The Pistons battle with female comic book villain Kobe Bryant and the Lakers tonight (7:30, TV20). For the Pistons, it’s their first game of a comfy five-game homestand, while the Lakers are playing their first game of a grueling 9-game road trip.
The Lakers haven’t had very good luck of late, losing four of six games since Andrew Bynum went down, not to mention having Trevor Ariza and Luke Walton join Bynum on the sideline with injuries of their own. The Pistons, meanwhile, are healthy as always. I’ll be at the game filing my pre-game, halftime and post-game observations for HOOPSWORLD, and always, leave your thoughts in the comments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLQhDfO4U1k
This video is exactly what this game is all about. Watch it. Trust me, you will love it.
As someone who lives in LA and knows many Laker fans, losing this game will be completely unacceptable.
So… Beat those tramps. Eat those babies. Kick some puppies. Whatever you need to do, Pistons. WIN THIS GAME!
QD, I don’t live in LA, but I do live in California, so I know way more Lakers fans than I would like. I’ve already had to take one on the chin for their loss earlier this season, but with all of our starters this time, plus Bynum’s gone…Yeah, a must win for us west coast Pistons fans!
WLM1, Laker fans should be embarrassed to talk trash about that first victory. They barely won at home against the Pistons summer league team.
That’s Laker fans for ya! They remind me of Boston fans…
When things are going good, they seem to pop-up everywhere. As soon as they start losing, don’t hear a peep or see a kobe jersey anywhere.
I’ll be surprised if the Lakers come out blazing. It’s cold out there . . . hopefully Los Angeles will be sluggish.
Chauncey and Rip all stars again! Nice. I thought both deserved it and they got it. Very surprised about David West making it but that doesnt mean he didnt deserve it.
Here’s to hoping Rodney Stuckey gets his first break-out game.
unrelated but hilarious:
“• Raptors guard Jose Calderon, a native of Spain, recalling his first experience with trash talk for the Toronto Star: “It was Gary Payton. He was talking to me for the whole game. After one whistle I said, ‘Look, the only thing I can say in English is I don’t understand what you are saying.’ “”
hahaha
go stones!
Lol. What a great story
Joe Johnson?
Afflalo is looking great. Spiting those that passed him over for all-star weekend? I like it.
I’m not gay (NTTAWWT), but Turiaf is one ugly dude. Sam Cassel even thinks so.
Stuckey is showing the lakers how you do it in the club
if stuckey and amir continue to progress like they have been then soon stuckey, rip, tay, amir and sheed will be the best run and gun offense in the league. add in the other reserves and i think they could beat the suns on their own.
Amir’s getting violated down low. He needs to put on 30 more pounds. I see Samb’s up to 245, so Amir should hire his chef.
I loved it when Blaha said he’s “Amir’s WAY too much for Radmanovic.” And it’s true!
Blaha doesn’t usually say too much about the refs, but when he starts, you know they have been pretty biased. Looks like they are trying to hand this one to LA.
Yeah, Pinball, the officiating after the Pistons went up big turned into a total travesty. Is there a group of people on this earth more incompetent at their jobs than NBA officials? Seriously, the end of that half was a joke.
One day, I hope the Pistons learn and just slip the jabronis some cash to eat that whistle.
Horrible officiating! Pistons were clearly the more energetic and aggressive team but they’ve shot two free throws? And the Lakers have at least 20?
BALL DON’T LIE!
Man, Afflalo is really playing well tonight. Our bench looks fantastic so far.
Hell yeah, Other Matt. Afflalo’s D is Piston-grade. Guess he can shoot threes too. Damn, that’s good times.
watched the first quarter then had to go to a happy hour buffet with my girlfriend (she was buying and the margaritas were great) so now I’m back. Sounds like Affolo is doing great. RIP started super hot - is he still going?
Also sounds like D was up big and got the lead robbed from the refs (via the comments).
Stop going to Sheed. He can’t score on Kwame Brown. I know that sounds crazy, but KB is actually a good post defender.
