By Kevin Sawyer
Well, the fans have spoken and have made their largely uninformed selections to represent their respective conferences in the NBA 2008 all-star game. Here are my capsule commentaries on the starters, and my votes for who should be selected as reserves.
Eastern Conference
Forwards – LeBron James & Kevin Garnett
Well, yeah.
Center – Dwight Howard
Hmmm… Maybe the fans got it right this year.
Guards – Jason Kidd & Dwyane Wade
Now that’s the ignorance we’ve come to know and love. How mediocre has Kidd been this season? Three teams in the league have TWO point guards with better player efficiency ratings. That’s what happens when you shoot 37%. This ranks with the worst starting selections in all-star history. I can tolerate the Wade pick, though I am starting to wonder if it will be his last. He’s the Bernard King of guards.
Western Conference
Forwards - Tim Duncan & Carmelo Anthony
If I put together a list of the NBAs most overrated players next year, I know who I am adding. No, not Duncan, for crying out loud.
Center – Yao Ming
This could have gone either way, between Yao and Amare Stoudemire. Stoudemire has been better, but has played fewer minutes, and Yao is on the upswing. Of course, China will ensure that Yao is elected so long as he is on the ballot.
Guards – Kobe Bryant & Allen Iverson
I can’t knock the fans for failing to send Paul, who is relatively new to the scene, and plays in a small (and otherwise plagued) market. Iverson’s selection over Nash surprises me, but he (unlike Melo) merits and all-star selection, and, you know, thugz foreva’ and all that.
Eastern Reserves
Forwards: Caron Butler, Paul Pierce, Josh Smith
Apologies to: Richard Jefferson, Antawn Jamison
Much is being made of the Wizards “miracle” run to 42 wins without Gilbert Arenas, and Butler deserves all the credit in the world, but that roster doesn’t have three all-stars on it. Ditto the Nets, except that nobody is making anything of them, and their roster doesn’t have a single all-star on it, and their inexorable march to 42 wins has been a bit circuitous this year. Pierce is borderline, but it’s fairly well impossible not to give the Celtics two selections. Josh Smith hasn’t quite arrived yet, but is the most talented of this group.
Centers: Chris Bosh
Apologies to Shaq, Brendan Haywood, Zydrunas Ilgauskas
I am guessing that most coaches are going to make the same calculation I have here. Shaq is injured, and hasn’t played well when healthy. Bosh can play center, and the sportswriters have been pimping him for this spot for a while. I have to wonder if Haywood doesn’t pick up Ilgauskas Memorial unnecessary third center award. Of course, Ilgauskas himself is in the running as well, but voters might fix upon Haywood on a surprising Wizards team.
Guards: Jose Calderon, Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton
Apologies to: Michael Redd, Ray Allen
Billups’ inclusion is obvious. Calderon’s numbers look a little weak because he has just emerged into the starting role, but his per minute play doesn’t even make it a close shave. Rip and Redd are neck and neck as usual, so team success is the tie-breaker. Ray Allen really shouldn’t be in the discussion, but will almost certainly be selected for his final all-star appearance.
Prediction: Butler, Jamison, Haywood, Pierce, Allen, Billups and Bosh round out the worst all-star roster in NBA history.
Western Reserves
Forwards: Dirk Nowitzki, Carlos Boozer
Apologies to: Josh Howard, Al Jefferson, Shawn Marion
Nowitzki and Boozer are extremely obvious. Howard and Marion are victims of the hit parade of outstanding guards, which represents a sea change from a year ago. Jefferson is probably deserving, but his team is really bad, and he really doesn’t play any defense.
Center: Amare Stoudemire
Apologies to: Marcus Camby, Andrew Bynum
Many writers are hocking Camby here over Stoudemire, which is ridiculous. Stoudemire may be the best center in basketball. Nobody can say that about Camby. Alas, the Camby love might result in another Ilgauskas award, ousting a much more deserving player.
Guards: Chris Paul, Manu Ginobili, Steve Nash, Baron Davis
Apologies to: Tracy McGrady, Deron Williams, Brandon Roy, Tony Parker, Kevin Martin…
Can’t see denying Ginobili this year when he has easily been the most effective Spur (and a top ten player in the league) though he might be snubbed yet again. Chris Paul and Steve Nash need no introduction. That leaves Davis as the most controversial pick here, and I think he is in a virtual tie with Williams. Tie-breaker goes to the team with no all-stars, and I think the coaches will agree with me, though I think Ginobili will lose out to the feel-good story Roy or the slightly overrated Josh Howard.
