When dismissing a rumor that his Mavericks were interested in Jason Kidd, Mark Cuban said last week that “the deals that do get done are always the ones you have heard nothing about.” Yeah, that sounds about right.
The Heat were one and done not only as champs but also contenders: they’re literally went from first to worst in less than two seasons. Shaq’s fall from grace has been embarrassingly steep, and I never thought that any team out there would be silly enough to relieve Miami of their financial burden ($20 million this year, $40 million the next two), let alone have it be a contender like Phoenix, who now faces the prospects of completely overhauling their run-and-gun offense on the fly while not letting Kobe and Pau eat into their two and a half game cushion in the Pacific.
Shaq is either already in Phoenix or en route to take a physical, at which point we’ll find out for sure if the Suns give this trade a thumbs up or down. But Pat Riley, Dwyane Wade and the rest of the Heat are in Detroit, where they’re scheduled to take on the Pistons (and a bevy of reporters) tonight. Needless to say, it should be interesting.
Putting a Detroit-centric view of this trade, if by chance Shawn Marion does rejuvenate the Heat into making a push for the seventh or eighth seed (which, at 10 games back, is extremely, extremely unlikely), there’s a good chance they’d run into the Pistons in the first round.
More realistically, though, Miami’s resurgence will come next summer, at which point they’ll have the salary cap space to go after a big name free agent to go along with Wade and a top lottery pick. Simply put, by removing themselves of Shaq’s salary, they’ve slipped their rebuilding plan into fifth gear.
I am not understanding why the Suns would want Shaq in their run-and-gun offense. And giving up Marion I think is just plain stupid. For sure this trade is in Miami’s favor. Maybe PHX is going to try to trade Shaq in the off season, I dont know. I am confused. At least we got a better player in the East now for All-Star games.
to me, this is extremely similar to the GS/Webber thing. But they got Webber for nothing, PHX is giving away their third best player. How does this not make them worse?
Well Amare can play a better position now PF but with Shaq in limited minutes Amare would still have to slide over and play C for some minutes of the game. Marion will opt out after this season and maybe D-Town will be able to reel him in. Oh well I dont see how this affects us really because we wont see Miami in the playoffs so we dont need to worry about Marion there and I am picking L.A. (given Bynum comes back) or New Orleans in the final against us.
This is why you keep the Colangelos of the world in your front office. Is David Stern forcing the Suns to help out his Pookie? If this were fantasy basketball, all the other teams would protest the commissioner. Wow.
By my lights, the Heat would have to finish 26-11 to make the playoffs. If they had Mourning to fill in at Center, I’d give them a shot, but I’m almost positive they lack the juice. Wade/Marion represents a pretty nice nucleus, though.
On ESPN, there is talk of how he will be an important defensive presence for the Suns, but will not have much of an offensive impact. I disagree with that assessment. I think that he will fit in well offensively but that Phoenix just suffered on the defensive end. When the Suns run the fast break, they don’t need to have five guys running. Shaq can inbound to Nash or rebound and throw an outlet pass and Nash, Barbosa, Hill and Bell can take care of the rest. Where Shaq helps them is getting high-percentage shots in the halfcourt sets, where the Suns struggle at times. Defensively, however, Phoenix just traded their best defender for a big, slow center who can’t really jump to contest shots. Phoenix’s best perimeter defender is now Raja, who is overrated just because he once pissed of Kobe and took him off his game. If they face San Anton in the playoffs it will be brutal. Nobody will be able to stay in front of Parker or Manu and they can just put up floaters over Shaq. Oh, the Suns have to keep playing Amare on defense. And defensively, Amare. Is. Just. Awful.
Phoenix takes Steve Kerr out of the broadcast booth and makes him GM. They literally give away players (kurt thomas) and literally give away draft choices for money.
Now, they will bring in Shaq and pay him like $20 million and lose Marion
I am very confused and also very grateful that our GM is Joe Dumars.
what the hell is going on in the league right now? the lakers get pau for a box of chiclets. golden state picks up the worst possible fit for them in the league. and now phx is going to trade shawn marion for shaq? do they hate winning that much?
add in the lopsided trade that brought kg to boston and this has been the year of the one-sided deal. this is a good quick indicator of who has a good gm and who does not.
