Comments on: Amir Johnson’s minutes are tied to fouls http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/ A Detroit Pistons blog Fri, 29 Aug 2008 01:50:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Empty the Bench - Fantasy Sports, Fantasy Football, Fantasy Basketball, NFL, NBA http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-123036 Empty the Bench - Fantasy Sports, Fantasy Football, Fantasy Basketball, NFL, NBA Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:05:09 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-123036 [...] We’re not the only ones who’ve cried out for it to happen, and at long last it seems the Pistons’ Powers That [...] […] We’re not the only ones who’ve cried out for it to happen, and at long last it seems the Pistons’ Powers That […]

]]> By: Kyle http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119615 Kyle Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:29:24 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119615 LanierFan, I agree with you absolutely. sheed is great, but everyone can see how much potential he's wasted. with the skills he has he should be way better than duncan, but he's not, and he probably never will be. everyone goes on about sheed's bb iq, but he has made some monumentally stupid mistakes over the years and is constantly making himself look like a head case. duncan, in my experience, doesn't have either of these problems. as much as i love sheed's passion, i'd take duncan's icy veins and always smart play any day. LanierFan,
I agree with you absolutely. sheed is great, but everyone can see how much potential he’s wasted. with the skills he has he should be way better than duncan, but he’s not, and he probably never will be. everyone goes on about sheed’s bb iq, but he has made some monumentally stupid mistakes over the years and is constantly making himself look like a head case. duncan, in my experience, doesn’t have either of these problems. as much as i love sheed’s passion, i’d take duncan’s icy veins and always smart play any day.

]]> By: LanierFan http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119609 LanierFan Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:05:18 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119609 It depends on definitions and what you like. Sheed has the talent to be an all-time great at the 4, but so did Derrick Coleman. So did George Macinnis. I wouldn't rank Sheed as highly as Tim Duncan, Bob Pettit, Karl Malone, Elvin Hayes, Kevin Garnett or Charles Barkley. All consistently produced big numbers for a long time, taking on the main-man responsibilities that Sheed avoids. Then you've got guys like McHale, Jerry Lucas, Gus Johnson, Debusschere, even real old-timers like Dolph Schayes. I'd put Sheed near that second tier, which is still an incredible achievement. But you can't take nights off and make Top 5. It depends on definitions and what you like. Sheed has the talent to be an all-time great at the 4, but so did Derrick Coleman. So did George Macinnis.

I wouldn’t rank Sheed as highly as Tim Duncan, Bob Pettit, Karl Malone, Elvin Hayes, Kevin Garnett or Charles Barkley. All consistently produced big numbers for a long time, taking on the main-man responsibilities that Sheed avoids. Then you’ve got guys like McHale, Jerry Lucas, Gus Johnson, Debusschere, even real old-timers like Dolph Schayes. I’d put Sheed near that second tier, which is still an incredible achievement. But you can’t take nights off and make Top 5.

]]> By: DJ http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119606 DJ Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:14:20 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119606 LB, I consider Rasheed Wallace one of the alltime best Power forwards in the history of the game because, I can't find many who have (or) had the impact he has, there are better overall low post scorers, better overall defenders, better overall 3-point shooters, but I can find none who are in the top 75-80 percentile in all three catergories, then add in his BB IQ, not to forget his shot blocking, and personally, I think he is an all aroud better 4 than Tim Duncan. Rasheed has the talent and ability to start at the 5, 4, 3 and quite possibly the 2, I can think of no other forward with that kind of talent and range. I think the closest active player in the NBA to Rasheed is Carlos Boozer. Kevin Garnett, as good as he is, doesn't have the range Rasheed has, I don't believe he is athletic enough nor a good enough perimeter shooter to move to the 3, although I will concede he would excel as a center. LeBron is fantastic as a 3, would probably be an exceptional Point Guard as well (never happen...I'm just sayin'), but I can't see him bangin' on the box as much as Rasheed, or Duncan, or KG, so no 4 or 5 LeBron. I have never seen Duncan shoot from beyond the Arc (don't really follow the Spurs though), and place him in the same categroy as KG but, please sir, as your time permits, I am curious as to who would place above Rasheed and why, I believe I answered your question, I hope satisfactorily, thank-you for response. LB, I consider Rasheed Wallace one of the alltime best Power forwards in the history of the game because, I can’t find many who have (or) had the impact he has, there are better overall low post scorers, better overall defenders, better overall 3-point shooters, but I can find none who are in the top 75-80 percentile in all three catergories, then add in his BB IQ, not to forget his shot blocking, and personally, I think he is an all aroud better 4 than Tim Duncan. Rasheed has the talent and ability to start at the 5, 4, 3 and quite possibly the 2, I can think of no other forward with that kind of talent and range. I think the closest active player in the NBA to Rasheed is Carlos Boozer. Kevin Garnett, as good as he is, doesn’t have the range Rasheed has, I don’t believe he is athletic enough nor a good enough perimeter shooter to move to the 3, although I will concede he would excel as a center. LeBron is fantastic as a 3, would probably be an exceptional Point Guard as well (never happen…I’m just sayin’), but I can’t see him bangin’ on the box as much as Rasheed, or Duncan, or KG, so no 4 or 5 LeBron. I have never seen Duncan shoot from beyond the Arc (don’t really follow the Spurs though), and place him in the same categroy as KG but, please sir, as your time permits, I am curious as to who would place above Rasheed and why, I believe I answered your question, I hope satisfactorily, thank-you for response.

