Just like yesterday, I’ll be doing a live chat about the Summer League over at FanHouse from 6:30-7:30. Head over if you have any questions about Detroit’s draft picks, Amir Johnson and Cheikh Samb’s progress, what Detroit missed out on by passing up Nathan Jawai, or anything, really. Thing were pretty slow yesterday, so I can almost guarantee I’ll get to your question. If not today, we’ll be doing one last chat on Sunday evening. (Update: actually, no, we’re not.)
As I’m sure you noticed, I haven’t had much time to post on DBB since I’ve been out here, but I did post (yet another) Amir Johnson interview yesterday. I also talked to Will Bynum and Deron Washington after yesterday’s game — I hope to get those up later today. (Also Tractor!)
what Detroit missed out on by passing up Nathan Jawai,>>
Nathan Jawai rather than Walter Sharpe?
For all of you who want to trade my man Maximus as part of the Josh Smith sign & trade, I have a suggestion. I wonder why the rumors aren’t Chauncey + young gun for Smith? The Hawks need a PG down here in Atlanta and the rumor early on was they weren’t going to re-sign Bibby since he stunk up the playoffs (unless they did and I missed it). I don’t track the Hawks closely during the off-season. Only my Pistons. Ok Matt Watson, I’ll stir up a ton of comments with this suggestion. Why don’t we send Almighty Amir & Chauncey to Atlanta for Smith. We let Stuckey, Juan Dixon and a tiny bit of Lindsey man the point. We use Josh Smith like Ginobilli, doesn’t start but plays 35 mins a game at the 2, 3 & 4. (Thats just in numeric order, not in order of which position he’ll focus on). Let him guard big 2’s that aren’t too cat quick for him, he can guard any 3, and most 4’s (too slender for really bulky 4’s). If he insists on starting for the ’status’ then Tay becomes Ginobilli and doesn’t start but still plays 30 mins a game and we still use Josh in the variety of ways I mentioned. Just a thought fellas. I didn’t get any feedback on wanting to hear from DBB Nation on who you guys think is the most expendable of the Big 4. Who’s most replaceable, who means the least to our success? I’m not asking who has the highest or least trade value.
E-Double - For me the most replaceable of the “Big 4″ is Billups because he has the best backup. Billups might be the Pistons best player but I think it’s clear that Stuckey is the most ready to step in and start for a playoff team. Therefore for me Billups is most expendable. I’d also say that Billups is also the most valuable trading chip.
Yeah, I have to agree with joejoejoe…Billups is the most expendable because of Stuckey. I’d say Rip is next b/c a Chauncey & Stuckey back court could be pretty dangerous as well.
I’d actually say ‘Sheed is the most replaceable. Rip needs Chauncey’s accurate passing, which I’m not sure that Stuckey can replicate. However, ‘Sheed is a power forward, masquerading as a center. McDyess can do that, same with Max and maybe Amir, depending upon matchups.
Sheed is absolutely the most irreplacable, which is incredibly frustrating if you find his inconsistent play and immature behavior distracting and detrimental to team success. He is, however, 6′11′, a top-notch defender, and a very skilled offensive player who can score in a variety of ways. Moreover, no one else on the pistons can play the same level of interior defense against a wide variety of offensive players as him. McDyess is the only one who comes close, but he just doesn’t have the length nor guile to guard the elite big men night in and night out. He has done well sharing the load with Sheed, but with Sheed gone it would be too much to ask for him to be the primary defender night in and night out. That means that if you trade sheed, you have to get another big guy of equal or higher value, or at least a promising young’n. Not likely to happen. We’re stuck with Sheed for better of worse - unless he’s packaged with another starter for a star. I’m not even going to address the idea of Maxiel and Amir guarding large 4’s and 5’s. Ridiculous.
E Double
Josh Smith is not a guy you put on the bench in a “Ginobili” role. He doesn’t have the ability to dominate a game on the offensive end, like Ginobili can’.
the most expendable Piston has to be Billups. The problem is, there are few veteran PGs out there worthy of wearing the Piston red white and blue that can back up Stuckey. I don’t think Stuckey can set up the offense like Chaunce either, which may hinder Rip’s abilities. Stuckey is still a scorer, and he’ll create for the post players off his drives rather than setting up at the top of the key and waiting for a curling Rip.
