From the Detroit Free Press:
In a statement released this morning, president of basketball operations Joe Dumars said: “Decisions like this are difficult to make, especially with the success we have had throughout the last three regular-seasons. However, at this time, I feel it is necessary to make a change. I thank Flip for his hard work and dedication, but it is time for a new voice to lead our team.”
Update: I’m hearing there’s a press conference will be at 2 pm.
2nd Update: A. Sherrod Blakely says Michael Curry will be announced sometime this week.
3rd Update: Keith Langlois is saying Michael Curry, too.
No word yet on a successor to Saunders, though it would be at least a mild surprise if it wasn’t going to be Michael Curry. A former teammate of Dumars in the ’90s, Curry was brought back to Detroit as a free agent at the urging of Dumars in his one-year transition period from player to president when Rick Sund was general manager. Dumars brought Curry back to the team last summer as an assistant coach after Curry had spent two years working for the league office.
Though it would normally seem risky to hire a first-time head coach – especially one with just one year as an assistant under his belt – as the leader of a title-contending team, Curry would assume the job under difference circumstances. Not only is he deeply respected by the current players – Curry, as an NBA role player, rose to president of Players Association – but Curry is eminently steeped in Pistons culture.
4th Update: Chris McCosky is pinning this on Bill Davidson: “Apparently, Pistons owner Bill Davidson has seen enough of the Flip Saunders era.”
I find it extremely hard to believe Joe Dumars didn’t agree with the move. Suggesting otherwise just seems defensive.
Update V: I just called and received confirmation that Rasheed Wallace is still scheduled to appear at SNYX tonight. The idea of actually attending that just got a lot more interesting.
Adios. Cue the “Who’s taking over” guesses.
My guess: Isiah Thomas
(kidding)
*dance*
*dance*
*dance*
*dance*
*dance*
Thanks to Flip Saunders for some good memories. For somebody who has a lot better track record than media favorite Mike D’Antoni you sure took a lot of stick in the press and from fans. Best of luck in the future.
Condolences to our own Phil Saunders.
OH SNAP!
In other news, Chris McCosky reports that Chris McCosky’s job is safe.
sweet, he’ll be gone in two days. The hack “journalist” is dead, long live the hack “journalist”!
In related news, my “Rasheed to age gracefully into a rich man’s Robert Horry as a Detroit Piston” prediction is looking better!
Farewell to Flip. One of his faults was being a nice guy… which isn’t the worst fault to have. I think Flip could be a good coach for the Suns. He could bring more motion into their offense and definitely help improve their defense (how could he not?).
Flip is, and has always been, garbage! He provides a clear example of how important coaching is even at the highest levels. I truly hope Joe is able to keep the players together and find better leadership so that this incarnation of the Pistons doesn’t die in infamy with teams like the Atlanta Braves and Buffalo Bills. F Flip!
Really. Michael Curry? Is that really confirmed?
I’m with Sauce- I couldn’t be more thrilled. That team was stale and more stale, and if the players are supposed to embody the personality of the coach, and the players played predictably flat, stagnant, and prone to collapse– that is indeed a reflection on the Flipster.
Yeah yeah I know, trips to the eastern conference finals, big regular season records… but in all honesty, if a coach’s voice falls deafly on a team, what’s the point of a coach. Abdenour and Kander could have split head coaching duties and this team would have still made the playoffs; perhaps those two would have exhibited a tougher personality that would have injected more hunger into a team that we all know is prone to 4th quarter mental lapses in elimination games.
Smooth and Rip will tell you that they are a 4th quarter veteran savy team and that “if it aint rough, it aint right.” Well, in the elimination game vs the Quicken Loans Lebrons last year, we were down by one, 67-66 entering the 4th quarter. The Pistons then showed the mental toughness we’ve come to expect by collapsing and were outscored 31-16 in the 4th quarter.
