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Rasheed is back and starting.
I hate seeing the palace half full for a weekday game.
Im glad sheed is back because my fantasy team needs him. however he could have sat another game for my real life team.
Weird, ESPN had us playing Phoenix at 7:30…. world wide leader my asterisk.
Dont hate on the world wide leader in hype
One thing Mo Cheeks has been able to do for most of his coaching career . . . take his guys, and put together a very good team defense.
Look, I realize NOBODY is watching this game but jesus how do we give up 26 points in the first quarter to a team THIS bad? I mean for the love of christ just double Iggy AT ALL TIMES and bang the SH*T out of Miller if he dares to drive into the paint…. this is NOT hard, who’s going to beat you, Sammy Dalembert? Jesus it’s NOT a good sign when I suspect the local HS Coach could design a plan to contain Philly but somehow the Piston’s can’t.
Okay, I may be a week late to the party on this, but I’ve been on a VERY long business trip where I had no internet access or TV for the last 2 weeks.
Why is Theo the first big off the bench? Is this more AAAAAAAAAAAARGH FLIP WTF!? Or is it just us trying to get Theo integrated into the team? I noticed he started a few games while I was gone, which I’m mostly okay with to keep the bench cohesive and playing with the same rotation. Help would be appreciated! Thanks.
Dammit, Amir! DO NOT PASS OUT OF THAT PAINT.
nice job jarvis.
Dude, we look like crap.
good point PG4L. Flip still doesn’t get my vote.
I hate Reggie Evans. He drives Detroit crazy.
Also, is it too blasphemous to suggest that Flip’s motion offense crumbles against tougher active defenses, like, oh, Philly . . . and even worse against, oh, Cleveland?!?
Pistongirl4life-Is that Flip bashing?
Stuck. nice.
We need to just keep working off the Philly double on Sheed.
Niiice defensive clamp-down, Detroit.
Come on guys, please play more consistent, more like this . . . get tough for 48 minutes.
49 minutes. I want them tough for 30 seconds before and after each game, just to be sure.
Since I’m incredibly egocentric, I like to think if a game doesn’t capture me, than it’s okay if the Pistons are disinterested. I know that this “on/off switch” mentality can be frustrating, but I don’t blame them for going to sleep on Philly. Long story short, I would not take ANY stock in what we do/don’t do as a team in this game. If the young’ns show nice gains, good for them, they’re not bored yet. The vets are probably as bored as I am right now.
I know stats don’t tell the whole story but:
Ratliff: 3 Rebs, 1 Asts, 1 TO, 2 BS, 3 PFs in 14 minutes
Maxiell: 0 Rebs, 0 Asts, 4 Pts, 1 Block 2 PFs, in 6 minutes
You’re telling me Amir can’t put up a better stat lines than these? Sure, he might foul out after 6 straight moving screens, but give me a break. This is the crap that drove me nuts when Mohammed was coming in and doing nothing in his spot duty days.
Okay, Jason Maxiell’s infant cannibalism has re-invograted me. What an alley-oop. My goodness.
But, LB, Amir has one minute and Max has seven, midway through the 4Q.
Interesting rotation pattern Flip has put out tonight.
V: It’s the first time Flip has had all 5 solid bigs to work with. It’s also a home game in the middle of the week against the hapless Sixers. I’m not taking stock in it. Even if we end up losing, my disappointment will be extremely mild.
And since this looks like a D-League game, he should feel right at home.
This team stands no chance of winning a title this year. Next year is out as well. This is this team’s last “successful” season for a while. The run was nice while it lasted, but the fire isn’t inside of these guys anymore, a real shame.
If we lose this game…
Oh my God, Dyce, finish it!
Sauce, I agree with you on the motion offense bogging down against good defenses. I think the more physical play disrupts all the cutting. And I think the players tend to abandon the gameplan and go one on one. They should keep cutting hard and screening and force the defense to foul. This is where the supposed refreshed and not tired starting lineup will theoretically come into play.
QD, we’re screwed if Chauncey’s the only consistent foul-drawing starter of the major four.
Oh my god, for the chips, 3 seconds . . .
Wow, we got pwned by Philadelphia.
Is that really the best we could do?
*sigh*
Like I said, no chance…
Whatever they planned in the huddle, it. did. not. work. at. all.
Um … you said we had no chance to win a title (a laughable sentiment), not no chance to win this game. And the last time I checked, we’re still sporting the NBA’s 2nd best record. Are you asking us to reward you for being an idiot? In that case, I give you cookie.
Sauce: Yeah, I’m not going to take Flip to task for this (since he’s drawn up good plays in similar situations in the past), but that was bad.
Free throw attempts - averages.
