There’s no love lost between Celtics fans and Pistons fans, and it’s been that way for decades. That said, I’d buy the guys at CelticsBlog a beer any day. I made a cameo answering a few questions over there earlier today, and CelticBlog’s Steve Weinman returned the favor below.
Matt Watson: The Celtics steamrolled just about everybody in the regular season before being taken to the limit the first two rounds. What do you attribute the difference to? Have you seen signs of fatigue?
Steve Weinman: Like most issues in basketball, the Celtics’ obstacles have been caused by a confluence of factors, and I’m not entirely sure how to sort them all out. There is an enormous difference between playing teams three or four times over a course of six months and spending two weeks locked in a best-of-seven for survival with the same opponent. Whereas this is a Celtics team that was going to win a lot of regular season games simply by coming out and playing harder than the opposition every night, opponents have had more time in the playoffs to break down film and make adjustments to the Celtics — and, sad as it is to say, a lot of teams around the league were just starting to match the Celts season-long level of intensity when the playoffs were starting.
One of the team’s biggest problems – especially prior to Game 7 against Cleveland – was something we really subconsciously knew from day one: This is a jump-shooting team. As I wrote after Game 4 of that series, while not every team has a LeBron James, virtually every big deal playoff team has a go-to guy (or guys) who can get take the ball to the rack late in games for either easy buckets, fouls or kick-outs for great looks on the outside. Players like this can get themselves hot simply by getting to the rim and making things happen, whereas teams reliant on perimeter shooting are often going to be either hot or cold, and that’s the end of it. The remedy to being cold is waiting to get hot again, which doesn’t do much service at the end of games. Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett have made careers out of being perimeter and mid-range jump shooters respectively. Paul Pierce was the guy who had formerly led the league in free throws made and attempted and fourth-quarter scoring, but until late in that semifinal series, he too had fallen into the trap of settling for contested looks on the outside. When he started going to the rim at the end against Cleveland and early in the Detroit series, we saw a huge difference in the way this offense runs. That needs to continue in order for the Celtics to be successful.
Beyond that, it’s all just a combination of ‘little things.’ Ray Allen has gone through an incredibly prolonged slump. Sam Cassell hasn’t been the acquisition everyone hoped he would be. Rajon has had great games, and he has had games in which he looks just like the 22-year-old, second-year kid he is. Doc Rivers isn’t necessarily the Antichrist for everyone these days in Boston, but he has certainly made his share of mistakes as well.
I can’t for the life of me even begin to explain how the league’s best regular season road team became the playoffs’ most bipolar home-road unit.
MW: Rajon Rondo looks to me like he’s a jump shot away from the All-Star game. How high is his ceiling?
SW: There are no shortage of Celts fans who align with your view, Matt. Collectively, we spent the year falling more and more in love with this kid, and no one really knows where the ceiling is. He progressed in virtually every aspect of the game throughout the season. His quickness up and down the floor is amazing. He has great hands defensively, though he still needs some seasoning as far as footwork and picking his spots with when to gamble for steals. He rebounds extraordinarily well for a point guard and has shown the abilities both to score the basketball and to be a dynamic playmaker when the offense is put in his hands.
As far as making the jump to that All-Star level, these playoffs have shown us both flashes of brilliance and evidence that Raj still has some work to do in a few areas of his game. You (and the rest of the world) note that the jump shot still needs some work, and that’s no doubt the case, although to his credit, it has come a long way from where it was prior to the season. Rondo also seems to have lost some confidence over the course of the playoffs in his ability to really attack the rim hard, and since having several lay-ups and dunk attempts blocked early in the playoffs, he has become increasingly reliant on the teardrop/floater variety of shots. While some of the game’s best point guards have perfected that shot (and Rondo certainly can hit it), I’d be much more comfortable with seeing him really take the ball to the cup hard. He has the speed and athleticism to do it effectively, and it’s a stronger play. Aside from all that, he occasionally has some decision-making issues, but what 22-year-old (pro ball player or otherwise) doesn’t? Despite the flaws mentioned here, label me entrenched in the “love the kid” camp, and I’m looking forward to seeing Raj continue to progress in the seasons to come.
