From Steve Kyler on HOOPSWORLD:
A new suitor seems to have emerged according to a league source. This source admits the deal sounds more fan-based than team-based but says it’s been making its way around and that’s the Detroit Pistons. According to the source an offer of Tayshaun Prince and Richard Hamilton could be what is on the table. If the Pistons are genuinely looking for a way to trump the Big Three in Boston cashing out Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun might be enough, especially considering how much the team has gushed about Amir Johnson. Pistons sources admit the idea is intriguing but could not confirm if the deal has legs, so at this point it could be exactly what it sounds like – a good idea, but until a Piston’s source confirms it, be skeptical.
I’m skeptical, as well — this almost certainly sounds like something that originated on talk radio. But, the salaries do match: Rip ($10 million) and Tayshaun ($8.675 million) will combine to make just under what Kobe ($19.49 million) is due. I’d hate to see Tay go, but Jarvis Hayes is a starting-caliber player. Detroit would lose depth, of course, but they’d gain perhaps the best player in the NBA, so I’m not sure Detroit would (or could, really) pass on this.
That said, I doubt the Lakers would pull the trigger, not unless there was something else added to the pot. And unless that “something else” is a couple of second-round picks, it’s probably too much for Detroit to seriously get involved.
(Update: looks like PistonsNation found this first, as well as a creepy Rip Hamilton mask …)
Other HOOPSWORLD articles of note: Bill Ingram caught up with Chauncey Billups and Jarvis Hayes (media player on the lower right).
That would be a Great Birthday present 4 me. Pull the Trigger Joe!! I know the lineup would take time to gell, but potentially (i.e. if Amir & Jarvis live up to their potential) they could really be special. Anyway we can perhaps send Stuckey and/or Affalo and draft picks and keep Tay. Probably not, but as much as I would hate to see him go, I think we’ve seen the best we’re going to see from Tay. But hopefully I’m wrong.
F’Sho-Ya Daily Dose of Sardonic Rillness’
http://sobo.podomatic.com
I came across a video that said “Serbian player doesn’t like to lose” and thought it looked like Darko Milicic. So I click the video and it is none other than himself. Sounds pretty angry. Was this before he joined the NBA?
Probably NSFW: http://www.break.com/index/serbian-basketball-player-doesnt-like-to-lose.html
The Darko vid was from this past summer during the Euro championships. He ended up getting fined $14K from FIBA and received a stern talking to from the Grizzlies (which I suppose is better than a Stern talking to from the commish). Here’s some more info.
I like it, but don’t see how the lakers trade kobe with out getting picks and young guys in return. We’re the team to beat if it does happen. And don’t tell me that Joe isn’t looking into it with everyone saying chicago gets bryant.
This will never happen in a million years. Joe Dumars will never turn his back on Tayshaun and Rip. He won’t even turn his back on Lindsey Hunter for God’s sake!
That’s the video where he threatened to kill those FIBA refs and have his way with their daughters. Oh that wild & crazy Serb…
I don’t think the Pistons would be the team to beat if they gut their team and give up Prince, Billups and Rip for one me-first player in Kobe. Much Like I don’t think Chicago would either (http://www.bullslive.com/2007/10/18/just-say-no-to-kobe/)
P, no mention of billups in the trade. Hate kobe in la, love him in detroit. Name a team that complained after picking up a 1st teamer and “gutted” their team. Hear any complaints in boston? How about Denver? Miami? I don’t mention NY or curry since Isiah is always going to get the worst end of a deal. Bottom line, Prince and Rip for Kobe is 85 cents on the dollar.
I hate to say it, but with Hayes in town, this trade would work. Much as I love Tay and Rip…
The one way I’d welcome Kobe is if the emotional divorce between the Busses and Kobe becomes so severe as for Kupchak to be ordered to merely match the salaries for one player of note with anyone. Under such circumstance, I’d be willing to part with Rip and our collection of bench salary for Kobe.
Something like this.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=110~3187~2214~294~568~1777&teams=8~13~13~13~13~13&te=&cash=
I’d be willing to gamble on Kobe’s knee. I’d be willing to make one of the best backcourts in the NBA much better. I’d be willing to watch Kobe explode for 80 points on Charlotte or the Lakers or Seattle. I’d be willing to watch Kobe tell Rasheed to chill while Kobe gets a tech not too long after him for looking at a ref funny. I’d be willing to see about 72 wins be broken from a team that stayed healthy through the season, yet again. I think I could put up with Flip’s neck cranes as yet another Kobe play was drawn up for him like yet another KG play was drawn up for him back in Minnesota.
I think I could deal with that.