After Billups, it’s Rip. After Rip it’s Sheed/Dyess.
I think Tay is enough of a leader to keep things together while this mid-career rebuilding mode takes place around him.
Damn it seems all I’ve done since I started posting disagree.. but here we go again..
I don’t think Stuckey is as ready to start as most DBB posters seem to be. He did some nice things in the playoffs but they stood out more than they perhaps should have 1) because he’s a rookie and 2) it’s not usual seeing a ‘Ston drive all the way to the hole and score.
There’s signs that point to him being a star down the line but he still doesn’t really have a jumper. I can seem him being guarded with more cushion next season, teams giving him the jumper. He needs to prove on his outside shot (.401 FG% on the year, .371 in the playoffs).
I’d be more comfortable with Max stepping into the starting lineup than Stuck. Actually I might put Stuck third behind Amir. Therefore I’d put Dice/Sheed as more expendable than Bill/Rip. In fact what I’d like to see Joe do is leave the guards alone and package Tay/Sheed/Dice into a true 5 and better 3 somehow. One of Biedrins/Okafor/Kaman and a J.Smith/Iggy/Deng. Don’t ask me how, though, but that’s my dream.
*is disagree
Colin, since you’re not going to address Maxiell and Amir guarding large 4’s and 5’s, I will. I don’t think that Amir can guard the bruising types of players. However, Maxiell can. He did a good job on Dwight Howard, who happens to be the best center in the NBA and is a rather large man. I doubt that Curry would have Amir defend someone like Howard or Kendrick Perkins. Grouping Amir and Maxiell together like they have similar defensive abilities is simply not accurate.
Push, you really think Amir is possibly more prepared to start than Stuck? Ok, I guess I really need to start paying very close attention come training camp and pre-season so I can see what so many in the DBB Nation see as far as Amir being ready to start. I totally understand your concerns about Stuck cause he’s only played 1/2 an NBA season thus far in his career. But I felt as the playoffs went along he showed a consistent jumper. I also thought I remembered the reports from Vegas were that he was still sticking that jumper. (I could be wrong).
Birdman, I totally agree about Amir. I think once he learns that good defense is more than just blocking someones shot, it’s also dennying position and making them work hard for their points. He seems to try to block everyshot (which is good) I’m just saying you have to body a guy up as well. At best you’re only going to block 3 shots a game max so you have to play overall good defense. I think brief history has shown so far that Max and Ammir don’t rebound well together either, for whatever reason. At any rate. Have a great day guys!
Birdman,
I agree that it Maxiel and Amir are much different players. My point is that if a starting line up of Dyess and either Maxiel or Amir has glaring deficiencies. You’ve conceded that Amir doesn’t has the bulk to guard a Perkins of a Howard. I love Maxiell, and he did a great job on Howard in limited minutes, but he is a mediocre to poor defensife rebounder and doesn’t have the length to consistenly challenge taller opponents w/o fouling. The man’s a beast, but he simply isn’t in the same league as defenders like Sheed. Lumping Max and Amir together in the “ridiculous” category was a bit hyperbolic, but I stand by my argument that removing sheed puts a ton of stress on the interior D. Dyess and Max are good defenders. Sheed is a great and versatile defender. Amir may improve as he matures and bulks up. If you remove Sheed you not only decrease the defensive acumen at the starting positions, but lose quality depth. Suddenly Amir is the first big off the bench? That would make me very nervous.
*is that a starting…*doesn’t have….*defensive
Need to proof read - sorry.
I agree the Chauncey is the most expendable out of the Big Four, for all the reasons above plus one more. Chauncey is the most complacent. When he came in, he was all eager to prove himself not a bust. Now it seems like losing doesn’t even phaze him. I can’t tell you how pissed he makes me with all his “we can turn it on when we have to” talk.
Yes he’s extremely talented, a great floor general and one of the best point guards in the league. But I think Stuckey has the talent to replace him, plus one more thing you can’t teach: hunger. It’s something we are lacking, and Chauncey and Sheed more than anyone else. Sheed is the least replaceable for the reasons listed above, though good point guards are hard to find. Lucky for us we happen to have a future all-star sitting on the bench.
@S.O.D: I totally agree about Chauncey and the complacency thing. Glad to see I’m not the only one who sees it man. If he stays, Curry needs to send a strong message to him some kind of way.
