I’m not ordinarily a huge fan of watching women’s basketball, but I’m happy that it exists. After all, I spent most of my childhood convinced that someday I was going to play in the NBA (despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary) — if little girls want to have the same delusions dream about the WNBA, more power to them.
Last night while flipping through the channels, I happened to stumble across Game 3 of the WNBA Finals between the Detroit Shock and Phoenix Mercury. It was early in the first quarter … and I ended up watching the rest of the game (the Shock won, and now lead the best of five series 2-1). I didn’t plan on it, it just sort of happened.
Maybe I did it because it’s September and there’s no NBA action in sight, or maybe it was because Bill Laimbeer is miked up on the sidelines and I felt nostalgic listening to him ream out the referees. Or, maybe despite my best efforts to remain cynical, it was a close game and the play on the court was quite entertaining.
I’m not sure I’ll ever change my schedule to catch a regular season game, but there’s something oddly compelling about championship-level basketball. They’re playing hard basketball out there, diving after loose balls, throwing elbows in the paint and basically showing the same level of intensity you’d expect from any professional athlete. I know that probably sounds condescending — what else should I have expected? — but it’s an honest observation. And it’s enough that I’ll probably be tuning in on Thursday at 8:30 to see if the Shock can close it out.
Commence making fun of me in the comments starting … now.
I had the same exact ideas regarding women’s basketball, but ever since they’ve been in the playoffs I’ve found myself flipping from Tiger games to Shock games with overwhelming excitement because of the competition.
You ain’t alone. The Shock play more like the old Pistons than the new Pistons do. Too much of the WNBA is populated with tippy-toe push-shot artists camped behind the arc, but our girls pound it down low and take no prisoners. Popcorn at my place Thursday.
Ditto that. I called my brother last night to confess my sins about watching and he had it on too. They do play like the badboys of old. You can hear it in the way the announcers seem to hate the Shock and are rooting openly for the Mercury. It does feel weird to cheer for the seed of Karl Malone, but she reminds me a little of Ben Wallace crossed with Shaq. A reboudning machine.
Matt,
I am right there with you dude. I had no intention of watching that game but it was too entertaining to put away. Did you see how Deanna Nolan and Katie Smith were so clutch? They were amazing. And Lambier had a great game plan pounding it inside while katie and deanna lit it up from behind the arc.
The game was close and had great drama throughout the whole affair. If I had one complaint it would be the officsiating. Phoenix went to the line more than twice as much as Detroit according to the announcers. That part just didn’t seem right. Makes you wonder if there is a Tim Donaghy in the WNBA too.
I haven’t really watched, but I did a little fist-pump when I saw the final score this morning. I’m slightly worried at myself for doing that. I’m justifying it by saying that I was Laimbeer as the Pistons next coach, and if he wins another title, that stands to increase the chances. It’s beyond impressive what he’s managed to do with that team.
At some point he’s gotta be given the chance to coach men right?
People always talk about what Bill has done with “that team.” My question though is (and not one that I could answer myself), are the Detroit Shock considered a talent filled team or a team filled with solid all-star cusp players playing great as a team?
I don’t really know the talent pool of the WNBA at all. I only ask because it would be much more impressive for him to win all these championships with players who were not expected to win.
Still haven’t caught a game and it’s hard to do on the west coast. I don’t think I’ll ever bring myself to DVR a WNBA game and watch it on delay…
Hey Matt, don’t sweat it dude. I’ve been watching the Shock’s playing since the very first conference match and I’m a guy. It was painfull to watch the Shock loses like they did in game two but game three made it all up and so order was restored in the universe. I can’t believe that this year it would be the girls that would be bringing home the trophy instead of the boys. Joe D should have hired Bill Laimbeer as head coach of the Piston when Brown left but then again where would the Shock be without him.
I’ll be there glued to my tv set on Thursday to see the Shock winning it.
Matt, I’m very happy I can come out of the closet and admit the same. I’ve tried to watch women’s basketball, even NCAAW Championship games and I just can’t do it. But the Lady Pistons (I mean Shock)have caught my attention. My experience was identical to yours. I flicked across it a few days ago, couldn’t turn away and then found myself looking for it when I got home from work last night. Deanna Nolan is no joke. No shot-put here. Sista’s form would make Reggie Miller proud man. I can’t understand why Lambs can’t get a wiff of the NBA. It seems that since the ladies game lacks the athleticism, and sometimes maybe skill, of the men’s game that it takes more Coaching ability to succeed there. Why doesn’t the league get that. Micheal Cooper has had success with the Lady Lakers and can’t get to the NBA either. Maybe its just me. Give the brothers an assistant job or something. Just crack the door for them and I’m sure they’ll kick it in. Go Lady Pistons!!!
