There’s no shortage of people screaming “complacency!” after last night’s game, both in the mainstream media and the comments of this blog. From ESPN’s Chris Broussard:
I have no doubt that Detroit is good enough — on paper — to win the East. But for the umpteenth time, the Pistons don’t appear to be good enough — between the ears — to reach the finals.
How many times does their own complacency and cockiness have to bite them in the rear for them to wake up and bring their A-game seven straight times in a series?
The Pistons’ Game 1 loss to Philly on Sunday was just the latest example of them giving away a game because of their tendency to lapse during contests.
As for me, I’m just not buying it. An offensive lapse is not the same as “complacency” or “cockiness.” The Pistons didn’t stop trying in Game 1, they stopped producing.
We all watched the game so we all have our theories for what happened, but the biggest difference I noticed between last night and the 82 games that preceded it was the sudden change in rotation. (Silly mistakes like missed free throws down the stretch and ill-timed goofing off stick out the most, but for the most part those are flukes; I’m more concerned about why the team didn’t blow this game open when they had a chance.)
I can understand tightening up the rotation against a tough playoff opponent, but if a 21-year-old Louis Williams and a 20-year-old Thaddeus Young can handle the pressure of the postseason, I have a hunch the Zoo Crew can, as well. Kevin Garnett made Amir Johnson look silly. Samuel Dalembert and Reggie Evans do not have that ability.
Don’t get me wrong, Maxiell played great, but the stretches in which he disappeared would have been better-served going to Johnson. For some reason Johnson’s playing time has been a somewhat controversial topic, but there’s no denying that the guy brings energy and forces the opposition to think twice about going into the lane.
Does he sometimes commit bad fouls? Yes. But does he sometimes chase down rebounds no one else can get to? Yes. Is he the most athletic player on the floor who goes all out and brings energy and provides a welcome spark? Always.
All season long the development of the bench has been a primary focus of the team, but I’m slightly worried that the coaching staff thinks Joe Dumars had them jump through those hoops simply to preserve the starters for the playoffs instead of, you know, actually giving the team more bullets to use. The same thing happened to Maxiell last season, when he was frequently ignored in the playoffs (he played fewer than six minutes in six of 14 postseason games last year) after proving his worth in the regular season.
I know some of you will write off my complaints as yet another screed hyping up a guy who doesn’t deserve it, but this isn’t just about Johnson, it’s about developing a trust beyond the starting five and/or players drafted in the mid 90’s. If you like, you can apply this same argument to Rodney Stuckey, who played 13 minutes on Saturday after averaging 19.5 minutes in February, 19.3 minutes in March and 27.3 minutes in April.
Seriously, check out his game log: since the end of January, Stuckey played 13 minutes or fewer in a game only twice before last night’s game. Why change things up for the seventh-seeded, sub-.500 Sixers?
If someone knows the answer, I’d really like to know, and I’m sure guys like Stuckey, Johnson, Jarvis Hayes and Arron Afflalo would, too …
In any case, here’s some other worthwhile recaps from around the web:
- TrueHoop’s Pistons-Sixers Bullets (with a cameo from our own LawyerBoy)
- Kelly Dwyer’s Behind the Boxscore
- Need4Sheed’s Stunned at the Palace
- PistonsNation’s Ehh … What? and The Difference Between Then and Now
- Full-Court Press’ Would playing the bench have made a difference?
There are other good ones, I’m sure, but I’m not inclined to seek them out, and I doubt you’d want to relive the game, either.
Sixers fan here. Gotta agree that the the “unmotivated” defense sounds thin. Unmotivated to win the first playoff game in your own building? Don’t buy it. Instead, both the Pistons, and perhaps yourself, are underestimating the Sixers.
But this is now 2 straight wins in Detroit for a young Sixers team growing into their talent. This is not a fluke, especially when the Sixers did not play their best game either. Will they win the series, I’m still hesitant to put my money down, but the Pistons players have to be a bit nervous.
Amen, Matt
Morty, love the homer attitude, but ya got no chance, and your team isn’t really talented, they just work real hard. You can only underestimate the impact of effort so much. It’ll catch up with them.
Matt, for me, Stuckey looked tentative (which I thought he had outgrown) in terms of leading, so I don’t blame Flip for yanking him. I want to see him attacking the rim like it stole something from him. Stuckey needs to get to the line or get on the bench.
Homer attitude? Did you read the part where I said I’m not putting my money on the Sixers to take the series?
Geez…
So I guess you’re buying the complacency line? Did you simply think the Sixers played out of their minds (Reggie Evans excepted)? An unrepeatable event?
“Kevin Garnett made Amir Johnson look silly.”
With all due respect to you Matt, I can’t believe you wrote that.
KG is not going to get into the HOF because Amir is only guy he has made look silly.
Geez. KG arguably one of the top 5 players in our generation and people get on Amir because KG lit him up in Boston of all places, the first time that Amir was asked to guard him.
“Did you simply think the Sixers played out of their minds?”
I think the 76ers made alot of shots going down the stretch that they wouldn’t have made in any other game against the Pistons. I’m not buying an “up-and-coming 76ers team that is about to take over the thrown” line, if the Pistons fail to beat the 76ers,then they beat themselves, again.
Mike: I know KG is an HOF talent, that’s why I used him as an example. I wasn’t faulting Amir at all for looking silly, I was trying to make the distinction that Philly doesn’t have that kind of HOF talent.
(Honestly, this may have been the first time someone has ever accused me of getting on Amir’s case.)
I’m a huge Lou Williams fan, but they already have a good player at PG. What they need is a good SG (or two) and more consistency and depth for their front line. Their depth is paper thin across the board and that roster has as many holes as a slice of swiss cheese. Pistons fans are not underestimating anything. I never said anything about who you thought would win, I’m just saying, Game 1 IS a fluke and your squad isn’t as good as you’re leading on. If you push the series to 6, I’ll be impressed.
The Sixers will never recover from Magic making Dr. J. and his henchmen look like silly.
Matt, i’m going home for the day, so i’ll have to wait to see how the rest of this thread plays out, but I’m not with you on the 12 man rotation for the playoffs. No coach or team is ever going to run 12 at you and win. In the regular season, it was done to give the young guys a chance to show what they can do, and to rest the starters. It was not done so that we could run out a dixon/hayes/johnson/maxiell/afflalo squad against other teams. I know that the bench has to have confidence in their minutes and provide a spark against the other teams subs. But to mention the KG thing, to me, means that at least against lesser opponents, you think we should be running line changes, then tighten up the rotation against the big boys? Championship teams run 8-9 deep, then empty the bench in garbage time. Herrmann isn’t going to be the difference maker. Neither is Dixon. The starters are going to have to get it done for 35-40 minutes a game (dyse excluded), and the subs are going to have to make it stick or pick up the slack. I personally don’t agree with cutting stuckey’s minutes for Hunter, but going 7 deep on the bench is not going to work. Matt, your post, where making excuses for a bad game happen.
