Kelly Dwyer, who’s filling in at TrueHoop for a vacationing Henry Abbott, spotted this Chris Webber quote buried at the very bottom of a Boston Globe article:
When asked if Detroit had a shot at a title next season, Webber added: “Definitely. We have the talent and experience, and leadership in Joe Dumars. We’ll definitely be contenders. It’s going to be interesting to see [how the East shapes up]. We’re going to have to wait and see what happens with [Kevin Garnett] or Shawn [ Marion] or whoever comes over. I know it’s going to be better basketball if the talent is dispersed evenly in both conferences.”
Okay, if C-Webb was seriously thinking about either retiring or joining another team (the Mavericks?), then why is he so generous with the first-person plural (that’s “we,” for the non-English majors in the house) when talking about the Pistons’ chances next year? At the risk of reading too much into this, I’m starting to think the odds of his re-signing with the Pistons this summer are far greater than I previously thought.
After watching him lumber through the playoffs, I can’t say I’m terribly excited about him returning next year … but by the same token, I don’t think anyone is terribly excited about re-launching the Nazr Mohammed Era, either. And considering the team apparently won’t be spending any free agent money on a backup for Tayshaun Prince, there’s probably room in the budget and on the roster for Webber to come back.
What say you? Is bringing him back a) a good move, b) the better of two evils, or c) none of the above?
It’s a good idea if he is going to handle the timeouts for the Pistons. Other than that, naaahhhh….I’d rather see the Samb fella play. Webber would be ok as a coach/player to teach the young kids all the things you should not do.
Maybe Webber was starting a trendy sportsblog by using ‘we’
I’m fine with C-Webb coming back providing they keep him on ice for most of the regular season and nurse him along. This team can get into the playoffs without him. If they can rest him (like the Spurs do somewhat with Robert Horry) then Webber could actually be semi-useful and productive in the playoffs when we REALLY NEED him to produce.
I don’t know if “terribly excited” would describe how I felt about it, but I was looking forward to the relaunch of the Nazr Mohammed era. I’m from the camp that thinks he didn’t get a fair shake and also didn’t get to enjoy the benefit from the emergence of Dice in the second half of the season like Webber did.
If Webber’s going to sign a minimum-type deal because he’s still collecting from the Sixers, then that’s fine, I suppose. If he wants to tack on a second year option, that’s fine too if the price is reasonable. After watching most of the summer league games I’m really just focusing my excitement on Stuckey’s everything and Afflalo’s defense. I’m apathetic about Webber. I’d still like to see us look into going after Barnes or Pietrus. Does anyone have any sort of update on that?
Also, my sincere congrats go out to Chucky (who I imagine is still a favorite among us) for signing with the Nuggets. I like the fit, and I’ve always like watching the Nugs on League Pass.
depends on how cheap. and i’m fairly certain he wouldn’t re-sign with us for bench minutes. he’s expecting to be a starter. and history shows when his minutes slack, his poutiness grows.
In all seriousness, I’m for it - maybe move Nazr for a solid SF.
Webber will be ok if he’s fine with playing 15 minutes per game and doesnt see any crunch time minutes.
To be honest, I never really thought Nazr got a fair shake, either — I never really understood why he was relegated to just 15 minutes a game, not being allowed to play through any mistakes. But I think Noveck nailed it: I’m pretty apathetic about either guy.
What I’d really like to see is Sheed move over and let Maxiell start … but that’ll never happen.
he will not be ok with that. unless we go 82-0, and fo’,fo’,fo’, fo’. and even then.
and i don’t know who they’re going to trade nazr for. that is really crappy contract for a player who SEVERELY underperformed. you gotta trade for someone else’s garbage and hope it turns into gold. flip murray is moveable. but nazr? he’ll probably be a piston come ramadan.
I think the best thing the Pistons can do with Nazr is make him the starter again and give him some minutes to build up trade value.