Yeah the fouls are pretty obvious - in terms of sudden breathing fouls on Detroit. It’s booooolllsheeeeiiit.
nba.com says that Rip got 2 T’s in the 2nd and that he hasn’t logged any minutes this half, is that true? Did he get tossed? I wouldn’t think he did because no one posted on it.
theres some straight up bullsh|t going on in this game
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2008013108
If he got 2 - Yahoo! and I missed it.
The free-throw differential is usually a pretty good indication of bias officiating. Just when the Pistons start to get a little rhythm back, in comes some crappy officials to handicap a superstar and drive the Stones nuts!
yeah, they just fixed it. so McDyess picked one up now? That’s crazy, three Detroit T’s and not one from Sheed! You know the officiating must be bad if Antonio isn’t able to keep his composure. I can’t see the game, probably a good thing if it’s as bad as it sounds.
JESUS!!! Now QD and I might have to take a bunch of @#$% from a bunch of Lakers fans that were handed a W. AHHHHHHHHH!!!!! Sometimes I detest the NBA.
Pistons bench, oh how I love thee.
Rodney Stuckey….. We are all witnesses. I can’t believe no one has taken that line. lol
nice challenge to Kobe’s shot by Amir. Amir is becoming a man before our very eyes
No kidding, the bench has been terrific. Stuckey is improving, although he’s still a bit timid at times. It’ll come for him. Afflalo has been awesome. Amir is showing some serious progress. This game has been a joy to watch, officiating aside.
at this point I wouldn’t trade Afflalo for Darko or Stuckey for Darko.. Detroit clearly got the better of that Orlando deal.
When Stuckey figures out how to finish consistently, and it turns out he has an outside jumper, he’s going to be an absolute nightmare to defend. I think Amir’s the same way. If he can put it all together, he’s just going to be a matchup nightmare. I really, really like our bench.
this game is the bench’s coming out party.. I know that they’ve come up big in mop up duty, but to bring the team back to life after shooting only 20% in the 3rd.. it says a lot.
Well, if this ends up being a loss, at least the bench gave it some silver lining.
I think it says a lot that Flip is leaving Stuckey in with 4 minutes to go in a tight game. That’s just how well he’s played tonight.
Spoke too soon.
I say we trade Rip, Amir, and Stuckey for Kendrick Perkins and cash considerations. KPerk as we know, is a beast!!!!
All the kids did well. Too bad there’s been over-yap on one of ‘em.
God. Phil Jackson’s getting huge.
My memory got refreshed from the 88-89 box set - ECF, to see Phil walkin’ around with Doug Collins and his curl-mullet-fro back then - thinner, non-all-grey hair - gasp - time’s not kind to Phil.
But what a coach.
Anyway, suspenseful end here.
PRRRRRINCE
TRAMPIN UP IN HERE ON YOU KOBE
HIS HOUSE
w00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000!
TAYSHAUN!!!!!!!!!! OMFG!!!!!
Kendrick Perkins wouldn’t see the floor is he was Detroit’s roster.
err *if
Perkins = Nazr
Don’t Look Now, but the Pistons are up by 1!
It’s the prince from the citaaay, city of Compton
tay steps up and gets a great win for us with seconds left! Makes up for a lousy shooting spot for sure - to give a solid win against a decent team.
zing.
BOOSH!
I know, it was a joke guys. But, HELL YEAH TAYYYYYYYY. Eat it Kobe
Tayshaun with the dagger…wow!
Well, Stuckey had a good game (I called for a break-out game earlier) but hopefully his performance tonight leads to better games in the future.
Apparently Flip agreed with you WLM1. I imagine the huddle was something like “Well, if we lose, we know the effort was there and we played great. So rather than go for OT, just go for the win!” Of course that didn’t stop me from losing it when they shot two 3’s in a 16 possession to go for the win. But damn, I’m glad it worked.
*16 second
That was awesome. Sauce, you nailed it. My thought process went like this: “SHEEEEED. NOOOOO. TAY! CHAUNCEY NO! TAY! YES! YES! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! Holy crap, Phil Jackson looks like he ate himself. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!”
Other Matt - they only got 8 more road games to go.
