After the press conference, Joe Dumars spoke with Stoney and Wojo on 1130 WDFN (mp3) (via Need4Sheed).
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Flip Saunders knew something was wrong when he got a text message with this song from Joe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqxo1SKB0z8
text = voice mail
Joe usually waits a few weeks for the “end-of-season” wrap-up, and he’s seems as upset as I’ve ever seen him. Especially in the WDFN interview, he was really riled. It’s like he’s announcing to the league, “Who do you want? What do you have to give?” From that interview, I’m inferring that Stuckey and Amir are untouchable, but didn’t sell Rasheed out at all. Whenever Stoney or the Killer addressed the Rasheed situation, he reemphasized that “everyone is accountable.”
His reaction really echoes the frustration of a lot of people here.
Sauce is acting like he just won the lottery or something…
until we trade Chauncey Billups for Sebastian Telfair and Ryan Gomes that is
At this point Boney I really hope that this isn’t just a temporary celebration.
I can’t help it. Joe D may respect and like him, Flip may be a nice guy, but I don’t like him. That’s why I’m so happy. This playoffs was frigging tedious, and while Flip may not be a horrible coach, I wouldn’t call him good.
You can find a lot of guys to do X’s and O’s. They may have solid offenses. Here’s to hoping that the next coach is more of a psychologist and philosopher, like Phil Jackson. You almost have to be a shrink to get into the headcases that find their way into this league.
Only if they throw in Michael Doleac, to give us the beef we need down low. Or we could finally get Marko Jaric!
I can’t help it like Boney can’t help not liking Rip. I swore I was going to do other things today, but I feel like I have to celebrate something, this city’s teams keep getting jerked around like they do, it’s pretty much all I can do.
This outburst was Flip’s Fault.
Keep telling yourself that.
I have never seen Joe D so mad. I can’t wait to see what he does next.
So it was Flip’s fault that we telegraphed lazy lob passes throughout the series? He coached that?
“Hey, Sheed… When we’ve got a close game and you have the ball in the back court, just go ahead and lob it to whomever… Like you’re playing 500.”
And how is Michael Curry, who is one year older than Lindsey Hunter, is going to change the culture? Someone explain this to me?
He sure as hell isn’t the guy to improve rebounding.
Well excuse me for being an annoying little asshole, LanierFan and Kevin S., I’ll just blame that on Flip, too.
Ya know Sauce, you’d be less of an asshole if there was a clear cut better alternative to Flip (à la Carlisle to Brown). If you find the Pistons that guy, then all the Pistons fans will allow you to gloat at Flip’s ouster.
You know, LawyerBoy, you’d be less of an asshole if you . . . nah, that’s impossible.
From WDFN’s interview with Joe D
Stoney: What about Micheal Curry makes him a good coaching canidate?
Joe D: Leadership, Respect, Accountability
Those are the 3 things Flip lacks…Leadership for the players, respect from the players, and accountability over the players. Curry is definitely going to be the next Pistons coach.
Wow is this press conference cathartic. This must be the opposite of what it feels like to be a Knicks fan.
Also, sounds like Rasheed is gone. The “if he’s here” comment is pretty ominous.
Does anyone get the feeling like this is Joe Dumars laying his heart out? I get the feeling now that last year, the tough talk about everyone being in play was really from Davidson, not Dumars. Am I way off base here? Like Forty said, this is unreal. Joe might be creating his own “sacred cow” status.
And btw, can we at this point assume that Joe Dumars knows he wouldn’t be a good coach? I mean, at some point, doesn’t he put and keep this team together and say to himself, “Man, stop screwing up my work, I should do this myself.”
The “if he’s here” comment is ominous. I think in like 2002 or 2003, he was asked something about the core, and said the core didn’t include a player over 30. Guys like Cliff Robinson and Michael Curry, starters on a playoff team: gone by October.
if this transaction occurs:
Joe D.: Can Tay play 40mpg in the playoffs and still be relevent in the 3rd or 4th round?
Curry: No
poof, he’s already a better coach than flip
Joe is pissed all right. He knows how to play the GM game thats for sure, but I think he is trying to put the team in a situation where he covers all bases. I really don’t know what he is going to do as he already thinks the team is good.
@Kevin S., re: Michael Curry:
Someone on an earlier thread, and I apologize for not citing whomever that was, mentioned that Curry’s value in Joe’s eyes may be that he was a driving force in the bench’s development this season.
