After losing Game 5 in double overtime 109-107, the Pistons are losers of three straight and five of their last eight. After accumulating 53 wins in the regular season and 10 so far in the postseason, they now sit on the brink of elimination. As fans, we spend so much time celebrating this team’s alleged greatness during the first six months of the season that we tend to forget how often they take us down this same path.
When I was a kid, I remember a trip to the zoo where I went to go see the apes. Most of the apes were fat and lazy and spent their time sunning themselves in the back of their cage far away from the gawking idiots with their flashing cameras and fanny packs and stupid little grins on their faces. But there was one ape sitting right up close in the corner hunched over with his head pressed up to the glass.
I walked up to the glass and stood less than 12 inches away from him, and I was mesmerized as he slowly and methodically vomited on the ground in front of him. When he was done, he proceeded to eat the vomit, only to heave it back up a few minutes later. He did this over and over and over again. Why I stood there and watched him for 20 minutes I’ll never know for sure, but I imagine it was part of God’s plan for me an analogy for how I feel right now.
Pistons fans, this team has been making us vomit for the entirety of their five-year run in the Eastern Conference Finals. Hell, it was barely a year ago that we were in the exact same situation as now: down 3-2 to the Cavs after winning the first two games. Back then, I penned this inspirational post, which I must admit is still one of my favorite posts I’ve ever put together in the history of this site. But while I want to triumphantly raise my first and proclaim, “We did it last year! We’ll do it again! If it ain’t rough, it ain’t right!” … I’m kind of getting sick of eating what I just threw up. (It’s an imperfect analogy, I admit — I’m not sure if we’re eating when they lose or when they dodge the bullet and close out the series — the point is that it’s a cruel cycle that makes me feel like hell and never seems to end.)
And besides, this is not last year. This is not last year! Last year, Detroit blew out the Cavs in the first two games, dominating them in a way reminiscent of how this year’s crew initially handled the Bulls last round. Detroit escaped Cleveland last year, but something happened to them … much like something happened to this year’s team after Chicago came back to win two and a half games. If you want to compare this year’s run to last year, then realize that we are no longer playing the Cavs, we are playing the Heat — and the Heat beat us in six games!
Can Detroit flip the script? I don’t have a clue anymore. When the Pistons lost Game 4, we said, “Daniel Gibson won’t score another 21 points in Game 5,” and “Drew Gooden won’t keep hitting so many clutch shots.” We said things like, “Eff this, let’s not lose because the supporting cast beat us. Let’s quit double-teaming LeBron and leaving everyone else open, let’s see what some ol’ fashion man-to-man defense can do.”
You know what it does? It lets a guy score 48 points, including every single point for the Cavs in two overtimes! Midway through the final quarter, LeBron took over the game, scoring 29 of his team’s final 30 points. On his winning bucket in double-OT, he beat Chauncey off the dribble and slid past every single player that dared pretend they’d slow him down. I firmly believe if the Pistons had their entire roster in the paint, Rick Mahorn and Bill Laimbeer on the blocks and Chieck Samb standing under the basket with both of his hands poking up through the bottom of the rim that LeBron James still would have scored that bucket!
Double-teaming him doesn’t work, man-to-man doesn’t work. There is no fair way to stop this man. After watching the play, my immediate reaction (after picking my jaw up off the floor holding back some tears) was that I wish someone had put him on the floor and made him earn it from the line. Not just a hard foul which might have resulted in a three-point play; no, I wanted somebody to hurt the guy. Yes, physically hurt him, go beyond the rules of the game and give him a bruise in two different places: on his face from where someone would shove the ball into his huge nose and on his ass from when he would fall out of orbit and back to earth. Needless to say, my head was in a bad place.
Upon further reflection, I admit that wouldn’t have been a smart play — and I came to that conclusion before even considering the notion of sportsmanship. Had someone done what I initially wanted him to do, it would have undoubtedly resulted in a Flagrant-2 ejection and suspension for Game 6. And considering there’s actually a chance that Antonio McDyess might be suspended for doing what every other person on the face of the earth wants to do to Anderson Varejao, I decided it wouldn’t be in Detroit’s best interest.
But I digress. There are some positives from this game, namely, LeBron didn’t score 60 and make the Pistons lose by 14. I mean, seriously. Cleveland had three guys foul out, recorded just 13 assists in 58 minutes of play and still came out ahead. Given the minutes everyone played, I’m not all that impressed by any of the numbers in Detroit’s box score. It was nice to see a balanced attack for much of the game, but I can’t get excited about Chauncey Billups scoring 21 points when it took him 53 minutes to do so. Chris Webber was a bit of a revelation, going 20 and 7 in 30 minutes, but it’s an awfully sad moral victory when you’re just happy about the fact your starting center proved he still has a pulse. If you want a good play-by-play, just read my live blog of the game over at the FanHouse — I’ve already written about every excruciating detail (including the occasional moments of joy when it looked like Chauncey had his mojo back) and I refuse to do it again.
Can the Pistons bounce back? Of course they can, I just don’t know if they will. At this point, I’m going say it’s a 50-50 shot that the Cavs win in six or the Pistons win in 7. If Detroit can go down to Cleveland and prove they can play their hearts out, I don’t see them losing another heartbreaker at the Palace in Game 7. But I honestly don’t know if this team has that extra gear anymore. Everyone likes to pin their failings on a lack of focus, but if you watched, you can see they were trying. And consider this: four of Detroit’s starters played at least 46 minutes, whereas only one of Cleveland’s players played more than 42 minutes. Oh how I wish there were three days between games now instead of earlier in the series.
Besides, it’s not just a matter of Detroit suddenly regaining their focus and playing their hearts out, it’s a combination of game-planning, making adjustments on the fly (for instance, when a guy scores 20 straight, do something not to let him score 25 straight …), execution and poise. Right now, the Pistons are 0-4 in that regard for the series, and they’re just damn lucky they eeked out a couple of wins in the first two games to give them the margin of error they’re now decided to test the limits of.
