As most of you already know, the Pistons have begun play in the Vegas Summer League. From the comments in the post below, I understand the games are (more or less) accessible online at NBA.com. Hopefully that works for you; as for me, I’m currently vacationing in northern Michigan for the week and am relegated to accessing the internet through a very small and inconsistent trickle of mobile broadband — I’m grateful that my Sprint phone can also serve as a laptop modem, but I’m already stretching its digital roaming capabilities to the limits and I’m pretty sure if I attempted to view streaming video it would literally burst into flames.
With that in mind, I recommend getting your VSL fix from the guys over at Bad Boy Summer Camp, who’d probably do a better job than I breaking down the games anyway considering they have men on the ground braving the sweltering Vegas heat and providing first-hand accounts.
In the meantime, feel free to discuss any and all things Summer League in the comments of this post. My lack of seeing a game prevents me from adding anything intelligent to the conversation, but at least now there’s a central place for your discourse.
For those of you who have watched any of the game(s), tell me, does Cheikh Samb look good enough to win the 15th spot on the roster this year? I don’t know his contract status with his Spanish team and whether a buyout would be prohibitive, but assuming that’s not an issue, I’d like for the Pistons to keep him here and let him develop at the hands of Detroit’s coaching staff (and that of their new NBDL affiliate in Ft. Wayne, IN) as opposed to leaving him in Europe.
Samb contract is done with his overseas team as of July 1st. Thats the big question right not. Let him go back and have to buyout his contract later or put him in that 15 spot over here. I get the feeling his is still a little raw and he should play another year in Spain.
The article in the Detroit News suggested he’s not nearly ready physically for the NBA. In two games this weekend, he played one good quarter, and that seemed to make him tired for the rest of Saturday’s game and the scrimmage on Sunday. “Visibly exhausted” was used.
I’m not overly worried about who gets the 13, 14, and 15th spots on the roster. If it comes down to him and Mejia, then I say let him go back to Spain, since there’s a off chance Mejia might contribute this year because we have less depth at his position and he seems more ready. But I say keep him over here while we can for free and let him play in Fort Wayne.
can you dudes tell Joe Dumars to hurry the frick up and sign Amir Johnson so I can see him play in Summer League? Or at least drop a mandate on Flip that he must play Maxiell and Amir at the same time for a solid chunk of time next year? Note that I’m an Amir fan, not a Pistons fan (actually, I absolutely hate the Pistons, but with respect, unlike, say, the Knicks at whom I merely laugh derisively) but I’m willing to put temporarily put aside my anti-Pistons bias so that we can all witness Amir melt our brains with awesome goodness. Please, can this happen? I feel like I’ve been reading about him destroying the D League since 1987.
John,
I agree with you about his lack of conditioning, however, I think it would be beneficial to have him here to develop under the tutelage of the Pistons organization and trainers rather than going back to Spain.
Continuing to play in Spain is simply conditioning him for the euro-style of the game which ultimately will not help him in his transition to the NBA.
On the other hand, having him play for the Ft. Wayne affiliate would allow him coaching and conditioning that may even act as a catalyst for his conditioning and development as an NBA player.
I’m not convinced that the level of competition in the league that he is currently playing in is necessarily better than the competition in the NBDL either and I think that ideally, we want this guy as ready to play next year as possible.
Dale Davis will be gone, Rasheed will be one year older, and chances are Nazr, C-Webb, and McDyess may not be around either.
That leaves us with Amir, Rasheed, and Maxiell. Certainly not enough for a frontcourt.
I think it’s wishful thinking to have Samb making a meaningful contribution in 2008-2009. Look at the differences in praise that him and AJ get. Samb is always described as a natural athlete, a freak, instinctive, etc. Amir is described as not only a great athlete, but as having touch, skill, and being fluid.
Samb has the frame and natural tools to become at least a halfway decent player. But he’s physically and skillfully light-years away. The S&C coach at Barcelona is described as the “Arnie Kander of Spain,” so he would be getting some top notch instruction in that respect.
I think Dumars will keep Samb here and in Fort Wayne this year because it makes too much economic sense, especially considering that while the Spanish League is one of the best leagues in the world not called the NBA, Samb might not get playing time. Better to bring him over without negotiating a buyout, and to get him in an intense strength and conditioning program after the Summer League. Then give him a run in the preseason, and send him down to Fort Wayne with specific plans on what he needs to improve on his year.
Wasnt Samb hurt earlier in his season? Could maybe explain somewhat his conditioning not being great. I definitely agree about keeping him over here and letting him play at Ft Wayne. Maybe him and Traore can tag-team over there.
John,
Just read the article in the news about samb. The describe him as currently playing only with his natural abilities and that the nuances of the game are still something that he needs to pick up on. If this is the case then he obviously has the natural ability.
As for being light years away both physically and skill-wise, I would disagree with you.
Physically, he did put on 20lbs from last season and as Fel said, I am pretty sure he was injured for a considerable chunk of this past season.
Darko even put on 20-30 lbs of muscle in one season, and he doesn’t have 19 siblings and a widowed mother to push him to work hard.
I’m not saying that I think he will be ready by next season, only that he could be ready, and if so, that he could be more than just a serviceable player in the NBA.
Does anyone have clips of this guy?
It’s not much, but here’s a rebound and putback dunk from last summer. Watch how he originally spotted up for a pass, then kept moving and stuck his nose into a crowd for the rebound. A 7-footer who doesn’t need the ball to drop into his hands is a beautiful thing.
http://www.senebasket.com/-VIDEO-VIDEO-Toshiba-Vegas-Summer-League-Cheikh-SAMB-donne-la-victoire-aux-Pistons-de-Detroit_a182.html
He just sounds so raw. Only played basketball for 4 years? And allegedly he’s still growing. And come on, even Shaq could sustain a high level of effort for 4 quarters of a summer league game right now.