Against Team David Stern’s Jackpot this year in the elimination game, we were up 68-60 heading to the 4th. Yet as we all know, we collapsed like Universal Studies in the 4th quarter and were annihilated and outscored 29-13 in the 4th. Zero mental toughness,
I get that the coach doesn’t play, the players do, so why throw the coach under Roundball one? How-ev-a, if the players on the court who are playing aren’t getting the job done, you need a coach that has the intestinal fortitude to yank them out of the game- whomever that player may be, and insert a player who is hungry to succeed.
Best of luck, Flip. Whatever else is said, you were one Piston who always tried to do his best. Thank you.
//end-of-rant, but elated that this team has finally rid itself of both Flips
No tears of sorrow here, but I’m going to have to be convinced that Curry is for real and not just a stop gap coach. I’ll say it again, though, I trust Joe.
The ESPN morons are up and fluttering, giving us standout choices like Avery Johnson, any Celtics assistant, and Jeff Van Gundy.
The world wants us to fail.
You know what I’m gonna miss?
It’s Flip, baby!
To quote Oz: “Flip was a very good man, just a very bad wizard.”
Shinons, I hear that’s not Zeke’s likely career move.
*Is indifferent about the whole thing*. He’ll be a good developmental coach for some up and coming team. Although, I cant think of who would need him right now (Collins has been confirmed as the Bulls coach right?)
Yeah its gonna be intresting to see who they pick. I dont know if there is anyone better. But I guess he had to go, even though I think he did a decent job this year.
I have a feeling that it won’t be just flip that the axe falls on. there needs to be a whole shift in culture with this team. i think we’re all tired of “it ain’t rough, it ain’t right”
How many years of coaching experience does Michael Curry have? 1? 2? I’d rather have Avery Johnson than him ..
It’s not just flip, get that celtic off our bench as well. We have supposedly had some of the best coaches on the pine for the last 3 years this could not have come soon enough. What a disgrace these e.c.f.’s have been. This is almost instant gratification. Instead of having four middle of the road coaches can we please just find one leader, just one baby!
Yes, O-Town.
And a ban on any Celtics lifers in our realm. Hell with that team.
Yeah Flip going to the Suns might be a good fit….But good luck working with the Diesel.
What’s Flip’s next move going to be? Project Runway? I’ll really miss those horrible pinstriped suits…
Why do my stupid a tags never work on here?
Shinons - are you closing your tags properly? ““?
Let’s get rid of that george lucas looking fellow who always comes into the games late and sits right next to the Pistons bench. You guys know who I’m talking about…the dude has seats between “Rockin’ Rick Mahorn” and trainer Mike Abdenour.
Seriously man, you got seats like that and only watch 2 quarters of hoops?
Flip’s a great coach for a team like the Bucks, Grizzlies, Sonics, any D-league team, overseas . . .
Actually, Flip should try coaching college.
I say take C.B. with him to Phoenix and send the Diesel to Motown. All we need is about 15-20 a game from a true center and we are back. Continue to work in the Zoo Crew all regular season with extended minutes.
‘09 ecf
rip & ucla
stuck & dixon
tay & draft pick
sheed, dice, max, & 25
shaq & samb
give this team a yr or two and the kids will be ready
There isn’t a coach available that can motivate the current lineup.
In Joe D I trust. I am not crazy about this but I have to trust Joe D.
Best Joe D moves.
1. Trade for Rip.
2. Sign and trade for Big Ben
3. Picking Tay in the draft.
4. Not matching the Bulls offer for Ben.
5. Drafting Stuckey.
6. Drafting Mad Max.
7. trading Darko to the Magic and getting the pick that got us Stuckey.
8. The trade for Sheed. love him or hate him without this guy no ring in 2004.
9. signing of Mr. Big Shot
10. Taking a chance on dice.
11. sending Narz to the bobcats
12. hiring LB
13. hiring Flip.He did not win a ring but he did win over 70% of his games.
Bad joe D moves.
