… so says DBB reader Ohad, who emailed the following bit of breaking news from Ynet.co.il, complete with a Hebrew to English translation:
Trust me with the translation:
“Khimki Moscow, who will play this year in the Euro Cup (the second league in europe), have managed to put their hands on Argentinian forward Carlos Delfino. Estimates are that he signed a 3 year, 8.5 million euro contract.”
It continues to claim that the team is still interested in signing Jose Garbajosa and that will enable them to give a fight to CSKA Moscow, who are the #1 team and the Euroleague (the first league in Europe) champions.
So much for the would-be reunion in Detroit.
Good for him. That’s around $4.25 million USD/yr, and the chance for Los to be a star on his team. Although I would have liked to have seen him get a good chance in the NBA, I’m glad he’s getting a nice payday in Europe…
And Posey signs with New Orleans. 4 years, $25 million.
Thats some serious money to be dished out by a second-tier Euro league team no matter what the exchange rate is.
1 euro = 1.58 USD, so he’s actually getting paid around $13.5 million USD. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Either way, Delfino is smart for accepting foreign money instead of our toilet paper we call the dollar.
I’m sorry to go off topic, but would you guys consider posting a Save Tiger Stadium link somewhere on your blog? The link is here: http://www.savetigerstadium.org/
I’ve blogged the issue here: http://gautham.typepad.com/spottieottiedopaliscious/2008/07/save-tiger-stad.html
I know many of your readers are also Tigers fans who grew up going to games at Michigan and Trumbull. We only have two weeks to save the field, please help us get the word out.
Woohoo. Perhaps Europe is slowly on its way to challenging Mr. Stern’s neighborhood. I’m anxiously awaiting Sauce’s dance of celebration. Brandon Jennings, Carlos Delfino … things are on the upswing for Euro leagues. Reminds me of the old 90s back-and-forth talent raids in wrestling. That being said, I expect none of you to understand what I mean by that.
Thank God… I got sick to my stomach every time he took the court. Maybe more not-quite-good-enough NBA players will go abroad and spare us from having to watch them miss dunks and wide-open shots like good ol’ Carlos used to do in Detroit.
“And Posey signs with New Orleans. 4 years, $25 million.”
Yeah, but that’s only like $15 million Euro.
Thank God. That means he isn’t coming back here. That regression not progression.
Ok, was it just me or did Delfino not look like he used to wear black eye liner like the Rock stars do??? I’m just sayin. He was quite a perrrrrty fellow. And I don’t mean that as a compliment either. He’ll have fun in Europe though.
HOOPSWORLD is reporting that it might be a possibility the Pistons start talks with Chicago for Luol Deng. Tayshaun was the name being mentioned in exchange. Nice.
Sorry, here’s the link.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9502
UTEP2STEP: I’m confused. I know that Deng has better numbers than Tay across the board (I’m reticent to call them “significantly” better), but he had 2 minor injuries this season that caused him to miss 19 games. That’s a lot of games, and 2 minor injuries in the same season is either shitty protection of ones’ body in game and in preparation or it’s a case of bad luck (I’m going with the former). He also tore a ligament in his wrist during his rookie season and missed the last ten regular season games and all 6 playoff games (the Bulls went up 2-0 then lost 4 straight in their first round series that year, losing Games 5 and 6 by a total 5 points).
Don’t get me wrong, I think Deng is better than Tay, but I can’t exactly feel at ease with this move when Tay hasn’t missed an NBA game since the time I was still a virgin (I thought it was best if I waited until I could vote, okay!). Maybe I’m mistaken, but what about this doesn’t scream of “no significant impact” to our team in terms of upgrading skill? We’re also ripping the seams of the team’s chemistry with this move for LUOL DENG. Who is Rip going to throw alley-oops to now? We’d better get at least a future first rounder within two years of this deal or I’m utterly baffled at this rumor.
That being said, I’m going to exhibit some bias against this “Mr. Bill Ingram”’s credentials when he simply assumes the Clippers are out of the running for Iguodala. They just got Camby for almost (or possibly) literally nothing and they still have a roster costing about 7.5 million dollars less than ours is right now (without considering any contracts to our draft picks or free agents). Methinks they want to win and methinks they ain’t afraid to pay for it, especially if it means spiting the 76ers.
Anybody have thoughts on the continued McGrady rumors or the rumor out of Oakland that we’re offering Billups for Biendrins?
I don’t really mind either trade. As I’ve said before, I think the McGrady deal is probably the best “superstar” deal we can realistically make. I like Biendrins, but not at the price of Billups. While I think that Billups is probably the worst offender when it comes to the “flip the switch” mentality, I don’t see how you trade a top tier point guard and not have a significant drop off.
I don’t see a deal out there right now that makes us a better team. I have a hard time seeing a major deal going down and think we’re probably bringing the same crew back and waiting until the deadline to see what’s out there.
Who knows what the Clips are gonna do but in response to the Tay rumor, I’d do it…..twice…yesterday. Deng is a more capable scorer, younger with more upside. I’m on the very small bandwagon that believes Tayshaun is an overrated defender who’s reputaion rests on some highlight reel (incredible) blocks. The guy gets punished by meaty 3’s. Not that he’s a terrible defender, just not the all-world, super stopper he gets credit for. As far as chemistry goes, that got thrown out the window when we walked off the court, AT HOME,vs Boston. Changes!!!!! Ahh, we all forget so quickly, times heals all wounds they say…but in this case it shouldn’t. Time for a shake-up.
LB, -1 for too much information. We’re all friends here, but dude, if you kept it in your pants until college that might be something to keep quiet about. Not because it wasn’t the right choice for you, but because Boney is probably going to seriously make fun of you and make us all a little uncomfortable.
Yeah, you might have wanted to hold on to that nug of info for a true hot-button, panic moment, not a rumored Tay/Luol Deng trade.
I guess we shouldn’t really take this rumor seriously until McCoskey writes an article about how it’s nonsense anyway. I truly believe McCoskey is really just the Pistons director of PR disguised in some sort of high-tech, meat suit to make him appear as a rotund, mustachioed, beat writer.
UTEP2STEP, Other Matt: I believe that if you can’t laugh at yourself, you’re in for a long, miserable life. I thought it was kind of a funny remark to draw attention to the point that Tayshaun’s game played stats read “82″ for the last 5 seasons, which is so important to note. Sorry if it didn’t go over as well as I had intended.
UTEP2STEP: Don’t disagree for a moment with your evaluation of Tay. Put me on your bandwagon for simply that evaluation, but vis-a-vis Deng, Tay has never missed a game, let alone a game due to injury in the five seasons since he got playing time. Deng has missed 40 regular season games (plus 6 post-season) in 4 seasons due to these four injuries (in chronological order from earliest): sprained ankle, torn ligament in wrist, left Achilles’ tendinitis, recurring left Achilles’ tendinitis. You really wanna sacrifice Tayshaun’s invaluable Iron-Man status (at the position where I think most/all DBB would agree that we’re the thinnest) for a guy with that track record (Arnie Kander not withstanding)? I don’t. No way.
Deng was part of that weird vortex o’ death in Chicago last season. Virtually all of their players were in poor game shape for whatever reason. Luol Deng would be a very nice piece for us, and I think there is room to revert to his play two yeard ago, if not a notch above that.
I like Tay more than Deng. A better defender and glue guy, even if Deng is more athletic and a better scorer. Deng isn’t the answer, I’d rather keep the Palace Prince.
