When Kevin Sawyer isn’t playing amateur dentist for his Canadian friends, he occasionally writes about the NBA for DBB. Here’s his second guest post …
by Kevin Sawyer
There’s nothing I like more than bursting bubbles, so in advance of the new season, I thought I’d lay out my all-overrated team for this year. You all can make fun of me when these guys all coincidentally have career seasons. Without any further adieu…
- First Team
SF – Richard Jefferson
This supposedly underrated star got outplayed by Bostjan Nachbar last season. At the ripe old age of 27, Jefferson is showing signs of age, partly due to the injuries that have caused him to miss 80 games over the last three seasons. But even when he is healthy, he is a pretty strong shooter and an able defender, and that’s it. For this he has been festooned with All-Star honors, Olympic team roster placements, and the general perception that he is the most underrated player in the league.
PF – Jermaine O’Neal
Quick, whose player efficiency rating ranked 16th among power forwards? No, not David West (who was 15th). Shockingly, it was O’Neal, whose abilities have been overestimated by approximately the same margin throughout his career. A few years ago, when he was a solid 20-10 guy, he was a part of MVP discussions. Now that his production has declined a bit, he is still considered an all-star starter. The problem is that he shoots about 45% from the field. He is an outstanding defender, of course, but has never lived up to his superstar reputation.
C – Ben Wallace
Cost per rebound in 2005-06 - $8,125
Cost per rebound in 2006-07 - $19,488
Cost per playoff win in 2005-06 - $750,000
Cost per playoff win in 2006-07 - $2,666,667
Having your division rival solve a potentially sticky financial problem for you? Priceless.
PG – Jason Kidd
When he’s not smacking, groping or otherwise generally having his way with women, Kidd is also a horrendous shooter who plays for a professional basketball association. What really elevates his game is his rebounding, without which he would not be enough of a threat to log stellar assist totals, or even stay in the NBA. Triple-doubles are great, but there is a reason why a Nets team anchored by this trio of alleged stars only wins about 45 games per year. Kidd is fine, but he is only a top-tier PG in fantasy.
SG – Daniel Gibson
The weird thing about Gibson’s conference finals explosion is that his nickname has thus far summarized his overall game. As many Pistons fans already know, Gibson shot more free throws in that series than he did the remainder of the season. His outburst, combined with the Cavs’ complete and utter lack of perspective (see: Hughes, Larry) should guarantee him plenty of time to be utterly mediocre this season. We’ll see if he can pull 31 points out of his ass again.
- Second Team
SF – Michael Redd
Michael Redd is a solid shooter. Thanks to his popularity amongst a couple of influential columnists, Redd is somehow elevated to the status of unheralded superstar. He’s good, but I would expect a superstar to lead a solid supporting cast to 40-42 wins in the Eastern Conference at minimum. He’ll put the ball in the basket all day and all night, but lacks the multi-faceted game to be a real star.
PF – Lamar Odom
His 15-10 numbers are somewhat over-inflated by the fact that he plays 40 minutes per game, and he’s actually a pretty average starter. Side note: Odom is the quintessential example of the 75 cents-on-the-dollar guy. He’s the guy that can headline a trade for a major star, saving face for a team forced to acquiesce to a superstar’s trade demand. Expect him to be traded at least twice more for precisely this reason.
C – Marcus Camby
Defensive player of the year? Camby is a good rebounder and shot-blocker, but Denver allowed 104 ppg last season, and Camby’s defensive numbers don’t rate that well. Camby is a very solid player, and will probably deliver double digit rebounds in perpetuity, but one gets the impression that sportswriters are still anticipating a breakout year from the 33 year old.
PG – Deron Williams
Deron is a top-10 point guard, but the assumption seems to be that he will emerge as a superstar this year. At 23, there is room for modest improvement, but he is no sure thing for stardom, and I would take Chris Paul in a heartbeat. I defy you to explain how his career trajectory is substantially different from, say, Andre Miller.
SG – Monta Ellis
Is it a bad sign when the potential future of your franchise can’t shoot all that well? If Golden State is smart, they’ll sell high on Ellis, who many project to be a star. I think the playoffs exposed him a bit, and even with modest improvement, he won’t live up to his reputation as a future-star in this league.
I agree with everything but marcus camby. I think there are much more overrated centers in the league today. (1st overall pick andrew bogut, or ilgauskas who is a good offensive rebounder but definately not all that good)
If camby hadn’t been injured so much he could have been even better than 12rpg 3bpg and 11ppg. plus getting 11ppg in a team with such great offensive guards is pretty hard
Umm…. I agree with most of it, but Jason Kidd? Are you kidding me? Did you ever see him play?
I think everyone acknowledges that Ben Wallace is overpaid. So he’s therefore correctly ‘rated’.
I do like most of your choices but really now….Jason Kidd is overrated? That’s ridiculous. Because of him, players that play with him get a huge payday….Kenyon Martin anyone? He’s a top 3 pg in the league still, maybe only behind Steve Nash. And now let me remind you that he is a POINT GUARD!!!!!!!! You shouldn’t need him to score 20 a night. He gets his teammates involved, and not to mention his rebounding is better than some centers we have in the league. He is also an underrated defender at his position. So if you don’t like players that can’t shoot well….why not put Andre Miller here?????
There was no way I was writing this without including Wallace. His reputation took a bit of a hit this year, but I think he has become a very average player very quickly.
Camby is an overrated defensive player. His offensive production is fine.
Yes, I have seen Kidd play. He’s good. He’s just not as good as Steve Nash, Chauncey, Chris Paul, Gilbert Arenas, Tony Parker or a healthy Baron Davis. Why? Because he can’t shoot.
Ben Wallace is overrated in the fact that he has gotten “superstar” money for being a bit player in the grand Detroit scheme. He is not a savior, and made no significant impact in the playoffs last year for the team that probably paid him because of his experience in the playoffs for Detroit. It is quite obvious that signing him was some kind of a ploy to try and break up the roster when actually, a thank you card should be sent to Paxson for spending the money that Davidson didn’t even have to offer.
He is correctly “rated” like Matt said, he is however, not as valuable as his contract suggests no matter how the money is split up over the next 4 years. He is an $8m max per year player that capitalized off the success of the “going to work” Pistons, when really the Pistons didn’t suffer that greatly without him, not as much as he suffered.
My point was that this was an ‘overrated’ list, not an ‘overpaid’ list. And you have to overpay free agents to get them to switch teams.
Also, he did have an impact in the Miami series, just not against Detroit. He has his magical headband back though, so watch out!
kidd is overrated????? he took a lottery team into the playoffs!!! he’s definitely one of the all time greats! you’re crazy!!!
Kidd overrated? I think he was overrated earlier in his career. But general opinion of him now is that he is perhaps the second to fourth best point guard in the league depending upon what your needs are.
Your response back about Steve Nash, Chauncey, Chris Paul, Gilbert Arenas, Tony Parker or a healthy Baron Davis leaves me to laughter. Nash is a given. He is #1. Tony Parker is debateable as the #2 with Kidd. Chris Paul hasn’t been in the league or done enough to warrant too much praise. However, Billups, Arenas and Davis are laughable. First, Arenas is nowhere near a point guard - so he is out. And if you are talking overrated, then Billups and Davis should be on the first team. Baron has accomplished nothing in his career except being a malcontent shoot-first guard who shows flashes of talent but never lives up to it. And one playoff series shouldn’t now crown him king. He will go right back to being the old Baron we all know and hate. And while chauncy has accomplished much [rings], it was obvious watching him and Kidd on team USA. Kidd made that team unstoppable. Billups slowed the pace down so much that I am now in retirement. He was awful.