COLD WEATHER, SUCKERS.
maybe the game winner by Tay will get his confidence back on the offensive end… he took the ball to the rack with authority tonight, pretty impressive.
the last game was stuckey’s best as a piston. this one easily topped it.
flip has found his rotation.
oh, and this was afflalo’s best of a growing number of good games. there were a fair number of exchanges on the court where aa got the better of kobe bryant. kid was on fire.
I hope so Boney - Tay has had some slim nights. He’s gotta get off the diet.
That dunk Stuckey had started it all. He had some beautiful drives. And that crossover to free up the jumper from the key is unstoppable.
Amir had some nice moments but proved that Flip wasn’t lying about the fouling problem.
It was so fun watching the youngsters run in the first half.
The refs took away all of the Piston aggression in the third quarter. Good to see them get their composure back and pull out a victory.
Man, this could be the most satisfying win as a Pistons fan for me tonight. Crazy part is, I didn’t get to watch it(DAMN)! I know way too many Lakers fans to see a 17-point lead slip away and not have to hear about until NEXT season!!! Plus, Afflalo and Stuckey seemed to have great games if the box score is any indication. I’ll be able to view the entire game soon, my computer is having problems getting the live feeds.
Greg, while most of the time I’d disagree about a coach telling his team to go for the win when they’re playing at home, if the officiating was as bad as it sounds, I wouldn’t trash Flip for calling for a three in that situation, knowing that you’ll probably just get screwed in overtime. It’s definetly a funny sequence to imagine. The huddle forms, Flip is drawing something up, stops, lets his shoulders drop a little as he lets out a sigh and says, “Ahhhhh the hell with it, just go get three points on the board and end it! If not there’s nothing to hang your heads about!”.
Hard not to get excited about Stuckey and Afflalo having good games on the same night.
I thought that if the Pistons could close out the last 5 games of this month with four wins, it would show they were back on track and out of that January slump. As bad as it seemed at times, Detroit still went 9-6 on the month. If that’s struggling, I’ll take it!
Both of those threes were wide open though. You gotta take that shot.
QD - what I liked best about all the kids - closing minute - on the bench - you could see it in their eyes - they know they did well, and they really wanted this win. Hunger.
I’d link that Dirty Dancing song but I don’t like it too much.
C’mon Dallas, that would be the topper, Boston losing at home.
Great game. What is it about the Lakers that make our youngsters play so well. Remember early this year when Amir and Samb had a block party? A rotation of Stuckey, Afflalo, Amir and Max in the playoffs would be great. Sorry Hayes but you’ve shown that when you can’t score you don’t bring anything else.
Leave it to Dallas to lay an egg when KG can’t play.
BTW - Stat that jumped out at me from tonight’s game: Kobe Bryant, 11 turnovers
WLM1-The refs more than made up for that with the amount of free throws they gave him.
Lakers, hell with ‘em. Time for the percolator.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tMEDZnM_TZE
HA HA HA HA!!! It’s alright, Kobe heads will just remember it as a triple-double attained during a heroic performance in a tough loss to a good team on the road.
Possibly 10 of those coming in the first half. I wanted this win much more just because the bench deserved it for their efforts. I have no qualms calling for the win instead of going for OT, just got my heart racing is all. This makes me that much more excited to go to the Dallas game on Sunday.
And low minutes for the starters. Tayshaun the highest at 36:47.
I love when Chauncey gets pissed at the refs. Buries a three. And then stares them down.
Greg, I’m excited for that Dallas game too! Though, I have a feeling that Avery Johnson will have a flame lit beneath that team’s backside after that final two minutes against Boston tonight.
I’m glad we got the win, but I’m even happier that Stuckey, Afflalo, and Amir all had something to do with it.
Do you hear that?…………………..Yeah, nothing. The Laker fans got silenced.
Damn, that had to be the best game yet, because we are getting some young ones in a MAJOR groove, and against a quality team.
QD, just took a quick sidetrack to your myspace/blog and noticed you’re in Ann Arbor. Interesting - I’m currently a student at UM.
“Do you hear that?…………………..Yeah, nothing. The Laker fans got silenced.” -Fadel
I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!! California is a great place to be for a Pistons fan tonight!!!