I do want the T-Mac deal to happen, however. This team doesn’t have the desire anymore, and bringing in a hungry star could push the ‘Stons over the hump.
Billups is an excellent PG, but I feel that he could care less about winning another chip, same with Sheed. It seems to me like it wold be a nice bonus for them, but not their main concern. They do want to win, but they no longer have anything to prove. T-Mac does, and he is talented enough to elevate this team beyond the Celts, who will not repeat. (Posey was a HUGE part of that team, he hit as many clutch threes as Pierce and Allen combined). Bring T-Mac to the D!
kevin: His play is great when he’s healthy (though I’m iffy on a healthy Deng over a healthy Tay w/Pistons chemistry comparison anyway). I don’t think Chicago sucking or anything else has thing to do with the fact that the guy has had 4 injuries over 2 different seasons of a 4-year career three years apart that have caused him to miss about 20 games in each of those two seasons. He missed 19 games last year for left Achilles’ tendinitis, which occurred twice over this past season (ie: that’s chronic of the non-marijuana kind). I’m not doctor, but I don’t see this guy doing a lot of 80+ game seasons in his career. I think most Pistons would beat his ass if he missed 20 games on them with that crap.
Bringing in Deng for Tay is completely balls-to-the-wall crazy, IMO. I’m not saying that such a trade is statistically stupid, it just wouldn’t make either team any better. They’re the same damn player!
I’m a big Deng fan, always have been. When he’s healthy (and save for one season, he’s always healthy), he’s unreal. I remember watching his work-out tapes last summer, he was prepping for one hell of a contract year. I had him pegged as an all star (and failed miserably on that prediction).
Funny enough, I have to agree with one DBB reader here whom I normally don’t agree with, Boney. I do agree that Rip’s performance may inhibit a larger impact by Tay. Bring in Deng, I think the same may happen. In Chicago, Deng has been in a position to be a first, even second option. In Detroit, he’d be relegated to a 3rd option at best…
Deng for Tay is like trading, well, I’m having a hard time coming up with a metaphor for how similar their style is. Point being, this trade idea isn’t bad, its just balls-to-the-wall crazy.
MP: Two seasons, buddy. Two seasons, 3 different injuries and a 4th sabbatical spending time tending to a re-aggravation of a previous injury.
Wow, I could have lived without seeing LB write about losing his virginity.
But seriously, I do agree with LB that this would not be a good trade. I don’t think that they’re the same player (Deng hardly takes any 3 pointers, for example), but they’re pretty similar. There’s no compelling reason to do this trade, and I think that Joe D. will want a compelling reason to do any trade.
Deng has a much more effective offensive game, and is pretty low on the injury risk meter, which isn’t to say he doesn’t register.
I’m not hellbent on this trade, but I like it better than any of the other proposals (2 for T-mac of Josh Smith, Chauncey for Biedrins) that are floating out there.
I don’t like to see a Beidrins/CB swap either and I agree that CB has the turn on the switch mentality that filters to everyone else since he’s the PG. But I also think the NBA is going towards a more “quick” PG, drive & dish mentality. With the defense rule changes a while back, it’s nearly impossible to keep anyone in front of you if your a PG. People keep saying Billups size and can post up smaller guards which is true. But it’s not like CB does it on a consistent basis, he’d rather jack 3’s up. Look at the couple of games in the series vs. boston when Perkins got it going or earlier in the season when Big Baby.. the bulk were from rebounds and having other D-help on penetration.
I’ve watched a couple of summer league games and one on webcast. Just one question: Why the hell is Samb jacking up 15 footers when he’s 7′ 1″ and nearly the biggest player in the summer league? I want this guy on the blocks yesterday, today and tomorrow. Once he’s got a consistent low post move(s), then work on your 15 footer. Besides, 15 feet away, how the hell does he rebound? Playing on the blocks eating people up and gaining confidence is what I want him doing.
In other news. The Pistons loss another chance to get a backup in James Posey. Where was Joe D when this deal was going? Was he asleep at the wheel again?
Wow - Mavs are going after Artest. Kidd, Artest, Dirk, and Diop would be a pretty strong lineup, especially if it doesn’t cost them Howard.
James Posey is like an Hummer… Too big, overpriced, and destined to break down before your done making the payments.
“People keep saying Billups size and can post up smaller guards which is true. But it’s not like CB does it on a consistent basis, he’d rather jack 3’s up.”
“Posting up” is a bit of a misnomer. Chauncey uses his size to draw fouls on smaller guards, who otherwise give up an easy chipshot. It’s not like you want your point guard shooting turnaround fadeaways.
As for the contention that he would rather jack up threes, among the top ten PGs in the NBA who shoot better than 33% from the three point line (in other words, those who have a three point shot in their arsenal) Billups ranked 4th in the ration of FTA to 3PA.
Deron Williams was number one and Paul was number two. The Calderon/Ford tandem (I combined them into one) was number three. All of those players are much younger, and none are even close to being available.
Deng gets points for being my friend’s cousin and hooking me up with great seats when they played the Lakers. But, I can’t see him being an upgrade over Tay.
MarkButter, I’m okay with Samb shooting jumpers (as long as they’re good shots of course). I don’t think he’ll ever have the bulk to be a low-post banger. So if he can hit fadeaways, jumpers, get putbacks, and throw in an occasional hook shot, it’s all icing.
Deng had a better statistical season than Prince, and that was on an off-year where everyone on the Bulls was woeful on offense. Looking ahead, even if he could just replicate his season from two years ago, he’d be an upgrade. He has All-Star potential, and he doesn’t disappear on offense like Prince tends to. Defensively, he obviously doesn’t have Prince’s length, but from what I’ve seen, he handles bulkier SFs better. He’s also a better rebounder.
If they’re actually considering this, I wouldn’t be agaisnt it. There’s a lot to say for what Prince adds as a glue guy, but I think Deng would be an upgrade. As far as I know, none of his injuries have been really debilitating, and there’s the Kander factor anyway.
Also, Posey isn’t worth that much, especially since the deal goes until he’s in his mid 30s. I hope NO doesn’t think he’s the answer, since they still have a hole at SG, and they need some better depth in general. He’ll be helpful for the next two or so years, but he’s going to be deadweight afterwards.
If Deng is an upgrade over Prince, he isn’t much of an upgrade. Luol has done plenty of “disappearing” too, but we often discount the guy we see every day and overrate the guy we only see in highlights.
Speaking of overrated, I’m with Kevin about Posey. He’s another nice role player cashing in on championship buzz, but at that salary people will expect a little more than he can deliver. He’ll be considered a cap slug within 2 seasons.
Curse you, KW!
Prince for Deng is crazy talk. I’ll be pissed if that happens.
Prince has done everything right as a Piston and he’s the youngest of the starters. Deng is a nice player and I like his rebounding but I’ll be stunned if Joe Dumars thinks the solution is simply swapping SFs with Chicago. It’s kind of hard to fault Prince for not being more aggressive when the team has preached to him since day one to be a complimentary player. If they are disappointed in Prince’s offense then move some of the other offensive minded players and surround HIM with complimentary players. Deng for a SG or PF I can see but the team is already short depth at SF.