So yeah, go ahead and partake in the whole “If it ain’t rough” rah rah rah yet again if you like, but I’m taking a step back. I believe in this team, but I also know this team. And for the first time since George Irvine was coach, I’m actually scared that getting out of this series is now longer solely about the Pistons “doing what they need to do.”
No, for the Pistons to get out of this series, they need Cleveland to choke. They need LeBron to realize he’s only 22 years old and that there will be plenty of other opportunities to reach the NBA Finals at some other point in the future. Or they need a big chunk of whatever was falling from the roof in Cleveland’s arena in Game 4 to land on LeBron’s foot. Or they need hoardes of Darfur-ian children who are missing multiple limbs due to machete wounds to show up and sit courtside to get into LeBron’s head.
They need … McDyess to be suspended, forcing Flip Saunders to put Amir Johnson on the active roster, setting the stage for Amir to have his “Tayshaun Prince circa 2003″ moment where he breaks out and averages 20 and 10 over the next six, yes six (!), playoff games.
It could happen, right? Right?
Cavaliers 109, Pistons 107 box score [ESPN]
GameFlow [PopcornMachine.net]
DBB: Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
DBB: Can the Pistons avoid the K.O.?
Dale Davis had a chance to play. He looked out there like that vomit you kept eating.
By my score, Lindsey Hunter’s only worth playing with a large lead to cool a smaller perimeter player, not guarding LeBron James . . . Hunter’s offense left the building two years ago.
Webber? Semi-respectable, but Webber has a knack for being in the wrong place at the wrong time as much as he has the ability to still knock down 15 and 10 . . . Webber’s only good enough at this point to help secure the first seed for Detroit. Since Game 3 of the series vs. the Bulls, he’s been awful on most nights. He’s a guy who fades in the 2nd season at this stage of his career. People can save the “time-out” jabs . . . nobody’s won anything with Webber on their team since high school.
Joe Dumars’s moves have been swinging and missing . . . Tony Delk? Nazr Mohammed? Flip Murray? Dare I say . . . Flip Saunders?
Great post Matt. I think I probably feel a lot like you do. And we keep our noses up against the window to this team all year long, researching and posting minutae.
Right now, there is just an empty feeling in my stomach. I can’t say I didn’t see this coming over the last two weeks, two months, two years but there is that part of me that wants to believe, that needs to believe.
This isn’t excuse making, but in general, NBA officiating and league office fine and suspensions make me sick. If Dice gets suspended whereas Gooden did not for attacking Sheed in Game 4, or Lebron for his Kobe contact, then this league is a sham.
You guys are seriously missing Ben Wallace. Hope the owner is enjoying that 15 million he didn’t give Wallace for this season…
Matt great post. I have to agree with you though about your “Was it over when the German’s bombed Pearl Harbor” post. THAT was a classic. All the “you idiot it was the Japanese” comments were priceless. But in my humble opinion this is a close second. Just a suggestion in the future more refernces to apes and vomit. Can’t go wrong with apes and vomit.
It’s true it’s not over until it’s over. If the Pistons were to come back and win these final 2 games, would it make you feel better about them? Would it make you think that they finally have it together? Or would the memory of their inconsistent play always be in the back of your mind?
Great post MATT!
I honestly feel that flip saunders made two crucial mistakes… during the 1st half he benched rasheed wallace when he was just getting hot with his shots. During 3rd quarter he benched wallace again when they needed his post-up plays more and he was making them shots.
Also, flip saunders allowed the game to go on while pistons had an 8 point lead once again over the cavs during 3rd quarter. When the cavs caught up to about 4 point deficit flip saunders didn’t evne think about calling a timeout… let the game move forward and calls a timeout as the score went to 65-65.
Anyway’s, I didn’t like the rasheed substition that soon.
Also, why are we not using NAZI MOHAMMED? he’s got height, power, we can use a big guy like him over dale davis.
Plus, the whole flip calling time-out please correct me if i got that wrong because i honestly saw no timeouts during 3rd quarter while the cavs cut through the deficit!
Hey MATT!
Do me a BIG FAVOR if you read this…
CHECK OUT THIS LINK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6rl4-7YtXo&mode=related&search=
You guys will see in this link the fouls the cavs committ and how gooden out of frustrations starts boxing against the pole and no ref called a t on him… if you see this and the incredible comeback you will also understand the officiating in game5. I don’t care what others say I don’t care if we are a no excuse team but there was too many bad calls!
peep it and leave a message here!
Its FIXED! Mcdice ejected? Please what a joke the NBAshould be ashamed of themselves! Cleveland is getting every call. The pistons get hammered consistantly and get nothing! Not taking anything away from Lebron who is a awsome player but come on. Did Lebron get ejected for elbowing Webber in the face? Did he even get a foul? Everyone is on Clevelands jock and thats what David Stern wants only Superstars. If the Pistons go on to lose this series I WILL NEVER WATCH A NBA GAME again! I am sick of this crap and it goes all the way back to Jordon! Just disgusting!
Let me spare you all from embarassing yourselves any further. I suppose, and expected Piston Fan to come here and nitpick the hell out of the game 5 loss. “The Ref’s this, the Refs that,” c’mon homers lets really take a clear look and perspective of last nites game.