Clearly he has the tools and the knack for the game. But not only do I think it’s going to take him a while to be ready for the NBA, there’s no need for him right this moment. I think there’s very little reason for him to go back to Europe, given the mess it might be to get him out of there, but I wouldn’t expect him to contribute for a while.
That said, if Amir comes out and does well this year, it might speed up Samb’s development, since I’m sure showing that the Pistons can develop a project big man will get Samb to buy into The Piston Way even more than he would otherwise.
I’m watching the summer league game–
samb is listed at 7-1 and ONE NINETY FIVE
I don’t think we’ll be hearing from him this season.
That’s last year’s weight. Allegedly he’s around 215-220 now.
Others might know more about it, but one point I’ve heard is that his parent club in Spain may be reluctant to give him playing time in the higher leagues unless he commits to a long-term deal with a hefty buyout. So there may be a case for keeping him in the U.S.
Stuckey is played out of his mind. And Samb recorded a double double. Box score coming soon… game over in 1 min. playing time.
Mike - I just watched the game too. Stuckey was awesome. What I liked most was that most of his points were driving to the basket. Only 1 3-point attempt.
80-78 over the Grizz. Samb 12 and 10 on 6-9 shooting, with 7 fouls and 2 turnovers. Stuckey high man with 27 on 9-16 shooting, Maxiell 14 and 8, Afflalo 11 and 5, Mejia with only 2 but a strong defensive game.
Why are they not after Gerald Wallce? He could be are swingman, and give use some size on King James. Bobcats are offering 5 years 27 million. That a mid level!!! CALLLL HIMMMM!!!!!
Stuckey only had 2 assists but I can remember a few really nice passes that didnt turn directly into points. Plus only 2 TOs this game. He really looked in command this game.
Definitely seems that Samb still gets muscled around a bit from what I saw. Which admittedly I only saw a bit of the end of the first half and most of the second half.
Announcers were talking about Afflalo, saying that during the last game he asked the coach in the 4th quarter to let him guard Louis Williams, the guy who had been torching Detroit the whole game. Of course he went on to score 20pts from the 4th through OT so not sure at what point he guarded him and all that but least he wanted to guard the best player on the other side.
I really liked the game today. Although they didn’t finish out the game, I was really impressed at how well these guys are already playing together.
Some notes on the game:
+ Rodney Stuckey played great tonight. He had a great night and followed it up with an interview where he really displayed a damn good personality. I was really impressed all around.
+ I really liked Cheikh Samb and if you had watched the game, you should have realized that he was clearly bigger than 195. He needs to get in condition. He showed a great ability to play the game despite the lack of conditioning. He hooked up with Maxiell on a couple of massive baby eating dunks by Maxiell. Samb was strong on the offensive boards too.
+ Afflalo looked good too driving to the basket, but was coming up short on most of his outside shots. He got the stroke down at the end of the game hitting a big three.
+ Mejia played great D, along with Afflalo, on Rudy gay. They really locked him down for the majority of the game.
+ Maxiell ate lots of babies. LOTS OF BABIES!
Thats all that really needs to be known.
Samb had a great dish to Maxiell out of a double team that Max was able to throw down. A very good pass.
One more thing– there was a point in the 2nd quarter (I think) where Detroit was getting pretty well razzed by Memphis’ defense. So much so that Detroit threw the ball around hoping to find an open man, and it landed in Samb’s hands behind the 3 point arc– with 1 second left on the shot clock. He let it rip, and it barely, barely missed the hole. It bounced right off the rim. Honestly, the man has an offensive upside to him that will really shine if he plays in the D-league this year and perfects his shot. He’s got reach, size, hunger on the glass, and can put the ball in 10 feet away if he has to.
While I wasn’t impressed by Stuckey in game one, he played his heart out this game– and was totally cool. At one point, the announcers mentioned “he’s had the same look on his face the whole game!”. He was totally calm and collected, not unlike our very own Big Shot. But I am beginning to see the Wade connection. He attacks the basket. His decision making is a little poor, as I saw him attempt a few hail mary’s, but still– this kid connected on some very hard drives, and drew contact a lot more. Its too soon to call, but I did see the light tonight as to why Joe picked who he did in the draft.
Guys, we’ve got highlight videos at badboysummercamp.com for Games 1 & 2. LanierFan’s favorite internet Pistons fan, The Low, has been filming the game and coming up with a little more/better footage than we get on TV.
Here’s the latest one,
http://www.badboysummercamp.com/2007/07/10/2007-sl-game-2-video-highlights-detroit-vs-memphis/
@MattW, hope you don’t mind my posting this.
Samb should head to Ft. Wayne. He has about 2 years to do his thing in the NBDL. At that point, it’s sink or swim in the NBA.
Samb apparently was born in 1984. So was Carmelo Anthony.
Samb will be 23 by November.
Whatever he looks like, he’s still going to be rather raw to the Midwest and the United States, in terms of every day life.
By the time Cheikh is ready for the NBA, either next year or the year after, he’ll be 24 or 25 years old as a rookie. Give him another 2 years of NBA experience off the bench, and he’s suddenly 27.
If he adapts to a place like Ft. Wayne and then to Metro Detroit, the kind of player he’ll be . . . arguably . . . a tremendous backup center. If Detroit or any other team has to start him, he could be adequate, which is about what most NBA centers are in this age.
If, at least, he can clean up on the offensive board and be trusted to post-up a couple times a game without spawning a transition highlight dunk for the other team, then maybe this time spent on Samb was worth it.
I’m still looking for a solid starting center, either through the draft next year, or the next, or the next, or through a trade at any time.
There was a point during the game where Stuckey converted a difficult lay-up in traffic, then got sneaky and stole the inbounds pass for another lay-up. Sweet.
Mad Max is a monster, I really think Sheed should start at 5 and Max should start at 4. His intensity would rub off on everyone else. And when did he develop such a touch for a shot? I don’t remember him doing that in college.