Swapping Deng for Prince isn’t the magic bullet, but I think it’s an improvement, especially long-term. Deng is 23, Prince is 28. I really thought Prince might make the jump to become more of a force, but he hasn’t and he’s at the age where what you see is pretty much what you get. Deng, on the other hand, knows what it’s like to be a team’s first or second option, and what he gives up on defense (which isn’t as much as Prince’s rep suggests it is) he makes up on offense, in my eyes.
Kevin S: I agree “posting up” might be a misnomer, but I don’t recall alot plays where CB posted up on a consistent basis. He did it here and there, but he should have been doing it all game long against Ronda, er, Rondo.
I also think because of the core and Rip, he doesn’t get as many opportunities as some others but against many PGs he should be posting up all day long. Given his size advantage against many, it shuold be what we said in HS:
La Tee Da
Loop de Loop
take Chauncey’s guy to the hoop
@Mike Payne:
“Bringing in Deng for Tay is completely balls-to-the-wall crazy, IMO. I’m not saying that such a trade is statistically stupid, it just wouldn’t make either team any better. They’re the same damn player!”
1. Don’t drink and type.
2. You might want to take a step back and review the situation, especially in light of the points shown in white above.
—
I’ve never addressed myself on DBB before. Feels kind of funny… Anyway, your points Matt, regarding age and Tay’s missing breakout have steered me back to take another look.
I just compared each player’s 82games.com stats, which on the team level suggest that Prince is superior. On the player stats, they’re quite similar, with Deng as a better rebounder. Reading the stats didn’t help me change my opinion from above.
But say they are the same player. Say they are both Tayshaun Prince. I’d trade Tayshaun Prince at 28 for Tayshaun Prince at 23 in a heartbeat. As long as it’ll give him a new window from which to hit that breakout we’ve been waiting for from Tay…
LB, I was trying to be funny, trying to bust your balls a little. We’re all friends here, it’s all in good fun.
As for the Deng/Prince trade, I don’t really get it. If you’re going to trade Prince for a younger player, it should be for Josh Smith. He makes us different in a better way. Deng makes basically the same except with more offense coming from the 3, which hasn’t been our problem. A trade for Deng seems like settling, and Joe D isn’t going to settle.
Correction: Deng makes us basically the same means that I still think that he’s the 3rd option on offense. I do think there’s some legitimacy to the theory that Rip’s game has an effect on Tay’s offense. It’s pretty clear that option #1 is Rip running around screens, option 2 is Chauncey initiating from up top, option 3 is either Prince isolating his man or Sheed isolating his man. I don’t know how Deng fits in with us offensively. Maybe somebody can educate me, I haven’t watched the Bulls play a whole lot.
I’m a huge Prince fan and I’m not seeing this trade but because people I respect think it’s a decent idea let me throw some ideas out there about Prince’s game for discussion.
- does the ball get stuck with Prince on offense? Tay took 27% of his shots with 21+ seconds on the clock at only 37% eFG% where Rip and Chauncey both shot from 16-17% of their shots at 21+ seconds on the clock at a much better percentage. Does that mean Tay isn’t clutch and doesn’t move the ball well or that Rip and Chauncey don’t run hard cuts through 24 seconds of the shot clock leaving Tayshaun with a lot of tough shots?
- Deng only took 9% of his shots with 21+ seconds on the clock. Is that a good thing where Rip and Chauncey and friends will be taking more high percentage shots because Tay isn’t clutch or are the some Pistons secretly selfish and don’t want to hurt their FG% and the end of the 24 second shot clock will resemble a game of hot potato?
- Is Deng that much better of a rebounder than Prince? Or does that have to do with pace and more available missed shots? Prince played 7% of the Pistons minutes at PF last year and outplayed his opposing PF by A LOT according to 82games. The rebounding trouble on the Pistons came from ‘Sheed and Rip IMHO.
- Prince had career bests in rebound %, defensive rebound %, turnover %, and assist %. Is he really done improving?
I’m REALLY not seeing this Deng deal. I think Prince covers for a lot of mistakes on this team. I like Deng as a player and wouldn’t mind seeing him on the Pistons but that would mean playing some smallball with Prince and Deng on the court together.
Here’s the boxscore from our summer league game today:
http://www.nba.com/summerleague2008/games/boxscore.jsp?gameId=1520800030
Another DNP for Stuckey — anybody know whether this is just the team being uber-cautious, or is there something to his injury?
Amir had a game-high 9 boards, but Afflalo shot just 1-13 from the field. Bynum was our leading scorer, shooting 8 for 11.
I won’t comment on LB’s “decision” to keep his virginity. I’ll put that word in quotes, take it for what you will.
MP,
I’m happy to see you finally come around.
Also to add to this Deng “rumor”, adding Deng and keeping “Rip” turns us into the best mid-range jump shooting team EVAR!!!!!!1!!
I think we should trade Amir Johnson and everyone else who underperforms in the Summer League games for Samuel Dalembert
let’s remember, the Bulls at one point had the worst shooting percentage in the league last season (if not the entire season, I’m too lazy to look up the actual stat).. Deng’s rebounding numbers are inflated because of that.
Deng is a solid prospect, nothing I’d break the bank for. Maybe after we acquire Thaddeus Young from Philly, we can flip him and Willie Green for Deng
@J:
The commentators said that Stuckey had a family emergency for this game.
After reading and thinking:
Adding Deng to the team in place of Tay removes the rock that keeps Rip and Sheed in check. Deng is not going to come in and keep the crew together when the referees “wrong” us.
I think Deng would be a great addition, and of course we’d have to give up Tay but I just don’t think unless there is another move pending, that this is going to happen.
Del Negro can pray all he wants, I doubt that Paxson is going to go for another piece of the best starting 5 from 2004. Deng is a good mid range scorer, he does not create his own shot, he is limited in the post against guys his size and if we think LeBron and Pierce blow by Tay I can only imagine what happens when Deng and his sore achilles get out there.
Unless Joe D thinks Deng is the piece to build the team around, then I don’t think this is the move to make. LB is correct, Deng isn’t exactly a picture of health out there. Perhaps it’s a part of being in a bad situation last season and in his 1st 2 seasons, but when he puts it together he’s a 19 ppg SF.
Of course, Detroit doesn’t run the same drive and kick offense that CHI so expecting much more than what Tay brings on a nightly basis (unless Rip is moved) is pointless.
There’s no way we get future 1st round picks from CHI and Deng for Tay, otherwise BlogABull’s members are going to burn down the United Center
OtherMatt: Mis-communication. I would not have made the joke if I wasn’t prepared for a reaction, I’d just hate to think I truly offended or disgusted people. I, for one, am not hurt by anything anyone says in response to it.
Back to Deng v. Prince … So NONE of you are concerned that Deng has missed 40 regular season games in 4 years and Tayshaun hasn’t missed one in five? Really, that matters to none of you (even the ones against the swap)? I’m not one to get all chesty about my opinion, but forget Deng v. Prince on gameplay merits for a second, the disparity in relative health in this instance makes a difference. To ignore it, is plain stupid. Tayshaun is Iron-Man. Deng is a lovely plate of china.
Correction: *I’m not one to get all chesty about my opinion without getting provoked
That’s how that statement should read.
LB, it’s all good.
I don’t even think that you need to consider Deng’s supposed injury prone-ness, or whatever you want to call it. I don’t think that trade makes us significantly better. If you want to trade Prince, the correct move is to package him with a young’n and send the 2 of them to Atlanta for Josh Smith. Deng isn’t the best deal you can make, and in all likelihood, it’s a lateral move. He doesn’t significantly change the way this team plays, and he doesn’t improve the offense because he’s not going to be the first or second option.