1. Chauncey Billups … 6.3
2. Jason Maxiell …… 3.5
3. Richard Hamilton … 3.2
4. Tayshaun Prince …. 3.2
5. Rasheed Wallace …. 2.2
6. Rodney Stuckey ….. 2.2
Our tallest players shoot the least amount of free throws.
I can deal with Rasheed never getting to the line (roaming out on the three-arc), but I can’t deal with McDyess not getting there.
LB, I think Chauncey thought he was going to get a call in those last 3 seconds. Who keeps feeding them such lies?
PUT IT IN THE PAINT, PISTONS. IT WAS A ONE POINT GAME.
Detroit shoots a higher percentage, makes (1) more three-pointer, has two more assists, and takes and makes more FTs. But the Sixers took 16 more shots from the field than did Detroit, a product of outrebounding Detroit (by 7) and having 7 fewer TOs (Detroit had a lousy 15-14 assist - TO ratio).
Also, while I’m not a huge believer in the +/- stat in the NBA, every bench player was in the (-) territory, notably Ratliff with -15.
We got ruined by our free throws tonight, which is rare.
Both teams had about the same amount of fouls against.
Detroit went 18-28 (.643) from charity.
McDyess had a TON of attempts tonight, but lo and behold, he was the WORST offender. He shot 6-12 from the FT line.
Prince and Rasheed combined for a grand total of 1-2 from charity.
Bah.
Sauce, I’m telling you dude, it’s not that big of a deal re: the bigs not getting to the line. The Celtics get most of their FTs from Pierce, and though Garnett helps, he only provides one more attempt/game than Max. The real big deal is the lack of FTAs across the board for the Pistons. We pale in comparison in team FTAs/game to the Lakers & Celtics. FTAs probably won’t determine a series (although it seems like it decided the Cleveland series last year), but we’re at a decided disadvantage against those two squads in terms of attempts.
Don’t forget Rip Hamilton missing both free throws late, either.
Sauce, if I’ve said it about a million times over the past 5 years (both here and to friends), Chauncey has this horrible habit of trying to initiate contact when he takes midrange jumpers. He cares more about drawing contact then he does about the shot. The “Mr. Big Shot” title is misleading if you consider that for every brilliant shot he’s made late in the game there’s usually a horrid clunker.
You’re right, LB, the current level of free throws, on average, has been the same over the last 5 seasons, dating back to Detroit’s championship in ‘04. They never really change that much, but the difference is Rip’s effort.
Back in ‘03-04, Rip was almost right up there with Chauncey for FTAs. Meaning, we had more than one guy who would draw the fouls on a regular basis.
I also agree with your assessment of “Big Shot” as overrated, due to his penchant to draw a foul. I know, to me at least, it seems like Chauncey’s ‘routine’ is instinctual. Despite that prowess, someone has to tell them that referees in this league will let everything but a cheap perimeter hand-check go in the last 3 seconds of a game. Which means, at least, to me, that in the last 3 seconds . . . they gotta pound it tougher than that.
Sauce: Yeah, let Chauncey take a wide-open mid range jumper at the end of the game, or a perfectly straight 3-pointer, and you’ve got Mr. Big Shot. Leave him in a position where as you put it, his “routine is instinctual”, and you’ve got Mr. Big Not. So they either have to pound it tougher (probably with someone else), or they have to get someone a wide open look (like Rip in Boston 2 seasons ago on that amazing answer to Mark Blount’s jumper w/:00.8 left, getting his own wide open stunner w/:00.1 left).
The Rip stats are eye-opening (hat tip to you Sauce for finding a perpetual inconsistency in Rip’s game) though I don’t really see personal or team FTAs making a difference for us in the playoffs. It comes down to us showing up or not. Same theme as always will crown us or doom us, methinks.
Sorry, I’d comment but I stopped watching the game sometime in the 3rd Quarter to get into a pointless arguement with “a Cat from the East Coast” about when the Wu Tang Clan made Timbos cool……
apparently I didn’t miss much.
As for “is that Flip bashing”… well you tell ME what I’m supposed to think of a coach who apparently doesn’t bother to game plan for the night’s opponent? Sure it isn’t Flip missing FT after FT, but it CERTAINLY is Flip calling the plays/dictating the coverage…
Seriously, too mad to even THINK about this one, I’m absolutely sick and tired of watching the best team in the East (at a minimum, I’d take these guys on a night they’re trying vs ANYONE but the Jazz, who IMHO are basically built EXACTLY like I’d build a video game team to beat the Pistons in 5, but I digress) f*cking mail games in vs “weaker opponents”. This is the NBA, there ARE no weak opponents… just games you SHOULD win and games you CAN win with talent like Detroit has. Period.
I don’t even CARE who’s fault it is anymore, I’m just sick to death of it.