The Palace Prince is ours, though. That’s non-negotiable. Tell Kuppy Cakes he can’t have our Compton Champion. Kuppy Caves. That’s what he does, whatever the Busses tell him to do.
Maybe we can include Phil Jackson in on that trade. Send Flip over there. He can turn Rip and the bag of nubbins into a playoff exit. Maybe.
I’d be willing to have a couple more championships and a long rebuilding process similar to the Bulls. Why not? Joe Dumars lived through that. So can Tayshaun.
I’d hate to see Tay go since he brings everything. I would like it better if it was sheed and rip with a 1st and the 2nds we got from the delfino trade. I doubt that works financially.
Oh god…
I’m going to admitt this PROBABLY isn’t rational but please please please don’t even think about this deal…
I am not ready to wake up in a world were Tay is a Laker and I’m expected to buy a Bryant jersey. Even if it GUARENTEED a championship (which I’m not sure it does) that’s just not a price I’m willing to pay.
It won’t happen anyways. Joe D has a bit to much pride about winning with no superstar I think to pull the trigger. But thats not the reason I know it won’t happen:
Kobe controls where he goes. He won’t want to leave La for detroit. Detroit is too small of a market in his eyes. He’ll just deny the trade with his no trade clause
Too small of a market is Cleveland. That’s why LeBron wore a Yankees cap to the Jake.
Detroit’s about 10th in the top ten markets. Down there, all the way down there, are places like Utah, Cleveland, and San Antonio.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_metropolitan_area
Chauncey gets national deals. Kobe could still get them back with a move to Auburn Hills.
Pistons uniforms are the home row colors of the United States. That also helps. You can wear those to work and make it work on “show your spirit day” much more easily than yellow and purple.
“Detroit is too small of a market in his eyes.” As in kobe’s eyes. I’m not saying Detroit is to small, I’m saying its too small for Kobe. Kobe needs press, he needs attention. I can see him canceling any trade that has him coming to the D
Is there a no-Colorado clause in his contract? Or maybe it’s just a generic, no hotel women unless you want to pay another 3 million for a ring clause.
This deal will never happen for one reason and one reason only. $$$$. Bill Davidson would never green light the 100 million dollar extension any team who trades for Kobe is going to have to sign him to to keep him from opting out next summer.
No way. I would hate that trade, I hope and pray dumars doesnt do that. I think it would make the team way worse. They have a much better chance of winning with the team they have, and I don’t think we should put all of our stock in amir and jarvis being consistently as good as rip and tayshaun have been.
I have to agree with PG4L. I don’t care if our chances to win the title would be better with Kobe, I don’t want him here, Period. Kobe and team basketball don’t belong in the same sentence. Except when typing down that they don’t belong in the same sentence.
Kobe doesn’t know what he wants. He thinks he wants on a team with better players, yet if a team has better players the ball is going to get shared more which gives him less touches, less PPG, and in the end makes him less important not being the whole team which I’m sure would hurt his big ego.
Look, my 2 favorite Pistons are Tayshaun and Rip. This would break my heart.
But if it can be done, you MUST do it. You don’t often get a chance at the best player in the league. You mean to tell me that a hyper competitive desperate-to-match-Shaq-in-the-championship-column along with Chauncey, Jarvis, Rasheed, and McDyess as the starting 5 with Max, Amir, Stuck, and Afflalo coming off the bench isn’t far and away the best team in the East? You’re insane.
I don’t think market size is a big a concern for Kobe as the chance to win a title. And him moving to Detroit ABSOLUTELY is his best chance at it. Chicago would be a close second. I think that’s his bigger concern.
All that said, there’s no way the Lakers accept that deal. Plus I’d be a little surprised if Joe D actually offered up Tay, he’s locked into a reasonable deal and Joe seems to think Tay has a future in the front office.
I dont see this deal working out.
I dont see why everyone wants him on the Pistons, when we all know
“the team first” style of play deos NOT work well with the “me first” style of play.
We talk about getting younger but why are we willing to trade two the youngest players in our “core”? Hamilton is 29 and Tayshaun is 28, so we are willing to trade both of them for a one player that is 29 himself? I know im downing on Kobe Bryant but if we are serious about getting younger we should not trade both of them for someone is the same age, maybe one of them with Chauncey or Sheed But not both of them. And then on top of that we will probably need to throw in some of our YOUNGER POTENIAL (Amir and/or Stuckey) for the Lakers to even buy into trading for Rip and Tay. So much for getting younger.
And then what makes it a guarantee for us to win another championship? Kobe has a known history for having problems with his own teammates and willing to bash them in front of the media. I think Rasheed is enough for the Pistons to handle being that he is ONLY a on the court problem but now you bring in a guy who could be a disruption in the locker room.