I haven’t seen Deng play very much, so I don’t know a lot about his individual or team defense. It’s also alarming to me that he had a putrid year when playing for a big money extension.
He also played for a team that was one of the worst in the NBA, Other Matt.
He likely shut it down himself knowing that no matter what he provided, it wouldn’t matter anyway. He had proved his value last year by averaging 18.8 a night while playing all 82 games.
He also played for a team taht was one of the worst in the NBA
Suck it, Chicago.
“I also think because of the core and Rip, he doesn’t get as many opportunities as some others but against many PGs he should be posting up all day long. Given his size advantage against many, it shuold be what we said in HS:”
But he DOES take it to the hoop. He consistently ranks among the top five in true shooting percentage (and some of his outputs in this regard rank among the best in NBA history). Accusing him of poor shot selection is like accusing Dennis Rodman of poor rebounding.
“As for the Deng/Prince trade, I don’t really get it. If you’re going to trade Prince for a younger player, it should be for Josh Smith. ”
THIS IS NOT AN OPTION!!!!!
I’m happy to eat crow on this one, but seriously… If Joe D. thinks we must make a trade, and this is available, I would hope he takes it, and that this will sate his desire to shake the roster.
Deng has averaged about 75 games per year, and 75 games of Deng and 7 games of whomever is marginally better than 82 games of Prince. There is also a genuine possibility that Deng greatly exceeds his projections.
@Other Matt:
“I haven’t seen Deng play very much”
Up until the last season, I spent 8 years living in downtown Chicago. Living on a bootstrap entrepreneurs income for the later years (see: ramen, lots and lots of ramen), I couldn’t justify paying for league pass. I had Comcast Sports Net, which meant I could watch every single Bulls game I could possibly want. Since I couldn’t see my Pistons when they weren’t nationally televised, I watched the Bulls…
…and my soul hurt so bad with every minute.
But I did get to see Deng play. I got to see Deng play A LOT. I drafted him on my fantasy team and watched his every move throughout his best season. 52% shooting, 19 ppg and 7 rpg = unreal. The kid’s shot is similar to McDyess, with nearly guaranteed midrange shots when he’s on. With Deng, he’s ALWAYS on (when he’s healthy). Take a big bite out of this, and when you look at it, ask yourself if Tay has ever put up numbers like this:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3824/gamelog;_ylt=ArnKML7qm0odRNqT2b_hpJ2kvLYF?year=2006
As for the injury issues, I really don’t feel that Deng is a big problem. McGrady is a big problem. Having watched Deng get knocked around, I really feel that these injuries are an anomaly. We’ll find out more about that though…
I don’t feel that Deng is a huge upgrade over Tay. The move could be significant, should Curry decide to move the ball through the SF more. I don’t know if Deng would be a step up defensively against player like lebron and pierce, but I can say this, which is the crux of my turnaround toward Deng:
You will not see Deng disappear offensively when he has a big defensive assignment.
@Kevin S.:
Let me preface this by saying that I agree with you. I was scratching my head after reading your comment, only because the concept of “eating crow” reached a critical mass in my head. I’ve heard it so many times, yet I do not know its origin (heads to entomology website after posting this comment).
Just for fun, I googled “crow recipe”. Should anyone here ever have to eat crow, it sounds rather tasty!:
http://www.bertc.com/three_crows.htm
Where do I begin today. Let me start with, I thank God I’m not Joe D. in terms of trying to change this team around. They are so damn perplexing man. Lets break down the Big-4.
Chauncey: Old school PG, manages the game like a quarterback does in football. About 7 assists and minumal turnovers. Good shooting percentage, good 3 pt shooter, great FT%. Doesn’t get frazzled much and is always calm under pressure. Negative: I think he is the Capt. of the “flip the switch” club and no one is changing my perception of that (throw out all the stats you want, I don’t give a damn). I think the chip on his shoulder is definitely gone and I don’t see that desire to win or die trying anymore. CB doesn’t seem to have the speed to consistently drive & dish (ala C-Paul, D-williams?, Steve Nash). His comments of always feeling like we’re the better team no matter how many times we lose gets under my skin big time. When another boxer (or various boxers over a 3-4 yr playoff stretch) keep knocking your ass out, you lose the right to keep calling yourself the baddest man on the planet. Get a grip CB. Maybe talent wise its true, but you lose the right to keep calling yourself the best team when you aren’t getting the job done and you lose in the playoffs 4 years in a row now. WTF? Maybe I’m the crazy one. He’s the team Capt. and I think his casual ass approach permeates through the rest of the team. I’m not saying he has to be super emotional like Garnette. But I need your play to tell me your still hungry as hell. Tay isn’t emotional but his play(especially his D) said a lot against Philly and Orlando. Chauncey’s body language and attitude seems to say “its all good, we’ll get ‘em next time”. When the fuck is next time Chauncey? I want to see a motherfucker hurting after a loss man. (See Dice). I think Ben brough accountability to the team and when he saw his fellow soldiers weren’t hungry-as-hell anymore by the end of 2006, he was done. I believe he casually blamed Flip so he wouldn’t have to call out his ‘friends’. Ok, I’ll have to break these up so its not one super duper long post.
Rip: Effecient as hell and very consistent. It isn’t often Rip totally disappears. Everyone has an off shooting nights here or there. 99% of the time he will give you between 16-24 pts and end up averaging 20. Doesn’t have to constantly have the ball in his hands (he’s the anti-Iverson). Great shooting percentage from field, 3 pt line, and FT. I think he’s a scrappy defender. He tries hard from what I see and makes the man work hard for his. Tireless worker who never runs out of gas man. Deadly mid-range game and has tried to add driving the lane to his arsenal, although its not his strong suit as far as taking guys off the dribble. Super efficient scorer. Even puts up decent assist numbers at times, although I could do with less turnovers. Durable as hell and rarely misses a lot of games. Negative: He can’t create his own shot and relies on his point guard to deliver perfectly and Bigs to set perfect screens (often multiple screens). It takes a team effort for him to score. I would definitely say he is a shooter but not a natural ’scorer’. Meaning if his shot if off (or all the other moving parts to get him his shot aren’t occuring perfectly) I don’t see the ability to score in other ways: drive and draw fouls, get scrappy on the boards and get the occasional easy put back, get out on the break for easy transition baskets, run the pick & roll or give & go for easy hoops,just flat out raise over your man and drop a J in his face,etc. Even though he’s 6′7″ he seems to play small due to his thin frame. Between him & Tay both being ‘Thin Men’ it causes a liability against meaty 2’s & 3’s. I honestly don’t understand why since he is the anti-Iverson, but for some reason his offensive game does not seem to coincide with Tay’s. When he’s around Tay just gets leftovers, not the big piece of chicken.