Prediction: Nowitzki, Boozer, Stoudemire, Paul, Nash, Davis and Howard, though the last pick could go in any number of directions.
If you all loved Amir Johnson that much you shoulda voted him into the all-star game just to force a change in the process. You lazy fools.
People are actually saying Haywood should be in the all star game? I dont buy that for a second. My prediction is this:
East: Butler, Jamison, Big Z, Pierce, Rip, Billups and Bosh
West: Nowitzki, Boozer, Stoudemire, Paul, Nash, Davis and Ginobli
What a big popularity contest. Kidd and Wade should not be on it. I dont think players on terrible squads should be allowed on it. Dumb dumb dumb. Plus even though Sheed doesnt really care to be an All-star I think he should be the backup before Big Z
I agree that Sheed should be there instead of Big Z but if he doesnt want to go then Big Z is next in line.
uh oh, we’re going to get a lot of people that are mad because he said something bad about the overrated/washed up Jason Kidd!
Why should Ray Allen be on the team? He’s been mediocre, at best, in the last month. I’d rather see Joe Johnson over Rip OR Ray Allen.
Boney, you say Allens been mediocre and he should be replaced by Ray Allen? Hmmmm…
I dont know about Joe Johnson either. But like opinions are like assholes…everyone has one. Have a good monday everybody.
“This ranks with the worst starting selections in all-star history.”
Kevin, either you’re trying to sneak hyperbole in under the guise of poetic license or your unyielding contempt for Jason Kidd’s game has you blinded. Yes, the guy may not the best PG and is certainly not one of the two best guards in the East this year, but he’s still a great player. I think one could reasonably argue that he brings as much to the court as any single Piston is this season. And addressing what Ronnie says, the whole point of the all-star game is to showcase the best individuals. Wade and Kidd can’t help it if their teams suck.
He’s averaging a career low 36.7%, so what? He’s a distributor. He’s going to provide excellent passing in the All-Star Game, which is important for all the alley-oops (read: All-Star game is a joke). Besides, 37% is not that egregious for a guy who usually hovers around 40 percent give or take a percent. He’s only averaging 11.3 points. That’s prety bad, except when you consider he’s averaging a whopping 10.4 assists, albeit it with a regrettable 3.7 assists, but he LEADS the Nets in rebounds.
Their SIX FOOT FOUR inch point guards leads the team with (a career high) 8.3 rebounds. You know how many Pistons average more than that? One. Antonio McDyess has 8.5 rebounds.
I’m not trying to say Kidd is in the prime of his career or is some sort of MVP candidate, but he is certainly putting up solid numbers worth of (at the very least) general sll-star consideration (maybe even for starter). Point being, this isn’t some egregious error by the fans. At least they didn’t vote in Gilbert in spite his injury.
Your other options to start:
- Joe Johnson (replaced an injured Kidd last year, clearly a better pick in my book, but it’s not that big of a slight to Johnson who will surely be a reserve this year)
- Chauncey Billups (apparently a better choice to you, but I would say it’s at least reasonably debatable)
- Michael Redd (I dunno, starting to grab for straws if you ask me.)
- Rip Hamilton (see Michael Redd, especially because of his extremly cold start to the season)
- Ray Allen (really? you want me to respond to that because i think it’s been said?)
- Jose Calderon (awesome player, but an all-star? not this season at all. he’s probably as good or better of a player than some/many on this list, but not deserving for the reason you mentioned as not being a big deal: cumulative playing time.)
As for analyzing the Western conference guards … That’s just too daunting a task for me to even consider whittling down, so I applaud Kevin for just giving it a go.
I don’t have the patience to analyze any of the other choices nor will I subject you to any further discussion since my post has been long enough. If I get around to it, I’d be happy to weigh in on Kevin’s other choices.
Ok, well I’m leaving the office. Great talking to you guys on this subject today, it got me through the afternoon. Good argument all around. My closing point will be they should take Team USA and put them against the remaining people not on that team into an All-Star team. Kinda like letting getting the chance to see the olympic team play and it would be good practice for them to play together since its been since the summer that they have. Have a good night and talk to you all tommorrow.
i’m no kidd-hater, but after his one game “migraine” and then stating that losing is what his team does, I sure wouldn’t have voted him on the team.
and my dad has always argued that Kidd’s desire to get rebounds does more to pad his stats then it does to help the team win. i think last year they were about ninth in the league in fast break points, i wonder how much better they’d have done if their dynamo point guard wasn’t stuck down low, fighting for rebounds.