1. Darko!!!
2. Rodney White draft pick
There is more good than bad. So there is no reason for us to 2nd guess Joe D. Not sure is Amir was a good or bad move yet.
Bernie Smilovitz, WDIV, is claiming several off-the-field issues . . . unspecified . . . are those all Rasheed Wallace, or what’s with that bit of info?
Snaqs O’Neal should be resting around the house in PHX until they buy him out of his cap killer deal.
Carey…you can put Amir in the good column…even if he never improves(which I think is VERY unlikely), you have to remember he was the 56th pick in the draft. Most guys drafted late second round don’t even make it in the league.
Sauce1977
Jun 3rd, 2008 at 11:38 am
The ESPN morons are up and fluttering, giving us standout choices like Avery Johnson, any Celtics assistant, and Jeff Van Gundy.
The world wants us to fail.
^^^^
I dont know, all things considered thats not the worse selection. I dont know if Boston would be stupid enough to let go of Theibo (sp?), but if they do, I’d try to snatch him up some how. JVG I think can be a good coach with a complete deep team ( I look more to his run with the Knicks rather than the Rockets, cause I dont think Houston never was built to buy into his style of play, whereas New York was and this current era Pistons is similar).
Woot Woot! See ya later Saunders! I was getting very sick of that wierd lip twitch thing he does. Especially during intense times, it looks like a circuit blew in his jaw. You all know wtf I’m talking about.
Oh and whomever even mentioned Jeff Van Gundy in these comments should be euthanized. True story.
So does the fact that Flip was fired and will be replaced by Curry indicate anything about the direction Joe D wants to take this team?
Curry seems to be a born leader and I’m sure he’ll relate to the players better then Flip and motivate the players better then Flip (especially if we add Lindsey as an assistant too). However, he does only have 1 year on the bench and no head coaching experience. McCoskey makes a good point when he said you can’t Curry to bring a team a championship in his 1st year considering his credentials.
In my opinion, I think this indicates Joe D is going to try and reload over the next couple years through trades, free agency, draft picks. It’ll allow the young guys to get lots of PT and give Curry some more experience so that in a couple years we’ll be title contenders again.
Avery Johnson is no longer qualified to coach top-level clubs. You don’t get shamed out of the first round 2 straight years with a comparable club and have any snowball’s chance in hell of coaching this club.
Van Gundy played Celtics cheerleader during the ECF broadcasts, and when he wasn’t cheerleading, he was mostly giving dumb analysis. I think it’s safe to say that Jeff Van Gundy should be on a Pistons black list indefinitely.
Thibodeau is a creation of ESPN. I would sooner pluck all of my ass-hairs than ever have another scumbag Celtics creation roaming OUR sidelines.
First off, let me echo the comments of most that whatever Joe D. decides to do, I have the ultimate faith.
That being said, reading through most of the comments a lot of readers seem to think Flip wasn’t tough enough on the players, however player gripes with when he was tough with them (and was justified in those actions)seem to be leading to his dismisal. That quandry should be enough to make your head explode. I looked at the Flip Fate decision as if Joe D and Mr. D thought he did a good job actually coaching this team (the x’s and o’s) they would keep him and blow up some of the other main pieces and start with a group they thought would listen to Flip since they had faith in his knowledge. That, obviously, is not the path they have chosen.
If Curry is the choice, I sincerely hope it’s because he was the one that worked with the bench so much this year and the braintrust feels like that is where the emphasis should be put for the future and not because he will cave into the demands of the veterans. We already saw how that works and its called 2006.
I agree with many others that the culture does have to change. Baby steps were made from last year, but more significant steps need to be taken this offseason. I love Rasheed, but he has to go if you want this next coach to have any chance. Last year’s blowup was somewhat understandable since if memory serves, he was whistled for three fouls in about 30 seconds. This year, his performance in Game Six, was childish, selfish, immature, completely inexcusable as well as contradictory to any statements he has made about it all being about the playoffs and winning there.