Nadema, I have to rub the Rosery beeds whenever I cheer for “the seed of Karl Malone” as well. She looks just like him. Please forgive me Isiah. Don’t take my “I Worship Zeke” membership club card.
It doesn’t make sense right now for Bill Davidson to take a tested, incredibly successful WNBA coach like Laimbeer, and offer him a job on the bench of the Pistons as an untested NBA assistant coach.
With Laimbeer heading the Shock, the ticket sales are probably as close to maxed out as you can get in the WNBA. You take your WNBA hall of fame coach away and all of a sudden your team isn’t as great and people don’t come to the games as much.
I realize that the profit (if any) is minimal in the WNBA compared to the NBA, but if it is minimal now, it would be non-existent without Laimbeer.
One question: Is there a WNBA Hall of Fame? If so, is it just a combined WNBA/NBA hall of fame or is it completely separate? I only ask because if Lamb keeps winning these championships, and they are separate, then could he be the first and only person to be inducted into both the NBA Basketball Hall of Fame AND the WNBA Basketball Hall of Fame?
Ummm… I’m seriously moved.
Honestly I’ve been watching the Shock for several years now and I’ve always been under the impression the entire male population felt the same way everyone who ever posts a comment on ESPN did:
“It’s not basketball. Nobody dunks. Women’s sports are boring/pointless/stupid/funny/laughable. Why bother writing about sports nobody cares about? Blah blah blah something about bare feet and kitchen”.
Honestly it’s just nice to share with people who love sport because it’s sport and because GOOD THINGS ARE HAPPENING on those courts. It’s not just an equal rights thing, Swin Cash would destroy anyone on this board in pickup. Cheryl Ford would kick your a$$ off the glass. It’s just the damn truth… hell I think Cappie Pointdexter could take most NBA fans in a fight.
Thanks, seriously and 4reals because I was starting to wonder if I was all alone out there. I guess the people making those comments on ESPN are the same guys who yell “KOBE KOBE KOBE KOBE!!!!!!1111″ to everything as if that’s actually a discussion point.
As for the Shock specifically, they’re the absolute class of the WNBA when it comes to entertainment value. They’re mean, tough and talented but lack that boring Spurs type mentality that often locks onto good teams. They blow up, they implode, they find ways to let teams back into the game and then…. doom, strangle the life out of their opponents at the last second.
Whoever said the Shock are more “Bad Boy” than the Pistons are now had it absolutely right….Cheryl said it best after beating Indiana “Ain’t nothing sweet right here”…. and DAMN is she right.
Also, the WNBA has it’s own hall and women’s basketball in general has it’s own section in the Basketball Hall of Fame. The NBA however does not have a hall of fame of it’s own. (No really, and Stern JUST said they won’t be getting one either like 2 days ago).
I’m been watching it too and been finding it entertaining. And from the other comments it looks like we’re not alone. Its great competition and every time Bill calls a timeout and switches strategies I wish he was on our bench.
Also if history teaches us anything, Thursday’s game should be a 20+ point loss. The Shock are alot like the old AFL Raiders.. when they lose they lose really really ugly. That’s not to say I don’t think the girls are winning this WNBA title, I’m almost 100% sure they are… it’s just the Detroit Shock don’t do ANYTHING easy… ever… time and time again they’ve been WAY better facing elimination than a close out game… sounds familiar huh?
*PistonsGirl grins*
Hey. I have no problem admitting that I love watching the WNBA. I was there at the Joe when the Shock won the title last year, and the place was packed, the crowd was awesome and it was a great and emotional game.
Sadly as soon as we left the arena, it was as if nothing had happened. Nothing on the sports radio, nothing on TV, nothing on local news about this great, hard fought world championship that had taken place. It really showed how far we have yet to go to appreciate the female athlete in America.
Like most of you who commented, I will be watching Thursday, and I say that we should have an official DBB Game 4 Blog for the Shock. Whaddya say guys?
