This already made it’s rounds in the comments, but for those who missed it, check out Ian Thomsen’s “5 Reasons Detroit can be champions” on SI.com. There’s a lot of good stuff there from Joe Dumars and Flip Saunders, including this nugget explaining how Saunders keeps the Pistons motivated:
“At the beginning of the year,” Detroit coach Flip Saunders said, “we had our first meeting, and I had each guy tell me what they could do to help us win a championship. I got all those things typed up and I keep them in my coat pocket for every game. I keep it there as a reminder, in case I ever have to pull it out to them: ‘Hey, this is what you told me you were going to do.’ ”
Each player declared what he could do to help the Pistons win their first title since 2003-04. They spoke in front of each other, and it became a personal contract among the players and their coach.
“I’ll read it before games to see the mentality of where our players were at the beginning of the year, to see where they’re at [now],” Saunders said. “Chauncey [Billups] talked about not turning down shots — because I get on him sometimes that he turns down shots — and knowing our game plan as far as following through on that game plan. And ‘Sheed [Wallace] talked about the winner that he is, that he’s not going to let his team down, that they can follow him.
“It was good that we sat in there and talked about it. You could see where they were coming from and what they thought. Jason Maxiell said, ‘I’m going to bring energy, I’m going to make free throws’ — and there’s a guy that improved his free-throw shooting dramatically [to 63.3 percent] from a year ago [48 percent]. It was a contract that they gave not to me but to their teammates. It was about accountability.”
And?
“They have lived up to it,” Saunders said. “At times, everyone’s going to veer away a little bit. But because of that [meeting], our players have been more vocal with each other, about guys not doing things, and letting them know this is what you have to do.”
Flip’s been getting his due in recent game threads on this site, but I get the feeling we’re still the exception among fans as a whole. It’s too bad, because Flip’s been doing a hell of a job lately — that Chauncey Billups reverse in the final seconds of Game 2 looks even more brilliant when you understand the x’s and o’s behind it (via TrueHoop).
Some people will never be convinced until he leads the Pistons to another title. That’s fine, it comes with the territory of being a contender year in and year out — but realize that only four different coaches have won a title in the last 12 years, and six in the last 21. High expectations are fine, just don’t let it keep you from seeing what kind of job he’s been doing in the meantime.
“Some people will never be convinced until he leads the Pistons to another title.”
It goes beyond that, Matt. Detroit could have won the title in 2006. We still smell the mismanagement from that season. It is like a skunk’s potency. I hold Flip responsible for his unfamiliarity and mistakes.
I couldn’t let Rasheed go for leaving Horry open in the 2005 Finals, either. Game 5, June 19th, 2005 . . . I forgave him, eventually, after later playoff heroics undid his costly mistake.
Flip, deliver us a championship by more solid clipboarding and guidance, and 2005-2007 will be forgiven.
the really great thing about the pistons is, when they lose, everybody (including themselves) knows why.
lack of intensity, ball movement, passion, settling for the jumper…
that´s why they are a great playoff team - they make adjustments, come back and crush their opponents with patented lockdown defense and perfect flowing five-man-offense.
as long as the pistons don´t lose, because they are the lesser team (and i don´t see this happening against boston) - they can win it all.
for the most part i’m with sauce. but i will not deny the incredible strides flip has made this year. if it weren’t for stupid little things like choking up on his rotation as soon as the playoffs started (which cost us game one against the 76′ers) there wouldn’t be much room for second-guessing. he’s actually looking at matchups and not just claiming to and playing the starters 40+. that alone may well get us to the finals, if not to another trophy.
just remember how well stuckey has done, and then remember that when the playoffs started, flip was ready to dump almost all of his minutes to hunter. really? already scared against the 76′ers? anyway, not my point. Flip has done a genuinely good job, and has FINALLY started to correct his own mistakes. i had faith we’d win when chauncey went down, i had faith we’d make adjustments and win game 2 against boston, and as frightening as it is, i had that faith because i’m starting to trust flip’s adjustments.