So again, I’ll say if Curry is the choice based on the let’s get back to hard work mantra-kudos. If Curry is the choice based on he won’t rock the ship and let the veterans do as they please, I have my concerns.
From what Im reading around the boards and the blogs, the 2 O’Clock Press conference is going to introduce Curry as the coach….
Shit.
I mean he seemed like a decent assistant coach. But hes only got one years experience and will the core listen to him. I guess this pretty much confirms our window is closed.
Player X - 6′4″, 528 games, 15.5 mpg, .414 FG%
Player Y - 6′5″, 667 games, 19.8 mpg, .447 FG%
Player Z - 6′8″, 807 games, 17.6 mpg, .453 FG%
X = Pat Riley, Y = Micheal Curry, Z = Phil Jackson
Good riddance… now if we could only rid ourselves of that #32 fellow with the mask, my summer is discontent will be shorter than originally thought.
You might get your wish, Boney, since I don’t think firing Flip means all these guys stay like Billups was yapping about after the Game 6 loss.
In fact, one has to ask how this affects Chauncey, who was more of a connected player to Flip than the others.
So how many players from the core 4 do you all think are gonna be gone this summer?
Sauce, I agree and have thought for a long time C.B. is too much like Reggie Miller. Rather than go for the throat they want to be the hero of a last second shot. Well call me BLUE. Dump the contract for a shorter one (Diesel) just in time to sign Stuck to his big payday when the Diesel’s is up.
To me, this says the major moves are over. Unless someone goes bonkers for Sheed (like Elton Brand for Sheed and the #29), I think Joe D’s mandate will be to the players. “This is your guy, you better go out and perform for him. I’m done firing coaches for you guys.”
Leaving the merits of the trade aside you’d have to trade ‘Sheed and ‘Dyess to make the money work with the cap. Or Billups, Rip & Afflalo. Shaq makes A LOT of $$$.
I thought shaq had like 40m left and cb had like 60m?
Well, some of you on here got your wish, no more Flip. I hope Joe D doesn’t end there. The players on this team need the motivation to go out and take the games the way they used to. I don’t think any one player is above being sent away if it means better chemistry. Maybe we expect players to be something they’re not (Tay = non-agressive comes to mind) but I think player changes are a MUST if this team is going to stay in the upper section of NBA teams. If they could all play with the heart of Dyess and Maxiell, we’d be a lot better off. Is that asking too much?
As for Curry being a coach…why? I’d rather see Lindsay Hunter step into the head job, considering he was more coach than player this year. I do, er, trust Joe D to do the right thing though. Track record, as indicated so well by Carey, is very solid!
Hope you all have a great summer. Baseball season began last Friday night in my household.
Q Dog
And the world is safe again.
Yep you were right that would put us 13m over
O-Town General - I think you have to add the money on an annual basis, not over the term of the contract. RealGM has a lot of good resources on the ins and outs of the salary cap. I used their Trade Checker to test out trades. I believe Matt W. said it’s much more accurate than ESPN’s trade machine.
As a perrenial Flip basher. I would like to wish him luck. Good guy, I just don’t think he is a difference making coach. There are not many of them in the league but I also think he was a terrible fit from the get. I cringed the day they hired him and I am relieved his Piston tenure is over.
I happen to believe Curry is a good choice. He was respected as a coach when he was still playing so I don’t really see that being a issue at all.
The Laimbeer supporters are out of thier minds. The guy was very driven as a player but is kind of a goof ball outside the lines. Respect would’ve been more of an issue with The Chairman than anybody -cough-cough….WNBA.
You can’t blame all of our failures on Flip but the bottom line is he never got us to where this team neede to be so in that sense he failed. Everyone is accountable and Flip was just first in line. In joe I trust.
Oh…and you people wanting Shaq: what the hell are you thinking? (or are you?) There is no way he can help this team and will just get in the way of player development. I want NO minutes taken away from Max or Amir next year, especially by a over-the-hill Shaq. Jesus!