Tay: He’s the most perplexing of all. Good defender, although I don’t think he consistently lives up to his reputation. At times he’s the MVP with his defense. Played great against Iggy and Terkgolu. But I don’t see the defensive beast I saw against Kobe in 2004 Finals. Very very multi-talented. The guy can consistently post up and score, nice from 3 (don’t know his % but he can make the 3, you get the point) and everything in between. Good at filling on the fast break. Does everything well. Jack of all trades and the master of none. Love his attitude. True team player who never complains. Seems to be a good floor general. Doesn’t get in guy’s grill but I often see him telling guys where they should have been or where to be next time. Communicates on the floor very well. He’s the glue guy man. He does all the small things and is a great asset to your point guard because he can help facilitate or handle the ball when needed. Love his length. He’s the employee you take for granted when he’s there and you miss the hell out of him when he goes on vacation. The boy never missages a damn game man. Negative: If this boy had a mean streak or was more assertive/aggressive he would be a top 10 NBA talent because he’s good in soooo many areas. I’ll cut him some slack. We have groomed him and asked him to be a complimentary player, not a focal point. He teases you with all that talent and variety of skills but you don’t get to consistently see all of his talents being maximized most of the time. Flashes of brilliance in each area from game to game but rarely puts in all together and has that dominating game across the board you know. We all know his thin frame kills us against meaty 3’s man. He has worn down the last 3 years and wel al know his offense seems to COMPLETELY disappear when he has a tough defensive assignment. I’d love to see him occasionally throw 30 back in Lebron or Pierce’s face man. He’s the quient-essential (spelling) reliable Honda. But at times you wish you had a damn Mustang or Corvette just to burn someone at the red light. There seems to be so much more possible but I don’t think we’lll ever get to see it with him being the 4th option all the time. He or someone has to go. He can’t continue to grow or maximize his talents on this squad. I’m somewhat disappointed that over his career the guy hasn’t put on 2 lbs. I’m not trying to turn him into Lebron or Karl Malone (he doesn’t have that type of frame). I just wonder if there has been any effort into getting any stronger. I hope the exposer to Team USA does him well the way it did Joe Johnson. He came back to Atlanta a different man after playing with Team USA. I hope it boosts Tay’s confidence. I just think we’ve seen all we’ll get out of Tay at this point and definitely on this squad. But can you afford to trade your glue guy who’s the ultimate team player. Sometimes I want him to go but I wonder if we truly understand and appreciate all the little things he does and brings to the table that don’t hit the stat sheet.
Mr. Wallace: I don’t know what to say about Sheed man. We all know he’s a top 5 NBA talent. But talent and actual production are two different things. He’s so damn multi-skilled, like Tay. He’s smart ass hell and if he was smaller would probably be a great point guard as far as basketball smarts and understanding of the game. He can score from anywhere on the court (even 75 feet away
). He’s a good team defender. He’s the glue guy as far as the Bigs go. Can defend just about anybody man and he’e a tough match-up for the best of them, when he’s focused. He brings that D and the inside-out game. (not saying he plays it effectively always). He CAN give you whatever you need from your PF/C or star player. (Obviously I’m not saying he always does, I said he CAN if he desired but he doesn’t). His talent is just the Ultimate tease man.
Negatives: Ok, I’ll state the obvious. His wack ass undependable attitude. At times he’s all over the place like a bratty 5 year old who can’t have his way. He and Rip let the refs take them wayyyyyy out of their game at times. He needs to bang down-low but wants to impersonate Reggie Miller at the 3 pt line. I think Dirk winning the 3 pt contest 2 years ago really fucked with Sheed’s head man. At times you don’t get the max effort you would like to see. I would rather see 20-25 mins of Sheed playing balls-to-the-wall instead of 33 mins and him giving 1/2 effort 50% of the time. I think Sheed has turned into a quitter honestly. Like someone said here earlier, he reminds me of Mike Tyson bitting Holyfield’s ear to get disqualified cause he was getting his ass kicked and wanted out but didn’t want to flat out quit. This year and last he didn’t show up when our asses were on the line and it was elimination time. I just can’t overlook that shit. You don’t want Sheed in your fox-hole man and your life depends on him being ON and having your back at all times. Sheed’s not a leader. I didn’t say he wasn’t a teacher and good teammate. I said he’s not a LEADER. I hate Sheed at the 5. He’s a wonderful 4 but doesn’t have the balls, desire, maybe even guts to play the 5. He’s a perfect Good Cop Bad Cop or Bonnie & Clyde kind of guy. Meaning, find a serviceable (hopefully good) 5 who can be the enforcer and let Sheed get in the occasional punch while the Bad Guy is on the grown. He and Ben worked perfectly cause Big Ben was the Bad Cop and Sheed was a hell of a compliment/partner. But he can’t be your enforce down low. Its just not him. It would help if our guards didn’t get blown by at will. I personally question Sheed’s heart at this point. I think we are asking him to be something he’s not: A Leader, a 5 who’s the primary enforcer down low, a guy who plays consistently in the post. Let Sheed be Sheed but he probably needs to do it somewhere else at this point. Well MAYBE. But if he gets moved, you need someone back with similar skills because we are bare at the 5 man. I don’t know enough about Beadris to say whether I like the trade or not. If he can do the low post grunt work and let Sheed be the finesse guy, then I’m down. We just have to know it will be hard to expect Sheed to deliver down low when we need it most with our asses on the line. But if Beadris isn’t a strong low post guy and Sheed is unreliable, we need a 3 who can score at will (has some post up skills also). Sheed is the Co-Captain, with Chauncey, of the flip-the-switch club and no one is changing my perception of that either. I think Sheed is workable, but we have to know he’s the finesse guy, not the grunt down low 5 we have needed him to be. He may get in line with CB out of the way and we get a hungry star through trade. I’d love to see someone else come in with Dice’s “I must win a championship or die” attitude. I think that would be good for our environment. Just reduce Sheed to being a private again and stop expecting him to be a Seargeant. Give me about 24 mins of good Sheed and if Max can take another step forward this year and Dice remainds dependable (health wise) then I’m good with that.
@Other Matt
“As for the Deng/Prince trade, I don’t really get it. If you’re going to trade Prince for a younger player, it should be for Josh Smith.”
What makes you think the Hawks would have any interest at all in this? Sure I’d rather Smith than Deng, but I’d also rather Deng than Prince, and that’s what we’re debating.
@Other Matt
“It’s also alarming to me that he had a putrid year when playing for a big money extension.”
Putrid year huh?.. PER isn’t the be-all and end-all, but Deng’s PER last season was better than any Prince has ever had.
I’d trade Prince for Deng in a second. A season ago the Bulls would’ve laughed at this trade. Deng’s stock is down because of a failure to duplicate his amazing season in ‘06/’07 as a mostly 21 year old. Deng at 21/22/23 was better than Prince at 26/27/28. He’s 5+ years younger, it’s a no brainer.
Also, there’s no such thing as the same player, and if a trade only makes you slightly better, you still do it.
If Deng is so great how come the Bulls were better with him off the court then with him on the court? The field goal percentage of the opposition is way up with Deng on the court compared to off? The Pistons were +5.2 pts per 100 possesions with Prince on court and the Bulls were -1.6 per 100 possessions with Deng on the court.
And it’s not Prince’s PER vs. Deng’s PER — it’s the SF PER vs. his opposing player and by that measure Deng has a +2.6 PER advantage over his matchup in games and Prince has a +3.3 PER advantage over opposing SFs.
I’ll be horrified if this deal goes through. It’s going to hurt the Pistons ball movement (which hurts team FG%), drive up their turnovers, and hurt their defense. Is the problem with this team really Tayshaun Prince getting outplayed by Paul Pierce and LeBron James or Rasheed Wallace getting outplayed by Kendrick Perkins and Billups getting outplayed by Boobie Gibson and Rajon Rondo? I mean come on…Prince brings it every night.