I don’t really see what everyone had against Nazr either though. If you look at his stats, sure they don’t look good at all for a starting center, but that’s because he only played 15 minutes a game. Given starter minutes (say 34 minutes a game), his averages would be approximately the following (of course this is hypothetical and making the assumption that he’d consistently hit his numbers for the following 19 minutes, but I’d say this is a better measure than his stat line for the season):
12.5 PPG (or per 34 minutes)
10.07 RPG (or per 34 minutes)
1.79 BPG (or per 34 minutes)
As a starter, I would take those numbers any day considering we have Sheed at PF, and one of the best backcourts in basketball, but he wasn’t ever given much of a chance to succeed.
I agree on the fair shake. Brand new offense, the only new addition to the team AND it’s a highly guard oriented team. What did they expect him to do? And I never understood how he went from 15 minutes to “you might as well go get a beer”. But I never understood Flip’s choices on players and their playing times.
If Webber can come back on the cheap and is willing to have his playing time reduced (hopefully even some dnp’s thrown in for rest), then I think he’s a very good guy to have on the team. But man, he needs to limit the amount of miles he puts on those legs this season if he’s going to be successful.
James: those aren’t bad numbers, but I’ll also mention he committed 2.6 fouls in 15 minutes of action, which puts him at 5.8 in 34 minutes. At one point he said he was more aggressive with his fouls because he knew he wouldn’t be playing the entire game, but still, I’m not entirely sure how much I buy that versus him just being a step slow on defense.
I’d like to see Chris come back for another season. The Pistons went 15-3 when he first came last year, and he seemed to play well until he got the flu. Chris and McDyess bring that desperation for a ring, and this team needs some urgency to get it done.
the desperation for a ring has been there for 2 seasons with Dice and it hasn’t really helped ALTHOUGH he, at times, has seemed to give more effort than most.
my first comment about knitting and needles didnt go through?
I hope CWebb comes back, but only if he’s ready to accept Danny Manning or Derrick Coleman (max Elden Campbell) type minutes. If you start him? Max 20 mins a night which will leave 28 for Amir, Nazr, Max, Dice along with the 18-22 you’ll get from Sheed’s spot. Webb’s losing steam.
Is it “tips his hand” or “tips his hat?” I never could figure that out.
“Step slow on Defense” (def.): always late on rotations, lacking the ability to stay with ones opponent, a severe liability against any offensive player with a pulse. See also Chris Webber (since 2002)
Boney: knitting needles? Guess it didn’t go through.
Rob: “tips his hand” probably comes from a poker reference (ie, letting someone see your cards), “tips his hat” is a show of respect. So those are two distinct sayings.
Tyler: touche.
I wonder if the bigger news isn’t C-Webb talking about the Pistons getting Garnett or Marion. It would explain the lack of signings beyond the rookies and Billups - Dumars is getting his ducks in a row for a big deal and needs every nickel he can squeeze to make it happen.
joejoejoe: I just took that to mean KG or Marion might be coming to the East, making the conference as a whole more competitive.
Disturbingly enough, I’m starting to hope C-Webb comes back… though like everyone else I really only want him as a backup option if things don’t work out…
But that’s the big problem right there. Reading the post above this makes it VERY clear that Nazr Mohammed is going to be a big part of the Piston’s rotation because A) Jason Maxiel is 6′7″ B) Amir Johnson is 6′9″ and about 225 C) Cheik Samb is not ready and finally D) Rasheed Wallace doesn’t want to play the 5 because of the banging/his age…
Now.. with that having all been said, i’m suddenly terrified of Nazr turning an ankle or something. WHich in turn means we NEED Webber.
Yeah I know, sickening to the stomach, but honestly true.
Joejoejoe: That may be reading into it too much.