/end rant
Q Dog
This is a bad time of year for coaching choices, but I guess there wasn’t anything that could be done. No way in hell should Flip have received a contract extension. Possibly, no way in hell did Flip want to coach without one. Or, maybe Davidson stepped in again and said, “that guy (name your coach), he’s no good. I want him gone.”
Maybe we’ll find out more.
I’m happy Flip’s gone, though . . . I’m not happy with the Avery / Van Gundy / Fratello nonsense. A new coach at least has nothing on his plate that people can use against him. Chuck Daly, Popovich, and Phil Jackson, they were all new coaches once.
My apologies Q Dog. I feel the same about c.b. aka reggie
Well, I have a hard time believing that the Pistons will find a better coach than Flip Saunders. Ultimately, the job of the coach is to put the players in positions to win. Flip does that, when the team follows his (very good) offensive sets. He’s not the greatest motivator, but shouldn’t the vast majority of motivation come from inside the players themselves? Isn’t it the responsibility of the grown men playing for the Pistons to make the right on-court decisions?
The Braves of the NBA are off to a stunning start.
That’ll teach dummy King Stern to space out the Finals this long! MUAHAHAHAHA STORYJACK!
No chance now, but I wonder if D’antoini would’ve been in interested in the D? Would’ve been fun seeing Tay and Amir catching oops all day long.
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=3509
Flip’s poll
7) Would you want Flip Saunders coaching your favorite NBA team?
53.3% No
46.7% Yes
Total Votes: 6,157
I think that says a lot.
Will somebody attend that ‘Sheed-shoe deal and get a low-down?
Rob Parker and not Krista Jahnke getting airtime? http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3423956&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines
Sacre bleu!
Well, the presser is going to start in a few, it should be interesting.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!
YES!
Flip wasn’t a bad coach - he just wasn’t a difference-making coach. Definitely agree with UTEP2STEP, there aren’t alot of difference-making coaches around. It’ll take a special coach to motivate this team. Doc Rivers isn’t the reason the celtics are in the finals.
Also, enough nonsense about bringing Shaq in…seriously. I happen to agree we need a true center but not only is he inconsistent offensively, but he is a straight up LIABILITY on defense. I, for one, would rather bring back Big Ben (I think he left because he didnt want to play for Flip anyway) than have Shaq here.
to paraphrase joe d. during the press conference today: “you’re damn right i plan on making some changes”
Coach A: 938 wins, .662 winning percentage
Coach B: 605 wins, .590 winning percentage
Coach C: 587 wins, .597 winning percentage
Coach D: 867 wins, .575 winning percentage
Coach A is Red Auerbach, Coach B is Chuck Daly, Coach C is Flip, and Coach D is Don Nelson. Contrary to some of the comments, Flip is not a bad coach. He just wasn’t a great fit - these particular players didn’t seem to have much respect for him. Just trying to keep a little perspective.
I am impressed that the comments are still so active. I figured that Piston fans would sort of dissapear for a while after getting booted from the playoffs.
47 comments on a 3 hour old post is impressive… I should have had more faith in you all.
@Mark B.
Suggesting we bring back Ben Wallace is as foolish as the Shaq suggestions above. We let Ben go because he wasn’t worth what he was asking for and his career was on the decline. Picking him up would mean picking up an ugly contract, a shell of a former all star player, and a certain continued decline.
I’ve said it on a few other threads: Biedrins, baby.
interesting points abour the press conference today
- every player is in play in regards to trades
- he’s not interested in completely stripping the team and starting all over
- he will be interviewing a few people for the job, but the decision will be quick and not drawn out
- during the playoffs, he looked at the four remaining teams, Lakers, Celtics, Spurs and Pistons, and said that the other three teams were brought it every night, whereas the pistons did not
- as he left the palace after being eliminated in game six, he said to himself, “i’ve seen enough”
“Flip is not a bad coach. He just wasn’t a great fit - these particular players didn’t seem to have much respect for him. Just trying to keep a little perspective.” - This is exactly right. He’s going to have another coaching job soon enough, and most likely will do very well with it.