What McDice did was flagrent and deserving of an ejection. Plain and simple. I do not agree he should receive a suspension for his actions. However, I would not be surprised if Stu “The Hammer” Jackson did in fact suspend him for one game. If we look at other incidences where players are suspended I have seen them suspended for less (Horry hip check of Nash). If Mc Dice simply came down on Varejao making an effort to go for the ball instead of a tomohawk chopping across his face then we would not be talking about ejections and suspensions. (nuff said on that point)
An earlier poster said what about LeBrons elbow? Well first off if you look at the reply, “YES” LeBron did deliver an elbow to Webber, was it intentional? Based on the angle, and where LeBrons attention was on the play (following the balls flight) I think it was incidental. Furthermore, he has no previous history of using elbows and other dirty tactics, unlike Kobe who has repeatedly used it while a player is standing directly in front of him. I know you don’t want to hear this, nor probably believe it, but you have to give him (LBJ) a pass on the elbow based on those factors. Not to mention none of the players, or coaches got into a huge uproar about the incident. I think they knew it was more of him being off balance than blantantly trying to hurt Webber.
Now, my main and final point. Folks regardless of who you root for that was one hell of a game!! Scream all you want about the foul calls and such, but it was evenly called on both sides. Besides last time I checked, Billips flopping (ala Andy Varejao) on very soft picks got not one, not two, but three Cavs to foul out. Again, Piston fan stop whinning about the calls, and screaming conspiracy for it was the refs calls in your favor toward the end of the game that kept you in it. After looking at a reply of a late drive by Lebron Sheed contested the shot and DEFINITELY hit his arm while going up sending Lebron to the canvas. There was no call. After watching Pavlovic drive to the lane and with an extended straight up off hand was then called for offensive foul for using his off hand to keep the defender at bay…another bad call. Yet, I am not going to sit here and cry about how we got jabbed by bad officiating. (even if we were on your side of the coin)
It comes down to this Piston fan, say what you want about the calls the moon being out of allignment, the David Stern conspiracy to get LeBron to the promiseland, the fact that you were lucky to not lose at least one of the first two games but merely the plan and simple truth is that you lost, and it was at home. You had not one chance but 3 different chances to win the game. Your inability to stop LeBron from driving to the hole repeatedly to score is not the refs fault. The incredible performance that LeBron put on making shots from all over the floor was not the refs fault. The missed shot with 2.2 secs left in the second overtime by Chancy was not the refs fault. So I ask you this Piston Fan, are you going to blame your mayor next? Maybe you should blame the flavor of gatorade that is served to the players during timeouts? (i suspect it is fruit punch flavor)
Or maybe, just maybe, it took one man’s effort, monumental at that (ala MJ) to dominate, take over a game and win it based on sheer will…
PS:would it be asking too much of you Piston fan to give props where props are due?
Eric,
You’re coming to a forum where Pistons fans (of all types, both homer and realist) gather in an opportunity to add to the argument of why the Pistons won or lost the game.
You cannot expect anyone that’s a fan of any team to not holler for the fouls or holler for conspiracy, because what else would they yell about?
I heard it was a great game, if Detroit somehow survives this dagger to move on it would be amazing.
While you can come here and say what you want, you shouldn’t really come here and say what you said because, after all, everyone here is a Pistons’ fan (I’m assuming). There were fouls missed on both ends of the court, that’s a part of the game (on a side note to you, Chauncey may flop on the big men that show out on the screens, but they also can’t stick their hips out either to impede his movement, no matter how bad Billups makes it look).
Matt, brilliant post. Just brilliant. I’ve been trying to stay strong and repeating the “if it ain’t rough it ain’t right” mantra for all my people, but last night was a core-shaker. These Pistons never make it easy, but LeBron’s work last night was masterful and not a little frightening. I still think that we CAN win these next 2 games and go on to give San Antonio a run in the finals. I just hope hope hope that we do.
Eric, there was nothing evenly called about that game. You’re coming in here to lecture fans who have followed this team for decades, and seen the star treatment, which is generally acknowledged league wide, and pretty clearly documented on FoxSports in both of Charlie Rosen’s last two articles on this series.
Is it a factor? Sure it is when your 6th man gets ejected for what Steve Kerr himself said is not a foul worthy of ejection. When LeBron constantly uses a swim move with his left arm to get around defenders and when he can travel as long as it ends in a power dunk, yeah, it’s a factor in a tight double overtime game.
The reality is that our team is better but your team is playing better. In tight games, a missed call or 3, an uncalled foul or two is all the difference in deciding winners and losers.
One has to believe that if the refereeing in the last 2 games was more even, the Pistons may well have stolen one game if not both. The first 3 games were very well officiated.
Will public outcry change anything? No. But Pistons fans have been down this road before where a star gets the extra advantage and it is impossible to play both our opponent and the referees.
Am I making excuses? Perhaps. But is the excuse valid? Watch the tape. If McDyess gets suspended, this series will go down with the 2006 Finals as a series that swung based on external factors.
I’m tired of our local and fan media not calling out the refs. The only way we will have a chance to beat the Cavs on merit only in Game 6 is if the calls are fair, even and LBJ stops getting treated like Jordan because as inspiring as last night’s game was, he’s got a long way to go before he can be spoken of in comparison to a 6 time champion.
I have now lived long enough to hear Boney gripe about opposing fans flaming on his team’s blog.
I will now get the wrinkles out of my shirt with all that irony.
I got a lot of things to complain about from last night. Everything from not doubling Lebron, to some of the crappy officiating, the fact that Lebron played out of his mind. All that lead to our loss. But I believe if Dyess was in, we wouldn’t have gone to OT. He would have chipped in a few points. Instead we had Dale Davis in there. We would have better at defense too.
I don’t really have too many issues with the officiating except for:
1) McDyess probably shouldn’t have been ejected for that foul.
2) Bullups can’t seem to get a foul called when he gets into the lane and then gets his arms raked by Gibson, LeBron, or Hughes.
Other than that, LeBron kicked our asses. That was like watching Kobe’s 81-point game. You KNEW LeBron would get the ball and you KNEW he would score. We just couldn’t stop him.
motownman - at least spell his airness’ name correctly. Jordan.