Ok, I agree that the rotation shouldn’t be *changed,* but I really do disagree that one should look to a bench player’s average minutes & expect the #s to be similar for playoff games & games in March or April. That’s seriously wrong.
We wanted our starting 5 fresh for the playoffs. Although they often played around 25 to 35 minutes in the regular season, we should now want our starting five to be logging 32 to 40 minutes a game, IMO. As a result, our bench guys are just going to have to see their minutes go down, and it’s not a bad thing. Who do you want out there in the playoffs: Chauncey & Rip or Rodney & Jarvis?
It’s all well & good for Rodney & Jarvis & Max & Amir to eat up some regular season minutes and prepare them for the future, but the playoffs is about playing your best guys & going for broke in the quest for 16 wins. Chauncey & Rip & Sheed & co can handle 20-some games of 40mpg, but not 100+, and that’s why we have the bench playing more in the regular season.
Craig: Who’s advocating Herrmann or Dixon getting minutes? They rarely played in the regular season, so I’m not calling for them to play now. I’m just saying that guys who were productive within the normal flow of the game during the first 82 deserve to get burn in the playoffs.
Developing a bench didn’t just save the wear and tear of the starters, it also enabled them to go balls out for 32-34 minutes a game instead of playing at three-quarter speed for 40. Maybe because their raw stats don’t show it people don’t realize it, but the starters were more effective in each game this year because they played fewer minutes. Asking them to play more minutes now just because it’s the postseason is counterintuitive.
I see I posted something similar to Craig, although I forgot to qualify my comment about the starting 5 to exclude McDyess as he did. Tay, Sheed, Rip & Chauncey, tho, are all guys we want & need to play 35-40 in the playoffs.
Frankly I was not surprised by the Piston’s rotation. We got what we needed from the bench to get a win. It’s the starters that couldn’t close it out. The messing around on court with the game on the line made me sick.
Let me just say though that the way we subbed out all five guys during the tail end of the season was totally unrealistic which stunted cohesion between reservers and starters and took us out of a game-to-game rhythm going into the playoffs.
“Where changing the rotation for no reason happens” — that about covers it. The question you have to ask yourself is how much better is Tay’s 40th minute than a fresh Hayes, Rip’s 40th minute than a fresh Afflalo, Chauncey’s 40th minute than a fresh Stuckey. My answer would be “no difference” and all other things being equal it’s better to show confidence in your team, your whole team, and play the way you got to the playoffs. I’m not blaming fatigue or the rotation for one loss (the team played like crap) but if we see a similar effort and rotation in a series loss to the Sixers or Orlando then there needs to be a change on the bench and I’m not talking about activating Walter Herrmann.
No one argues that a dunk or a block can energize a basketball team. So why do people resist the idea that Amir Johnson might actually enhance the quality of our starters simply by playing hard? Even when the loose balls and contested layups don’t show up in the stat line, no one wants to be shown up as a slacker by a teammate who’s busting his ass.
Our guys are proud, if a little jaded. They’ll respond if someone sets the tone, and the kid can do that. If that means the 76ers get a few extra free throws, I’ll trade that for an energized Pistons team any day.
I don’t understand why people (DBB and media) are dogging Rasheed for hopping into the Philly huddle. That’s what Rasheed does to keep Rasheed from going crazy. Perhaps it’s the joking around that helps to keep him focused when he might go nuts from the pressure. No one can argue the fact that Rasheed has always been reluctant in his superstar role. I don’t remember complaints when Rasheed was making faces behind Reggie Miller in Game 5 of the first round of the 2006 playoffs. That’s probably because we won by 29. Much like the faces behind Miller pre-Game 5 Round 1 in ‘06, I don’t think being in the Philly huddle had any effect on whether Sheed makes the shot or not. He missed the shot; he was in the huddle. Truthfully, we can’t prove that the former was caused by the latter. It seems unreasonable to me. The relationship between being in the huddle and missing the shot is correlative, they happened sequentially, but no one can prove one caused the other.
I just don’t get the furor over Sheed being Sheed.
OK, we’ll have to agree to disagree.
What I saw was neither the Sixers nor the Pistons making field goals down the stretch, just like the last time these 2 teams played in Detroit - another Sixers win. Other than the Evans turnaround, which I’ll grant you was extremely unlikely, they looked liked the team that went 19-5 in Feb. and March while beating the Spurs, Pistons, Celtics, Suns and Nuggets. In fact, Williams, Igoudala and Dalembert all had sub par games. If you think Detroit will reel off 4 in a row, you are underestimating the Sixers. I would not put my money on a series win, but I would put my money on at least 6 games.
I don’t think Rasheed’s goofing off actually made him miss that shot, I just think it looks bad in hindsight. (Maybe, just maybe, because in the back of my head I can’t picture the last time Sheed was part of a last-second huddle receiving instruction from an assistant coach, although that’s probably not a fair link to make.) But yeah, anyone who rails on that instead of other mistakes that had obvious, tangible effects is missing the point.
here’s the line i continue to buy: arrogance. this team has loved the smell of its own shit for the past 3 years. and somebody needs to finally, FINALLY snap their asses out of it. it’s not going to be flip saunders. he can’t do it. doesn’t know how. and for some reason joe won’t step in and do it for flip. which is too bad because he really should, as he’s the guy who said this complacency b.s. will not stand. you wait until after a game 2 loss at home and it’s too late. this team continues to live in a dreamworld where their B+ games will suffice. nope. no sir. you’re not that good. you’re not james, lebron. nope, not garnett, kevin either. and no, you’re not howard, dwight. and those guys ain’t showing up anytime soon. hopefully, they’re hearing the message now. unfortunately, it shouldn’t have to come from a sub-.500 team.
it would be fun to be a philly fan right now. i remember what it was like to root for a tough hard working team. hope that pistons team shows up on wednesday.
i think another ultimate problem with playing philly is that the pistons don’t HATE the sixers. i think that’s why you see sheed in the huddle at the end. i don’t see how you hate that team. they’re mostly kids. reggie evans is annoying, but he’s a quintessential “guy you’d love to have on yr team.” and as far as class, who in the f-ing world is cooler or classier than mo cheeks? obviously joe d. has the upper hand because he has an award named after him, but otherwise it’d be neck’n'neck. iguodala shows some jersey-popping tendencies, but is mostly pretty chill. and andre miller looks AND sounds like richard pryor, which is hilarious.
they’ll learn to hate ‘em pretty quick though if this thing goes to 6 or 7 games.
Normally I would blame Flip for roatation problems ( I certainly did last year in the Playoffs) but this was down to the boys. I mean when our 4 best and most playoff experience players are on the floor as the lead evaporates and they come undone in the 4th, then thats not a rotation issue.