I didn’t see the game but I did notice this…
(Sheed’s +14) + (Theo Ratliff’s -15) = 83 - 82
Were ever they on the court at the same time? I’d be interested to see what they bring in tandem. Especially since Theo’s the closest we’ve had to someone like Big Ben since he left.
*they ever
I’m not going to say the sky is falling.
But did anyone else read Flip’s post-game comments? He sounds like he’s cracking. Check it out and you tell me.
I remember a lot of early Theo and McDyess, often, QD.
“We just played too cool,” Flip Saunders said. “That’s always been the rap against us, that we play too cool at times. We didn’t get nasty. The score is no indication of how we played, losing by one. We played a lot worse than that.”
http://www.dailytribune.com/stories/031308/spo_sports01.shtml
No kidding, Flip.
The bright side . . . that was apparently loss number 6 @ home, from what the announcers said.
The real side . . . LB’s right, we have a better team than Philly, and no matter how well Philly plays, we should come out with wins against teams like Philly, 100 percent of the time, no questions ever asked or otherwise demonstrated.
Philly’s D was active. They were best at clogging and bothering our passing and movement along the perimeter. I mentioned Cleveland earlier because last year, the Cavs did similar to Detroit, and the alarming part of Detroit’s ‘adjustment’ . . . the Pistons respond with stubborn determination to keep doing what isn’t working. People stop moving around, less cuts to the rim are made, everyone falls in love with at least a 16 foot jumper, even if it’s contested like hell, and before Detroit knows it, Chauncey’s explaining how it all turned into a loss, and Flip’s steaming about the team being ‘too cool’ out there.
“The “Mr. Big Shot” title is misleading if you consider that for every brilliant shot he’s made late in the game there’s usually a horrid clunker.”
Chauncey draws a lot of fouls. If he can make 40% of those shots, and draw a foul another 20% of the time, that works out very well for him.
FYI, I transcribed a lot of Flip’s post-game presser. He was definitely ticked off after the game.
Philly has been playing better lately than they’re getting credit for and we’ve been playing worse. I missed this game, but in the last month the Sixers have beaten Dallas, Orlando and Phoenix. See the Refresh button on your NBA standings web page? Hit it (or F5) and you will see that they’re in the 7 seed and climbing.
It would be great if Detroit never had rough stretches and won every game they’re supposed to, whatever that means. But this is the N B A. Where “supposed to” doesn’t happen.
I want this team to peak in about a month, not right now. I want there to be locker room shakeups and challenges shouted in practice. I want people not speaking to one another. I want sportswriters to call for Amir or Maxy to start. I want Chauncey and Rip pulled in a close game to send a message about their effort. I want Sheed and Flip to get into another argument and then talk about how they respect each other.
I want a month of turmoil and a tougher team built on the ashes of this one.
If they’re putting in this effort and getting this result in three weeks or a month, then my heart rate will go up. I’ll even concede that I really, really want them to get up for the Spurs Friday.
But No Chance and some others who live and die by each game need to get a little perspective. We’re playing in the Eastern Conference, not the Western, so the important numbers tonight may have been these: 33, 31, 33, 39, 34. That wooshing sound isn’t the championship hopes falling, it’s the starters’ minutes.
i don’t want to say philly’s legit, since even their gm is saying “hold yr horses”, but ever since stefanski took over and changed their identity into a run first team, they’ve been killing it. 13-4 over the past month. ALL of their guys are fast. ALL of them can jump out of the gym. a lot of length. a ton of athleticism. and their gameplan suits that. but the pistons have dealt with teams like that before. however, philly does something we don’t: they play their ASSES off every minute of the game. something the pistons should look into trying.
if that’s flip ticked off, no wonder these guys ride roughshod all over him. he’s about as good at being a tough guy as he is at managing and maintaining a decent bench rotation. (how much longer do we get to suffer through this throwing s*** at a wall style of substitution saunders is using?)
one final note: that was the worst game rip hamilton has played in recent memory. more than the 9 points on 30% shooting, he got used by absolutely everyone he guarded. in the first quarter, it was iguodala. in the last quarter, it was carney (who by the way is maybe philly’s 8th man.) lord knows when we play the celtics, it’s the dribble penetration that kills us and it’s usually somebody flying by hamilton. i’m starting to come to the boney side of the fence when it comes to richard hamilton.*
*if it isn’t you, boney, who hates rip, please let me know. and replace the name “boney” with whomever it is i’m thinking of.
JD, it’s Boney who’s not a fan of Rip in the slightest, you got that one correct.
And for a guy who is 6′7, Rip doesn’t seem to ever use that lanky frame enough defensively. He basically is the weakest link most nights among the Piston defenders.
Boston is too hungry this year and have almost everything favoring them. These Pistons don’t stand a chance this year.
