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	<title>Comments on: Surprise! The Pistons sign Jarvis Hayes</title>
	<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/</link>
	<description>A Detroit Pistons blog</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 15:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2</generator>
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		<title>By: The Rumoured &#8220;Jarvis Hayes is No Longer a Piston&#8221; Post &#124; Detroit Bad Boys</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-141946</link>
		<dc:creator>The Rumoured &#8220;Jarvis Hayes is No Longer a Piston&#8221; Post &#124; Detroit Bad Boys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-141946</guid>
		<description>[...] one year in, it appears that Detroit&#8217;s Jarvis Hayes project has come to an end. Late Thursday evening, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] one year in, it appears that Detroit&#8217;s Jarvis Hayes project has come to an end. Late Thursday evening, [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: The free agent market gets smaller &#124; Detroit Bad Boys</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-141707</link>
		<dc:creator>The free agent market gets smaller &#124; Detroit Bad Boys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 05:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-141707</guid>
		<description>[...] anyone&#8217;s first, second or third option. That&#8217;s not always a bad thing &#8212; I was blindsided by Jarvis Hayes&#8217; arrival last summer, and even though Hayes was out of the rotation by the end of the year, I actually thought he [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] anyone&#8217;s first, second or third option. That&#8217;s not always a bad thing &#8212; I was blindsided by Jarvis Hayes&#8217; arrival last summer, and even though Hayes was out of the rotation by the end of the year, I actually thought he [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Dumars and Buford make the right moves - PistonsForum.com</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-73960</link>
		<dc:creator>Dumars and Buford make the right moves - PistonsForum.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-73960</guid>
		<description>[...] Then he drafted a ready-right-now Rodney Stuckey and a potentially useful Arron Afflalo, and signed a solid rotation player in Jarvis Hayes. Middle of last season, people'd say Detroit's window was closing. That 2010 roster [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Then he drafted a ready-right-now Rodney Stuckey and a potentially useful Arron Afflalo, and signed a solid rotation player in Jarvis Hayes. Middle of last season, people&#8217;d say Detroit&#8217;s window was closing. That 2010 roster [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: farlane</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72577</link>
		<dc:creator>farlane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72577</guid>
		<description>Where hopes take dream, there shall we find a worthy backup.

&lt;a href="http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/65x90/3713.jpg" rel="nofollow"&gt;Go bullethead, go&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where hopes take dream, there shall we find a worthy backup.</p>
<p><a href="http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/65x90/3713.jpg" rel="nofollow">Go bullethead, go</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jarvis Hayes meets the media at Detroit Bad Boys</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72397</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarvis Hayes meets the media at Detroit Bad Boys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:38:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72397</guid>
		<description>[...] the length and breadth of the comment thread in the previous post, I&#8217;m not too sure there&#8217;s anything that&#8217;s been unsaid about the Jarvis Hayes [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] the length and breadth of the comment thread in the previous post, I&#8217;m not too sure there&#8217;s anything that&#8217;s been unsaid about the Jarvis Hayes [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Paul M</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72387</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72387</guid>
		<description>Low turnovers are a plus, but that's partly because he didn't handle the ball much. Arenas, Butler, Jamison, and even Daniels did the heavy lifting for ball handling for the Wizards, so it'd be hard for a player like Hayes (who rarely had to handle the ball) to accumulate turnovers. 

His EFG% is okay but not killer. The NBA hotzones page shows that he's a putrid midrange shooter, and it indicates that having him chucking 3s is actually the better percentage shot. One of the criticisms levied against him is his poor ball handling, which is probably why he ends up taking so many long jumpers. I think the stat more indicative of his offensive prowess is his TS% (combines shooting percentages and free throws to form a measure of shooting percentage, basketballreference.com uses it), which has been way below league average his entire career, and it's mostly because he never gets to the line. 

More troublesome is his 82games position page, which has him yielding a 20.3 PER to opposing small forwards. I don't consider opponent PER a holy grail or anything, but that's awful for someone with a solid defensive rep (it basically means an average small forward has an All-Star night against him). joejoejoe also didn't mention how bad his plus minus was, -8.1 points, which is nearly enough to offset Arenas' +8.9. There are reasons for why his +/- wouldn't be great. He's replacing a much better player in Butler, for one. But still, he's playing against backups and losing that much ground, that's not a good sign.