]]> By: LawyerBoy http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119585 LawyerBoy Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:49:00 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119585 DJ, I like Rasheed as much as anyone, but he never was and never will be a top 5 all-time power forward. He's not even a clear cut choice for top-10 (depending on what your definition of a 4 is and what players are eligible for the "4" in this scenario). I also think your posit that Hayes will "probably be starting for the Bucks or Sonics next year" is questionable. I would hope, and at current time assume, that we would be able to re-sign Jarvis for a moderate contract assuming that was Joe's wish. If this weren't the case, I would also imagine that any team that would desire his services would plan on utilizing him in a manner similar to the way we have him in the lineup currently. On the subject of our future frontline, I love the look of it as well, though it should be made apparent that Hermann is a free agent at season's end is no lock to remain a Piston beyond this season. Amir as a future 5 is a concept which intrigues me. If he really is 6'11" instead of his previously listed 6'9" (still not buying it) and he is able to add a solid 20-30 pounds, I could realistically envision it. I think there are a lot of uncertain contingencies it depends on, but I enjoy the forward thinking. DJ, I like Rasheed as much as anyone, but he never was and never will be a top 5 all-time power forward. He’s not even a clear cut choice for top-10 (depending on what your definition of a 4 is and what players are eligible for the “4″ in this scenario).

I also think your posit that Hayes will “probably be starting for the Bucks or Sonics next year” is questionable. I would hope, and at current time assume, that we would be able to re-sign Jarvis for a moderate contract assuming that was Joe’s wish. If this weren’t the case, I would also imagine that any team that would desire his services would plan on utilizing him in a manner similar to the way we have him in the lineup currently.

On the subject of our future frontline, I love the look of it as well, though it should be made apparent that Hermann is a free agent at season’s end is no lock to remain a Piston beyond this season. Amir as a future 5 is a concept which intrigues me. If he really is 6′11″ instead of his previously listed 6′9″ (still not buying it) and he is able to add a solid 20-30 pounds, I could realistically envision it. I think there are a lot of uncertain contingencies it depends on, but I enjoy the forward thinking.

]]> By: Quick Darshan http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119555 Quick Darshan Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:28:24 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119555 pistons.com tackled the Amir situation today. pistons.com tackled the Amir situation today.

