Dan Gilbert’s desire to transform the Cavs into the Pistons knows no end.
From KC Johnson of the Chicago Tribune:
The Ben Wallace era in Chicago has come to an end.
A little more than one and a half seasons after Bulls general manager John Paxson and then-coach Scott Skiles made a splash by signing Wallace away from the Detroit Pistons for $60 million over four years, the center was traded along with Joe Smith to Cleveland for Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden. The Cavs also included Cedric Simmons to make the money work under the salary cap.
“I had a good time here,” Wallace said Thursday. “I enjoyed being one of the guys. And I had a good season last year.”
What was left unsaid: “… but I’ve been horrible this year and will only continue to get worse.” The full deal:
The report said Wallace would go to the Cavaliers along with guard Wally Szczerbiak, forward Joe Smith and guard Delonte West in a deal which was completed right before the league’s 3 p.m. EST trade deadline.
According to ESPN, the Bulls would receive guard Larry Hughes, forward Drew Gooden and forward Cedric Simmons while the Seattle SuperSonics would get guard Chris Duhon and forwards Ira Newble and Donyell Marshall.
Holy $#@%!
i’m scared
Primoz Brezec traded for Juan Dixon! Minor move, but he’s a shooter…
Ben Wallace-Larry Huges . . . trash for trash.
*Hughtes
*forget it
hahaha keyboard fail.
trying to figure out the trade from Cleveland’s perspective - but it does not make too much sense. I can understand why they want Wally, but with Ben in the game teams can more or less leave him alone and doubel up on James.
Am I missing something?
Paxon should be fired. Wallace is better than Gooden, Hughes is worthless (Szczerbiak is an upgrade!). The Cavs just got a lot better and the Bulls just got a lot worse.
Looks to me like both Cleveland and Chicago managed to make themselves worse with this deal. I really don’t understand it, but I’m laughing, so at least those clubs are entertaining in that sense.
What a perplexing deal. There’s no way Ben starts over Big Z.
MrMonday, my guess would be Ben @ 4, Z @ the 5.
Not sure why Cleveland was always in such a hurry to get rid of Goody. Seemed to be a pretty solid pf and good teammate. Like Serb on the cavs, can do for them what jones/marshall/hughes couldn’t. Why chicago? Sure, dump ben’s salary. Pick up Huges salary? I think both GM’s just trying to save face and their jobs after the western conference ate up all the good players on the block. I just don’t see how this makes Chicago any better, except for clearing up some front court space for noah/thomas. Ugly trade
so the starting five would be:
gibson, wally, lbj, ben, and big z?
that hardly makes me quake.
1-2: Gibson, West, Snow
3: LeBron
4: Ben
5: Z
Bench: Wally World, Joe Smith, Sideshow Bob, Devin Brown, Damon Jones, Sasha, somethinglikethat?
i officially have to smash my ben wallace talking bobblehead. first a bull, now a cleveland lebron? how depressing.
I think it makes them better. Ben isnt dead, so he’ll grab a few rebounds. Wally, and West can shoot. Joe Smith can still play. I think they are better.
Joe Smith and Delonte West are fairly useful players, and Wally Z may be able to take some scoring pressure off LeBron, but I don’t see how this addresses Cleveland’s weakness, which was the crappiest backcourt in the NBA. I always felt their frontcourt was fairly underrated by most people and that their major trouble was that they were giving living corpses like Eric Snow playing time. West probably takes some time from him, and I think he can probably be a solid backup, but the fact that he was unable to wrest the PG spot from the mighty Earl Watson seems somewhat telling, at least regarding his play this year. Big Ben hasn’t shown that he has much gas left defensively, and he’s been as bad offensively as he’s ever been. Cavs are going to have to go 4 on 5 (and 3 on 5 with Snow on the court) on offense a lot, methinks.