Although Dumars didn’t get into specifics, I remember over the summer that Kerr had asked for 2+ starters from Detroit for Marion. GMs are idiots. They ask for way too much, then suddenly realize they have ZERO leverage and panic. You know Gasol would have fit nicely in Phoenix… where was Kerr then? Now this is the back up plan? The only reason this pisses me off is that Miami is totally let off the hook for selling their soul to win a championship. Now that the devil is knocking on their door, here comes Kerr to step in and offer Phoenix’s soul instead. Why?!?! Idiot.
Does anyone penalize stupidity anymore?
Miami gorges on overpaid veterans, wins a title and is suddenly rescued from years of cap hell. Ainge screws up the Celtics but is rescued by his buddy McHale, longtime posterboy for incompetence. Phoenix “trades” players away for zero but suddenly finds they can afford Shaq. And Kevin Pritchard is acclaimed a genius in Portland because years of lunacy have dumped lottery picks and expiring mega-contracts in his lap.
Stupid is the new smart. God help us all.
My original reaction to this proposal is the same as almost everyone else’s. Then I read a few different reactions,and started to think about what phoenix gains. And it isn’t much. A busted up 36 year old who can’t get up and down the floor. But he has 4 rings. And a ton of respect from other players. And some serious motivation against the spurs and lakers. Marion probably would’ve opted out this summer. The suns as currently built wouldn’t have won this year. So Kerr takes a major gamble and hopes that Nash revitalizes shaq’s game and gets rid of banks bad contract. Way too often, I’m critical of teams not making moves, so who am I to criticize? I don’t think this makes them much better, but I do think that Diaw and Hill can make up most of Marion’s stats. And another all star in the east….
This move makes perfect sense, at least demographically. Older Americans traditionally retired in Florida, with Miami and Orlando being particularly favored. But this has shifted in recent years, with Arizona, particularly Phoenix, being the hot spot for the gray hairs. So it makes sense that Hill and Shaq are headin’ West…
Ouch. You can’t lump Grant Hill with Shaq — Hill actually still has some game left.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3MNU8-_Kiw8
Awwww yeah.
(What can I say? I still like Grant Hill even though a lot of Pistons fans don’t)
I like what people are saying here, well thought out!!! The whole point of a solid big man presence in the interior is so he can get you rebounds, especially offensive rebounds, what is the point of having someone like Shaq whom will probably need a Electric Scooter more than C-Webb would, you get NOTHING.
True Marion would have probably left after his deal so the Suns were afraid of getting nothing but DAM, you just dug your self a nice large whole, have fun falling.
As far as Marion coming to the D, yea right, you really think Tey would be shown the door?
I think Joe should go after Artest or J. O’Neal seeing that this is the year of the one sided deal. I really think for us to survive the ECF and the Finals we need interior presence, we cant be a jump shooting team.
Shaq is done. Even if he gets healthy(and lets not forget IN SHAPE) he’s not getting younger. Best case scenario is that he comes in off the bench for 20 minutes a game and dominates. He MIGHT… MIGHT… MIIIIIGHT be able to do that. And you’re OK with paying $20 million/yr for that???
I’d rather make a run with Marion this year and wave goodbye this summer than tie a $40 million anchor around my neck. Really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really stupid.
I predict A) Phoenix doesn’t make the playoffs this year or next year and B) that Kerr will be fired before the end of next season.
Boian,
If we can’t get a championship this season, I would consider a move involving Marion and Tayshaun. But Artest or J. O’Neal? That’s insane.
Yeah, Artest is great at both ends of the floor. He’s also a terrible human being. Terrible. I don’t think Davidson would ever consider paying that man’s salary. As I’ve said before, its one thing to be a Bad Boy, yet its something else just to be a bad person. In the past 4 seasons, how many games has Artest missed just because he’s an asshole? In this case, being an asshole is worse than being injury prone. Which leads me to…
…Jermaine O’Neal. Jermaine NO’thank you. How many games has he missed in the last 4 seasons? How many players has Dumars added to our team that are injury prone?
And as for an inside presence, we have it when we really need it. We’ve got everything we need to win a championship right now. Over Boston, over LA, over San Antonio. This is the squad.