Boney - I’m actually a Bulls fan not a Pistons fan. What i am still doing here, i have no idea; I guess i have nothing better to do than scout out two teams that will probably come in the way of the Bulls 2008 championship run.
Refs - I watched last nights game, honestly not really rooting for either team, and I noticed that the refs def blew calls on both ends. I really think the league needs to either get one more ref, or use replay the last couple minutes of a game for fouls, or something along that nature. In a tight game, or even series, like this one, the refs have too much control on the outcome of a game. People say the best team usually wins in a best of seven. The only time this may not be true is if there are several close games and the series goes 6 or 7 games. I know most of you Pistons fans probably feel they only hosed the Pistons, but they also messed up on the Cavs end too. Towards the end of the fourth Rasheed clearly fouled LeBron, and the refs let it go as a clean block. I thought that was the end of the game cause i think Detroit scored right after that. Thats just one example of many. But in a tight playoff series, the refs have so much influence on the outcome. I dont know that theres a simple answer as to how to fix this, but just pointing that out. Its impossible for the refs to get every foul right. But on top of not seeing fouls etc, most refs also ref with emotion and psychological hindrances. (make up calls, going with the crowd, etc.) (I thought the make up call for the Rasheed block above came when LeBron drove and just kinda fell and nobody touched him but they called a foul.)
Your thoughts and mine seem to be pretty much mirror reflections of each other. What a game. Hate being on this precipice of elimination and not all too confident about flipping the script.
While the calls didn’t help (Gibson), I’m not going to blame our loss on the calls. I do think no matter how crazy Lebron runs to the basket, chances are even if he runs you over hes going to the line for two free shots at the bucket.
My question is how long into Lebrons 29 out of 30 point run in does it take Flip Saunders to realize that Lebron wants to take the shot every possession? Yes he’s hard to stop, but double/triple team him and make his teammates who did nothing all OT take the shots.
Sheed needs to stay low post, stay the hell way from the 3 line. He’s the best post player we have. Anyone notice when we cut hard to the basket we start we start winning? Well I don’t think Saunders has. We’ll get up by 5 then start throwing all these crazy 17 foot jumpers while being guarded.
Whatever, as sad as it sounds I don’t think I even want them to win this series. If we do win this series, Saunders will probably stay and next year will be the same “oh we learned from last year” crap. Do our team a favor and lose this series.
I want a new coach. Saunders always looks so nervous. That can’t help the players confidence when they need some tips or plays and they see Flip chewing on his pen about to cry. I’m ready for a tough love coach.
Well I guess the last paragraph was just me dogging on Flip, but I had to let out my Saunders rant sometime.
Microwave good post, and I hope that my words stated here are not insulting. I also hope you can value the opinion of the otherside as much as you do not want to here it.
As far as fouls called, come off it. How does LBJ go an entire game without one call in favor of him? He did during game 3, and yeah of course you can say the games were well officiated in the first three contests because you won the first two. I watched the game, and I am no less knowledgable than yourself, regardless of if I watch the Pistons every nite.
For you to compare LBJ getting calls to what Jordan got is completely ludicrous! Teams could just breath on Jordan and he would get fouled. Look more closely Microwave LBJ got fouls being aggressive and going to the hoop. Not tick tac fouls, or hand check fouls like Jordan received.
Lastly there was no “guaransheed” that McDicey would have made the difference for you guys. You still may have lost the game. The main reason you cannot complain about fouls is that you although losing McDice early fouled out 3 Cavs starters and you still could not push thru. The game I watched last nite showed LBJ only getting two foul calls during the final overtimes. He made all his shots regardless of your defenders coverage.
Just face it, LBJ was a one man wrecking crew and he beat you fair and square. I know that is hard to accept, but when you come down, or better yet come up from your depression and take a good hard look at what transpired from 10 minutes in the 4th till the end of the game you will finally realize there was no one-sidedness of refs calls.
I mean hell Varejao got fricking clobbered by Chauncey after he regained control of a lose ball. Did the refs call a foul on Chauncey??
I wasn’t griping about fans of the other team griping, I simply said you can’t blame fans of the Pistons to be crying for fouls since this is a Pistons’ board.
“you shouldn’t really come here and say what you said because, after all, everyone here is a Pistons’ fan”
Cleveland FT/FTA = 28/39
Deroit FT/FTA = 35/43
Cleveland PF = 36
Detroit PF = 27
You guys are gonna blame this one on the refs? Seriously?
Sure, there were some phantom calls and some non-calls on each side, but that’s bound to happen in 58 minutes of basketball. Anybody who thinks the calls heavily favored the Cavs last night is delusional.
I don’t think the Pistons are out of this series by a long shot, but it is starting to look like the Cavs are the better, younger, hungrier team.
Eric,
I think you need to ask yourself why you feel the need to come to a Pistons blog and seek validation for your team.
You lost me when you started saying Jordan got tick tack or hand check fouls. Jordan took absolute beatings and made huge shots, year after year, game after game. Did you even watch Jordan play in the 80s and 90s?
I’ll look forward to chatting with you after Game 7.
Perfect summary Matt. I’m worn tired myself. I don’t want to hear “We’ve been here before” or “We play better with our backs against the wall.” I’m sick of all the chatter. I don’t want to hear about focus, or the extra gear or turning it on. It’s all played out. Just go out there again and have fun…be fun and make me believe again. Somewhere along the road this team has morphed into a somewhat unlikeable group. The ‘04 and ‘05 versions played not only with urgency, but rather with a chip on their shoulders and something to prove.
And should this team lose Game 6 or even Game 7 - this era of Detroit Basketball will be destined for change. And sadly it will be remembered and defined by two words. Entitlement and Respect. Those are the two words that killed this Piston era. They always felt they were entitled to play for the trophy no matter what and they never respected their opponents.