Washtenaw County in the house. When the game started; I foresaw a Bucks blowout, but this was the best game I have seen this year.(Win vs Celts a close second) Kobe will be and always will be Kobe-Shaq. He will get his points. He will get his free throws, but in clutch time, he is still only one player. He is good enough to make the play-offs, but cannot advance on his own.
Thanks bench players.
Thanks Tay.
F you refs, we don’t pay to watch you. (assholes!)
Kobe really had 11 turnovers? Is that official?
“that didn’t stop me from losing it when they shot two 3’s in a 16 possession to go for the win. But damn, I’m glad it worked.”
Two three point attemps equal a 59% chance of winning.
Two two point attempts equal about a 70% chance of overtime. If we are 60/40 to win in overtime (and that is generous), that gives us a 42% shot.
In two point situations, unless there is someone wide open under the basket, you should take a three. Coaches are catching onto this.
I already had stats class today
Actually I agree, I was glad they went for it. “Losing it” was the wrong phrase in that context. See: elevated heart rate and holding ones breath, followed by loud cheer and excitement.
I’m not one to complain about the refs, but watching the replay, knowing what ultimately happened, what a butcher job. Let me reiterate, I am by no means a conspiracy theorist, but there might have been a legit league protest developing. In hindsight, things played out the way they should have. BALL DON’T LIE
“In hindsight, things played out the way they should have. BALL DON’T LIE” -Yak
Don’t let the win distract you from criticizing the refs. There only two ways to make the awful officiating in this league improve:
1. The common fan has to harp at the league so much that a change is forced.
2. Money is no longer allowed to be wagered on NBA games.
Which one seems more likely?
***After a playoff loss, Chauncey suggested that the refs be forced to give post-game interviews and answer press questions about their calls. It’s a great idea, unfortunately, David Stern and good ideas aren’t very fond of one another.
Much respect to Sauce1977 for posting the YouTube link to the New Dance Show (featuring the Percolator, no less). Growing up near Windsor, I used to catch this show late at night on channel 62 or something, and I’ve tried to explain it (and that song!) to my wife and she just didn’t get it. Now she does.
I’m disappointed that I missed the game, but I did catch the highlights this morning, including a nice two-handed slam from Amir on the break.
thanks to ohad’s links I am watching the game and learned that Rip got his T for telling Nies “you are still blind”, “you are still blind”
wow. Looks like we played the Lakers at the right time: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/50640/20080201/breaking_news_gasol_traded_to_lakers/
Good grief, this is good news for the Lakers.
Now the NBA should begin the process of contracting Memphis from the league!
Wow. Blockbuster trade. Memphis must have been desperate to get rid of Gasol. Kwame’s expiring contract is great and all but why Crittenton? I’ve been impressed with him in the short spurts I’ve seen him but you already have Mike Conley.
Fisher, Kobe, Odom, Gasol and Bynum. That’s a great starting five.
No doubt Sauce. This team obviously wanted to shred a contract as quickly as possible. This makes me particularly laugh at the Bulls though. You’re telling me they couldn’t come up with a similar package to stay relevant this season? It doesn’t appear Memphis was playing hardball. I mean, the Lakers package centers around an expiring contract and a kid who’s going to be buried behind Conley and Lowry at point.
Memphis sure decided to throw LA a bone on that one.
Dang it. Not what I wanted to hear today. 2 friends from Detroit already called me and now I have to deal with all of my Los Angeles-bred friends including a coworker in a nearby cubicle who already had to deal with me popping my Mahorn jersey in his face this morning (That is totally an appropriate time for jersey popping. Take notes, Celtics). Stupid Lakers, someone tell me that a) we’re still a better a team and b) we still have a better starting five. I haven’t had time to wrap my head around this.
You know what else is interesting, and I haven’t seen the media mention this– L.A. also sent Memphis the rights to one of the players they drafted this season. Pau’s little brother, Marc Gasol.
B-plus:
I’m a Pistons fan first. A Lakers fan second. In this thread, you see how my percentage shifts when they play each other. In other comparisons, I’d never be a Celtics fan. Larry Bird is over-rated.