The fact that only SIX coaches have won rings in the past twenty years should tell us something, and that is: let’s hope Curry is a transcendently awesome legendary and unbelievably good coach, or else we’re not getting another ’ship.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/saundfl99c.html
0-0 in the playoffs is better than 47-51, to me.
So much for all of the “keep it together” ideas. Joe says everyone except Stuck is on the table.
People suggesting Jeff Van Gundy and Avery Johnson as next coach = Flip’s Fault.
With all the talk about change, why isn’t anyone talking about moving Billups? Especially when Stuckey is the only untouchable and he’s going to be the point guard of the future? Not to get all Rosenberg, but it’s going to be Stuckey’s team.
Although I’m tired of flaming out in the conference finals, I’m kind of sad to see Flip go. Like everyone has already pointed out, he was a nice guy, a smart coach, and a successful coach (for the most part). Hopefully he gets a decent job some where, because I’m sure he loves the game more than anything. Here’s to a fresh start and an exciting summer, folks.
Amir should coach too, a la Bill Russell.
all of the fucksticks at BlogaBull (except for the moderator) are happy that Flip was fired in Detroit so now John Paxson can once again bring in another Detroit retread to build their team around.
Flip was a nice guy, but he was horrible at making adjustments. Goodbye, and good riddance.
Sauce, nice argument in the espn message boards by the way…
shaq? seriously? he’s going to help us be consistent and more respectful of our coach? are we in bizarro world? that lump of dump is done. let’s not even mention his name, we’re better than that. we’re the pistons, ring chasers and ego-maniacs need not apply.
Boney, I had to represent. I knew the Boston scumbags would show up. I also knew that Avery and Van Gundy would get plenty of lip service. Our team deserves better than dullards @ ESPN telling the world how we should kill our franchise. Our own fans are like chickens with their heads cut off right now . . . the vermin strike when one is weakest.
Chicago Media is as much to blame for the constant mess of their teams as the ownership and front offices. The lies and misconceptions that are portrayed to their fans, well, it’s not right, but far be it from me to complain about fairness for a team that won six rings with Daddy Stern babying the Bulls the whole way.
I am hopeful that Joe will do the right thing, but the idea that Boston and the Spurs brough it it every night? In the first couple of rounds, Boston lost 6 of 6 road games, including some blowouts and some losses to the greatly inferior (talent-wise) Hawks. The Spurs got killed by the Hornets every game in the Big Easy. Something bad happened in the ECF to Detroit, as it has in the past two years, so something should be done, but let’s not get carried away and let’s not panic.
Shinons - Flip’s regular-season record certainly was fine. But when you coach 11 years in the league and deliver no NBA Finals appearances, including none in three years in Detroit (despite always having the #1 or #2 seed), that suggests that you’re not quite the answer for a contending team. Flip has warning-track power, but doesn’t clear the fences.
Mike Payne - I apologize, I didn’t mean to sound like I actually want to bring Ben back…i’m just saying i’d rather have him on the team than Shaq because at least he can still play a little D…somewhat. But yeah, that’s just how badly I think of Shaq
Joe,
Give the job to Bill Lambier!!!!!!
Sign Bill
Larry Brown was in the league for 20 years before he made a Finals appearance. But wasn’t he the answer for us as a contending team?
I mean, they say stuff like this about coaches all the time. As an Indianapolis native, Colts fans used to say this same thing about Dungy. Now they think he’s some sort of God. What about Mike D’Antoni? His playoff winning percentage is lower than Flip’s, despite a better regular season winning percentage. Is he a choker? Is Jerry Sloan? George Karl? Don Nelson? Dunleavy? Aldeman?
It’s not easy to win a title in this league. The fact that only two active coaches in the league have won one is testament to that. That said, I won’t argue that Flip wasn’t a good fit here. I’m just saying that he’s a good coach.
LARRY BIRD