As for Flip Saunders…I need to start a new blog called http://www.removeflip.com
Sorry if I give a critical opinion to yours. I do not see why you would take too much offense to me posting on your board. I am not disrespectful, nor do I try to rub stuff in your face. I simply call it as I see it.
Regardless if you like what I say, I think to some extent you can agree with my viewpoints regardless if I am a piston fan or not.
Do you only want to hear one side, and do you only want to hear only your fellow Piston fans lament over a tough loss?
Look I am not saying that you cannot complain about the refs if that is what you want to do. I merely am saying sometimes you got to tip your hat to your opponent. It is like when Rip gets the ball on the baseline from about 15 feet out, and he drives on Pavlovic or Hughes and they play good defense on him and yet he still makes the shot. I simply tip my hat to Hamilton for making a shot that no one could stop or defend. Not oh he pushed off with his off hand or he leaned in with his shoulder to get seperation. I simply dont make excuses just like Mike Brown our coach doesnt make excuses. When LBJ got hacked by Rip in game two and all the commetators agreed he was fouled what did Mike Brown do, what did LBJ do? They simply said they didnt get the call and they lost the game. They didnt call out the refs, nor did they scream bloody murder about how the refs swallowed their whistles.
I simply believe rather than point your fingers at the refs that you need to look at your coach and his substitution schemes. You need to look at how “big” a difference your team is in the playoffs when they dont have a stopper in the middle (ala Ben “freakin” Wallace)
Simple question…do you think LBJ gets those two slam dunks in your face at the end of the game if Ben Wallace was back their patrolling the paint?
The NBA has demonstrated over the years that teams have a small window of opportunity of winning it all. You have gotten there the last 5 years in a row, with basically the same team. Do you not also possibly think that your team as experienced as they are, are a bit slower, a bit older and thus matching up with the younger more athletic, and now playoff experienced Cavs is difficult to overcome?
I hear a lot of you saying if the Pistons would play their A-Game, well did you ever think that they are playing their A-Game and that the Cavs are a pretty good defensive team? I mean really think about this, we are taller, younger, and bigger. Isnt playoff basketball a grind? The more aggressive team wins ultimately, we hear how the fouls are harder, and the game is more physical. Is it that difficult for you to admit other than experience and some pretty good clutch shooters that the Cavs are better in all other aspects of the game?
Is it really that much of a stretch???
Reasons for optimism:
I’m actually feeling pretty good today. We got beat last night. It was a tough loss, and it stung. But. But. It took our sixth man getting ejected and Bron Bron having an incredible game in order to beat us in double OT. I was pleased to see the Pistons play 48 min. of basketball. I always thought that if they could do that then they would beat the cavs. I was wrong. The cavs beat us last night… beat us fair and square. All of these games have been very tight… they all could have gone either way. The pistons have played well for one game in this series (game 5). The great performance unfortunately came on a night when Bron Bron had an exceptional performance. I always said that if they play well and get beat I can live with it… so I will.
Two things to adjust for game 6:
1. Move the ball. Saunders isn’t a stupid man. He may not be great at making adjustments but when he talks about his team making the hockey assist he’s spot on. The pistons need to get the cavs defense moving their feet by swinging the ball and then attacking the seams. They are not, and have never been, a one-on-one team. We are playing into their hands by attacking them one-on-one. Their defense is just too good. Yes… good.
2. If a guy has dropped 20 strait points on you and seems unstoppable then you need to put him on his ass, and get th ball out of his hands. Send in Naz to put the hurt on him… or dale… or max. I’m not advocating hitting him so hard he gets hurt or trying to injure him. Just put him on his ass. Make him feel the contact. Rattle him a bit.
I didn’t realize the dude was a Cavs’ fan, nor does it really matter. I don’t care if Cavs’ fans come here, it’s not my site, nor are the Pistons mine, like I own them.
It was a “general statement”, ever heard of those? You know where you, or someone else, might make a general statement, like he did, saying you can’t complain about the fouls. I agreed with him, but I also responded and said “you can’t really expect to come to a Pistons’ site and expect much less than what he was talking about.
Eric: did you read my freaking post or just delve right into the comments? The whole thing was about giving credit to the Cavs. Revel in your team’s victory for a bit instead of trying to pound it into our heads that our favorite team is slower and older than yours.
I have this really long rant in my head but the bottom line comes out like this, if they lose and the Cav’s advance to face the Spurs then it’s time to shake things up.
Let Chauncy go, let the “been in this situation before.. play better w/ our backs against the wall… dig our own graves” bullshit go w/ him. Save the money, continue to develop what is a promising bench and regroup in the next year or so.
I’m sorry for McDyess, if there’s one person on that team I want to get a ring before his career is all said and done, it’s him.
Can someone please let me know the last time you saw a Pistons playoff defense let someone drive through the lane for an uncontested power dunk?…With less than a minute to go in a tight game?…TWICE!?!?!?!
Sadly that will probably be the last game I see this year, I work Saturday and will be too busy to even check the score.
I blame about 20 different things for the loss. Suffice it to say, I’m disgusted with the coaching staff and players equally for not doing something, anything, to slow down LeBron. I don’t care how good he is, no player is as good as they allowed him to be.
Matthew- hey it is cool dude I get what you said and I think you had a great post as well. Unfortunately i was in the process of writing my next post before yours even got to the board.
When I posted it came in basically at the same time as your post. If it seems like I am trying to pound a point then my apologizes.
The only point I am contending is that someone has to lose, and blaming the refs doesnt seem to be something observant b-ball fan would fall back on.
Lastly, Tim you are right on with your post. If I were the Pistons I would have gotten the ball out of LBJ’s hands, or at the very least hard foul him and make him beat you at the line.