Kevin, I don’t know who you talk to, but nobody is talking Haywood for all star. Or Old Z. Nobody. Find new friends to talk hoops with. I like your picks for reserves, esp. Smith, who would bring it. Your prediction for east, way off, esp. “worst all-star roster” talk. Check back 5 years ago or so. Stop looking when you see “Jamaal Magloire”. This years game will be good, and give the coaches some credit for picking reserves.
“Stoudemire may be the best center in basketball”
Give me a f**king break! he’s averaging 22 and 9 at 32 mpg and we all know that’s only cause he gets fed the ball by the best passer in the NBA. Dwight howard get 22 and 15 in 38 mpg and he makes his own shots and hustles like a mad man.
Camby is my main man and has better efficiency and i’d take him healthy than stoudemire except for the age thing which you just can’t fight…
Plus Stoudemire can’t d up at all. Not the best center by a long shot
“Stop looking when you see “Jamaal Magloire”. This years game will be good, and give the coaches some credit for picking reserves.”
Give the same coaches who picked Jamaal Magloire credit for picking reserves?
“Kevin, I don’t know who you talk to, but nobody is talking Haywood for all star. ”
Nobody was talking Magloire for all-star. There are coaches who will feel compelled to vote for two backup centers, no matter what.
“Kevin, either you’re trying to sneak hyperbole in under the guise of poetic license or your unyielding contempt for Jason Kidd’s game has you blinded. Yes, the guy may not the best PG and is certainly not one of the two best guards in the East this year, but he’s still a great player.”
He’s a slightly above average player. Whether that is contemptuous to say or not is your call. His rebounding is commendable (though he does earn many of them by playing out of position to his team’s detriment), but find me three starting selections that are worse. I can’t think of one.
“Chauncey Billups (apparently a better choice to you, but I would say it’s at least reasonably debatable)”
It is only debatable if you are ignorant of why Billups is a special player. Billups gets to the lane without turning the ball over. He is virtually alone among NBA players in possessing that skill. He also Assists are one of the most overrated stats in basketball. They are contingent on whether the player receiving a pass shoots and makes that shot, both out of the PGs control. Shooting 37%, on the other hand, largely rests on the player himself.
“Give me a f**king break! he’s averaging 22 and 9 at 32 mpg and we all know that’s only cause he gets fed the ball by the best passer in the NBA.”
I don’t know anything of the sort. His offensive game does not consist of simply catching and shooting under the basket. If he played 40 mpg (as he will in the playoffs), he would average 28 and 11. And he has to share the rebounds with another great rebounder, which Howard doesn’t. I would give the edge to Howard, though, because of defense.
kevin s. - Stoudamire doesn’t play D. None of the guys on that team play D. To say he’s the best would mean he’s the best overall because you could argue that Camby makes up for what he lacks in offense for his defensive prowess…you could argue that D Howard is the best all around center in the league…
Stoudamire is a good player, but he’s not the best at his position. The best is best all around, not just good because he fills up the points and rebounds section of the stat sheet… that and the fact that he’s possibly the only player who complains more than Sheed for lesser offenses..
Kevin,
2004-2005: Tracy McGrady over the eventual league MVP that season, Steve Nash.
2004-2005: Grant Hill (one of the East starting forwards along w/Vince Carter, LeBron started at SG) over Jermaine O’Neal. O’Neal did miss from the end of November to December which makes his campaign arguable, but he was absolutely light years better than Hill by the time ballots went out that season.
2003-2004: Steve Francis being selected as a starter for the West at all (4 games total w/double figure assists and 1 game with over 30 points before the All-Star break that season, not to mention not averaging close to 20 points). Easily worse than Kidd, who still brings it every night he’s out there.
Those three are just the first handful that come to mind in only the past few seasons. You’re blinded in terms of Kidd. Say what you want about his personality (detestable), his constant trade demands which result in migraines (abhorrent), but dude plays and distributes the ball incredibly every night he steps on the floor. He’s a once in a basketball generation talent. Chauncey, who in my eyes is having the best overall season of his career, is just not.
As for him being a “special player” because he “gets to the lane without turning the ball over. He is virtually alone among NBA players in possessing that skill.” Apparently you’re ignorant on what it means to be “virtually alone” since there are (at least) a handful of guys who do it, and in most cases, better than Chauncey. Apparently you don’t care to talk about that young buck down in New Orleans named Chris Paul. He does that, as well as score, better than Chauncey ever has. That guy’s only 22 and in his 3rd season! And regarding that stat that PGs can most control, FG %, he blows Chauncey out of the water.