Quick, how many games did Michael Redd play last season?
Expecting a player to lead his injury decimated team to 42 wins when he only played 53 games that season is asking a lot.
I understand that any list of overrated players (or albums or whatever) is going to take potshots at a sacred cow or two by its’ nature, but your argument against Jason Kidd is really weak. Fine, so he can’t shoot. Everyone has known this since he was at Cal and he’s still managed to have a HOF career, including more or less single-handedly lead some pretty mediocre Nets teams to the Finals.
He was the best rebounding guard in the NBA last season (10.7/48 min) as well as being most prolific rebounder on his own team by a significant margin as the PG. His asst/TO ratio was better than Nash’s, behind only Billups, Paul and Jose Calderon. Of course, he’s also a significantly better defender than everyone you mentioned with the exception of Billups and maybe Baron. And all this coming from a 34 yr old dude. I’d except that Nash and maybe a healthy Baron are better than him now but Kidd in his prime was top 5 all-time and he’s still in the elite tier of PGs.
The rest of your list is solid (although, Michael Redd? calling the rest of the Bucks roster a “solid supporting cast” is a dubious assertion at best). I’d be interested to see who’s on your underrated list.
Everything eles I agree with, except for J-Kidd and D-Williams….To that I say ” ARE YOU FUCKING BLIND” Did you watch the jazz in the playoffs last season, it was the D-Williams show! he is a top 5 pg in the league, and i think you are the only person who will take cp3 over him, cuz i wouldnt, and as for Kidd……. The best pg since Magic and Stockton, hands down.
Chris “I will be out of the league with injuries within 5 years” Paul over Deron Williams? You are an idiot. Deron is bigger, stronger, a better shooter and can lead a playoff team…
“Chris Paul? I don’t know him…” - The NBA Playoffs
I respectfully disagree with a few names on this list
Deron Williams-health isn’t as much of a concern like it is with Chris Paul. I don’t think that Paul’s game is that much better than Williams if is he hasn’t been on the court long enough to break away in the comparison.
Jason Kidd-This is probably the last of the true point guards in the league. Kidds shot has never been consistent and probably never will but he does make players around him better. My example would be the Nets going to the finals back to back years with very little talent outside of Kidd and Martin. I don’t think there many point guards who could work with less and go to the finals.
Other than that I pretty much agree with List
CP3 health problems? his ankle injury this last year was the first of his entire career of basketball, lil tykes to the present. How can you say he has health issues when this is the first one ever?
I see why you put Kidd, people say if he was 100% white, he’d be MVP, and not just half. Does no one remember Jason Williams? But you over estimated Kidd’s rebounding and ability to make people around him, he essentially assured Kenyon Martin and Richard Jefferson got MAX contracts, saved Nachbar’s, Mikki Moore’s career. and there was a reason San Antonio offered him maximum money when he was a free agent.
Lamar Odom and Richard Jefferson more overrated than Antwawn Jamison?
Antwawn Jamison can’t guard a chair, always looks for his shot first, got a maximum contract from GS because GS gives bad contracts see their history. Dallas wisely traded him for Devin Harris, when he hadn’t played an nba game yet.
also disagree with Marcus Camby he makes eddy curry, tyson chandler and samuel dalemburt money. the dude’s really good, just injury prone. HE WAS largely responsible for NY Knicks making NBA finals as an 8 seed!
seems like you didn’t scour nba roster starters before righting this piece, otherwise no way you miss Antwawn Jamison, see playoff games versus cleveland last and miami last three years. Antwawn makes guys like Nocioni look all NBA.
Lamar Odom is now a SF. Please update your list. Also, he would have been an all-star last season if not for injury. Remember, he started his first 10 games at 25-10-5.
You could also add VC or KG or T-Mac to that list too.
how dare you put jason kidd on here? I didnt even waist my time reading the rest of this because im sure it is down right biased. U ont like kidd? Right? He is a hall o famer who averaged a trip dub in the playoffs. you are?
Gibson? Sounds like some sour grapes from a Pistons fan who saw one too many Boobie 3’s raining down on them.
How about Tayshaun Prince for overrated? He shot like crap in the ECF’s and wasn’t able to slow LeBron’s 48 point detonation!
Jason Kidd and overrated??
Lebron thinks he is the best point guard in the league.. period! This was before he played with him this Summer. Carmelo called him the MVP of the national team. Kobe… well Kobe is pissed off with the Lakers beacuase they didn’t get Kidd.
Did you even think of the contracts McDyess, Kenyon, Jefferson, Moore, Scalabriene, etc. signed? Who do you think they owe at least half the money to?
Kidd is one of the best offensive PGs (he doesnt have to score to be that) of all time and probably in the top 3 defensive (good) PG of all time. Plain and simple!
Well I guess you are a Detroit guy.. so Kidd must be over-rated and Chauncey under-rated.
Lively discussion. Keep in mind that players can be very good, but overrated.
Deron Williams didn’t lead a playoff team. Carlos Boozer led a playoff team, and he had Mehmet Okur and a great bench to boot. Williams is fine, but he is not yet an all-star.
The Hornets missed the playoffs in the West by three games. David West missed 30 games. Peja missed 69. Bobby Jackson missed 26. Devin Brown missed 24. The team featured starting lineups that included Janerro Pargo, Hilton Armstrong, Cedric Simmons and Brandon Bass. Without Chris Paul, that team wins 24 games.
To argue that Jason Kidd is better right now is ridiculous. It’s the NBA. It matters whether you can shoot or not. When he went to the finals, they had a peaking Richard Jefferson in addition to Martin and an absurdly bad Eastern Conference.
I don’t think Chauncey is under-rated. He is regarded as an all-star, and he plays like one. Jamison would have made it ahead of Camby, but I felt compelled to use the all-NBA format.
HAHAHAHA, what we have in this article is a pistons fan who can’t get over himself. Like someone mentioned eariler, nobody is more overrated that your own player Tayshaun Prince. People were claiming he should be an allstar. For what the distgusting jumper and “great” defense. Real great, allow two dunks in the final minutes of regulation of a close game. I guess what we have here is the Lebron effect. It must be if you put Daniel Gibson on the overrated listed. Are you nuts? Im sorry he kept puttin it in your eyes and Boobie hit one to many threes for the chumps from Motown to overcome. Maybe next time they should send their fans on the court to try and ge the other team’s superstars suspeneded. That has worked for them in the past. A joke city, and a joke organization.
As a Jazz fan who watched about every game last year I can promise you that Deron williams was the leader of that team, when Boozer missed a couple of weeks in February the Jazz were fine, Okur’s game went on a huge slide after the All-star game almost disappearing in the playoffs, and in the playoffs against the spurs williams was absalutely ridiculous. Williams was the anchor of that team the couple of games he missed were painful to watch. Deron williams is already 2x as good as Andre Miller ever was, he almost averaged 20-10 last year. I think he belongs on the All NBA under-rated team.
I think it was a good list but a number of names stick out to me as being miss evaluated.
Michael Redd- The only reason i think that he is NOT overrated is because NO ONE claims that he can do, what he clearly does not. Meaning, people only hype him up for his Shooting and nothing else. I dont see anyone hype him up for athletic, defense, or passing abilities. If he has a great shot (which he does), he should get recognition for it, whats wrong with having great shot? He plays in Milwuakee for god sake, its just wrong taking away the only thing the people there have to cheer for.
Marcus Camby- Even though he is a much older player, he has consistantly put up top notch defensive numbers the last couple years and it just so happens that this past year he FINALLY got recognition for his hardwork. I DONT see him slowing down this year but expect to see him put up the same numbers he HAS been putting up.