Erm, this is a bit unrelated, but I was wondering if someone can clear up something for me. Who’s that blond guy on the detroit bench? What is his role? Is he on the coaching staff? A player? I been following the pistons for about 3 years already, but unfortunately I can’t catch all the games due to my stupid local sports channel. Just saw him during the playoffs, so I am unfamiliar with him. Did check out the official website, but can’t find any info on him. Any info would be great, thanks.
This post was Flip’s Fault.
Next part:
In light of the skunkjob of 2006, we all hoped Flip would learn from his mistakes. Compared with today’s team, he had the crutch of veterans due in part to the team’s construction, but he also chose to go with those guys, ultimately. By the time Chris Webber had been completely neutralized, Flip was still trotting him out there. There was no recognition of his uselessness against better interior defense.
So, in 2007, Flip ultimately had not learned from 2006. Bad plays, too long waiting to take time-outs, ridiculous player combinations at times, and with regard to those substitutions, maybe sometimes the starters were too winded, and there was no other option, but more often, it seemed like those player combos were the result of bad tinkering, like Flip was playing the board game Operation with a shaky hand. BZZZtttBBbbbBBBBBZZzzZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZzZZZZZzzbbBBBBT.
In 2008, Detroit had the shaky start with Philly, but something changed midway through that series. I give more credit to the players than I do to Flip in that round against Philly, but Flip had a couple good games coaching during the Orlando series, I will give him that.
But I’m not going to forgive everything because Flip and the players banded together and turned in A-games to nail a road win on Boston. The series isn’t over, and Detroit hasn’t been to the Finals since he’s been here.
Again, deliver us a ring. Then, all is forgiven.
Before anyone says “WELL COME ON SAUCE THE FRIGGING OTHER OPTION BESIDES WEBBER WAS NAZR,” uh, he might not have been any worse than Chris out there in the last two rounds, seriously. The one thing Nazr did was offensive rebounds. Hmmm.
I agree that Flip had a lot to do with the last two playoffs losses, even if he wasn´t the only one responsible. But in the article, Joe D. points out something that is all too true. He came out of an environment where winning wasn´t part of the culture, and landed in a place where it´s Finals or bust. Mentally, he needed an adjustment period.
I know, I know, it needn´t have been that way. A greater coach could have prevented the underachievements of the last two postseasons. But realistically, which coaches in this league have shown this level of brilliance? Only Popovich and Phil Jackson, in my opinion.
So yes, us Detroit fans have reasons to mistrust Flip, but frankly, given what he´s done over the last two series, I think we are beginning to see that he can be the right coach for this team. That he is, in fact.
Yeah, I agree Dg - only Pop and Phil are on that level, currently.
Sauce, this Detroit squad is so good they can outplay either San Antonio or LA, that´s the bright side, and thus Flip would win the battle of the coaches. First, of course, let´s care of tonight´s game, and the next ones.
Off-topic, and I assume Matt and others have already read it, but for those of us who didn´t read Keith Langlois´s piece on Antonio McDyess when it first came out in the winter issue of the magazine for season-ticket holders, it was published today:
http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/mcdyess_080523.html.
A wonderful recount of McDyess´s story and perseverance. A must-read.
Sauce: Why can’t you believe the argument that the Pistons were rusty in Game 1? If you can buy into that, then Flip has done things absolutely right. If it’s the case, you don’t scream at them because their starting backcourt is made up of rhythm shooters who need to settle in and thus lay an egg in Game 1 (logic falls in line with Game 1 of the Boston series). After winning Game 2 against Philly, no need to lay into them for a bad Game 3 (and certainly not during halftime of that Game when you’re only down 4), because we all know there is a delicate balance with this squad and Flip needs to pick his spots (it’s a trust us for more than a half-we’ll trust you to not cause locker room static contract). Everyone knows that things turned around at halftime in Game 4 of the Philly series. My theory is that Flip waited until he had 3 consecutive losing halves of ball to make any point. Since then? Smooth sailing due in great part to Flip and no harm, no foul in my book.