PG4L, color me the jerk of the group, but Swin Cash wouldn’t just destroy everyone on this board in pickup unless everyone on this board is under 6′ and can’t even ball in the least. Nothing against the ladies, as I have from time to time caught a WNBA Finals game in past Shock runs and they’ve impressed me with their play, but I’m going to claim from a pure genetics standpoint, men seem to have an inherent advantage.
I have a good friend and she’s on schloarship at Oberlin in Ohio (not a glorious school, I know) and whenever we play, I beat her with ease. I wouldn’t have even made my HS team back in the day if I had tried out, and I’m only about two inches taller than her at most, but all other things level, she can’t hang with me down low, so she loses. I’m not trying to say that ladies (especially the Shock) can’t ball or whatnot, but probably any male who played at the 1, 2, or 3 spot in at least HS would handle Swin. Yahoo’s got her at 6′1″, 165 and she’s a pro athlete … Me thinks advantage goes to any male who wears a jeans size 32 or larger. I don’t want to be told Cheryl Ford could kick a 6′3″ 215 lb. (way larger than me, just an example) guy’s ass on the glass (as long as he knows how to box out), but in any event I know they’re gamers so I still want to see the Shock win.
Dude, everyone is welcome to their opinion but….
Your friend isn’t one of the best forwards in the WNBA… you will note I said she’d destroy you in pick up, not that she was stronger than you. I did say Ford would destroy you on the glass and I still firmly believe that because she’s an astounding rebounder not just a bull with breasts.
Also presumably you didn’t argue the Cappie Poindexter part because she’s buck nasty… I understand, she really is. I hope the Shock aquire her at some point, she plays like we do.
Also fwiw I play pickup basketball in a men’s league at the Y and rarely find “pure genetics” prevents me from making clean passes, draining jumpers, being in the right position or refusing to quit on defence. Sometimes I find it lets guys bowl me over on the way to the hoop but ya know what? I set my feet and take the charge. Maybe you should teach your basketball playing girl-friend there about that… or perhaps you just play one on one like most male pickup players… as if there are no fouls? Pure strength can NOT beat a set defender if anyone is there to call a charge. That’s basketball.
Seriously no offence but I’m pretty sure Swin would beat you handily anyplace outside of your back yard.
I otoh would probably get killed in a 1 on 1 game with most men for what it’s worth. I play the game “right” but I’m not exactly breaking ankles and making my own shots so unless you’re under 6 foot, I’d expect alot of balls coming back my way after you reject a contested jumper…. just so we clear that I’m not saying most NORMAL women are capable of competing with men on par… just some of the WNBA’s better players who I’ve seen in action several times.
Also, don’t make me pull out quotes of Michael Jordan saying Holdsclaw could play in the NBA…
LawyerBoy - what color is a jerk? I’m going to pretend that your comments were made in jest, because your “insights” about the level of skills of female athletes comes across as a complete joke. These are not women that went to an almost unknown school in Ohio. These are professional athletes that have proven themselves at each level of competition. If you think that defense is all about size you should check out a guy named Lindsey Hunter, I heard they think he’s a good defender. I know that Swin or pretty much any of these ladies would make anyone of “the boys” reading right now look foolish. Conditioning, shooting, dribbling, rebounding, they know what they’re doing. Maybe I should introduce you to Billie Jean King…. have you heard of her?
There’s a Women’s Basketball Hall of Fame in Knoxville, Tennessee. Like the Naismith HOF, it recognizes achievement at the college, high school, and international level as well as the WNBA. Actually, the WNBA hasn’t been around long enough to have any players enshrined primarily for their careers their. I’d expect that to change soon, as Cynthia Cooper will be eligible next year.
As far as talent goes, the Shock have two legitimate All Stars (Ford & Nolan), one borderline All Star (Cash), and one all time great who’s on the downside of her career but still dangerous (Smith). Add in a couple of bigs (Braxton & Feenstra), a wily veteran PG on the bench (Johnson), and the 6th woman of the year (Pierson), and nobody should be surprised that they’re title contenders.
Evil Bill wouldn’t work as an NBA coach.
Dude, I’d get killed by any of those girls in 1-on-1. Not only that, I’d be embarrassed to wear a tank top around them — have you seen their guns? It’s a long way from NCAA Division III to the WNBA.
I am a diehard NBA fan and have been for close to 30 years. About five years ago I decided to check out a live WNBA game and now I am a season ticket holder. I have season tickets to year round basketball here in Seattle with the Sonics and the Storm.