From Matt’s recap:
“In the grand scheme of things, this loss matters little for Detroit: they’re still five games ahead of the Magic in the No. 2 seed and 5.5 games behind Boston. Even so, the mood in the locker room was as somber as I’ve seen it all season. Players talked in hushed tones, and there was none of the joking around between players that you usually see. Antonio McDyess didn’t even bother to get completely dressed before leaving, leaving the locker room in his undershirt instead of sticking around to take any questions from the media, which was still huddled around Rip Hamilton’s locker.”
Man, 55-plus degree days need to get here now.
These are the kind of games that disgust me. I know this is counterintuitive, in a way I hope we keep losing. That might light a fire under some of these guys’ asses… wait, nothing lights a fire under our starters asses. I forgot.
What did Joe Dumars say at the beginning of the season? Something about bringing in young guys to push the starters, because we lack a sense of urgency? Why would the starters ever play with a sense of urgency unless they get yanked out of the starting lineup? Same old, same old: Pistons always think they have everything under control… until after we lose. Then they(mainly Mr. Cool himself, Chauncey) say stuff like “I don’t think the better team won.” YEAH, THATS PRECISELY THE PROBLEM!!!
I think this conversation about Flip is very interesting in light of last nights game. Flip did exactly what this guy was saying FLip doesn’t do anymore: Not playing young guys, riding the starters, etc… I think Amir got 5 minutes last night, Maxiell got like 9 minutes.
http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2008/03/blakely_pressures_on_flip_saun.html
Btw, LA is only 1 game behind us. IF we win the east (which I think is a pipe dream right now), I DEFINITELY don’t want to be playing a game 7 in SA or LA.
it was 1 game, jesus christ you guys. it sounds like some of you are ready to kill yourselves.
I don’t know how many of you are ready for it but, I see a Trenton Hassell starting at the 2 and Ben Gordon coming off the bench in the near future! So long Rip!
I’ve been saying this since the Boston loss… so its been 2 losses, 2 wins. Boston is gonna trounce us in the ECFs. Mostly because we THINK we’re the better team, and we’ll play like we have everything under control, then we’ll lose, and we’ll say that better team didn’t win. Any of this sound familiar?
I really love this blog and I think the people who post here are true and highly knowledgeable Piston fans — who really add to the blog.
However, the sky is falling attitude of some of you after every loss is starting to be annoying. The season is 82 games long and no team is going to be undefeated this year.
We make most of our free throws (like we usually do) and Sheed goes 3 for 7 from the 3 point line (instead of 1 of 7) and we all congratulate the Pistons on a great win.
Rip and other pistons will have bad games for lots of reasons - we need to keep the faith and not start dumping players — especially players who normally play hard and well — before the season is even over.
^^^ i 100% agree wit you. Phily i have to say are trying to avoid the Pistons in the first round and they played their hearts out. And for the Pistons despite the bad play, were already locked in 2nd place (2ND PLACE PEOPLE IN THE WHOLE NBA!!!)and Flip was just scrambling to see what pieces work and what pieces don’t work. I had NOOOOOO problem with Flip’s coaching because i saw what he was doing. He was trying to see which players woul fit well in certain situations. My biggest problem were the starters player more than 32 minutes and the bench not producing as much. I think it depends on the starters to dictate on how the game will be played, because i believe it would be passed down to the bench. AS long as the Pistons come out with energy and the starters don’t play more than 32 minutes then i’m fine with it (win or lose). We are already locked and i think the rest of the regular season games we should be focusing more on how the rotation would be and also resting the starters a lot more. If we do that then we would be just fine. Everybody just relax the Pistons will be fine. I’m not worried about Boston, CLevland, San Antonio, eet…I’m just focusing on our Detroit Pistons. Everybody has to believe and be grateful on the team we have and how long this team has been successful . 2007-2008 we should be celebrating on how great the 50 season were, not bashing them and FLip just because we lost a game. We are not perfect and we weren’t going to go 82-0.
LET’S GO PISTONS AND LET’S GET THAT SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2007-2008 IT’S OUR TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ALL BOUT DETROIT BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok. I’m not happy either but not as pissed as I usually am after a loss. Maybe cause I didn’t get to see this game but from what I’m reading, same-o same-o. We decided to take a night off. The sky isn’t falling gentlemen, I agree with others who had said that here. I think the thing that pisses everyone off is when we lay eggs against a Milwaukee or Philly. You can lose to any team on any given night. But we lay eggs too often. We have the 2nd best record in the league so we are in good shape, but what pisses me off is these decided nights off man. We had that nice Western swing where we could have gone 4-0 (damn Jazz man). But we are 7-5 since the all star break. I can’t do cartwheels about that gentlemen. I just can’t. I’m not slitting my wrist but I’m not very comfortable right now. I will agree that Boston looks hungry this year. I think 3-some there understands their window is short. Lakers look hungry also. We won’t win based simply on talent and teamwork. If we don’t start playing like our lives depend on it and close the season strong and on a roll. We may have issues my friends. But the sky is not falling…….although I see a few lingering rain clouds
GO PISTONS!!!
