The Pistons kick off their four-game swing out West with a nationally-televised game against the new-look Suns. Does Shaq have enough left in the tank to take the Suns to the Finals? Right now I’m less concerned about that as I am wondering if the Pistons have enough big men left on the roster to contain both him and Amare Stoudemire.
You know how Amir Johnson’s emergence has been a nice little bonus the last few weeks? This afternoon his play will be critical, as will that of Rasheed Wallace, Antonio McDyess and Jason Maxiell. This might be one of those nights where all four need to show up for the Pistons to have a chance. Same goes for the backcourt, although Chauncey Billups usually does a good job against Steve Nash. The ball tips in a few minutes — leave your thoughts in the comments.
is this game streaming online anywhere? i’m in london and would love to catch some of it.
thanks.
It’s early, but so far I think Shaq has done more harm than good to Phoenix’s cause…
Seriously, remember the days when teams counted on Shaq going to the bench so they could maybe go on a run to get back in the game?
Yeah. I hate to say it, but I think Phx hurt their chances at a ring, and have to give the advantage to, gulp, LA. I have only seen around 10 of their games this year before today, and wow. Everything I thought they had going for them, seems to have disappeared. Granted it’s a very small sample size.
And did Mark Jackson just praise Stuckey for “staying in front of Steve Nash” as he got called for the charge? And as I type, they pull within 8. Awesome.
That was such a ridiculous call on Stuckey. I can’t wait till he gets even a modicum of respect from the refs. There was no lowered shoulder, and Nash wasn’t square, he was beaten. That’s a fould against Devin Harris, Barbosa, Wade, Parker, etc.
By foul I mean a block on the defender guarding the players I mentioned…
I love that the early career-late career dichotomy that JVG goes with is the offensive foul on Shaq (implying his decline is somehow on the refs). I think I’d point to him not being able to score over Amir Johnson…7 years ago it would have been unthinkable for him not to be able to back down a guy 150 pounds lighter than him.
And as I type this he tries to hurt Amir…I love that Amir is good enough to get under a guy like Shaq’s skin
God I love when we d up
Look at Amir fighting Shaq for loose balls — this is better than when Afflalo got into it with KG
Been watching avidly, not much chatty for me.
However, re: Shaq’s flagrant on Amir -
Amir got away with a pretty blatant non-call grabbing at meat on Amare? on the other end right before the fast break. When they went to Amir, I knew Shaq was gonna do that. Old school move.
That being said, it’s painfully obvious that Shaq is finished on an NBA talent level. Detroit brings playoff-grade defense. Shaq can’t handle it. That flagrant was lol’able for Shaq’s diminished power, but the real joke is the “over the line Smokey!” free throw negated earlier plus the lack of any post-up ability against our bigs. Shaq used to kill us, specifically, Rasheed, Ben, and especially McDyess, within 8 feet. He can’t even get those garbage hooks to drop. Shaq? Nice job Steve Kerr. Welcome to .500 basketball, Phoenix!
I would pay money to see Shaq in a footrace with a box of cheez-its. It would be an entertaining weekend.
Shaq, you fat, lump of dump. how does it feel to get HUMILIATED by a 20 year old bench player? Amir is dominating you. Making you look, old, fat and slow. I’m enjoying watching your ship sink.
oh, and you lost rebounds to jason maxiell. nuff said.
I mean, he’s just a shadow of who he used to be. It’s kind of sad, because I like Shaq and he was the best player in the NBA for a pretty long stretch. Now he’s just a big body.
That said, one thing I will say for the trade is it helps their chemistry. I’m not one for crediting intangibles, but Marion is a total sourpuss and Shaq is pretty confidence-inspiring and a great leader. He’ll get in an interview and make his typical hilarious, dry jokes and help the Suns turn the page after a disappointing loss. Is it worth as much as Marion’s ridiculous production? No, but it does make a difference…
i think they created that problem themselves. you can’t shop someone from practically the day they get there and not expect it to get on their nerves.
publicly shop them at that. joe doesn’t do that. not to my knowledge anyway
Fair point, but I don’t think the entirety of the problem can be explained by them trying to trade him. Remember when Marion said he might rather be an elite scorer on a terrible team than win a title with Phoenix? I think there’s more to his trouble-making than being angry about being on the trading block…but agreed, that didn’t help the situation.