I’ve always liked Jeff Van Gundy as a coach, but I think I might even like him more as a commentator guy. But I wouldn’t complain if he replaced Flip….. I’m just sayin’.
OT: Wizards in 6, wooo!!!! Those in the media, who get PAID to share your predictions, did you suddenly forget when you gave your prediction for the Cavs-Wizards series that the Cavs have LeBron James? Honestly, I’m not calling for a broom or anything, but LeBron is going to continue to hand Washington their ass, because he’s really just that good and the Wizards are just that mediocre with no answer for him on defense. This is the LeBron I want to see against KG and co. I’m excited for that one.
Matt, I think you’re wrong when you say that Developing a bench didn’t just save the wear and tear of the starters, it also enabled them to go balls out for 32-34 minutes a game instead of playing at three-quarter speed for 40. Maybe because their raw stats don’t show it people don’t realize it, but the starters were more effective in each game this year because they played fewer minutes. Asking them to play more minutes now just because it’s the postseason is counterintuitive.
Yes, our 4 main starters are more effective, but I’d say it’s because they’re fresher. Obviously we should want our most effective players out on the court in the playoffs, when it’s win or go home. And I really don’t think asking those 4 to play 35 to 40 minutes is too much, nor do I see any basis for believing that their productivity/efficiency will suddenly drop off if asked to play 40 instead of 34 minutes a game for the next month and half.
it’s like flip suddenly started reading sauce’s manifestos, and decided to prove the rest of us right.
they should have gotten their chance. if they’d gotten it and failed, we’d know what to do now. as it is now we don’t know if we should give those minutes back or chastise the starters for arrogance, complacency, ineffectiveness etc. etc.
it’s not easy to attack without hesitation when you’re always a second away from getting yanked, and it’s hard to prove yourself when you don’t get on the court. stuckey flourished in a situation where he was allowed to make some bad decisions because his good, on the whole outweighed them in the extended minutes we gave him. he was given trust. now he has flip’s hands around his neck, ready to clamp down if he doesn’t appear “playoff ready” in the first ten minutes of the first big game in his life.
whether it’s theo or amir, we can’t ride max for 30 a night. not the way he plays. especially not against a running team like this. personally i think they’re perfectly suited to amir’s style, but the suace rule gives him three fouls before he steps on the court, so i can see where arguments can be made for theo.
uhm, doesn’t lindsey get called for handcheck fouls a lot? in the open court? why are we ok with that? i’m not. i forgive amir’s fouls because he’s stopping layups and dunks most the time. i’m not the biggest afflalo fan, but i think he could do a better job.
rip has got to get his head out of his ass, pronto. i can forgive tay and dyess for missing shots, because they take smart shots most of the time. but rip is pulling his “hey everybody, look at me create off the dribble!” crap and it’s unforgivable. catch, jump, shoot. catch, jump, shoot. do that and you shoot 50%+, do what you did last night, and you don’t.
so give the kids the shot they earned, tell rip to smarten up, and hope the ebb and flow of suck leaves chauncey and tay.
we also need to keep sheed fresher for the end of games. if only there was a way…
Honestly, joejoejoe said it best with his comment near the top:
“The question you have to ask yourself is how much better is Tay’s 40th minute than a fresh Hayes, Rip’s 40th minute than a fresh Afflalo, Chauncey’s 40th minute than a fresh Stuckey.”
Guys get tired over the course of a game, there’s no way around it. Give a guy a couple of minutes to rest in the third and he’s that much stronger in the fourth. Would Tay or Sheed hit their last shots if they hadn’t played 40 minutes, something they’re not really conditioned to do any more? We’ll never know, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
Also, from Joe Dumars’ end-of-season press conference last June:
“You can change a sense of urgency,” he said. “If you’ve been playing 38 minutes a game here and you’re saying, ‘I can’t sustain that the whole season and through the playoffs,’ then don’t complain when we cut you to 30 minutes. You cut the minutes back and you say, ‘OK, I want the intensity. We’re not going to keep you out there for 40 minutes a night.’
“You just change the minutes around. If we went forward and say we’re gong to keep playing our core guys 40 minutes a night, you can’t do that. That doesn’t work. I can tell you firsthand you can’t put those guys out there 40 minutes every night and then grind through the playoffs. What you do is say we’re not going to ask you to do that. Don’t complain, though, when you play 30 minutes a night. I don’t want to hear it. This is the way it’s going to be. That’s how you address that.”
saying “those are our five best players, we should play them as much as possible” is the coaching of a kid playing a video game. the reality is far more complex. it’s a chaos theory of matchups and style changes and chemistry and player’s individual peaks. larry brown knew that, that’s why his bench averaged 26 a game. joe d knew that, that’s why he gave us a bench that averages 27. i never believed that flip understood that. i still don’t.
Damn, I miss Larry Brown.
You know, I have absolutely no problem with the starters’ minutes being increased in the playoffs–the majority of the time, I want those guys on the court, so I can’t blame Flip for wanting the same thing. What I do have a huge problem with, though, is playing the starters the entire third quarter and then expecting them to play the majority of the fourth if it’s a close game.
To tire the starters by playing them the entire third, to rush the bench out in the beginning of the fourth to give the starters a few necessary minutes of rest, and then to expect the starters to have fresh legs to close out the game is, in my opinion, nuts.
Flip has always had a tendency to do this, it infuriates me every time, and it is rarely, if ever, successful. Some of our worst losses these last three years have come as a result of that strategy. He avoided it for the most part this year, but to see him employ it in the first game of the playoffs is just plain frightening.
This post is on point. Without two of our best defensive players, we are going nowhere. Flip needs to get his head out of his ass, stop playing the starters 40 min, play AA/Amir. Stick to the rotation that almost won 60 games!.
I second the missing LB. I miss a coach that values defense, doesn’t choke, and can actually make proper subs.
Your playing a young athletic team and getting killed by penetration so don’t play your only guard that can stop it, and your young athletic PF. Brilliant strategy.
Joe D has to see this. He’s not stupid.
I don’t but that not trying BS. They got beat, plain and simple. Mo Cheeks had a great game-plan, made great djustments and Flip choked like he usually does and reverted back to overplaying the starters and relying on our 50 year olds. That lead would not have evaportated had he actually put in defense, young legs, and ENERGY.
Trader Jac, i 100% agree with this. It’s not going to change though. Game 2 will be a carbon copy of game 1 in terms of rotations/subs.
Complacency isn´t meant to be the only explanation for the defeat, but rather a serious underlying reason behind the many problems that cost the Pistons the game, just to be clear. Another underlying reason behind Detroit´s problems these past few years has been Flip Saunders´s rotation pattern. I don´t see how anyone can deny that.
In this game, for instance, Rip repeatedly clanked shot after shot, and never switched strategies. He just kept doing the same thing over and over (another coaching failure), and after the umpteenth time, still failed to recognize that IT. WASN´T. WORKING. So if a player keeps doing something that hurts your team, you yank him out of the game and try something (someone) else, right? Perfect opportunity to switch lineups, to put Stuckey out there with Billups, or Hunter depending on how the game is going, right?