I wonder if their is an easily-available stat that would show what the overall record of Detroit and the rest of the top 6-8 teams, in “games they obviously should win.” We could define that as, say, home games with all the starters healthy where the opponent is under .500; and maybe add in road games against really bottom-feeder teams.
Obviously, Detroit has lost a few of those sorts of games. But have they lost more of those games than any of the top Western teams? I’ll bet without knowing for sure that Detroit has lost fewer of those games than any Eastern team except the Celitics.
Not that I’m happy about the loss — I do see the same problems, or potential problems, that others do. But it is going to be about peaking at the right time.
ok, took an hour to try to see what was going on with all those line-ups, there were 11 that i counted. I stopped counting when we put Afflalo in with about 30 seconds left, it wasn’t the normal flow of the game. caveats, i used the espn.com play by play and i’m not a statistician.
in order of most to least effectve:
Starters - +3
RS, RH, TP, JM, RW - +2
CB, AA, TP, AD, TR - +1
RS, RH, TP, AD, TR - +1
RS, AA, TP, JM, TR - 0
RS, JD, JH, AJ, TR - -1
RS, RH, JH, JM, RW - -3
CB, JD, TP, AD, TR - -4
CB, AA, TP, JM, TR - -4
CB, RH, TP, AD, TR - -5
RS, JD, TP, JM, TR - -5
things i find interesting:
1. The starters were only +3 on the night, that’s pretty pathetic.
2. Amir and Sheed were never on the court at the same time.
3. Our four worst units featured Tay and Theo. Three of those four also had Chauncey.
4. Has Theo really earned all this burn or are we still gauging what he has left?
I’m not worried about last night at all. Flip came out and publicly said a few days ago that he was gonna start tinkering with the rotation and combinations to see what works. The bench players seemed a little out of sorts because none of them got significant minutes and there was a lot of new combinations. Two guys who have been on the roster less than 3 weeks (Dixon & Ratliff)were on the court together for the first 3+ minutes of the 4th quarter. Philly has been playing decent ball recently… this game meant 100 times more to them than us.
DG4L,
“I think it depends on the starters to dictate on how the game will be played”
i agree that it should, but unfortunately it’s not panning out. too many times this season (including this game), the starters seem to not care until there is at least one bench player out there with them. Dixon and Ratliff are excellent for their veteran savvy, but they’re not pushing the tempo or the starters like the younger kids are. maybe this game helped flip realize that, but i worry.
well i would rather lose this game and still win the ’ship in the end
LET’S GO PISTONS AND LET’S GET THAT SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2007-2008 IT’S OUR TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ALL BOUT DETROIT BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
^ i meant i would rather win the ship no matter how many losses we pill up @ the end
LET’S GO PISTONS AND LET’S GET THAT SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2007-2008 IT’S OUR TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ALL BOUT DETROIT BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
New Orleans smoked the Spurs last night. Which makes me wonder if Spurs fans are as anxious as we are after losses and whether they nit-pick over who the 5th big man is and so on. Anyone know any good Spurs blogs?
Sorry, but these guys don’t have the desire and focus to win the title this year. This opinion isn’t based on any one particular game, just the overall attitude these Pistons have displayed. Find something else to cling to…
Kyle: the starters were only +3? Maybe as one collective unit, but individually they weren’t horrible:
http://www.nba.com/games/20080312/PHIDET/boxscore.html
The problem was the hole they dug for themselves early. Also, Sheed was on the court the entire time Amir was. I wrote this last night:
“It didn’t take long for Theo Ratliff to crack Detroit’s rotation – after three games in place of the injured Rasheed Wallace, he was the first big off the bench tonight following Wallace’s return. That doesn’t bode well for Detroit’s young bigs (Jason Maxiell and Amir Johnson), right?
Well, here’s my thinking: Ratliff is more a true center than either of the two young guys, and Saunders has said time and again that he likes to play Rasheed with the second unit, which he did for a long stretch in the second quarter. So Ratliff may not be stealing minutes from the young guys so much as facilitating a way for Saunders to put a more cohesive unit on the floor later.”
As for the constantly changing lineups, Saunders admitted after the game that he was just trying to find something that worked and couldn’t. I wish I had included that part in my post last night — maybe one of the beat reporters got it.
Dear No Chance
There really is nothing for you to base your opinion on because Detroit is hungry for a championship. If they lay an egg like yesterday during the playoffs then maybe you can come back with your opinion.
For now, all of the starters and reserves NEVER complained about losing playing time to the rookies and youngsters and players like Afflalo, Herrmann and Hayes have never complained of lack of playing time either.