What makes this Detroit franchise so great is that from the very top there are visionaries executing on a day-to-day basis yet constantly aware that there are long term goals as well. They implement the necessary pieces to execute their plan and when there are momentary letdowns they don’t fold like most franchises do by sacking their coach, GM or blowing up their roster, etc. I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out that plenty of people at different junctures have mused about “blowing up” the major pieces of the current roster at various times. It seems to me that Joe is proving those doubters wrong with his decision to keep the core together. Similarly, he hired and kept Flip for a reason, a reason that I don’t believe Sauce gives Saunders credit for because of his two years of “early” playoff exits. The Pistons organization allows for the decisions that need the most thought to be made over time. Many franchises (The Nets sacking Scott and then trading away Kidd only a few years later, The Mavs trading for Kidd, Denver trading for Iverson, Chicago giving Wallace $60 million/4 years) don’t follow that mantra. I firmly believe this is the type of vision that cultivates a minimization of the mistakes made. If you look at the Darko pick and realize that the organization entrusts Joe with the vote of confidence and the ability to operate at his full capacity in the absence of pressure, it probably made it a lot easier for Joe to subsequently turn Darko into Stuckey.
Maybe Joe knew that by hiring Flip he would need to give Flip proper time to integrate into Detroit’s culture of high expectations (that’s Joe’s take and I buy it 100%). We all know that Larry Brown certainly had to go at that point and it’s been pretty clear that Joe would much rather apply his nearly unparalleled brilliance as GM than coach. Maybe Larry Brown’s massive ego and abandonment of the Pistons is to blame, not Flip. It’s not like we were unhappy with Brown’s game results at that point.
One of the things I’ve always appreciated about Flip is his modesty and malleability vis-a-vis the Larry Browns of the NBA coaching circuit. I’m going to believe that Joe had the right vision, knew Brown had to go and knew what he was getting in Saunders, accepting that it may not work to absolute perfection immediately (though it came damn near close to a seamless transition despite us losing a lot of our beloved bench). The choice seems to have ensured the greater good over the long term (because Flip is clearly willing to listen to sage advice and ponder adjusting accordingly which not only serves us well now but will for a while, a lot longer than dealing with Brown would).
I don’t find it coincidental that the Pistons have seen many of their more recently-added key pieces (Maxiell, Stuckey, Flip Saunders) show tremendous growth while calling the Pistons organization their home. This ESPN News age discourages fans (and some foolish organizations) from depending on a more “scientific method” of evaluating a larger, lengthier sample size. The Pistons don’t seem to buy into that frenzied perception. I am truly appreciative of that. I don’t even care that we lost the last two because I understand that as a result of what we’ve done we’ll be competitive for years to come and further cement our status as one of the greatest NBA franchises of all-time, unquestionably in my mind the greatest franchise since the late 80s going forward. I wish any non-believers would buy into this theory.
I think when all is said and done, Flip has a great shot of challenging Daly’s record of nine seasons as Pistons coach, and I’m sure I’ll be quite happy about it if it comes to fruition (no offense to Saint Daly).
LB, there you go with your lack of brevity. Sorry, past the first sentence, you went off into oblivion, and I didn’t follow.
I hold Flip accountable for previous grievances. A championship makes up for them.
Or, I’m more than happy getting rid of him for anyone but the least of the coaches, Doc Rivers among them.
No. Negotiations. On. This. Final. Deal. With. Lawyer. Boy.
I don’t think Flip cost the Pistons two championships. There’s no way in hell they would’ve beaten San Antonio last year. And Miami was a better team and hungrier team(especially when you factor in Sheed’s foot injury).
Yes, looking back, 2007 was a wash.
2006 is on Flip, though, and we’ll disagree with that.
Sorry I don’t buy this Flip Saunders has been doing a job stuff.