Being that as it is, I am thoroughly ecstatic at the remote possibility of a Pistons / Lakers 2008 Finals. That chance, of course, is remote, since Flip Saunders needs to show me that in the clutch he can manage that team (much like he did last night more often, not like he did vs. Boston the last time). Also, since the Lakers are thin on the bench among a glut of other potent clubs, this one’s going to be a hell of a fair challenge for Phil Jackson to get them to that point. Lakers battle is far more uphill than Detroit’s, in terms of getting to the Finals.
I hope Kobe’s brought his climbing shoes. Ditto Chauncey.
does not really look like memphis got much at all for Gasol
I guess Memphis wanted expiring contracts
This makes lakers much stronger but from Detroit Point of view:
1. Kobi will NOT be coming to the East
2. Bulls will not be getting either Gasol or Kobi
Very surprised that this is the best Memphis could do and that East could not get Gasol
I think the trade works well for Memphis. They get cap space, future picks and the chance to build for the future and stop treading water. Its not like they were tearing up the league or anything.
Oh, and Darko gets more minutes so that he can prove to everybody that he really is a bust.
The Lakers now have the best player and the best team in the NBA. Love our boys but the lakers just went from good to great. And they gave up nothing……..
Carey,
Slow your roll, buddy. We’re good from 1-12, they’re not. We could give them any look we want. They depend on Kobe, and yes Gasol will help a ton, but it’s not time to hand them the Larry O’Brien trophy, not by a longshot. This trade also (reminiscent of Shaq to Miami or 2 of the Big 3 to Boston) is a short window trade. They gave up huge chunks of their future (2008 and 2010 first rounders, Marc Gasol and Javaris Crittenton) for Pau. This better work, or 3 years from now they may look strangely like the Heat.
Besides, you think they like Sasha Vujacic being their only guard besides Kobe who’s over 6′2? I mean, you could count Coby Karl, but dude has logged 33 minutes the entire year. At least the ‘03-’04 Lakers had some big, playoff-tested guards (Devean George, Bryon Russell and Kareem Rush), and a big starting PG in Gary Payton. Outside of Kobe, their backcourt is downright miniature (not to be confused with bad).
This team has holes. While I suppose a debate could be had over which team now has the best starting 5, there’s one thing that can’t be compared: the benches. I dunno about you, but I’ll take: Stuckey, Afflalo, Hayes, Maxiell, Amir, Brezec and Hermann over: Farmar, Vujacic, Walton, Ariza, Ronny Turiaf, Vlad Radmanovic and Chris Mihm (assuming he’s even healthy).
And we still have Lindsey lurking in the shadows come playoff time. How could I forget? On the subject of benches … Advantage: Pistons.
Also, the Lakers ain’t won nothin’ yet. Don’t crown them until they MAKE it to the NBA Finals.
LB’s on it with the bench comparison.
Also, at least cake-stealing figures will drop in the valley.
“Kobe will be and always will be Kobe-Shaq. He will get his points. He will get his free throws, but in clutch time, he is still only one player. He is good enough to make the play-offs, but cannot advance on his own.”
Shaq=Bynum/Gasol?……
Guys don’t take my comments the wrong way. The best team does not always win. I still think the Pistons should make it this year. Gasol does not have to be the star. He can feed off of Kobe and Lamar. Kobe is the best player in the NBA, and now that he has more help makes the team that much better. 1st rd picks in the NBA are not like 1st rd picks in the NFL. The Lakers pick should be late in the first rd away.Memphis will have to lucky to get a really good impact player.It was a great move for the Lakers almost Joe D like.lol Gasol maybe for the Lakers what Sheed was for the Pistons…….
Then the apocalypse is surely descending upon us. I wonder how Gasol and Bynum play off of each other when Bynum’s back, since that dynamic will probably dictate their season.
Great reading over at Pistons.com with a Joe D. interview, that should be pretty affirming for most Pistons fans. Let’s just say it’s all cornbread, for you WDFN fans out there.