MW: Help Doc out: Eddie House or Sam Cassell?
SW: I’ve been a bigger SamIAm fan than most throughout the postseason, and I still believe that he is going to have that game or games where he plays an enormous role in giving this team a chance to steal a game somewhere – which is really a big part of what he was brought in for. He was integral in taking games 1 and 2 over Cleveland, and I’m not ready to entirely throw in the towel on this guy.
But with all that said, if it’s my call, I’m going with Eddie in Game 5. Since Game 2 against Cleveland, Cassell has played in five contests (3-5 versus Cleveland, 3-4 against Detroit), and he has been incredibly inept in all of them. House has waited patiently for his turn throughout the playoffs and provided this team with energy and stability when called upon.
I’ll stand by amusement at the irony of the sequence of events at the back-up point spot for the C’s. As I wrote after Game 7 against Cleveland: “So let’s get this sequence of events straight: Rondo and House play well all season. Concerns arise that House isn’t enough of a true point guard to have as the only back-up on the roster in case Rondo falters. Celtics sign veteran point guard Sam Cassell. House’s minutes completely evaporate come playoff time. Meanwhile, Cassell seems to shoot the rock every time he touches it. Rondo has some struggles in the biggest game of the season. Cassell goes ice cold. House comes off the bench instead of Cassell in Game 7 because he has played like more of a point guard and with a better semblance of control. House plays an integral role in winning that game. The bliss of shock strikes again.”
That still about sums it up for me.
If Sam isn’t going to hit shots, he can’t be on the floor. Eddie tonight.
MW: If the Celtics don’t win the title, was this season still a success? Or will the equivalent of another 18-1 be too much to bear?
I’m not sure how Danny Ainge, Doc Rivers and the fellows in the locker room will judge it, though I would sincerely hope that they continue the “nothing short of a title is acceptable” approach.
That said, what I know as a fan is this: Yes, I’ll be devastated if this team doesn’t win a championship, and I have no doubt that many of my Celts fan brethren will experience similar feelings. However, that by no means makes this season not ‘worth it’ or not a success. After years of misery for Celtics fans, this team provided us with a season full of magical moments, dominant performances and overall feeling of happiness that can’t be taken away no matter what the remainder of the playoffs brings.
Getting to watch this team interact and work together on the floor, getting to watch it bring true pride back to the green and white faithful, getting to joke that “We love this team because the players really do seem to care almost as much as we diehards do”: It’s all been nothing short of an absolute pleasure. That can’t be undone.
MW: Just how wide open is this team’s window for success after this season? In other words, Ray Allen’s max contract for two more years after this has to be making fans in Boston a little nervous, huh?
SW: To be perfectly honest, I’ve managed to get through nearly this entire campaign with nary a thought to the future. It was clear back in July when the KG trade was made that the goal was to win right now, and the season has been such a coast-to-coast joy that I’ve put off the worrying about the future. Yes, there have been a lot of concerns espoused about how the next couple of years and beyond will shake out (a cursory look at the forums on CelticsBlog will illuminate plenty of discussions on hose topics), and I think the fan base as a collective whole is worried about what the future will bring. But for my part, when our boys’ season ends, we’ll have five months to think about how things went down and to start fretting about the future. Right now, I’m in the midst of a spectacular ride with the 2007-08 group, and I’m happy to keep enjoying that to the max.
MW: Some of the Celtics tried to paint themselves as the underdogs in this series? Do you think they ever were? Are they now?
SW: Call me a slave to the brains in Vegas, but the C’s have been favored in all three home games in this series thus far, and if we get to a seventh game, I would all but guarantee (barring injury) that the Celts would be giving the points. If I’ve learned anything in watching, writing about and occasionally trying to handicap professional sports, it’s that the fellows out in Nevada know a heck of a lot more than the rest of the media pundits — and I — do.
The Celts should tell themselves whatever they need to in order to get them to come out and beat this Pistons team. But they weren’t ever underdogs in this series, nor are they now.
