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	<title>Comments on: Joe Dumars speaks</title>
	<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/</link>
	<description>A Detroit Pistons blog</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 11:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2</generator>
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		<title>By: Mike Payne</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139895</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Payne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 06:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139895</guid>
		<description>@John M:
Flip was fired because we didn't win a championship.  "Almost" doesn't count in basketball, unfortunately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@John M:<br />
Flip was fired because we didn&#8217;t win a championship.  &#8220;Almost&#8221; doesn&#8217;t count in basketball, unfortunately.</p>
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		<title>By: john m</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139893</link>
		<dc:creator>john m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 05:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139893</guid>
		<description>Joe is an idiot and should be fired. Why fire a coach who almost beat the champs, they played better than LA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe is an idiot and should be fired. Why fire a coach who almost beat the champs, they played better than LA</p>
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		<title>By: Coming around on Michael Curry &#124; Detroit Bad Boys</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139471</link>
		<dc:creator>Coming around on Michael Curry &#124; Detroit Bad Boys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139471</guid>
		<description>[...] refused to get into specifics about Flip Saunders&#8217; failings during last week&#8217;s press conference, but he did indicate that everybody wasn&#8217;t always on the same page. I&#8217;m sure he was [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] refused to get into specifics about Flip Saunders&#8217; failings during last week&#8217;s press conference, but he did indicate that everybody wasn&#8217;t always on the same page. I&#8217;m sure he was [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: PISTONS off-season scenario I see as plausible - Page 9 - SpartanTailgate.com - Michigan State Spartans Forums</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139196</link>
		<dc:creator>PISTONS off-season scenario I see as plausible - Page 9 - SpartanTailgate.com - Michigan State Spartans Forums</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 00:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139196</guid>
		<description>[...]     Here's a better idea: watch this press conference and realize that's not going to happen. Joe Dumars speaks &#124; Detroit Bad Boys  Here, I'll even transcribe the most relevant part.    [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;]     Here&#8217;s a better idea: watch this press conference and realize that&#8217;s not going to happen. Joe Dumars speaks | Detroit Bad Boys  Here, I&#8217;ll even transcribe the most relevant part.    [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Sauce1977</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139113</link>
		<dc:creator>Sauce1977</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 21:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139113</guid>
		<description>Taco John, you should read the hot mess that litters most national boards in regard to Pistons trades now that "everyone is on the table."

I read one that had Lamar Odom for Tayshaun Prince.

It made zero sense, like it makes zero sense now.  They're both point forwards, only one of us hasn't been running the Tex Winter triangle, and it's about an even swap.  Then it hit me.

All these bajidiots (billions of idiots) write crap about our franchise, but they secretly want our players, for next to nothing, or just part-for-same-part trades.  They despise the "Bad Boys," hate this, that, but really, when it comes down to it, they'd love Rasheed helping their pathetic frigging team to their 1st-ever championship.  Why?  We do the same goddamn thing here, like Joe said.  We praise Rasheed when he pulls a badass game, and we put him on the roasting spit when he turns in a 4 point, 5 foul game.

The real head-turner, for me, it's the Flip Saunders poll on ESPN.  A slight majority thinks Joe Dumars is an idiot for firing Flip, for whatever reason.  "Best thing out there," "treating a nice guy poorly," or whatever other stupid shit.  Then . . . 

Down at the bottom, ESPN asked if these people would want Flip to coach THEIR favorite team.

Overwhelming "NO."

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=3509

7) Would you want Flip Saunders coaching your favorite NBA team?

57.1%	No
42.9%	Yes

Total Votes: 22,793

Hmm.

I say, eff everyone and everything else.  Trust in Joe Dumars until you can't trust him.  Count on Detroit being back in the mix with any kind of roster.  Chuckle quietly when ESPN picks Chicago or Boston to win it all next year, whatever their bajidiots want to hear, it'll be fit to print, believe that.  And watch as it doesn't work out that way.  When we succeed, stick it to 'em.  Because they'll never like "us," even though they demand we like "them."