And Calderon? He’s also killing Chauncey in terms of distribution v. turnover and is a nastier 3 point shooter. Yes, I am the one who said that his body of work is too small to merit all-star consideration (and I stand by that), but the argument that Chauncey’s skill set is rare and that he’s so special, simply comes off as Detroit fanboy hyperbole. Chauncey has only been to the all-star game twice before this season. He’s the only NBA Finals MVP outside of Cedric “Cornbread” Maxwell to not make the All-Star team the year he won Finals MVP. That’s TWO of THIRTY-NINE seasons (twenty-four separate players). He’s NEVER made the NBA All-First Team. He has made the NBA All-Defensive First Team once. Hell, he’s only made the 2nd and 3rd time once each. That’s not a rare player. That’s a very good to great player.
The rarest thing Chauncey has, is his ability to manage the Pistons down the stretch in tough games through a combination of offensive efficiency and well-placed (meaning, before the very end of the game) clutch shots for so many damn seasons over so many damn big games. But that’s in some part due to the fact that we’re a great team as well.
Maybe one could make an argument that among PGs in today’s NBA, Chauncey is one of (if not the best) defender. I’ll grant that he may well be the best, but that doesn’t put him in rarefied air when coupled with the rest of his skills. So, why isn’t he really that rare? Because, if you put Chris Paul’s skills on this team with Chauncey familiarity and comfort level with the group, this team wins an automatic championship. What it loses in D, it makes up and more in O. The same can be said if you substitute Chris Paul in that scenario with Steve Nash. Arguments could be made for Baron Davis, Tony Parker, and hell, Jose Calderon the way he’s playing right now. And yes, Mr. Kidd himself. We’d seemingly have as good a shot (or better) to win it all this season with those guys as we do with Chauncey. This is, of course, assuming those guys had his familiarity (five and a half seasons worth) with this squad/organization. Chauncey is a really good, possibly great player, but he’s not even going to be mentioned legitimately as a Hall of Fame candidate (let alone inducted), the ultimate individual accolade in basketball (though it routinely reflects your teams’ success as well) without another championship. And poo poo him all you want, but you know they’ve probably already made Kidd’s HOF bust.
“you could argue that D Howard is the best all around center in the league…”
I did argue that. I don’t think it’s close between him and Camby, though.
Lawyerboy, you trippin’
Substituting Paul for Chauncey wouldn’t change the fact that Detroit is an incredible team that has won a bajillion games over the last stretch (I don’t like to sneak my hyperbole in, but rather carry it draped over my shoulder). If Paul, who is 20 pounds of talent in a ten pound bag, played for Detroit and had the same experience and familiarity with the team (making this a hypothetical worthy of the Hypothetical Hall of Fame), then he would probably do exactly what Chauncey does: control tempo, distribute, score when needed, and defend.
Paul is a great player, so if he played for Detroit he would likely recognize that his scoring abilities, like Chauncey’s, are not always the most vital part of his game. Paul will be a joy to watch for years, but it is ridiculous to talk about a “guaranteed championship” when you’ve only seen Paul play with a team that requires him to do everything. Paul’s offensive skills, at least statistics-wise, might be better than Chauncey’s, but Chauncey has lead a group of players that includes 4 current or former All-Stars, many of whom have a ring or two. Paul has resurrected a team that will, if they make a few conference finals and win a championship, begin to have the same bulls-eye that Detroit has had painted on their back for the last 4 seasons.
No argument that Paul is great, but you’ve taken a pretty narrow view of which skills win championships if you fantasize that substituting Paul for Chauncey wins a chip.
Also, put Chauncey on New Orleans and I’m guessing that his PPG and APG go up, along with his MPG.
I won’t even bring up that you also gave Paul 3 extra years of experience…
PDX, I just meant that if Paul had the type of familiarity that gives Chauncey such a great advantage of many PGs in today’s free-agent market. Paul gets more out of less. Yes, I displayed it in a hypothetical that gives Paul more time than he’s actually had in the league, but in terms of what’s real, Chauncey is not a memorable star in this league. Kidd is, and he’s not a complete shell of himself yet so him going to the All-Star Game as a starter is not even close to being up there with Francis in ‘03-’04 (look into it, trust me). Is Chauncey one of the premier players (especially at his position) for the time being? Sho nuff.