1. Joe D. told Flip to play the young people during the year or take a hike. So it wasn’t like Flip ever wanted to do it.
2. The Pistons have accomplished nothing yet. Last fall almost all of the NBA pundits expected the Pistons to face the Celtics in the ECF.
3. The Celtics have looked old and slow on defense in the playoffs even before playing the Pistons
4. Atlanta and Cleveland both swept the Celtics at home during the playoffs, so that should be the minimum expected of the Pistons during the current series.
5. Yes we won one in Boston but that has as much to do with Joe D. insisting on the fact that Flip play Stuckey serious minutes during the year even when Stuckey was stinking it up.
6. It also has to do with the rest that our starters have gotten from Joe D. insisting that the young guys get serious minutes during the playoffs.
7. Anything less than beating this aging over rated Celtics team would be a disaster, due to bad coaching.
I will withhold praising Saunders until he can get a Pistons team past the ECF.
6. should read “during the regular season”
Mike: If you think Flip is worried about money or job security, you’re wrong. Any (non-existent) job threat means nothing to him just like it meant nothing to Brown. Flip and his 13 seasons as an NBA head coach (and his 587-402 regular season record) can go to another team with lower expectations for comparable money or he can do announcing. Point is, Flip really wants to win a ring as an NBA head coach.
Your picture of Joe paints him to be the President of Basketball Operations equivalent to George Steinbrenner. Joe gives suggestions not ultimatums because the Pistons believe in working together through cooperation. If Joe gave blustery ultimatums like that he wouldn’t still be with this organization. Clearly Joe didn’t give ultimatums about playing youngsters in the past so why now? I mean why did we never hear about Joe telling Rick Carlisle not to sit on Tayshaun for ‘02-’03 despite Joe being so high on him and Tayshaun subsequently proving his worth? Carlisle getting shown the door for Brown had nothing to do with the decision not to play Tayshaun. It was an obvious trade up opportunity.
Joe isn’t exactly shying away from his culpability in Pistons’ recent shortcomings. He’s publicly admitted that the cupboard in the past couple years was much more bare compared than the cupboard this season due to Joe’s own “failings”. All he did was talk this over with Flip and advise Flip to make use of our newer resources.
Your number six point belonging to the credit of Joe D. and not to Flip Saunders shows jut how little you understand the matter. It’s not like Joe tells Flip when to substitute. Besides, the Pistons head coaching spot for the last 5 seasons is one that most coaches would leave their current job to take. So, why would Joe (who you keep championing) go with Flip in the first place AND stick with him when we all know that Joe doesn’t have a slow trigger finger? The reason is because much like with Maxiell, Prince, Stuckey, etc. Joe seems to see things in basketball people that are missed by most others. And what Joe saw in Flip Saunders was a coach who could get the ultimate job done for this squad, and that’s exactly what he’s doing despite your rampant objections.
Sauce: Sorry dude. At least I’m not shy about admitting my lack of brevity. That counts for something toward humanity, doesn’t it?
I’ve been a Flip-hater in previous years, but, and I’ve said this many times here previously, that Joe D. has caused Flip to grow as a coach over the last year +. This much at least was confirmed in the Thomsen article by Joe D. himself.
That being said, so many people on this board (and I remember Bill Walton of all people saying it first) chant the mantra, “I trust Joe Dumars”. Dumars has shown his genius as a GM (again, IMHO the only guy i9n his class as a GM is R.C Buford of SA, and Buford has had the luxury of a superstar coach in Pop) time and time again (I mean, there ought to be a bylaw that forbids him trading with Michael Jordan, among other things) .
Finally, if we’re going to hate on Flip, we’ve gotta be fair and give him the props when he gets it right, and he’s been getting it right more often than not lately. He’s done a fine job of developing Stuckey and the rest of the bench, and he’s done well lately when the money’s on the table.
He should get through this series, but I think the Lakers are going to be too tough, and that’s considering Tay is a Kobe-stopper. We’ll see.