Eric said, “When LBJ got hacked by Rip in game two and all the commetators agreed he was fouled what did Mike Brown do, what did LBJ do? They simply said they didnt get the call and they lost the game.”
Um, didn’t Mike Brown throw a giant hissy-fit and have to be escorted off the court? And then have to be pulled away from some fans in the tunnel?
Anyways, we’ll see what happens next game.
Bad officiating kills the momentum of the game thats all i have to say.
peace!
Garrett… In addition to what you quoted I wanted to add the fact that it wasn’t all the commentators that thought it was a foul… only some. On the other hand the other commentators said that a foul occured that wasn’t called for the pistons on one end and same thing happened against the cavs on the other end so it looks like the refs are letting them win this one based on their own strength without the refs interferring… so it pretty much equated!
anyways… rewind the tape before lebron took that shot and see what happened before hand when pistons were running offense it should be around 30 seconds before that lebron take!
Mustafa:
You guys will see in this link the fouls the cavs committ and how gooden out of frustrations starts boxing against the pole and no ref called a t on him… if you see this and the incredible comeback you will also understand the officiating in game5. I don’t care what others say I don’t care if we are a no excuse team but there was too many bad calls!
mayo:
You can do better than that, bad officiating? I believe you can get every person in detroit drunk with the amount of vintage whine you are putting forth.
Boney
I heard it was a great game, if Detroit somehow survives this dagger to move on it would be amazing.
mayo:
You heard?!?! I bet everyone here is hanging on the edge of their seat waiting for your proxy analysis, heard of dvr? tivo? vcr? Multiple entries from a guy who didn’t even watch the game. Next time lie and say you watched it, then you might even look like a true fan.
Tim
Reasons for optimism:
I’m actually feeling pretty good today. We got beat last night. It was a tough loss, and it stung. But. But. It took our sixth man getting ejected and Bron Bron having an incredible game in order to beat us in double OT. I was pleased to see the Pistons play 48 min. of basketball. I always thought that if they could do that then they would beat the cavs. I was wrong. The cavs beat us last night… beat us fair and square. All of these games have been very tight… they all could have gone either way. The pistons have played well for one game in this series (game 5). The great performance unfortunately came on a night when Bron Bron had an exceptional performance. I always said that if they play well and get beat I can live with it… so I will.
Two things to adjust for game 6:
1. Move the ball. Saunders isn’t a stupid man. He may not be great at making adjustments but when he talks about his team making the hockey assist he’s spot on. The pistons need to get the cavs defense moving their feet by swinging the ball and then attacking the seams. They are not, and have never been, a one-on-one team. We are playing into their hands by attacking them one-on-one. Their defense is just too good. Yes… good.
2. If a guy has dropped 20 strait points on you and seems unstoppable then you need to put him on his ass, and get th ball out of his hands. Send in Naz to put the hurt on him… or dale… or max. I’m not advocating hitting him so hard he gets hurt or trying to injure him. Just put him on his ass. Make him feel the contact. Rattle him a bit.
mayo:
Excellent commentary. Obviously Tim has taken some time to analyze his team and the game, I would also assume that he “watched” the game. We all know nba refs give preferential and disparate treatment to their superstars,unfortunately for detroit your stars used to get calls, but your stars are being outshined by a supernova.
Detroit is still an excellent team, but Chris Webber in and Ben Wallace out? You no longer put fear into people who want to drive to the rim. I believe dick cheneys’ hunting partners block more shots than webber.
Your front office made a big mistake. But it ain’t
over until oprah sings. Detroit has been here before and battled back. No reason to lose hope…yet.
Maybe you could bring the worm out of retirement for that intimidation factor that is now missing.
It is difficult to harness any good nba player one-on-one, and james isn’t just good.
I wish both teams well and hopefully for the detroit faithful, Rip and the boys will shut everyone up by coming back to win the series.
Take care and good luck!
Speed kills.
The problem all stems from the guards at first. Though Billups played the first half with some good plays, again near the end he made some bone-head decisions that make you ask what he is doing being a starter? Like if anyone notice, everytime he felt a little bump, Billups pulled up for a jumper - why not drive at the basket? Instead we had jumper after jumper where there was no offence player under or near the rim for a rebound. Billups and Hamilton NEED TO LEAD!! They need to get off this funk they seem to be in and start playing like the players we know they are.
That leads me to changing starters. Though Webber did have a great offensive game, did you see the non-active attitude to most of the plays (and this isnt just on Webber but most of the team except for Hunter, Maxiell and McDyess). Billups at one drive actually screamed at Webber to look up and he did this “huh” move and lucky Chauncey put the ball directly in his hands. Webber to me doesn’t deserve to be a starter in this series. I think McDyess should have been a starter, then bring in Maxiell for offensive and Webber as tangent. For those who are dumping on Dale Davis. How much playing time has Dale had? Whether or not he is a vetran there is not a chance for even a superstar like Jordan to get ready for a game if they are barely put in for that season.
Detroit has been sleeping at the “Oh we can do it” snobbish attitude and now it will more than likely cost them thier place in the finals. The only way Pistons will win is to play Piston ball. Something they haven’t done in awhile and someone other then Rasheed needs to get fired up to lead them cause Billups, and Hamilton seem to be reluctant to get it into gear when it counts.
I had more fun watching the Pistons when they were a lottery team then I do now. Atleast they played hard then.
regardless weather Detroit falls or catapults back, they are in definate need of renovation. It’s been 5 years now where out of 5 trips to the finals, only once was it victorious. Sooner or later, a dynasty is bound to frail and if the necessary changes arent done, it becomes a memory. At the same time, a new, more innovative force gains momentum and replaces the old. It’s the same in every arena, political, national, or in this case sports. Ever since LBJ has come into cleveland I have witnessed a once wimsy dwarf grow into a super giant. Every season, they get stronger, more experienced, and worse of all, more confident in themselves (especially lebron). While at the same time, Detroit has suffered great losses both in Ben Wallace and in confidence. Yes, confidence: You don’t see any guaransheed, or comments like, “it won’t happen again.” It seems like slowly, but steadily the tables are turning in the favor of the cavs. Even if the pistons win the series, they will not be fresh for the finals (and if cavs are a problem, just imagine the spurs), and therefore suffer another dissapointing season, where the bound to end cycle repeats, and the looming demise of the pistons dominance era will be as much a reality as the emergence of new era of the KING and his monarchy.
