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	<title>Comments on: Magic seek revenge on Pistons</title>
	<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/</link>
	<description>A Detroit Pistons blog</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2</generator>
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		<title>By: LawyerBoy</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91618</link>
		<dc:creator>LawyerBoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 11:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91618</guid>
		<description>Carey - Outrebounding a team by 8 isn't domination.  The Heat got DOMINATED in the opener, so much so that as even a diehard Pistons fan, I was bored watching.  The Orlando game did not strike me the same way.  Of course we'll have 8 more boards than them because defensive boards are easier to come by than offensive ones and we weren't missing enough (we missed 30 FGs, Orlando - 46) to give them any advantage on sheer numbers from the defensive glass.  

Regarding Flip, I'm not a staunch hater, I'm just conditioned to recalling that Larry won us a title doing things his way.  The Miami game was textbook Larry and the Orlando game was textbook Flip.  Both games were won comfortably, the former was way more boring, but to me, way more dominant/impressive in so many ways.  That's all I'm expressing in regards to uneasiness with Flip and the team.  Will we be switching identities/strategies or will we settle on one, and if so, which?  A win is a win, but I get nostalgic and feel more confident when we win Larry-style.

Jarvis has been sick, and it'll probably continue.  Let's at least hope it does.  And yes, that's a huge key to our success.  I wouldn't crown Tay and all-star yet, but he rules, no doubt.  I will say that the fact that Sheed has no techs now, doesn't mean he won't get them in the future.  He averages about 1 tech/4 games, so if we're well into next week and he doesn't have any, I might be swayed that he's turned over a new leaf.  Hopefully that's the case, but it's way too early to tell especially when he could've very easily been called for one in the Orlando game had the refs been running a tight ship.

I agree with a lot of what you said in your 5 points, and I absolutely love what you said about Joe D. and found it to be a wise insight that I had lost track of to some degree as of late.  Thanks for the reassuring reminder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carey - Outrebounding a team by 8 isn&#8217;t domination.  The Heat got DOMINATED in the opener, so much so that as even a diehard Pistons fan, I was bored watching.  The Orlando game did not strike me the same way.  Of course we&#8217;ll have 8 more boards than them because defensive boards are easier to come by than offensive ones and we weren&#8217;t missing enough (we missed 30 FGs, Orlando - 46) to give them any advantage on sheer numbers from the defensive glass.  </p>
<p>Regarding Flip, I&#8217;m not a staunch hater, I&#8217;m just conditioned to recalling that Larry won us a title doing things his way.  The Miami game was textbook Larry and the Orlando game was textbook Flip.  Both games were won comfortably, the former was way more boring, but to me, way more dominant/impressive in so many ways.  That&#8217;s all I&#8217;m expressing in regards to uneasiness with Flip and the team.  Will we be switching identities/strategies or will we settle on one, and if so, which?  A win is a win, but I get nostalgic and feel more confident when we win Larry-style.</p>
<p>Jarvis has been sick, and it&#8217;ll probably continue.  Let&#8217;s at least hope it does.  And yes, that&#8217;s a huge key to our success.  I wouldn&#8217;t crown Tay and all-star yet, but he rules, no doubt.  I will say that the fact that Sheed has no techs now, doesn&#8217;t mean he won&#8217;t get them in the future.  He averages about 1 tech/4 games, so if we&#8217;re well into next week and he doesn&#8217;t have any, I might be swayed that he&#8217;s turned over a new leaf.  Hopefully that&#8217;s the case, but it&#8217;s way too early to tell especially when he could&#8217;ve very easily been called for one in the Orlando game had the refs been running a tight ship.</p>
<p>I agree with a lot of what you said in your 5 points, and I absolutely love what you said about Joe D. and found it to be a wise insight that I had lost track of to some degree as of late.  Thanks for the reassuring reminder.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Payne</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91541</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Payne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 04:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91541</guid>
		<description>Thanks Matt!!  *grabs calculator*  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Matt!!  *grabs calculator*  <img src='http://www.detroitbadboys.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: PistonsGirl4Life</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91441</link>
		<dc:creator>PistonsGirl4Life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 23:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91441</guid>
		<description>Okay... but I'm STILL not forgiving Lloyd Carr (EVER) if we don't beat OSU and win our bowl game... just sayin....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay&#8230; but I&#8217;m STILL not forgiving Lloyd Carr (EVER) if we don&#8217;t beat OSU and win our bowl game&#8230; just sayin&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: pipe morgan</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91437</link>
		<dc:creator>pipe morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 22:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91437</guid>
		<description>DEEETROIT SPORTS!!!  