Deron Williams- One of the very few YOUNG starting PGs, who doesnt seem to struggle. Now i wouldnt put him in front of Chris Paul but any PG who starts every game and is able to put up 20 assists in game, i would say has JUST A LITTLE bit of potential. Its not like hes 30 years of age, i still see alot of growth in his game.
Anyone that says Tayshaun is OVERRATED, is an idiot also.
Nice list! 2 of them are wrong though:
1. Mike Redd, you HAVE to remember, even though he is balding, he is still a young and entering his prime. He is neither overrated, nor underrated.
2. Derron Williams, really??? Overrated?? This kid averaged over 10 assists in his second year. Chris Paul, who you prefer, did not achieve this (injured or not). Your argument really breaks down about Williams here, especially when you point out he is 23 and ESPECIALLY when you compare him to Andre Miller. You know what is keeping him from becoming Andre???? HE CAN SHOOT!!!! LEARN TO WATCH, im a twolves fan and im offended…CHECK YOURSELF
Saying that Kidd has to be a good shooter just seems weird to me. Point guards should be pass first, pass second, than maybe shoot third. Otherwise what do you get? Guys like Stephon Marbury and Steve Francis who are supposed to lead teams but just shoot shoot shoot. Or you get the guys like Kobe and D-Wade, who run the offense because #1. They are great players and #2 The coach expects them to make everything happen. Didn’t the Nets beat Billup’s Pistons both times the Nets went to the finals? Yes I am a Nets fan, but you are saying if Billups switched places with Kidd, the Nets still would have beat the Pistons? I highly doubt it.
how do you overrate a player who is 23 and under (deron williams, monta ellis)? deron put up awesome numbers and will only get better. monta isn’t even 21 yet and is still finishing puberty. kidd overrated? have you seen him play with his team? why does his team always win? you argue that jefferson is overrated. they can’t both be overrated if the nets are solid every year. and if redd and kidd are overrated cuz their team isn’t outstanding, then i guess kobe bryant is only mediocre as well. how does this posting get into truehoop??
Good list. But there are two that don’t belong: Jason Kidd and Camby. They should have been replaced with Dirk and Yao. Dirk for his annual post-season disappearance act and Yao for the simple fact that even though he’s the highest scoring center in the league, he lacks the ability to take over a game. He’s had some of the most quiet 35 point performances on record and his already beaten up legs won’t last much longer. Here are a few others that could have made the list: Vince Carter, Shawn Marion, Manu Ginobli, and dare I say it….Lebron James. He’s touted as a King, but isn’t even the best player in the east. He’s nowhere close to Kobe and lacks the intangibles of Wade. He’s a physical specimen, but a Jordan-esque superstar he’s not (at least yet).
“Derron Williams, really??? Overrated?? This kid averaged over 10 assists in his second year.”
No he didn’t.
“ESPECIALLY when you compare him to Andre Miller.”
If all we can say is that he is better than Andre Miller, my case is made for me.
“HE CAN SHOOT!!!!”
Agreed, but this is apparently unimportant.
“im a twolves fan”
Ouch.
“Point guards should be pass first, pass second, than maybe shoot third. Otherwise what do you get?”
Magic Johnson.
“Or you get the guys like Kobe and D-Wade”
I would trade Kidd AND Vince Carter for either.
“Yes I am a Nets fan, but you are saying if Billups switched places with Kidd, the Nets still would have beat the Pistons?”
You do know that happened four years ago, right? I wouldn’t trade Billups for Kidd, and it’s not because I’m a homer.
“how do you overrate a player who is 23 and under (deron williams, monta ellis)? deron put up awesome numbers and will only get better. monta isn’t even 21 yet and is still finishing puberty. ”
Easy, you expect him to become a superstar, when his ceiling is borderline all-star.
” kidd overrated? have you seen him play with his team? why does his team always win?”
His team won 50% of the time, and will do about the same this year.
“and if redd and kidd are overrated cuz their team isn’t outstanding, then i guess kobe bryant is only mediocre as well”
Are you kidding? Kidd has Vince Carter on his team, and won two fewer games in a far weaker conference (where the Nets went 10-20). Maybe the Nets should trade Carter for Odom and watch what happens.
Any credibility this list may have had quickly vanished when you got to the 1st team back court. Jason Kidd? He is on the short list of greatest pure PGs ever. I should have just stopped reading there.
Daniel Gibson? He isn’t even a starter when everyone on the Cavs is healthy. You are putting a 7th man on the all overrated 1st team? Bitter, bitter man. Who exactly is rating this guy so high?
Wow this topic sat up here for a while before everyone got mad.
Camby IS way over-rated. It was a HORRIBLY kept secret last year that pretty much everyone was shocked that Camby won the defensive player of the year. Shawn Marion had that award pretty much wrapped up in most people’s minds. Additionally its a well known fact that Camby likes to play EXTREMELY close to the rim, which while increasing his rebounds ALSO gives the opposition way more easy shots than they would get against a normal C. Camby was the best pick on this list imho…
Jason Kidd is only over-rated if you think people still regard him as the player he was at the turn of the century. I haven’t exactly taken a poll but I’m pretty sure from the commentary I’ve read that EVERYONE in the league knows Kidd has slipped, including Kidd. People get excited by his triple doubles BECAUSE he’s almost all used up. It’s hard to “over-rate” a guy in his position…. unless you’re one of the like 9 posters on here who flipped out as if this were 2000 and Jason Kidd was still the man.
Gibson was a pointless inclusion. The only people who BOTHER to rate him at all are Cleveland fans and Detroit fans. The fact is the media had alot of fun with “Boobie”, didn’t say ANYTHING about the bajillion FT’s because it hurt their story (and the hopes that the Cavs had more than one player on the court for the finals). NOBODY is expecting Gibson to “break out” this year and as someone else mentioned, he’s not even guarenteed to start. Such a player CAN’T be over-rated no matter how much I dislike them (and HONESTLY believe they’re a less talented version of JR Smith… no, really yo).
Jermaine O’Neil is incredibly pre-mature and probably inacurate too. How can a player almost NOBODY talked about during last season be over-rated? Haven’t you at least CONSIDERED the possibility that what he wants more than anything is out of Indiana and that it’s affected his play significantly? What about the injuries, don’t those factor? IMHO when JO gets his ticket out of LarryLand he’ll go RIGHT back to being the player he was 3 years ago when we GENUINELY feared the Pacers might take us in any given playoff series. As for the no offence argument, also pointless. JO is a defensive PF who’s primary job is to obliterate anyone who comes NEAR the Pacer’s paint. He’s not an offensive STIFF, he just doesn’t earn his pay by putting balls through the ring.
Deron Williams & Monta Ellis - Way way way way way to early to say about either player and you should already know that.
Look I appreciate this list, but it looks to me like Kevin basically put together a list of guys he was tired of hearing the media talk about last year. Which is great, but it’s not really a fair “all over-rated NBA team”. Some of your picks we’re spot on but Kevin I think it’s INCREDIBLY revealing that so many of your guys were EC Central players… Ie players you see and HEAR about way more than the rest of the nation as a Piston’s fan (and yes I know you live in or near Minnesota, I hit your blog last night the point is that by following the pistons you focus in particular on their enemies just like the rest of us do).
Also Jim, you’re fired. The commentary was not only unapreciated but reveals you to be a clown with an axe to grind. This is what I love about Cavs fans, even after you freaking WON you still can’t stop. Prince is rated as fairly as he’s ever going to be rated in a league that’s all about points. He doesn’t get ANYWHERE near the love that Bruce Bowen gets for being not quite as good at all the same things. Boobie Gibson isn’t even a marginal starter in the EC, alot of guys can drop three’s….. very FEW guys go to the line 37 times in a 6 game series WITHOUT driving significantly.