]]> By: DJ http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119527 DJ Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:50:39 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119527 Amir is truly a conundrum for this site! Everyone seems to want him on the floor somewhere, I too would like to see more Amir, but where? Some have said he should back up Tay at the 3, seems to me Detroit uses Hayes and sometimes Afflalo and lets not forget Hermann, How 'bout the 4, Maxi is the primary backup there, then there is our only "concern", the 5. We have (in my opinion) a top 5 all-time 4 starting at center, and Brezec as a backup, or McDyess when Maxi is in, or I think Maxi even played the 5 a couple times (could be wrong there, but it appeared to me he was), it only makes sense that Brezec gets more time on the court here than Amir, Brezec IS a 5. Amir may be our center of the future or our combo big man (to coin a phrase.) As young and talented as he is, maybe, just maybe Flip and his coaching staff are trying to teach a (somewhere around) 6'10'' guy how to play the 5 (would love to see Amir under the tutelage of Webber here.) Stuckey comes off the bench as a 2 then rotates over to the 1, When Johnson is on the court he is usually at the 4, but I see him defensively playing the 5 with Brezec rolling to the 4, please, someone correct me if I am seeing things wrong, but it certainly appeared to me that way in the Milwaukee blow out and during the time he was on the court in the knicks debacle. Secondly, with an aging Rasheed Wallace and soon to be retiring Antonio McDyess, the Front court of the future looks a little imposing Starting Center-Johnson/Samb, PF-Maxi/Johnson, SF-Prince/Affalo/Hermann, I like what I see in the front court, as far as our back court is concerned, Rip/Affalo/Stuckey at the 2 and Billups/Stuckey/somenewguy at PG. I would love Detroit to keep Hayes, but he will probably be starting for the Bucks or Sonics next year. Thoughts anyone? Amir is truly a conundrum for this site! Everyone seems to want him on the floor somewhere, I too would like to see more Amir, but where? Some have said he should back up Tay at the 3, seems to me Detroit uses Hayes and sometimes Afflalo and lets not forget Hermann, How ’bout the 4, Maxi is the primary backup there, then there is our only “concern”, the 5. We have (in my opinion) a top 5 all-time 4 starting at center, and Brezec as a backup, or McDyess when Maxi is in, or I think Maxi even played the 5 a couple times (could be wrong there, but it appeared to me he was), it only makes sense that Brezec gets more time on the court here than Amir, Brezec IS a 5. Amir may be our center of the future or our combo big man (to coin a phrase.) As young and talented as he is, maybe, just maybe Flip and his coaching staff are trying to teach a (somewhere around) 6′10” guy how to play the 5 (would love to see Amir under the tutelage of Webber here.) Stuckey comes off the bench as a 2 then rotates over to the 1, When Johnson is on the court he is usually at the 4, but I see him defensively playing the 5 with Brezec rolling to the 4, please, someone correct me if I am seeing things wrong, but it certainly appeared to me that way in the Milwaukee blow out and during the time he was on the court in the knicks debacle. Secondly, with an aging Rasheed Wallace and soon to be retiring Antonio McDyess, the Front court of the future looks a little imposing Starting Center-Johnson/Samb, PF-Maxi/Johnson, SF-Prince/Affalo/Hermann, I like what I see in the front court, as far as our back court is concerned, Rip/Affalo/Stuckey at the 2 and Billups/Stuckey/somenewguy at PG. I would love Detroit to keep Hayes, but he will probably be starting for the Bucks or Sonics next year. Thoughts anyone?

]]> By: Kyle http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119524 Kyle Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:28:29 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119524 QD, i agree, but i think maxy got more of a pass than amir because of his body. all he did at first was offensive putbacks, but he got credit for it. now amir has done the same, but for some reason we criticize him for it. and besides, theorizing by either of us what might happen if he got a shot is silly. the fact he still hasn't gotten one is silly. run three plays specifically for him a night for two weeks. if he really is at that big a disadvantage because of his body, fine, i accept it. but why not try? kevin s., i think he's viewed as valuable because he's the biggest big we've got and he's shown the foot speed and hustle to be an asset on the defensive end. i agree that we should be focusing more on amir, but i think brezec has shown some useful assets. QD,
i agree, but i think maxy got more of a pass than amir because of his body. all he did at first was offensive putbacks, but he got credit for it. now amir has done the same, but for some reason we criticize him for it.

and besides, theorizing by either of us what might happen if he got a shot is silly. the fact he still hasn’t gotten one is silly. run three plays specifically for him a night for two weeks. if he really is at that big a disadvantage because of his body, fine, i accept it. but why not try?

kevin s.,
i think he’s viewed as valuable because he’s the biggest big we’ve got and he’s shown the foot speed and hustle to be an asset on the defensive end. i agree that we should be focusing more on amir, but i think brezec has shown some useful assets.

]]> By: kevin s. http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119433 kevin s. Fri, 18 Jan 2008 06:01:20 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119433 Brezec has been abysmal for two years running. Johnson deserves some minutes on merit, and his potential certainly ought to break any ties in this regard. Have you compared the PERs between Brezec and Johnson? It's not close, and there is no mitigating cricumstance that justifies the minutes. Herrman is talented and young. Sure, work him into the rotation. But Brezec should not earn a single minute while Amir sits. If someone can make a valid counterargument with data to back it up, let me know. Brezec has been abysmal for two years running. Johnson deserves some minutes on merit, and his potential certainly ought to break any ties in this regard. Have you compared the PERs between Brezec and Johnson? It’s not close, and there is no mitigating cricumstance that justifies the minutes.