Gotta love our teams now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DEEETROIT SPORTS!!!  </p>
<p>Gotta love our teams now.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt C.</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91431</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 22:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91431</guid>
		<description>We got the Lions doing great. We already had good hockey, baseball, and basketball teams for a while, now the Lions are doing good too. We know the Tigers didn't pan out as good as last year, but they still aren't bad. The Red Wings have 11 wins and 2 losses. And our Pistons are off to a nice start at 2-0, not a bad city to a sports fan, eh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We got the Lions doing great. We already had good hockey, baseball, and basketball teams for a while, now the Lions are doing good too. We know the Tigers didn&#8217;t pan out as good as last year, but they still aren&#8217;t bad. The Red Wings have 11 wins and 2 losses. And our Pistons are off to a nice start at 2-0, not a bad city to a sports fan, eh?</p>
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		<title>By: PistonsGirl4Life</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91383</link>
		<dc:creator>PistonsGirl4Life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 19:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91383</guid>
		<description>No, we are not better without Rip. - Agreed.  ESPECIALLY now that he's finally developed into a defender on par with the rest of the starters.  

Unrelated but am I the ONLY one having trouble rationalizing the fact that the Lions are about to be 6-2?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, we are not better without Rip. - Agreed.  ESPECIALLY now that he&#8217;s finally developed into a defender on par with the rest of the starters.  </p>
<p>Unrelated but am I the ONLY one having trouble rationalizing the fact that the Lions are about to be 6-2?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Watson</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91382</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 19:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91382</guid>
		<description>Mike P: here's a &lt;a href="http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/10/23/rebound-margin-means-nothing/" rel="nofollow"&gt;good primer on rebounding rate from Tom Ziller on FanHouse&lt;/a&gt;:

You can tell how well a team is rebounding by looking at their offensive and defensive rebound percentages. For offensive Reb%, you take the team's offensive rebounds divided by the sum of the team's offensive rebounds and the opponent's defensive rebounds. For defensive Reb%, it is the team's defensive rebounds divided by the sum of the team's defensive rebounds and the opponent's offensive rebounds. It's almost as easy as field goal percentage, which we see on a very frequent basis during games.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike P: here&#8217;s a <a href="http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/10/23/rebound-margin-means-nothing/" rel="nofollow">good primer on rebounding rate from Tom Ziller on FanHouse</a>:</p>
<p>You can tell how well a team is rebounding by looking at their offensive and defensive rebound percentages. For offensive Reb%, you take the team&#8217;s offensive rebounds divided by the sum of the team&#8217;s offensive rebounds and the opponent&#8217;s defensive rebounds. For defensive Reb%, it is the team&#8217;s defensive rebounds divided by the sum of the team&#8217;s defensive rebounds and the opponent&#8217;s offensive rebounds. It&#8217;s almost as easy as field goal percentage, which we see on a very frequent basis during games.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Payne</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91362</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Payne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 19:04:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91362</guid>
		<description>Kevin S.- interesting stat.  How did you calculate that?  Simple box score FG margins vs. number of o-rebs?

It'd also be nice to see the number of o-rebs that were converted to baskets...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin S.- interesting stat.  How did you calculate that?  Simple box score FG margins vs. number of o-rebs?</p>
<p>It&#8217;d also be nice to see the number of o-rebs that were converted to baskets&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: kevin s.</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91341</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin s.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91341</guid>
		<description>I would also note that the NUMBER of offensive rebounds is not as important as the PERCENTAGE of misses rebounded.  The Pistons had nine offensive rebounds off 30 missed FG, or 30% while Orlando had 10 offensive rebounds off 46 missed FG, or 22%.  Four of the O-rebounds were by James Augustine in garbage time.  

