Running late, not time for a proper preview, but the Grizzlies are at the Palace. Check out my thoughts at HOOPSWORLD, and of course, leave your thoughts in the comments.
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Oh yes. Flip said Stuckey WILL play tonight. Yes.
They just said Saunders was going to give Stuckey a few minutes tonight.
Sweet, I was hoping we’d get a game thread so I could chat with all the other degenerates like me who are sitting online watching a Pistons game on the first night of Christmas break.
Would it be right to say that Afflalo has been giving us more than we could have ever expected at this point? If Stuckey is half as good as we all hope he’s gonna be, that could be a very good back-court for years to come.
I think Afflalo is going to turn it up a little knowing he is going to have to battle for minutes with Stuckey now. I been liking his play the last few games.
Hey! I’m no degenerate. More of a shut-in.
We got Amir in there 2 minutes into the 2nd.
Sorry, Rob, no offense intended.
We seem to have been totally asleep since we took that 19-10 lead. Although, I’ve been juggling watching the game and cooking dinner since then.
Links…?
33 All at half? What is this crap Miami vs the Knicks!
This is the site he uses for the game links I think. http://forum.myp2p.eu/ Thats had to be one of the worse dunk misses I ever seen.
Rudy Gay seems to be good for one missed dunk per game. Is there a stat for that?
Yeah, that Rudy Gay missed dunk was pretty embarrassing. At least when our guy misses a dunk, it goes 78 feet in the air because he hit the back rim so hard.
Hate to say, but this game is pretty boring.
it. forgot the word “it.” You know, some blogs let you edit your mistakes…
Hahaha, Dear ESPN……… I hate you.
Seriously I’ve been stuck here at work checking the box scores off and on and it’s officially gone completely insane… at one point it was reading 33 All at the half… now it says Detroit scored 21 points in the 2nd quarter for 42 and is currently leading by 7, 54-47….
Does anyone know the actual score before ESPN makes my head explode?
Agreed Rob, I could sure use edit. Anyone see Nazrs’ stats for tonights game against the Knicks? 20 points in 28 minutes with 8 for 11 shooting, 14 rebounds, 4 blocked shots and 2 steals. He’s flourishing there with a more prominent role.
54-49
i love watching a pistons game but.. this is sorta zzzzzzz… maybe after boston its a little difficult to be riled for memphis. plus the team seems to be just fooling around, maintaining a lead and not sweating it too much about taking a quick shot or mistakes-having fun basically!
It’s not just the PT imho. The Bobcats don’t play the same kind of high pressure defence we do. He isn’t being asked to make help defence plays in the paint that his feet just aren’t capable of….
Good on Nazr, I hope he gets back on track……I can tell you that if he puts up 20 and 10+ a night for the Cats, they’ll GLADLY pay him the 6 a year and change we didn’t want to keep giving him.
Also thanks Matt. That stupid ticker tracker thing had me convinced I was watching girls college basketball with that halftime score.
that play was beautiful! go maxiell!
How was there not a foul call there?
PistonsGirl, I just want to respond to the Webber conversation from the previous thread (which I assume is dead with the game going on). I understand where you’re coming from with the “it’s about getting another starting 5 if ‘Sheed goes down.” I personally don’t see a role for Webber other than spot minutes off the bench. I was addressing what I see his role to be, not what you were talking about. That’s my bad.
Anyway, I agree with what you’re saying that he was effective in the regular season. He was also effective at the beginning of the playoffs. But he was such a clear liability against Ilgauskas, that I just don’t see how he fits in. I’m a little too lazy to look it up, but I’d be shocked if his minutes per game for the end of the Chicago series and the entire Cleveland series weren’t somewhere around 15-20. His minutes got cut because he was a total liability in both series.
If ‘Sheed goes down, we’re not winning crap in the playoffs with or without Webb. I’d much rather see us playing the young guys than playing Webb. What’s the point if we’re not going to win it all? If we’re in that situation, we might as well start trying to build for the future, and Webb is a direct hurdle in doing so.
Anyway, carry on with the game thread. Hey! It’s Dontrelle! LETS GO TIGERS! *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* LETS GO TIGERS. Sorry.
Haha, second missed dunk. Ouch…
Also, sorry about the Ilgauskas comment, if memory serves, Webber guarded Drew Gooden and not Ilgauskas. I’ve tried to block out as much of that series as possible.