You got lucky, you got a pass from the refs and your wonderboy had a great game. Good for you. There’s absolutely NO need to prove you have zero class to go with your “microwaved media bite basketball knowledge” by insulting the CITY of Detroit.
I know this is a bad place to mention this, but Chauncey B-b-b-b-b-billups deserves to be on that list in place of Kidd. He’s a good player, especially when matched up against tiny point guards (remember little Jameer?), but he shoots a terrible percentage. His shooting percentage last year (one of his better shooting years) was only fifteenth among point guards, behind such luminaries as the aforementioned little Jameer (who has been repeatedly killed for shooting so poorly), Jarrett Jack, Chucky Atkins, Luke Ridnour, and Smush Parker. Oh, and he only shot 2% better than Kidd, who obviously can’t shoot at all. This might be excusable if he were the only good scorer on his team, but unfortunately he has three other guys who can score… and as for his reputation as a clutch shooter, an article on ESPN a while ago showed he is actually one of the worst clutch shooters in the league, with his reputation for last minute heroics resting almost entirely on that ‘04 run. Again, not saying he’s a bad player, but his reputation as an elite point is totally undeserved.
No arguments here.
I’d add LeBron James to the list. Every video game makes him Basketball Jesus. Jordan didn’t get that until he WAS Basketball Jesus.
Hit an outside shot with more regularity, Yankee Fan.
Jason Kidd’s 2007 FG%: 40.6%
Chauncey Billups’ 2007 FG%: 42.7%
Jason Kidd’s 2007 PLAYOFFS FG%: 43.2%
Chauncey Billups’ 2007 PLAYOFFS FG%: 43.5%
As far as I can tell, Jason Kidd’s shooting ability is just as horrible as Chauncey’s (or just as good as Chauncey’s depending on how you slice it). I am a fan of both players but to discredit Kidd because he can’t shoot all the while supporting Billups and saying he’s better than Kidd is a bit much.
Kidd has made Kenyon Martin, Richard Jefferson, Mikki Moore, and countless others filthy rich because he elevates their game to respectable to pretty good levels. Where would they be if they had never played with Kidd?
Are you kiiding me?
Jason Kidd being overrated? He is easily a top 5 pg ever? He may not shoot well from the field but he gets everyone involved and makes his teammates better. Not his fault that he plays for a crappy organization? He does not have much help besides carter and the oft injured jefferson. He carries his team to the playoffs with 1 1/2 teammates. He should not be on this list. Same for Deron Williams this man made leaps and bounds fron his rookie to soph year. You cannot compare him to Andre Miller, he was the best player on a lottery team of course he stats will seem good. But Deron it on a playoff team with estblished stars and leading them as a second year player I would say thats pretty damn good.
You should have put Lebron on here, he is good and maybe great but he is no where near what the nba and other sponsors make him out to be. He does not have a consistent jumper and is not clutch in game winning situations. Like the greats Michael or Kobe. He does not have that killer instinct thy have, he is more of a Scottie Pippen he needs a Jordan to win it all. Yes he lead his team to the finals everyone says he did it with a bunch of scrubs. I beg to differ L. Hughes was an all star before he got there he is trying to change his game, be more of a spot up shooter which he is not but him and LB play simular games so you can’t have to slashers thats why he was so good with the wizards because he was the slasher and Arenas was the shooter. Their center was an all star also. Gooden was a top 10 pick.
I do agree with you on most of the guys on this list but J Kidd and Deron should not be on here. And Prince James should be.
I am not knocking Lebron I do agree that he is one of the better players in the league. People are just making him a Hall of
PistonsGirl
Gibson was a media darling after the EC Finals. Didn’t you read all the articles calling on Brown to start Gibson in the finals? I think the comments here are a pretty good indication that nobody considers him to be washed up. At any rate, last season was about the median for his career.
I think Western Conference players in general are more likely to be underrated (see Chris Paul) because there are so many good teams. Marion and Nash were close to making it, but their team averaged 59 wins over the last three seasons, and their PERs still place them in all-star territory.
I would also support Kevin S. on his decision of putting Gibson on the most Overrated list. Because i can recall alot of media hyping him up so much so that people were starting to think he was going to be the next Magic Johnson (because of his rookie performance in ECF).
the difference between Andre Miller and Deron Williams?
Andre Miller (when he was younger) was a good player on a bad team
Deron Williams is a good player on a good team (so they probably shouldn’t of made it past the second round of the playoffs if the mavs were playing, but those cleveland teams were no where near good enough for the playoffs in a bad east)
and i’d say at least some of the reason that kidd doesn’t have a great shooting percentage is that he has the ball in his hands for about 42 mins of the game, and when he’s going for a shot its with less than 5 on the shot clock and he has to create some of the shots on the fly
Sure I did, until they did start him and it did almost nothing. After that all I remember is most of America begging for it to be over. I think Gibson was clearly exposed to everyone but Brian Windhorst last finals. I don’t think its a coincidence that EVERY major basketball media source has been killing the Cavs for doing nothing all offseason. Nobody thinks Gibson is a difference maker and him elevating to the starting lineup is just probably going to end badly this season.
So yeah, for about a month and a half, Gibson was over-rated…. ever since then he’s been “The guy who’s PROBABLY better than Eric Snow”.
Keep taking Chris Paul over Deron Williams. Then watch in astonishment as Williams becomes the best point guard in the league. Williams, overrated? Idiotic.
But you lost ALL credibility the moment you said Jason Kidd is overrated. Is he a top 5 PG of all time? No, of course not. What he is is a man who has had a FAR FAR FAR better career than Steve Nash. Nash is the product of his team’s system. Dallas is proof of that.
I don’t think Gibson’s overrated, because he’s not highly-rated to begin with.
He was given credit for exactly one spectacular game, and nothing else, really. He got some quality playing time in the middle of the season, so he was ‘exposed’ then. He wasn’t a serious candidate for ROY, and he wouldn’t be a serious candidate for many of the better teams’ SG, so how would he be overvalued?
Kidd wins flat out you say what u like but he wins just look at the guy he was traded for to get to nets “starburry”. EXACTLY everyone else agreed Kevin martin was the MIP last year and boobie was/is being hailed as the “saviour” that lebron needs.
PS add lebron to the list watching a game between him and wade and first impression is lebron gets a lot of his points in situations suited to him D.wade scores when he wants to (See NBA 2006 finals)
and Kevin we clearly have different opinions on d.wills ceiling but i wud still take paul over him
Nenad Krstic, Nate Robinson, Jamal Crawford, Stephon Marbury, Kenyon Martin, Channing Frye, and Sebastian Telfair all are and/or have been overrated so consistently by the ny media that they’ve got to be on the list. I’d also add Chris Bosh, Flip Murray, Baron Davis, Antawn Jamison, Mike Miller,and Jason Terry
“Some of your picks we’re spot on but Kevin I think it’s INCREDIBLY revealing that so many of your guys were EC Central players”
“I think Western Conference players in general are more likely to be underrated (see Chris Paul) because there are so many good teams. Marion and Nash were close to making it, but their team averaged 59 wins over the last three seasons, and their PERs still place them in all-star territory.”
Missed the point man!
I’m surprised more people aren’t more upset by the inclusion of Jermaine O Neal. I thought people believed he was still an all star. I agree that he’s not. He’s pretty undependable. Sad. He’s entering his 10th season, am I right? he’s 10 NBA years old, and he’s not getting better.
