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	<title>Comments on: Coming around on Michael Curry</title>
	<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/</link>
	<description>A Detroit Pistons blog</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2</generator>
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		<title>By: Mike Payne</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139635</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Payne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 00:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139635</guid>
		<description>@QD:
Yes, Maxie did hit two shots-- both were jumpers.  The only big that was taking shots inside was Sheed, which we saw was foolish due to his poor shooting that night.  Max wasn't playing inside, and he only had 1 rebound in 17 mins (if I remember correctly, didn't check the stats), which suggests he wasn't having an on night.

I remember that was the only time in that whole series where I was asking for Amir.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@QD:<br />
Yes, Maxie did hit two shots&#8211; both were jumpers.  The only big that was taking shots inside was Sheed, which we saw was foolish due to his poor shooting that night.  Max wasn&#8217;t playing inside, and he only had 1 rebound in 17 mins (if I remember correctly, didn&#8217;t check the stats), which suggests he wasn&#8217;t having an on night.</p>
<p>I remember that was the only time in that whole series where I was asking for Amir.</p>
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		<title>By: Quick Darshan</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139631</link>
		<dc:creator>Quick Darshan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139631</guid>
		<description>Actually Mike P., I think you are overlooking Jason Maxiell.  He hit two big shots in that quarter (in the paint I might add).

It's ridiculous to say that Flip should have put Amir in (although I agree that he should have been given a shot at the minutes that Ratliff got during the series), but it's more than fair to say that Maxiell should have been playing at the end of that game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually Mike P., I think you are overlooking Jason Maxiell.  He hit two big shots in that quarter (in the paint I might add).</p>
<p>It&#8217;s ridiculous to say that Flip should have put Amir in (although I agree that he should have been given a shot at the minutes that Ratliff got during the series), but it&#8217;s more than fair to say that Maxiell should have been playing at the end of that game.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Payne</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139630</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Payne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139630</guid>
		<description>@Toledo Joe:
"But I hardly think it’s a firing offense to have not played him then."

I don't think anyone is suggesting it was a firing offense, that 4th quarter lineup.  

"You suggest that Amir would have fared better against the Boston big men not named Garnett (was KG not playing in the 4th quater?)"

Detroit showed ZERO energy in that quarter, our only answer was to foul.  Boston shot 14 of 27 free throws in the 4th quarter in that game.  We needed someone to come in and be a spark, help our offense with put-backs and tip-ins and block shots on the other end.  We looked dead, we weren't driving to the paint, we settled for jumpers that were mostly missed.  

Funny enough, we needed Amir on Offense that quarter, more than anything.  Rasheed was our inside man, but none of his post shots were falling.  So instead he settled for threes, and we know how that goes...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Toledo Joe:<br />
&#8220;But I hardly think it’s a firing offense to have not played him then.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone is suggesting it was a firing offense, that 4th quarter lineup.  </p>
<p>&#8220;You suggest that Amir would have fared better against the Boston big men not named Garnett (was KG not playing in the 4th quater?)&#8221;</p>
<p>Detroit showed ZERO energy in that quarter, our only answer was to foul.  Boston shot 14 of 27 free throws in the 4th quarter in that game.  We needed someone to come in and be a spark, help our offense with put-backs and tip-ins and block shots on the other end.  We looked dead, we weren&#8217;t driving to the paint, we settled for jumpers that were mostly missed.  </p>
<p>Funny enough, we needed Amir on Offense that quarter, more than anything.  Rasheed was our inside man, but none of his post shots were falling.  So instead he settled for threes, and we know how that goes&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Toledo Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139629</link>
		<dc:creator>Toledo Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139629</guid>
		<description>Mike P.:

I agree with you re Amir in the Philly and Orlando series(es?). I didn't see game 6 of the Boston series (out of the country on business -- the only playoff game I missed and one of the only games period I missed all year).  So I can't say what I thought or would have thought while watching Detroit blow that 10 point lead -- well, there would have been a lot of expletives, but re strategy, I don't know.  

Still, I come back to the idea that if you see a lead slipping away in an elimination game, even if your all-star starter hasn't played well, you don't go to a rookie bench guy who has seen few meaningful minutes all year and who in the past was dominated by the specific opponent you are facing now.  You suggest that Amir would have fared better against the Boston big men not named Garnett (was KG not playing in the 4th quater?).  I don't know -- those guys are hard to figure:  Perkins and Powe seem to have really good and really mediocre games for no particular reason.