“We all know the Suns expected you to bring charisma and showmanship to their team, but was bodyslamming 20 year olds always part of the plan?”
please Matt, if you’re at this game, ask him this question. you earn extra points from me if you call him a “lump of dump.”
Holy LOL at that!
Hahaha I second that request. But I mean, you always hear teams say the way you beat the Pistons is to physically intimidate Amir Johnson. I think Shaq was just executing on the gameplan.
When Shaq says this is the best team he’s been on… he forgets to put himself in the equation. From that point of view (if you take Shaq off every team he’s been on) then he might be right. It still doesn’t mean Phoenix will win anything.
Am I the only person who hates the hip hop drumline beat mixed with “Hait to the Chief?” Come on Chevy you’re better than that.
Btw, I wonder how much crack/kool-aid/cornbread the coach smoked/drank/ate before he told his team that they’re better than the Pistons. Look at the scoreboard. You’re at home.
I can’t believe teams are really gameplanning against Amir yet. Though that would probably be their tact.
Shaq’s lying through his teeth.
I think this game reveals the extent to which Shaq relied on the good graces of officials. The ability to deliver a forearm to your defenders head is an advantage indeed.
Yeah, last I checked he was a meaningful part of the answer to “how good were the ‘00 era Lakers?”
I didn’t notice whatever Amir did to earn the flagrant that Shaq handed out. Regardless, I think that’s one of the best things that could’ve happened to Amir. He’s playing very well, and he got housed by Shaq got up then nailed the first FT. A minute or two later he gets a held ball call. This could be a big moment for his development. I’m pretty excited about what I’m seeing.
Also, I thought JVG made an excellent point about how Phoenix has slowly diminished their ability to operate in the half court because they have kind of a weird mix of players. I don’t know if I buy that they don’t have enough shooting, I still like Hill and Nash and Bell in that department. Mare is turning into a pretty good spot up shooter from 15 feet. But I do think they have a weird mix of players. If can figure each other out in time for the playoffs they should be fine, but that’s a big if.
At the risk of not being a homer, remember when Bill Simmons said the Suns would be better off with Rasheed than Amare? I mean, is there any GM in the league who wouldn’t prefer Amare?
I think Shaq was just desperate not to have a green 20-year-old dunk all over him.
Man, Sheed’s been a beast today though
Eh, everyone knows Grant Hill doesn’t know how to inbound the ball…wait a minute…
I am enjoying this game.
I for ne am thankful for Shaq. It makes me feel less out of shape.
btw…Keegan, are you a frequent commenter on the leading Michigan blog?
Loved the blank slackjawed look on that Phoenix fan’s face. Classic.
Hey Raja don’t turn your head biatch, u just got Ripped
I’m glad you noticed Brad, that was fantastic
Dixon time?
hahahaha two backcourt violations in a row!
It’s too bad the Pistons don’t have Anthony Mason on the bench. Then when they were up 20 in the 4th we could call it the Mason-Dixon line.
No, that’s not me, I don’t think. I love how depressed their crowd is, but NOBODY’s leaving. Maybe it’s a lock-in.
34! Is it Juan Dixon time already?
it’s been talked about this season, but man, watching him today, it needs said again: the job dyess is doing rebounding the ball is as good as you will ever see. take notes, kids.
heyy
i missed the part about the bump on chaunceys head? what happened??
lovin this game tho!
is amir hurt?
game is tape delayed comes on in one hour here — can’t wait to see it - don’t care how late it is
that thing is huge! i think he backed into an elbow coming down the lane on defense. i only saw him rubbing his head after it happened.
Oh. My bad.
So much for the nationally televised curse.
How do the Suns feel about acting like the Wash Generals for a game? I mean, Lord, how do you get two backcourt violations in a row? Where’s the confetti cannon?
is it possible that the bucks aren’t that bad?
Lights out. Game over. Check the stats. PHX is done.
Phoenix must feel like Stewart Cink right about now.
Come on, Phoenix, surrender! Grrrrrrrrr…, you’re keeping me from watching the youngsters! Quit playing for pride!
And there’s the white flag.
Arvis is finally making his shot…hopefully it will stay like that.
Let’s give Amare some freethrows, right?
If Amir could just posterize Shaq…….Man would it make my day. I’m loving the bench play right now.
i really, really enjoy van gundy’s commentating.
in addition, this is why i’d love for phoenix to make it through the west. they never will, but we match up so well with them, shaq or no shaq. this pussy euro-ball is made to get out-rebounded, out-defended, and just beaten into the court.
whole lotta pistons fans in the stands, staying to the very, very end. awesome.