Colin, I certainly agree that ‘Sheed is a great defender. The Pistons would certainly lose a lot if he were gone. However, I do think that ‘Sheed is the most replaceable of the so-called “Big 4,” given the team’s depth at power forward. Replacing ‘Sheed with Maxiell is less of a drop off than replacing Billups with Stuckey.
I want to say Sheed because I think he’s the biggest problem with attitude the team, but I agree that his skills are frustratingly irreplaceable. That being said, when you know someone’s not going to deliver when you need it most, they have to go (although you might as well just let his contract expire). Plus, he’s the highest paid player and delivers the least in relation to his contract.
I agree that Chauncey also has a lot to do with the attitude problem but I think Stuckey’s presence will actually motivate Chauncey. There will be legitimate competition for minutes. I think he’ll respond.
I don’t have stats to back up my claims about either player. It’s pure conjecture and opinion. Take it or leave it.
“Chauncey is the most complacent. When he came in, he was all eager to prove himself not a bust. Now it seems like losing doesn’t even phaze him. ”
He had his best season as a pro last year. Are you saying rhetoric is more important than performance? Players who don’t care turn the ball over and don’t get to the line.
By the way, Stuckey was not sticking his jumper in the playoffs (he shot 37%), didn’t stick it in the Summer League (39%) and has yet to show that he legitimately has a jumpshot in his arsenal.
There are players who never do so, and it has little to do with whether they are hungry or not. Developing any skill at an NBA level requires excellent mechanics, and practice can only go so far in developing those mechanics (ask any seven footer who struggles from the free throw line).
It could be that Stuckey is still erasing bad habits developed by outplaying inferior competition. But it is also possible that he has developed a game around a glaring weakness. I want to know which it is before I trade away our best player.
I have a hard time accepting that Stuckey is ready to be a starter. His jumper is too poor, and he needs some time to round out his decision making (”that wasn’t a great time to drive, kiddo”). Maybe he’ll be ready in a few years, but I have huge, LawyerBoy about Amir Johnson sized doubts about Stuckey as the starting point on a contending team. I can see Chauncey being a proponent of the “switch”, but he played well throughout the playoffs this year, except against Philly. I don’t see replacing him with Stuckey as anything but a huge downgrade.
I would say Sheed is more replaceable. His defense has always been tenacious, that’s never been the issue. His offense in Detroit has never really been more than average, though. People tout his post game and his range, but having offensive variety isn’t necessarily great if at the end of the day, you shoot 43% and rarely get to the line. I always though his post game was a bit overblown because he isn’t great at drawing fouls with it, and he’s always been a bit on and off with his 3 point shooting. He’s also been a poor rebounder throughout his career. Maxiell starting would be a step down at this point, but it wouldn’t be a stark one.
“I agree that Chauncey also has a lot to do with the attitude problem but I think Stuckey’s presence will actually motivate Chauncey. There will be legitimate competition for minutes. I think he’ll respond.”
Very interesting observation QD.
Let’s say no major changes are made before the season starts. You would think all of the veterans would have a little more urgency since they’d all be on the trading block until the February deadline and they’d all have young guys dying for more minutes right behind them…couple that with M. Curry being the new sheriff in town who’ll hold players accountable for lack of effort and defense.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we had an even better regular season next year. I would still be a bit skeptical (as far as winning the title) come playoff team because IMO our biggest issue has been lack of players who can create their own shot or shots for others.
The most replaceable is Rip. It’s true that he plays the hardest of all the starters but he lacks athleticism. If we would have over payed for a Corey Maggette or Michael Pietrus we would have had a chance to replace Rips production (maybe). I have to agree with Push. Stuckey is not ready to replace Chauncey because it takes some time to learn the point guard position, know your team mates and impact games when it matters. We are asking an awful lot of Stuckey who I think would need a veteran presence in the back court to defer to when/if he is confused during crunch time. In my opinion that is not Rip. He has a scorers first mentality and will attempt ill advised shots at crucial times.
I have to respond to this ideal that Chauncey is the most complacent. If you’re basing this on interviews you have to remember that Chauncey is a basketball player. Not a spokesman for the team. What matters is his production on the court and it hasn’t dropped off in the regular season.