Rudy Gay… dude, what was that?
The second one might of been even worse than the first missed dunk, that has to burn.
gay needs to learn how to dunk!
Then to add salt to the wound he gets called for hanging on the rim to get his rebound….Then gets a foul called on him seconds later at the other end of the court.
Arron Afflalo! THAT was nice. He’s having himself a game.
Afflalo again! Great dish! I am very excited about the way he’s playing.
Afflalo is schooling the Grizzlies by himself.
PG4L, try cbs.sportsline.com. They always seem more up to date than the other sites.
By the way, the cbs glog says that Rudy Gay has missed 4 straight dunks against the Pistons.
Is Stuckey dressed? Looks like they can get him some minutes.
PistonsGirl, I’ve had success with the NBA.com box scores in the past. They seem to be a shade faster than anywhere else, but sportsline, yahoo, and SI.com all have better updating box scores than ESPN.
QuickDarshan, I’m wondering when they’re gonna get Stuckey in, too.
Stuckey is about to check in.
Quick, everybody get ready to micro-analyze his every move!
Haha, Stuckey with 2 points and rebound in like 10 seconds.
Afflalo has been looking hungry as can be all game.
They just named Afflalo player of the game.
Agreed, Matt. I know it’s only one game, but tonight is very reminiscent of the type of play we got from Mike James off the bench in the title year.
i go by pinon cause theres so many matts here one more wouldn’t help.
I enjoyed watching the end of the game most-the fast jittery way the young players are is fun. They added ~12 or so points to the lead too. Not Memphis’s night at all.
Guys, thanks, I’ll keep that in mind. Usually I find SOMEPLACE to watch the game, but every 10 games or so I end up stuck at work and have to just watch the updates scroll by.
Other Matt, and that’s what I mean by I don’t think we even have a discussion here. We disagree strongly on where Webber’s talents lie. I think he’s the last available starting calibre 5 in the NBA who doesn’t have a contract. You think he’s a fat guy who’s wheels finally came off vs Cle. No room to debate there I’m afraid.
Honestly though I don’t think it’s fair to lay the CLE series at Webber’s feet like that… We didn’t get beat by Cleveland’s more athletic/bigger/frankly better frontcourt. We got beat because they A) outplayed us on defence, B) Flip Saunder’s made IMHO all the wrong adjustments and NEVER did anything to prevent the series from sliding out of Detroit’s hands when it was CLEAR even up 2-0 that Cleveland had more jump than us, C) Lebron went off and finally D) Boobie Gibson somehow managed to draw a foul every 2nd time he touched the ball.
Noplace in the above do I see “Chris Webber failed to prevent Gooden/Illgauskas/Marshall/Sideshow Bob from scoring 20 a night and hauling down 10 rebounds”……
great game by Afflalo, he deserves to be on the rookie team at the break… perhaps Stuckey can make an impact too.
Also I hate to sound like a Yankee fan here but as for tonight?
Expected result. Please don’t let such a bad team make it so interesting next time.
Yes yes ya’ll. I told you ’bout Afflalo!
Just for the record, double doubles this season:
Nazr Mohammed - 1
Kendrick Perkins - 0
I really wish I hadn’t fallen asleep when it was 19-10, but I suppose I quite needed the nap. I feel in a way as though I’ve betrayed Rodney for not seeing his first regular season minutes; I wish League Pass showed replays.
Haha to Flip Murray for not getting to dress when Hunter did, if it were last week I would’ve included Afflalo on that note w/Hunter, but count me in as another who he’s making a believer out of.
I wonder who will have a better FT% at the end of the year, Afflalo or Chauncey? Afflalo is 24-26 (92.3%) and Chauncey is 151-156 (91.0%). Afflalo an 80% free throw shooter at UCLA while Billups shot 85% at Colorado. I’m looking at Chauncey’s stats from college and he’s just got so much better handling the basketball and making decisions. His assist/TO ratio as a pro is 2.67/1 but was only 1.37/1 in college. Chauncey is a pro’s pro - he works on his game and improves every year.
Can we get a talley up in here?
For Webber: Me, PG4L, LawyerBoy, Kevin S., Rob G., and…?
