. Get your tinfoil hat on to protect you from enemy vibes, call up Skiles on your Dick Tracy 2-way wrist radio, and let that bald bulldog know you’re comin’ down, as soon as possible!
I implore Chicago to keep Ben Gordon. Height disadvantage . . . turnover-prone . . . average to below-average defensive skill . . . when neutralized by a defender, becomes a liability . . . sounds great. Make sure to tell your favorite front office fool to re-up Ben Gordon for the max.
And you probably wouldn’t get over a Chicago exit in this series, ‘cuz you’re the kind of guy who’d hop on over to a Detroit Pistons blog and give it all kinds of yap when someone might actually mention the Bulls.
We’ll disagree, but you’ll still be the guy trying to tell the world how the Bulls should be mentioned in responses. Plus, I’ll still be laughing.
Oh, and by the way, that “getting over it” is an order best left to the blowhards at blogabull.com . . . I figured Chicago was going to give Detroit serious difficulty in the playoffs, but the only difficulty so far is having to endure spill-over from mouthy moronic fans of the team that plays in the Windy Anus. The jibbering and snotting and bleating going on over there . . . fantastic comedy. Keep up the excellent biting of pillows.
Also, that guy you mention as such a special player . . . he is.
Read this for good measure.
http://www.wzzm13.com/sports/pro_basketball/basketballsports_article.aspx?storyid=53059
Tarquin-
I’ve seen both Chandler and Wallace play with the Bulls and trust me I’d take Wallace in a second. In terms of smartness they are the complete opposite. Not everything shows up in the stat line either. How bout tipped balls for second and third opportunities? How bout staying out of foul trouble? How about stronger body? Most importantly how about playoff experience? Chandler could not guard Shaq last playoffs, while Ben did much better without getting into foul trouble either. And I forget the specifics, but Paxson was able to structure Ben’s contract to pay more up front and less later so that by the time some of our younger players’ contracts expire, Ben’s will be less than 10 mil to give room for other contracts. AND, no way on earth Chandler would have put up the number he did this year while on the Bulls. You put anyone decent on a team that is horrible and they can show decent numbers.
I think one thing Ben Wallace may bring to Chicago is some education for the less experienced guys. His ethic led Detroit a lot of nights. After Chicago is swept out of the second round this year, we may see them picking up on his determination more and more next year.
After his current contract expires, I envision a slightly aged Wallace as a veteran who’s become comfortable with his sixth man status but continues to infuse a team with the drive needed to win. Hey, maybe Cuban’s interested!
Sauce-
That’s weak sauce man.
“And you probably wouldn’t get over a Chicago exit in this series, ‘cuz you’re the kind of guy who’d hop on over to a Detroit Pistons blog and give it all kinds of yap when someone might actually mention the Bulls.”
what does that even mean?
I’ll stop reading and posting here if you want. I’ve been coming here since we beat the Heat, because you guys follow the Pistons and have been following them for years, and know things about them that I dont. I thought I could chime in with my 2 cents the same way about the Bulls during this series.
G, you said the following:
“The guy was a huge part of putting a championship banner in the rafters for Detroit and established an ethic and a culture that still constitute big parts of the team identity. The only story here is how lame some so-called Pistons fans are behaving toward him.”
Although I agree with you on Ben’s part in bringing a championship banner to Detroit, I don’t think he was any bigger of a part in brginging winning it in 2004 than any of the other starters. I don’t think they would have come close to beating L.A. or Miami if you had taken any one of the starters out of the picture.
With regards to establishing an ethic and a culture that still constitute big part of the team identity, I disagree. The city of Detroit has always had the culture and ethic that the Pistons team now embraces, and it was Joe Dumars who decided to bring that back to Detroit through smart moves in the off-season. Yes, Ben was the face of the Pistons and yes, he contributed to the re-establishment of that culture to the Pistons, but he was only a part of it.
P. Latch, unless you have that one particular username, that’s not directed at you.
Yeah, Ben Wallace seems like an upgrade, compared to Chandler. Ben Wallace is a 2nd season warrior on the court. The jeering by Pistons fans won’t get to him . . . he’s heard plenty over the years.
The universal opinion believes the acquisition of Ben Wallace to have been a declaration to win the championship . . . soon.
I still expect plenty of fight from the Bulls. If they beat Detroit, I’d probably be inclined to root for them, since they’d have defeated another solid club in the conference, and they would have likely earned the attention with a respectable regular-season record.
Apologies.
A mistake in my last comment that should be cleared up. Detroit didn’t play Miami in their title run but the following year.
Sauce, what can I say? I don’t understand your comment at all, and no one wants to read a Mitch Albom column. Yuck. Saying the Bulls have 3 Ben Wallaces and equating Smith to Gordon is ridiculous. It doesn’t even make for good trash talk. One would think a Pistons fan could appreciate what Ben Wallace does, and be able to spot young perimeter players who are on the verge of being top tier players. I’m not saying you have to like it, just don’t ignore the really obvious stuff. And seriously, Mitch Albom? Why?