This is the dumbest trade Kerr could make. He completely let Riles of the hook. That said, as an NBA fan, D-Wade, Marion, and a lottery pick will be fun to watch.
Until the Suns reach an NBA Finals, I don’t care about any news out of Phoenix. Every year this team builds itself a good record and is knocked out of the playoffs when the games slow down. Because of that, this Shaq trade isn’t necessarily a bad idea if the current system they have hasn’t took them where they want to go.
Mike, I don’t think much of Ron Artest, but if I heard we traded for him, I’ll be honest, I wouldn’t be upset. Problem is, that will NEVER happen. I agree, this squad has what it takes to get #4.
I would be pissed if we got Artest. But I dont have to worry about that because it would never happen. As for Tayshaun for Marion, I think it would be good. Dont get me wrong, I love Tay but Marion is just as good and Tay has been very inconsistent as of late. The only thing I dont like about Marion is his ugly ass shot. Its as bad as Bill Cartwrights from back in the day.
I cannot wait until Shaq gets into the broadcast booth, so if a running team helps to wear him out, then so much the better. What could be better than the Diesel’s low, rumbling voice alongside Charles Barkley. I’d tell you who didn’t get kicked out of Barkley’s Five, but you’ve already guessed. It’s time, Shaq. Retire, join your brethern in the booth.
Mike, I guess you are right, so here is what I want then,…
I want to see more Herrmann and Amir.
I want Sheed to stop shooting 3’s and post up.
Tay has to be more of offensive weapon, no doubt he can be.
Dyess has to give up some mins, I think he is playing way too many.
Trade either or Flip/Primos, get something good, that we can use either now, or in the future (draft picks)!
Hire Jarvis a shooting coach to teach him consistency, imagine that.
And a Ship baby!!! Now really, is that too much to ask for!!!
Apparently I’m the only guy who likes this move for BOTH teams. Phoenix just shifted Amare to power forward as it acquires one of the game’s few true centers. Phoenix hasn’t gotten “over the hump” with this core, and it was only going to get harder with the Lakers’ trade AND the way the West has played out this year thus far. They needed to make a change and this change emphasizes defense, which wins championships if Super Bowl XLII is any indication. As for the extra two seasons and $40 million total that Shaq is owed, hardly the end of the world with their awesome squad. No one important is a free agent (besides Hill who only signed a one year deal at league minimum anyway) until the 2010 offseason. Also, the Suns now have only 12 men on their roster, which gives them extra flexibility.
Everyone out here in LA was making such a big fuss about how Odom, Gasol, and Bynum are 6′10″, 7′0″ and 7′0″ respectively. That’s a downright nasty imposing frontline in terms of height. Now Phoenix’s frontline sits at 6′8″, 6″10, 7′1″ (Hill, Amare, Shaq), which is a vast improvement in size from 6′8″, 6′7″, 6′10″ (Hill, Marion, Amare). It may not rival the Lakers’ size but it can now be competitive with them defensively. I’m from the camp (and I’m not saying I’ve been proven to be correct), that Gasol has great skills, but is totally soft. This move directly challenges Gasol’s (purported) softness.
Granted, Shaq is no longer the dominant force he once was, I think Amare will benefit greatly on the defensive end from not having to be the entire interior for Phoenix. Despite being situated at power forward, everyone knows the 6′7″ Marion was strong, but much more of a perimeter, take the ball out of your hands, defender (as opposed to send it back in your face or into the 4th row or alter your shot from directly underneath the basket).
Everyone knows that Amare can handle himself on the offensive end. He doesn’t NEED Marion’s help. I imagine that Hill and Bell (not to mention Nash as floor general) are talented enough to make that transition pretty seamless. This team still has Barbosa coming off the bench too. It does lack a serious PG backup to Nash now, but the Lake show has no backup to Kobe (Vujacic, really? He can change his hairstyle from long to short to long all he wants, his game still hasn’t changed from sucking) and that’s never been a problem for the Lakers.
Boian: Marion would be our sixth man. We respect loyalty and “time served” (is there a more eloquent way to say how long you’ve been a model teammate with the squad?) in Detroit. If Marion didn’t want to come off the bench, he wouldn’t be coming here, because he’d be told that from the get-go. My guess is, it’s not a match made in heaven. Long story short, I’m not holding my breath until we get Marion next season.