Against Webber: Quick Darshan, Other Matt, Mike Payne, Jason, Kyle, and…?
Only 2 weeks until our 2nd of 3 Boston games.
Garrett,
Even the “For Webber” camp is split on their reasons why (the Against camp may be as well, I just honestly haven’t been paying that much attention) so that “tally” is slightly misleading in grouping all those people together who really have differing opinions themselves. I mean, I’d probably be in the “Against Webber” camp if I felt his addition to the team would result in him getting anything more than Jalen Rose got in terms of minutes from the Suns last year or if I felt he’d disrupt our chemistry.
LawyerBoy: Damn, I was all ready to get us some 8-ball jackets so we could officially form a posse.
I’m against Webber.
And stuckey now has a career high of 2 points.
You know you want one.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/174/387151919_388495b088.jpg
Garrett: Haha, carry on with that idea. I’d still wear the 8-ball jacket proudly since it’s such a good idea. You can photograph me in it at my wedding.
Slightly on the Webber topic but slightly not, I just want to state that the Primoz Brezec of 2003-2005 was a very capable NBA player for the Charlotte Bobcats. Having watched him in spot dude before that on the Pacers I’d always wondered about the guy so I’d followed him for a while. Would that style work in Detroit and/or is that Primoz Brezec the same guy as the tall dude who unabashedly sports the blue headband these days? I don’t know, but I wouldn’t just write the guy off unequivocally.
*spot duty … man, I may need ANOTHER nap.
OT: Don’t look now, but the Magic have lost 3 of 4 including a recent home loss to the easily-dispatched-by-us-tonight Grizz … With the recently uber-struggling Utah Jazz, so graciously pointed out to us as such by our leader Matt Watson, guilty of putting the boots to them tonight.
This begs the question, are the Magic just perennial hot starters who haven’t really improved all that much? They’re 18-10 now and they were 17-11 through 28 games last year (as good as 13-4 at one point last year, and they were 14-4 at the end of November). Just thought I’d raise the point since I appreciated Matt raising the point of the Jazz’s recent under-the-radar struggles.
I’m for C.Webb, spot minutes would be the ideal situation for him.
also on a slightly smaller note, I think that Afflalo guy is a keeper…
Chris Webber: It’s over. ENOUGH already.
How did the Grizzlies make this even close to interesting?
PG4L, yes. Every point you made was valid about the Cleveland series. But you’re pretending like Webber not being able to stop Ilgauskas/Gooden/Whatever other crap bag they were playing wasn’t a MAJOR factor in that series, and to do so is wearing the Webber tinted glasses, so to speak. Those games were all close (game 6 excepted), and a couple of stops here or there or not letting Gooden get rolling would have definitely had a positive effect for the Pistons. Could more playing time for Max have made a difference, I think so. But that comes at the expense of Webber’s minutes, so why again are we debating the merits of him coming back?
I think he could be useful in a spot role. I have serious doubts about his ability to accept said spot role. I don’t think he has any value to us as a starter (even in the event of a Sheed or Dyess injury) because it would make more sense for the future of the franchise to play Max, Amir, Samb, Brezec and let those guys show what they have and develop.
One other nitpick: how can you say “please don’t let such a bad team make it so interesting next time”? We blew them out in the second half. We stepped on their throats and took that game away. Bench guys got significant minutes! Everybody played very well in the second half. I’m very confused by that statement.
(Sorry, I don’t mean to go head-to-head with you. I’m honestly just trying to have good basketball conversation.)
OT: I found this fun site that translates your name if you were a Brazilian soccer player (I’m a big soccer fan) so I wasted 5 minutes translating the Detroit Bad Boys into Portugese. Here’s your team:
1 - Chaunceto
3 - Stucka
5 - Herrmao
6 - Foson Quarta Slaughtico (actually Murrundo)
7 - Brezson
9 - Jarvito
10 - Huntisco
22 - Tayshaaldo
25 - Johnsa
28 - Afflalao
32 - Rinhosa (Rip) or Claudio Hamiltmar (Richard)
35 - Cheildo
36 - Wallacardo Pau
54 - Maxiisco
Coach: Saundaca
GM: Dumito
Pele’s given name was Edison Arantes do Nascimento.
6 - Foson Quarta Slaughtico - Haha, I LOVE IT!