CLE got better with this deal, simply for the that they added a big man who actually plays as a big man. Donyell Marshall was a very weak power forward, and adding Ben and Joe Smith they now can run a legit 4 big man rotation. Ben is a shell of his former self, and he will not be able to stop anyone, so their defensive ability stays about the same on the block..
plus, CLE doesn’t know how Ben tanks it against Detroit. Joe Smith has killed Detroit this year as well… defensively, the guards get bigger BUT Wally is not known as a defensive stopper and watching him chase Rip around screens is going to be fun.
Ben going to Cleveland also makes me wonder how much longer Mike Brown is going to keep his job? Also not too sure how much easier the game is going to be for LBJ after this. Prediction for next year: Ben to indy for J’oneal. Then, Ben to the Bucks for Gadzuric.
Brown just got an extension this season, I think.
It’s like Cleveland did this just to feel like a big-shot, Western Conference team. Joe Smith’s alright; he actually led the Bulls in scoring in a couple of games (which might say more about the Bulls problems than Smith’s ability).
March 19th, March 29th, and April 16th. Mark those dates down. Detroit has 3 games left against Cleveland. By the end of March, Cleveland should have some sense of how to work this group, and that middle game should be interesting for both clubs.
Honestly, I swear Ben is still on Detroit’s payroll. First, he helped destroy the Bulls from a potential contender to a franchise in crisis. Now he’s going to Cleveland. I love it. I absolutely love it.
I can’t see Ben Wallace playing the Power Forward position. That’s a scoring and low post position, and Ben isn’t known for either of those, only for rebounding and the occasional block.
Plus it makes the #27 free-throw shooting team a definite lock to finish #30.
The biggest addition for the Cavs might be Joe Smith. He can play decent.
SO,BEN,HOWS THAT- “SCREW DETROIT I’M GOING TO CHICAGO AND WIN MORE ‘SHIPS WITH THEIR YOUNG CORE” THIG WORKING OUT FOR YOU?
THIG?= THING
Mike Payne, all those people in Cleveland have gotta be wondering about Dan Gilbert’s motives as an owner.
The Cavs will miss Gooden, but got a lot of pieces in this trade. Wallace and Ilgauskas play few enough minutes to alternate at the position with Wallace playing a little bit of 4. Sczerbiak is a nice add, and Wallace does a lot of the things Gooden did. So it’s basically a three for one, and though the one is historically the most talented player.
The biggest problem for the Cavs, though, was the fact that they has a loaded front line with no backcourt. This exacerbates the problem, unless they are sticking Wally at the two or something. Cleveland got marginally better, but unless they catch Orlando, it’s a moot point.
this just made the cavs crazy if u ask me i mean now they have ben n zzzzzzzzz up front with james n Sczerbiak with west at point(whos better than Gibson) look out for the cavs in the east
but pistons are still gonnna be champions soo it doesnt matter
DEEEEEETROITT BASSSSKEEETTBALLLLLL
foshoooooo
I feel like Rip Van Winkle and shit. Ben Wallace on the Cavs? Where am I?
Oh for the love of god if we get bounced by Cleveland in the semis this year, I think Im gonna throw up. Honestly I think Orlando, Cleveland and Boston are all a problem for us now….
In terms of concern
1. Cavs
2. Celtics
3. Magic ( I know a lot of people think we can handle them, but Detroit take teams like them lightly and they could end up being this year’s Cavs or Heat like the last 2 years).
Come on Detroit wake up, the time is now!
Ben Wallace does a lot of the things Drew Gooden did? He can shoot a 15 footer on the baseline? Wow, Ben has improved since he left…
With the trade of Brezec, that means only one thing… Sauce’s nightmare is going to continue as Amir Johnson will continue to see PT as the 4th big man
Interesting deal. Both teams are tying to add by subtracting, except I’m not seeing how this improves either the Cavs or the Bulls. Between Gooden, Ben, Wally, Donyell and Hughes, I maybe would want Ben on my team, I know I’m not winning anything with any of the others.
I mean, you see Joe D. trading for any of these guys? I thought so. Next!