The suggestion here is that Curry lead the development of Detroit’s bench whilst gaining the loyalty of the vets. If so, he could be the ideal 2-3 year coach that transitions the 34-somethings out of the starting lineup and pushes the new Pistons legacy to contention. He has been close enough to Flip Saunders playbook to maintain Flip’s direction, but with a focus on a greater integration of Stuckey, Maxiell and Johnson.
What I’d love in a coach is not someone to shake up a working formula, but update for the future with a keen sense of our recent history. No potential coach has a sense of Detroit’s history like Michael Curry. To maintain this conference-leading legacy, we need that sense of history. Van Gundy, Avery Johnson and others might be too shocking of a change. Michael Curry could maintain the brightest values of our current Pistons squad while pushing our most promising future players to take over.
In short, Curry could take Flip’s playbook and update it for a new Piston’s legacy.
Mike P…the problem is not the playbook…it is motivation…hunger…that element which give a killer instinct…we lack that
we could’ve been in the finals the last two if not three years, but it was that lack of drive that cut us short…what we ended up with was more excuses.
I believe Joe D realizes this, but he doesn’t know where to go…as he mentioned winning in this league isn’t easy so it isn’t always good to be rash about your change of direction.
I think making Mike C. the head coach might be a big mistake without addressing certain players and their contribution to this “turn the switch” miserable mentality.
its either go hard or go home as have the pistons done in the past few years…in the end it is about being in the last playoff round and having a strong chance to be number one.
I love the pistons but i don’t see that leap without a core philosophical change along with a commanding voice that leads with more than X’s and O’s
@ramzi:
My point is that Curry was the force behind the players that WEREN’T complacent this last season.
“motivation…hunger…that element which give a killer instinct…”
I believe Curry was a driving factor in the motivation we DID have, namely from our bench, this last season. giving him the reins may be directly addressing this.
i think hiring a young coach who will play whatever rotation joe d wants is somewhat palatable…realistically, isn’t the main thing flip could have done play amir more in the playoffs? he was #1 in adjusted +/- for a reason…
i refuse to believe that if tayshaun prince just “wanted it more” that he’d have shot better against boston. i don’t disagree that a new voice may be beneficial, but i’m a lot less concerned about that than with playing our best players and getting better players.
f-ing sauce cracks me up when he gets ganged up on.
this p.c…. it’s a little unsettling. first, it seems like joe’s very very raw, both in the presser and on the radio. i know i don’t make very rational decisions when i get pissed. i can’t imagine joe is immune to such spells. second, i know he’s being honest about everyone being accountable and at fault and “everyone’s in play”, but isn’t it counterproductive for getting true value for your assets to say you’ve given up on this lineup and everyone’s available? it’s like something i would do in fantasy football when it’s week 8 and i’m 2-6. and it usually ends up with me dealing steve smith for mewelde moore and drew bennett.
i wish one of the honorable esteemed journalists would have followed up on dumars reference to “not being on the same page” in regards to flip’s performance this year. the sense i’m getting from these interviews is that it had a lot to do with not playing the young guys enough and specifically not playing amir, who he mentioned in the same sentence with stuckey of guys who can do things on our team that no one else can. but someone should have actually asked if that was the case.
@JackDutch:
Sure, lots of GMs are going to call with silly deals. And Joe will say “Thanks, but no thanks.” Joe isn’t desperate to blow up the lineup, and he won’t do it unless he gets something that approaches equal value. I don’t know what Joe will say, but if he brings the same group back, especially if he brings it back with Michael Curry in charge, he’ll send a message, probably by a mandate to Curry, who will likely listen, to cut the starters down to something like 30 minutes a game max.
I love Joe and respect his talents as a player and President but really, where was that anger last year? Last years flameout was more embarrassing than this years. The problems of last year were less so this year.
Meh. No more talk, just do something.
Having had a couple of days of perspective, I kind of agree with mwhyte72: last year was more embarrassing, this year’s Celtics are better than last year’s Cavs. This year’s Celtics have three lock HOFers, and a supporting cast that turned out to be better than people thought. The Pistons don’t have a single player who can start on the All-Star team in a weak ECF and, with the exception of Stuckey most of the time and Maxiell some of the time, had a supporting cast a bit weaker than people thought. Boston looked weakened coming into the Detroit series (hadn’t won a road playoff game, Allen slumping), but they reverted to normal, eventually. Bottom line: they were the better team.