Chauncey’s production in the playoffs seem less than enthusiastic though because teams have figured him out. They trap him in the half court and force the ball out of his hands. Rip doesn’t have good handles and as a result is not a threat to facilitate for his team mates. Tay might help but the trap still takes time off the shot clock and forces the Pistons into hurried shots. Which also leads to fewer potential offensive rebound opportunities.
Teams like Milwaukee, Orlando and Toronto can’t do this because they have smaller or slower guards but Cleveland and Boston have the personnel to get it done. And therefore give us problems.
Finally, why is it that we think we can divine what’s in a players head? Chauncey is a competitor just like every other competitor. When he has an advantage over the competition he exploits it. When the competition has an advantage over him he gets exploited and the Pistons lose. I don’t think it’s either fair or thoughtful to assume that the reason someone fails is because they were complacent.
“I have a hard time accepting that Stuckey is ready to be a starter. His jumper is too poor, and he needs some time to round out his decision making (”that wasn’t a great time to drive, kiddo”).”
I’ve made the comparison before, but isn’t that almost exactly what was being said about Rajon Rondo entering his second season? Rondo was a second year player(like Stuckey), who was drafted after playing two years in college(like Stuckey), who had no jumper (worse then Stuckey’s), yet he was the starting pg on a championship team(like Stuckey?). If Billups is gone we’ll have a lot of talent at the 2-5 positions on our roster, so Stuckey won’t have to carry the team the way CB does now.
I know it’s often that a home teams fan base has inflated opinions of their players, but I don’t think that’s the case with Stuckey. Chad Ford said there’s no way Stuckey goes past pick 5 if the 2007 draft is done again…the USA Select team picked Stuckey to be it’s pg over guys like Devin Harris and Rondo…and Joe D has Stuckey as the only untouchable on our team right now.
When Stuckey 1st came off the injured list after missing 25 games he looked completely lost, but by the time we were late in the playoffs he had the balls to get aggressive offensively and carry us for some stretches (mostly on the road), especially in the late 3rd/early 4th quarter of games. Just think how much he will improve if he’s able to play 75+ games at 30-35 mpg knowing he’s our starting pg. Plus, he bring something we desperately need…the ability to get to the hoop and get points in the paint.
If Stuckey is our starting pg next year I think we need to look at him as the player he’ll be come playoff time, not the player he’ll be at the start of the regular season.
jim your the man, nice post
E-Double: I like how you classified Amir in that earlier post. Amir’s trying to block every shot gets him the fouls though, I think. In Amir’s defense (not that you made any attack) I think his fouls will go down as he learns to play the more conventional, 20+ minutes/game defense that you speak of. The same exact thing happened with Patrick Ewing Jr. when he was at IU before he went to Georgetown, magnificent blocks on the regular, cringe inducing touch fouls also.
Spottie: Not to mention, Stuckey draws nearly all of his fouls at the cup, not by creating a large portion off the jumper. +1 Stuckey
QD: Great take on the Chauncey-Stuckey dynamic. I like it. I look forward to seeing if it comes true.
Jim: +1,000
AJ Boggs: “Jim, you’re the man, nice post.”
I know, I’m an ass, sorry.
There, fixed
chauncey can leave for the right price, besides sheeds contract runs out next year, and chauncey has 40 mill remaining…..maybe the future is now, and we can win it w/o him (for the right trade)
if nothing else we can spend sheeds money elsewhere if things do not work out for at least the ECF, although w/boston losing posey i think we are right there as of today w/ curry as the coach
I don’t really see it. We don’t have any player that is on par with Garnett or Pierce, and we don’t have a historically great defense. We don’t have the luxury of letting an inexperienced point guard take his lumps as Boston did, and we certainly can’t do so and still expect to contend, especially since Billups is a huge part of what makes Detroit contend. Besides, if we keep him and give Stuckey an expanded role (which he will get), we’d have production from the point guard position that could only really be beaten by New Orleans and possibly Utah.
I’m as high on Stuckey as anyone, but his and Rondo’s situations don’t seem that similar to me. Rondo was backed by superstar talent and a team with incredible defensive intensity, and he didn’t have to be a star. Detroit doesn’t have that kind of talent, so if Stuckey were inserted as a starter, he would have to play like a star from day one for us to contend.