MP, I think that the Potted Crow sounds best. Crow is a tough, gamey meat, so having it simmer for a few hours should give it some much needed tenderness. Plus, there’s bacon!
EE, pretty accurate breakdown of the big 4.
“I would rather see 20-25 mins of Sheed playing balls-to-the-wall instead of 33 mins and him giving 1/2 effort 50% of the time”
I completely agree E-Double…25 minutes of mostly being in the post on offense with the occasional 3 sprinkled in and being active on defense. M. Curry has said that his offense will focus on getting more points in the paint, whether it be through dribble penetration or post ups. Flip could never get Sheed to consistently play in the post (not all Flip’s fault), so it’ll be interesting to see Curry’s comments on Sheed’s role in the offense if he’s still on the team come training camp time.
@ The people who think Prince/Young Guy for Smith isn’t an option:
How do you know? SI’s reporting that Smith doesn’t want to go back to Atlanta, and if he does, it’s going to be a 1 year qualifying offer and he goes UFA next year. If you’re Rick Sund, aren’t you getting something back for Smith? Aren’t you forced to take the best deal available? It’s not like the Hawks are winning jack next season. If you’re going to lose one of your best players aren’t you getting 75 cents on the dollar for him today instead of diddly next summer? Maybe that particular trade isn’t an option, but we can certainly do something to get Smith.
@joejoejoe
“Is the problem with this team really Tayshaun Prince getting outplayed by Paul Pierce and LeBron James or Rasheed Wallace getting outplayed by Kendrick Perkins and Billups getting outplayed by Boobie Gibson and Rajon Rondo? I mean come on…Prince brings it every night.”
You’re using the Boston series to defend Tay?.. Pierce v Prince was where the series was lost, in my opinion. Everything else went pretty much as you’d expect, including the Billups-Rondo matchup.
Push, Perkins having a double/double before halftime in Game 5 or 6 (I can’t remember) wasn’t a bigger problem than the best player on their team being the better than our 4th best player? Really?
@Other Matt
“@ The people who think Prince/Young Guy for Smith isn’t an option:
How do you know?”
Did anyone say it wasn’t an option? Anyhow, if the Hawks were to sign-and-trade Smith, I doubt it’d be for a 3. They already have Marvin Williams and likely Josh Childress. They’d then have three potential starting SFs and no PF.
@Other Matt
“Push, Perkins having a double/double before halftime in Game 5 or 6 (I can’t remember) wasn’t a bigger problem than the best player on their team being the better than our 4th best player? Really?”
No, one of their role players having a nice half wasn’t a bigger problem than PP killing TP all series long. To say he was “better” is a largish understatement. And best vs 4th best? You could argue 2nd best vs 2nd best. Never-the-less, it was expected Pierce would outplay Prince, but to the extent that he did I think was the biggest factor in them winning it. All the other matchups pretty much went as expected.
Dude, Paul Pierce is the best player on their team by a LARGE margin. He’s a top 5 guy in the league. It took the Celtics until Game 7 against Cleveland to figure out who their best player was, and if they hadn’t figured it out then, we’d be talking about our 2nd title with this group. Nobody in the league is defending Pierce when he’s playing as well as he played in the playoffs.
And yes, their role players killing members of our “core” was the reason we lost that series. It wasn’t KG, it wasn’t Allen, and it wasn’t Pierce. If you’ll recall, we beat them on a night where those 3 combined for something like 75 points and everybody in Boston was convinced the sky was falling. So, yeah, I’m saying that Perkins/Rondo/Posey being better than some of our “core” guys is exactly the reason we lost that series.
Also, Billups and Hamilton are our best 2 players. Rasheed, with this team built the way it currently is would be our 3rd best player, and Tayshaun is a close 4th. If you disagree with my ranking of Rasheed and Tay, there’s no objective measure (if you watched every game like many of us did) with which to argue that Tay is better than either of our All-Star (as voted by the players) guards.
Sorry guys. Couldn’t sleep last night so you had to be subject to my bantering about the Big 4. In a nutshell, I was just trying to say I’m ready for a shake-up (i.e. Stackhouse in his primse for Rip). But they all bring a lot to the table in their own right, even though they have shortcomings. I can’t figure out who to give up and what we can get back man. In regards to CB for Beadris (spelling), I just haven’t watched enough of him to have an opinion. As well, its hard to rate guys in Don Nelson’s crazy ass system man. You don’t know what they can do in the ‘real world’. If he can be a above average big man and do the grunt work while Sheed acts as the finesse guy, then I think I may be willing to do it. But that means Tay can’t be traded. I think either Chauncey’s teaching and/or Tays help while on the floor is crucial for Stuckey’s continued development. Deng vs Tay. That’s an interesting call also because it appears Deng is more dangerous offensively, but as someone pointed out here, Deng was usually the 1st or 2nd offensive option while Tay is 4th. So that would definitely help Deng average 5 more pts/game. I think if you line them up considering the stats, tangibles as well as intangibles (we all know Tay does a ton of things that don’t hit the stat sheet, he’s sometimes a great Asst. PG) I think it may almost be a wash. Deng scores more but Tays scoring jumps 5-10 pts whenever Rip is out the line-up. Now the fact that Deng is only 23 is appealing but the fact that he just turned down a big extension from Chicago last summer means he’s going to be expensive. At least maybe significantly more than Tay’s $9 million salary. We also lose I think some continuity on the offensive end. I think I’ll pass on that trade. I’m not paying McGrady $20+million. The hell with it, I still want Carmelo. Lebron has been to the Finals, Dwayne wade has a ring and Finals MVP trophy. He wants to keep up with his two buddies and may be willing to do whatever it takes to win. In Joe D. we trust.
I’m curious fellas. Who do you guys think is the most expendable on the Pistons roster? I’m not saying who has the highest worth or trade value. Which of the Big 4 do you guys think would have the least negative impact on our squad by leavin?. Regardless of who we get in return, who do you guys feel is maybe the most easily replaced. Maybe that’s a better way to put it.
Other Matt and Push: I agree with both you guys. I think your argument is a wash. Pierce averaging about 35 pts and Tay 5 (I know slight exaggeration) hurt like hell. But so did Perkins just completely kickinig our asses 1 or 2 games as well. He had 1 or 2 games where that S.O.B. looked like an all star man. I think Sheed somewhat disappeared during this series also. I think, I think. Hell, its all becoming fuzzy now, I’m so busy looking ahead, I can’t focus on the past as well as I used to
.
Kevin Garnett is one of the best PFs of all time. Paul Pierce is great, but he’s no KG. I think Rip is better than Tay too, but I think you could make an argument either way. There’d be people out there who think he’s our second best player, coach K possibly one of them.
Anyhow, it’s time to throw some stats into the ring. Here’s the FG% of Pierce and Prince: regular season, playoffs (not including the ECFs), and then then ECF. On the end I’ll tack on PPG/RPG/APG for the ECFs.
Pierce: .464 / .427 / .494 / 19.7 / 5.8 / 3.8
Prince: .448 / .562 / .324 / 9.8 / 4.3 / 3.0
As for Rondo and Posey, I would argue they both had their worst playoff series against us. Posey shot .346 against us and .462 for the rest of the playoffs, Rondo .349 and .425. Perkins had a nice series, no question, but he did shoot .615 on the year and have 9.9 boards per 40 mins. He didn’t shoot up from nowhere.