So does anyone think Maxiell can play the 3, now being a svelt 230 lbs?
When Stuckey drives good things happen. I love it. Afflalo continues to impress me. Especially on the defensive end, but he surprises me offensively as well. I don’t expect a “stopper” to shoot, pass, or drive to the hole as well as he does.
Samb is disappointing to me. It looks like he’s got lead in his shoes when he runs. He shows flashes, but I’d send him back to Europe for another year.
He had that shot in college Adam. If anything, his first year as a Pistons saw him take a big step backwards, and then a small step back to who he is in year 2. I’m hoping for big things this year, as the Pistons are working with him on developing a low block game, and he is getting substantial work at that in the SL.
Anyone hear any Amir rumors? I just got a text from a friend saying $3 million, 10 years. 10?????? can’t be possible…
Anyone hear any Amir rumors? I just got a text from a friend saying $10 million three years… excuse my last comment if got through.
Here we go:
http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2007/07/pistons_close_to_locking_up_am.html
All right its the 11th. Lets get those contracts signed Chauncey and Amir. I wanna see Amir throw down some jams with Maxiell tonight or today or whatever you wanna call it.
Wow, I’m utterly shocked, I really am. Matt, you’ve GOTTA cover this historic event. The Pistons got love from Stien on ESPN. No, really I am not making this up. J-Max and the Sengalian Swatter both got a paragraph long shout out. I wouldn’t believe it if I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2932441
PistonsGirl
Its not just Stien but its hard to get love from any of the people from ESPN.
Pistons just re-signed Chauncey Billups…got the news from http://Detroitpistons.com
and in the SL clip someone put who is number 23? Is that Samb…if it is he does look awfully thin and tall…shades of Manute Bol, if you ask me..
Samb is nowhere near that skinny anymore. I dont think hes that far off from being of a similar size as Sheed especially if Arnie Kander gets to work on him this coming year.
Hopefully with Chauncey signed that means Amir will get signed soon. Hopefully before 6pm.
@Diablo: That is Samb. He looks to me like he doesn’t have a great understanding of the game, but he does seem to have those raw skills that everyone speaks of (soft touch, shot-blocking, big range, etc.) on a 7′1″ frame.
Anyone who saw the game ever read Rod Benson’s (#4 on the Grizz summer league team) blog? http://www.toomuchrodbenson.com/ I think it’s very funny. I’m a big fan of his blogging, not such a big fan of his (inconsistent) play.
Mike Conley already has my vote for ROY. Rodney Stuckey though, looks like he’s going to be an invaluable part of our bench for the foreseeable future, and that’s about all we can ask.
M. Noveck, you would vote for ROY without a single minute of NBA gametime? Isn’t that just a wee bit premature?
Manute Bol was 7′7″ and 210 lbs.
Cheikh Samb is 7′1″ and 215-225 lbs. That is a huge difference.
I don’t think that anyone is disagreeing on these points:
1) Cheikh needs to be in better condition to play in the NBA
2) Cheikh needs to be stronger to play in the NBA
3) Cheikh needs to put on weight to play in the NBA
4) Cheikh is not ready to play for the Pistons this season
So now that we’ve got that out of the way, lets look at what really matters:
Despite being light, out-of-condition, and weaker than the majority of the other big men in the summer league, Cheikh has done the following:
1) Shown a natural ability on the offensive end for scoring, passing, and rebounding
2) Shown a nice touch from 12 feet and in
3) Shown good footwork inside
4) Shown some flashes of a great sense for blocking shots
After seeing him play, I’m convinced that he has all the God-given talent and ability to play in the NBA and to do well. All he needs now is to get in better condition and add muscle to his frame.
I personally think that Cheikh should take the 15th roster spot and Mejia should be sent to the euro-leagues to hone his skills.
In a year from now, if Cheikh has put on another 20 lbs and has a full season in the NBDL under his belt, I think he will be ready for the NBA and ready to contribute in the 2008-09 season.
I’d also add that Cheikh showed an ability to roll off screens and finish around the basket, as well as good floor balance (Afflalo had two very pretty dishes to Samb for easy dunks.
Arghhh nothing on an Amir signing yet….I hope someone isnt swooping in with some insane rashard lewis type mega-deal.
Samb had a couple nice passes himself out of double teams
I would’ve given Mike Conley the ROY for whatever season was his rookie year after I got to watch him play for Lawrence North in Indy. I was a student at Indiana University for the four years Conley and Oden were in high school. I was way more impressed with Conley than Oden. Not to say Oden isn’t going to be a good NBA player or stud or whatever, but guys could match Conley physically (unlike Oden) in every level of ball he has played, and he would absolutely clown them. His vision coupled with precision is phenomenal.
Of course what I’m saying is totally premature, but I’m so high on Conley, I’m really more excited to see him playing signifcant NBA minutes than Amir Johnson. Saying that kills me in 2 ways (Detroit bias should be for AJ at all costs and being a Big 10 guy from a mostly UM family, who grew up at the Big House but can’t help but love Conley while absolutely loathing OSU). So yes Microwave, it’s completely premature, but let’s give Conley the ROY trophy right now.
Samb is a 22 year old Chuck Nevitt. Nothing personal but James B, where are you coming up with this “good footwork” on the inside? Basically he blocks 2 shots a game, if he doesn’t block it, its a foul or a layup. That’s not good considering there’s probably 30+ shots in the paint. “Good sense for blocking shots”? Maybe against the Euros.
His range was pretty sweet when he hit the rim from 15′ feet and it didn’t go in. That was pretty sweet. 2 pts?!?! Samb is not ready for the NBA. Just let him go back to Europe for another year then reassess. Right now, he’s pretty bad… and if he doesn’t put on 20+ pounds he’s essentially useless.