Well, I politely disagree. Shaq still shoots under .500 from the stripe. He’s fouled out of more games this year than any other season he’s played. And why? He’s not moving his feet into position, because he’s lazy, injured, out of shape, or all of the above. He’s going through a divorce so his head isn’t into basketball.
As far as Miami’s concerned this is the greatest thing since sliced bread. They just swindled someone into taking over payments for their beat up, broke down jalopy.
right now, somewhere, Kobe is laughing so hard it’s making him pee a little.
LawyerBoy,
If Marions came to Detroit I can guarantee he wouldnt be coming off the bench with the amount of money he would demand after this season. I could see Tay coming off the bench with McDyess next year and Maxiell taking over starting PF.
PG-Stuckey
SG-Afflalo
SF-Prince
PF-McDyess
C-Who knows? Johnson, Samb
That would actually compete against some starting 5 right now.
I wonder if Shaq’s number will shoot up just because he’ll enjoy playing basketball again? I mean, wouldn’t you find it hard to get up for a game if your teammates were Earl Barron, Mark Blount, Ricky Davis, Smuch Parker, Luke Jackson, Chris Quinn, and Dorell Wright? With better players around him, perhaps he’ll just be more into it and we’ll catch a glimpse of old skool Shaq. Well, not skinny-running-the-floor-Shaq, but fat Shaq who can still get rebounds and dunks.
This whole damn Suns acquiring Shaq topic is nothing more than a headline to talk about. Anyone criticising Phoenix for making this move need to ask themselves, well, what is it that the Suns have squandered? Their championship hopes? HA HA HA HA! They’ve never had any to begin with! Anyone praising the Suns for making this move needs their head examined. And anyone wasting their time having fantasy discussions about Tay being traded for Marion needs a smack upside their cranium.
As for the Pistons game tonight against the Heat, I’m looking for Stuckey to have a good game, as well as Rip to shoot a strong percentage and bust out of this two-game funk he’s in. Sheed should also be able to have his way down low if he so chooses. Either way, the bench should get some good minutes tonight.
Hey everyone. Check it out:
——-
Kapono will attempt to become the first back-to-back winner of the Foot Locker Three-Point Shootout since Peja Stojakovic won the 2002 and 2003 titles. Stojakovic will return to the competition representing the hometown New Orleans Hornets for the first time since finishing as runner-up in the 2004 competition. Stojakovic and Kapono will be joined by Western Conference starter and 10-time All-Star Kobe Bryant of the Los Angeles Lakers, Daniel Gibson of the Cleveland Cavaliers, Richard Hamilton of the Detroit Pistons and two-time MVP Steve Nash of the Phoenix Suns.
———–
Pretty sweet that Rip will represent, but that is some tough competition. Man I hope Boobie gets knocked out in the first round.
Bang that tramp, Rip!
LB, I must agree, I think this move actually makes PHX more lethal offensively, defensively they are not hurt because no one in PHX can spell defense (trust me, I live here, it is painful to watch, but when the Pistons are not playing, I gotta get my BBAll fix somewhere.) I think this also allows PHX to run a few more “faster” plays without having to wonder where a rebound is going to come from, when the Suns set up in the half court offense, Nash or Hill will pretty much be wide open or 1 on 1 on the perimeter, I mean, would you leave Shaq alone on the block? As I mentioned before, LA hasn’t in my opinion, gained a lot, Odom isn’t a defensive stopper, Gasol is not aggressive defensively, Bynum seems lost defensively sometimes (although I don’t watch LA a lot, so I could be wrong), seems to me, that spreading the floor will open signifcant holes in LA’s defense (even when they try zone), and with those bigs, I don’t beleive they will be quick enough to recover/help, I see LA giving up a ton of points in the paint, and if the defense collapses, Odom isn’t athletic enough to cover most (if any) SF’s. I see PHX now as the team to beat in the West, LA will make the playoffs, but I don’t think they will get to the WCF.
My western conference aspirations:
The Golden State Warriors make it into the playoffs and peak, sinking most of their three’s, carrying them into a series against Detroit in the Finals.
