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	<title>Comments on: Are the Pistons really playing fewer minutes?</title>
	<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/</link>
	<description>A Detroit Pistons blog</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 04:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2</generator>
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		<title>By: Saunders open to keeping deep rotation in playoffs &#124; Detroit Bad Boys</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-129783</link>
		<dc:creator>Saunders open to keeping deep rotation in playoffs &#124; Detroit Bad Boys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-129783</guid>
		<description>[...] what conventional basketball wisdom says teams are supposed to do. A little bit ago, I argued that perhaps the Pistons ought to ignore that school of thought since their ability to bring a steady stream of rested players off the bench might be what&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] what conventional basketball wisdom says teams are supposed to do. A little bit ago, I argued that perhaps the Pistons ought to ignore that school of thought since their ability to bring a steady stream of rested players off the bench might be what&#8217;s [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Empty the Bench - Fantasy Sports, Fantasy Football, Fantasy Basketball, NFL, NBA</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128799</link>
		<dc:creator>Empty the Bench - Fantasy Sports, Fantasy Football, Fantasy Basketball, NFL, NBA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 04:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128799</guid>
		<description>[...] - The 700 Level - Allen Iverson got a standing ovation during his first game back in Philly. - Detroit Bad Boys - Detroit&#8217;s starters say they&#8217;re fresher than last year, but is it true? - Basketball [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] - The 700 Level - Allen Iverson got a standing ovation during his first game back in Philly. - Detroit Bad Boys - Detroit&#8217;s starters say they&#8217;re fresher than last year, but is it true? - Basketball [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Siegfried</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128662</link>
		<dc:creator>Siegfried</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128662</guid>
		<description>Not all minutes are created equal: Chauncey was playing for a contract last year and couldn't afford an injury, Sheed was at war with the referees, Rip was being man-handled on a nightly basis and the bench sucked. Mental fatigue more than too many minutes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not all minutes are created equal: Chauncey was playing for a contract last year and couldn&#8217;t afford an injury, Sheed was at war with the referees, Rip was being man-handled on a nightly basis and the bench sucked. Mental fatigue more than too many minutes.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128661</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128661</guid>
		<description>or maybe as starters they're used and featured as integral parts of the offense instead of just "energy guys" who do the garbage work. they were slashers on a team that had no use for slashers, i think that should be kept in mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>or maybe as starters they&#8217;re used and featured as integral parts of the offense instead of just &#8220;energy guys&#8221; who do the garbage work. they were slashers on a team that had no use for slashers, i think that should be kept in mind.</p>
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		<title>By: LawyerBoy</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128660</link>
		<dc:creator>LawyerBoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:35:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128660</guid>
		<description>Kyle - No, we can't.  Charlotte and Indiana are HORRIBLE teams.  Their standards for a starting-caliber player are far worse than ours.  Also, the type of player who fits the mold as a bench player is usually (as discussed in this post) a high energy guy, and/or a defensive stopper and/or a killer jump shooter.  Nazr and Flip Murray aren't these kinds.  Flip Murray is actually better as a starter than he is coming off the bench.  He's not particularly wonderful at either.  Long story short, the bench still did suck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kyle - No, we can&#8217;t.  Charlotte and Indiana are HORRIBLE teams.  Their standards for a starting-caliber player are far worse than ours.  Also, the type of player who fits the mold as a bench player is usually (as discussed in this post) a high energy guy, and/or a defensive stopper and/or a killer jump shooter.  Nazr and Flip Murray aren&#8217;t these kinds.  Flip Murray is actually better as a starter than he is coming off the bench.  He&#8217;s not particularly wonderful at either.  Long story short, the bench still did suck.</p>
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		<title>By: James B.</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128657</link>
		<dc:creator>James B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128657</guid>
		<description>Fadel,

A couple of things that you don't make mention of which either could or will have an effect on total minutes.

1)  I would look at the minutes per player for the two years prior to last year as well to get a better sense of what they average year in and year out.

2) Although taking their averages and extrapolating them out over the remainder of the season makes some amount of sense, here are some reasons why the numbers you have used will likely be higher.
- For a team locked into the 2 seed, we should expect to see the end of the bench get more playing time during the last 10 games or so.
- Rasheed/Rip and technicals.  This could lead to single game suspensions in both cases if they both feel like getting to that point this season.  While I think that neither one of them will, this could have a drastic effect on total minutes played.

I don't really think that total minutes per season has as much of an effect as minutes per game, but had last season been a better comparison to this one (ie - days missed due to injury being equivalen), then we'd obviously see the drop in total minutes for the season that is expected from a drop in minutes per game.

Ultimately, I think that total minutes played should only be looked at when taking in to consideration a player's career.  For instance, I am worried that Tayshaun's career will be shortened due to wear and tear simply because he's never injured and he's played in every single game since he was made a starter.