No, we are not better without Rip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would also note that the NUMBER of offensive rebounds is not as important as the PERCENTAGE of misses rebounded.  The Pistons had nine offensive rebounds off 30 missed FG, or 30% while Orlando had 10 offensive rebounds off 46 missed FG, or 22%.  Four of the O-rebounds were by James Augustine in garbage time.  </p>
<p>No, we are not better without Rip.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt C.</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91340</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91340</guid>
		<description>BA = Blocks Against. It's how many times you got your shot blocked. I had to google it, I wasn't sure either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BA = Blocks Against. It&#8217;s how many times you got your shot blocked. I had to google it, I wasn&#8217;t sure either.</p>
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		<title>By: ohad</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91338</link>
		<dc:creator>ohad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91338</guid>
		<description>doesn't have a lot to do with this story but nba.com stats have a new column for BA. so BS is blocked shots (and spare me the jokes....)
what does BA stand for?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>doesn&#8217;t have a lot to do with this story but nba.com stats have a new column for BA. so BS is blocked shots (and spare me the jokes&#8230;.)<br />
what does BA stand for?</p>
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		<title>By: Diablo</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91334</link>
		<dc:creator>Diablo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91334</guid>
		<description>Ben Q. Rock

If Bogans is their best on ball-defender, than that gives an explanation to the horrible defensive play by the Magic as a team...makes sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben Q. Rock</p>
<p>If Bogans is their best on ball-defender, than that gives an explanation to the horrible defensive play by the Magic as a team&#8230;makes sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Carey Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91270</link>
		<dc:creator>Carey Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 12:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91270</guid>
		<description>LawyerBoy!!!!! What are you talking about? Did you watch the game against Orlando? You are sadly wrong by saying we did not dominate any other facet of the game. Yeah they had one more offensive rebound than us, but we out rebounded them 42 to 34.We did this when many were saying we are soft inside. We had more steals and blks than them. That smells like defense to me. I undestand many of you may not like Flip, but please its getting old. I been a fan of this site since 2005, and every year we talk about the adjustments Flips makes. Lets leave him alone guys we will be fine because we have Joe D. LawyerBoy here are a few things to make you feel better.

1. We won without Rip. Yeah this does not mean much against the Heat, but it means a ton against the Magic. This is a team that added Lewis and has one of the best big men in the game. What did we do we out rebounded them 42 to 34. 

2. We are much deeper than last year. We are getting everything we need from Jarvis Hayes that Mo Evans and Delfino could not over the years. 11pts 6rebs 2stls against the Magic. Flip Murray seems to know his role this year and is playing well.

3. Joe D. We all know if we are not doing well he will make a move. I think however the best moves are always the ones you don't make. Just think if he made the Smith trade for Flip Murray. We all would be sick with Stuckey out for six weeks. 

4. Sheed has no Techs !!!! lol All jokes aside is this a sign that he and Flip have a better relationship or that Joe D put his foot down and showed him how it hurts the team.

5. Tay is playing like an all -star. 


Relax LawyerBoy we will be fine. What I love about this year is that everyone is jocking Boston. Guess what I still think we have the better team. While everyone is focusing on the so called big three our big four will be helping a new guys prepare for another run at the Shipp!!!! Plus I think that Sheed is just as good or better at times than the Big Ticket. Hey I will take Rip over Ray Allen. Tay is almost at the same level as Paul but we all know Tay plays way better D than that cat. Mr. Big Shot is way better than Rondo at PG. Stay cool bro !!!

Carey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LawyerBoy!!!!! What are you talking about? Did you watch the game against Orlando? You are sadly wrong by saying we did not dominate any other facet of the game. Yeah they had one more offensive rebound than us, but we out rebounded them 42 to 34.We did this when many were saying we are soft inside. We had more steals and blks than them. That smells like defense to me. I undestand many of you may not like Flip, but please its getting old. I been a fan of this site since 2005, and every year we talk about the adjustments Flips makes. Lets leave him alone guys we will be fine because we have Joe D. LawyerBoy here are a few things to make you feel better.</p>
<p>1. We won without Rip. Yeah this does not mean much against the Heat, but it means a ton against the Magic. This is a team that added Lewis and has one of the best big men in the game. What did we do we out rebounded them 42 to 34. </p>
<p>2. We are much deeper than last year. We are getting everything we need from Jarvis Hayes that Mo Evans and Delfino could not over the years. 11pts 6rebs 2stls against the Magic. Flip Murray seems to know his role this year and is playing well.</p>
<p>3. Joe D. We all know if we are not doing well he will make a move. I think however the best moves are always the ones you don&#8217;t make. Just think if he made the Smith trade for Flip Murray. We all would be sick with Stuckey out for six weeks. </p>
<p>4. Sheed has no Techs !!!! lol All jokes aside is this a sign that he and Flip have a better relationship or that Joe D put his foot down and showed him how it hurts the team.</p>
<p>5. Tay is playing like an all -star. </p>
<p>Relax LawyerBoy we will be fine. What I love about this year is that everyone is jocking Boston. Guess what I still think we have the better team. While everyone is focusing on the so called big three our big four will be helping a new guys prepare for another run at the Shipp!!!! Plus I think that Sheed is just as good or better at times than the Big Ticket. Hey I will take Rip over Ray Allen. Tay is almost at the same level as Paul but we all know Tay plays way better D than that cat. Mr. Big Shot is way better than Rondo at PG. Stay cool bro !!!</p>
<p>Carey</p>
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		<title>By: joejoejoe</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91262</link>
		<dc:creator>joejoejoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91262</guid>
		<description>LawyerBoy - Rip plays both kinds of ball you describe, lockdown D and efficient offense. Over time (more than 2 games) the team will be far less consistent (meaning less wins) without Rip at SG. Do you think Flip Murray is going to go for 19 pts and 5 ast every night on 57% shooting with only 1 TO every night? Me neither. Congrats Papa Rip!