MW: I’m going to copy your word association idea:
- Kendrick Perkins: Coattails
- Doc Rivers: Polarizing
- Big 3: Stalin, FDR, Churchill
- Jason Maxiell: Nasty
- Antonio McDyess: Professional
- Bandwagon: Part of the territory that comes with success
- Tommy Points: Homerism of the best sort
MW: Last but not least, score prediction?
SW: Celts take it, 93-85
Thanks a lot for having me on, Matt, and best of luck tonight and in the rest of the series.
Anytime you can sneak an 18-1 reference in there, especially in a civil and especially devastating sort of way, deserves a round of applause. Well done.
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I love Steve’s word association for “the big three.” If I was forced to match, I’d have to say…
Churchill=Pierce
FDR=Allen
Stalin=Garnett
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, Shinons, but as a non-Boston native (born and bred in New York, vacillating between New York and the Midwest these days), I’m no Pats fan…though it will likely twist the knife for some of my readers…
Birdman, glad you enjoyed the word association.
Thanks again for having me aboard, Matt, and good luck tonight, Pistons folk.
-sw
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Shimmy shimmy
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Lead to succeed, lol
Sauce, you’re a bad, bad man who apparently hates the Celtics more than I do. Kudos to you on your madness surpassing mine. Steve Weinman is my hero for maintaining his Celtics fandom while calling Perk what he really is: lucky to have his teammates. That is so refreshingly admirable. If Celtics fans on the regular acted like Steve (Steve, if you’re around and you’ve ever been in the Garden for a game, do you participate in BS chants? Where do you come down on those?) we wouldn’t hate them so much.
In this year’s regular season, Darko averaged 7.2, 6.1, 1.6 blocks and .8 TOs in 23.8 minutes; Perkins averaged 7.0, 6.1, 1.5 blocks and 1.6 TOs in 24.5 minutes. If only the Grizzlies had drafted Barbosa (or any among the ten other solid players who were still available) instead of Perkins, wah wah. In the playoffs, Perky has only averaged 6.6, 6.2, 1.3 and 1.2. *Shakes head* OUCH. Not beastly. Not beastly at all.
Nobody who chose the Celtics can truly be admirable, LB.
I salute Steve and Celtics blog. He seems like a great guy, and the only problem I have with him is the colors on his team’s jersey.
I have a feeling that the Boston fans that ruin it for us are not the ones that rightfully hold a grudge, but the bandwagon assholes that are all over KG’s nutsweat. The people that have supported the Celtics year after year, all the way back to Bird, the people who go to games every year, who’ve known every Celtics player since Bird– they have a right to have a grudge against Detroit. But they’re also die hard basketball fans, and as a result have developed sportsmanship over the years.
The bandwagon assholes that start PerkIsABeast, talk trash on competitors blogs, criticize another players gum line, pop their Garnett jerseys on TV– these are the enemy. I have a feeling that the majority of informed, die hard Boston fans are good people like us, they’re just color blind to green/white.
That doesn’t mean I don’t want to tear their Boston jerseys off and take big sweaty dumps on the white and green right in front of them. My whole point though, kudos to Steve and Celtics blog.
“That doesn’t mean I don’t want to tear their Boston jerseys off and take big sweaty dumps on the white and green right in front of them.”
Isiah said we should.
“the bandwagon assholes that are all over KG’s nutsweat”
This elicited a laugh that could be classified as “out loud.”
Hey all,
Thanks a lot for the kind words — I’m glad you enjoyed my exchange with Matt and hope you get a chance to check out his answers to my questions over at CB as well.
Mike, since you mentioned the ‘color blind to green/white,’ I’ll take a moment to register the fact that I’m right with ya, and my “D’oh!” moment for the last few days has been consistently re-reading Matt’s mission statement on the right side of the page and wishing like hell that I’d thought of it first: “completely fair and unbiased opinions of 29 of the Association’s 30 teams.” As the general NBA columnist for CB, that really is my mantra in practice. I make no bones about the fact that before I am anything else, I am always first and foremost a diehard lover of the green, but beyond that, just doing my best to see everything as fairly and realistically as possible — although I can’t say I always succeed. Thanks for understanding the “one-team blindness” perspective.