These are my bloody gums, smiling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taco John, you should read the hot mess that litters most national boards in regard to Pistons trades now that &#8220;everyone is on the table.&#8221;</p>
<p>I read one that had Lamar Odom for Tayshaun Prince.</p>
<p>It made zero sense, like it makes zero sense now.  They&#8217;re both point forwards, only one of us hasn&#8217;t been running the Tex Winter triangle, and it&#8217;s about an even swap.  Then it hit me.</p>
<p>All these bajidiots (billions of idiots) write crap about our franchise, but they secretly want our players, for next to nothing, or just part-for-same-part trades.  They despise the &#8220;Bad Boys,&#8221; hate this, that, but really, when it comes down to it, they&#8217;d love Rasheed helping their pathetic frigging team to their 1st-ever championship.  Why?  We do the same goddamn thing here, like Joe said.  We praise Rasheed when he pulls a badass game, and we put him on the roasting spit when he turns in a 4 point, 5 foul game.</p>
<p>The real head-turner, for me, it&#8217;s the Flip Saunders poll on ESPN.  A slight majority thinks Joe Dumars is an idiot for firing Flip, for whatever reason.  &#8220;Best thing out there,&#8221; &#8220;treating a nice guy poorly,&#8221; or whatever other stupid shit.  Then . . . </p>
<p>Down at the bottom, ESPN asked if these people would want Flip to coach THEIR favorite team.</p>
<p>Overwhelming &#8220;NO.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=3509" rel="nofollow">http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=3509</a></p>
<p>7) Would you want Flip Saunders coaching your favorite NBA team?</p>
<p>57.1%	No<br />
42.9%	Yes</p>
<p>Total Votes: 22,793</p>
<p>Hmm.</p>
<p>I say, eff everyone and everything else.  Trust in Joe Dumars until you can&#8217;t trust him.  Count on Detroit being back in the mix with any kind of roster.  Chuckle quietly when ESPN picks Chicago or Boston to win it all next year, whatever their bajidiots want to hear, it&#8217;ll be fit to print, believe that.  And watch as it doesn&#8217;t work out that way.  When we succeed, stick it to &#8216;em.  Because they&#8217;ll never like &#8220;us,&#8221; even though they demand we like &#8220;them.&#8221;</p>
<p>These are my bloody gums, smiling.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Payne</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139107</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Payne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 21:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139107</guid>
		<description>@Skylar:
re: Chauncey.  Difficult round one matchup with Miller aside, Chauncey was injured for most of the playoffs.  I'm not totally excited by Chauncey's post-season, but I do suggest you cut him some slack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Skylar:<br />
re: Chauncey.  Difficult round one matchup with Miller aside, Chauncey was injured for most of the playoffs.  I&#8217;m not totally excited by Chauncey&#8217;s post-season, but I do suggest you cut him some slack.</p>
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		<title>By: Evelyn</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139097</link>
		<dc:creator>Evelyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 18:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139097</guid>
		<description>I agree with Skylar. I was pissed this year with the Pistons . They have gotten too laid back and act like they don't give a damn. We need a coach Who will get up in their assets and tell them If you don't want to play with all your heart that your ass can be replaced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Skylar. I was pissed this year with the Pistons . They have gotten too laid back and act like they don&#8217;t give a damn. We need a coach Who will get up in their assets and tell them If you don&#8217;t want to play with all your heart that your ass can be replaced.</p>
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		<title>By: Wilpo</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139096</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilpo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139096</guid>
		<description>This has been a crazy ride for the Pistons. Getting rid of Flip was a hard, but right thing to do. This team is an awesome team. One of the best. Let me put it this way, a parents job is to teach, groom , and motivate their child to excel to higher heights. This will not happen if the parent tries to be a friend to their child, and not raise them. The same could be said about Flip and the Pistons. They lack the hunger, drive and the focus they had in 2004. Joe Dumars sees this and will make the necessary changes that will make this team a threat once again. And believe me Joe will make the right decisions concerning the team. Something must be done and it will be done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has been a crazy ride for the Pistons. Getting rid of Flip was a hard, but right thing to do. This team is an awesome team. One of the best. Let me put it this way, a parents job is to teach, groom , and motivate their child to excel to higher heights. This will not happen if the parent tries to be a friend to their child, and not raise them. The same could be said about Flip and the Pistons. They lack the hunger, drive and the focus they had in 2004. Joe Dumars sees this and will make the necessary changes that will make this team a threat once again. And believe me Joe will make the right decisions concerning the team. Something must be done and it will be done.</p>
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		<title>By: Skylar</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139087</link>
		<dc:creator>Skylar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139087</guid>
		<description>Flip HAD to go. This is one of the best teams in the league, never getting to the finals in 3 years, much less not winning a title, is inexcusable. Unfortunately he didn't have the clout with the players that a coach desperately needs. I woulda ousted him after that Cavs exit. Watch Flip in the years to come. No title. This is the best team he'll ever coach. 

Personally I'm just as pissed at Billups. Big contract, says he's the face of the team, his nicknames are "Smooth" and "Mr. Big Shot", and he was neither. He had alot to prove against Boston and never showed it. 