Did anyone else see the “Marines Teamwork Play of the Game”?
I was watchin’ the game at my favorite watering hole… so I couldn’t hear much but the play they highlighted was basically a Cav’s player (don’t remember if it was Lebron or not) knocking over his own player on the way to the hole.
Was this really the “teamwork” play of the game or were the announcers just having some fun?
Anyway, I thought the officiating sucked but I DO NOT think that lost the game for us. I think Lebron played an amazing game.
Add to that the fact that Saunders is really baffling me with some of his “strategies” and the fact that Chauncey made a bone-head play at the end of the game (seriously.. when you shoot the rock… your intentions should be to make the shot… not to pick up a foul!)
Anyway, if the games are “fixed” as some people implied… the Pistons should be getting the calls next game so Stern can extend the series. Don’t see that happening, but that’s what the conspiracy theory folks will tell ya.
I’m with Matt C. on this one. The Pistons need to lose this series in order to summon some massive organizational changes.
Final note: If the Cleveland fans were TRUE FANS, they would all get Drew Gooden hair cuts for game 6. Seriously… do it. It’s a great look for everyone, young and old.
M*
Actually, it’s more like eating someone else’s vomit.
You call yourself a Stones fan? I’m sorry, I’ve always respected your blog and opinions, but you have either lost The Faith or you never had it. Just because the road gets bumpy doesn’t mean you jump off the cart. Lebron played one of the best games ever in the playoffs, and they still had many chances to win that game. Despite the fact no one on our team played that well.
As someone with tickets to Game 7, I’m not ready to throw in the towel. You either believe in this team or you don’t, and you better believe I do. The only thing that can hold us back is Flip the Fool’s utter inability to make coaching adjustments on the fly. Regardless, the boys in blue will find a way to dig out a win tomorrow night, just like they have in the face of doubters for the past 5 years.
GuaranSheed
from Bar Watcher:
I’m with Matt C. on this one. The Pistons need to lose this series in order to summon some massive organizational changes.
—
I highly doubt that’s what Matt or many Pistons fans want. Wanting your team to lose so as to get a better shot in the lottery is one thing. Hoping they blow Game 6 of a conference final to hasten “organizational changes”? Now that’s absurd. Don’t you think the front office is already aware things need to be shaken up to stay on top?
Sure we’re all pissed. Yes, this team is supposed to win tight games like these. Yes, this team should not be beaten by one dude. But this series is not over. This doom and gloom talk is such BS. I mean, hell, after 5 years with this team, what do you expect?
Anyway, the Pistons woes are mainly offensive…in both senses of the word. (Although I thought they played TERRIBLE defense down the stretch of Game 5.) Absolutely nobody is playing with any consistency on that end of the floor. Billups is hitting outside shots but not mixing it up with effective dribble penetration. Rip gets out of control off the dribble and is missing chippies. Prince is forcing it. (That was a great wraparound dunk though.) Webber hasn’t made a mid-ranger since early last series. And for all of those that want Sheed to stay on the block, back off a bit. Sheed’s 3’s (especially clutch ones) are part of our game. Of course we need him on the post but we also need him to spread the defense. I can’t remember the last time he hit a momentum-changing 3.
But is it out of the question to think that they will bust out of this funk? Do you really think James is gonna pull that shit off again? Maybe on both accounts. I don’t know. But I highly doubt the Cavs are gonna run us out of the gym. And I’d still take the Pistons in a tight game against them every time.
sheesh. these some long-ass responses. so i’ll add another.
i won’t happily give props (afterall, that was a KILLER loss), but i’ll give props to lebron. he just wanted it more than the pistons and subsequently, he just took it. you have to be in awe of someone with that ability. and it’s a bummer to look at your own team and see a complete void of that type of talent. especially now that we’ll be talking “max” contracts pretty soon with chauncey. i think last night we saw only one guy on the floor who deserves every penny of that max contract.
i’ve looked at one article today regarding last night’s game (as that was all i could stand), and the one quote from any piston is the quote that they’ve said for every series every year since they won the championship: “we’ve been here before.” yawn. it’s time to move on from that persona. we’re on the downward slope with this squad. it’s sad to say, but it’s true. we’re on the verge of becoming the new jersey nets.
here’s the reality:
-whiffing on the no. 2 pick will eventually come back to haunt you.
-without the miracle of chris webber getting bought out of his contract and signing with the pistons only because he’s a detroit kid, this team would have been exposed long ago. but he was a end-of-season bandaid and it started peeling off in the playoffs. and once he’s overpaid by some other sucker team, we’re going to have a big hole in our rapidly aging core.
-flip saunders is not the guy. he does not game plan. he is terrible at in-game adjustments. and he does not have this team’s confidence. and let’s face facts, the detroit pistons are not meant to be a fluid offensive juggernaut. they’re meant to be a hold-you-to-80 points, suffocating, grind-it-out defensive-minded team. they use to do exactly what the cavs have done to them in this series: disrupt offensive flow. i’m sure flip is a nice guy. loves his kids. loves the golden gophers. but he’s simply not the guy. this team had its greatest success with larry brown. they need a guy who is going to scream and yell and demand everyone’s respect from day 1. not a nice guy. not a guy that lets them refuse to sub in when asked. not a guy who lets his guys stand at the scorers table in the middle of a timeout. with both van gundys on the market, i don’t know how you don’t explore making a change.
this is a big offseason for dumars. he’s rested on his laurels as badly as his arrogant squad. resigning amir to me is more important than resigning chauncey. MORE minutes for maxiell. MORE minutes for delfino. got to make a splash in this draft. gotta plan for the future and not just reward the past.
and saving this for last, because no one is saying it, probably because he’s been blessed with a one-of-a-kind talent in lebron james and i could win 40 games with lebron james: mike brown has game-planned and coached his ass off. this is the series he’s been waiting for all season and it shows. though he still looks like mr. potato head.