Also, I’m not sure Shawn Marion isn’t just a shorter version of Andre Krilenko on any team but the Suns. There’s no doubt he has talent, but I don’t think he’s even a great second option. I’d love for the Matrix to prove me wrong, but I’m seeing a high energy defensive stopper who does most of his scoring on garbage plays and putbacks because at best the 3rd best defender is riding him. Sorta like a B version of Ron Artest. I think Phoenix knows they overpaid for that and so does most of the league, hence why he’s not moving…
Actually, joejoejoe might be on to something. Don’t the Wolves have to move KG this year? He’s definitely going to opt out after this season if he doesn’t get moved. I know McHale is really incompetent, but he can’t let KG walk away for nothing, can he? It might cost the Pistons Maxiell and McDyess along with some contracts (I’m looking at you, Nazr, Lindsey, and either Flip). A third team would have to get involved, but I think there’s enough inept GMs around the league that Joe D could swing something that would work. Isn’t it worth it to have Chauncey, Rip, Tay, Rasheed, and KG as the starting 5? Our rotation would definitely be short, but I’m pretty sure we could get KG tomorrow for a whole hell of a lot cheaper than he would’ve been a month ago. That starting 5 would at least get us to the finals. Wouldn’t it be delicious to watch KG and Sheed absolutely destroy the front line of Ben Wallace and PJ Brown (egads)?
Matt,
I overlooked the fouls for sure. I think you got the point of my post though which is given the opportunity to play considerable minutes, Nazr might not be all that bad. His numbers are right where (if not slightly better) than Webber’s numbers would be playing that much and he is much better on defense (I know, it ain’t sayin much) than Webber. You can’t run the offense through him like you can with Webber, but honestly, I wasn’t all that impressed with how the offense was run through Webber anyway.
Also, can we get some verification on Amir Johnson’s true height? He came into this league at 6′9″ and most if not all of the player info pages have him listed as such but I could have sworn there was talk of him having grown an inch or two since entering the league…which at the age of 20, is completely feasible.
Other Matt,
The problem with putting a guy like Garnett on our team through a trade is we would essentially be giving up young players (easily Maxiell, and my guess is they’d ask for Amir too) for the chance to win one championship.
After all, there is no guarantee that Garnett would choose to stay in Detroit after his last season and could Detroit afford Garnett after the end of the season anyway?
James,
Let me just clarify, I’m not saying we should go out get KG. I’m just saying the asking price for him has significantly dropped, and it’s dropped low enough to the point where I think you have to consider the Pistons players in the KG sweepstakes. I love Maxiell, and would hate to part with him, but I’m pretty sure I’d get over it if we won another title. After all, that is the point, isn’t it? I’d give up Maxiell and Amir if it meant winning another title. That might be an unpopular decision, but I’m sick of watching the postseason rooting for a team I feel like is capable of winning a title, but just chokes it away. Another championship would be so very satisfying at this point.
(Disclaimer: I’m not saying the Pistons should trade for KG. I’m not saying that we should give up Max and Amir if that’s what it’d take. I’m not even saying that we’d win the title if we got KG for Max and Amir. I’m just trying to come at this from an objective viewpoint and discuss any possible scenarios.)
And to answer the ‘can we afford KG for the following season’ question, no, I don’t think we can. And I think that’s what ultimately will sink any possible deal to Detroit. But that’s just my personal opinion.
Rasheed should put his whiny ass at Center with Nazr as a more than capable backup. To me, a front court of Rasheed, Dyess, Maxiell, Johnson and Nazr is pretty good.
No Webber please! Give Amir Johnson his minutes even if it means losing a few games.
Other Matt,
I apologize. I was being presumptous that your proposition was a clear indication of your support. I, more than anything, was just raising an issue with trading for Garnett rather than telling you you’re wrong.
I guess it would really come down to whether Joe D. thinks that the potential to win multiple titles with Maxiell and Amir is higher than the potential to win one title with KG on our squad.
“I’d give up Maxiell and Amir if it meant winning another title.” - So would at least 30 other GM’s in the league. I love what both of these guys represent for the Piston’s future but Maxie is 6′7″ and Amir has had a couple ham sandwiches on the team bus but not much else in terms of significant NBA mins. Anytime the opposing GM might get fired on the spot for accepting an offer, You gotta take it and that could seriously happen to McHale if he took that offer. Honestly I still think it’d cost more than that and that 2 draft picks and at least one first rounder would be involved. However yeah the asking price has to be way way way down.