I love all the dudes on our team but Joe knows what has to be done, and already made that clear bouncing Flip and putting a target on the starters. This is good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flip HAD to go. This is one of the best teams in the league, never getting to the finals in 3 years, much less not winning a title, is inexcusable. Unfortunately he didn&#8217;t have the clout with the players that a coach desperately needs. I woulda ousted him after that Cavs exit. Watch Flip in the years to come. No title. This is the best team he&#8217;ll ever coach. </p>
<p>Personally I&#8217;m just as pissed at Billups. Big contract, says he&#8217;s the face of the team, his nicknames are &#8220;Smooth&#8221; and &#8220;Mr. Big Shot&#8221;, and he was neither. He had alot to prove against Boston and never showed it. </p>
<p>I love all the dudes on our team but Joe knows what has to be done, and already made that clear bouncing Flip and putting a target on the starters. This is good.</p>
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		<title>By: Toledo Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139081</link>
		<dc:creator>Toledo Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:56:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139081</guid>
		<description>Having had a couple of days of perspective, I kind of agree with mwhyte72:  last year was more embarrassing, this year's Celtics are better than last year's Cavs.  This year's Celtics have three lock HOFers, and a supporting cast that turned out to be better than people thought.  The Pistons don't have a single player who can start on the All-Star team in a weak ECF and, with the exception of Stuckey most of the time and Maxiell some of the time, had a supporting cast a bit weaker than people thought.  Boston looked weakened coming into the Detroit series (hadn't won a road playoff game, Allen slumping), but they reverted to normal, eventually.  Bottom line:  they were the better team.

On the other hand, it really is "no excuses" time.  After losing to the Spurs in a game 7 in San Antonio in '05, the message was "get home court advantage."  So the Pistons won a zillion games in '05-'06, but lost to the Heat.  The message there was, the starters were tired.  Detroit didn't fix that problem for '06-'07, but instead tried to bring back Webber to put them over the top, kind of like 'Sheed did in '04.  Webber had a bad playoffs, although so did pretty much everybody else in the finals.  So the lesson for this year was "play the bench more."

We played the bench more, although again, by the end, it was only Stuckey and Maxiell, with a few nice moments for Hunter.  Still no backup for Tayshaun.

So again, I'm torn.  Something has to happen, but it's hard to figure out exactly what, and I would hate to see a panicky Suns/Mavs type move.  Joe has made some great moves and not-so-great moves in the past.  This will be his biggest challenge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having had a couple of days of perspective, I kind of agree with mwhyte72:  last year was more embarrassing, this year&#8217;s Celtics are better than last year&#8217;s Cavs.  This year&#8217;s Celtics have three lock HOFers, and a supporting cast that turned out to be better than people thought.  The Pistons don&#8217;t have a single player who can start on the All-Star team in a weak ECF and, with the exception of Stuckey most of the time and Maxiell some of the time, had a supporting cast a bit weaker than people thought.  Boston looked weakened coming into the Detroit series (hadn&#8217;t won a road playoff game, Allen slumping), but they reverted to normal, eventually.  Bottom line:  they were the better team.</p>
<p>On the other hand, it really is &#8220;no excuses&#8221; time.  After losing to the Spurs in a game 7 in San Antonio in &#8216;05, the message was &#8220;get home court advantage.&#8221;  So the Pistons won a zillion games in &#8216;05-&#8217;06, but lost to the Heat.  The message there was, the starters were tired.  Detroit didn&#8217;t fix that problem for &#8216;06-&#8217;07, but instead tried to bring back Webber to put them over the top, kind of like &#8216;Sheed did in &#8216;04.  Webber had a bad playoffs, although so did pretty much everybody else in the finals.  So the lesson for this year was &#8220;play the bench more.&#8221;</p>
<p>We played the bench more, although again, by the end, it was only Stuckey and Maxiell, with a few nice moments for Hunter.  Still no backup for Tayshaun.</p>
<p>So again, I&#8217;m torn.  Something has to happen, but it&#8217;s hard to figure out exactly what, and I would hate to see a panicky Suns/Mavs type move.  Joe has made some great moves and not-so-great moves in the past.  This will be his biggest challenge.</p>
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		<title>By: mwhyte72</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139074</link>
		<dc:creator>mwhyte72</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 11:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139074</guid>
		<description>I love Joe and respect his talents as a player and President but really, where was that anger last year?  Last years flameout was more embarrassing than this years.  The problems of last year were less so this year.