Can you really imagine him against Shaq or Mourning? or a PJ Brown?!?!? I mean PJ Brown!!! He’d get schooled by PJ Brown, a very old used-to-be-average PF.
Samb’s got the Tyson Chandler frame. Exactly.
That’s what I’m hoping for, which is kind of funny to me because I read how much Chicago fans didn’t like him, but what Chandler did for New Orleans last year is exactly what that guy was capable and intended. Chicago had different vision for him, and whatever that was ended when he got mono and slugged through a bad season at half power.
Chandler costs way too much for his own good. Whoever signed him that deal should have stepped back a bit. Outside of his price tag, Chandler’s a pretty decent defensive player. His only weakness is the thin frame vs. the Shaqs of the land.
If Samb could concentrate on defense, then he’s halfway to being a quality reserve at center in the NBA. You just can’t find a 6′11 - 7′2 250 - 300 lbs. big guy who can move fast enough and play well enough without the ball these days. Most guys have some limitation in height or weight / frame.
For what it’s worth and at this point I’m really not sure it’s very much, but do all the people saying “Send him back to Europe” remember who our coach is? I mean jeeze, we’ve probably got at least 5 roster spots Flip has no intention of actually making use of. I can’t see what it’d hurt to send Samb to Ft. Wayne and stuff him full of Rally burgers and American style basketball for a year. Lord knows he won’t learn how to be an NBA big in Europe.
LOL, Samb with Rally burgers. Goes from 230 lbs. to 315 over the course of one year. Has the stamina to match . . . 5 consecutive minutes on the floor, and he’s wheezing.
PG4L makes a point that Ronzone made when they drafted him. Once he starts eating American food he’ll balloon the way DaSagana Diop did.
From what I see, Samb can be a really good defensive-minded backup center (a la Diop) in a few years. Not bad for a second round pick.
Chandler had a nice season last year. He looked for his own shot a little more, and cut down on turnovers as a result.
About American food. Samb is not going to get better by getting fat. He will, however, benefit from (real) training and intense nutritional analysis. He would benefit from being in America, but where is he at? He hasn’t played much real basketball. Skinniness can be chronic.
He’s a long shot, so I am not expecting much.
Bummer that the Bobcats decided to do the sensible thing and resign Wallace. That’s looking like a playoff team next year. Piston food, certainly, but a playoff participant nonetheless.
Brad,
He showed good footwork on a number of plays in the second game.
1) he used good footwork on the left side of the paint and made a nice hook shot over his guy
2) Showed good footwork, pivoting out of a double team for a pass to Maxiell for the dunk
3) Showed good footwork when rolling off a screen and taking a dish from Afflalo for a dunk
I find it funny that you keep bringing up how he’s not NBA ready as if that was what I was arguing. Maybe if you paid attention to my post, you’d realize that I explicitly stated that he is not NBA ready.
If you are going to disagree with me, fine. Just make sure you understand what my stance is before you do.
James B., I couldn’t agree more.
@Brad. Did you watch games one and two? Or just game three. Samb did struggle a bit tonight, but he did have some flashes. Like when he made a clean, nothing but net basket from just over 15 feet, then immediately got a steal at the other end of the court?
Game 2, Samb played huge. And in the 1st quarter of game 1, he played the lights out, and didn’t do bad teh rest of his time.
Samb may not be a starting center, nor may he see real minutes in 2006-07, but the man has been nothing BUT impressive in the summer league. At the very least, he deserves our mutual credit for his play so far. And I won’t even weigh in the fact that he’s only played ball for 4 years…
LOL, Darko to Memphis for 21 million. Apparently Memphis will be horrible for the next 10 years, now that West is finished there.
How does Mejia look at the SF position? A report I read said JoeD drafted him more at the position than at PG.
In regards to Darko, Damn, it feels good to be a (Serbian) Gangsta.
imo Mejia has looked ok. Hes played some good d and made some good plays. Apparently theres some questions about his shooting and foot-speed and I guess he’s not known as a rebounder, all things he can work on to some extent. Overall hes looking pretty solid. Id like to see him in preseason against a bit better opposition.
JB, Samb is closer to Chuck Nevitt than Diop at this point. So if that’s what you mean by “NBA ready”, and if that’s what you want, then I guess you’re right. He does have good enough footwork to make it in the NBA. Its pretty amazing how you focused on 12 seconds of his playing time and forgot the other 24 minutes. Let me remind you his stats… 6 total rebounds, and 2 points. And you pointed out the EXACT play he scored those 2.
I understand your point. He screams “project” and “potential” and you’re willing to use a roster spot on a guy who needs to add 20+ pounds. Let me state my point: he’s NOT READY(as you pointed out as well) so DON’T waste a roster spot on him. Send him back to Europe.
Here’s the quote from Darko’s agent after signing with Memphis:
“We are extremely excited for this new opportunity,” agent Marc Cornstein is quoted as saying on the Web site. “Darko’s going to a team that really wants him. He’s going to a young team with an exciting bright future, much like his own. We’re very excited Darko gets to learn from coach Marc Iavaroni. We believe he’s one of the best big men coaches in the game. And we couldn’t be happier that he has found a new home where he’s appreciated.” (copied & pasted from the Detroit News)
Sounds a lot like when he arrived in Orlando, doesn’t it?
Mike, Yes, I’ve seen every play of the 3 games. Yes Samb’s range and touch have surprised me. Explain to me why we need a 7′1″ C 15′ away from the basket? We don’t. Rip, Tey, Sheed or Webber can take those shots. Is it a bad thing that he can hit those? I guess not, except it seems he prefers to shoot a fade away 10 footer than slam it.
Fact is we need a deep post presence, and I don’t think he’ll EVER get there. Even if he puts on 50 lbs. You can look at his height, weight, arm span, etc all you want, but I don’t see him being very aggressive which is mandatory play in the post. Anyone remember Shawn Bradley?