LB, we’re talking about a man who couldn’t pull down boards next to Emeka Okaford….. No really re-read that sentance and go look at Nazr’s stats w/ the Cats.
Bad day for the Darko defenders on this board.
Another argument for Webber… If he signs with us, he won’t sign for an Eastern Conference opponent. A team like the Bulls or Celtics would find he plugs a gaping hole.
As for Spellcheck, he is starting to step out from the woodwork, with very positive results. His strong foul shooting will generate major dividends if he can keep up the strong rebounding.
As for the Magic, they are better than they were a year ago. There is no particular reason to correlate this season with last, given the wholesale lineup changes they made in the offseason.
In both instances, they got off to hot starts, only to come back to Earth. This year, “Earth” is probably good enough for 46-48 wins and a three seed, even with that egregious starting backcourt.
Hey, it’s all good man. Disagreeing/discussing is the soul of the whole blogging experience and I’m not going to take it personal just because you think I’m wrong. GENERALLY when I go “pit bull” during internet conversations is when I think someone is ignoring OBVIOUS facts or even outright making crap up to support their arguements. It somehow irritates my internal sense of “justice”. Plus I guess sometimes I get irritated with casual fans who make wild proclaimations without having the knowledge to appreciate the plays they see infront of them. For example “OMFG Kobe! KOBE KOBE!” right after Bryant tries a desperation heave over 3 dudes and it goes in….
Most of the people who post here and DEFINATELY all of the regulars aren’t really like that, so it’d be pretty hard to offend me.
That having been said I’m still not understanding how we have room to discuss here. You keep saying Webber isn’t good enough to save the season even if Sheed/Dyees go down so we should play the kids. I keep saying Webber IS good enough to save the season if Sheed/Dyees goes down so we should keep his number handy and try to sign him if A) Sheed/Dyees get hurt, B) The trade deadline arrives or C) Someone else tries to sign him for roughly what we’d be willing to pay or less (not alot btw). We are at an impass.
In refference to the Cle series, again I think your being incredibly unfair RE: Webber’s level of responsibility for that loss. I’ve explained why I think we’ve lost. You’ve essentially said “but we might have won if Chris Webber was someone better”… that statement works for every single person in a Piston’s uniform last spring AND Flip Saunders. I mean we also MIGHT have won if Lindsey Hunter was 25 again but I’m lost as to how that’s relevant either.
As for the “Please try”, yeah you are right. Looking back at the game as a whole we beat them like rented mules… I just took the whole “coasting through the second quarter” nonsense a little hard. My bad, it was definately a solid win… anytime you hold someone under 70 points it pretty much HAS to be right?
Here’s how you bring CWebb back:
Trade Brezec, Hermann and Flip’s expiring contracts to Minnesota for Juwan Howard.
Then sign Webber for less than he was making at Michigan (Ha! I laugh cause it hurts. I have faith in you Beilien).
Then sign Jalen.
Alternative plan:
Trade the same three expiring contracts for Darko.
By the way, I finally realized what “OT” stands for. For the longest time, I’m like “overtime?” “On the other hand?”
Of course, I’m also the same person who thought “lol” meant “lots of love.”
PG4L: Brezec’s offense in those seasons was solid. And yeah, he’s not a particularly great rebounder, but I would argue that he’s passable and that’s all right. Also, you make it out to be like the guy actually PLAYED with Okafor. Okafor got hurt in his rookie season and barely played, and in the following season he took most of what had been Brezec’s minutes.
Kevin: Bad day for Darko defenders? Of course. If you’re going to make a longterm projection based on one bad game or a few minutes here and there, I’m going to have to start calling you Bill W. (as in Walton) instead of Kevin S. If you’re only talking about tonight’s performance alone then fair game, but I have a sneaking suspicion you’re trying to lay the foundation for a more longstanding argument. If that’s the case, then to paraphrase Big Red, slow it down big man.
QD: You were kidding, right? If so, that was pretty damn funny. God I miss the Fab Five. Do you know they used to scream “Let your nuts hang!” in their pregame huddle? I have no idea what they meant, (perhaps, chill we got this, or show the other squad who we are) but I know solid gold when I hear it. Your humor doesn’t go unappreciated, and so I bestow a +1 for humor to you, sir.
joe3- wow some of those names are awesome. I will now call tayshaun Tayshaaldo!!