I think this deal is a big flaming mess for Cleveland. Ben will inject some life into them, they’ll be a little plucky for a while. But let’s be honest, they’re going as far as LeBron can take them. This “upgraded” supporting cast is essentially the same. Wally’s more useful to them than Ben. I really fail to see how Ben is going to help them in any way. He’s a redundant part who honestly might be a downgrade from Gooden at this point. He isn’t going to be able to provide the things that Varajoke did last year. And, congratulations Danny Ferry, you managed to unload Larry Hughes’ albatross of a contract but you some how took on an even worse one? Baffling.
Boney I am PISSED that I have to see more Amir, I mean the guy just flat out can’t ball like Dale Davis could, you know something about grizzly bears and slappin’ some honey on Dale or whatever.
Anyway, they’re gonna have to start Ben for more than just reason of salary-size. He is a player that can’t be brought off the bench or played late in quarters, for in-the-penalty-put-him-on-the-line reasons.
Other Matt, Wallace’s contract isn’t as bad as Hughes’. Wallace’s contract was front loaded, so the back end years of the deal aren’t so terrible (still bad, but not as bad).
Ben will fit in with Varejao though. Since Ben has left Rasheed’s side in Detroit, he has become a bit of a flopper himself. Before, I can’t remember a time when I saw Ben flop until he put on the black and red in Chicago.
This isn’t a good trade for CLE, it’s just names on a paper basically. Those guys are more recognizable names than Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, etc… Wally World has had the same problem as Hughes with staying healthy.
didn’t the Cavaliers have a Wally clone a few years back? drafted him in the top 10 from Oregon… Luke Jackson? Both have had back problems… both are “specialists”…
CLE is a team full of “specialists”, noone except LeBron is a true player.
I dunno, Boney. I know Ben’s contract was front-loaded, but it’s worth $14.5 million next year and $14 million in 2009-10. Hughes is $12.8 and $13 million, I think. I’d kind of rather have Hughes at this point. He can at least score. Ben is a guy who always relied on being a better athlete than everybody else, and I’d almost certainly rather have Larry at $13 than Ben at $14 two years from now.
ehh, Larry has escalators in his contract that could make it worse… you’re right though
wow, hate much, folks?
even matt descends into the gutter to take a pot-shot at ben, long after he’s left detroit.
get over it.
and since you seem to have forgotten: this team would not have won a ’ship in ‘04 without him.
so consider choking back the stale bile and showing some goddamm respect for a guy who earned everything he ever got, the hard way. how many of you can say that. ?
geeze.
i don’t see him starting in cleveland, but the trade makes that team better than it is today.
Yeah, I dunno Boney. The question of who you’d rather have for approximately a zillion dollars too much is like asking whether you’d like to die by being shot or strangled. Either way you’re still dead. (I stole that line from the BlogABull comment thread which is high, high comedy if you get the time to scroll through it)
This puts Ben in the position of having to prove himself again, which is perhaps the only thing that would motivate him after he just got paid. Pride has always been what made Ben tick, it’s what made him leave Detroit, and it’s what might make him a solid contributer in Cleveland. Cleveland needed a shooter, and if Wally stays healthy, he can be clutch. Seems like giving up Gooden is giving up a decent complement to Lebron, though. Any move can revitalize a team, but it’s 50/50 whether this works.
I don’t know. I’m a little worried about the Cavs inside right now. Rasheeds reluctance to bang combined w/ our of lack of interior size coupled w/ Snow’s manhandling’ of Chauncey the past two playoffs has me a bit worried about the Cavs now.
We can’ live & die by the jumper & expect to advance. Bad enuff we have no coach. (oops.)
ttp://think.mtv.com/044FDFFFF 00989EBD00170098D44
G,
I see your point and I sincerely thank and give Ben respect for the time he was here…but that was then. when he left, he turned his back on this organization, his teammates/friends, and most importantly every single Pistons fan who loved him by jetting for chicago. So thanks again Ben, we loved you when you were here and you were our most popular player..but what you did to everyone back here warrants every single boo, jeer, and potshot you have coming. Good luck in cleveland big ben has-been
“But let’s be honest, they’re going as far as LeBron can take them. This “upgraded” supporting cast is essentially the same.”