Come back soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LawyerBoy - Rip plays both kinds of ball you describe, lockdown D and efficient offense. Over time (more than 2 games) the team will be far less consistent (meaning less wins) without Rip at SG. Do you think Flip Murray is going to go for 19 pts and 5 ast every night on 57% shooting with only 1 TO every night? Me neither. Congrats Papa Rip!</p>
<p>Come back soon.</p>
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		<title>By: LawyerBoy</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91250</link>
		<dc:creator>LawyerBoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 10:05:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-11-02/magic-seek-revenge-on-pistons/#comment-91250</guid>
		<description>Okay, I know we thoroughly thrashed the Magic, but allow me to impart some Bill Belichick-esque overly picky criticism.  On Thursday we slowed down Miami, frustrated them offensively and managed to win despite shooting under 40% and actually shooting worse than our opponent.  The reason for this is that we dominated EVERYTHING else regarding statistical categories and ensured that poorer shooting than our opponent wouldn't cost us the game.  

Against Orlando, we torched the net off the hoop, but we really didn't dominate any other facet of the game.  We had more turnovers than them and less offensive rebounds.  If we don't shoot an INSANE 59% from the field, we don't produce a blow out.  I really felt perplexed juxtaposing the offensive rhythm of the two games.  

In game one, we slowed it down, played excellent defense and won the game using the type of strategy the 03-04 Pistons would've imparted.    I half expeced to see LB and/or Ben out there when I was watching the season opener.  Our victory on Friday seemed textbook Flip Saunders, extremely fruitful offense at the cost of extremely strong defense.  I'm not saying this team can't win doing it Flip's way, it has before (especially in the regular season), and clearly it did in this game.  But when I think of Flip failing to make adjustments, this isn't the type of "adjustment" that satisfies me.  To me, it looked like we got sucked into Orlando's penchant for uptempo basketball, we just destroyed them at their own game.  Anyone care to add their perspective and/or reassure my fears as a result of game 2?

Also, is it possible (it tears me up inside to even suggest this), this team is better without Rip Hamilton?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I know we thoroughly thrashed the Magic, but allow me to impart some Bill Belichick-esque overly picky criticism.  On Thursday we slowed down Miami, frustrated them offensively and managed to win despite shooting under 40% and actually shooting worse than our opponent.  The reason for this is that we dominated EVERYTHING else regarding statistical categories and ensured that poorer shooting than our opponent wouldn&#8217;t cost us the game.  </p>
<p>Against Orlando, we torched the net off the hoop, but we really didn&#8217;t dominate any other facet of the game.  We had more turnovers than them and less offensive rebounds.  If we don&#8217;t shoot an INSANE 59% from the field, we don&#8217;t produce a blow out.  I really felt perplexed juxtaposing the offensive rhythm of the two games.  </p>
<p>In game one, we slowed it down, played excellent defense and won the game using the type of strategy the 03-04 Pistons would&#8217;ve imparted.    I half expeced to see LB and/or Ben out there when I was watching the season opener.  Our victory on Friday seemed textbook Flip Saunders, extremely fruitful offense at the cost of extremely strong defense.  I&#8217;m not saying this team can&#8217;t win doing it Flip&#8217;s way, it has before (especially in the regular season), and clearly it did in this game.  But when I think of Flip failing to make adjustments, this isn&#8217;t the type of &#8220;adjustment&#8221; that satisfies me.  To me, it looked like we got sucked into Orlando&#8217;s penchant for uptempo basketball, we just destroyed them at their own game.  Anyone care to add their perspective and/or reassure my fears as a result of game 2?</p>
<p>Also, is it possible (it tears me up inside to even suggest this), this team is better without Rip Hamilton?</p>
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