Im comfident Tayshaaldo’s scoring avg will now increase exponentially against elite SFs. No more 1-10s for Tayshaaldo.
err confident
I really liked seeing Stuckey push the ball up the court and not really looking hesitant/lost at all. Course he was playing garbage minutes…but im really excited to see him play some meaningful minutes. Im sure it helped that he could run through practices even if he couldnt do any contact stuff.
PG4L,
I was kind of bothered by the fact that 2 people who probably have watched 90% of Piston games over the past few years could have viewpoints so opposite each other on this Webber thing. So, I looked up the numbers. It appears that I owe you an apology, as the numbers back up your argument.
Here’s what I found:
My assertion that Webber’s minutes per game dropped off in the last 2 series was incorrect. For the season Webber averaged 29.7 minutes, the Orlando series 30.5 minutes, the Chicago series 22.5 minutes, and the Cleveland series 24.5 minutes. I was right that his minutes got clipped in the last 2 series, but not nearly to the extent I had thought.
I also looked at Ilgauskas and Gooden’s stat lines for the season and then the East Finals. Gooden’s line turned out to be slightly worse than his season averages, Ilgauskas’ slightly better (this was due to a 5 minute per game increase, his 40 minute averages were slightly worse than his season 40 minute averages).
Thus, my assertion that Webber’s minutes were severely cut was wrong. My assertion that Webber got torched by Ilgauskas and Gooden, also wrong.
I’ve tried to block the whole Cleveland series out of my mind, but my general thought process was “grumble grumble Chauncey can’t hit a big shot grumble grumble Webber sucks grumble grumble why is Gooden killing us grumble grumble fire Flip”.
—————————–
As for how Webber might fit in to this year’s team. Well, his numbers have been replaced entirely by Maxiell. Their 40 minute averages are pretty close. The differences are in TO (advantage Max), blocks (2 more for Max), steals (one more for Webber), assists (3.5 more for Webber), and rebounds (1.5 more for Max). Maxiell is also taking and making 2 more free throws per game than Webber was. Maxiell has been more efficient, scoring the same number of points on 3 less shots per 40 minutes, as well.
I would assume we’re getting more production out of minutes Webber would have played because of Maxiell’s increased production and McDyess’s increased minutes (9 more per game over last season, a quick scan of his stat line shows a consistent increase in production, his 40 minute averages have probably not changed much, I’m too lazy to do any more spreadsheet work at 3am).
Anyway, take it all for what it’s worth. I’ll retract and say that Webber does appear to have more value than I thought, although I’d still prefer we don’t bring him back because I’m worried he’d cut into Maxiell’s minutes. I also worry about him on D.
I should also note that my concerns about him on D are of the “how fast can he move and rotate” variety, but that discussion was had last year. I do like Webber, I just feel like we have a good thing going right now and I don’t really want to fix what’s un-broken.
First thing I thought when I saw the score was WOW only 67 points for Memphis! We must have been beastly on D.. am I right?
Great to see Stuckey get some minutes but not too many because of his hand..
Also, I’m really pleased for Nazr that he’s doing well in his new starting role at Charlotte.. The trade was really a win-win for both teams IMO as they get a new solid starter and we get rid of his large contract and get two expendable players.. I can see another deal coming and possibly in a 3 player package involving Murray, Brezec and Hermann..
Aren’t there a few teams that need a PG… like Miami!!! Send Flip there!!! It’ll be the cherry on top of their pile of doo-doo.
… then pick up Webber. Use Brezec against bigger backups and CW against smaller backups.
joe cubed: I too am a big soccer fan. I love the jokey name translations. Do you have a link for the site?
link was under his name
http://www.minimalsworld.net/BrazilName/brazilian.shtml
I spent like an hour on it last night.
Good call Fel, thanks for the heads up! I’m off to go play around on it myself.
A lot of the arguments FOR Webber include his skills as a passer inside. Some who didn’t mention that overtly did refer to his APG stat, as brought up by Other Matt in comparison against Maxiell.
Forgive me if anyone has already mentioned this, but we’re also forgetting one important issue: remember what happened to Chauncey’s numbers after Webber came in? Chauncey’s performance dipped when Webber joined the team.