Jim-
Rondo deferred to his all star team mates and was often exposed in the playoffs (though he did perform well at times). If you watched the half court offense of Boston you noticed that either Pierce or Allen generally had the ball in their hands at crucial times during the offensive. Stuckey would be expected to initiate and control the tempo of the team without the luxury of two strong ball handlers.
He would have Prince but opposing teams could just cut off the passing lanes to him.
I think everyone on this board thinks that Stuckey is a special talent. Maybe even Hall of Fame special. He might even be ready to start over Billups but I like the ideal of having Billups around. If we had to move someone let it be Rip.
Paul M: I like that counterpoint. I just wonder if Boston loses quite bit of that defensive intensity without Posey. They no longer have a go-to defensive stopper and Ray Allen is the only three-point shooter on par with Posey who they can actually use in the playoffs. Of course, what I’m talking about is more about Boston and less about us, just waxing poetic really.
Nice thoughts on Stuckey, Paul M.
The main difference between Stuck and Rondo is Rondo is more of a pure point guard. He lacks the offensive abilities that Stuckey has, while Stuckey has primarily been his team’s “Dwyane Wade”/shooting guard.
There is no doubt in my mind that Rondo has a chance to always be a better table setter than Stuckey, but Stuckey has more of an upside. We’re putting him a position to succeed not only in one, but two positions.
This isn’t based on much objective fact, but I have a hard time believing that Boston will defend as well next season. Posey was a big player on defense, and that’s one fewer perimeter defender they can use to cover up Allen. I also think they might run into the same issues with arrogance that we’ve come across the last few years (we’ve already seen it some. Perkins was talking trash all year). I’d like to know what’s going on with Thibodeau, who may be the biggest part. The man is a brilliant defensive coach who was also with Van Gundy in New York and Houston (both were fantastic defensive teams under their tenures). If he leaves and the defense is left to Doc, I can see them slipping quite a bit. But I heard he was up for a coaching position in New York or Chicago, and he didn’t take either.
I think that the most expendable Piston is already been Flipped over board.
How can you have a discussion about Billups-Smith without at least throwing out the possible:
Billups and Sheed for Smith and Bibby.
Pistons keep Amir (because this is a move for the future). Detroit has a veteran backup to Stuckey - and a glut of terrific PFs with reasonable contracts… perfect to shop for a defensive stalwart center (like Kaman).
And for the always forgotten other teams reason to pull the trigger: Billups-Johnson-Childress/Williams-Thorton-Sheed. Best Hawks team ever.
It’s at least worth an argument…
Satchel, I live in Atlanta and I’m not familiar with Thorton. Who is that? What happens if we give up Sheed but can’t make another trade for Kaman or similar center? That move is waaaaay risky my friend. It was obvious with how he played afer the Atlanta trade and definitely during the playoffs that Bibby was not healthy. I believe it was his ankle. Long term I don’t know what the prognosis is. I believe Bibby has a pretty fat contract. He makes a lot of money for a guy who’s health is a major question mark. I want Smith but not for Sheed, it simply leaves us too small in my opinion. You know for a damn 2nd round pick and $10 million/yr, I would have loved to have Camby. He could play the 5, Sheed goes back to 4. He only makes $2.0M more than Dice. I believe Dice makes $8M. A second round pick, are you freaking kidding me man. He could definitely match the 8 & 8 we get from Dice and bring the shot blocking. What the hell man!!!
E-Double…there’s no way we could have acquired Camby for only a second rounder. The reason the Clip’s only had to give up a second rounder was because they were way under the salary cap, so they didn’t have to have salaries in the trade match up. We’re over the cap, so we would have had to give up enough salary (or be within 25% I believe) to match the 10 million Camby makes.
Also, congrats on getting your AOL article with Amir posted on the Freep Matt! We all appreciate the time and effort you take into keeping this great site up and running.
Sheed for Artest and S. Williams
Artest could come off of the bench.
“It’s true that he plays the hardest of all the starters but he lacks athleticism.”
Does “athleticism” refer solely to jumping ability now? RIp runs other players ragged. That’s not athleticism?
As for Rondo, I’ll say this until I’m blue in the face. He was effective because nobody bothered to guard him. After his playoff performance, he’s going to have a man on him, and teams are going to stop playing the big three like they’re the second coming of Jordan, Dr. J and Kareem.
Stuckey will have a man on him every time he touches the ball.