And finally, If the Lakers and Pistons end up pulling a deal off, Kobe has a Player Option coming up this coming summer. If the Pistons end up not meeting expectations again this year, i do think Kobe will opt out of his contract and go into the FA market. Good thing we traded Rip and Tay for him….or not.
Diablo,
Sheed is not a problem. He is one of our best players, he is fearless, and he is a leader. From what I have seen, he gets along with everyone on the team, with the exception of Flip Saunders from time to time. Even though he has problems with the refs, he is more valuable than both Prince and hamilton, because of his value among the fans, and his constant pursuit of WINNING. I’m not taking value away from your opinion, just saying that Prince isn’t getting any better and hamilton is easily replaceable.
TomALIred,
Seriously, don’t hate. His personal life is for him and is none of your business. That’s cheap, and Kobe Bryant is by far the best player in the NBA.
Also, isn’t Isiah in a little bit of trouble right now? How about Billups? Wasn’t he accused of similar charges? Keep in mind that Kobe is like Britney Spears, if he breathes, the media is all over it, and people are out to get him.
The point I want to make is that Joe D has to at least try to make this move, because if Chicago gets Kobe, say bye-bye to Detroit’s finals run. If he is considering going anywhere in the east, Dumars has to do something about it.
I’m mixed on this. Not only do I HATE the idea of giving up Rip and Tay, but I can not imagine “Kobe” as a “Piston”. Our blue collar heritage would be out the window, we’d be glitz and glamour and rape. Wait, did I just say that?
If it were to happen, we might need another bench spot filled to facilitate that trade. Imagine bringing Webber back for that?
billups
bryant
hayes
wallace
webber
Disclaimer: I don’t like Webber back in ANY other consideration, for me, I want nothing more than this lineup on the tip:
billups
hamilton
prince
mcdyess
wallace
I’m no NBA exec but I doubt the Lakers will bite on Tay, Rip and draft picks, but who knows. Others have said that it would take more than that including one or two of our “bright” future in Amir or Maxiell.
Now if we indeed got Kobe for Rip and Tay and picks, for sure it will take some time to get used to, I love Rip as much as I love Sheed, Chauncey and same with Tay, it was tough to see Ben go, it was just a dream team to me. But laides and gents, lets face it sooner or later one more of our beloved Piston 4 will leave and one by one they will all go into the sunset. Now Kobe, we either love him or hate him but, when it comes to individual play bar none this man is above all, there are players in the NBA that can rub shoulders with him but only LBJ and KG, and LBJ is still on the path to the top and KG is a walking injury, Im 100% sure that Bostons season will be cut short and labeled a disappointment because of injury to one of their 3.
But back on topic, our squad would be unstoppable, Kobe would have all the help needed and im sure on certain nights he would not be the feature presentation.
Someone said that what we have seen from Tay is his best, wich i think is far from the truth, Tay is asked to be a role player and not the go to guy, he is asked to do it all on the court and im sure he is more than capable offensively, i know he can light it up had that it been his role.
And Sheed and Kobe wearing the same uni, I think I might sell my soul to get season tix for that, no matter what the result.
But enough wishfull thinking, it is unfortunate that Kobe continious to be a 12 year old princess and had to run Shaq out of town, and says that his roomates at the Staples center are ages behind him, which is true but you wanted to be Batman not Robin and the real Batman out of there. Im sure this deal is not gona happen and in a big way Im happy, but still the “what if’s” pollute my brain.
Diablo, no team is trading for Kobe without the guarantee of an extension.
This Will not happen!!!!! Joe is smarter than that. Why would you send Rip and Tay to LA for Kobe. Only to see him opt out after next season!!!!!
On another note, I could see Tayshaun putting up Marion numbers in LA, plus assists… he’d be a monster.
I ran some Kobe trades on RealGM this summer and NEVER considered trading Tayshaun Prince. I always included Amir, not Tay. If you want to win now it makes zero sense to trade Tayshaun Prince. My trade:
Kobe + Chris Mihim
for
Rip, Amir, Nazr + Afflalo
Boston’s ‘Big Three’ vs. Kobe, Billups, and ‘Sheed would leave Boston with the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best players and Detroit with the 1st, 5th and 6th. Detroit needs a big four with solid but not spectacular veterans like ‘Sheed and Billups.
Matt, like you I doubt that this deal has even been discussed. Even it it was though if I was Joe I’d never pull the trigger. I understand how great Kobe is but he’s a known cancer with a ton of miles on those legs. Yes he’s 29, but it’s the minutes not the age that determines basketball youth.
I was also surprised to see that you said Hayes is a “starting-caliber” player. Huge potential coming out of Georgia but he’s been injury plagued since coming into the league. I’ll give you solid bench player but in four years has he shown you starter-like qualities?