On the other hand, it really is “no excuses” time. After losing to the Spurs in a game 7 in San Antonio in ‘05, the message was “get home court advantage.” So the Pistons won a zillion games in ‘05-’06, but lost to the Heat. The message there was, the starters were tired. Detroit didn’t fix that problem for ‘06-’07, but instead tried to bring back Webber to put them over the top, kind of like ‘Sheed did in ‘04. Webber had a bad playoffs, although so did pretty much everybody else in the finals. So the lesson for this year was “play the bench more.”
We played the bench more, although again, by the end, it was only Stuckey and Maxiell, with a few nice moments for Hunter. Still no backup for Tayshaun.
So again, I’m torn. Something has to happen, but it’s hard to figure out exactly what, and I would hate to see a panicky Suns/Mavs type move. Joe has made some great moves and not-so-great moves in the past. This will be his biggest challenge.
Flip HAD to go. This is one of the best teams in the league, never getting to the finals in 3 years, much less not winning a title, is inexcusable. Unfortunately he didn’t have the clout with the players that a coach desperately needs. I woulda ousted him after that Cavs exit. Watch Flip in the years to come. No title. This is the best team he’ll ever coach.
Personally I’m just as pissed at Billups. Big contract, says he’s the face of the team, his nicknames are “Smooth” and “Mr. Big Shot”, and he was neither. He had alot to prove against Boston and never showed it.
I love all the dudes on our team but Joe knows what has to be done, and already made that clear bouncing Flip and putting a target on the starters. This is good.
This has been a crazy ride for the Pistons. Getting rid of Flip was a hard, but right thing to do. This team is an awesome team. One of the best. Let me put it this way, a parents job is to teach, groom , and motivate their child to excel to higher heights. This will not happen if the parent tries to be a friend to their child, and not raise them. The same could be said about Flip and the Pistons. They lack the hunger, drive and the focus they had in 2004. Joe Dumars sees this and will make the necessary changes that will make this team a threat once again. And believe me Joe will make the right decisions concerning the team. Something must be done and it will be done.
I agree with Skylar. I was pissed this year with the Pistons . They have gotten too laid back and act like they don’t give a damn. We need a coach Who will get up in their assets and tell them If you don’t want to play with all your heart that your ass can be replaced.
@Skylar:
re: Chauncey. Difficult round one matchup with Miller aside, Chauncey was injured for most of the playoffs. I’m not totally excited by Chauncey’s post-season, but I do suggest you cut him some slack.
Taco John, you should read the hot mess that litters most national boards in regard to Pistons trades now that “everyone is on the table.”
I read one that had Lamar Odom for Tayshaun Prince.
It made zero sense, like it makes zero sense now. They’re both point forwards, only one of us hasn’t been running the Tex Winter triangle, and it’s about an even swap. Then it hit me.
All these bajidiots (billions of idiots) write crap about our franchise, but they secretly want our players, for next to nothing, or just part-for-same-part trades. They despise the “Bad Boys,” hate this, that, but really, when it comes down to it, they’d love Rasheed helping their pathetic frigging team to their 1st-ever championship. Why? We do the same goddamn thing here, like Joe said. We praise Rasheed when he pulls a badass game, and we put him on the roasting spit when he turns in a 4 point, 5 foul game.
The real head-turner, for me, it’s the Flip Saunders poll on ESPN. A slight majority thinks Joe Dumars is an idiot for firing Flip, for whatever reason. “Best thing out there,” “treating a nice guy poorly,” or whatever other stupid shit. Then . . .
Down at the bottom, ESPN asked if these people would want Flip to coach THEIR favorite team.
Overwhelming “NO.”
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=3509
7) Would you want Flip Saunders coaching your favorite NBA team?
57.1% No
42.9% Yes
Total Votes: 22,793
Hmm.
I say, eff everyone and everything else. Trust in Joe Dumars until you can’t trust him. Count on Detroit being back in the mix with any kind of roster. Chuckle quietly when ESPN picks Chicago or Boston to win it all next year, whatever their bajidiots want to hear, it’ll be fit to print, believe that. And watch as it doesn’t work out that way. When we succeed, stick it to ‘em. Because they’ll never like “us,” even though they demand we like “them.”
These are my bloody gums, smiling.
Joe is an idiot and should be fired. Why fire a coach who almost beat the champs, they played better than LA
@John M:
Flip was fired because we didn’t win a championship. “Almost” doesn’t count in basketball, unfortunately.