Chauncey was having a difficult time tweaking his offensive management with Webber on the floor. Before Webber, Chauncey averaged 8.14 assists per game. After Webber, Chauncey averaged 6.52 assists per game. Where the offense initially ran through Chauncey’s hands, sharing the load diminished the performance of our team. Sure, we got a handful of W’s, but we were forced to change our team’s offensive focus. Look how that turned out in the POST-SEASON.
Personally, I believe this APG stat should be ignored entirely when valuing Webber for the current Pistons squad. When he was a roleplayer/starter, he shook up our offensive focus. Presently, we don’t need his passing skills. We need a spark off the bench, rebounding, blocks, defense and interior offense. In short, we need Maxiell.
Webber WILL eat into Maxiell’s game. If he doesn’t, he will be a liability in the locker room. You think Webber would sit back and humbly allow Maxiell to soak up 24 minutes per game?
Our fourth big man off the bench, be that Brezec or Amir (or even Herrmann)– who are they really going to have to cover on the opposing team’s bench? Noah/Gray in Chicago? Perkins/Davis in Boston? Bargnani in Toronto? Who would you rather have– 28 year old, 7′1, 252lb. Brezec; or 34 year old, 6′10, 245lb Webber with his amazing athletic dexterity and magical knees.
I am staunchly against Webber on THIS Pistons team. An insurance policy, perhaps. But if we lose Wallace to injury, we don’t win a championship. You can spend your money on insurance, I’ll save mine for free agents in the offseason.
speaking of former Pistons: When did Grant Hill play for the Suns in ‘97?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3MNU8-_Kiw8
That facial took me way back-in-the-day..lol
“Kevin: Bad day for Darko defenders?”
Bad season (and, really, bad career) as well. That game was just shy of typical. He has been horrendous by any objective measure of the word.
“And yeah, he’s not a particularly great rebounder, but I would argue that he’s passable and that’s all right.”
He is one of the very worst at his position, and commits a lot of fouls while attempting to rebound. What constitutes passable?
As for Webber, if he isn’t starting, we don’t have to re-orient the focus of the offense around him. We plug him in to get the bench going. If he can play at 85-90% of last year’s clip, he adds talent to the rotation. That is infrequently a bad idea, and I haven’t heard an argument as to why he shouldn’t be added to the bench.
Kevin s. (re: “I haven’t heard an argument as to why he shouldn’t be added to the bench.”):
“Presently, [our bench doesn’t] need his passing skills. We need a spark off the bench, rebounding, blocks, defense and interior offense. In short, we need Maxiell.”
I’d argue that when developed, and should he continue at this pace, Amir Johnson could provide the above at 65% of what Maxiell offers this very season.
“Our fourth big man off the bench, be that Brezec or Amir (or even Herrmann)– who are they really going to have to cover on the opposing team’s bench? Noah/Gray in Chicago? Perkins/Davis in Boston? Bargnani in Toronto? Who would you rather have– 28 year old, 7′1, 252lb. Brezec; or 34 year old, 6′10, 245lb Webber with his amazing athletic dexterity and magical knees.”
I would rather develop Brezec as a defensive backup 5 in case we end up facing Shaq, Yao, or Howard in the post-season.
The method behind my madness: what I love about the Detroit team as it stands now– the squad we have RIGHT NOW is good enough to come out of the East and compete for a championship. Additionally, we are growing, we are developing the youth of our team to maintain a competitive edge in seasons to come. Bring in Webber, we add a touch of talent- but we lose out on this youth development we’re cultivating.
Taking a step back, I ask you– Kevin S., and others. What is the greatest development the Pistons have made this season? I say it is the development of youth, and the hunger it has brought to a team with a problem with complacency. You cannot argue that Webber would hamper the development of our youth. With Joe’s plan as it is now, we can have our cake and eat it to…
…as long as that doesn’t involve Webber.
and by that I mean:
“You cannot argue that Webber would NOT hamper the development of our youth.”
Clearly nobody reads a thing I write so I’m just going to say three things:
A) Merry Christmas
B) The Pistons would be wise to keep C Webber’s number incase Sheed/Dyees gets hurt. I never said ANYTHING about “bacukups”, “spot mins”, “taking time from Maxiel”. You sign him if/when you need a starting 5. Thanks for actually reading kids instead of just making up a straw man arguement you can take appart easily with nonsense about “hurting Maxy’s development”.