Sure I remember Bradley. And Nevitt. What’s keeping you from invoking Manute Bol while you’re at it? What’s an extra inch when you’re so obviously trying to exaggerate Samb’s frailty?
Samb had a bad game. So have a lot more heralded talents. But the 15th spot on the roster isn’t being held by any superstars. Samb probably will benefit more from the D-League than Europe, because his parent team in Spain is unlikely to move him to higher-tier competition without a long term commitment. That is the only real issue, instead of pointless bashing. He’s not a bum and he’s not a starter. But he is an asset worth developing.
Come on. Pointless bashing? Because I don’t think he cuts the mustard? Stuckey, Afflalo, Maxiell, Amir all look like great prospects. You don’t see me “bashing” them.
My “bashing” actually has a point… you just don’t want to see that it has merit. I “exaggerate” his frailty because it IS an issue. It’s a BIIIIIIIG issue. If you want him to bang, fine, send him to the D-league. Personally I wouldn’t until next year. I’d give that extra spot to Mejia while Mr. Bol/Nevitt/Bradley is doing 3-a-day workouts with the Spanish league’s best weight trainer. Then I’d have an extra spot for him when we finally ditch Flip Murray’s contract.
i’ve been impressed with all three of our starting 5. even mejia. that over the shoulder pass to maxiell was a thing of beauty. i would like to see all of them in detroit at the start of training camp. if this emphasis on competition thing saunders was blah-blahing about is legit.
i meant all 5 of our 5. please forgive….
Brad, instead of continuing to have douchechills over the fact that some people here may be excited about Cheikh Samb why not look at the fact Samb may be worth a 15th roster spot, if Detroit does not have anyone else. If you remember, DJ Mbenga was a center on a Mavericks team that went to the Finals.
He contributed nothing more than fouls on Shaq… who cares what Samb does, he’s obviously a project.
Fwiw, i was joking about the Rally Burgers. It’s a known fact that the Pistons have one of the best strength/conditioning staff’s in the NBA. Their doctor’s are pretty damn good too and more than qualified to help Samb get his weight up.
As for the 15th roster spot again I say to you quite simply… Do you know who coaches the Pistons? Have you seen this man control a rotation?
That’s entirely putting ASIDE the fact that the vast majority of NBA coaches wouldn’t play all 15 guys on the roster during a season unless forced to. The one guy who does? Doc Rivers and you can ask Bill Simmons how that’s worked out for the Celtics.
I don’t mind your personality Brad but i’m a little mystified as to why you think the 15th roster spot on a team with championship asperations that also is coached by a man who doesn’t trust his rotation at all is so damn valuable that it can’t be wasted on a kid who’s 7 FOOT FREAKING 1 and will be making almost NOTHING to do so.
Just, doesn’t make sense hon.
Fel - I’ve been on a Geto Boys kick as of late.
I the rest of the league minus Detroit can sum their season up with “Mind Playing Tricks on Me.”
Interestingly enough, EVERYONE has Cheikh Samb on the brain. True Hoop has two seperate opinions after the Washington game from Pro Scouts and one from Henry Abbot….
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-26-32/Scout-Sambwich.html
thing is, brad, you probably wouldn’t be able to send him to the d-league next year if you wanted to. he’s not going to get the “Spanish league’s best weight trainer” unless he’s playing in Spain’s best league. and he’s not going to play in Spain’s best league unless he signs a long-term contract with a big buyout. it’s better to use that 15th spot on him this year and send him down than have to buy him out next year just to do the same thing.
Because we really relied on Horace Jenkins in the 15 spot in 04-05. And Dupree was oft-played last year.
To unmystify things. Mejia is better than Samb right now. I can actually conceive of Mejia contributing this season if we had to put him on the floor.
What I don’t get is everyone here says that Samb isn’t NBA ready, so we agree on that, but yet some of you say in the same breath “Bring him to the NBA.” aka give him the last roster spot. Putting him in the NBDL won’t make him bigger, and you don’t learn how to post when everyone else at your position outweighs you by 30 lbs. He’ll just get pushed around like a rag doll. I fail to see how being everyone else’s practice dummy will improve Samb’s post moves.
Do me a favor. Instead of watching Samb when he has the ball. Watch him when he doesn’t… when he’s trying to establish the deep post. He gets pushed around like crazy. In a sense he’s got 2 things working against him, A) his high center of gravity makes it harder to push people out of the way. and B) He’s too light. Center of gravity wouldn’t matter so much if he weighed 300+ like Shaq… but he doens’t.
So in short… give Mejia the 15th spot. Send him to the NBDL, pull him back if necessary. Pump Samb full of Protein shakes and Creatin with 3-a-day workout sessions in Spain. Next year let the bigger badder Samb learn how to establish the post in the NBDL.
PG4L thanks for the link. I’ve never been so unhappy to be validated.
Hrmm, we must not have read the same article because i saw one guy say “send him back to europe” and one guy say “keep him here and send him to Ft Wayne”… unless of course you consider yourself validated by Henry Abbot’s opinion.
That having been said… validation =! the internet. I mean, 4really.
As a final point in the discussion (which has clear become a personal mission for some of us here), “That’s cool, I think the 7′1″ kid is the better project myself. I mean a SG/SF would have to be REALLY REALLY freaking amazing to break out of the 2nd round in his first year, otherwise he’s just another guy. Finally again, stop wishing for a world where Flip Saunders isn’t the Piston’s coach… #15 is NOT seeing play, period, not this year at all, so it doesn’t matter in the SLIGHTEST if pick #57 COULD play for us. He won’t.”
Now, thanks but i’m withdrawing from this conversation. I really REALLY like this site, mostly because i believe it showcases how informed, knowledgeable and MATURE Detroit Piston’s fans are online than others. Sadly this topic now borders on “What I read on Lakers boards”. Not interesting anymore.
Amir has been resigned!