Not with Flip coaching. For those who say that since Rip (and the entire starting five, for that matter) is the best and most experienced SG, it´s only natural that he stays in the game, how can this even matter when on the court, at THAT moment, in THOSE circumstances, he isn´t making the team better?
Afflalo should have had a chance to go out there, and incline the balance either on the Pistons´s side or on Philly´s side. Same goes with Amir. Why? Because Detroit´s squad, which is vastly better than Philly, wasn´t getting the job done. A badly struggling Detroit has a varied arsenal of weapons at its disposition, and we should expect not to deploy some of them when the need clearly arises?
Flip doesn´t put the right lineup at the right time, period. And in this case, it´s not that he tried out all of his players and failed to figure out who should have played with whom, he simply didn´t even try some possible solutions.
I miss a coach like Larry Brown, one that cares about his image more than the team … oh wait, no I don’t. Pining for Larry Brown is like calling yourself a Pistons fan but saying you rooted for Jordan when he was on the Bulls. You can’t have it both ways. Larry Brown is superb in short spurts (and was so for us), but he wears on his players FAST (for a C-rate results version of this see: Scott Skiles). And oh yeah, he cares about himself more than anything. Brown is nothing more than a pathetic egomaniac who betrayed this franchise with an act of immeasurable self-absorption and disregard for the team. Pistons fans, like Larry, should move on and cherish the championship he helped us win. His era is history; don’t long for a return to Ego Island.
And seriously, any of you blaming Flip for not going to Amir and Afflalo, that’s at least one reason as to why you’re not an NBA coach. No NBA coach with an interest in keeping his (or someday her?) job would go to the 11th and 12th man at any time during Game 1 no matter how deep their bench may be. Likely, they wouldn’t and shouldn’t go to an 11th or 12th man at all, barring Human Victory Cigar time (ie: Cleveland on Washington tonight).
Hell, we were the only team in our Game 1 over the weekend to go 5+ minutes w/at least 10 players. The Spurs and Suns even played 2 overtimes (with 2 and 1 foul-outs, respectively) and didn’t do it! Some of you really think we should go 11, 12 deep?
Any calls I’ve heard for Hunter or Ratliff to be sat (I think they shouldn’t be) have been refuted by most. In fact, I’d like to see Theo more, not Amir. So basically, anyone clamoring for Amir and/or Afflalo wants us yanking Lindsey, (Jarvis, Stuckey?) and/or Theo, or they want us going 11 or 12 deep. Amir and Afflalo are probably better than most if not all 11th and 12th men, but they’re that far down our totem pole for a reason. All this clamoring for those two just sounds like dejected whining to me, from people looking for a sense of security from this team, one that won’t reveal itself until Wednesday, likely later than that.
The only serious adjustment we need to make on Wednesday is to win. And rest assured, we will do that.
Since when are AA and Amir 11th, and 12th men? AA has been the 1st/2nd guard off the bench ALL YEAR, and Amir has at times played ahead of Max.
I would gladly yank Hunter/Hayes, and Theo’s plays limited min regardless.
People thinking that increasing the minutes of our old guys is going to counter Philly’ athlethicism or win this series, are in for a rude awakening.
I was under the mistaken impression we were trying to get young fresh legs in the PO’s ala Daniel Gibson or maybe i misheard what Joe D was saying.
Labeling a player the 10th, 11th, or 12th men and then holding it against him is just plain silly. Amir can be just as useful (if not more) than Maxiell or Theo in certain situations (my eyes tell me so, and so do the stats).
He’s wearing a uniform and he’s better than most of the bigs on the other team — why does anything else matter?
Also, I don’t entirely understand why Lindsey gets a pass. He appeared in seven games since December and rarely practiced with the team. He’s not a secret weapon, he’s a crutch.
Angela, have you heard of Rodney Stuckey? I’m pretty sure he came off the bench before Afflalo during the regular season. Based on average mins./game this season of the Pistons as presently constituted, Afflalo (who, keep in mind, averaged 7 points over 21:19 minutes/game in the 9 games he started at shooting guard) and Amir are 10th and 11th respectively (not to mention Flip Murray was ahead of them when he was here). I’m just not going to give this plan a ringing endorsement.
Matt, Lindsey’s got 2 rings. He’s the only member of the Pistons team outside of the core 4 who was here when we won in ‘04. If he’s dead weight, why is he still here? Hell, he’s going to the office next year, his job is secure, why not buy him out and send him upstairs this year if he’s just taking a roster spot? It’s not like we haven’t waived people (Flip, Dupree) this year to keep a roster space for Lindsey. The guy is a stalwart defender and he’s a solid veteran presence out there with enough left in the tank for one last dance.
Matt, I’m just following traditional playoff roster management. Amir (in my view) is NOT better than any of the bigs ahead of him on our roster. Going to 82games.com is not going to change that for me.
At this point (until McDyess is proven to be completely useless) those 4 ahead of him (McDyess, Sheed, Max, and Ratliff) are who matter to me, not whether Amir is better than some (or all) of Philly’s bigs.. Afflalo and Amir are apparently 11th and 12th in terms of priority, and I’m glad. Call me a strategical conservative, I won’t argue that I’m anything else. I just don’t believe in going 11 and 12 deep through the bench.
Against a young athletic team that likes to run (like Philly is and does), your transition defense has to be there. For that, you need guards and bigs that can run the floor and catch up in time to stop someone from scoring. How many times did I have to watch a Sixer go straight to the rim and make a layup while our so-called defensive big man (Ratliff) comes lumbering along way behind the play? The same goes for our starting bigs. Same goes for out starting guards and Lindsey. Against a team like the Sixers, you go with the guy who’s faster and can actually get back in time to stop someone, not just watch a play unfold - that’s Amir. Is he foul prone? Sure, but he fouls to keep people from scoring easy. Which would you rather have, a big that doesn’t foul but gives up easy buckets or someone who will foul and force one of theb worst FT shooting teams in the NBA to go shoot FTs?
How many times did Lindsey commit a dumb foul, turn the ball over and take a dumb shot? Sure, one can argue that Afflalo can’t score, but neither can Lindsey. AA will get call for fouls, but so does Lindsey. I don’t understand how Flip can just alter the rotation that’s worked for him the whole year just because it’s the playoffs. There was a lot of talk about how much the young guys can help us in the postseason, and it turns out it was all just hot air, because Flipper will rather go with the “safe” choice of old, slow players that can barely even keep up with the Sixers’ young legs let alone compete with them than play the guys who can keep up and can compete.