Solid blog by the way. Keep it up.
This seems poorly sourced. Get a whiff of something out of LA, call someone at the Pistons office who would be immediately fired for saying the trade was off the table. Look, I love my Pistons as much as anyone, but that trade is terrible for Lakers. Look what the Wolves got for Garnett.
Al Jefferson, who is a pretty awesome young star.
A lottery pick
Another first round pick
Two role players
That’s what a superstar commands.
I think a lot of people don’t understand Kobe. Kobe Bryant’s a killer among winners. Perhaps people forget that everybody didn’t jump up and down in joyous celebration when Joe pulled the trigger for Rasheed. For that matter . . . dishing to Rasheed is a hell of a lot different than trying to get an assist with Kwame Brown.
The other thing is this idea that the Lakers will get anything of VALUE that EQUATES to Kobe.
The way I understand it . . . this is an argument between ownership and Kobe over Kupchak. Kobe doesn’t want Kupchak. They do. It feels very similar to Kevin Garnett.
The problem with that kind of situation . . . well, it’s THEIR problem. The other problem is that Kobe won’t sign off on a deal that nets multiple key cogs in return to the Lakers because Kobe would end up going to . . . a NEW LAKERS. When he got there, they’d be depleted of talent, and he wouldn’t be able to have any more of a shot at a title in his new home.
That tells me that the Lakers are ruined. They have to get rid of him, or they’ll wait until his contract runs out and get nothing for him. They have little bargaining power. Again, THEIR PROBLEM.
Mike Payne- Blue collar out the window? Kobe is the hardest working and fiercest competitor in the game. He lost 20 fricken pounds. If the Kobe Bryant of Usa basketball came to Detroit I might not mind it. He came into usa basketball willing and wanting to do anything to win and he was unselfish.
If we can do it without giving up Tayshaun, let’s do it. Kobe is a great defender and AMAZING scorer. If we are in a close game, guaranteed win with Kobe in the roster.
Bdizzle311- I never said Rasheed was a problem. I said Rasheed is enough for the Pistons to handle. Meaning that the Pistons are able to get by with Rasheeds on the court antics and still be a contender. I like Sheed, I feel that Sheed was the only who consistantly produced through-out last years playoffs. He is also my second favorite Piston on the roster. But the point i was trying to make is the Pistons dont need another “emotional/speak out” player. I cant imagine if the Pistons were not to play like they were suppose to be and Kobe starting a fight with Rasheed. Can you say ESPN’s top story of the day. -starting to get a head ache-
I hate how most people here are more worried about the teams image than winning. Like you’d rather see us lose to the celts in the conference finals (or the bulls in the semis) rather then take kobe bryant on the team. Glad all of you aren’t the GM. Not only would we be the most popular team in the league, with the best selling jersey, but we’d win. You want a goody goody squad, go root for utah. I thought we were the bad boys….
this trade will never happen. but seriously, Chauncey + Kobe + McDyess/Sheed + Maxey/Amir + Nazr is a championship winning team.
I’m not the kind of guy that honestly likes rooting for a team with a “big 3″ of all-stars, simply because it feels like I’ve resorted to wanting to see a team win that EVERYONE likes now that (insert any name of the big 3 here) is on the team.
I wouldn’t reject a Kobe to Detroit trade. I’d miss Tay, but I think Kobe’s a significant upgrade over Rip which means you have to give up some to get some back
Umm excuse me?
1) I don’t give a flying crap what wanna be fans who yell Kobe Kobe KOBE! to everything re: the NBA wear on their backs. In fact I’m frankly PRETTY DAMN GLAD they don’t wear Piston’s jerseys. It’s not even like the jersey sales would somehow help the team. Davidson has made it ABSOLUTELY clear that the Pistons will NOT be a luxury tax team. It’s not like he couldn’t afford that, he just isn’t interested.
2) Kobe Bryant has won exactly sweet F all without Shaq. Your assertation (and everyone elses) that the Pistons could automatically integrate Bryant into their core and win is PURE SPECULATION and nothing more. I can’t say for SURE it wouldn’t work but I CAN say that 8 of the last 9 championships have been won by the team with the most dominant inside big man in the NBA and this combination still lacks that. With even less evidence you CERTAINLY can’t say it would work for sure either… and yet you do.
3) The Bad Boys were about making teams pay physically to play inside the paint. They were NOT about jacking up 50 shots a night. They were NOT about giving themselves stupid nicknames. They were NOT worried about who was the alpha dog when and were, infact they REPEATEDLY told the media they didn’t give a damn what the world thought of them. They were NOT all about Kobe. And guy that’s WITHOUT mentioning that night in a Colorado hotel room.