Point is, I don’t think there is a “team to beat” right now out west. Sure, Phoenix has the best record at the moment, but it wouldn’t be the first time. San Antonio, Dallas, and now possibly the Lakers, are the three teams I see with the best chances of making it to the Finals. Although I was partially joking, if Golden State is shooting a high percentage from behind the 3-point arc, they can beat any team in that conference.
So, Rip vs Kobe it is. IMO, neither of them win the contest, but hopefully Rip sinks more than Kobe, gives me a reason to degrade all of the Lakers fans I know.
I dunno, I kinda like this potential trade. I would hope that moving Marion for Shaq would help fix Phoenixs supposed chemistry problems and if Nash cant increase Shaqs production then nobody can.
While Marion might only make Miami marginally better they at least get out from under Shaqs huge contract.
No matter what you think of the trade its gonna be damn interesting to see how it turns out.
Fel,
I agree 100%. At the very least, I comemnd Kerr for livening up the headlines in the NBA right now and giving me something else to talk about in LA besides their acquisition of Gasol. I’m anxious to see how it works for the Suns and Heat.
I don’t think there is any team in the league that is the subject of more myth than the Suns.
The Suns were not a bad defensive team relative to the pace at which they play. After this trade, they certainly are now a bad defensive team.
I think the notion that they couldn’t win a championship is nonsense. They have been a top three team in the WCfor the last three years. If you assume that they were equal to their Top 3 cohorts, that gives them a 70% chance of reaching the finals once in those three years. When you remember that they played one of those seasons without Amare Stoudemire, that percentage drops to the low 60s.
It is very possible that they simply got the wrong end of the luck stick, especially when you consider the ejection situation against the Spurs last year. To take a lesser player out of desperation was completely unwarranted.
SERIOUSLY what have you been smokin man. Artest… O’neal. As i said yesterday remember Ron punching pistons fans. yeah I think we should go get him! Ron’s buddy in that little fun time.. O’neal. Jermaine is a great player but there is no way you trade your star to someone in the same league, let alone division.
The shaq deal is such a win for Miami its not even funny. Get rid of bad contract and old attitude problem. In return get one of the best all around players. As for the suns they weren’t going to win it as constituted and shaq isnt that bad of a gamble. I’m sure Diesel is happy to get a shot at a fifth ring and is just the shot in the arm he needs to turn it around. Although I think those who pointed out that this is the year of one-sided deals are right. What the grizz got for Gasol is criminal. And I can’t believe they only got shaq and rid of banks for marion.
This has been an interesting discussion, I’m kinda with LawyerBoy, but I’ll offer a simpler analysis. Basically, the two teams are swapping damaged goods. Both teams add by subtracting. Yes, Marion right now is by far the better talent, but bad for chemistry. This much has been well documented. Shaq I think is done, but maybe can be effective if he gets in 12-15 min a night. He’s sure not playing 30 anymore.
There is this sentiment that the Suns do ok financially, they are swapping contracts, but Shaq is the more marketable player. That’s the reason why Sarver okayed the deal.
Still, I think it looks like (right now) the Lakers coming out of the West. The West still goes through SA, AFAIAC. There’s been a lot of discussion about bad GMs in this thread, but I want to know how Chris Wallace got another job after destroying the Celts. It’s kind of like Matt Millen running another NFL club after he eventually, like in 2017, gets canned from the Lions.
I wonder how a Flip Murray/Primoz Brezec trade for maybe Al Harrington deal would work out. I dont think it would, just thinking about how much I would like Al Harrington on our team. Primoz cant be traded until after Feb. 14th anyways.
“I wonder how a Flip Murray/Primoz Brezec trade for maybe Al Harrington deal would work out.”
Hey, throw in a couple of second rounders and trade for LeBron.
Of course, LawyerBoy will post a comment about how he doesn’t see how that trade helps us because LeBron doesn’t have a ring and doesn’t play great defense… :p
“Yes, Marion right now is by far the better talent, but bad for chemistry. This much has been well documented. ”
Has it had a documented effect on the basketball court? And if two players with complimentary games couldn’t gel, how will two stars with similar games (and positions) co-exist, especially when one has a checkered past in this arena?
As for Shaq somehow being rejuvenated, that’s not going to fix his hip, his legs, or his weight problem.