Well, LeBron took them to the finals last year. This cast isn’t quite the same. They are assuredly going with Wally at the two, West is a servicable PG, kinda, and Joe Smith is very underrated player. On those grounds the trades are pretty even. If Ben Wallace can do what he did just last year, this trade make the Cavs substantially better.
Go Magic!
I’m not going to hate on Ben. He got what he wanted and deserved, a big contract, it just happened to be with someone else. Also, that big contact made it less likely Chicago will be a contender anytime soon.
As any player will tell you, or any GM, it’s a business. True, he was not only the face of the franchise, but the face of the renaissance of the franchise. He could have taken less money and Stuckey’d be wearing another number. And we might be gunning for 50Ws instead of 60.
Which reminds me, what is it about Joe D that makes other GMs do utterly retarded things, or make moves like this one, which isn’t a lot more than rearranging the furniture?
I think people are making a mistake by focusing on Ben Wallace. The real keys are the other players the Cavs added. Joe Smith has been putting up 17/7 for the Bulls the past month. He is right now better than Gooden. It’s hard to appreciate how bad Gooden is unless you watch him night in and night out. He plays no D, is the dumbest guy on the court at all times, and is wildly inconsistent. He has a nice shooting touch for a big, but the Cavs could never play him in crunch time since he was such a mental and defensive liability. He is the big man equivalent to Ricky Davis. A guy who puts up solid stats, but doesn’t help you win games.
Hughes was clearly not working out with the Cavs. Cleveland will only miss his defense, but will welcome Wally’s good outside shooting.
Toss in Delonte West who is more of a legit PG than anything the Cavs have had in years and Cleveland is sitting pretty after this trade. Oh yeah, they added a 2nd rounder and lost no future flexibility.
If Wallace can rekindle a little passion and give the Cavs 25 minutes of energy and D, it’s gravy.
Wow, I cant believe so many people are thinking the Cavs are better with Ben. He is nothing but a shell of his former self. Primoz is better than him now a days. Ben would make a pretty decent back-up to Big Z though. If he was always mad about not getting enough touches with Detroit and Chicago then he really is never going to get the ball with James on his team. What a wash. Dumbass sellout should have stayed in Detroit.
No Pippen for the Jordan that I can see. Not even a Rodman. All I see are B.J. Armstrongs. Sounds like they made a trade to keep LeBron happy for less than one year.
The Cavs turned Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, and four pieces of garbage into four starting caliber players. They finally have a decent, scrappy point guard who can shoot. Wally makes their offense a lot scarier than Hughes did and LeBron can keep him in line. When Ben plays with energy, he’s great. Think he may have something to prove? And Joe Smith effectively replaces Gooden. And they didn’t have to give up Gibson? Obscenities.
They worry me.
Kevin S, my point which probably got lost in all the rambling was that I don’t think this trade makes them more or less likely to make the Finals than they were before. They can’t really play Ben and Varajoke together. They can’t play Ben and Joe Smith together. They can’t play Ben and Snow together. I kind of like Delonte West, but he hasn’t been able to take minutes away from Earl Watson, which I’d be a little concerned about if I was a Cavs fan.
If I were a Cavs fan, I’d be nervous with Wally matching up defensively with either Rip or Tay, or Pierce or Allen. I like Wally with Gibson because they’re both good shooters and he minimizes their chances of the supporting cast having an “off night”. Joe Smith has outperformed Gooden this year, but recent history suggests that might not last for another 40-50 games. I don’t see how Ben stays with McDyess or Rasheed, or KG over a 7 game series at this point in his career.
So, I’m kind of puzzled. There may be the whole “addition by subtraction” factor at play, but I don’t think this really improves them as much as everyone seems to think it does.
“Which reminds me, what is it about Joe D that makes other GMs do utterly retarded things, or make moves like this one, which isn’t a lot more than rearranging the furniture?”
Job security. Dumars doesn’t need to panic because he’ll be back year after year. Thus, he doesn’t have to make a ridiculous move in the hope that it will somehow work. Most GMs have a couple of years to make a difference. If it doesn’t work, they are fired, and don’t have to worry about the gigantic mess they’ve left behind. Joe D. knows he’ll be stuck with the Christian Laettner’s of the world, should he choose to acquire them.