You want to sell your soul to make up for a PERCIEVED weakness to a Celtics team that HASN’T PLAYED A REAL GAME TOGETHER EVER, or to shore up a hole vs a team we WHIPPED LIKE A RED HEADED STEPCHILD LAST PLAYOFFS… that’s fine chief. Where the hell you get off questioning my validity as a fan because I don’t agree that “All About KOBE” is worth it is where I’m getting lost.
Whatever money Davidson would lose to the luxury tax by paying a guy like Kobe, I’m guessing he’d gain in increased advertising revenue and exposure (which is why I’m also guessing the Lakers don’t do this deal in the first place …)
Matt, sure, that’s not what I meant though. I was merely pointing out that to me as a fan jersey sales don’t mean much when my team owner has already said he wouldn’t spend additional money if it meant being a luxury tax team…
In other words a couple billion Bryant Piston’s jerseys merely equals more money for Mr Davidson. He wouldn’t spend any of that profit on bringing in new players because it would mean being a luxury tax team. This was in response to the statement “Not only would we be the most popular team in the league, with the best selling jersey, but we’d win.”
I don’t care how many jerseys the Pistons sell because it does nothing for me as a fan.
I’m not referring to jersey sales (which I don’t think directly help a team), I’m referring to advertisements, in the arena, on TV, etc.
It’s been estimated that Alex Rodriguez brings in an extra $48 million a year for the Yankees, which is why he can realistically ask for $30 if he opt out. Different sport, different market, I know, but I’m just saying, marquee players bring in the money.
I don’t think Davidson is opposed to going over the tax solely based on principle, I think he’s opposed because he doesn’t want to give money away and lose out on revenue sharing. But if the bean-counters in the front office figure that going over the cap to retain Kobe means bringing in $XX million of profit that otherwise wouldn’t be there, I think he’d do it.
(This is all academic, of course, since this trade has no chance of happening.)
Let’s all be honest with ourselves for a second.
PG4L, you had to have a negative view of Rasheed Wallace when it was rumored that he was coming to Detroit. If you didn’t you were probably one of the few that didn’t think negatively towards him. Look at how he improved that team, almost single handedly when they acquired him.
I know I kinda looked negatively towards it, even though I knew how talented the guy COULD be based on seeing him at UNC and in Washington when I used to go to a few games a year.
Why would ANYONE look negatively towards picking up Kobe Bryant? He is above and beyond one of the greatest players in the league right now, and he can take over a game simply by being on the floor. Look, Rip puts up 20 a night, and it’s rare that he takes less than 20 shots. I really like Tay as well, but you have to give up something to get something. I’m not saying I WANT the trade to happen, but why be so hard up about Kobe not being a team player when it’s clear that he tries to make his teammates better, and outside of Lamar Odom there’s no talent in LA.
Because I’m absolutely not sure that he tries to make his team-mates better? For the exact same reason I’d be opposed to the Lions aquiring Deangelo Hall?
Look someone up there said it best “You’d be getting the Bryant we saw in the tournament of the americas.” IF that’s the case I’m pretty sure that’d make the Piston’s way better… I’m just not sure that’s the case.
As for reservations about Sheed, not really, I knew there was no way in hell we were winning a title with Okur at PF. I don’t think it’s fair to say this is the same situation. I think this current Piston’s roster is capable of winning a title (though I’ll conceed that I’m hardly confident it’ll happen given the past two years).
And fwiw, I’m REALLY not fond of Kobe Bryant. Like I agree with almost EVERYTHING the guy from http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/ says about Bryant (though again I respect the legal process, no use bringing that nonsense up in a reasonable conversation. The man was aquitted… though the need to buy a 3 Million dollar ring DOES beg the question… just sayin, but again, the guy was aquitted so I don’t hold anything but his personality flaws, and there are MANY of those, against him). No I wouldn’t stop watching the Pistons because he was on the team, but combined with losing a guy like Tay (I’d miss Rip, but not in the same way. I appreciate his contribution to the team but find myself having to ignore the things he says, his opinions, his behaviour and personality. He’s a great Piston, but he’s not the kind of PERSON I root for in sports… Tay otoh is EXACTLY the kind of person I root for in sports)? That’d take ALOT of winning, and ALOT of Kobe just not being “ALL ABOUT KOBE” for me to get over. I figure the team has it in them, but I’m not sure Bryant does.
And yes, for the next 25 people who are going to ask… I AM serious. Fwiw Ron Artest is probably one of the 10 most talented players in the NBA, I would STILL be pissed for weeks at Joe if we traded him straight up for Flip Murray and Sacramento threw in a first rounder… it’s Ron freaking Artest, duh. Same goes for Kobe.