Yeah, LeBron’s overrated. SLAM magazine had him as a future “greatest of all time” when he was in second year high school, so he may be forever overrated, i think. Unusually though, it’s usually the haters that overrate him, then call him overrated, just so they have something to say.
How can you have a 2nd year player as a starter on the all over-rated team? You seriously couldn’t think of a better shooting guard? Jamal Crawford didn’t come to mind? He’s at least put up 40+ pts in an actual NBA game. Or what about Jason Terry? Ricky Davis (even though he puts up stellar numbers)? Jason Richardson?
I totally disagree with your ranking for Daniel Gibson. We’ll see how he plays this year, and perhaps he could find a spot on this team in the future.
Maybe you should consider Shawn Marion being over-rated, and over paid. Before the all star game, Nash got injured. The ‘All Star’ Marion averaged 11 points during Nash’s absence and logged around 40mins in each of those games. Phx played 3 games before the All Star game without Nash. Marion and Amare, TWO ALL STARS lost twice to teams that were in the lottery. Struggled to win the game in Portland(another team that didn’t make it in the playoffs), the game had to continue in overtime.
He can’t create his own shots. Listed as a PF\SF. No post moves what so ever for a PF. Doesn’t have handles to drive to the hoop without assistance.
Also an over-rated defender. Sure he can block shots and steal but it’s not enough to slow down actual All Stars from scoring over him. Opponents still average 103 on Phx.
Marion is good, but over-rated.
And Jason Kidd is a legend.
Daron Williams should have made this list because he isnt a true play maker, watch any jazz game and he cant make any play without getting help from jerry sloan, during the games sloan got ejected, Daron didnt know what to do.
He is a decent player on a team that has a good support cast, he isnt a steve nash or even close to tony parker, Daron Williams cant hit the 3 very well and most of his strategy is to run into the defenders as fast as he can, toss up the ball and hope for a foul.
He didnt do that well against SA, people made it sound like he shut down the spurs with his uber offense, if you wathc the phx/saseries and the ut/sa series, totally diffrent, SA wasnt even trying, there was no intensity, and the spurs showed the jazz who was king, I do recall jazz fans throwing stuff after their team got exposed.
all the arguments against kidd are weak except for the fact that he’s gotten older and slower, that’s true. but remember this point guards in a half court setting tend to age slower than regular guards so the argument that kidd is almost out is not completely true. the agument about kidd’s shooting is old and tired. he couldn’t shoot and was still almost an MVP. and this:
“Point guards should be pass first, pass second, than maybe shoot third. Otherwise what do you get?”
Magic Johnson.”
gawd damn this is about the most retarded answer ive heard.
magic was the ultimate team player and a triple double machine like kidd so please stop with the crap arguments cause, really, they dont make much sense.
also its not really fair to compare nash and kidd to each other because their style of play are different nash is fast break no defense score at will style while kidd has his grind it out lock down defense with a tendency to go uglyball when the going gets tough-style. in short nash is fast break, kidd is half-court.
also your low-blow on his old abuse charges are older than my little brother
Maybe I’m a little late here, but how can Jason Kidd be overrated? Did you watch the USA team? How can the difference between him and Chauncy not be seen when watching that team? JKidd is head and shoulders above Billups as a pg. Have you seen the Hollinger ratings for “Mr. Big Shot” in the clutch? He shoots 16% with the game on the line, so what good is it to have a Point Guard, who can supposedly shoot, if he can’t make it when it counts? Remember in 04 when Kidd completely shut Chauncy down, he had 0 pts in that game. Also you put Tony Parker above him? Please, talk about a guy who can’t shoot. Being able to finish around the bucket and being slighty selfish does not mean you can shoot. The funny thing is that it doesn’t matter what I say or what anybody here says because the writer of this article is far too stubborn to ever admit when he is wrong about something. That being said, I believe Kidd was just involved in this list to get you and me annoyed and get some hits on his writing.
listen i really don’t like jason kidd but he is one the best point guards in the league period. to be honest i would say chauncy billups is more overrated than kidd. billups was not that clutch last, his numbers went down and even with all the talent around him the pistons underacheived.
Daniel Gibson has been recognized for 3 playoff series, he doesn’t start, and he is in his second year. Nobody is saying he’s an allstar so how is he overrated, if nobody rates him really.
Deron Williams also should be off this list, he’s young and we know he can play he had a great season last year and was good in the playoffs.
I think Vince Carter, Kenyon Martin and Rasheed Wallace should be up their constantly underachieving when they have huge talent.
Look, this is just a suggestion okay because I don’t actually work here but jeeze guys tone down the insults. I don’t agree with everything on this list, but the idea is to debate the issue RATIONALLY. Nobody is a moron just because they think Jason Kidd gets too much press (he does btw). Calling someone elses arguements “idiotic” and then posting purely subjective “evidence” to defend your point is not only bad internet manners but it also makes you look like a fool.
Again I don’t agree with everything Kevin said but please as someone who’s submitted an article or two here I’m asking that you at least respect the time and thought that went into this. The arguement against Kidd is ALOT better than any of you seem to be giving it credit for.
Idiotic is a JR Smith cross court pass… this is a decent OPINION piece.
“also your low-blow on his old abuse charges are older than my little brother”
He has a fresh new set of accusations as of Thursday. Dude has a track record.
I see the point on Gibson, but he was literally the most talked about player going into the finals, and he is glaringly bad. Further, this IS a Pistons blog, so including Gibson felt right.
You realize that for Ben Wallace, the Bulls paid 60 million dollars for a veteran and to steal them away from a strong division rival.
Also, Michael Redd was injured much of last year for the Bucks. When he was out, THEY WERE TERRIBLE! They have a TERRIBLE SUPPORTING CAST! I saw Michael Redd score 48 points against the Bulls last season. He couldn’t miss. It’s not that he was being a ball hog or anything. No one else on his team could score. Granted that they have no defense, especially Redd and Ben Gordon had 52 points, the Bucks lost.
The reason Jason Kidd is overated…
As many point guards who play from blacktop to hardwood know, you’re taught to say one word on misses by your opponents: “Outlet!!!”. Meaning, pass me the ball so I can get the break going… Jason Kidd doesn’t get those spectacular rebounds over 6-10 PF’s one handed while almost falling out of bounds… Nope, simple, stat inflating, everyone else is boxed out and my coach knows I’m an impressive passer but slow as syrup so I need to get the rebound and get the ball to one of my swing men wings before the defense has set up rebounds. That’s his game. It has been working for him but it’s simple math for a team that wants quick shots in the open floor. One less person touching the ball saves about 3 seconds from a team trying to defend the fast break. He can’t shoot, rebounds through a system geared for him to ultimately get assists, and can make some nice passes here and there. He is strong but his on the ball defense has never been good and only worsens with age. Overrated??? You Bet!!!
Ummm, Michael Redd plays SG, not SF. How can he be overrated at a position he doesn’t play?
Paying $60 mil for something isn’t stealing…
Andre Miller has 100 3 pointers in his 8-year career. Williams will get 100 this year. As for the commenter who said he can’t make a play w/o Sloan, are you joking? He and Phil Johnson just call the same “C” (screen and roll) play over and over again anyway.
How about we all stop responding to this retarded post, its a cry for attention from a down hearted piston fan! D-Will is the best pg in the L not named nash or kidd! Kidd is one the the G.O.A.T.S at the pg position. Camby is a great pick at center, hes a hard worker and good defensive player. Redd is a deadly shooter……… And yes Big ben is overrated……… Im out
Here we go: Let’s start with daniel gibson. I disagree with this. I don’t think he’s a star, which is exactly my point. This guy slipped to the second round and comes off the bench for a mediocre team. I don’t think anyone thinks he’s a particularly good player, a solid, young reserve with upside is what he’s rated and that’s pretty accurate.