I just saw that Okefor has indicated that he is at an impass with Charlotte, they are offering less than 12M/yr they did last year and wants a sign and trade. What about Okefor in the middle with Amir at the 4 and McDyees & Max off the bench? Or perhaps swapping Max and Amir? Obviouisly Sheed goes. We lose some scoring (but with everyone else I think we’ve got enough), Okefor is a better rebounder but I’d give low post D to Sheed, but not by enough to cancel this deal though. And I think Okefor comes with an attitude but could sign just a one year deal for salary purposes and we still have the cap space next summer and can sign Okefor then if it works out for more money (I think).
Also saw that the Pistons spoke to Devean George agent (it must be noted “briefly’ spoke) though no deal is imminent. I think George might be a servicable backup to Tay, though I wouldn’t be doing cartwheels.
It also says Will Bynum will sign a two year deal with a team option for the second.
Is Joe getting ready to pull the trigger on something big?
Devean George
I saw him play way too much when he was with the Lakers. I would prefer to not see him in a Stones uniform.
Kwame Brown would be interesting depending on how much we would have t pay him. He would certainly be better than Ratliff at this point.
He is a free agent. It will be very interesting to see what players are knocking on doors looking for a job come September.
It will also be interesting to see if Joe D. can get a deal done with Maxiell as he would become a restricted FA come next July if we don’t sign him to an extension before then.
I would see Maxiell getting a contract similar to what Turiaf got from the Warriors.
Three things:
First, my view of Chauncey as the most complacent is based primarily on the way he plays, not the way he talks. Yes the talk affects my perception (and I acknowledge that it is just my perception, not objective fact) but I’m basing it more on the way he runs the offense. Quite simply, the Pistons shoot more jumpshots than any player in the league. You can say it’s because that’s how our offense is contructed around Rip, because Sheed doesn’t post up enough, or because we lack true slashers, but I still say that it’s because Chauncey allows his teammates to settle for jumpers. He has shown in the past that he’s more than capable of getting to the hole at will, but he rarely tries to do so until the end of the game or when the Pistons are down. Yes it works sometimes, but I don’t want that. I want him attacking the rim in the first quarter, setting up easy jumpers for his teammates and generally forcing the action early on. That’s the way the NBA is going now and that’s what a point guard is supposed to do.
Second, Chauncey is way, way better than Stuckey. I’m not disputing that. I don’t think Stuckey is ready to start this year. I don’t think we should trade any of the big four. Chauncey is smart and takes care of the ball, plus he usually makes the right decisions. So I’m not dogging him. But out of them, I would trade Chauncey because I think that would go farther to change the team’s mindset than anyone else. I agree with ShawninDC that Rip is the most replaceable- there’s no shortage of talented shooting guards out there. And Rip is my least favorite Piston. But he tries hard every game and improves every season, which you just cannot throw away without sending the wrong message. Tayshaun is replaceable, but he’s a glue guy, a great defender, a career piston and fills a role that every team needs without complaining. Not to mention he’s clutch as hell. Sheed can’t be traded for the reasons below. So for those reasons, not because I’m against him, I would trade Chauncey. However, I would much rather see them keep all four and bring Stuckey along. I know he is not ready yet, but he has shown the talent and hunger to get there eventually.
Third, Sheed is our center defensively, not our power forward. I would argue he is our center on both ends of the court. We have no one else who can play center. In fact, there are not a whole lot of them out there in the league. He might not spend as much time in the paint as we would like, but just trade him and watch Amir or Max try to guard Dwight Howard full time and get back to me on that. Plus, his contract expires next year, so we can either re-sign him to a cheaper deal, allow him to retire in glory as a piston or use that cap space on someone else.
Mike: yes, George I think was over-rated playing with the Lakers and was overpaid based on a good series a number of years ago. He’s not my first choice, but with Posey getting 25M/4, Turiaff getting 17M/4 the market is overpriced I think. But I think for a 1 year deal, perhaps 2 he’d be serviceable.
Kwame - No thanks unless it’s for the vet minimum and even then I’d have to give serious thought about it and not signing Ratliff.
Childress is rumoured to be in Europe looking for a contract, which means the Hawks price for Smith just ballooned if that comes to fruition.