Anyway, Flip followed that conventional wisdom and lost.  We'll never know whether playing Johnson have changed the outcome. But I hardly think it's a firing offense to have not played him then.  At some point, you gotta dance with the ones what brung ya.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike P.:</p>
<p>I agree with you re Amir in the Philly and Orlando series(es?). I didn&#8217;t see game 6 of the Boston series (out of the country on business &#8212; the only playoff game I missed and one of the only games period I missed all year).  So I can&#8217;t say what I thought or would have thought while watching Detroit blow that 10 point lead &#8212; well, there would have been a lot of expletives, but re strategy, I don&#8217;t know.  </p>
<p>Still, I come back to the idea that if you see a lead slipping away in an elimination game, even if your all-star starter hasn&#8217;t played well, you don&#8217;t go to a rookie bench guy who has seen few meaningful minutes all year and who in the past was dominated by the specific opponent you are facing now.  You suggest that Amir would have fared better against the Boston big men not named Garnett (was KG not playing in the 4th quater?).  I don&#8217;t know &#8212; those guys are hard to figure:  Perkins and Powe seem to have really good and really mediocre games for no particular reason.</p>
<p>Anyway, Flip followed that conventional wisdom and lost.  We&#8217;ll never know whether playing Johnson have changed the outcome. But I hardly think it&#8217;s a firing offense to have not played him then.  At some point, you gotta dance with the ones what brung ya.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Payne</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139526</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Payne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139526</guid>
		<description>"However, going into the Orlando series, Maxiell wasn’t the right body to throw at Howard"

That was supposed to read "Amir wasn't the rigth body to throw at Howard"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;However, going into the Orlando series, Maxiell wasn’t the right body to throw at Howard&#8221;</p>
<p>That was supposed to read &#8220;Amir wasn&#8217;t the rigth body to throw at Howard&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Payne</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139525</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Payne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139525</guid>
		<description>@Toledo Joe:
"So he should have used Amir Johnson more in the playoffs? Against Dwight Howard? Against Kevin Garnett in close games? Is that really the time and the matchups you want?"

Amir helped close out the Philly series beautifully:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Ai2jxNJw.p4jAOuIZwE1cbikvLYF?gid=2008050120

However, going into the Orlando series, Maxiell wasn't the right body to throw at Howard (which someone corrected me about here on DBB).  Rasheed, Maxiell, Ratliff and McDyess all match up much better against Howard.

Against Garnett, well we all remember how that turned out in the regular season, when Garnett manhandled Amir.  But when Garnett wasn't on the floor, and when players like Perkins, Powe, Brown and others were giving us problems, Amir could have saved the day.  I remember in game six, just begging for Flip to put Amir in.  There was a point in the 4th quarter of game six where Amir could have begun to turn the tide.  Boston outscored us 29-13 in that quarter, and we needed someone to block shots, put bodies on the floor, grab rebounds on both ends of the floor and get cleanup, muscle baskets.  Meanwhile, Rasheed shoots 2-12 and almost singlehandedly loses the series for us in that quarter.

Herrmann is another story.  He's a mix between a 3 and a 4, he's tall, he's got length, strength, and can be a defensive pest.  So if Tay has matchup problems with bigger, stronger 3's, Herrmann had the skill set to make a difference.  I'm willing to bet that Herrmann could have given problems to Paul Pierce, and could do the same to a player like Lebron.

I realize that if Flip tried either of these and we lost, people would feel like those substitutions lost it.  But in the heat of the moment, these are the things I was screaming at my television.