One caveat though, much of the pressure to dump KG outright before the season started has evaporated from McHale with Garnett’s latest “It’s just buisness, I love the Wolves statement”. There is NO way his agent isn’t pulling his hair out right now, since the correct move would be to sit out training camp and refuse to play ANY games. It’s not like his trade value would be affected by NOT playing, but it most certainly would by blowing out his knee. If Garnett was “absolutely for sure definately” going to move, there’s no WAY he should report to camp for the Wolves…. which leads me to believe that he might not be moving after all. I mean it’d be completely UNHEARD of for a team to get that close to the wall on trading a star and have everyone back out happily in the end… but on paper that’s what everyone says is happening in Minny. At this point I’m pretty much flipping coins on “KG will be traded by Feb” and “KG will re-sign with the Wolves at midnight July whatever next year”.
If you read the mailbag or hoopshype, you definately saw John Hammond say Amir WAS 6′9″ when he was drafted, but checked in last Fall at 6′11″ with an additional 10lbs of muscle. He is still a little light…but so is Duncan/Sheed/Marion/Garnett/Gasol/etc…and what he lacks in bulk he makes up for with the fact he can just about change the light bulbs in the palace without a lift…FYI the same Hammond comment also said he looked bigger and they’d have to see where his height is NOW at training camp. Don’t be suprised if he cracks 7
James, I didn’t take your point to be argumentative. I’m actually kind of glad that you made me realize it seemed that I supported trading for KG at the expense of totally depleting our rotation, because I don’t. I think if we could get him for about 30 cents on the dollar, we’d have to go and do it. I’m not sure that’s the case right now, but it might be as the summer drags along and he’s still in Minnesota.
PistonsGirl, you’re absolutely right that it’d take more than Amir and Maxiell to get KG. There’d definitely have to be picks involved, and probably a thrid team to get the salaries to match. I think in terms of tangible assets (what we have today), the likely cost to us is Max and Amir or Dyess, or all 3. Or maybe the cost is Max and Rip, or some other package involving Rip (I hate to re-start the trade Rip discussion). And maybe that’ll make sense of Stuckey exceeds expectations. Hell, I don’t know. But I’d be shocked if KG is still in Minnesota at year’s end. There’s no chance he re-signs there next season. He’s 31, desparately wants a ring, and is closing in on 300,000 miles on the odometer. It’s now or never for him, and I think all involved parties know that. But if he doesn’t end up in LA, Phoenix, or Chicago, the next destination that makes even a little bit of sense is Detroit. That’s all I’m really pointing out here.
Matt, sure I don’t have a problem with that scenario… but then it makes ZERO sense for KG to report to camp, which is what he’s supposedly going to do. His agent should be telling him this every three seconds.
Let’s face it, KG is like the ARod of the NBA. He fills up a lot of stat cats, and he or his team is going to command a lot in return for him. The screwy thing about him also is that his salary has priced him out of any of the major contender’s reach without having to give up major pieces of the core to get him.
It’s a shame it’s like that, but he should’ve looked out for his best interest however many years ago when he signed his titanic contract with a team that had never been better than mediocre.
I’m not saying the guy doesn’t deserve $100+ million on a contract, or $20+ million a year… all I’m saying is, when you make an arrangement for $20+ million a year, in any sport, you better have a solid idea of where your team is going because not too many teams, in any sport, can afford to trade for you and your contract. I think both Kobe and Garnett basically hung themselves in bad situations by signing the contracts they signed. Believe me, they deserve it more than just about anyone…
I want KG’s hustle and heart on the team… but not at the expense of the youth and energy our “unproven” guys can bring off the bench. 1 title isn’t worth Maxiell and Johnson’s future. Look at the Yankees, Braves and 49ers… after all those years of mortgaging your future for immediate gains, they haven’t done anything more than make the playoffs in recent years. Sure, they may have won a title or 2, but is it really worth putting yourself or your team in a situation like the Knicks where you end up with a bunch of bad contracts that end up being dead weight on your luxury tax check? To me it’s not.