Look at Steve Kerr in Phoenix. He’s basically taking a chance that his move might turn into a championship. More likely, it will sink the team for years to come, but he won’t be around for that outcome anyway.
The Bulls made the mistake of overvaluing their young talent. Why was Luol Deng off the table when Garnett and Gasol were in play? Why did Chicago spend all that money on Ben Wallace? Those were bad decisions with logically negative outcomes. So Paxson flails in an attempt to save his job, and actually flails reasonably well, unloading an “untradable” contract in the process.
This was a great trade for the Bulls. Been Worthless was the single-worst player in the NBA for his number of minutes. He was a black hole on offense - I can’t count the number of good passes he caught 2 feet from the basket that he couldn’t convert into baskets. He didn’t jump, he didn’t rebound, all he did was take unearned minutes from deserving young players. But I blame the Head Coaches, Boyland and Skiles, for that as much as I blame Ol’ Been.
You Detroit fans may love and respect Been Worthless for his time in Detroit; Chicago fans have the right to take a big dump right in his mouth for all the hard work and effort he put in to his time with the Bulls. Which is to say, NONE.
“The Bulls made the mistake of overvaluing their young talent. Why was Luol Deng off the table when Garnett and Gasol were in play?”
Wrong, wrong, wrong. John Paxson offered Tyson Chandler, Luol Deng, and the # 2 draft pick (that became Tyrus Thomas) to Kevin McHale before the Been Worthless signing. McHale turned down that offer before deciding to help his poor buddy Danny Ainge. Then he would’ve signed Been and had a front line of Garnett, Ol’ Been, and Nocioni.
Joe D is a good GM, but you guys do worship him a bit much. If he had drafted Wade or Carmelo or Bosh rather than Darko, Detroit may’ve won 2 or 3 Championships rather than just then 1. That’s a HUGE black mark on Joe D’s resume. At least Paxson never chose Luol Deng or Ben Gordon over DWade, let alone Darko.
The Been Worthless signing is the biggest mistake by Paxson, and he just rectified that. Larry Hughes may be no good whatsoever, yet the trade will STILL help the ballclub. Been Worthless was absolute trash on the Bulls. He took $60 million and shut it down. He’s pathetic.
It was a good move for all 3 teams, but I sincerely doubt it helps the Cavs get past either the Pistons or the Celtics this season.
So, is Ben going to be able to get along with Mike Brown? This is LeBron’s team, so Ben isn’t going to be the “Big Man on Campus”. The past couple of years it has been pretty obvious when Ben has been “discontented”.
OK LETS TAKE THIS IN THE CORRECT SENSE OF THOUGHT. CHICAGO WANTED A BIG BEN TO TAKE AWAY FROM THE PISTONS LINE UP. THEY FIGURE IF THEY OFFER BEN A 60 MILLION CONTRACT HE WOULD TAKE IT (ANYONE WOULD HAve). WHEN CHICAGO BEAT THE PISTONS THEY FIGURE THEYHAD DONE THE RIGHT THING, BUT WHAT HAPPEN? CHICAGO IS NOT THE FAVOR ONE SO NOW THEY FIGURE, “LET’S TRADE BEN TO THE CAVS”. BAD CHOICE BECAUSE THEY JUST MADE THE CAVS LOT STRONGER. THE REAL REASON IS BECAUSE THE BULLS HAD A PROMBLEM WITH BEN WEARING HIS HEAD BAND. THE BEST TRADE WOULD HAVE BEEN FOR BEN TO GO BACK TO THE PISTONS EVEN THOUGH HE MADE A CALL THAT ANYONE WOULD HAVE. DETROIT IF HE REALLY WAS A GREAT PLAYER, TRUE FRIEND, TRUE PISTONS HE WOULD BE BACK IN THE FAMOUS BAD BOYS COLOR: RED, BLUE, AND WHITE.