Wow. You feel the same about ron “the brawl” artest as you do kobe bryant? I won’t even take artest in a fantasy league.
Craig being 100% fair… Fans shouldn’t have been throwing things on the court, particularly full beer cups… and as NUTS as everything was that night it wasn’t actually Ron Artest that blew everything up. It was Stephen Jackson (who might be the only NBA player crazier than Rickey Davis and Ron Artest combined). I mean don’t get me wrong I still think Artest is a maniac and a complete team killer but the brawl is merely one factor that makes me think that. The fact that almost everywhere he goes crazy sh*t happens is a MUCH bigger factor.
Look, lets put this another way. For all his flaws, Shaq is NBA royalty. He’s the kind of player who ends up being bigger than his contribution to the game long after he retires. For all Phil Jackson’s flaws, the Zen Master is NBA royalty. He’s bigger than his contribution to the game, a real insider. BOTH of these men have said at one time or another that Kobe is a problem child (and ROUGHLY in those terms) and not really a winner. Sure they’re signing different tunes right now because it suits their purposes (in Jackson’s case his job, in Shaq’s case because his status as a diminishing star no longer behooves him to agressively critisize people) but it’s hardly like they’ve been the first people to suggest Bryant has SERIOUS personality issues.
This isn’t fantasy basketball. Team chemistry and the ability to co-operate together mean ALOT in real life basketball. I can’t BELIEVE I’d be explaining that on a blog devoted to a team DEFINED by being bigger than the sum of it’s parts.
I’m absolutely 100% NOT sure Bryant would freaking destroy that.
Besides, if I wanted to watch a team where everyone stands around and waits for ONE guy to take 55 shots a night…. I’d watch the LAKERS… living in Toronto I’d assure you thats actually easier than the hurdles I jump to find Piston’s games on a nightly basis.
How is that so impossible to understand? EVEN if it meant another title, I wouldn’t really want that.
(Pet-peeve: it wasn’t beer! It was Coke! You can tell by the cup as well as the ice that splashed.)
I don’t think this is too bad a trade for either team. First, LA would be gettting the two youngest starters on our team, both in or entering their prime. Those two also would fit in nicely to Phil Jacksons offense. We would win two ships, unitl Kobe opts out. At that point, rebuild around our young guys. Not a problem. I’d take two ships and a rebuilding.
I, like many others here, am a huge fan of both Tay and Rip. But business is business, and Kobe is Kobe.
If the deal is on the table, you got to pull the trigger.
I’d even throw A. Affallo and a second rounder to sweeten the pot.
Hate Kobe, but you got to love him on your team.
Matt, noted (I said beer cup, but plastic drink cup full of ice also covers my point). Either way I stand by what I said, Stephen Jackson is the guy who made that whole situation go balistic.
and Piston’s Fan in ChiTown, no I don’t… I can begrudingly tolerate him in the name of winning however… see Williams, Roy WR Detroit Lions.
“Not only would we be the most popular team in the league, with the best selling jersey, but we’d win. You want a goody goody squad, go root for utah. I thought we were the bad boys….”
As a Piston fan, believe it or not, i perfer running under the radar. I don’t need the world media here in Detroit, trying to stir up trouble, thats partly why i think having Kobe here might be a mistake. We all know we’ve had a great team for the last 5-6 years, i think we should have popularity for THAT…NOT for having the most popular player in the NBA. If we made a trade to send away players that contributed to our success, JUST to get a player to make us popular and sell jerseys, than thats just stupidity.
We DO have the Bad Boys here, we don’t need to add a Bad Girl.
PG4L, I agree wholeheartedly with your assesment of the Kobe situation– he could be death to a team that has relied on balance and smarts to win. But even if we won, we’d be winning with someone who, to me, is an awful person.
You’re wrong about something, though: he wasn’t acquitted. The woman decided not to testify, so the charges were dropped. The most likely scenario is that a deal was cut where she would essentially drop the charges and then the civil suit she had filed three weeks earlier would be settled. It’s a fine distinction, but it comes down to no chance of jail time in return for the money. Oh yeah, and the woman was able to start getting her life back to normal after being the epicenter of media for a year. In a he-said, she-said case, the alleged victim is under as much, if not more, than the alleged perp. Getting paid to be able to walk away from the scrutiny is a great deal.
It just seems to me, on another level, that Detroit hasn’t ever bought into the idea that you have to build around a superstar. We’ve gotten stars through the draft, and through a ridiculous trade that sent away Chucky, a pick, Rabraca, and Sura (in that order of importance) in return for Sheed, but we haven’t mortgaged the house to buy a Porsche, and I don’t think we should. I just don’t see Joe D. making a trade that is the antithesis of his managerial style. He won a championship by giving a home to players who hadn’t found one yet. Plus, I would love to see Tay finish his career in Detroit.