What the hell is this, oh wait . . . this isn’t hell.
It’s not the special kind of hell in watching Michael Jordan and his dominant team take Detroit to the grave in 4 straight games. It’s not the special kind of hell in watching Larry Bird steal an inbound pass and ruin yet another Pistons run on a final mistake. It’s not the special kind of hell that involves Detroit coming up short against Magic’s Lakers while still on the edge of their destiny. It’s not the special kind of hell in watching the Pierce and Walker Celtics slop together a deplorable quality of series with Jerry Stackhouse’s Pistons. It’s not the special kind of hell that involves the Pistons wearing teal and Rick Sund marketing Grant Hill like he’s a possible ‘next’ Michael Jordan.
It’s watching years of solid team play from San Antonio, Dallas, Detroit, Phoenix, and other would-be clubs all get pushed aside in favor of one player’s great performance.
I watched it earlier when everyone was willing to get on the love train that appeared to be the Golden State Warriors, seemingly because nobody really likes Mark Cuban, in comparison.
It’s clear to me now . . . I’m watching a league in which the commissioner markets the sport with every wrong idea.
What team does LeBron have of comparable quality, in comparison to Jordan’s Bulls from the 1990s? Am I supposed to give accolades to a Cavs club that’s destroyed Detroit by a mere handful of points in their 3 wins? All the while, Pistons players are helping them to these wins with a handful of key mental errors that don’t befit their individual quality? Where’s that fourth Cavs win? How about a couple of rings on LeBron’s fingers? What is this team’s name, the LeBrons, or the Cavaliers?
When the Heat beat the Pistons in last year’s conference series, I was content to actually root for the Heat because I felt Miami had a solid collection of role players around Wade and Shaq. It’s funny, but I am hardly swayed to care about LeBron past a couple highlight reels on YouTube. It involves wading past too many shot clocks run down to final seconds on trying to find the right LeBron isolation drive mismatch.
LeBron’s a great player . . . but nobody can sell me on the quality of the Cavaliers. Why should I care for a Cavs team with the easiest street to the Finals that I’ve ever witnessed in some time? San Antonio appears to be Cleveland’s first test. First test . . . in the Finals? That’s not funny . . . it’s horrible quality.
One LeBron highlight game does not make up for an entire garbage dump of a season. From the moment this season tipped off with that ugly synthetic ball, I knew this year was going to be less than acceptable.
Well, the feeling I got after last night’s game wasn’t as bad as how I felt when the Pistons lost to the Celtics in Game 5 of the 1987 Eastern Conference Finals. I’m optimistic that the Saunders will make the right adjustments in order to force the other four guys besides James to take a difficult shot. If that still doesn’t get us the win, well then you have to give the Cavs their due .
We are all witnesses to LeBrons greatness. The Pistons are a great team but as a fan of the NBA, its clear that the Pistons are on the way out. They had 5 opportunities to win the championship and only cashed in once. Billups will be gone next year and the Pistons will begin to vanish into the depths of the Eastern Conference. Bulls, Cavs, Bucks, to much in the division.
I agree 100% w/ Matt C.’s post
Anytime we get a cushion, we no longer run an offense. They double Rip off that curl, so even if you don’t go to Rip on that play it opens the floor.
Have you ever seen an NBA team after 2 timeouts late in Regulation, not run a play?
I understand a lack of execution, but, when they were up by 2 w/ 50 seconds or so, (This is the play to win the game, IMO) They walk the ball up the court and stand and wait until there is 12 seconds on the shot clock. Essentially, wasting 1/2 the shot clock, on the biggest possession of the season. What do they do? No cutting, just give the ball to Sheed w/ about 5 seconds on the clock and hope. The result a turnover.
Then, with 9 seconds left and Lebron going off (you don’t want OT) we call a timeout to have everyone stand and watch Chauncey dribble the ball and then take an off balance 3 pointer.
Again no motion away from the ball, no penetration, no ball movement. Just a joke. 18 assists in 58 minutes. Normally, Detroit isn’t even in a game with that lack of ball movement.
Forget how bad of a defensive team they havce become under Saunders, their offensive execution in big moments is putrid. They had some great one on one moments the other night that gave them a shot, but, they ran no offense for any prolonged period of time.
Sauce- You couldnt be more wrong in your post. First off it is the Cavaliers not the LeBrons. Did LeBRon have a sensational performance in game 5 yes indeed!
Yet, recall that you almost loss both game one and two where LeBron had little overall output. I find it funny that you think the Pistons are a team and the Cavs are just a bunch of 3 teamers working with the second coming of Michael J. So here is a short education on the Cavs. Since you being a fair weather fan probably only seen them play 7 times at best. Z the big man is the fifth best center in the entire league. Look at the stats, and he is the best free throw shooter in the playoffs…scrub or integral part of a team (All-Star one year as well) I could go into each player and give you reasons for their above average abilities but it would definitely bore you and this post will be long.
To simply say it is the LeBRons would be the mistake that the Pistons would be making. Does LeBron tend to take over in the 4th quarter…YEs but he needs all all his supporting cast to get to that stage of the game in the first place.
nuff said-
Good luck to you guys tonight…although i think it is over for ya!!
BOOBIE!!!