Just say no to Webber. Even if he wants to play for free, it’s not worth it. He’s a born loser. Some guys get incredibly unlucky and never win anything. Others just will never know how to win. He infects this team with a losing mentality. I was willing to give him a chance, but when he wilted in the playoffs, no more. Bring back Dale Davis before you bring back Webber.
Webber over Nazr anyday.
Mohammed and Webber would make a good tandem. Even with his fould rate, Mohammed is an above average center. He is more productive than he looks on the floor. TOs and fouls tend to me more glaring errors than, say, failing to box out or settling for a lousy turnaround jumper.
Webber shot 52% in the Cleveland series, and had 20 in game 5. That’s not fizzling out.
I like if C-Webb re-signs. I think the starting lineup should change like with Wallace starting at center with Mcdyess or Maxiell starting at PF with Webber coming in off the bench with Mcdyess/Max coming in at the PF. Really I do think that would work the best but I dont know if Webber would accept the position if not starting.
Welcome back C-Webb, as long as he is comfortable with getting 20 - 25 min a game, its great to have him back on board. Webb is still hungry for that “ship” which will help the Pistons attitdue for the journey next year. And with his ability to distribute the ball to cutters like Rip and Stuck, it will be a great contribution. AND with his limited athletic talent he will be a great teacher to Max and Amir on how to use the tricks of the trade rather than pure athleticism all the time. By the way, Nazr is garbage, Sheed will tell you so, as he was less enthused to play with a big body wit a lack of skill.
C is good for the playoffs and locker room with his vet presence.
If C Webb comes back the Pistons may regret it.
He had a lot of talent at one point but now his biggest attribute is a behind the back pass to the basket. He clearly can’t defend and his attitude is troubling. When the Pistons first got him all seemed right but as time wore on he really didn’t fit the offense. Him and Smooth had troubles communicating on the court and it made CB less agressive. Put JMax in his spot to start. Better energy all around.
Infuse the young talent and see what happens. CWebb is a pro’s pro but we don’t need that in Detroit. We need agressive play and the ability to defend. We need hunger and not this sense of stale entitlement which has kept the Pistons from going back to the Finals.
Let the new kids earn the $ and let CWebb play somewhere else.
Im all in favor for C-Web to come back…we had a real nice streak going when he first showed up into a Piston Uniform(probably one of the best track record we had ALL season). But im not in favor of having him playing big time minutes, i would much rather see more of the younger PFs get the majority of the PT (Maxiell and Johnson).
For the people that said they wanted to see Sheed at the 5 and Maxiell at the 4…that would be great but i think Sheed has stated he doesnt like playing the 5. But it would be nice if Mcdyess would step up for the startin job at either position but he doesnt want a starting job.
No C-Webb for 07-08.
No Sheed at the 5 - ever.
No wire hangers.
I think the Pistons need Webber back. They weren’t nearly as much of a contender last yr. w/o him. How can people say that a guy who puts up 11 & 7 in a half a game is garbage? Plus, Webber’s passing ability and the offensive power that the team would have w/ Webber on the floor alongside the other 4 starters and/or McDyess or Stuckey is invaluable. The opposing defense couldn’t double-team or turn their heads away for a second w/o getting burned. Yes, Webber does have his physical liabilities as well, obviously. I say you keep Nazr, too, b/c he’s the only other Center to play against the low-post bigs (E. Curry, Shaq, Yao, Oden, Gasol, D. Howard) if needed. Our other bigs are all PFs. It never hurts to have too many bigs (e.g., the 2004 championship squad). Also, what if there’s an injury to one of the bigs? I say there’s plenty of room on the roster to have Webber and McDyess each play 15-20 min/night, Rasheed 30 min, and still have Max and Amir get minutes. Part of what made Max so valuable last yr. was that he didn’t have to worry about expending energy or fouls. As far as not having a backup SF if Webber & Nazr are both on the roster, you can go with a 3-guard lineup w/ Hamilton or Afflalo at the 3 or have Amir play it on occasion. I think people are making too big a deal out of Detroit needing a backup for Prince. Assuming Flip Murray is gone, I hope the lineup next yr is:
Sheed
Prince
Webber
Rip
Billups
McDyess
Nazr
Max
Amir
Hunter
Stuckey
Afflalo
with the final 2 or 3 spots going to Dupree, Samb & Sammy M.