By the way, PG4L isn’t the only one who had solid analysis/opinion. But since she writes 80 percent of the posts…
I was not aware she’d refused to testify, I just assumed he’d beat the rap… still, no victim = no testimony = no case. Like it or not that’s the system of law we live under, so that entire evening is off bounds in the Kobe discussion imho… AND I STILL DISLIKE HIM TREMENDOUSLY… that says something…
as for the 80% of posts… sorry, work was shall we say “incredibly uninspiring” today and my internet connection was the only one to console me
I think I speak for the majority of readers/posters when I say the site wouldn’t be the same without you. Just taking a little jab at the queen.
Thankfully, the deal wouldn’t ever happen in a million years…
*crosses fingers*
I would like to know why Kobe is a “bad person” based on what he has done besides the alleged rape and cheating on his wife. If the whole thing is out of bounds, including cheating on his wife, I don’t see how the rest of his life and career make him a bad person.
Kobe made one huge mistake. He thought he could win a championship with himself as the lone superstar on a team full of role players. So he drove away Shaq, who btw hasn’t won anything without another superstar playing alongside either. Kobe realized he screwed up, and decided to opt out and test free agency waters. He was lured back to the Lakers with two things: a boatload of cash, and the promise that the team would be made competitive.
That promise was not fulfilled. Kobe has been extremely frustrated over the last two years because the team has refused to make moves that would make them a contender now. Despite promising Kobe publicly that they would. Instead, they hang on to Andrew Bynum like he’s the second coming of Mikan and draft projects like Javaris Crittenton.
For two years, Kobe did his damnedest to make that team competitive. When he dropped 81 points in that game, he wasn’t running up the score. Until like the last couple minutes, the Lakers needed every one of those points. Kobe hucks it 50 times a game because that’s the best strategy the Lakers have given their roster.
But then what happens? Kobe gets blasted by a bunch of talking heads and writers who need to fill column inches about how he’s selfish. So what does he do? He snaps like in Game 7 against Phoenix in 2006 and tries to facilitate a collection of role players who simply aren’t that good. As the most talented player in the league, the demands placed on Kobe are simply unreasonable: take whatever junk the front office hands him and being a contender in a tough conference, but do it without meeting some nebulous definition of “selfish” that really only exists to make news stories out of nothing.
After two years of this and essentially admitting his mistake (he’s pining for Jermaine O’Neal for Christ’s sake), he snapped completely, something I can’t blame him for. I couldn’t imagine living under the pressure he has to simply because Shaq is a big oaf who’s good for a quote or two, so the media loves him, thus making Kobe the bad guy.
Find me cases where Kobe has talked about averages, individual awards, his own stats, etc. and I’ll change my tune. No, he wouldn’t automatically fall in with the Pistons, and there would be some adjustment. And I’m not sure Phillip is the right guy to coach him. But I don’t buy that Kobe is a me-first stat hog who would rather win scoring titles than rings, or even demands to do both. I think it’s much more likely that he would relish playing with teammates as talented as Chauncey and Sheed or Tay. I think he would relish having competent backups. I think having a defined role would suit him. Run through scripted starts to games, and if the rest of the team is off, take over. If he’s off, play tough D and pass more.
In short, I don’t think Kobe is a square peg in a round hole if he were to come to the Pistons. Whether or not Kobe agrees, I think the Pistons are exactly what he needs: talented, loose teammates playing in an atmosphere that isn’t driven by stars and media frenzy.
TRADE RASHEED!
Rip and Sheed for Kobe works salary-wise, and I’d rather keep the under-performing but in control Prince than the blathering embarrassment that is Rasheed Wallace.
It surprises me that so few people are floating Wallace’s name around the trade rumors. Maybe he’s proven to be such an idiot it seems unlikely the Lakers would want him.
I don’t want him on my team anymore. I’m sick of justifying why we have the biggest, whiniest, jackass in the league on our team. i’m sick of getting my hopes up in one playoff series just to see Sheed quit in the next.
I guess this is what really irks me. For that past year or two we’ve had to hear about how it’s really Sheed that sets the tone for the team. NO NBA TEAM WILL EVER WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP WITH RASHEED WALLACE IN THIS ROLE!!!
One way or another I want Sheed off my team. If getting rid of him can bring the best player in the league here, then all the better.
PG4L,
this is what I don’t get, and you may have already guessed it from my previous post. How is Kobe any worse than Rasheed Wallace? Does Sheed telling his teammates to ignore their coach help the team chemistry you value so highly?