Like Matt said, what’s the difference between 20 year old Thad Young and Lou Williams’ playoff experience to those of Amir Johnson and Arron Afflalo? The answer = nothing. None of them have any, and if Flip opts to go with the same old, same old, we’ll never know. Personally, I think those 2 kids at least deserve to show they can make a difference. Thad Young and Lou Williams did.
i can’t believe after the season we had this is even an issue. it’s like the utah game all over again. we deviated from the game plan that had been successful all season and we lost. now people are actually arguing that we did the smart thing. you all can feel good about your “conservative rotation” and losing, but i’d rather win with *evil chord* our 11th man occasionally playing.
some people never learn. we expect chauncey, tay and sheed to be fresh at the end, but we don’t want to play the bench. we slam the starters for not playing with passion, or playing stupid, then we refuse to play the bench because they’re not perfect like the starters. that’s just stupid no matter how you look at it.
C’mon guys… remember that game we lost in 2004 to the Bucks? That’s the exact SAME as losing Game 1 to the 6ers… a lot of the players from that game are gone, as well as the coaches and assistants… but you know, Joe D. is still the President so it’s all comparable
In the last game I can understand not playing Amir in the second half (I know he didn’t play in the first half either) because what was needed the most was offense. Amir does so much on the floor but he’s not gonna be that Reggie Evans/Kimbo Slice kind of scorer that we needed. All jokes aside, Amir and Theo have shown that they are limited on the offensive end to put-backs and short hooks. I really think that Jarvis deserved more time just to see if his jumper was hot or not. I personally thought the combination of guys, especially at the start of the 4th, was much more of a problem then not playing Amir and Aflalo.
Matt, I’m surprised at your comments about Lindsey. He was very effective in the 2Q, where the bulk of his minutes were. Max got a lot of minutes and was much more effective than Dice. I felt that Jarvis should have gotten more burn, as well as Theo. Theo made the most of his time.
Philly really didn’t play all that great, they had a number of opportunities to ice the game late and kept letting Detroit get chances to tie it up. Philly’s also essentially playing a 7 man rotation, it will be interesting to see if they can keep doing that as the series rolls on. Still, what I’m seeing is the reason for the loss is poor preparation by the coaching staff, as well as a couple of weird substitutions (I think we all agree that subbing Tay out in the 4Q made no sense whatsoever).
John Hammond in his first hire as Bucks GM hired Scott Skiles as the new coach, where everyone thought it was going to be Rick Carlisle. what’s that all about? Could Carlisle be coming back here (in other words, did he patch it up with Tom Wilson?)?
I understand the calling for Flip’s head, but I think a lot should depend on Wednesday’s game for him. He needs to be able to exploit Philly’s weaknesses, of which there are quite a few. I think Flip on the hot seat is premature at this point, but if we don’t preform well tomorrow, it will certainly be justified.
I am totally with Matt on getting Amir out there though. He would have matched up very well against Evans.
Shinons…..speaking of weaknesses how about a lack of heart from the Pistons? Chauncey is your team’s money man aka Mr. Big Shot and from where I’m standing, he’s lost it. It’s the NBA, all these guys can play, but its the guys that want it more who will prevail. You gotta go the extra mile, rip you opponents heart out, fight tooth and nail…etc. Billups lost it as has Hamilton and Prince. They tasted success in ‘04 with Larry Brown and just don’t want it bad enough anymore. Maybe Sheed still does and perhaps your next generation players, but facemask, Princess and Little shot just aren’t at that level of intensity anymore. You need to face facts sometimes and stop grasping at straw like Amir Johnson…gimme a break.
Yes, the Pistons won 59 games, 2nd best record in NBA, 5 straight seasons going to atleast Eastern Confernce finals, but that’s all yesterday’s news. Who’s had a better record since Feb. 5th Sixers or Pistons? Go look it up. (Actually the Pistons by 2 game cause the Sixers lost 4 straight going into the playoffs…but you get my point) Who have the Sixers beaten during the stretch (more like who haven’t they beaten)…go look that up too. You need to come down off the perch and look across the court and see what a real hungry team looks like who can rebound, fast break, lock it down on defense and who has a coach with a clue.
Good Luck Wednesday, you’ll need it cause that Pistons team will be very tight and the Sixers will be very very loose and just a tiny bit more confident than Sunday……
Real funny, Boney. This is one loss in a seven game series. Why does everyone care so much? The Bucks example was not to show that we’re in the same boat (it was a game 2), but that a close loss at home early on isn’t necessarily a barometer of the series. Why can’t everyone chill out until we’re actually in trouble? This is why they play the games.
Calling for Amir Johnson strikes me as an overreaction, but I can at least respect it since he essentially brings a different dimension in his game than the 4 bigs in front of him. Calling for Aaron Afflalo is just reactionary, because he brings nothing different than Lindsey (who as V mentioned, did the job in Game 1) except greater size (clearly not needed, as evidenced by the fact 76ers were defended nicely in the 2nd quarter).
If Stuckey is able to aggressively take it to the rack (and score) for the rest of the series (what he does when he plays well), the combo of Lindsey and Stuckey will be extremely beneficial. Stuckey averaged 6.7 shots/game in an average of 19 mins./game in the regular season. He took one shot in Game 1 in 13 minutes. That’s not Rodney Stuckey’s game and that’s not going to cut it if he’s going to help us win.
I highly doubt four starters all have another bad game on the same night. Pistons should still win in 5 and maybe Philly stretches it to 6. This game was truly not a big deal (although mildly embarrassing).
David: Riiiiiiiiiight. Double digit win for the Pistons tomorrow.
My prediction: Pistons shoot over 50% from the field, Philly shoots under 40%, Pistons win big. If it were still a 5 game series I might (but probably not) be a little nervous. If we were playing a Western Conference 7 seed (not to mention, a team with a record over .500), I’d be nervous. But no to both counts.
Boney, the point of the Milwaukee discussion is that the game happened in the championship season and it was just as silly of a loss. I’m not saying these Pistons win the title, but it illustrates that eggs can be laid early in the first round even by championship teams, not just Pistons squads primed for a flame out. I can’t believe people so many people are up in arms, I really can’t. Those of you worrying sound like mirror images of David, except filled with blind pessimism as opposed to blind optimism. I hope everyone takes a deep breath and forgets about Game 1 after the first time Rip knocks down a jumper off of a curl screen in Game 2.
WOW….I really hope the Pistons come out on Wednesday with the same false sense of security that LB has. It is not 2004, and you are not playing the Bucks….after Wednesday you’ll understand. The same double digit prediction for Game 2 was made for Game 1, I’m sure you were partying it up at the half on Sunday or when it was 62-47 in the 3rd qtr. The Sixers best scorer, Iguodala, had a horrible game and yet the Sixers scored 90 pts on such “great” defensive team. I’m not saying the Sixers will win this game, nor am I saying they will win the series, but the overconfidence and arrogance of the Pistons and their fans is funny and ultimately will cost them this series if their not careful.