Jason Kidd is not overrated. he can’t shoot, good point. a lot of guys aren’t great shooters. Kidd had almost identical shooting percentages (fg, 3pt) as Gilbert Arenas last year. he also averaged 1.6 steals, 8 boards and 9 assists. oh, he’s also 34 years old. Give the guy a break. oh yeah, and your boy chris paul isn’t dead eye either. he’s better than kidd, sure, but he shot 43.7% from the floor, not exactly eye opening.
monta ellis seems a little random to me too, but i can go with that one. And no offense, as your a pistons fan, I’d argue Rasheed Wallace should go on this list now. I’m not saying he’s not an accomplshed player, he certainly is. But people still think he’s a franchise guy this year..he averaged 12 points (on an abysmal 42% shooting)and only 7 boards, coupled with being a volatile (at best) personality. those are below average numbers for a starting PF in the NBA.
Jason Kid is one of the best players in NBA history.
This is stupid.
“Lets be serious”– Actually, I think we should get a hell of a lot more people to read and respond to this. I submitted to Digg:
Digg This Article
If you don’t already have a Digg account, create one and click “digg this” on this article. Do it, and we’ll find out what a few thousand other NBA fans think…
Personally, Jason Kidd? He did rebound well from his ex-wife, but he can’t seem to score well with the ladies without an assist from johnny law… “When he’s not smacking, groping or otherwise generally having his way with women”. Priceless… Great article, Kevin S.
Hahahah, sorry milk just came flying out of my nose when someone seriously said Camby is a hard worker.
“Yes, I have seen Kidd play. He’s good. He’s just not as good as Steve Nash, Chauncey, Chris Paul, Gilbert Arenas, Tony Parker or a healthy Baron Davis. Why? Because he can’t shoot.”
replace chauncey with Kidd on detroit and you have multiple rings. replace B. Davis on GS with Kidd, and you have the fastest tempo in the NBA. replace Nash with Kidd in phoenix, you have the fastest offense in the league with some actual defense being played. remember NJ runs variants of the Princeton offense, imagine if he had the entire floor opened up to him like nash does…
quite honestly, most of these i agree with, but you missed the mark by a mile on this one. even at his age he’s the point i’d go with today. over nash, over billups, over anybody else you can come up with. why? hes the only guy in the league that can dominate a game without scoring a single point.
“As many point guards who play from blacktop to hardwood know, you’re taught to say one word on misses by your opponents: “Outlet!!!”. Meaning, pass me the ball so I can get the break going… Jason Kidd doesn’t get those spectacular rebounds over 6-10 PF’s one handed while almost falling out of bounds… Nope, simple, stat inflating, everyone else is boxed out and my coach knows I’m an impressive passer but slow as syrup so I need to get the rebound and get the ball to one of my swing men wings before the defense has set up rebounds. That’s his game. It has been working for him but it’s simple math for a team that wants quick shots in the open floor. One less person touching the ball saves about 3 seconds from a team trying to defend the fast break. He can’t shoot, rebounds through a system geared for him to ultimately get assists, and can make some nice passes here and there. He is strong but his on the ball defense has never been good and only worsens with age. Overrated??? You Bet!!!”
and yet somehow he manages to average a triple double in the playoffs…
“Jason Kidd is only over-rated if you think people still regard him as the player he was at the turn of the century. I haven’t exactly taken a poll but I’m pretty sure from the commentary I’ve read that EVERYONE in the league knows Kidd has slipped, including Kidd. People get excited by his triple doubles BECAUSE he’s almost all used up. It’s hard to “over-rate” a guy in his position…. unless you’re one of the like 9 posters on here who flipped out as if this were 2000 and Jason Kidd was still the man.”
well heres the thing, Kidd gets more triple doubles in a season than most people get in a lifetime.
quite honestly, u put Kidd instead of nash on phoenix, with the system designed for him, all of a sudden Phoenix can be the best in the west, why? because kidd can go half court or fast break with no problem.
First of all, Williams didn’t average 10 asts. He averaged 9.3, only .4 more than Paul. What do you think Paul would’ve averaged had Peja not had back surgery or had more offensive weapons? Deron also averaged more turnovers than Paul. Cyprexinia, I’ve noticed that too. Just about every time he goes up the court he has to look at Sloan. He’s a system point guard (not that there’s anything wrong with that). I have League Pass so when I’m not watching Paul, I’m able to catch some Jazz games. Chris Paul missed 18 games after landing on some big slugs foot and still managed to have a higher total of Wins Produced than Deron. Deron is nice, but Carlos Boozer is the man over there. Boozer not missing 50 games this past season is what really got them over that hump and into the playoffs. Paul was 3rd in PER for point guards, only behind Arenas and Nash. Deron has always had better teammates (in college and the NBA) but he’s not quite better than Paul. If you think he’s better than Paul simply because he helped his healthy team with 3 All-Stars on it get to the playoffs, you’ve either not watched much of Paul or you’re a Paul hater. Get yourself some League Pass or view some youtube highlights if you don’t know about him.
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2007/05/30/defending-chris-paul/
“Hahahah, sorry milk just came flying out of my nose when someone seriously said Camby is a hard worker.”
lol
Yes i do, think Camby is a hard worker. Hes been consistant on the defense side of the ball for years now.
For people claiming Deron better than Chris because Deron has gotten to the playoffs, last season Elton Brand got into the playoffs and KG didn’t. I sure as heck don’t think that means Brand is better. If that’s the case, Daniel “Boobie” Gibson is better than a whole lot of players. LOL!
sayin Kidd is not as good as Nash, cp3, Arenas, Baron Davis, or tony parker is not a good comment. With the exception of Parker, None of those guys has ever led their teams to the finals. And to say they are better than kidd because they are “better shooters” only makes kidd looks better. Because he took his team to the Finals…. Twice. Because he does all the little things you need to win, and dosent need to shoot the ball to be effective. It is a reason folks why every player in the NBA wants to play with him. Kobe damn near cried when he didnt get kidd.
Mohamed, Phoenix will never win the Western Conference because winning playoff basketball while still giving your opponent 350 possesions a game is impossible. They’re alot of fun to watch but Isiah Thomas in his PRIME wouldn’t get that team to a finals…
which brings me to my rebutle. It’s pretty simple really, Kidd WAS an elite player in the NBA… 2 Finals, MVP consideration and even stretching Detroit to 7 the next year. Since then he’s added Chris Carter and yet NJ is really not a team to fear in the EC. If the arguement is Jason Kidd makes everyone around him better and that’s what makes him so special how does one explain the past couple seasons which have seen NJ pretty much fall off the map? So when NJ rises above inexperience and injury (see Kidd’s first two seasons) it’s all Jason’s fault and yet when they fail to do the same thing (see the past two seasons) it’s not Kidd’s fault and he’s still a top 5 PG? This line of reasoning is very flawed.
He’s slipped, significantly.
Which of course brings me to appologizing to Kevin for calling him out on the Kidd pick, I REALLY had no idea that people were still trying to claim he’s the same player he was 5 years ago… cause that just isn’t true at all.
Is it me or are all piston fans just pure haters! If anyone is overratted its those “Bad Boy? wannabes. They have been going down hill ever since they beat the lakers, Maybe they should change their slogan to ” Wait til next season”. They let 1 man beat the shit out of them in the playoffs. And if the Spurs destroyed the Cavs the way they did, imagine what would have happened if the pistons had made it. NOW THATS OVERRATTED
It’s you… now quit trying to bait someone into explaining to you that people have been predicting Detroit’s eventual demise since 2001. In that time the team has been to three Eastern Conference Finals. Yet every new year Detroit is pick to “fall off”, “get old”, “finally be exposed as over-rated”… and every year we make the ECF even though the OTHER teams in the East change constantly.