Speaking of WDFN (I swear I’m not on their payroll), everyone’s favorite analyst, Bill Walton, was on Stoney & Wojo. He endlessly hyped up the Pistons’ bench, and lauded praise upon Maxiell, Amir, Stuckey and Afflalo.He actually chastised the starters’ complacency (singling out Rasheed and Tayshaun). Then it devolved into BillyWalt pimping his band, and it was all downhill thereafter.
Carey,
I feel what you’re saying that this team just became exceptionally talented in one move, but they’re gonna miss Crittenton in the future. Fisher will be 34 this summer. He’s extremely damaged goods after next season. Even if Farmar becomes a solid replacement, they have NO depth there. As for 1st round picks, specifically late 1st round picks being irrelevant, I disagree completely:
Tayshaun - Pick #23
Maxiell - Pick #26
Hell, Delfino turned out pretty okay for a 25th pick, coming one pick after Brian Cook at #24. And don’t forget Amir Johnson (and Cheikh Samb) were virtual unknowns taken late in the 2nd round. Samb was even drafted by the Lakers themselves.
You’re probably just as likely if not more likely to get an impact 1st rounder in the NBA than the NFL, especially if you know what you’re doing. Now this trade has nothing to do with Joe D. and everything to do with Mitch Kupchak. He’s been pretty decent in the draft, getting both Walton and Turiaf in the 2nd round and Crittenton and Farmar in the 1st round look pretty good so far. And oh yeah, he drafted that kid Bynum despite looking like a moron for that until this season. Whether or not Memphis cashes in, it’s still two less picks in the hands of Kupchak.
That Lakers pick in 2010 could turn out to be a mid first round or lottery pick. Bynum is due a huge raise after next season. And that just happens to be the same summer that Odom AND Ariza are also free agents. This move for Gasol has a very small window unless Kupchak finds a way to make all of that work. Kupchak’s been pretty good in drafts, but not entirely stellar in team management. Come 2010, he may really be itching to have his 1st round pick (and he may not), but the fact is, he doesn’t have it anymore. He’s rolling the dice. Miami rolled the dice on Shaq and got their title, and now they’re an embarrassment. Even if the Lakers snag a title out of this (big if), don’t be shocked to see something at least somewhat similar.
Re: first-round picks — the pick that Detroit gave Atlanta to get Sheed turned into Josh Smith. Everyone still thinks Detroit got Sheed for nothing, but that’s obviously not the case in hindsight.
The picks are not irrelevant. But let’s take a random year in draft history. Say 2002, the year Prince was drafted. The ten players taken immediately ahead of Prince?
13. Marcus Haislip
14. Fred Jones
15. Bostjan Nachbar
16. Jiri Welsch
17. Juan DIxon
18. Curtis Borchardt
19. Ryan Humphrey
20. Kareem Rush
21. Qyntel Woods
22. Casey Jacobsen
By trading two picks, the Lakers traded (maybe, depending on the year) a 1/3 shot at grabbing a Tayshaun Prince caliber player. Let’s say that Crittendon and Gasol each have a 1/3 shot at becoming a player of Prince’s caliber (that is being AWFULLY generous, btw).
So they traded a 70% shot (at best) of landing a really solid player for an all-star. That is a fleecing, and it makes the Lakers a real championship contender.
” Miami rolled the dice on Shaq and got their title, and now they’re an embarrassment.”
Gasol is 27. Shaq wasn’t. And why on earth wouldn’t the Lakers pay Bynum?
Miami had a two year window and won a championship. That alone made the risk worth it. The Lakers have given themselves at least a four year window with their big three. Turiaf and Farmar should be inexpensive to resign, even if some team foolishly throws huge money at Odom.
You have to work pretty hard to find the downside to this for LA. This isn’t a Melo-Iverson situation where you had to wonder how each dude was going to find his shots. These are complimentary players. The Bulls have to be kicking themselves.
I don’t know how anyone can say this is a bad move for the Lakers. When you have the best player in the game (or rather best wing player), you have to try to win now.
A great starting five and their bench is very capable with Turiaf, Walton, Ariza and Farmar. A healthy Mihm would help.