As for your doubts on all 4 starters not having bad games on the same night, well as I see it, McDyess is a stiff anyway, so you can’t count on him for anything anyway. Billups didn’t have a bad game per se (yeah the missed fT’s and layup), but fact is he was locked down. Princess is what he is, unagressive and nonexistent most of the time. I think he had his usual game, just missed that open jumper in the final minute. Facemask has been bothered with that bad hip, could still be a factor.
What you’re really missing is playing against a team that will double and scramble and leave your 3 shooters open. Philly will not do it, sorry. Sheed can have his and that won’t be enough.
I couldn’t agree with the article more. It seems that Flip is up to his old ways of terrible substitutions. It must be playoff season. Not only did it not make sense to not play Amir, why did Lindsay Hunter turn into our 7th man. If he wants to be a coach, let him coach, but I don’t want to see him on the floor for that many minutes. He is supposed to be a defensive specialist, but on Sunday I saw someone who went for steals time after time, and got burnt every time. I really don’t even think he should be on the playoff roster. Afflalo had a underrated rookie year, and I would much rather see him in than Lindsay, especially against Philly. I can’t believe 1 game sucked the wind out of me, but if we continue down this road, we’ll lose next round.
I mostly agree with LawyerBoy, who makes interesting comparisons to other teams’ rotations. Here are two more thoughts.
First, it’s not like Detroit HAD a consistent rotation in the past month, aside from Maxiell being the first big off the bench and Stuckey being the first guard. Amir got some minutes, but so did Ratliff after he came, and in the playoffs, FIVE bigs aren’t going to get significant minutes in every game. In game 1 vs. Philly, Flip went with Maxiell for big minutes because he was playing well and Dyess wasn’t; he even put in Ratliff to give Maxiell a blow, and he had Maxiell on the floor down the stretch.
Similarly, we never had a regular rotation with guards, beyond Stuckey. Afflalo got some minutes, but so did Dixon, and we always knew Lindsey would play in the playoffs. Again, FIVE guards aren’t going to get significant minutes in every game.
In this game, Flip pulled regulars who weren’t doing well (Dyess and Hayes) and played other guys. Maybe Hayes should have played more in the second half, but if he had and gone 0-1 in the second half as well, we would be complaining about that.
Second, when Flip put in the four starters plus Maxiell at the end, Detroit STILL HAD A LEAD (albeit a small one). It was the starters plus the bench player who had been playing the best (Maxiell) who lost the lead. That’s not on Flip.
David:the overconfidence and arrogance of the Pistons and their fans is funny and ultimately will cost them this series if their not careful.
I’ve never heard of fans’ overconfidence (and arrogance, man 5 ecf’s and counting!) losing a series for a team. If that’s the case, I’m no longer confident. I’m afraid. Of losing the series for the Stone because of my cavalier attitude. Thanks for the heads up, david
Craig—-maybe the fans part of that statement is a bit over-the-top, but go ask Ronald “Flip’ Murray to pass the nachos next time……
This might be the best thing that could have happened to the Pistons. Despite what every one wants to think, the Pistons do get complacent at times. This might be just the wake up call that they needed to slam the door shut on the Sixers.
David, seriously buddy, you’re acting like such a homer it’s absurd. Philadelphia’s eighth man is JASON SMITH. Jason Smith wouldn’t even make our fifteen man roster if given the opportunity. That’s not hyperbole. That’s just how talented and deep the Pistons are (and how much he sucks). You have the temerity to call the almost double-double averaging Antonio McDyess a stiff when you trot out Jason Smith as your eighth man? Wow, give me a break.
Does it sound like most of these fans here are arrogant? Everyone here is freaking out. Me personally, I believe in innocent until proven guilty, as in the Pistons decisively earned the two seed and the Sixers earned the seven seed for a reason. These are the facts until contrary facts appear and prove otherwise beyond a reasonable doubt. I still have plenty of reasonable doubts right now if someone tells me “The Pistons are cooked”. The Pistons haven’t shown me anything in one game that they can’t/won’t play, for the majority of the series, to what their seed suggests. And the Sixers certainly haven’t shown me that they’ll, for the majortiy of a series, play greatly above what their seed suggests. Pistons in 5 or 6 is still my outlook.
Even if the Pistons are too arrogant, complacent, I’m still punching their ticket for the ECF until they actually lose four out of seven games in a series. I’m not going to pass judgment after one loss that sends reactionaries into a tizzy. The Pistons have probably been complacent and arrogant since ‘05-’06, and they haven’t missed an ECF in five years, even the times when they had a worse roster than they do now. I’m willing to bet they make it six straight this season (amen, Craig). Philly is a player (maybe) or two (probably) short from taking the big step up. Call me arrogant, call me supportive of my team, call me “lawyerhoe” or “lawyerschmuck”. This is how I roll, and if you don’t like it, blame Rick Mahorn.
You’re right re: it’s not 2004 and we’re not playing the Bucks. We’re playing the short on talent, but long on heart, 2007-2008 Sixers. Milwaukee had more star quality players (Redd, Van Horn still physically in his prime, Desmond Mason, a young Tim Thomas, etc.) and a deeper bench (even w/T.J. Ford out). The Sixers have their starters, Louis Williams (who I like a whole lot, but still needs a lot of seasoning) and apparently the renaissance of Reggie Evans. Advantage: Bucks
Nine boards and eight assists for the other AI, yep, horrible game. He wasn’t shooting well so he did other things well and his teammates made it count. Sounds like a bad game to me. He struggled from the field, I’ll concede, but he shot as badly as about FOUR of the Pistons starters did. If you expect him to bounce back and shoot better, expect us to bounce back too and hang at least 100 on you.
And it’s a shame that you have start yapping, because I really like Mo Cheeks (and Andre Miller and Louis Williams).
David, you only know this team is cocky because we’re all bitching about it. Sure, what the Philadelphia 76ers have done the last half of the season was great. See? I’m a Piston fan and I offered you a compliment.
Remember that Houston also won what, 22 in a row?
I looked at the final whatever games you wanted me to look at, and the first thing that came to my mind was that you were wrong about who has had the better record recently. You admitted it, so I’ll let it slide on that one. I’ll also let slide the fact that the first loss came down to a missed shot from Billups, just like the last game came down to a missed shot from Sheed. I won’t let it slide though that the last loss to the 6ers, in the regular season, carried any significance other than the fact that the bench was playing and the starters started resting for the playoff push.
There is no doubt in my mind that the 6ers are a good, upcoming team. You can’t tell their hunger based off of watching them on television, you can only tell the talent they have. Words, rhetoric, jargon, etc can all be spewed to the media and laid out in any context necessary to pass along the news to us peons.
There is also no doubt in my mind that out of a roster of 15, a team like Detroit has use for 3 of the 6ers guys… meaning, Detroit is clearly the most talented team in the series, therefore it is logical to bet the house on Detroit to win the series. Talent wins out in the playoffs. Players come to play, in the playoffs. Iggy shot horribly in Game 1, for a reason. Reggie Evans played well in Game 1, for a reason.