He’s top 5 (occasionally top 3) at PG every year the last half decade. However, will people outside of Detroit fans care about the guy when he’s long since retired? No. He’s not going to the Hall of Fame and no one will care once he’s a retired after thought. Think Terry Porter or Michael Finley, and you basically have the career trajectory of Chauncey Billups barring, exclusively an All-Star appearance this year coupled with another NBA Finals MVP at season’s end (which if we won the title I’d be skeptical he’d get it again if Rip continues to play the way he is right now).
Now I’m not saying a guy gets to be an All-Star (starter) because of his career accomplishments. But for this season, Chauncey has been great and Kidd has been pretty darn close to great too. As I said previously, it’s a debatable snub, though anything but colossal.
Kevin was right all along about Darko; I admit that. Apparently he sucks, probably for good now.
LB:
“He’s top 5 (occasionally top 3) at PG every year the last half decade. However, will people outside of Detroit fans care about the guy when he’s long since retired? No. He’s not going to the Hall of Fame and no one will care once he’s a retired after thought.”
S7:
http://www.databasebasketball.com/leaders/leadershof.htm
More importantly, ‘likely HOF > 135′
Oh, I carry on through the horrors of T-Mac @ 132. Vince Carter’s 111, BTW.
Over to this page:
http://www.databasebasketball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=DUMARJO01
Damn. 105.
Chauncey’s @ 90 or something like that. Yikes.
He’s not done yet though. I keep hoping Chauncey makes it another half-decade. I want to see his crusty self moseying up the court in 2012. He’s part of our team’s identity, even the airballs vs. Boston.
That has nothing or little to do with what you’re writing, but I thought I’d just kinda push out the idea that Chauncey’s worth something and could be worth more, historically, in the near future.
Also, AS Game pretty much met my last nerve when Shaq was there last year. That’s why I’m pissed at all you Amir-lovers for not blowing the whole process apart. I see the empty seats at the Palace when I watch the games. I know what’s goin’ on.
Damn you, Ron Artest.
chris paul is getting 10 assist a game in a team that has 21 apg
chauncey is getting 18 and 7 in a team that has 22 apg.
what i’m saying is the teams move the ball about as well but in detroit the focus is not on a single guy. I know it’s only a 3 assist difference but it’s the difference between having 50% and 33% of the team’s assists.
Detroit moves the ball better as a unit. new orleans HAVE to get Paul to do his thing.
And about shawn marion “taking away” from stoudemire’s rebounds, the matrix is rebounding the ball less efficiently than he had like 4 years ago by about 2.5 rebs peg game. during that time amare has stayed put in the 9 rpg stat. this is a team that has on average more possesions in a game than any other. it’s not that the rebounds are not out there, it’s just that he cares more about his ppg than actually working hard for position under the basket, closing out rebounders and defending….well anything
“He’s a once in a basketball generation talent. Chauncey, who in my eyes is having the best overall season of his career, is just not.”
Once in a generation? What generation are Gary Payton and Steve Nash a part of? Kidd has had a better career than Chauncey, but this Chauncey is far better than Kidd this year.
” (at least) a handful of guys who do it, and in most cases, better than Chauncey.”
Which guys? Let’s throw out five other guys who get to the line: Dwyane Wade, LeBron, Tony Parker and Chris Paul, and Allen Iverson and see how they do. As a means of comparison, let’s say (assists + (0.6*FTA))/TO would give us a fairly good readout… That’s assists (eliminating the advantage for big men who never pass) + possessions resulting in foul shots (give or take) divided by turnovers. Here is what that yields.
Billups = 5.3
Wade = 2.9
James = 4.3
Paul = 5.2
Parker = 3.6
Allen Iverson = 3.9
The only player in the group who is even close is the aforementioned young buck who has performed better than Chauncey. I would call that virtually alone. Kidd is in Wade territory, in case you were wondering.
Here’s another way to slice it. Look at Kidd and Billups PER. If you can explain the discrepancy, I’ll listen to your argument.
“And about shawn marion “taking away” from stoudemire’s rebounds, the matrix is rebounding the ball less efficiently than he had like 4 years ago by about 2.5 rebs peg game. during that time amare has stayed put in the 9 rpg stat.”
You are making stuff up.
Amare has stayed put, but has played five fewer minutes since the 03-04 season. His rebound per 36.8 minutes (the amount he played in 03-04) have gone up by 1.4.
Marion has played four fewer mpg since the 03-04 season, and has increased his rebounding from 9.3 to 10.1. His rebounds per 40.7 minutes (the amount he played in 03-04) have gone up by 1.1.
Both players have become more aggressive rebounders.