3 yrs at 12 million
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2934290
Our long national nightmare is over. Amir Johnson is back in the fold, 3 years, $12 million.
Arghh it was to late for him to play though today. Jaaber hasnt looked to bad. I wouldnt mind seeing him play at Ft Wayne. Looks like they couldve used Maxiell this afternoon. Of course he mightve been holding down Amir to make him sign his contract. Blalock got sweet sweet revenge on us today. Anyways, heres hoping for an Amir quadruple double on saturday.
Brad,
I think the only person here who is mystified is you. The four points I made in my last post were from his game against Memphis where his stats were not 6 boards and 2 points but 10 boards and 12 points. Not only that but he did it on 6 of 9 shooting.
Then there is your point about how Samb shouldn’t be shooting 15 foot jumpers as if that was his primary way of scoring. Last time I checked most of Sambs points are coming off of dunks and moves inside, not 15 foot jumpers.
Then you keep bringing up about how I say he’s not NBA ready but that we should spend our 15th roster spot on him. What you can’t seem to figure out is that NBA ready and NBDL ready are two completely different things.
Cheikh is ready for the NBDL and would benefit more so from the NBDL than he would from the Spanish league.
Furthermore, timing is right to bring him now. Send Mejia over to europe and let him play there for a year or two. He’ll be easy to sign after his first contract is up than Samb would be if Samb had to sign with his team in the Spanish league again.
Now, you claim that Mejia is better. You claim that you could see him playing for the Pistons and contributing this year. I haven’t seen much from Mejia. He hasn’t been bad, but he hasn’t been brilliant either, far from it.
Why should we all prove to you that Samb is better off taking the 15th spot while you sit there and try to debunk our arguments by not listening to them and referencing Chuck Nevitt multiple times?
Tell us all why Sammy Mejia is the one that deserves that spot.
Oh and saying that Cheikh Samb doesn’t deserve it so therefore Sammy Mejia does is not a valid argument.
I like how the national media is ready to write off the Pistons, and here we are having passionate arguments about the 14th and 15th spot on the roster.
Gosh darn frickin NBATV!!!! They’re carrying the Memphis v. Minnesota game instead of the Pistons v. Lakers on Saturday!
What the $hit is that? I hate watching the live feed cuz the picture is terrible. Oh well, I will do what I must to see Amir.
Hey here’s something to think about.
Could Maxiell play the 3 and the 4? I realize that this wouldn’t work in all situations but I’m just trying to make sense out of why he’d drop 25 lbs without being asked by the coaches.
He definitely looks a lot quicker out there without the extra weight and he’s got the wingspan and size to play D on some of the 3’s in the East despite not being quite as quick and fast as them.
On offense he’d be a pure mismatch no matter who’s guarding him. Most 3’s would be too small to D him up on the post and most 4’s would be too slow to guard him outside.
He’s shown a pretty good ability to make a strong move to the hoop and finish. I think he should work with Tay on the baby skyhook a bit and then he’d be all set.
Anyways, it’d be an interesting line up to have Stuckey, Tayshaun, Maxiell, Amir, and Sheed in there…can you imagine those guys playing zone?
Amen John…at least the passion runs right on through the off season though…a lot of NBA franchises don’t make it past December before their fans become disinterested.
Check out both Recaps of Philly vs Detroit and Wash vs Detroit. There’s some good highlights of Mejia in both, better ones in the Philly game, but the pass to Maxiell in the Wash game was VEEERY nice as well.
http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp_i=1&sp_q=%22nbacom/%22&sp_a=sp10038c44&sp_k=wmvasf&sp_p=phrase&sp_n=10&sp_s=postdate&sp_f=ISO-8859-1&sp_t=video
Here’s a recap of the Memphis game where Mejia dishes to your man Samb. Also remember that Mejia had to guard Rudy Gay. There’s also a very nice Grizzly dunk over your boy.
http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp_i=1&sp_q=%22nbacom/%22&sp_a=sp10038c44&sp_k=wmvasf&sp_p=phrase&sp_n=51&sp_s=postdate&sp_f=ISO-8859-1&sp_t=video
Just to update, Amir’s actual deal is three years a 3.6 million per (= 10.8 million) according to DetNews.com & freep.com
i never said that Samb was exactlly like Bol but to ME he seems rather thin. He must of been REALLY thin a year ago but then again thats just me…he definately could use some more poundage on him, no one can disagree w/ me on that. If we are going to load this guy up w/ Rally Burgers, we mine as well throw in some Koney Island as well…lol
But seriously tho, he is not ready for the NBA and personaly, i wouldnt use the 15th roster spot on him. But knowing that Flip Saunders has a strict rotation going on, he’ll probably never see the light of NBA action through out the whole season, even if he was at the 10 roster spot. That being said, if people are so strong about this guy, then send him down to the DL and see what he can do…but i wouldnt put all my faith into him but you never know.
Also what happened to that guy everyone was talking about…Acker?
And can anyone help me out? Ive had problems getting the video from NBA TV to show up…im getting the sound but not the video…
That’s a good contract for Amir. He’s basically getting paid what a Top 5 pick would get.
@Brad:
Let’s say Flip Saunders actually gets really kinky and points his finger at the 15 spot on the bench. Looking at our current roster, what position player would you rather have sitting there waiting?
Presently, the Pistons have 3 centers on their roster– Nazr Mohammed, Dale Davis, and Chris Webber. It is arguable that on day one of Detroit’s 2007-2008 season, we’ll have only one of them left- Nazr Mohammed. Yes, Rasheed can play the 5, but we’ve all argued this point to death- he doesn’t want to, although we can expect him to put in just a few minutes in that spot.
Now that spot that Flip Saunders avoids, the extended bench, who do we want there? Lets say Nazr rips his calf and ‘Sheed boycotts any word that starts with a “c”. What are we to do? Call Mejia from the D-League and tell him he gets to start at the 5?