It happens every series, there is one guy that stands up outside of the “usual suspects” against Detroit, which is where my gripe with Flip and his adjustments come in. In 2004 it was Jeff Foster, and then it was Luke Walton. Both had HUGE single game contributions, the rest of the series adjustments were made to silence their output. This team does not do that anymore, because they stick with what got them to the title in 04, veteran presence.
Detroit will win this series, but it will likely go 6, but I would not be surprised if it went 5. They will pound the paint with Sheed and Max next game, because that exposes a weakness. They will draw down to Sheed, and then pop out to Rip for a tramp ball or 2.
Detroit will win, oh yeah, they will win.
LB…nice response. But starting off with Jason Smith is pathetic. First off, its the playoffs, you shorten your bench, so beyond your top 6-7 players its almost irrelevant. There are no B2B situations and in this case between Games 1 and 2 there are 2 whole off days. Smith played great the first half of the season and faded out from there as have his minutes….you know the drill with rookies. So if you want to say you have a better 8th man (really 9th now) than the Sixers, I’ll give you that.
As for me being a “homer”, well honestly, I picked the Pistons to sweep the Sixers. I am already wrong. The last two weeks of the season were very disappointing for me as a Sixers fan. They lost that edge that they had through out February, March and early April when they beat the Suns, Mavs, Celtics, Magic, Spurs, Nuggets and your Pistons (twice). I figured they had their run (much like the Rockets) and it would be hard to get that energy and fire back. I watch the NBA very closely and I have the utmost respect for the Pistons and what they have accomplished over the course of the last 5+ years. I grew to hate Prince back in ‘03 after he became unstopabble in a playoff series vs the Sixers and Billups has always been big time. So don’t think I’m just some jackass coming on here hating on the Pistons and talking smack.
After watching game 1, a lot changed for me. True, it was just one game in a series where you need to win 4, but I came to realize that these two teams are not as far apart as I had thought. Without the rotating and scrambling off doubles on Rasheed this team can lose focus on offense. And Defensively, they have a hard time guarding Andre Miller, who as you know makes the Sixers go. The Sixers also played a very flawed game from perspective and yet they still won. So yes, the Pistons had some bad performances, but the Sixers didn’t max out either.
As for McDyess, he will not be a factor in this series, I promise you that. He’s an 8-8 man, well someone needs to rebound on your team, considering Sheed avergaes just 6. Saunders already panicked in game 1 and limited his minutes. Maxiell playing well was a facor, but how many defensive rounds did McDyess have in game 1?
Iguodala had a nice rebounding and assist game (which is usually the case), but he needs to be scoring 25-30 pts like he has been in the 2nd half of the season for the Sixers to be competitve. He didn’t do that in game 1, that was point. The Reggis Evans offense countered that, but that’s not going to happen again unless the Pistons keep letting the Sixers push them around.
I’m well aware of the Sixers short comings and trust me, I KNOW they are a player or two away from taking big step, yet what I’m saying is that it doesn’t matter. They are equipped to make a run at the Pistons in this series. And I’m not basing that on the Sixers strengths, mostly on the Pistons short comings.
Boney….appreciate the respect, here’s where we disagree on philosophy. The team with the most talent does not always win out. There are many cases in point over time (hell look at the Mavs the last 5 years or so)…but also think back to the Mavs in the mid 90’s when they Jason Kidd, Jamal Mashburn and Jim Jackson, what did that team ever do? But look no further than to your Pistons in 2003 when they went to the ECF….Hamilton, Cliff Robinson, Corlis, Memet, Atkins, Big Ben, Prince….that was not a scary team talent wise that year, yet look how well they did. Pistons fans of all people should realize this. This has been a team without stars for years. Prince, Billups, and Hamilton are all underrated. People outside of Detroit don’t consider them superstars, not even close. Talent helps, but heart, determination, desire and a team effort will get it done a lot easier, and thats what happened in game 1. And like I’ve been saying, if the Pistons don’t realize this soon, they will find themselves down 2-0 heading back to Philly….Jesus, still 29.5 hrs til tip….this sucks!
David:
I remember when the Sixers lost to that Detroit team in the 2nd round, and being befuddled as to how it happened.
Obviously the Sixers are 1 or 2 players away from true contender status (depending on how quickly and how well Thad Young develops), but that doesn’t mean they can’t cause the Pistons lots of problem. For Detroit fans calling for their bench, well, their bench had a chance at the Sixers and didn’t do much with it in March - a wire to wire win for the Sixers.
What is being underestimated perhaps more than any other one thing, is how well the Sixers play defense and how well they match up against the Pistons defensively.
Morty,
Well said…..agreed on all points
Im supposed to be writing a term paper so don’t hate me for not reading all of the posts this time… which btw are some of the longest ive seen on DBB. I have to say Matt Watson said it right. He stopped short of blaming flip for the awful pairings that happened. Stuckey looked tenative someone said… Do you think thats stuckey who loves to drive to the basket or flip? When stuckey is on the floor we need to turn the kid loose. Im sorry lindsey is too old and we have to many other talented players for him to play more than a couple mins. Personally I would rather not see lindsey, give that time to afflalo who can do many things that lindsey can’t anymore, like rebound or make layups. Our problem against teams like the sixers is that theyre younger and hustle more. When we start settling for jump shots, with our roster easy to do, and they arent falling were in trouble against guys who play active D and rebound. We should have sent amir out for at least six mins… especially because dice stunk it up. Our PF spot needs to be a 3 man rotation of dice, max, and amir. because none of the 3 is good enough (at this juncture) to be the full time guy.
David, in order for us to find ourselves down 2-0, one or more of our core four is going to have to come down with a sudden case of “I can’t even take the floor-itis”. If not, this series is going to be 1-1 when it goes back to Philly. Like Boney said, bet the house. Iguodala can go for 40 on 75% shooting from the field tomorrow night for all we care, it still won’t win the game. This is the stat you need to worry about:
Fifteen of fifty. The four starters (and we all know, 4>1) for the Pistons not named Rasheed shot fifteen of fifty from the field! I know Iguodala’s four of seventeen is worse straight up in terms of field goal percentage (26.7% v. 30%), but for four starters to combine to miss thirty-five of fifty shots and have their team only lose by four? It’s a bit of remarkable fortune and a bit that we’re just a superior team. I won’t bore you with the statistical evidence (but I’ve checked, and it’s there), but I wouldn’t count on Rip having two bad scoring nights in a row, it’s not really his style.