To use your work week comparison, an individual who works 45-50 hours a week for a year may not be burnt out on the job after a year, but an employee who continues to work 45-50 hours per week year after year is likely to become burnt out sooner than someone working 35-40 hours a week year after year.  Why do I use an overtime scenario vs. and undertime scenario?  Well to be honest, to play in every single game and to play the most minutes of any starter in every single game is really more like working 50 hours/week than 40.  And in contrast, working 35-40 hours a week would be the equivalent of your average NBA starter who misses 10-15 games a year due to mild non-career ending injuries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fadel,</p>
<p>A couple of things that you don&#8217;t make mention of which either could or will have an effect on total minutes.</p>
<p>1)  I would look at the minutes per player for the two years prior to last year as well to get a better sense of what they average year in and year out.</p>
<p>2) Although taking their averages and extrapolating them out over the remainder of the season makes some amount of sense, here are some reasons why the numbers you have used will likely be higher.<br />
- For a team locked into the 2 seed, we should expect to see the end of the bench get more playing time during the last 10 games or so.<br />
- Rasheed/Rip and technicals.  This could lead to single game suspensions in both cases if they both feel like getting to that point this season.  While I think that neither one of them will, this could have a drastic effect on total minutes played.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really think that total minutes per season has as much of an effect as minutes per game, but had last season been a better comparison to this one (ie - days missed due to injury being equivalen), then we&#8217;d obviously see the drop in total minutes for the season that is expected from a drop in minutes per game.</p>
<p>Ultimately, I think that total minutes played should only be looked at when taking in to consideration a player&#8217;s career.  For instance, I am worried that Tayshaun&#8217;s career will be shortened due to wear and tear simply because he&#8217;s never injured and he&#8217;s played in every single game since he was made a starter.</p>
<p>To use your work week comparison, an individual who works 45-50 hours a week for a year may not be burnt out on the job after a year, but an employee who continues to work 45-50 hours per week year after year is likely to become burnt out sooner than someone working 35-40 hours a week year after year.  Why do I use an overtime scenario vs. and undertime scenario?  Well to be honest, to play in every single game and to play the most minutes of any starter in every single game is really more like working 50 hours/week than 40.  And in contrast, working 35-40 hours a week would be the equivalent of your average NBA starter who misses 10-15 games a year due to mild non-career ending injuries.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128655</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128655</guid>
		<description>now that three of our bench castaways are starters (four if you count mcdyess), can we put to rest the whole "we didn't play the bench because they sucked" storyline from the past two years?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>now that three of our bench castaways are starters (four if you count mcdyess), can we put to rest the whole &#8220;we didn&#8217;t play the bench because they sucked&#8221; storyline from the past two years?</p>
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		<title>By: Diablo</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128653</link>
		<dc:creator>Diablo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128653</guid>
		<description>Something I made today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_iWCv_G8qI

A little late...I know but Enjoy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something I made today.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_iWCv_G8qI" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_iWCv_G8qI</a></p>
<p>A little late&#8230;I know but Enjoy!</p>
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		<title>By: Sauce1977</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128652</link>
		<dc:creator>Sauce1977</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128652</guid>
		<description>Here's the other thing that makes me lol.

Detroit plays the slowest pace in the league, according to Hollinger's team statistics.  Basically, Detroit's starters should theoretically feel refreshed, despite logging about 100 games every year for a half-decade.

Re: tonight, Denver, well, they have the fastest pace (faster than Golden State).  So, I'm looking forward to that battle of wills, again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the other thing that makes me lol.</p>
<p>Detroit plays the slowest pace in the league, according to Hollinger&#8217;s team statistics.  Basically, Detroit&#8217;s starters should theoretically feel refreshed, despite logging about 100 games every year for a half-decade.</p>
<p>Re: tonight, Denver, well, they have the fastest pace (faster than Golden State).  So, I&#8217;m looking forward to that battle of wills, again.</p>
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		<title>By: Shinons</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128651</link>
		<dc:creator>Shinons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128651</guid>
		<description>@Jesse - also Nazr has already logged more minutes as a Bobcat that he did during his entire stint as a Piston. Wow!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jesse - also Nazr has already logged more minutes as a Bobcat that he did during his entire stint as a Piston. Wow!</p>
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		<title>By: Quick Darshan</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128648</link>
		<dc:creator>Quick Darshan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128648</guid>
		<description>Cutting minutes will mean nothing if the starters aren't going all out for the 36 or so minutes they are out there.

Win or lose, I just want to see this team rotating promptly on defense and cutting hard away from the ball on offense for 48 minutes.  And I want to see the bench players sprint up and down the court every time (even if 99% of the time they have to pull back and set up the half court offense).

At this point, Boston is the better team, but hopefully they don't have another gear.  It's going to take 48 minutes of energy to beat them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cutting minutes will mean nothing if the starters aren&#8217;t going all out for the 36 or so minutes they are out there.</p>
<p>Win or lose, I just want to see this team rotating promptly on defense and cutting hard away from the ball on offense for 48 minutes.  And I want to see the bench players sprint up and down the court every time (even if 99% of the time they have to pull back and set up the half court offense).</p>
<p>At this point, Boston is the better team, but hopefully they don&#8217;t have another gear.  It&#8217;s going to take 48 minutes of energy to beat them.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob G</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128646</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128646</guid>
		<description>"I say bring on the minutes and keep away the injuries."