We’re fine…
- we don’t need a backup SF. Dupes will finally get his chance to play. And I’m sure Amir could easily play SF.
- Nazr can’t be moved therefore he’s a Piston next year (whether ya’ll like it or not).
- If Cwebb comes back, he’ll be on the bench.
- Stuckey is gonna be awesome!
- Affalo will learn under Lindsay and be our very own Bruce Bowen.
- Amir and Max is gonna scare the daylights out of anyone coming to play against us.
- Funny how everyone rips on Joe D. but they sure jump on the bandwagon once we start winning. FAKERS!
Go Deeeetroit!
good news for the cavs, the overrated webber returns
webber back? only for 20 mins per game and i agree you have to rest him before the playoffs (and maybe through a few playoff games). BUT i remember him from the days in sacramento. he didn’t get a long with peja at all. and that isn’t even the problem. he always shot his mouth over it and that ain’t cool from a team-mate and definately shows what kind of attitude he brings to the locker room.
Never understood why nazi got so little minutes but there must be something coach knows that we don’t. or not…
I’m really excited about Max coming into the rotation for more minutes to see if he can keep it up for 20+ mins a game.
Sheed’ll never do center for more than a few minutes. He’s good enough to do it but its the good you get with the bad of his attitude. he won’t do something he doesn’t want to.
Nazr will be traded for a veteran small forward to backup prince, and C-Webb will resign. No one treated the Pistons like contenders when Nazr was starting, and he didnt fill the expectations that we wanted. With Max Amir Mcdyess and Samb on the roster we no longer have room for him. I don’t hate Nazr and actually wouldnt mind having him play backup C, but the fact is we no longer have room for him.
Let C-Webb start but give him less minutes then last year.
WEBBER HAS ALWAYS BEEN A CHARISMATIC PLAYER AND A LIGHTENING ROD FOR CRITICISM. AS A YOUNGER PLAYER, WEBBER WAS NEVER KNOWN FOR HIS DEFENSIVE PROWESS AND NOW HIS LACK OF LATERAL MOBILITY IS PAINFULLY OBVIOUS. HOWEVER, I DON’T RECALL WEBBER BEING ON THE FLOOR WHEN LEBRON JAMES WENT TO THE BASKET UNCONTESTED NUMEROUS TIMES DURING THE CRITICAL GAME 5 OVERTIME LOSS TO CLEVELAND. THE TEAM DEFENSE WAS LOUSY. OVERALL, THE PISTONS SHOT THE BALL POORLY, AND BILLUPS, PRINCE AND WALLACE SLUMMPED NOTICEABLY. WEBBER STILL HAS EXCELLENT OFFENSIVE SKILLS THAT ARE A DEFINITE PLUS IF PROPERLY EXPLOITED. THIS IS SAUNDERS JOB (AND ALSO BILLUPS AS THE FLOOR LEADER). WEBBER PASSES THE BALL BETTER THAN MOST GUARDS, HAS WONDERFULL BALL FAKES AND CAN HIT A MEDIUM RANGE JUMP SHOT CONSISTANTLY. HE SHOULD BE USED PRIMARILY AS A HIGH POST CENTER NOT IN THE LOW POST AS WAS THE CASE THROUGHOUT MOST OF THE PLAYOFFS. FINALLY, I THINK WEBBER’S MOBILITY WOULD IMPROVE IF HE DROPPED SOME WEIGHT (EASIER ON THE KNEES AND ANKLES) AND HAD A FULL YEAR OF THERAPY WITH TRAINER ARNIE KANDER ( RE: A. MCDYESS’ PROGRESS). I STILL THINK HE IS THE BEST CENTER THE PISTONS HAVE, BUT AS JOE DUMARS HAS SAID, EACH PLAYER SHOULD EARN A STARTING POSITION.
i love the detroit pistons 4 lyfe all hataz of otha teams oo well because we comin back for our rings