Think about it cheif, this Piston’s empire has been through HOW many different “mortal enemies” in 5 years? The Nets? An aging shell, we ripped their heart out (and that includes your boy Kidd). The Pacers? So f’ed up after failing to beat us for 4 consecutive seasons that they’re trading ANYONE with talent for WHITE PEOPLE now, on PURPOSE. The Heat? Old and useless they built a team to beat us for ONE season at the cost of their entire future. The Bulls? Still haven’t proven they can win 3 games out of 7 vs Detroit, let alone 4. The Cavs took us to 7 once, and then beat us once on the strength of Lebron having a SUPERHUMAN game and some VERY questionable fouls for Gibson…do you REALLY think they can do it again?
Why don’t you call it a night and come back NEXT offseason and tell us all how over-rated Prince is, and how Detroit is gonna suck and we can tell you how great it feels to watch your team go to 6 straight EC Finals.
“Jason Kidd is not overrated. he can’t shoot, good point. a lot of guys aren’t great shooters”
He ranked 40th among PGs in FG%, and 29th is True-shooting percentage. Is every good point guard an all-time great? How many all-time greats are there? If there are 40, then he is an all-time great.
” But people still think (Wallace is) a franchise guy this year.”
Well, this is a Pistons blog. Does anyone here think Wallace is a franchise guy this year? Does Wallace think he is a franchise guy this year? No. If we have a franchise player, it is Billups. Wallace’s weaknesses have been addressed ad infinitum by the press.
“replace Nash with Kidd in phoenix, you have the fastest offense in the league with some actual defense being played. ”
Replace Nash with Kidd and you have a 50 win team that loses in the first round of the playoffs. I agree that Nash (and all Suns players) are overrated by virtue of their teams fast tempo, but there is no comparison.
Kidd does things that don’t show up on the stat sheet, though.
“Ummm, Michael Redd plays SG, not SF. How can he be overrated at a position he doesn’t play?”
He plays both, technically, so I fudged a bit.
Jesus, i think someone told the ‘i want to have jason
kidd’s child’ club that we had this post running…
He’s a good PG. it’s not easy getting as many triple doubles as he does. shows he doesn’t mind doing hard work.
I’m still sticking with camby. i think he is a hard worker. and i think that pointing out how he likes to play inside or how he’s injury prone doesn’t make him look any worse
i don’t think all these people are even Jason Kidd fans - they’re just people who recognize that it’s kind of a tiny bit crazy to say Jason Kidd is the MOST overrated PG in the league today. Really? Nobody more overrated than a guy who AVERAGED a triple double in the playoffs? From the point guard position? Seriously?
I couldn’t care less about Jason Kidd or the Nets, but that statement pisses me off just cause it’s so ignorant.
I think we can all agree that he isn’t the player he used to be; that’s not the point. We can all also agree he doesn’t have much of a J - also not the point. The only way you can appreciate a game like his is to watch it. Not the boxscore. Not espn highlights. Watch him play. Even as old as dirt, he can still do what he needs to in order to make his teammates better. Isn’t that the role of a point guard?
You got basically everything wrong here, this is crap. Michael Redd is awesome- he will light you up from nywhere n can play d (when he was playing behind ray allen they scouted him cuz of his d)
Camby aint over-rated, if he wernt injury prone ppl would recognize how good he is, n it finally happened this year when he won best D award
Both point guards need a change-jason kid; overated - u gotta be kidding me, he aint need 2 shoot when he can get other ppl twice as many baskets as they would without him….deron williams is the jazz n if u mightve noticed they went pretty decent this year.
its gibson 1st year give the kid a break, just cuz he lit up ur “bad boys” (who still cant get over ben wallace) in the playoffs doesnt mean u gotta hate on him n monta ellis can improve his j n as soon as he does he got the quicks to burn every1
the only one u got right was wallace, why cant the man learn to shoot from more than 5 foot, absolute dud when he aint on d….
this list is way off..jason kidd? monta ellis? this year hes set to make $780,000, averaged 16per 4dimes 1.71stls, and is barely old enough to drink. last year was his coming out party. and deron williams? all he did was lead an average group of guys to the western confrence finals, there starting center had 40blocks, even know who he is of the top of your head? thats ok you shouldnt. hes one of those guys who makes everybody better around him.
JASON KIDD OVERATED?…..YOU HAD THAT GOOD STUFF BEFORE YOU WROTE THAT ONE. I AGREE WITH MOST ON YOUR LIST…BUT JKIDD TOOK THE NETS TO BACK TO BACK FINALS..SOMETHING NASH HAS NOT DONE EVEN ONCE..I COULD WRITE FACTS ALL DAY ABOUTH THIS..BUT KNOW WAY JKIDD IS OVERATED
PF4L– Bravo. You’re my hero of the day!
“PF4L– Bravo. You’re my hero of the day!”
Co-sign
But they keep coming, i guess they didnt read her post.
“I think we can all agree that he isn’t the player he used to be; ”
I disagree. Last year was a very typical season for him. Look it up. That’s my point. As for Nash not making it to the championship, that is ridiculous reasoning. To do so, he would have to get by the top teams in the West, something NJ could not do (and had literally no chance of doing) in their finals appearance.
“Camby aint over-rated, if he wernt injury prone ppl would recognize how good he is,”
I actually think people overrate him for this reason, giving him every benefit of the doubt because he misses tons of games every year (which isn’t a virtue, btw).
Fwiw I find it amazing that everyone keps bringing up Kidd’s triple doubles when the guy actually flirts with a QUADRUPLE double every night out… Maybe next year he can try to turn the ball over slightly more, finally average that Quad-D a game and silence all the critics.. it’s like no matter HOW many times he turns over the ball nobody seems to give the man his due for it.
As for injuries and Camby that isn’t the problem at all. The problem is the guy absolutely REFUSES to provide help defence or take people on in the paint. He hovers back by the rim and waits for free rebounds and somehow that won the freak the Defensive Player of the Year award.
Seriously I would NOT want a big on my team who avoids contact or even freaking MAN DEFENCE IN THE PAINT like he does… borderline embarassing.
pistonsgirl4life. Get your facts stright. J-kidd is far from leading the nba in T.O’S. He is 36th in the nba WITH 2.7 T.O’S per game Behind players like Wade, Iverson, Nash, Kobe, Lebron, T-mac, K.G…. if your team puts the ball in your hands for 40 min of a 48 min game you would have a decent amount of T.O’S as well.
Also, i dont think the playoffs are over after “GOING” to the ECF. I thought the whole purpose of the game is to win the championship. You kno what they say about teams in any sport who won olny once………….. FLUKE. Dont get me wrong, i think the pistons are a helluva team, but getting to the EFC is all they have accomplished over the past couple of years. So how dare you say another player is overratted, when your team is allways picked to go to the finals and maybe win, but every year you fall short! I guess they are just happy with those stupid trophys they give out for winning the east.
“Replace Nash with Kidd and you have a 50 win team that loses in the first round of the playoffs. I agree that Nash (and all Suns players) are overrated by virtue of their teams fast tempo, but there is no comparison.”
no, you have boris diaw taking a seat, better ball distribution, insane fast breaks, and a point who actually plays some D. pistonsgirl…ur right kidd isnt the same player he was 5 years ago, but some say hes actually better…largely in part to him being a point guard. remember point guards tend to age very well, with stockton going well into his early 40s and still being one of the top points in the L. kidd on phoenix opens up the floor for everybody, because hes one of the rare players that cant shoot but yet demands constant attention. nash is right there too, but his talent and skills tend to be a bit overrated. what im saying is if Kidd had a team built around him, that team would go all the way. for any successful team u need a big man, NJ doesnt have any big men of note. the finals years they had KMart who was a beast in the low post and on the break. if kidd was on phoenix theyd take it to the spurs.