Sorry, ABC, for ruining your national audience with a hanging 30-spot on America’s happy-peppy desert club.
Sorry, Shaq, for Detroit making you look old and ineffective.
Sorry, Kerr, for Detroit making your deadline trade for Shaq look like the franchise-killer that it is.
Sorry, Phoenix, for Detroit taking a gigantic #2 on your center court.
Sorry, David Stern . . . wait. I’M NOT SORRY! He-heh!
Tim Donaghy says hello, David.
Phoenix’s arena is great if you’re a Piston fan.
I think the Pistons will claim the No. 1 spot in the East and the league before it’s all over.
Hey Forty:
Re: that Chevy “Hail to the Chief” drumline commercial.
I hate that thing too. How can they think it’s good marketing to align your product with the President. Last time I checked more than 60% of people don’t even like the president.
just watched the game on tape delay after listening to it live
I have to say that Billips out steve nashed steve nash!!
Biilips was the best point guard out there and he made some really sweet passes — all with a big bump on his head
I’d prefer to have Detroit in the 2 seed. I’d much rather face a Magic team that did nothing to improve before the trade deadline than the Cavs and Lebron.
The Cavs would take the #3 seed if they end up with a better record than Orlando. Correct me if I’m wrong…
no they would not. it goes division winners 1, 2, and 3 dependent on record. then 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 purely by record.
Orlando could have a worse record than Cleveland and still take the 3 seed. That is unless they changed the rules since last year.
No, division winners are guaranteed a top 4 seed, but a non-division winner with a better record than a division winner gets a higher seed. If Cleveland ends up with a better record than Orlando, they’d have the third seed.
right, that’s what I thought, given that Utah currently holds a 4th seed despite being a division leader and never losing to the Pistons…
Thing about this win is it’s easy to say “Ha, see Phoenix? Detroit is better than you.” When, you know for a fact that 9 out of 10 games between the two teams will be much more competitive. Maybe 8-10 because Detroit will lay an egg now and then as well.
That’s what scares me about Detroit. They are so awesome when they have the lead, when they’re comfident. But when they play a lackluster team and lose a little bit of foothold, they panic very, VERY easily. Clutch play from Chauncey, Rip and Rasheed keeps them in the game most times, but confidence and the ability to fight out of tough situations are not this team’s strong points.
Not to take away from what was abeautiful effort from Detroit, but I just hope everyone (including the team) puts this into perspective.
for what it’s worth, we’re now guaranteed not to finish with a losing record this season.
this game more accurately says “Ha, see Phoenix? Detroit is STILL better than you.”
i remember a season or two ago when we were playing the suns on national tv and we were down 27 or something like that at the half. pippen was doing in studio commentary and without flinching said that the pistons would come back and win it. sure enough, we did. the suns are weak. they were weak with marion. they’re weaker with shaq. get used to watching him throw his considerable dump at players streaking towards the basket. when the amir johnsons of the league are making him look like a fool, that’s his only recourse. viva la flagrant!
by the way. amir had some seriously man-sized boards today. and he was passing nicely as well…3 dimes.
This was a growin up game for him. I could see him moving into the starting line up by the end of next season…probalby leap frog Maxiell.
Long time lurker just popping in to say, I love our kids’ attitude.
From Afflalo banging with KG and not backing down,
to Maxi jawing with KG in the rematch,
to Amir taking on Shaq,
I like that the young’uns have picked up the Pistons attitude. That’s the one thing I wish from this team. Players may change, coaches may change, but as long as the attitude is inherited I will be a loyal Pistons fan.
Afflalo, Maxiell, Amir, Stuckey… they have that “Piston feel”
Into the starting line-up, really? Replacing Dice? I guess that could happen. That would be a pretty awesome starting 5, with Max and a still fairly productive Dice coming off the bench…
Sauce doesn’t like all this praise for Amir Johnson. He wants Rasheed to find the fountain of youth so that he can start at PF/C for the rest of his life.
Boney, I think we all want Rasheed to find the fountain of youth and start at the 4/5 for the rest of his life, too. He was outstanding today. The best part was when they had ‘Mare miked up and he was talking to an assistant who said, “don’t worry about it, ain’t nobody in the world defending that shot, just keep playing.”