I will light a candle in front of my Arnie Kander shrine for us...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I say bring on the minutes and keep away the injuries.&#8221;</p>
<p>I will light a candle in front of my Arnie Kander shrine for us&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: JesseC</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128645</link>
		<dc:creator>JesseC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128645</guid>
		<description>I just want to point out that our former 13th man (Flip Murray) is now the STARTING PG for the Pacers.  I'm sure there are few teams out there that would love to have Fabio as their starting 3/4.  Ridiculous depth!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just want to point out that our former 13th man (Flip Murray) is now the STARTING PG for the Pacers.  I&#8217;m sure there are few teams out there that would love to have Fabio as their starting 3/4.  Ridiculous depth!</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128644</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128644</guid>
		<description>it seems common sense, but is there any sort of metric that would show if the odds of injury goes down playing fewer minutes? or less than 40 specifically?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it seems common sense, but is there any sort of metric that would show if the odds of injury goes down playing fewer minutes? or less than 40 specifically?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128643</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-03-18/are-the-pistons-really-playing-fewer-minutes/#comment-128643</guid>
		<description>In my opinion the important things when it comes to minutes are

1.  Games missed due to injury

Players who are injured are just less effective when they return from injury.  Some players never get back to their pre-injury effectiveness.  For some players it can take up to a year after they return and for some it might be only a game or two (minor injury)

Bottom line on injuries is that it is always best to have fewer injuries and no major injuries even if it increases the minutes played by a player over the year by not having the injuries.

I think minutes played per game is overrated.  Unfortunately the NBA has become like pitching in baseball.   Starters minutes and innings have been gradually reduced over the years which leads to the best players being in the game for a lower percentage of the time and fans having to suffer through bench players minutes.

As excited as we might be about our bench this year there is reason that these guys are coming off the bench.  They are not as good as are starters.  Granted from time to time they bring energy and can be very productive, but over the course of the season better basketball is played by the starters.

Wilt played over 48 minutes a game one year and averaged 50 points and 26 rebounds a game that year.  On a per 36 minute basis for him that year his 37.4 ppg was the highest of his career.  So in the year that he played the most minutes per game he averaged the most points per minute.

His rebounds per minute that year was the 4th highest of his career.

I have never bought this argument that the fewer minutes per game the better a player performs.

We lost the Cavs last year because we went into mental and physical lockout that game when he scored 29 points in a row or whatever it was.  Our players stopped responding to his moves.

The other games that we lost were due mostly to the Cavs exceptional 3 point shooting in those games.

When Billups says that he feels more refreshed this year, it is my opinion due to the fact that he feels a lot less stressed out because he knows he has a good backup in Stuckey and because in a a lot of the games this year we blew people out reducing his stress level.  Billups was also injured last year which I am sure affected how he felt even after he returned.

KG has averaged 38 minutes a game for his career and basically has been injury free playing in 76 or more games each year (not counting this year because it isn't complete) except for one year.

I say bring on the minutes and keep away the injuries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my opinion the important things when it comes to minutes are</p>
<p>1.  Games missed due to injury</p>
<p>Players who are injured are just less effective when they return from injury.  Some players never get back to their pre-injury effectiveness.  For some players it can take up to a year after they return and for some it might be only a game or two (minor injury)</p>
<p>Bottom line on injuries is that it is always best to have fewer injuries and no major injuries even if it increases the minutes played by a player over the year by not having the injuries.</p>
<p>I think minutes played per game is overrated.  Unfortunately the NBA has become like pitching in baseball.   Starters minutes and innings have been gradually reduced over the years which leads to the best players being in the game for a lower percentage of the time and fans having to suffer through bench players minutes.</p>
<p>As excited as we might be about our bench this year there is reason that these guys are coming off the bench.  They are not as good as are starters.  Granted from time to time they bring energy and can be very productive, but over the course of the season better basketball is played by the starters.</p>
<p>Wilt played over 48 minutes a game one year and averaged 50 points and 26 rebounds a game that year.  On a per 36 minute basis for him that year his 37.4 ppg was the highest of his career.  So in the year that he played the most minutes per game he averaged the most points per minute.</p>
<p>His rebounds per minute that year was the 4th highest of his career.</p>
<p>I have never bought this argument that the fewer minutes per game the better a player performs.</p>
<p>We lost the Cavs last year because we went into mental and physical lockout that game when he scored 29 points in a row or whatever it was.  Our players stopped responding to his moves.</p>
<p>The other games that we lost were due mostly to the Cavs exceptional 3 point shooting in those games.</p>
<p>When Billups says that he feels more refreshed this year, it is my opinion due to the fact that he feels a lot less stressed out because he knows he has a good backup in Stuckey and because in a a lot of the games this year we blew people out reducing his stress level.  Billups was also injured last year which I am sure affected how he felt even after he returned.</p>
<p>KG has averaged 38 minutes a game for his career and basically has been injury free playing in 76 or more games each year (not counting this year because it isn&#8217;t complete) except for one year.</p>
<p>I say bring on the minutes and keep away the injuries.</p>
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