C) Done with this useless thread
PG4L, you’ve been read and re-read. I still disagree. Here’s me:
“But if we lose Wallace to injury, we don’t win a championship. You can spend your money on insurance, I’ll save mine for free agents in the offseason.”
Dyess gets injured, on the other hand, and I agree.
As for– “Thanks for actually reading kids instead of just making up a straw man arguement you can take appart easily with nonsense about “hurting Maxy’s development”
It ain’t nonsense, friend. Webber would hurt the development of our young bigs.
I agree 100000% with Mike Payne. Who’s saying what I’ve been trying to say. I agree that if Dyess gets hurt, then it might be wise to bring in Webber because that allows the bench to stay in tact, which has absolutely been one of our strengths this year.
PG4L, I don’t understand how you can say people are “making up straw man arguments”, I simply stated my case. Then I re-evaluated my position based on what you said. It turned out that I was wrong about how big of a liability Webber was in the playoffs. I admitted that he does have value as a starter. I was saying that if Sheed gets hurt, we’re screwed anyway, so we might as well develop the kids because that’s the only way we’re going to be contenders when our current window closes (and that day is probably 2 seasons away yet).
Anyway, I’ll shut up about this already.
Merry Christmas everybody!
and I repeat for the LAST damn time:
I can PROVE Webber is a starting 5. Know how? He was the starting 5 on a 50+ Win team that came within 2 wins of a damn finals.
You guys on the other side? “He sucked in Cleveland”….
Honestly I think the LOT of you are ABSOLUTELY nuts.
As for the straw man arguement, well you keep saying he’ll Take Maxy’s time and I keep saying “no he won’t, he’s only an option if we need 25-30 mins of starting 5, he makes ZERO sense as a backup in the traditional sense of the word.
Again though I’m tired of argueing subjective bullsh*t with people who CLEARLY just don’t like Webber.
What my opinion? The lot of you are so sick of what happened in the ECF that your looking for someone to blame. You can’t blame someone who’s actually really GOOD (see Tay, who had like his 6 worst games as a PRO vs Cle btw)…. so you blame Webber.
I’m REALLY glad none of you clowns are the GM for Detroit when you say shit like “We’re screwed if Sheed goes down so we should dump the season in that case and start Amir more”…
Stupid, stupid, stupid
Did someone say Christmas? You can’t have Christmas without this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pKqFg7Tuocg
yo normally the boards here are so free of conflict. lets let it be.
be good to each other-everyone here shares more in common than they have differences so just chill on that.
None of us is going to influence choices made on the pistons basketball team-and all of us are going to continue to be pistons fans whether we agree with choices or not-and we’ll enjoy seeing our favorite players play, and people we don’t like we’ll deal with if they’re on the team.
its lousy seeing the pistons fans fightin’ with each other. thats not like our team! maybe if we were lakers fans
Look, regarding my last post…. I don’t think I intend it to sound as dismissive as it does. I personally feel its VERY obvious that Webber would give our team a shot at winning the ECF, though yes we’d invariably be the underdog in said finals with him starting at the 5. Otoh the Cardinals weren’t supposed to take more than one game off the Tigers in that WS and look how that worked out. Any time you CAN take a shot at winning a title, even if you aren’t the favorite, you have to. It’s why making the 8th seed and getting swept is BETTER than being in the bottom half of the lottery. Seriously though, to me, based on what I’ve seen both last year AND this year, these facts are self evident. In fact they are SOOOO self evident that I’m finding myself both annoyed and mystified that I keep having to repeat them to people who supposedly saw all the same games I did.
Either way, I think you (and by you I mean everyone in the “Dear Christ Not Webber he Ruined My Offseason” Camp) are wrong… I don’t think you are stupid. My bad for saying otherwise. Sorry.
Yes, PG4L, I think this is one condition where our proverbial “camps” should just agree to disagree. I feel that Webber will hurt our youth development, even as the 4th man off the bench. I will agree that he could backup McDyess should he see an injury. Again, agree to disagree. Although I love the idea of each camp getting jerseys and having a wicked snowball fight. Winner gets to tell Joe what to do about C Webb.