Phil Jackson will find a way to juggle Bynum and Gasol. Although, actually I think Odom is the one that will be the odd man out. My guess is that they’ll play him more with Farmar and their energy lineup. Odom is unstoppable on the break and useless in a half court game.
I still think Boston is the team to beat (don’t kill me) because their defense has been phenomenal. But, my gut reaction to this trade is that it makes the Lakers the best in the West. Phoenix is a fraud. The Spurs look too old. New Orleans is too unproven. To me, it’s Dallas or LA.
Kevin, you’re being short-sighted. Gasol is 27, but Derek Fisher is 33. If you think Farmar is going to be “inexpensive to resign”, you’re being naive. Farmar looks great right now and just got huge leverage for his contract expiration (in 2010). Derek Fisher’s contract conveniently ends the same year as Farmar’s at which time Fisher will be 36 and coming off his 14th season (same year Kobe was drafted though Kobe will only be 32). I think it’ll be time for Fish to hang it up that off-season, and even if they keep him on the cheap he won’t have the legs to be the solid starter he is now anyway so they’ll need Farmar to play the bulk of the minutes at whatever he commands. Assuming Fish retires, that would leave LA with 0 true PGs under contract at the end of 2010 (2 and a half seasons away) out of what makes up their current roster. Farmar can hold them for ransom if he’s as good as he looks this season. Mo Williams is getting $8.5 million a year for 6 years from Milwaukee, is that inexpensive? Cuz that seems about right to me.
I’m sure they’ll pay Bynum, but who’s odd man out? Odom? Maybe. Farmar? Maybe. I’ll tell you this, somebody’s walking and it ain’t just Ariza, unless Kobe opts-out specifically to take less money (HA). This team as it’s set today is not set for a “four-year window” at all. That’s just plain not doing the homework. It’ll take a lot of ifs for them to get that kind of cap space. They have this year and next year (at which point they make minor tweaks when they probably let Vujacic walk and give Turiaf a raise).
Then after the 2008-2009 season Ariza, Bynum and Odom expire and Kobe’s opt-out appears (though he’ll probably exercise his option to stay). The next season Fish and Farmar expire, and boom goes the dynamite. The way that roster is currently structured, it’s going to crumble starting after the end of next season. Are you going to buy out Vlad Radmanovic’s awesome 5 year/$31 million contract (good one, Kupchak) that he signed this offseason? Can you really trade that? Something tells me Dr. Buss didn’t get to be a doctor by giving Radmanovic a bunch of money to walk. Now if they can find a way to move it, they might just buy themselves time or other players. Still, those are big ifs.
The Lakers can’t draft a first rounder this year or in 2010, and they’ll get one chance in 2009 (where I’m sure they hope/expect to be very late in the draft as well). Players on rookie contracts come totally on the cheap and are strangely invaluable even if they’re not that good. Just ask Ronny Turiaf how cool is was to make the league minimum this year when he commands at LEAST $3 million/year this offseason (hey, Amir’s getting more than that and had done less at the point he got extended). They just traded away what appears to be a talented PG in the extremely cheap SIX-FIVE Crittenton and hemorraghed themselves in terms of a backcourt for the future. Coby Karl better be good, because Vujacic ain’t.
This is what their guards look like:
Derek Fisher, 33, 6′1
Kobe Bryant, 29, 6′6
Sasha Vujacic, 24, 6′7
Jordan Farmar, 21, 6′2
Coby Karl, 24, 6′5
Doesn’t look invincible when you realize Kobe’s all they got above 6′2. I don’t care if they’re the slickest, most unselfish offense ever (which they aren’t), the pieces start breaking off at the end of next season. Something’s got to give. The Bulls messed up (per usual), but LA’s window is through next season. There’s the downside. Obviously you didn’t look hard enough for it.
*how cool IT was
And regarding what Darshan said, I don’t want people to think I’m against this move from the Lakers’ standpoint. I agree with Darshan that they have to play for now and they’ve done an excellent service to the squad in that regard with this trade. But they definitely took a serious dent to the future with this move. That has to be reviewed.