I also don’t think that having said what Joe D said (trading the core) that he wants to go from now to Feb with Sheed’s expiring contract hanging out there. Particularly if the Pistons stumble out of the gate (though I don’t think they will).
Kwame as the number one pick is a bust.
Kwame at 8mil a year is a bust.
Kwame for part of the MLE…
Then again, I have a soft spot for the guy, watching him play in LA and wanting the kid to get it together so he could stop being the butt of the joke.
Kwame - No thanks unless it’s for the vet minimum and even then I’d have to give serious thought about it and not signing Ratliff.>>
That is why I was suggesting that it will probably be until Sep before these things shake out. If Kwame is out of a job come Sep he probably could be had for the VM or part of the MLE.
Whether he is better than Ratliff at this point is certainly open to debate. One thing about Kwame is that it is primarily is offense or lack of it that have had people down on him. He is a pretty good defender even against the bigger guys. So if Ratliff doesn’t want to come back and we can get Kwame for for the VM than I would go for that.
He could battle Cheikh for the 12th spot of the roster.
Mike: I agree. The more the off-season goes, the more interesting it will be. I remember listening to one of the announcers in summer league, at least I think it was him and he said remember, there were 30 first round picks this year and all of them will be in the NBA this season. That means 30 vets are out of a job…give or take a couple.
Never really occurred to me to look at it this way. Andgiven the depth in this years draft, plus the CDRs and Bill Walkers of the world, I think alot of vets will bite on a MLE package for a contender that they normally wouldn’t think about, just to stay on teh NBA radar.
I also think Ratliff plays just a good defense as Kwame, perhaps not one-on-one, but with shot blocking and/or altering shots. That’s a push from where I see and Theo comes out on top because of his O,which isn’t saying much.
I would like to see Kwame do something becasue they beat the piss out of him here in LA.
If Theo wants to come back I agree I would give preference to him over Kwame, but if Theo decides to throw the towel in figuratively, not literally like Milka Donuts did this last week end, then I think Kwame would be a decent choice for the VM or part of the MLE.
Kwame is bigger, stronger and taller than Theo. I’m not trying to dismiss Theo at all (though I am on the Kwame-on-the-cheap bandwagon), a wily veteran who has remained in the league for thirteen seasons for a reason. However, I think it’s important to remember that Kwame would be much better than Theo at keeping opposing bulky centers from establishing position. Sheed is good at this too, but he has mobility (as does Theo, to an extent), and it seems like he doesn’t feel the need to stay at home defending his man in the post at all costs. When Sheed does this, it makes the establishing position effort moot. Kwame is slow enough that I’ve got to think he wouldn’t want to cheat off his man on penetration.
I came to LA before the ‘06-’07 season, which covers Kwame’s last season and a half here, and I agree with what’s stated above. My goodness were the LA fans (and even some media) merciless on the guy. He may have really bad hands, but the Lakers fans turned on him so fast. It’s not like they were the ones who spent the draft pick (though it’s gotta be frustrating to trade Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins away for that and Laron Profit). Kwame does defend though, something Phil Jackson has never praised or even truly cared about.
Lakers fans don’t know a damn thing about defense and don’t care to. Ah, THAT’S why I hate the Lakers and the fans! I had forgotten why ever since they were playing the Celtics in the Finals.
Spottie - my thoughts exactly on Sheed. +infinity
“Kwame for part of the MLE… ”
A less expensive bust. He’s better than Devean George, but it is possible to be better than Devean George and also suck. Kwame fits both criteria. Also, it is cognitive dissonance to bemoan a team’s complacency while suggesting that Kwame Brown would be a welcome addition.
We have plenty of bigs, and I do not buy into the idea that it is vital to have some really huge center.
“You can say it’s because that’s how our offense is contructed around Rip, because Sheed doesn’t post up enough, or because we lack true slashers, but I still say that it’s because Chauncey allows his teammates to settle for jumpers.”
There is a difference between settling for jumpers and shooting jumpers because they are open. Detroit had the 4th best true shooting percentage in the league. Teams that rate well in this category are getting the shots they can execute.
I think people watching the team mistake a methodical approach for complacency. Detroit is very slow and deliberate bringing the ball up the court. This results in relatively few turnovers (though the Pistons are a bit overrated in this category) a relatively high rate of offensive rebounds (rebounders are in position to retrieve a missed shot) and good shots.