Yeah, Samb is not “ready” for NBA minutes. But I’d rather have a 7′1″ stick figure in Ft. Wayne, waiting for a recall, than someone to put behind Hamilton, Stuckey, and Afflalo at the 2 spot, and Prince and Afflalo at the 3.
“But Samb has cancer, and hates freedom, and secretly loves the Spurs.”
I know, I know, Brad. Samb is evil. The dev-il. But my point to all of this, necessity is the “Center” of our focus come game one. If Nazr decides he wants a permenant Ramadan, is Chauncey going to help us fill the gap at center?
I say develop that beanpole at all costs.
I think Flip has a mandate to play the bench this year, and I think said mandate is stronger than the need to win in the regular season (to the extent those ends are mutually exclusive).
As far as the roster goes, here is what I have.
Billups
Hamilton
Prince
Wallace
Mohammed
McDyess
Maxiell
Johnson
Murray
Stuckey
Spellcheck
Dupree?
Davis?
Webber?
Mejia?
Samb?
Hunter?
Hard to see Samb not making it under these circumstances, unless I am making a glaring error.
Davis is not under contract or coming back. Webber is not under contract and shouldn’t come back (if he wants to be able to walk when he’s 40). Spellcheck? Dupree, when given minutes in the past has actually played pretty well. We like to chastise him, but we traded for the guy and signed him to a two year deal, so Joe must have some faith in him…I’d rather him see minutes than Flipper. We still have just under 3 million under the cap after Amir signed…that MIGHT be enough to woo a player like Chris Mihm…do we really want CHRIS MIHM? This is our team - like it or not…and remember too, we may not like the package, but if you look at the numbers Nazr put up the same stats as CWebb when he got minutes, and played MUCH better D.
where the f are matt and ian? it’s like the inmates running the asylum. 84 comments on a generic summer league post should hint that people want some pistons talk! and amir johnson aka “the future” just re-signed and reportedly turned down MORE money to play for the WORLD CHAMPS. i couldn’t love that kid more.
now STEAL travis outlaw from the blazers and we’ll have a team.
Kevin S, you forgot Afflalo - but you are right…I can’t imagine Samb being much worse than signing some stiff for 3 million and having HIM sit on the end of the bench (D.Davis is a legit NBA player who had a pretty solid career and he didn’t get any run) and at least he’ll play better competition in the d-league and hopefully be ready to fight for minutes next year with more experience in an NBA type game. We are all giddy about Amir right now, but he was skinny and unprepared for the NBA 2 years ago and the dl helped him iron out his game.
UPDATE YOUR WEBSITE! a lot has been happening this past week and this site has failed to remained up-to-date.
To sign Outlaw, we would need to move Flip Murray and offer the entire midlevel and dare Portland to match it. Basically, we need to do to Portland what some people thought a team might to do us with Amir.
Getting rid of Flip might be the key move in being able to use the entire midlevel on a back-up SF. Remember not only do you have to pay the tax if you go over, but you can’t get any of the tax payout either, so it’s a big financial hit to go over by even $1.
Ime Udoka or Matt Barnes might be a better option.
Billups
Hamilton
Prince
Wallace
Mohammed
McDyess
Maxiell
Johnson
Murray (will probably get moved somehow)
Stuckey
Spellcheck
Dupree?
Davis? (won’t come back)
Webber? (won’t come back)
Mejia?
Samb?
Hunter? (may retire and move into front office)
To me, there’ll probably be two roster spots free. Alex Acker? A Free Agent? Laron Profit?
Who thinks we overpaid for Chauncey?
Oops, wrong thread.
i was under the impression that Dale Davis, Flip Murray, and Lindsay Hunter all planned on exercising their player options and come back…so the only way that they wouldn’t be on the team is if we cut them/traded them.
Lindsey is under contract at $2.5 million. However, it is expected that he will retire. Flip exercised his option, and is under contract for one more year at $1.89 million. He would have to traded. And Davis’ contract is over, he’s a free agent. The Pistons have somewhere in the neighborhood of $65 million committed in payroll for next year.
Info from http://www.pistonsforum.com/view-pistonssalaries.html
Game 3 Highlight Video is up folks,
http://www.badboysummercamp.com/2007/07/13/2007-sl-game-3-video-highlights-detroit-vs-washington/
Lindsey Hunter, you’re a sieve.
And you churn out badly missed three-pointers.
If he doesn’t retire, he’d better be 13,14, or 15, because his miserable shot selection usually destroys momentum or widens an opponent’s lead.
And this is from someone who likes Lindsey Hunter. But the past two seasons…yeesh.
Know when it’s over, already.
Peter Shrager on what he’s liked in the VSL…
“The Detroit Pistons backcourt of Rodney Stuckey and Arron Afflalo. Wow. When I met Stuckey the day before the draft in a Times Square hotel, I discovered a humble, confident young man. That calmness certainly carries over to the basketball court. Stuckey slices to the hoop with ease and runs the point guard spot like a seasoned veteran. In Monday night’s game with Memphis, Stuckey drove to the elbow, attracted three men, and ended up scoring and drawing a foul in what felt like a flash. He’d finish with 27 that day. The constant Dwyane Wade comparisons may be a bit much, but he certainly has game. Afflalo’s been the perfect complement. The UCLA All-American has averaged 15.3 points over three games and played the superb defense he became known for at UCLA. Yes, Billups and Hamilton will be the starting backcourt in Detroit next year. But with these two coming off the bench, the Pistons starting guard combo can actually come out of the game.”
birdbrain: there’s no such thing as over-paying for an elite point-guard in the NBA. didn’t you get the (agent) memo?
rashard lewis, 115 million. we are all witnesses. i know picking on orlando is probably old and tired at this point, but they keep loading the gun and pointing it at themselves.
as for the inmates running the asylum, that’s truly ironic. there are guards, there are inmates, and then there are the rats. i think someone’s confused at least one for the an other.
this team won’t win another ’ship until a few years after bill davis is dead and buried, at the soonest. if we had kept LB, ’sheed would be wearing three rings right now.