Hopefully Curry will do what we all hope he has the potential for-- to inspire and command our players and trust our youth a lot more than Flip did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Toledo Joe:<br />
&#8220;So he should have used Amir Johnson more in the playoffs? Against Dwight Howard? Against Kevin Garnett in close games? Is that really the time and the matchups you want?&#8221;</p>
<p>Amir helped close out the Philly series beautifully:<br />
<a href="http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Ai2jxNJw.p4jAOuIZwE1cbikvLYF?gid=2008050120" rel="nofollow">http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Ai2jxNJw.p4jAOuIZwE1cbikvLYF?gid=2008050120</a></p>
<p>However, going into the Orlando series, Maxiell wasn&#8217;t the right body to throw at Howard (which someone corrected me about here on DBB).  Rasheed, Maxiell, Ratliff and McDyess all match up much better against Howard.</p>
<p>Against Garnett, well we all remember how that turned out in the regular season, when Garnett manhandled Amir.  But when Garnett wasn&#8217;t on the floor, and when players like Perkins, Powe, Brown and others were giving us problems, Amir could have saved the day.  I remember in game six, just begging for Flip to put Amir in.  There was a point in the 4th quarter of game six where Amir could have begun to turn the tide.  Boston outscored us 29-13 in that quarter, and we needed someone to block shots, put bodies on the floor, grab rebounds on both ends of the floor and get cleanup, muscle baskets.  Meanwhile, Rasheed shoots 2-12 and almost singlehandedly loses the series for us in that quarter.</p>
<p>Herrmann is another story.  He&#8217;s a mix between a 3 and a 4, he&#8217;s tall, he&#8217;s got length, strength, and can be a defensive pest.  So if Tay has matchup problems with bigger, stronger 3&#8217;s, Herrmann had the skill set to make a difference.  I&#8217;m willing to bet that Herrmann could have given problems to Paul Pierce, and could do the same to a player like Lebron.</p>
<p>I realize that if Flip tried either of these and we lost, people would feel like those substitutions lost it.  But in the heat of the moment, these are the things I was screaming at my television.</p>
<p>Hopefully Curry will do what we all hope he has the potential for&#8211; to inspire and command our players and trust our youth a lot more than Flip did.</p>
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		<title>By: Toledo Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139517</link>
		<dc:creator>Toledo Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139517</guid>
		<description>I agree that Flip was in a tough position -- apparently winning 59 games and getting to the ECF AND using the bench more than Detroit has used its bench since 2004 wasn't enough.  So he should have used Amir Johnson more in the playoffs?  Against Dwight Howard?  Against Kevin Garnett in close games?  Is that really the time and the matchups you want?  I know 'Sheed and the other starters blew a ten-point lead in game 6 against the Celtics, but what would people be saying if that lead --in an elimination game -- had disappeared while Amir Johnson was playing, and not a starter?

I don't think anybody really thought Amir was going to get serious minutes in the playoffs.  After the starters we had Maxiell, more experienced and a better producer, and Ratliff, brought in for his experience and shotblocking.  

The weird thing that happened to our bench during the playoffs is that Flip stopped playing the two guys who had been backup SFs -- Hayes and Hermann -- and instead went to three-guard lineups when Tayshaun was out (oh, and Tayshaun was back to playing 40+ minutes every game).  If Jarvis Hayes had been able to go for his season averages or a little better, I think that would have made more of a difference than playing Amir as the fourth or fifth big man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that Flip was in a tough position &#8212; apparently winning 59 games and getting to the ECF AND using the bench more than Detroit has used its bench since 2004 wasn&#8217;t enough.  So he should have used Amir Johnson more in the playoffs?  Against Dwight Howard?  Against Kevin Garnett in close games?  Is that really the time and the matchups you want?  I know &#8216;Sheed and the other starters blew a ten-point lead in game 6 against the Celtics, but what would people be saying if that lead &#8211;in an elimination game &#8212; had disappeared while Amir Johnson was playing, and not a starter?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think anybody really thought Amir was going to get serious minutes in the playoffs.  After the starters we had Maxiell, more experienced and a better producer, and Ratliff, brought in for his experience and shotblocking.  </p>
<p>The weird thing that happened to our bench during the playoffs is that Flip stopped playing the two guys who had been backup SFs &#8212; Hayes and Hermann &#8212; and instead went to three-guard lineups when Tayshaun was out (oh, and Tayshaun was back to playing 40+ minutes every game).  If Jarvis Hayes had been able to go for his season averages or a little better, I think that would have made more of a difference than playing Amir as the fourth or fifth big man.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139516</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 13:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139516</guid>
		<description>I remember thinking when Flip Saunders was hired as a coach "that's a strange choice, he does not really have the same style as the Pistons".  He did manage to keep the Pistons playing competitively, but they never seemed to be going anywhere.  Perhaps he was just hired as a temporary coach until Joe Dumars found a coach that would fit the team better?  And now Joe D. thinks he has found the coach for our team, so they let Flip go?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember thinking when Flip Saunders was hired as a coach &#8220;that&#8217;s a strange choice, he does not really have the same style as the Pistons&#8221;.  He did manage to keep the Pistons playing competitively, but they never seemed to be going anywhere.  Perhaps he was just hired as a temporary coach until Joe Dumars found a coach that would fit the team better?  And now Joe D. thinks he has found the coach for our team, so they let Flip go?</p>
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		<title>By: Reading is Great! Tuesday’s NBA Rumors, Breaking News, and Blog Links - EmptyTheBench.com</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139510</link>
		<dc:creator>Reading is Great! Tuesday’s NBA Rumors, Breaking News, and Blog Links - EmptyTheBench.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139510</guid>
		<description>[...] 46-year-old TV analyst. - NY Daily News - Ron Artest wants to play for the New York Knicks. Fun! - Detroit Bad Boys - Maybe the hiring of Michael Curry in Detroit isn&#8217;t such a bad idea&#8230; - Stet Sports [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] 46-year-old TV analyst. - NY Daily News - Ron Artest wants to play for the New York Knicks. Fun! - Detroit Bad Boys - Maybe the hiring of Michael Curry in Detroit isn&#8217;t such a bad idea&#8230; - Stet Sports [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: ohad</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139508</link>
		<dc:creator>ohad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139508</guid>
		<description>"Everyone said Lebron was going to be a great NBA player while he was still in high school."
Not a very good example. If you play good ball at a young age you might develope into a good player once older. Since Curry hasn't coached a college/NBDL we don't know anything about his coaching ability. If you're a good manager it doesn't mean you can be a good coach.
I agree with JD, if he was in charge of the zoo crew's improvement maybe he can get the same results with the starting 5</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Everyone said Lebron was going to be a great NBA player while he was still in high school.&#8221;<br />
Not a very good example. If you play good ball at a young age you might develope into a good player once older. Since Curry hasn&#8217;t coached a college/NBDL we don&#8217;t know anything about his coaching ability. If you&#8217;re a good manager it doesn&#8217;t mean you can be a good coach.<br />
I agree with JD, if he was in charge of the zoo crew&#8217;s improvement maybe he can get the same results with the starting 5</p>
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		<title>By: Sauce1977</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139506</link>
		<dc:creator>Sauce1977</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 09:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139506</guid>
		<description>V's right.