All the Pistons know that if they play like they can and play as a team - they will win the ‘Ship
DICE, Sheed and now Theo know that this is probably their last chance and believe me when the playoffs start they will be playing extremely hard
I’m with NoChance!! We’re missing something. A championship level team mows these teams down with little to no effort (reference Boston.) We just don’t have it this year.
In all seriousness, the Sixers aren’t horrible, at least not lately (winning 13 of 17 games). Even when Detroit beat them twice this year they held the Pistons to 86 or fewer points. Should Detroit have won? Well, yeah. But I’m just saying — the Sixers are the type of team that catch a lot of teams off guard.
I think Brad and NO CHANCE are the same person
Brad: Kobe better be REALLY REALLY hungry, because this team generally owns him. Even when we got flat-out beat by them @ Staples this season, Kobe only had 19 on 6-18 shooting. I’m not worried about LA even if they have home-court advantage and if they have Bynum and Gasol.
San Antonio, I’m not so sure, but obviously in terms of “taking games off”, they do too when you see how they got pasted by the Hornets 100-75. And we went down there and beat them handily at the SBC Center on the back end of a back-to-back (night 1: an L v. Dallas) when they were playing on 2 days’ rest. Facing elimination, we won a Game 6 there and nearly won a Game 7. I don’t think that team now is as good as it was then. I think there are chinks in their armor.
As for DetroitGirl4Life, whom I refuse to call “DG4L” on principle, we do NOT have the 2nd best record in the league “locked” unless your definition of “locked” means for us to currently lead that race by ONE game. So I’d do your homework on that one next time, but you are right (among countless others in this thread like: IsraeliPiston, JesseC, ToledoJoe, E-Double just to name a few), who remind us that the sky is not falling and we should be grateful for our perpetual success.
And seriously, this ” No Chance!!!” character has got to stop. I suppose that all opinions are welcome, but not only are you a total downer, you seem to be revelling in your team’s (limited) misfortunes. If you’re going to convey a foolish opinion, at least do it without trying to incite certain backlash.
“If they lay an egg like yesterday during the playoffs then maybe you can come back with your opinion.”
It’s fairly easy to see, as Brad and I have, that this is exactly what they’ve done the past two seasons and are showing the same signs of post-season failure as they have in the past. Don’t flip the argument, the Pistons are in the position of having to prove that they can get out of the East since they’ve blown it two times in a row. If they lose in the ECF or sooner, they’ll fail to live up to their expectations, yet again.
Really, some of you are acting like I dissed your mother. I even noticed that one of you mentioned during the game that since you as a fan couldn’t get up for the Sixers game, you couldn’t blame the startes for not bringing some energy either. That reasoning is downright moronic. These players are getting paid thousands upon thousands of dollars to play a 48-minute game of basketball in front of thousands of fans. If they can’t get up for that, **** ‘em. They lack the passion that will win a title. Boston has it, LA seems to have something brewing, Spurs are the Spurs, and Cleveland even has Detroit sweating them.
End of an era folks, let it go gracefully…
umm, I just checked the standings and the Pistons are still at the top of the league in standings. Honestly, I’d rather see Theo get integrated into the lineup now than have him come off the bench with no preparation like last season during Game 6 with Nazr coming off the bench against CLE. He looked like he was lost out there having not played significant minutes for the last half of the season.
Face it, Amir brings energy off the bench and so does Max. Both of those guys are PF. None of those guys can consistently box out guys that have height and 50 pounds on them. It’s time to put Theo in the rotation, Max and Amir will get their time at PF. We know Sheed will be in foul trouble when Anderson Varejao and KG are flopping around. Theo needs some run, he’s shown that he’s more capable of being active than Dale Davis was last season. Davis is/was a battering ram, that was his purpose. Theo can actually be athletic and make moves and rebound efficiently and block shots with athleticism rather than just height.
matt w., you’re right. unfortunately espn.com doesn’t announce who starts each quarter, just who gets subbed in during. so my research is complete bullshit. son of bitch. and yes, for what it’s worth, that was as they played with each other as the five starter unit.
i still find this interesting. it was 10-9 76′ers when sheed left the game and theo came in. when the next substitution was made (Afflalo), we were down 23-16. Theo is great and will probably get more minutes than max or amir, but he doesn’t make the starters play harder, like those guys do.
I changed my expectations after the loss to Boston. I expect Detroit to lose in the ECFs. If they win I’ll be ecstatic.
They had a run earlier in the year where they were just rampaging through teams. That first 10 game win streak, I think. We were playing championship level ball then. If we can get back to that we got a shot, but I don’t think we can flip a switch any more. I think we THINK we can flip a switch, but the bodies might not be as able as they used to be. Plus, the years we could flip a switch it was about playing lock down defense. There’s a number of reasons we can’t do that anymore… mostly rule changes, but also age and no more Ben Wallace factor in as well.