*Laughs*, I think I was making light of his two games vs Cle (where yes he was pretty good) this playoff with 8 turnovers. On both night he was indeed within reach of the dubious Quad-Double.
Still point taken, I’m sorry I didn’t make it more clear that I was mocking the entire debate (no sarcasm intended).
Mohammed, I really don’t see how you can say that though unless you’re telling me K-Mart is the entire difference. Seriously guy I’ve been a Piston’s fan for a long time and I remember fearing Jason Kidd a few years back.
I’m not afraid now because I don’t think he can beat Detroit all by himself anymore, maybe in one game out of 5 at best really.
Yet as recently as 2001 the guy was death on two legs and singlehanded turned a NJ that’s LESS talented than the one they have now into a finalist.
The arguement that he’s somehow better now doesn’t seem to hold weight when I watch the guy play. Please remember I’m not making the same point as Kevin is here, I don’t necissarily think Kidd is over-rated… but people are saying “top 5 PG ever” and that just is NOT true of this man anymore.
let me point out a few facts you should take notice of…
Leading rebounder among all guards- J. Kidd
3rd in Assists- J. Kidd
Closest to averaging a Triple Double per game over the course of a season since The Big O- J. Kidd
5th in all time assists per game- J. Kidd
3rd in all time triple doubles- J. Kidd
If statistics aren’t really your thing Kevin then you would say overrated is because they are regarded as better than they actually are. How good must a player be when the most similar comparisons of players are Magic Johnson, and Oscar Robertson. His shooting percentage is lower no doubt, but at a 34% clip from 3pt land in his New Jersey career, his shooting is better than believed. In 06-07 Chauncey Billups shot 34.5% from 3pt. Jason Kidd shot 34.3%, hardly enough of a difference to say that Billups should be taken over Kidd because of shooting. Kidd averaged more assists, rebounds, and steals per game. While Chauncey Billups shot the ball better, thats all he did that was better, and your argument for Michael Redd being overrated is that he can only shoot. So while Chauncey Billups gets 4 more ppg, he gets 2 assists less, nearly 5 rebounds, and half a steal a game. With the extra assists, rebounds, and steals Jason Kidd easily shows he is a much better Point Guard than nearly everyone in the league. You say his numbers are bloated because he plays with Vince Carter and Richard Jefferson among other good players, but his production throughout his career has also been uniform. This contradicts itself, you need to get your facts straight. Still holding a grudge that Jason Kidd shared the ROY with Grant Hill? I did my research because you made me think, and I believe there is no valid argument used against Kidd. New Jersey has never had an inside presence; without an inside presence Kobe Bryant hasn’t been able to win anything either. Kevin Garnett hasn’t been able to get past the conference finals, without help and he isn’t overrated? He is a certain Hall-of-Famer, first ballot without a doubt. He also is considered one of the best of all time Kevin Garnett also is considered one of the best all-around players without a doubt, but even he doesn’t have as many Triple Doubles as Jason Kidd. Over his career he has averaged more Points, and Rebounds than all-time-great John Stockton. He only has one less apg, and very close in spg. When it is all said and done he is one of the greatest of all time, and you are a complete idiot.
How can you not have Vince Carter on your list?
Well looks like Andy just about sewed that Jason Kidd debate up. These overrated arguments are so deeply flawed it hurts my brain just thinking about it. But being a hopeless masochist, I’ll give it a shot anyway… First, while making an argument that Deron Williams is overrated someone (the original poster? I don’t know and am too lazy to scroll up and find it) suggested that Chris Paul is a better player and that if anyone disagreed they are either a CP3-hater or they don’t get league pass. Well I have league pass and I love me some CP3, so maybe I’m qualified to debunk your scurrilous notion that Mr. Williams is overrated. A few fun stats courtesy 82games.com:
Player Assisting %: (% of Team FG Made while on court with Player that were assisted by Player)
Nash 46.8%
Williams 40.3%
Paul 40.2%
Field Goal Made Activity: (Players FGM + Players Asst.) / On Court Team FGM
Nash 58.6%
Williams 53.5%
Paul 53.1%
Now, in terms of the more standard numbers, Paul does have a slightly better Asst. to TO ratio, but Williams is still in the top 10 in that category. In roughly the same MPG, Paul scored about a point more, while Williams had about half an assist more. I think its safe to say that they are both pretty good at what they do. They play on different teams, in different systems, each with a game well suited to their situation. Also the notion that Boozer had a lot to do with their playoff success is not wrong, but they weren’t getting a whole lot from Okur or AK, and both he and Williams played like manimals. New Orleans, even healthy was a 7 seed and probably weren’t getting out of the first round. Thats not a knock on CP3, but 49 year old Peja isn’t scaring anyone anymore.
EVERYBODY IS GOING TO HATE THIS ONE. STEVE NASH WON BACK TO BACK M.V.P’S, IN THOSE 2 SEASONS HE PLAYEd WITH 2 OTHER ALLSTARS, 6TH MAN OF THE YEAR, MOST IMPROVED PLAYER OF THE YEAR. AND DIDNT EVEN MAKE IT THE THE CONFRENCE FINALS. MAGIC IS THE ONLY OTHER POINT GUARD TO 2 STRAIGHT.AND HE HAS MULTIPLE CHAMPIONSHIPS. I KNOW HES THE GREAT WHITE HYPE, BUT BACK TO BACK? HERE IS THE LIST OF THE OTHER BACK TO BACK WINNERS YOU DECIDE. OH THEY ALL HAVE ONE THING IN COMMON RINGS
DOES HE BELONG ON THAT LIST? NO.
Bill Russell 61-63 (5 total)
Wilt Chamberlain 66-67 (4 total)
Kareem Abdul-Jabber 71-72 & 76-77 (5 total)
Moses Malone 82-83 (2 total)
Larry Bird 84-86 (3 total)
Magic Johnson 89-90 (3 total)
Michael Jordan 91-92 (5 total)
Tim Duncan 02-03 (2 total)
This guy has obviously never been to an NBA game. JASON KIDD are you crazy…did you see him play for team USA? Stop reading fantasy magazines and watch the games.
Ok,
Now let’s start off by saying I agree w/ most of them to you, but I think that you are way off with Jason Kidd, Marcus Camby and Deron Williams.
JKidd… while he may be a legal albatross due to his alleged behavior towards women, he has to be one of the best PGs if not second only to Nash in the game. (Anybody that argues that Nash isn’t the top PG, btw, is a fool - is there any other pg in this league that could handle that offense, the pace, dish out his high level of assists and still shoot at the ridiculously high percentage he does — didn’t think so! Also, if it weren’t for a key injury one year and a harsh rule during another playoff run, they may have already won two championships!) Regardless, JKidd has helped the mediocre KMart and Richard Jefferson win two FAT contracts. If anything, the only way you could put him on this list is that his excellent floor general skills cause mediocre guys to get awarded massive contracts. Other than that, he is one of the best post up pgs, rarely misses a game, is an excellent leader, amazing distributor and he does what he needs to do as a point guard. In fact, instead of putting JKidd up here b/c he is being not enough of a scoring guard, you should put AI here for being not enough of an actual point, and just look how many real wins he has brought to Denver and Philly btw…
On to Marcus Camby… Now, his injuries do make him more of a liability, but you cannot discount this man’s skill. It seems like you are looking