Yap yap yap, lil’ doggie. How many of the Three Ben Wallaces are legitimate scoring threats? Do Gordon or Smith play decent defense? Really? You’re full of it.
The only on-the-verge guy for the youngins on the Bulls . . . Luol Deng.
“It doesn’t even make for good trash talk” (because Paxson Jackson says so). lol! Okaaaaay, champ. You responded directly. THIS IS SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!1!!
You can’t read too well - that’s not my problem.
So trot on back to the blogofbullcrap and suck on the teat of your own garbage. We need more comedy.
Finally there is something that Paxson jackson said that I TOTALLY agree with. No one wants to read Mitch Albom. That is without a doubt. I think Mike Lupica or even Skip Bayless would higher on my need 2 read list than the little fella.
Justin - I don’t particularly run right out to read that writer, but the link to the article was about Ben Wallace.
Ben opened up on that day and uttered a number of quotables.
In particular, the wrist that needs reconstruction was also part of my reason to link the article.
The NBA is a league where people would throw over 70 million at Erick Dampier, who clearly makes Ben Wallace’s deal a bargain, if we’re throwing names of absolute laughingstock contracts into the hat. However, we’re talking about another team, the Bulls, shelling out for slightly-damaged veteran goods.
Detroit had him at a bargain, and Joe D was willing to slightly overpay for his ‘legacy.’ Then Ben received an offer with a larger sum from Chicago, and despite whatever Ben said, few extra million was his top priority.
So hey, Ben Wallace is special . . . but he’s not so special around these parts . . . not any longer.
Hold on to your butts… but I’m going to have to sorta agree with Paxson Jackson…
Anyone who thought going into last off-season that Tyson Chandler would have the kind of year he had this season shoulda talked to me, because I have a bridge I could sell you..
Tyson Chandler is a great athlete, he has great size, and he runs the floor well. That’s it. He does not have the basketball “smarts” that Ben Wallace has, and although his stats may prove otherwise, Ben Wallace is a much more polished player.
PJ Brown is a serviceable power forward who brings a little bit of offensive ability to the team. He brings a lot more than any of the other big man on the Bulls’ roster, partner that with his $8 mil salary coming off the books this season, he’s a valuable commodity on the trade market OR going in to the off-season knowing that you have potentially $8 mil to invest in another player OR $8 mil to pair with players to go after a guy with big salary.
Chicago isn’t far off… I don’t agree Ben Gordon is the best guy for his position. I think you can find a far better “fit” at SG than Gordon simply because of the height advantage other team’s SG have when they match up against him. Chicago’s a couple of pieces away from being the best in the East. Whether they actually come up with those pieces, or let Detroit gradually age themselves out of competitiveness (see the Cavaliers), is up to them.
the “homer” side of me hopes for a sweep… the nba fan side of me hopes the series is close because Chicago deserves a lot better than this. They’re a good team, and yes I harp on them a bit on the blogabull.com page, but they’re a good team. I don’t like the Bulls because I don’t like Jordan/Pippen/Phil Jackson… It’s not that I don’t like Skiles, I think Skiles would have fit in good in Detroit had he been available when DET hired Flip.
I don’t comment around here very often, but I do want to take issue with something the Bulls fans are saying. The argument that Pistons fans should appreciate what Ben “does” because he embodies Detroit’s blue collar side is totally ridiculous. Last season was way different. Ben was different, there was less hustle, more complaining, mood swings, and the refusal to re-enter a close game in the final minute at Orlando. Detroit doesn’t stand for or tolerate any of those things, and if you think we’ve forgotten about them, you’re crazy.
Now, I’m honestly not trying to bash Ben. I loved the guy from 2001-2005, I proudly wore my #3 jersey before it became THE fashion accessory in Detroit. But the way last season played out, from a fan’s perspective, I felt both sides needed a change. To think that it would have been the same if he came back is crazy. Think about the block on Shaq in game 5 of the Miami series. The fact that people made a big deal out of it tells the entire story. It’s the type of play we were lacking all year, and its as if in that moment we collectively realized it (at least I did). I don’t mean to sound callous, but I’m glad he’s gone. And I’ll boo the hell out of him every single time he walks back into the Palace wearing opposing colors (especially black and red), but when he retires and comes back, I’ll be the first to stand and applaud.
OM, when I said “appreciate” I was referring to being aware of Wallace’s unique on court production. Blue collar, hustle, etc. aren’t in my vocabulary. I doubt the lunatic fringe of Deeeeetroit Basketball are going to will Wallace into sucking at basketball before age gets the better of him.
Lo and behold!
What I was talking about!
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-24-47/The-War-in-John-Paxson-s-Mind.html
I guess we’ll see about Chicago’s GM . . . answers a plenty after this series is finished.
Will be interesting to see what adjustments Detroit makes in game 5 after the bulls win 2 at home here.