Herrman is talented and young. Sure, work him into the rotation. But Brezec should not earn a single minute while Amir sits. If someone can make a valid counterargument with data to back it up, let me know.

]]> By: Garrett http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119425 Garrett Fri, 18 Jan 2008 05:01:33 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119425 My biggest problem with Amir is that he isn't even on the roster in NBA Live 08. I mean, c'mon. My biggest problem with Amir is that he isn’t even on the roster in NBA Live 08. I mean, c’mon.

]]> By: Quick Darshan http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119390 Quick Darshan Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:45:33 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119390 Kyle, I see him as a face the basket player too but he'll still get bumped on the drive, throwing off his shot. At this level, I can't see him just blowing by people so he'll have to bulk up to be able to absorb contact and finish. Compare Maxiell's production in limited time the last two years to Amir now. He made an instant impact because he has an NBA body. Kyle, I see him as a face the basket player too but he’ll still get bumped on the drive, throwing off his shot. At this level, I can’t see him just blowing by people so he’ll have to bulk up to be able to absorb contact and finish.

Compare Maxiell’s production in limited time the last two years to Amir now. He made an instant impact because he has an NBA body.

]]> By: Kyle http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119375 Kyle Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:31:36 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119375 QD, that would be true if he were a back to the basket player. i always saw him as a facing the basket guy who used speed and trickiness to get inside, not strength. you're right though about his size on the defensive end, that's why i'd like to see him at the three. i'm sure he could guard threes and some fours, but he won't be able to guard 5's or be a legit post up player until he puts on some weight. MP, i too have given up on amir for this season, but i still worry about getting webber back. amir or not, i think webber brings more negatives then positives. QD,
that would be true if he were a back to the basket player. i always saw him as a facing the basket guy who used speed and trickiness to get inside, not strength. you’re right though about his size on the defensive end, that’s why i’d like to see him at the three. i’m sure he could guard threes and some fours, but he won’t be able to guard 5’s or be a legit post up player until he puts on some weight.

MP,
i too have given up on amir for this season, but i still worry about getting webber back. amir or not, i think webber brings more negatives then positives.

]]> By: Quick Darshan http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119364 Quick Darshan Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:51:33 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119364 This is enjoyable... http://hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/index.php/2008/01/17/joakim-noah-please-shut-up/ This is enjoyable…

http://hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/index.php/2008/01/17/joakim-noah-please-shut-up/

]]> By: Mike Payne http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119357 Mike Payne Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:03:34 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119357 Those of us who want more PT for Amir should be those in the "no Webber" camp. Webber would be the nail in the coffin for Amir this season. I've changed a bit on my stance on that argument though, and primarily because I've accepted that this season won't be Amir's awakening. Having accepted that, I'm more willing to entertain Webber as our 4th big behind Wallace, McDyess, and Maxiell. However, with the noted slowing down of Maxiell, as pointed out by MW in this post, wouldn't you think that this could be a golden opportunity for Amir? Those of us who want more PT for Amir should be those in the “no Webber” camp. Webber would be the nail in the coffin for Amir this season.

I’ve changed a bit on my stance on that argument though, and primarily because I’ve accepted that this season won’t be Amir’s awakening. Having accepted that, I’m more willing to entertain Webber as our 4th big behind Wallace, McDyess, and Maxiell.

However, with the noted slowing down of Maxiell, as pointed out by MW in this post, wouldn’t you think that this could be a golden opportunity for Amir?

]]> By: Quick Darshan http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119355 Quick Darshan Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:40:13 +0000 http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-01-17/amir-johnsons-minutes-are-tied-to-fouls/#comment-119355 Playing time is not the biggest factor in Amir's development. It's weight training. He still doesn't have an NBA body. As athletic as he is, he won't be able to hold his position on offense or defense until he bulks up. And he won't be able to finish with a body on him. Until he bulks up, it'll be put back dunks and an occasional fadeaway. Nothing more. Playing time is not the biggest factor in Amir’s development. It’s weight training. He still doesn’t have an NBA body. As athletic as he is, he won’t be able to hold his position on offense or defense until he bulks up. And he won’t be able to finish with a body on him. Until he bulks up, it’ll be put back dunks and an occasional fadeaway. Nothing more.

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