And yes, Tay is the 3rd & 4th best player. I say he and Sheed are about tied at this point for the 3rd spot. The two guards are definitely our best two players. I don’t even think that’s really an argument there guys. So I guess Afflalo is somewhere between the 25 pts he had the night he couldn’t miss and the 1-13 he was that last game. Guess he’s somewhere in between. I really need Stuck, Afflalo, Maximus and Amir to all take a step forward this year. I’m expecting Max and Stuck to flat out kick other benches ass. Period. That’s if Max isn’t starting. If he starts, I say he becomes our inside guy, where we play inside out with him and either one of the guards. If Sheed doesn’t want to stay his ass in the post, thats fine. Give his shots to Maximus. He showed me some very nice offensive skills in the playoffs. I think he’s ready for a breakout year next year (14-15 pts, 7-8 rebs). We always drool over Amir. Call me crazy but I think Maximus will be doing a pretty good Charles Barkely impersonation in next maybe 1 1/2 - 2 yrs with consistent 25 mins per game and being used as maybe the 2nd scoring option and we play inside out ball, like Larry Brown loved to. So you chaps drool over Amir and I’ll keep my man-crush on Maximus. I think two years from now he and Stuckey can be all-stars (if given the mins and the proper roles). BTW, Amir doesn’t look any bigger to me and I think he’ll get pushed around in the paint defensively again this year. He still looks lost on offense also. I see the talent, I’m not doubting that. I’m just doubting he’s as ready as many on DBB nation thinks he is.
One last thing before I retire for now. I think PER numbers are complete trash if used out of context. If you’re using PER to say two guys are equall its just that one guy plays 30 mins and the other guy averages 40 mins, so naturally player #2 has slightly better stats, then fine. But to take someone like Amir and take their 10 mins/game averages and expand them to 48 mins and say someone would average 25 & 10 according to their PER is straight GARBAGE. (Just used 25/10 to make my point, not saying thats his PER). To me that’s the equivalent of saying if a guy is a lights out relief pitcher, meaning he’s untouchable 1 inning at a time and saying if he pitched all 9 innings he’d have a ton of no hitters and strike everybody out constantly. I know ERA in baseball is the equivalent of a PER in basketball, but for a relief pitcher you expect a higher ERA because if the guy occasionally gives up a run before getting the 3 outs, his ERA for that game is 9. My point being PER for a player who plays significant minutes is ok, thats the same as the ERA for a starting pitcher in baseball, but PER for someone like Amir or anyone else who plays 10-15 mins is trash. You can’t assume what a guy can do for 10 mins automatically means if you bless him with 30 mins he’s going to triple the numbers he was putting up in 10. I’m sure many of you who ar very very good with stats will TOTALLY disagree with me, but that my humble opinion. Here’s a better example that I would like to see how someone tries to argue against. If Jarvis Hayes comes in for 2 mins and hits a quick 3 and doesn’t play again. His PER for that game is 72 pts/game…..are you kidding me? I know the PER is based on a body of work, not one quick game. But just because a guy fills in nicely for 10 mins doesn’t mean he’ll be an all-star if he played 30 mins. Peace!!!!!!!!!!!
othermatt,
Josh Smith is a coverted talent, which means we’ll be in line with a dozen other teams looking to put together an offer. In addition to players, they can offer draft picks and cap space.
I’m somewhat ambivalent about this trade, but I keep coming back to the idea that the reason we’ve fallen short these past couple of years isn’t because the other teams possessed far superior talent. Rather, most would agree, that we failed because we didn’t stick to our gameplan and play with the heart and ferocity that we displayed in the championship season. I think Prince embodies that. Yes, he was terrible in the ECF. He also put the team on his back in the first two rounds.
Finally, Deng is clearly the better offensive player and rebounder. His defense, in my opinion, is terrible. I think he leads to us being more complacent and soft. I can’t get on board with shipping Tay out for him.
I’m somewhat ambivalent about this trade, but I keep coming back to the idea that the reason we’ve fallen short these past couple of years isn’t because the other teams possessed far superior talent. Rather, most would agree, that we failed because we didn’t stick to our gameplan and play with the heart and ferocity that we displayed in the championship season. I think Prince embodies that. Yes, he was terrible in the ECF. He also put the team on his back in the first two rounds.
Finally, Deng is clearly the better offensive player and rebounder. His defense, in my opinion, is terrible. I think he leads to us being more complacent and soft. I can’t get on board with shipping Tay out for him. Keep in mind, i have no actual evidence - these are just my impressions, from having watched Deng a few times.
forgive the duplicate posts - my bad.
push: You’re wrong on this one. What happened in the ECF is that we gave it away to laziness. Kendrick Perkins, a guy with playoff averages of: 6.6 and 6.1 (read: useless) went for 18 and 16 in Game 5. That’s not A problem, that’s THE problem. Perkins had a higher +/- than Pierce in 5 of 6 games. That’s not the end all-be all, but isn’t that weird that Perkins beat Pierce in +/- 5 out of 6 against us and then turned around and lost +/- to Pierce in 4 out of the 5 games Perkins played in during the Finals? Maybe Perk must’ve known what we all think about his uselessness and he decided, if he can’t get points on the SAT he’s going to get them on the Pistons to spite his detractors?
E-Double: Just like I say with Amir, you’ve got to take how the baskets were scored into account, no matter how much some people (MP, where you at?) want to ignore it. Perkins will never look like an all-star because he’s the farthest thing from one. However, when he’s not being guarded because the Pistons suddenly choose not to stop penetration and instead leave the least offensively skilled player WIDE open right next to the basket, well, even non-NBA level talents can make those shots consistently. Thank you for the anti-PER love, though. I like your relief pitcher analogy a lot. I think it’s solid. Also thanks for backing me up on the “Amir is confused on offense front”. Those who want to ignore it will continue to do so, but it’s there. I’m just curious as to how Tay is both the “3rd & 4th best player” on our team. How can he occupy both spots?
push: I forgot to ask, were you going to explain how it’s logical to say Pierce LIT up Tay when Boston went 2-1 in the games Pierce scored 16, 16 and 11 and 2-1 when he scored over 20? I believe you’re writing some revisionist history, because to me, that means it really didn’t make a difference what Pierce did and didn’t score.
I didn’t read all the comments, but I have to say I agree that we lost because of laziness. Guys like Leon Powe and Perkins thrive on toughness and energy, because quite frankly their skill sets are lacking. They beat us to loose balls and we consistently failed to box out. That should not be happening on a team whose slogan is “Goin to Work” or whatever iteration they are using now.
Fact is, the Pistons have gotten soft and lazy since Larry Brown skipped town. I love this team and I think it’s the most talented in the league, but we were never the kind of squad that could motivate itself, no matter what the media says. We needed LB yelling at the players to do the right thing every time down the floor and subbing them out if they didn’t. I have to believe Curry will not tolerate the sort of nonsense that Flip did and I fully expect him to pull Rip, Sheed and Chauncey when they start dogging it to play Stuckey, Maxiell and Afflalo.
I’ve been watching the summer league and Amir does look lost on offense. He still lacks a go-to move. That being said, I want him to get minutes, but they should let him focus on defense and rebounding, so he can take advantage of his athleticism and energy. Maxiell should be looked at more consistently for low post offense, he’s like a great combination of Corliss and Ben Wallace.
@S.O.D., thanks for feeling me on the Maximus love.