If we can get back to playing that caliber of basketball, I’ll change my expectations again, but I’m not giving this team the benefit of the doubt after the last 2(and you can almost say 3) years of underacheiving.
Just for clarity, and yes I realize that ya’ll probably aren’t talking about me but:
I never said the sky was falling. I really don’t think last night’s game affects the Piston’s playoff situation at all.
All I said was “I’m sick of wasting my time watching a team that isn’t interested half the time”….
To illustrate my point please just imagine the following scenario:
You have two kids and a girlfriend who hates basketball. You finally convince her to come to the Palace last night by agreeing to bring both kids. You’ve spent 30 bucks on DRINKS before the opening tip off……. and that’s the game you watch. Would you STILL be saying “hey, it’s just ONE game”? I doubt it very much.
I love the Pistons but I’m starting to HATE this other team that shows up every time we play a “Should Win” game… and yes I KNOW they usually pull those wins out anyways, but that’s the problem to be honest. The impression one gets watching the team is that they STILL feel “entitled” to wins regardless of effort.
As for Flip, RIGHT ON, it’s about damn TIME you came out and said what we all see right infront of us… Good job, seriously I freaking mean that.
No Chance!!! seriously, do us all a favor and just shut the hell up, please. Brad may be in your camp in terms of viewpoint, but at least he brings some thought and value with his opinion. You’re going to lambast the Pistons and then give me evidence like: “Spurs are Spurs”? Really? You’re going to question our hunger and the best point you can prove for the Spurs is that they’re “the Spurs”. Wow, bravo. Apparently the Spurs’ desire can be a given, but the Pistons’ can’t. I didn’t know that. I, for one, think something is off with the Spurs this year and they won’t be coming out of the West. I don’t have a crystal ball, but I also don’t have a penchant for provocation and weak arguments amid a generally intelligent, rational, well-thought community, as you seem to have.
“If they can’t get up for it (re: the Sixers game) [expletive] them”. Really? You’ve never mailed it in at the office? You’re paid to be there. You studied dilligently for every test you ever took in school? Your education depends on your scores. Face it, sometimes what seems to be a worthwhile motivation doesn’t help at all. Sometimes the Pistons thump teams (ie: The Suns recently) and sometimes they get thumped (like the embarrassing thumping the Knicks gave to them @MSG back in January). We’re not the team that thumped the Suns and we’re not the team that got thumped by the Knicks. We’re somewhere in between. Boston, LA, San Antonio, Houston, New Orleans, and maybe more are in that same category as us. The playoffs are there to determine who will emerge from the group. And the truth is, as much as some of us believe in the Pistons, they haven’t given us any reason to crown them yet and they haven’t given us any reason to down them. They’ve given us a reason to believe that they have a legitimate chance (just like the aforementioned teams) to win the Larry O’Brien Trophy. But apparently, examining their legitimacy is not how you care to evaluate things.
First, Detroit could well lose to Boston in the ECF, or to the Spurs or Lakers in the Finals.
But Brad, you say that other teams “mow” through these sorts of games. I’m not so sure they do any better than Detroit. You cite the Celtics, but Boston is on pace to have the best record the NBA has seen in years. Detroit still has the second-best record in the league and still is on pace to win close to 60 games — which is more than the Spurs won last year, than the Heat won the year before, and than the Pistons won in their championship year. So, some pretty great teams must have lost some games like this one.
And “almost say three years of underachieving”? Not sure what you mean by “almost,” but if losing to the Spurs — the best franchise in the NBA over the past 5 years or so — in a close game 7 in the Finals could be called “underachieving,” well, you have pretty high standards. Two years ago, Detroit lost in the ECF to the eventual NBA champion Heat, who were peaking at the right time.
The loss to the Cavs last year was a bitter pill to swallow, but let’s face it: Detroit had a terrible bench (as it did the previous year when losing to Miami). It wasn’t just clearly the worst bench of any serious contender; it was, by any objective measure, one of the worst in the whole frickin’ league (and I say that loving McDyess).
Flip does need to figure out minutes among the bigs now that Ratliff is here, and also minutes among the guards. I guess Stuckey is the #3, but what about Dixon, Afflalo, and oh yeah remember Lindsey Hunter?. Maybe we’ll lose a few games along the way working that out. And again, maybe we’ll lose to Boston no matter what we do, because let’s face it, Boston is very much for real. But this team needs to aim to peak during the playoffs, and there are some things to work on before then.
Brad and No Chance, I see your points but I think it’s an overreaction to say the Pistons CAN’T win the championship.