Maybe this is a stretch . . . Okur was what Nocioni would have been for us if we were Chicago and actually matched it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>V&#8217;s right.</p>
<p>Maybe this is a stretch . . . Okur was what Nocioni would have been for us if we were Chicago and actually matched it.</p>
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		<title>By: V</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139505</link>
		<dc:creator>V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 06:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139505</guid>
		<description>No way we could have signed Okur. He was a RFA, but Utah offered him $8M/yr, or in other words, overpaid for him. Because of cap restrictions, we could only offer him $5.5M/yr. Remember, we replaced him with Dice for that number, and many felt like that's an upgrade at the time. 

I like Okur's game, but his game is very similar to Sheed's in a lot of respects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No way we could have signed Okur. He was a RFA, but Utah offered him $8M/yr, or in other words, overpaid for him. Because of cap restrictions, we could only offer him $5.5M/yr. Remember, we replaced him with Dice for that number, and many felt like that&#8217;s an upgrade at the time. </p>
<p>I like Okur&#8217;s game, but his game is very similar to Sheed&#8217;s in a lot of respects.</p>
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		<title>By: Birdman</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139502</link>
		<dc:creator>Birdman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139502</guid>
		<description>If it was, everyone would eat Indian food.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it was, everyone would eat Indian food.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin s.</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139500</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin s.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139500</guid>
		<description>"Yes - like a cure for cancer. It remains speculation. As does Curry."

Wouldn't it be sweet if curry were the cure for cancer? Not least of which for Eddy Curry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Yes - like a cure for cancer. It remains speculation. As does Curry.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t it be sweet if curry were the cure for cancer? Not least of which for Eddy Curry.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin s.</title>
		<link>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139499</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin s.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2008-06-09/coming-around-on-michael-curry/#comment-139499</guid>
		<description>"Isiah Thomas 
Buck Williams
Patrick Ewing
Antonio Davis"

Kevin Sawyer walks into the backyard.  Second later, we hear the unmistakable sound of a shotgun blast, muffled only by a human mouth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Isiah Thomas<br />
Buck Williams<br />
Patrick Ewing<br />
Antonio Davis&#8221;</p>
<p>Kevin Sawyer walks into the backyard.  Second later, we hear the unmistakable sound of a shotgun blast, muffled only by a human mouth.</p>
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