However, I’m not sold that they’re the automatic frontrunner now. If the same core we have could dominate Shaq and Kobe, I think it can hang with Kobe, Odom, Bynum and Pau. Maybe it can’t. Maybe no one can.
With Bynum at the 5 and Pau at the 4, this leaves Odom to play small forward. Odom is not a perimiter player, and he’s going to be sorely left out (as QD also pointed out). With $13.2 million left on his contract and one year remaining after this season, he’s going to be very attractive for salary cap relief for other teams. For me, names like Szczerbiak, Stojakovic, and Nocioni come to mind in trade…
LawyerBoy, earlier you mentioned that the Lakers give up their future by giving away Crittenton and Marc Gasol– they have an opportunity in Odom to re-energize this team in the post-season. I think they have a solid opportunity to move Odom and bring in a solid contract along with some junk.
LawerBoy, while I agree with you that this move by LA was one to help them out now and not later, you can’t fully assume that their window is only two seasons. I only say that because, as with this recent move, it seems to becoming a habit for below-average teams to give up their best pieces for nothing. Three teams have now been gutted in less than a year (Seattle, Minnesota, Memphis) all to benefit franchises that have already experienced more than their fair share of success (Boston, LA). It’s hard for me not to think something fishy is going on here. Almost like a Lakers vs Celtics finals is being prepped by the string holders. Memphis giving away their best player to a team in their conference? And what did they get for it?
Face it, Chicago had more to offer them and it would’ve been a smarter move for their team considering they’d be strengthening an eastern conference team they’d only see twice a season.
Damn this league is becoming more and more like the WWF. Just gotta keep the story going I guess.
I know I’m not the only one here that is worried about the whistles the Pistons will get if they face Boston in the ECF. We might not talk about, but it’s been in the back of my mind all season. Hopefully I’m just paranoid, I really do hope that’s the case beacuse I agree with LawerBoy, if Shaq and Kobe could barely tread water against Detroit, how do people expect this Laker unit to be any different. Besides, that team still lacks a leader. Kobe, for all of his talent, will never be remembered like Larry, Magic, and Micheal because he chooses to act like a spoiled little bitch all the time. Anyone who claims to love Kobe and not his game has got some serious denial and tunnel vision issues they need to resolve.
All things said and done, this move won’t make the Lakers the best team in the west, it will just make them the media favorite. Huge difference people, HUGE difference.
Now Bill Walton has two teams to drool over. I might have to have my cable provider block ESPN now, sheeesh.
I think Detroit should strongly think about signing Kwame next year. What’s that? I’m crazy, you say? Hear me out…
Look at Antonio Gates. And Tony Gonzalez. Mediocre (at best) college players. Dominant NFL players. Kwame is built like a tank. Has decent speed. Yes, he has small hands but a football is much smaller than a basketball. And he won’t be battling seven footers to catch it.
Oh, did you think I meant the Pistons?
QD, while I see why signing Kwame might look good on paper, he’s shown over his career that he has a pathetic work ethic and doesn’t take well to constructive criticism. I’d rather acquire a younger big thatmay lack his size, but makes up for with hard work. Kwame reminds me of that donkey from Winnie the Pooh.
WLM1, you missed QD’s joke.
Hilarious, Darshan!
You’re right, walked into that one back first. I love the DBB community, always there to humble me. Thanks Mike!
I don’t beleive the Gasol deal does to much for LA. I agree that LA now (probably) has the most exciting five names starting, but adding Gasol, a 26% shooter from behind the arc (ok 50+% from inside) doen’t help a lot, Odom (a lousy perimeter shooter) will probably have to move to SF and he is not a great perimeter defender, teams like PHX, DEN, SAS, NO and PDX are going to be able to spread the floor and open holes in this LA defense, then when the defense spreads out, your going to see the Chris Paul’s, Baron Davis’, AI’s, Nash’s, Parker’s and Ginobli’s slice and dice into the paint, I don’t think LA is going to be quick enough to recover/help, that leaves fouling, and as mentioned by LB (I believe) LA gots no depth! Please someone explain to me where I may be wrong…
I think I’ll just wait ’til Gasol has played at least ONE game with the Lakers before I comment on this issue again.