LB, I’m glad somebody noticed the Perk comment, though I have no doubt a few of my Celts fan brethren won’t be thrilled with it. Perk is at times a polarizing figure in Celtics land, and one of the other word association lines I thought of for him was “over-appreciated in Beantown, under-appreciated everywhere else.” He’s still a 23-yr old kid with the potential to become a much better player than he is, and he has shone some flashes. In fact, I wrote a column lauding him after his Game 3 performance. But there is still so much that he has yet to do — he is by and large a vastly overrated ‘team defender,’ and his touch around the rim needs to improve by leaps and bounds — that I can’t seriously sit on the “Perk unstoppable” wagon too often. I’ll admit that he has been a constant whipping boy of mine for a long time, and I’m occasionally too critical of him, but I’ll root for him to the death and hope he keeps progressing. There’s still a ways to go though.
I’ve been to a few games at the Garden, and I’ll straddle the fence by saying that the “BS” chants should be used with discretion. I’m not a big believer in doing too much blaming of the refs — I’ll find you my extended thoughts on that somewhere, if I can dig them up — on a regular basis, but every now and then, something happens in a game that is egregious enough for it to be reasonable for the fans to let some anger out. How’s that suit you?
Thanks again for having me on folks, and I’m happy to chat anytime. I’ll try to check in a few times over the next couple of days as well. Good luck tonight, folks.
-sw
SW: It’s not like the BS chant never rings in The Palace, it’s just not heard nearly as often as it is in The Garden. It seems like Celtics fans go to it once a game or even more. At press time (truthfully, I haven’t given it a ton of thought), I wholly agree with your assessment. Some calls are so egregious that the only appropriate response seems to be displaying great frustration and/or disgust. Celtics fans filling the Garden have been known to break out the chant on a correct call though and that’s what eats at me. I would never under any circumstance engage in that type of behavior. It’s pathetic.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. As always, echoing fellow “DBBers”, it’s a pleasure to have you here, Steve.
No problem, LB. Pleasure to be here — and I understand what you’re saying about the BS chants; sounds like we’re on the same page about that.
In light of all the Perk commentary — and that he played the game of his life tonight — figured I’d let you know that I wrote about him after the game tonight — and it isn’t all as rosy green as you might expect. Thought you might be interested in the piece: http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3226&Itemid=189
Thanks for the time, and I look forward to chatting further with all of you folks here at DBB. Good luck Friday night.
-sw
The idea is to have meaningful exchange between true basketball fans, no matter our individual club allegiances. I’m glad Matt brought you over to chat, Steve, and good luck to CB in the future.
Steve – good stuff. I’ve been trying to hold it down here. Don’t know where the perception that Perkins is a regarded as a star in Boston came from. In my circles, and during the game people pull out their hair when he takes forever to collect himself or bounces the ball to score – instead of just laying it up. Saying that I don’t expect Perk to repeat that BEASTLY performance since Pistons won’t leave him alone for easy layups again.
I think Rondo will pleasantly surprise us next year. The pressure on him to lead the talent on this team with the high expectations deserves a B+. He’s only 22 and has improved his game a lot. It took former Celtics, CB, years to understand the PG spot and RR has done an outstanding job with limited experience in the league.
@Lawyerboy – don’t know what your gripe is about the chants. The Eddie chants was a “we appreciate you chant” since he’s been pined for a while. The dispute chants “usually” are reaction to a “bs” call; like I stated before, ESPN and ABC sometimes don’t show the replays of the bad calls. BTW- I can’t stand their MJ, Van Gundy and Co. Some of the time they don’t have a clue. Don’t know where the perception is coming from, but I guess my only opinion is that you have to be at the Garden to make sense of the chants, which some are very clever and hilarious! Lol
Good series so far. Detroit once again pounded the ball too much and didn’t swing it to the weak side too much, however the Cs did a better job closing out the weak side too. Don’t know why on earth the Cs bring the ball to the corners, instead of attacking the middle. I’m just bewildered that this is the NBA and they can’t beat this lame press – perhaps it’s because the starters played too many minutes. IDK…