If we magically get Kobe and don’t win a championship he’ll throw a fit afterward. However, if we still have Sheed he’ll throw a fit DURING a series and guarantee that we lose it (again).
I’m not saying I necessarily want Kobe on the team (though I am saying I want Sheed off it), but to say what a terrible person he is and what a chemistry killer he would be is a rather thin argument considering the problem child we’ve been harboring all this time.
2 Things…
I’m not wasting much breath citing examples of Kobe being selfish/egotistical/a team cancer. They are ALL over the net. I’m sorry you haven’t READ any of them but here’s a quick off the top of my head, just in the past couple seasons list:
Scored 81 points in a single game, seriously read that again yo.
Gives himself stupid nicknames
Runs around the court in purple compression shorts (read tights, yes girly fing purple tights).
Has repeatedly critisized his team-mates for not being talented enough.
Spent the summer killing his GM in public
Spent the summer killing the team owner in public.
That’s for starters…. the rest of it I’m sure you can look up.
2) Sheed was pretty ugly at the end of last year. He’s never jacked up 50 shots in a night to my knowledge however. Additionally it’s harder for Bigs to destroy team flow since they only get the ball once the guard sends the ball out to them, no so with a player like Kobe.
Look, feel however you want about the subject but know we’re pretty much 3 days away from this thread’s inception and way on a tangent…
1) Someone asked me to PROVE Kobe Bryant is a selfish player. That in an of itself should make it obvious this thread has gone insane
2) The Aquistion of Kobe Bryant is now being related to keeping Sheed Wallace which is NOT related to even this flimsy rumor.
Too much nonsense.
PG4L - “Someone asked me to PROVE Kobe Bryant is a selfish player.”
I think Kobe was selfish in the ‘04 Finals loss to the Pistons.
Kobe, ‘04 Finals vs. Pistons
43-113 FG, 38% FG%, 23-25 FT, 45% EFG%, aprox. 125 shots + fouls
Shaq, ‘04 Finals vs. Pistons
53-84 FG, 63% FG%, 27-55 FT, 68.6% EFG%, aprox. 111 shots + fouls
I know the Pistons played great defense in that series but Shaq had every right to complain he wasn’t getting the ball enough. Shaq shot over 50% from the field in EVERY game and had two games where he was unstoppable (13-16 Game 1, 16-21 Game 4). In both of those games Kobe still took more shots than Shaq. I know there is foul trouble for Shaq to consider but that works both ways. I know I was happy to see Kobe chucking it up night after night in that series.
I think Kobe is a great player and his defense and toughness would fit well in Detroit (think of his play for USA Basketball). But it’s never going to happen so no sense arguing. I’d rather have a Mutumbo-esque Shaq into his 40s playing 15 minutes a night.
Thank god you pointed that out, I almost accepted having a player who once wore compression tights on the team. WHAT WAS I THINKING?! I must have completely forgotten that one of the components of Deee-troit Basketball was good fashion sense. Thanks for setting me straight. I’ll also make sure to compile a list of guys who wore t-shirts in college and send it to Joe D so we can avoid yet another disaster like this one.
PG4L,
I know I’m wasting my breath, you irrationally hate Kobe Bryant and nothing anyone says is going to change your mind. And I never tried to make a claim that getting Bryant is related to keeping Sheed. I just think they’re both problem players, and given the choice I’d much rather have Kobe.
I honestly think if you just came out and said that you hate him and think he’s a prick and don’t want him on the Pistons we’d all respect it. But the flimsy evidence you provide just make you look silly:
“Scored 81 points in a single game, seriously read that again yo.”
yes he did. he’s also the teams ONLY scoring option. if he gets real hot, he’s bound to have a big game like this. I don’t care if Rip takes 30 shots, as long as he makes 20 of them. This isn’t proof of an overall selfishness, just of his role on the team and his incredible talent.
“Gives himself stupid nicknames”
the majority of the players in the lague do this, including Shaq (who you consider basketball royalty). why the selective prosecution? maybe because you irrationally hate kobe and are grasping at straws as to why?
“Runs around the court in purple compression shorts (read tights, yes girly fing purple tights).”
again, proof he’s selfish or more proof your hatred for him is irrational?
“Has repeatedly critisized his team-mates for not being talented enough.
Spent the summer killing his GM in public
Spent the summer killing the team owner in public.”
I’m lumping all these together because they fall under the category of “Unfortunately, He’s Right.” Wether you want to admit it or not, Kobe tried everything last year to be succesful, that included taking far fewer shots and trying to get his teammates involved. it didn’t work. why? because he has nothing to work with. I’d be as frustrated as him were I in his shoes.