Throwing away all the stats, I really hope Hayes succeeds here. He was a lottery pick and probably a deserving one, and his career has been fraught with injuries which have kept him from being consistent (Kander/Satan can help with that). Players who struggled in their first team have sometimes blossomed with a change of scenery (Boris Diaw, Drew Gooden, Tyson Chandler, Gerald Wallace), and I'm hoping something similar will happen here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Low turnovers are a plus, but that&#8217;s partly because he didn&#8217;t handle the ball much. Arenas, Butler, Jamison, and even Daniels did the heavy lifting for ball handling for the Wizards, so it&#8217;d be hard for a player like Hayes (who rarely had to handle the ball) to accumulate turnovers. </p>
<p>His EFG% is okay but not killer. The NBA hotzones page shows that he&#8217;s a putrid midrange shooter, and it indicates that having him chucking 3s is actually the better percentage shot. One of the criticisms levied against him is his poor ball handling, which is probably why he ends up taking so many long jumpers. I think the stat more indicative of his offensive prowess is his TS% (combines shooting percentages and free throws to form a measure of shooting percentage, basketballreference.com uses it), which has been way below league average his entire career, and it&#8217;s mostly because he never gets to the line. </p>
<p>More troublesome is his 82games position page, which has him yielding a 20.3 PER to opposing small forwards. I don&#8217;t consider opponent PER a holy grail or anything, but that&#8217;s awful for someone with a solid defensive rep (it basically means an average small forward has an All-Star night against him). joejoejoe also didn&#8217;t mention how bad his plus minus was, -8.1 points, which is nearly enough to offset Arenas&#8217; +8.9. There are reasons for why his +/- wouldn&#8217;t be great. He&#8217;s replacing a much better player in Butler, for one. But still, he&#8217;s playing against backups and losing that much ground, that&#8217;s not a good sign.</p>
<p>Throwing away all the stats, I really hope Hayes succeeds here. He was a lottery pick and probably a deserving one, and his career has been fraught with injuries which have kept him from being consistent (Kander/Satan can help with that). Players who struggled in their first team have sometimes blossomed with a change of scenery (Boris Diaw, Drew Gooden, Tyson Chandler, Gerald Wallace), and I&#8217;m hoping something similar will happen here.</p>
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		<title>By: Diablo</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72383</link>
		<dc:creator>Diablo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72383</guid>
		<description>fun and gun?

and defensive troubling..lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fun and gun?</p>
<p>and defensive troubling..lol</p>
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		<title>By: Boney</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72352</link>
		<dc:creator>Boney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72352</guid>
		<description>err... not Hayes...

swap Hayes and move Prince to the 4, and Max to the 5.

quick defenders, Prince and Max available alley oop slams...  I could see this lineup possibly working against PHX</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>err&#8230; not Hayes&#8230;</p>
<p>swap Hayes and move Prince to the 4, and Max to the 5.</p>
<p>quick defenders, Prince and Max available alley oop slams&#8230;  I could see this lineup possibly working against PHX</p>
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		<title>By: Boney</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72351</link>
		<dc:creator>Boney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72351</guid>
		<description>who couldn't see a "small" lineup of Billups, Stuckey, Afflalo, Hayes and Prince?

fun and gun?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>who couldn&#8217;t see a &#8220;small&#8221; lineup of Billups, Stuckey, Afflalo, Hayes and Prince?</p>
<p>fun and gun?</p>
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		<title>By: joejoejoe</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72346</link>
		<dc:creator>joejoejoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72346</guid>
		<description>I'm looking deeper at Jarvis Hayes stats (regular + 82games.com) and here are a few things I see...

Positives -
Excellent effective FG%
Low turnovers

Negatives -
Wizards were worse defensively and offensively with Hayes on the court