We all know Sheed has all the talent in the world but I’m referring to what they actually produce, not what they are capable of.
@Lawyerboy, I just meant he and sheed both are multi-talented and are may be tied as our 3rd best player. (I though I explained that). That’s all I meant Bro.
When I first met my SpottieOttieDopaliscious angel I can remember that damn thang like yesterday … He understood everything I was trying to say and agreed. Amir is lost on offense (Suck it MP, the movement is gaining momentum despite your claims I’m swimming alone), and the ONLY thing you can chalk up our loss to Boston under is “laziness” or some comparable form of “general neglect” on hustle, not talent or skill. Just my interpretation of the situation.
LB: “Suck it, MP?” I thought MP was your boy. I was envisioning a MP/LB v. Kevin S./Boney Tag Team match for the InterContinental Title. But, then you go and take a folding chair to the back of MP’s head.
I was going to make a reference to you being like one of those good guy wrestlers that suddenly turned into a bad guy but I don’t know enough about wrestling to come up with a good example.
I’ll help, QD!
It’s like Shawn Michaels kicking Marty Janetty (sic) through a mirror!
That’s the best I could do on short notice.
Prince for Deng is garbage. It’s too much of a wash to really do any good. Deng’s a good player, kindof reminds me of Lamar Odom– good, but just that: good. Not elite, not game-changing. This is a wash.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again– Tay + filler for Josh Smith. Smith takes Tay’s spot and at 22 years old is already better at EVERYTHING (excluding 3’s, which he can practice). More points, more rebounds, more blocks, more steals, same assists, you get the picture.
And don’t forget, if we can’t get Smith, ANDRE IGUODALA is in the exact same boat (restricted FA). Again, he plays Tay’s spot, is much younger, and is an improvement in basically every area. The more that I think about it, I might be more for AI than Josh Smith– AI’s already shown to be a much better facilitator and scorer, and with as quick as he is (and his 6′11″ wingspan), he’d be a terror in the passing lanes.
That’s my 2 cents: sign and trade for J Smith or AI.
Oh, and throw like 3 mil at Kwame Brown– he can defend (reasonably), he’s a hulk (what, 7ft 270lbs?), rebounds, and we can put Sheed back at the 4. Boston has a sped at the 5– we should too.
Chauncey/Stuck/Bynum
Rip/AA/Stuck
JSmith or AI/Sharpe
Sheed/Amir/Samb (Max goes to ATL)
Kwami/Dyce/Amir/Samb
“I was going to make a reference to you being like one of those good guy wrestlers that suddenly turned into a bad guy but I don’t know enough about wrestling to come up with a good example.”
Macho Man, right? Didn’t he do that?
Most famously, Hulk Hogan went bad when he went from WWF to WCW.
QD: MP is absolutely my boy. Love him to death. I wish Mike lived out here with us, you, MP (throw in JackDutch if he’s not stuck at work) would make a helluva crew to catch a game. MP knew I was going to say something like that and it’s all in good fun. He knows he’s got a bigger crush on Amir than I have on Kevin Pritchard (impossible, right?). I just love pointing out that he boldly claimed I was alone in my “confused look” theory and then like 8,000,000 DBBers came out of the woodwork to agree with me.
Birdman: Michaels kicked Marty Jannetty in the face THEN picked up his prone body and chucked it face-first through the window on the set of Brutus “The Barber” (not such a good gimmick) Beefcake’s “Barber Shop” talk show set. True or false: I have a video file of it on an external hard drive. TRUE.
2007-2008 Season Stats:
Tayshawn Prince 13.2ppg/ .4bpg/ .5spg/ 3.3apg/ 4.9rpg/ 44.8fg%
Josh Smith 17.2 2.8 1.5 3.4 8.2 45.7
Andre Iguodala 19.9 .6 2.1 4.8 5.4 45.6
As I said before, it’s really not even close. Both these players better or equal Tay in every relevant statistical category, and both are much younger. AI’s stats are downright Pippen-like.
Joe D.– do something. I don’t care what. Get us a stud.
Correction: Tayshaun
I don’t think kevin s. would want to be my tag team partner..
I don’t think anyone here would want to be my tag team partner…
and that makes me sad
“To me that’s the equivalent of saying if a guy is a lights out relief pitcher, meaning he’s untouchable 1 inning at a time and saying if he pitched all 9 innings he’d have a ton of no hitters and strike everybody out constantly. ”
The difference is that pitcher’s get fatigued after one inning. That fatigue point is much less pronounced in the NBA, which is why PER in small minutes tends to translate so well.
Local DEETROIT-RADIO reported (two seperate sources of Drew “Boodini” Sharp, and Doug Karsch) Josh Smith is, and has been, the #1 target. Sign and trade deal involving Tayshaun.
Also, Joe is alledgedly waiting to see if LA matches G States’ offer sheet to Turiaf. If they do not, Joe wants to throw big dollars at Beidrins in the hopes the Warriors are hamstrung by the possible Turiaf contract. If this is the plan (and it is only hearsay, but with two sources), the starting line-up of your Detroit Pistons would go:
Billups
Rip
Josh Smith
Beidrins
Roscoe
I know the Pistons would have to move more dollars off their books than just Tay, but this is what was discussed. Discuss.
Dude, LB, you need to go back up and re-read all of my comments on the issue. Read them, write them down, memorize them, because you’re entirely misrepresenting everything I’ve said and ignoring my main points.
“you’ve got to take how the baskets were scored into account, no matter how much some people (MP, where you at?) want to ignore it.”
I replied to this and I told you that if you want to make that claim, back it up by comparing the PER of other players who contribute the same minutes per game as Amir.
“Amir is lost on offense (Suck it MP, the movement is gaining momentum despite your claims I’m swimming alone)”
Dude, again you are not listening to what I’m saying and misrepresenting my points. You’ve changed your argument. Here’s what I said:
“You’re alone on that one, LB. Really, we can all discuss stats, per game performance and otherwise, but if I’m gonna talk about a guy’s facial expressions, there are a whole lot of successful players that I think look retarded, night in night out. I really hope that we can move forward without making a players FACE a subject of concern, when you’ve chosen to look away from his STATS at the same time.”
Your whole premise was on the look on Amir’s face. You’ve since changed your argument to ““Amir is confused on offense front”.
I think making a case based on facial expressions and ignoring stats is ridiculous. retarded.
Personally, I don’t think Amir has been comfortable on offense yet. And by saying that, I am in agreement with most here, maybe even you. Yet as I have said in a recent comment, Amir is easily defended against your claim. Last season, Amir’s only offensive assignment was to grab offensive boards, make put backs and tip ins, basically be a sweeper for any of the other players mistakes. Amir was not involved in our offensive playmaking. When the play would fall apart, when the opposing team would stifle it, the ball would ocassionally end up in Amir’s hands. The only other time the ball would wind up in Amir’s hands is when he wrestled it from the opposing team or blocked it off the court.
Involve Amir in our offense, give him more playing time, and any discomfort on his part, real or suggested, will fade.
@QD:
“LB: “Suck it, MP?” I thought MP was your boy. I was envisioning a MP/LB v. Kevin S./Boney Tag Team match for the InterContinental Title. But, then you go and take a folding chair to the back of MP’s head.”
I’m a lover, not a fighter, baby! Besides, Kevin S. is a brilliant guy, I read his comments with a lot of admiration. Sure, we exchange subtle quips and have boiled over once or twice, but he’