But, I get the point you were trying to make.
I got home, and begged my wife not to tell me the outcome of the game. I was away and had TiVoed the game. She lasted like five minutes before bursting: “They put on a clinic! They put on a damn clinic!”
I don’t know whether to hug them for today’s game or kick their butts for laying those two eggs earlier in the week. How in the hell did this team today lose to Milwaukee by 20 and Orlando also? We know we’re not 30 pts better than Phoenix and definately not 20 pts worse than the Bucks (although we probably are 25 pts better than the Bucks, rematch). We’re honestly somewhere in between. If we stay hungry in the playoffs, I see San Antonio (our old nemesis) as our only competition. The Lakers may match up well against us also, but I damn sure ain’t scared. We all know Utah isn’t making the Finals (I hope) cause they’ve had our number for 2 seasons now. The defenese today was outstanding. Everyone was very active. We did a fairly good job of keeping Nash out of the lane.
One thing you have to say about our Boys, they are professional. Amare can hang on the rim and beat his chest after a posterizing dunk in the first half, but he just looks like a big league ass once its all over. When you look at the highlights of a 30 pt loss at home and see Amare showing his ass, he just looks stupid. I have complained about their lack of fire during the playoffs but during the season its good to see they don’t hang their heads after a loss or beat their chest after a good win, like today. They just keep the level head. I think that gets us through the season well, without any emotional highs or lows. Sheed and Chauncey looked like world beaters man. Billups stat line doesn’t look right though. He had his best 5 for 15 game ever. He dominated and completely controlled that damn game for us. If the bench can at least hold the fort down while the starters rest during the playoffs, watch out man. (Although now most games they increase the lead). We don’t need big points from Dice, but when his jumper is dropping, it just opens so many things up for other guys. Dice’s rebounding the last 15 games or so, is just ridiculous. He has to be averaging 12 boards over that stretch. This is the true essense of team ball. We looked that good and no one had a 40 pt Kobe type night. Just balance and focus. 26 more practice games to go boys. Keep your heads straight. Damn, this may be my longest post ever.
PG4L, hope your well Babe.
Phuc you, Pheonix (I just saw the Shaq flagrant - what a load of crap!)
I was also out of town and just watched the game. What a clinic. Good on everyone for hustling hard and playing with some fire. That was some precision, focused basketball from every player. But I think the MVP of the game goes to Jeff Van Gundy. He’s officially my new favourite broadcaster. He had me cracking up, and also nodding my head in agreement with everything he said. I hope the Pistons can keep up the intensity and get more well-rounded efforts like this one. And maybe McLovin can also get that Oscar consideration.
And since everyone is handing out the PG4L love, I’ll throw this out there for her: Bullet-Head had a great game. His head looks like a bullet.
How can the Suns fans BOO this team? They win and win and win… and lose the occasional game - and they get booed? Do we do that at the Palace?
If I was a Suns fan I would have booed; they’re better than the effort they gave. Even our mighty Pistons shouldn’t be embarrassing them on thier home court like that.
I wrote that, and then I saw the back-to-back backcourt violations that Nash committed… and yeah, I see why they were getting booed.
I’m still why Walter HERRMANN was not given more time play that he deserve.
Could anyone describe to me about his dunk tonight?
I would love to ehar that on my blog…
http://mundoalbiceleste.blogspot.com/2008/02/elsewhere-around-globe.html
other matt: even better about that quote was that assistant was ex-pistons coach alvin gentry.
btw, did you guys ever notice that jarvis hayes is only 26? i guess with all of the injuries i figured he was about the same age as rip. if he shoots the ball like he did today off the bench, we are going to continue to clock some suckas up side the head. good yahoo sports article about our young kids from today:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=jy-pistons022408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Just got back from Foo Fighters @ the Joe. It ruled. 1st two openers weren’t that great though. Dave Grohl’s a fantastic showman.
Great day, Pistons trounce PHX, and the concert was sweet.
PHX deserved more than boos from their fans. A beer shower would have been apropos.
And yeah, I’ve heckled the Pistons @ home. Game 5 vs. the Bulls, 07 playoffs, was that kind of bad. The crowd left so early, voices carried . . . I hollered and hollered, lol. Pistons absolutely get that @ home, too. Bad games from the home team . . . no written rule that they get solace @ home. If that was the case, then the Detroit Lions would never realize they were that terrible . . . they’re pretty clueless about their horrible play on their own. Gotta call bee ess when it’s fronted.