I don’t hate Webber. In fact, Webber is pretty low on my “totem of blame” for what happened in the playoffs. There are several players and a coach who are higher on my blame list than Webber. But I’ve forgiven them all. Why?
1. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/standings;_ylt=AthL0z4VNvzkkwzr2W4NHAy8vLYF
2. Bench development.
3. Don’t have a third point. Just thought a list of three would look better
Well, I think we can all agree that Joe Dumars has built an incredibly deep 15-man roster.
With Dupree gone, Samb is pretty much our 15th man. And he proved that in an emergency, he can be thrown into a game for a few minutes and affect a game.
The interesting thing to come out of this Webber debate is that it appears that Sheed is considered the most indispensible Piston.
I would assume Chauncey would be close behind, with Tay and Rip having backups more capable of filling in.
To those who seen the last few games… Has Sheed become low-post phobic again? From the box scores and online game tracking, I got the sense that he’s just hanging around the 3pt line again (albeit, while still playing good defense).
PG4L: “I personally feel its VERY obvious that Webber would give our team a shot at winning the ECF, though yes we’d invariably be the underdog in said finals with him starting at the 5.”
So you’re saying the team, as currently composed, does NOT have a shot at winning the Eastern Conference Finals? Because I have to vehemently disagree.
That’s not what I’m saying at all. As currently comprised the team has only one player capable of playing 30+ mins as a starting 5 at the level necissary to win an ECF series (that would be Sheed). If Sheed were to get hurt, we’d be left with a broken shell of a team that would likely be eliminated in the playoffs long before the ECF. It’s probably the one REAL concern I have with the Piston’s roster now that it’s been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Lindsey DOES have something left to contribute as a defence first/disruptor PG….
Presumably you can do the math from there as to how this relates to Chris Webber since I have ZERO desire to repeat myself for the 20th some odd time in this thread/on this subject.
I’m going to skip re-asserting my Webber claims, because I’m bored with that. I am going to take exception to what Kevin S., apparently this blog’s answer to Bill Walton in terms of Darko’s development, had to say about the former Human Victory Cigar.
Kevin S: It seems to me as if you don’t pay attention to Darko outside of playing for/against the Pistons or on nationally televised games (ie: one so far on NBA TV this year against the Sonics where he didn’t play due to injury). I’m wondering if you have League Pass and/or watch many Grizzlies games or if you’re simply drawing conclusion from box scores. I’m going to guess that you probably weren’t watching when he owned us in the first quarter of the game we played in Memphis or you took nothing from it. What I took from it, is the guy has some downright NASTY offense that most bigs in this league would kill for. It comes in spurts because it’s fairly apparent he’s a mental midget and/or lacks consistency. If he can put it together, with his sometimes nasty defense in the paint, he’s got serious game. I fully admit that’s an if, a remains to be seen, but his career is far from over at this stage and to deem otherwise, is premature in nature.
He’s only 22, which can be easily forgotten since this is his 5th season in the league. That’s only a year older than much-dapped-about rookie Sean Williams. I hate to use the tired comparison to JO, as Milicic has a long way to go to prove it on that scale, but to a rational extent, it applies. Give the kid some time to mature mentally and show (or fail to show) consistent play in a consistent environment. Writing off a career at 22 and/or after five years is stupid. Chauncey, JO, etc. prove that.
Let’s give Darko the fresh start he wanted in Memphis and see how he develops under Iavaroni. He seemed to be having a very impressive swing in November until he got hurt and missed seven games. Darko’s younger than me for chrissake, let’s preach patience and not rush to judgment like Big Red would.
And why you’re hating on my idea that Brezec’s passable in terms of rebounding I don’t know. Perhaps you got confused and thought I was talking about Darko in which case you have a partially accurate (though conveyed through hyperbole) point about Darko being a liability in terms of fouling. Fouling is a concern for Darko, but it’s not like it’s an achilles heel. Either way, Brezec (and Darko for that matter) is passable when it comes to rebounding.
I have a feeling that that is exactly what Joe D. saw vis a vis Darko: that he had game, even as a kid. What Joe D. hoped, I’m sure, was that his mental game would improve as he got older, that he’d get more consistent, that he’d learn, that he wouldn’t keep acting like an 18-year-old kid. But that didn’t work out. Darko remained Darko. And remains Darko.