G-thang, you can always overpay for any position, especially when the player in question is over 30 years old. I have no problem with Dumars giving Chauncey that sort of contract… if there were other teams that were bidding for Mr. Billups’ services. However, the Pistons were essentially bidding against themselves. Couldn’t Dumars haven’t gotten a better deal?
I think the Billups deal was good for both sides. If Dumars may have squeezed a few million less out of Billups but the team would quickly get a reputation as cheap and unwilling to sign players to compete. You can’t get the bargain chips like Webber last year to play for your team if you have a reputation as a miser around the league. The framework of the Billups deal was set when the Pistons choose not to resign Ben Wallace. Any short term benefit of negotiating Billups down further (it was discussed last year that he might be due a max deal this year) would have been a big loser in the long term with other Piston free agents and free agents around the league.
“where the f are matt and ian? it’s like the inmates running the asylum. 84 comments on a generic summer league post should hint that people want some pistons talk!”
“UPDATE YOUR WEBSITE! a lot has been happening this past week and this site has failed to remained up-to-date.”
“as for me, I’m currently vacationing in northern Michigan FOR THE WEEK and am relegated to accessing the internet through a very small and inconsistent trickle of mobile broadband. In the meantime, feel free to discuss any and all things Summer League in the comments of this post. My lack of seeing a game prevents me from adding anything intelligent to the conversation,”
“Published by
Matt Watson
July 9, 2007″
This has been a public service announcement from random americans for internet literacy.
Also, fwiw… Chauncey at 60.5 over five with the fifth year being a team option is an absolute steal. We could have and WOULD have paid ALOT more if anyone had any cap room. 15 Million was not out of the question before last trade deadline.
Now, could one argue that EVERY single legit NBA starter making “legit” NBA starting money is horribly overpaid and the system is practically designed to create salary cap disasters year after year… under those circumstances yeah I’d say we overpaid for Chauncey.
In modern NBA terms however, he’s a bargain.. which I guess is kinda sad.
any news for alex acker? why is it He is not in the roster summer league?
I think our future looks bright with 4 seemingly nice young pieces in the fold with Stuckey, Afflalo, Amir and Maximus. But am I the only one concerned that most of our probable key bench players, with the exception of Dyess, are basically all rookies. This will be Amir’s 1st year of action so I consider him a rookie also. Maximus will be in his 2nd year of contribution. I agree that youth needs to be served this year, but I wish there was some way that all that youth didn’t have to be in the game together. Although, I like the youth option over Lindsey and Flip, that’s for sure.
Maximus looks great on the VSL highlights. He’s a monster as usual with the dunks but the touch on the J looks really really good. I’d love for him to get serious burn the first part of the season with Dyess and the sleepy knees and Nazr fasting the first few weeks of the season. I hope he takes advantage of that opportunity to shine right out the gate. I’m predicting 13 and 8, with 2 blocks and 75% FT shooting this year for Max.
welcome back, amir! nice game. and nice haircut.
lee: “any news for alex acker? why is it He is not in the roster summer league?”
The Pistons have pretty much decided that they don’t need to see Acker in the VSL to make a decision on him. They have three options I think: bring him back to the states, keep his rights but let him stay in Europe, or renounce him and let him go. The consensus is that the Pistons know what his game is, where his development is at, and forcing him to play in a few summer league games against the type of competition present is not worth it.
VSL is over and the youngters and coach Porter did a great Job!!! Amir tonight is a monster… Mejia have proven bright things to come, now its up to Flip to turn up the gear up…. training camp is on the way.
Any Rumors about Joe D plans for the rest of the team?
GMs are scratching their heads about Stuckey, I love it. Thanks Goodness we have Joe D.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=vegasnotesstuckeygibson
E-Double…I agree we have a VERY young bench…and I for one LOVE IT. It is rare for any team to sub more than 1 or 2 players at a time, so there should almost alwasy be 2 or more of the following (Rip, Big Shot, Sheed, Tay & McD - who is like a starter w/Nazr at Center) on the court at all times…which gives us a shot of energy and the ability to maintain a high level of intensity through the WHOLE GAME–not just the 4th quarter. While I doubt we’ll see much of Stuckey and Afflalo on the court at the same time, I think that if we have Stuckey/Rip/Dupree/Max/Sheed on the court in the 2nd and Chauncey/Afflalo/Tay/Amir/McD in the 3rd…that is TOUGH to handle and keeps us fresh….now we have to see if Flipper will actually DO it.
Tyler, I love your suggested use of the bench there. Nice comibinations. It definately appeases my concern of too much youth in the game at once. Your rotation suggests going 11 deep (the 4 horseman, Dyess and Dupree off the bench). Flip wouldn’t use an 11 man rotation with regularity. I don’t know if I would want him to actually. That means 1 or 2 guys probably aren’t getting enough minutes to get a nice flow going. I really see no use for Depree. Ok, maybe as a defensive specialist in certain situations for 5-10 mins a game, since he is 6-7 or 6-8 and athletic. I’d rather Maximus stays at the weight he’s at now and allow him to split the backup SF minutes with Afflalo. Since we have 5 nice options off the bench (excluding Dupree) I don’t see why any starter needs to average more than about 30 mins a game. Seriously this time. They could all remain fresh and well rested with proper use of the bench.
I was one of those people calling to blow up the team 2 months ago. But now that I’ve calmed down and our roster is taking form, maybe Joe’s right. We just needed tweaking. McDyess missed one game and three of the losses were really close. We man handled Chicago (although we lost focus for 2 games) and if we played with some fire we could have beat Cleveland. Imagine our same squad but playing with the desire and hunger of 2004. None of our guys are dinnosaurs. Playing 30 mins per game, maybe we can get that fire back from them.