Boney, I’m so pissed that Amir got more than zero minutes. I’m covering myself in honey, and I’m about to go walking around the city looking for grizzly bears.
JD, Hayes had a sweet stroke goin’ today . . . it seemed like Detroit got him the Wizards pace he was used to . . . he was rollin up to the perimeter and would jack it almost off-balance, asap, and it was money seemingly every time he did it that way.
In other brick-festivals he’s put up, it seems like when he takes his time and sets himself, the guy tends to miss it more than when he’s on-the-fly jackin’ it.
Chip on shoulder alert: Here’s something to be steamed about, Pistons beat Phoenix on their court by 30 and all the Daily Dime can talk about is how LBJ’s new mates are fitting in.
I think Hermann deserves more time, too, but where it’s coming from, I dunno.
for a while i used to get pissed that the zoo crew rarely got a call go their way because either they’re rookies so refs don’t give them the benefit of a call (ie - Stuckey’s “charge” on Nash…BS!) or they’re blowing out a team and the refs don’t want to slow the game down on the winning team’s end.
But I’ve realized that it is going to breed a group of young angry players who always have a chip on their shoulder and always feel like they gotta prove just how good they are. They’ll constantly feel disrespected…turning them into a intergalactic super team.
Did anyone else notice the great D Rip put on Grant Hill????
how about the hit maxy put on sheed, sending him to his knees. he went down hard, took a while to get up, angrily shrugging off help from a teammate (they quickly cut to a different camera), but for a second you could see the realization in his face. he had that coming. furthermore, it was a less dangerous hit than he’d given 20 year old amir. and that hit hurt him. jason maxiell ate his heart, and absorbed his power.
sorry, hit he put on shaq, sheesh, still in bed
I was able to make capture this game in HD and have uploaded as a torrent file to mininova go here for the download
http://www.mininova.org/tor/1198642
P.S. the sound maybe out of synch half way. Not sure why. Sorry about that.
question for you guys. Is Amir pushing Maxiel for minutes now? I don’t think Amir will be the first big off the bench anytime this season but it seems like he might end up getting more minutes for the game.
Kyle - glad someone noticed the knock-down Max dealt to Shaq. It was a thing of beauty, particularly after that flagrant foul…
shaq played more minutes than anyone on our team?
Here’s another gem. Grant Hill was held scoreless.
Dear ESPN,
Detroit’s not ‘under the radar.’ You just can’t operate the equipment properly.
CTRL+ALT+DEL your system FTW.
JesseC,
I don’t think that Amir is pushing Maxiell for minutes right now. But that is only because in games like the Suns and 2nd Bucks game, they’re playing so well, that the starters are resting big minutes.
I think you could definitely see Amir pushing him for minutes by playoffs though. Hell, I’m not sure why Flip did it, but in the loss to the Bucks, he played Amir through the end in what ended up being a pretty close game. I haven’t seen Flip do that with any bench player unless forced to due to fouls/injury. And Flip could have gone with McDiggidy too.
I think that Amir will definitely start taking minutes from Maxiell next year but it will be tough to manage from a coaching perspective because realistically McDyess will probably retire after next year which will leave a vacancy in the starting 5 that will ultimately be filled by Amir. I just don’t think you want to risk ticking off Maxiell by having another player leap-frog him who hasn’t “put in his time,” so to speak.
If Maxiell is a good teammate he’ll recognize that Amir is more effective in longer minutes and be okay with getting significant minutes off the bench.
What is more interesting to me is what happens when Sheed retires. If Cheikh Samb can develop into a formidable defensive center, we could have a frontcourt of 7′1″ and 6′11″ which would definitely be our biggest frontcourt in a long time…
A conversation between myself and a friend on G Chat this morning:
my friend: but it makes me ferociously mad that sheed doesn’t do that [play the way he did yesterday] on a regular basis
me: Yeah, I keep hearing that from people. I’ll take what I can get, I suppose.
me: and we got denver tonight, should be interesting
my friend: you know the stones
they will either destroy by 20
or be down 15 in the second quarter
I think this captures the sentiment of much of the DBB community and I just thought I’d share.
Samb picked up 6 fouls again last night, and in something like 10 or so minutes. He’s effective when he’s in there, but he just can’t get the hang of that big-ass frame of his yet.