You continue to ignore the fact that Sixers have something to do with your performance. Lets look at the 4 games RIP has played against the Sixers this year. Nov. 23rd 4 of 16 for 11pts with 0 rebounds and 0 assists in 29 minutes. Jan 23rd 9 of 12 for 21 pts with 1 rebound and 2 assists in 37 minutes. March 12th 2 of 7 for 9 pts with 1 rebound and 4 assists in 32 minutes. He missed the final matchup of the year. Then on Sunday he was 5 for 17 for 13 pts with 5 rebounds and 4 assists in 39 minutes. All totaled this year vs the Sixers he is 20 for 52…39% and averaging 13.5 pts 1.75 rebs and 2.5 assists….compare that to his season avg of 17 pts on over 48% shooting with 3 assits and 4 boards……my point being, the Sixers match up well against him, so don’t bank on him coming right back and having a good shooting night. Not to mention in the season finale he shot 1-8….I gotta run but I’ll look into some other players later.
David,
Fair play on Rip (I’m not a total jerk). You provided the necessary statistics which solidify your argument, so I concede to you that Rip probably struggles against the Sixers (though it’s still rare for him to have back-to-back poor shooting games). However, to save you the time, Chauncey, McDyess and Tay both scored above their season average in points in 2 of the games in the regular season between Philadelphia and Detroit. I don’t expect them to be all held under again. I don’t expect to see all 4 of them, in this series, score under their average again on the same night. It’s highly improbable.
And Rasheed scored high above his average, so did Maxiel, the list goes on. No argument from me that Detroit obviously has more proven NBA talent, but your argument that Detroit played terrible, and Philadelphia played above their heads doesn’t wash.
Both teams had up and down games and the Sixers did just enough to win.
Morty, you have to understand something, Philadelphia is NOT a talented team. In fact, in terms of talent, they’re probably on par with (or even in some cases, behind) a lot of lottery teams. Your starting five is: Andre Miller (Good), Willie Green (Journeyman Equivalent), Andre Iguodala (Very Good), Thaddeus Young (Inconsistent, but Above Average), Samuel Dalembert (Average or Mildly Above Average). Louis Williams and (to an extent) Reggie Evans are the only players on your bench who are serviceable at the very least (I shouldn’t have to go into detail about Smith, Carney, Booth, Randolph and Ollie).
That’s not a talented squad. That’s a squad who has a coach that motivates them to bust their butts and a coach who is getting results. It’s nothing more. A piece or two later, and this squad could be something. As presently constituted, calling them “a seven seed” is kinda generous.
LB:
I’ve been assuming you have not been watching the Sixers all year. I guess I was wrong.
LB….in response to your last post, you need to keep in perspective that this a TEAM game. Sure, breakdown the Sixers players and you can list them out as average/good…etc and it doesn’t add up to much, but that’s not how a game is won or lost based on “individual” talent. It’s how you play as a unit what counts most. This team plays excellent team D (so does Detroit), they get out on the break a lot and create easy opportunities for themselves. They also are the best offensive rebounding team in the NBA, which counts for a lot in my mind. It can drive even the best of defensive teams mad when their giving up second and third opportunities.
You wanna talk talent, Detroit has the edge easily. You want to talk experience, Detroit by a mile, but if you want to talk matchups in this series and hunger and desire and coaching and good all around team energy, well then, we may just actually have something to talk about…..stay tuned!
Morty: I have NBA League Pass at home; I spend my down time on DBB. I’m almost as much of a fan of NBA basketball as I am of just the Pistons. That Louis Williams kid could be special once he gets older and puts it all together. However, your squad is thin, I mean I’ve mentioned it a thousand times, but Jason Smith as your eighth man? My goodness, he has no athleticism, mediocre strength, an extremely limited offensive game, and his feet don’t leave the floor. What a waste of a first round pick. Why even trade Daequan Cook away for that? Yeesh.
Kevin Ollie is about 82 and was never good. Shavlik Randolph shouldn’t be on any team’s active roster. Long story short, the squad needs to tie up some loose ends, but if Willie Green goes from their third best scoring option to their fifth being the first man off the bench, you’ve got yourself a squad.
The Sixers have the 8th-ranked defense in the league. Defense wins championships. The Sixers found a system that works for themselves, and the team finished the 2nd half of the season with a nice 60% win percentage.
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/standings/08/19
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2008.html
Morty, we don’t watch the Sixers all year, but you’ll find that a decent percentage of us follow the NBA pretty well, can tell you the names of actual players on the team, and in my case, can make an argument that Sixth Man award should not only be re-classified, but it should also feature some Sixers, maybe Louis Williams, as the winner or contestant among guys like Jason Maxiell. Yes, we noticed the Sixers. I, in particular, didn’t exactly clap my hands when Detroit missed Toronto. Looks like Detroit has another possible toughest road, yet again.
Anyway, we’ve seen teams like this, and your Sixers remind me of early 2k Pistons clubs, like this one, but with less 3-ball and more rebounding:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/2002.html
We know Philly isn’t the usual .500 club. We know they’re dangerous.
Sauce:
Thanks for the respect, and I respect what I’ve read here, good blog and comments.
You’re echoing my argument, contra LB, that Detroit has a battle on their hands. These 2 teams have played 5 times, the Sixers have won 3, although I’m happy to throw out the last regular season game even though it does not reflect well on your bench. Each game has had to been won in the 4th quarter, and each winning margin has been less than 10. LB acts like game 1 was some crazy aberration and game 2 will be a 10+ point blowout. I think I have the evidence on my side that he is mistaken. I will echo David’s last paragraph that this is a team game and match ups do matter, and while Detroit is the deserved favorite, a cakewalk is not going to break out.
Frankly, I think the match ups would be even closer if Igoudala played SG and Thad Young SF, as Green is a below average SG, especially starting.
Also, I agree without your assessment of the Sixers as resembling the Pistons of ‘02. I think management wants to emulate your philosophy as well, albeit with a most fast breaking style.
Detroit couldn’t fast-break it because we had guys like Cliffy, and the philosophy at the time was half-court Carlisle and Brown, insidin’ it out, grindin.’ The grindin’ part is what Philly absolutely does.
The fast-break you speak is transition. Both Detroit and Philly tend to punish off turnovers.
Philly is going to try and establish themselves in Detroit’s paint again, which is how they do it, since the perimeter shots are not their specialty in the slightest. Detroit is going to bring their better-rated defense with a focus upon keeping Philly relegated to jumpers from farther away . . . Philly’s defense is going to try and keep Detroit guessing with playing straight-up man D on some guys, while slippin’ in some zone. Detroit loves the jumper, and they get stagnant if their ball-movement is limited.
By philosophy, I meant more the way the team is built with an emphasis on defense, teamwork and a non “star” approach as opposed to actual style of play.
Morty: Good news, Pistons are favored on BoDog by 10 for tomorrow night. I guess I’m not the only one who thinks it’s going to be a double digit win for the Pistons. By this time tomorrow, we’ll know for sure.
I don’t honestly expect a win for the Sixers tonight. I would be satisfied with a close game in the 4th quarter, a down-to-the-wire finish that lets Detroit know this entire series will be a fight.