Not all WNBA games are as good as this series between Detroit and Phoenix, but many are close. To answer a question asked in an earlier comment, Detroit is a collection of great players winning because they work as a team. Like the Pistons, they have one of the best starting five in the league and the 6th (wo)man of the year. I can’t stand them, anymore than I can stand the Pistons. If I was in Detroit, though, I’d be at every game.
So will you guys or gals give the WNBA a chance? Now I’m NOT saying that you would become instance fans overnight but, just think about checking them out more often
I wanted to let you know, I don’t normally watch the WNBA either, but last night, I couldn’t turn away from the game, just like you.
Swin would beat my ass undoubtedly. She’s 6′3″ and I’m 5′8, but PG4L you might’ve missed the part where I said would’ve gotten laughed out of the gym in HS ball tryouts and I could beat a college women’s basketball player handily in one on one multiple times. I’m not near the player she is, but that’s irrelevant. I said that a guy who could play HS ball could go with the WNBA ladies and I believe that. One on one, team game, if you’re bigger, it’s a lot easier to establish positioning. If you’re quicker, you’re gonna get to the hole on offense and be able to stay between your opponent and the basket on defense if you know how to ball on some level. I’m not trying to be dissing the ladies of the Shock and their skills, but until you can disprove that the best male sprinters consistently clock more than a full second faster than their female counterparts in the 100 meter, I’m not gonna buy all these ladies are just as impressive assertions, cuz it just sounds to me like sour grapes. Men in general are taller/bigger than women. Don’t try and tell me that’s not true. So trying to tell me that other physical advantages don’t go along with that, like ability to get in position for rebounds, plain silly.
Julie, save your Billie Jean King argument for someone who’s moved by emotional appeals and doesn’t care about facts. Riggs was 55 while BJK was 29 for that match. Clearly I’ve heard more about BJK than you have, because she didn’t play a young, conditioned athlete that you credit the Shock for being.
If there’s no one on this board who’s a twentysomething dude over 6′ and in good physical shape, then no one on the board stands a chance, but I could pull a few of my athletic friends together, and I don’t think Swin Cash is going to be balling all over them or Cheryl Ford “kicking their ass” on the boards, even if they’re pro athletes. Maybe all of DBB is athletically challenged like me. That’s certainly possible. It’s nothing against women athletes or the enjoyability of their games, as I believe that awesome competition on most levels is generally compelling stuff, but a big part of what makes competition fun to watch is determined by how closely matched you are by who you’re playing against.
I didn’t want a huge thing to come out of this, I’m just very bothered by statements that I view as hyperbole, as in how I viewed some of the original statements from PG4L. Swin and Cheryl are awesome, I’m not trying to take anything away from them despite what it may seem. I’m just trying to establish perspective.
I’m now officially boggled as to what that perspective is…
I said that Swin could beat anyone on this board in pickup (which last I checked is a team game) and that Ford would destroy you on the glass. I also said it after listing the types of comments I FREQUENTLY read on ESPN… this was a way of saying “most of these girls get dissed for not playing a *real* sport but would destroy the average internet poster who says these things because they are world class athletes”…The obvious connection in my post is “what right do a bunch of guys who watch basketball but couldn’t go 10 mins with any of these girls have to say that this game is somehow not worthy?”
So are you or are you not trying to say that you could beat Swin Cash in a game of basketball because you A) have nads and B) beat some poor girl you know in one on one regularly who may or may not atttend a univeristy that might have a girls team; who knows, they’re Div III? Or rather some hypothetical kid who actually MADE his HS team could?
Cause dude I just re-read your first post about 7 times and it quite clearly seems thats what you are saying and frankly if it is you’re full of shit.
I too have no desire to get into a big fight about a hypothetical game that isn’t going to be played but if your point was “The highest level of women players aren’t as good as the highest level of men’s players”… you should say that… rather than saying that Swin Cash is 165 lbs and you beat some chick you know at basketball all the time… thus CLEARLY imply you’re saying you could beat Swin Cash at basketball or at least think you can.
Just because you say it in 3 nicely spaces paragraphs doesn’t make the viewpoint any less ignorant. As for the whole competant 6′ male HS player line… You are as I stated earlier welcome to your opinion…also welcome to being wrong. I mean even the guy on basketbawful gives “The girl” more respect than automatically assuming she’s worse than a HS kid and he’s talking about a random pickup player with breasts, not the best female basektball players in the world… You’re crackers, period.