However, I also disagree with the opinion that if the Pistons play up to their potential that they WILL win the championship.
This promises to be the most exciting NBA playoffs in ages. There are more than two teams in each conference that are capable of winning it all and no one can say with any certainty what’s going to happen.
The wisest words have come from (I think) Rob G when he stated that we was just going to simply enjoy cheering on his favorite team this April, May and hopefully June.
I use what the players expect of themselves. Hasn’t Chauncey himself said HE believes we had the best team in the league the last 3 years? After we lost to SA weren’t we kicking ourselves for not having home court advantage… so we went out and won 64 games… then we’re kicking ourselves for running out of gas against Miami… then we get LeBronned and Dumars mandates that complacency won’t be tolerated… now we’re sitting here saying they’ll be fine for the playoffs.
Aren’t we running out of excuses why we lose games to Philly, or don’t get up to play Boston, or lose to Cleveland(or Miami) in the ECFs? I have. And shouldn’t it light a fire under someones behind that Posey was taunting Detroit fans after they won on OUR court (and celebrating like they won the title)? This ugly complacency thing is rearing its head again, and everybody saying that’s its not a big deal. PG4L, talks about this “other” team showing up, and she’s spot on. Its getting old… very, very old.
OT: Really Lions? You’re gonna release Kalimba Edwards AND Kevin Jones? Do you have a clue? I am seriously going to have to find another NFL team to root for. I don’t think I can support such an inept franchise.
Quick Darshan: I can think of two teams in the East that could win it all (Detroit and Boston), but not more. Do you really think the Cavs or Magic can win it all?
Brad:
I recall Chauncey saying that “the better team didn’t win” or words to that effect after losing to the Cavs last year. I don’t remember him saying Detroit has been the best team in the NBA for the past three years. And is he supposed to say, “we have the best starting five, but our lousy bench is hurting us?” Because that would have been the honest answer in the last two (and maybe three) years.
Beyond that, all the things that bother you bother me, but my questions remains: isn’t true that in the past several years, all the other elite and championship teams have had losses like the one Detroit had last night? And given that Detroit is on pace to have a better final regular season record than the last several champions have had, is there any evidence Detroit has had more of these sorts of losses? I’ll give you this year’s Celtics (so far) as an exception, but beyond that?
Ah. I didn’t go to DBB to read the comments after the game for this very reason. A one-point loss in March has become a portent of doom for all of Detroit. Apparently, Boston has already won the championship due to their dominance. The Pistons will fail. The Spurs will repeat. Hell, the Suns will get their ’ship this year. All because the Pistons lost. By one point. In March.
oh the horror! the humanity!
I think Brad and No Chance are actually right… We’re on pace to win 60 games. Chauncey is having a career best year. Flip and Rasheed are getting along. Our bench is arguably stronger than it has been in years.
we’re doomed everybody. sell your pistons memorabilia.
And be VERY afraid of Boston. Just like Chicago did last season, Boston is dominating us in the regular season. Remember what happened to Chicago in the post-season? Wait, scratch that. nevermind.
we’re doomed. sell the franchise to seattle.
Toledo Joe, I meant to write “at least two teams in each conference.” But, that’s still impressive. I can’t think of the last time one could say that. Maybe when Jordan’s Bulls first beat the Pistons. Or when the Bad Boy Pistons first beat the Celtics and the Lakers were on the other side?
This is going to be a great playoffs (first round of the Eastern Conference playoffs notwithstanding).
There are some really sensitive people around here. But, facts are facts…
Boston is a better team than last year’s Cavs and Miami’s championship team. Detroit isn’t going to get past them. Orlando will end up being a bigger struggle than most of you seem to realize.
The Piston’s starters and a lot of their fans have a huge entitlement complex they need to resolve.
I laugh when I see some of these followers waste their energy writing posts citing Detroit’s updated bench as the secret ingredient that will get them over the top this season. That would make for a good point, well, if Flip Saunders understood how to use his bench that is! Besides, there have been flashes of potential at best from the younger players, but nothing to indicate a bench that is capable of extending and holding leads in playoff games, especially against the leagues best teams.
Relax people, I’m sure there will be something to smile about this summer after the Pistons get knocked out of the playoffs, but it’s easier if you just give yourself reasonable expectations. Detroit getting to the finals and winning doesn’t qualify as a reasonable expectation for this team as it is currently constructed and coached.
This team could be great, but it’s not. Just like those of you that disagree with me could be right, but you’re not!
Dear No Chance!!!…. Despite agreeing with a couple of things you’ve said I can HONESTLY say that NOW you’re just looking for a fight… that last post was simply an inflamatory repeat of things you’ve already said… in this light I recomend the following:
http://www.salagir.com/gfx/troll-web.jpg
I for one can promise that I won’t even be READING future posts from your account, let alone replying.