Meh.  No more talk, just do something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love Joe and respect his talents as a player and President but really, where was that anger last year?  Last years flameout was more embarrassing than this years.  The problems of last year were less so this year.</p>
<p>Meh.  No more talk, just do something.</p>
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		<title>By: Taco John</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139073</link>
		<dc:creator>Taco John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 11:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139073</guid>
		<description>@JackDutch:
Sure, lots of GMs are going to call with silly deals. And Joe will say "Thanks, but no thanks." Joe isn't desperate to blow up the lineup, and he won't do it unless he gets something that approaches equal value. I don't know what Joe will say, but if he brings the same group back, especially if he brings it back with Michael Curry in charge, he'll send a message, probably by a mandate to Curry, who will likely listen, to cut the starters down to something like 30 minutes a game max.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@JackDutch:<br />
Sure, lots of GMs are going to call with silly deals. And Joe will say &#8220;Thanks, but no thanks.&#8221; Joe isn&#8217;t desperate to blow up the lineup, and he won&#8217;t do it unless he gets something that approaches equal value. I don&#8217;t know what Joe will say, but if he brings the same group back, especially if he brings it back with Michael Curry in charge, he&#8217;ll send a message, probably by a mandate to Curry, who will likely listen, to cut the starters down to something like 30 minutes a game max.</p>
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		<title>By: JackDutch</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139058</link>
		<dc:creator>JackDutch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 05:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139058</guid>
		<description>f-ing sauce cracks me up when he gets ganged up on.

this p.c.... it's a little unsettling. first, it seems like joe's very very raw, both in the presser and on the radio. i know i don't make very rational decisions when i get pissed. i can't imagine joe is immune to such spells. second, i know he's being honest about everyone being accountable and at fault and "everyone's in play", but isn't it counterproductive for getting true value for your assets to say you've given up on this lineup and everyone's available? it's like something i would do in fantasy football when it's week 8 and i'm 2-6. and it usually ends up with me dealing steve smith for mewelde moore and drew bennett.

i wish one of the honorable esteemed journalists would have followed up on dumars reference to "not being on the same page" in regards to flip's performance this year. the sense i'm getting from these interviews is that it had a lot to do with not playing the young guys enough and specifically not playing amir, who he mentioned in the same sentence with stuckey of guys who can do things on our team that no one else can. but someone should have actually asked if that was the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>f-ing sauce cracks me up when he gets ganged up on.</p>
<p>this p.c&#8230;. it&#8217;s a little unsettling. first, it seems like joe&#8217;s very very raw, both in the presser and on the radio. i know i don&#8217;t make very rational decisions when i get pissed. i can&#8217;t imagine joe is immune to such spells. second, i know he&#8217;s being honest about everyone being accountable and at fault and &#8220;everyone&#8217;s in play&#8221;, but isn&#8217;t it counterproductive for getting true value for your assets to say you&#8217;ve given up on this lineup and everyone&#8217;s available? it&#8217;s like something i would do in fantasy football when it&#8217;s week 8 and i&#8217;m 2-6. and it usually ends up with me dealing steve smith for mewelde moore and drew bennett.</p>
<p>i wish one of the honorable esteemed journalists would have followed up on dumars reference to &#8220;not being on the same page&#8221; in regards to flip&#8217;s performance this year. the sense i&#8217;m getting from these interviews is that it had a lot to do with not playing the young guys enough and specifically not playing amir, who he mentioned in the same sentence with stuckey of guys who can do things on our team that no one else can. but someone should have actually asked if that was the case.</p>
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		<title>By: Forty</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139056</link>
		<dc:creator>Forty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 05:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139056</guid>
		<description>i think hiring a young coach who will play whatever rotation joe d wants is somewhat palatable...realistically, isn't the main thing flip could have done play amir more in the playoffs?  he was #1 in adjusted +/- for a reason...  

i refuse to believe that if tayshaun prince just "wanted it more" that he'd have shot better against boston.  i don't disagree that a new voice may be beneficial, but i'm a lot less concerned about that than with playing our best players and getting better players.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think hiring a young coach who will play whatever rotation joe d wants is somewhat palatable&#8230;realistically, isn&#8217;t the main thing flip could have done play amir more in the playoffs?  he was #1 in adjusted +/- for a reason&#8230;  </p>
<p>i refuse to believe that if tayshaun prince just &#8220;wanted it more&#8221; that he&#8217;d have shot better against boston.  i don&#8217;t disagree that a new voice may be beneficial, but i&#8217;m a lot less concerned about that than with playing our best players and getting better players.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Payne</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139054</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Payne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 04:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-03/joe-dumars-speaks/#comment-139054</guid>
		<description>@ramzi:
My point is that Curry was the force behind the players that WEREN'T complacent this last season.  

"motivation…hunger…that element which give a killer instinct…"

I believe Curry was a driving factor in the motivation we DID have, namely from our bench, this last season.  giving him the reins may be directly addressing this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ramzi:<br />
My point is that Curry was the force behind the players that WEREN&#8217;T complacent this last season.  </p>
<p>&#8220;motivation…hunger…that element which give a killer instinct…&#8221;</p>
<p>I believe Curry was a driving factor in the motivation we DID have, namely from our bench, this last season.  giving him the reins may be directly addressing this.</p>
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