Now maybe the Wizards were worse because A) Hayes was replacing Caron Butler who was an inside player and B) His outside game duplicates Arenas. I think Tayshaun's role in the Detroit offense fits Hayes better than Caron Butler's role in the Wizards offense. I don't think Hayes is going to be a change of pace type reserve, he'll be more of a continuity reserve. I think if Hayes looks around the league he can see examples in Raja Bell and Bruce Bowen to follow that would allow him to play and play well for another decade in the league if he stays healthy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m looking deeper at Jarvis Hayes stats (regular + 82games.com) and here are a few things I see&#8230;</p>
<p>Positives -<br />
Excellent effective FG%<br />
Low turnovers</p>
<p>Negatives -<br />
Wizards were worse defensively and offensively with Hayes on the court</p>
<p>Now maybe the Wizards were worse because A) Hayes was replacing Caron Butler who was an inside player and B) His outside game duplicates Arenas. I think Tayshaun&#8217;s role in the Detroit offense fits Hayes better than Caron Butler&#8217;s role in the Wizards offense. I don&#8217;t think Hayes is going to be a change of pace type reserve, he&#8217;ll be more of a continuity reserve. I think if Hayes looks around the league he can see examples in Raja Bell and Bruce Bowen to follow that would allow him to play and play well for another decade in the league if he stays healthy.</p>
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		<title>By: Sauce1977</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72308</link>
		<dc:creator>Sauce1977</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 02:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72308</guid>
		<description>Watching Flip fail at adjustments and sideline direction is pretty horrible.  To be fair, we don't have a horrible coach, but for a team that has enough to go the whole way and come out on top, we really don't have a brilliant coach to match.

He's got all those plays, but he doesn't know how or when to use them.  He's like Rain Man or something.  I'd like Flip as an assistant.  I dislike him as a head coach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Watching Flip fail at adjustments and sideline direction is pretty horrible.  To be fair, we don&#8217;t have a horrible coach, but for a team that has enough to go the whole way and come out on top, we really don&#8217;t have a brilliant coach to match.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s got all those plays, but he doesn&#8217;t know how or when to use them.  He&#8217;s like Rain Man or something.  I&#8217;d like Flip as an assistant.  I dislike him as a head coach.</p>
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		<title>By: PistonsGirl4Life</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72284</link>
		<dc:creator>PistonsGirl4Life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72284</guid>
		<description>Kevin, I just don't think you're being fair.  Jarvis Hayes is a credible NBA player.  Affalo is a SG trying to become a part time SF in the NBA for the first time.  The move is obviously about insuring there's enough depth if any one option doesn't work out.  There is no way you can tell me that you're sure Affalo is ready to play right now, whereas I can prove to you that Jarvis Hayes plays NBA games.

Your ichor makes very little sense in relation to how minor this move is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, I just don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re being fair.  Jarvis Hayes is a credible NBA player.  Affalo is a SG trying to become a part time SF in the NBA for the first time.  The move is obviously about insuring there&#8217;s enough depth if any one option doesn&#8217;t work out.  There is no way you can tell me that you&#8217;re sure Affalo is ready to play right now, whereas I can prove to you that Jarvis Hayes plays NBA games.</p>
<p>Your ichor makes very little sense in relation to how minor this move is.</p>
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		<title>By: Keegan</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72276</link>
		<dc:creator>Keegan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72276</guid>
		<description>The San Antonio Spurs are a pretty good excuse for not having 2-4 rings since '03.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The San Antonio Spurs are a pretty good excuse for not having 2-4 rings since &#8216;03.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin s.</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72267</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin s.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72267</guid>
		<description>"A) he’s 6′5″ and has never played a game under NBA rules in his life…what if he sucks?"

Good point.  Let's play someone who has proven that he sucks.  Eliminate the doubt factor.  We certainly needed a backup SF.  But backup-caliber wings are a dime a dozen, so much though that we have let two of them go in the past two years at the behest of Carlos Delfino.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A) he’s 6′5″ and has never played a game under NBA rules in his life…what if he sucks?&#8221;</p>
<p>Good point.  Let&#8217;s play someone who has proven that he sucks.  Eliminate the doubt factor.  We certainly needed a backup SF.  But backup-caliber wings are a dime a dozen, so much though that we have let two of them go in the past two years at the behest of Carlos Delfino.</p>
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		<title>By: "ME"</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72234</link>
		<dc:creator>"ME"</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-08-16/surprise-the-pistons-sign-jarvis-hayes/#comment-72234</guid>
		<description>The Lambs/Sheed mix might work well.  I seem to recall Lambs (in his day) shooting a lot of perimeter jumpers as well (they weren't 3's then)  Buddha/Dantley/Aguirre did most of the inside work.

I think that there is a mutual respect factor that would go a long way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Lambs/Sheed mix might work well.  I seem to recall Lambs (in his day) shooting a lot of perimeter jumpers as well (they weren&#8217;t 3&#8217;s then)  Buddha/Dantley/Aguirre did most of the inside work.</p>
<p>I think that there is a mutual respect factor that would go a long way.</p>
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