BTW before this continues into a really stupid battle of the genders please understand that I’m NOT implying women are the physical equals of men (God gave us everything else better, you can have this ONE little thing)…. the fact is when I play vs other women; I’m Dwayne Wade… I drive inside, I bang, I don’t shy away from contact because I’m not at a disadvantage. While at the Y however I play more of a fundamental catch and shoot type game, I try not to do too much and HELL no I’m not crazy enough to go inside when even the worst player on their team is way stronger than me and has 25 lbs… that doesn’t mean I’m not effective and LB it does not, by ANY STRETCH of the imagination mean I’m the worst player on the court… some days, I’m one of the best, I just don’t try to do things vs the boys that my body will not allow me to do.
That having been said I’m NOT a freaking multi time WNBA All-Star.. the girls cited in my example are so I can only assume that in ADDITION to being stronger and faster than I am, they probably are smarter too and suprising PLAY BASKETBALL BETTER BECAUSE THEY ARE PROS… is this really that hard to understand?
LawyerBoy- thanks again for your advice, however my point had nothing to do with emotion, and everything to do with the notion that “men can easily beat women, no matter what the conditioning or skill level women achieve.” BJK was an example. Riggs was in fact making a living playing “Challenge Matches,” and while he may not have been quite as spry as his Wimbledon-winning days (not exact;y some former high school starter) I’m guessing he still had a lot of skills. But I guess you thought that whole part about him being a former world-class athlete wasn’t a factor in this match (which was, by the way, played as best of 5 rather than the usual best of three, and she beat him in straight sets). Actually, maybe it would help your argument to know that Riggs had previously beaten a different highly ranked female tennis player. Does this mean that womean just aren’t all that good, or that maybe he had some game? Either way I guess I should read up on it more…
LawyerBoy said, “I’m not trying to be dissing the ladies of the Shock and their skills, but until you can disprove that the best male sprinters consistently clock more than a full second faster than their female counterparts in the 100 meter, I’m not gonna buy all these ladies are just as impressive assertions, cuz it just sounds to me like sour grapes.”
No one is debating track speeds between top level women and top level men track athletes. You said an average male who can ball is better than a top level woman basketball player. The correct comparison would be between the average male high school track athlete and the fastest women in the world. Your average male track runner will get smoked in the 100 meter.
You said you weren’t good enough to play on your HS team, but your only comparison is against someone who isn’t a world class athlete. (Furthermore DIV3 schools aren’t allowed to offer athletic scholarships.)
You have yet to provide any evidence to back up your assertions and the only arguments you’ve provided to prove your point are fallacious.
I’ve been watching the Shock for the last three years and they play hard, intense team basketball. I find myself wishing the Pistons would do that again sometime in the post-season. Anyway, of course men and women have physical differences, but I don’t think it’s fair to just dismiss the WNBA because they aren’t as physically big as the men. I approached it skeptically at first, to be honest, but those women play real basketball. Go Shock.
Real simple. If the rest of the league hates them, they’re our kind of team. All you need to know.
BJK (at 29) beat a dude who was 55. If you watched Agassi in the U.S. Open last year, you know what age can do to skills. At this point I’m just going to defer to LanierFan who hits on the right point without all the hyperbole.
Lawyer Boy
#1 Oberlin is a D3 school — a really bad one athletically, and D3 schools do not give out athletic scholarships. So your friend sucks without athletic scholarship money.
#2 Shock are the better team, though sometimes I wish Bill weren’t miked up. If Ricky was miked up we’d get some good laughs.
#3 Taurasi is absolutely electric. Everytime she touches the ball there is a chance that something spectacular could happen. It is a little like Barry Sanders (who wants to get into a discussion if Barry or Emmitt is better.) When Barry touched the ball there was a chance for the incredible: Like Gale Sayers, Michael Jordan and yes, even Kobe Bryant. Doesn’t mean the Sun will win, but God is she great to watch…
frakking Mercury survived the onslaught for a game 5. They won by one point and their court celebrated like the second coming or something. They got way too many calls that aren’t in the Shock’s favor.
I think it is time for Bill Laimbeer to stop dicking around and get down to business by annihilating the opponents till sunset.