Iverson’s debut, and putting the trade in context

The Pistons are in New Jersey tonight, and it’s supposed to be a big deal. Who knew everyone would get so excited about Jarvis Hayes vs. Walter Herrmann? [1] Oh, yeah, that Allen Iverson guy is playing, too. As a prologue to tonight’s game, I’m turning to kevin s. to add a bit of historical context. — MW

_________

By Kevin Sawyer

My father loved him some Adrian Dantley. He would teach me Dantley-style post-up moves in our driveway. He was the original stutter-stepper. When my dad went into the hospital for surgery, I visited my brother at Oakland University. The Pistons happened to be practicing, and I worked hard to get the grizzled Dantley’s autograph.

And what was not to like? He was slow, methodical, and deadly. When he scored his 20,000th point against against Portland, I asked my dad why we didn’t do that play on every possession. He nearly killed himself (Dantley, not my dad) in a head to head collision with Vinnie Johnson in the Eastern Conference Championship against the Boston Celtics. If anyone earned a championship as a Piston, it was Adrian.

No dice.

During the Pistons’ first championship season, Adrian Dantley was traded for Mark Aguirre, the high scoring wing from the Dallas Mavericks. Aguirre wasn’t a conventional Piston. He had averaged 26 and 6 his prior year on a strong squad that was not about to compete against a Laker Dynasty. He was the prototypical high-scorer on an okay team (that would be lottery bound without him). A high-flyer and all that.

Many wondered how he would fit into a tightly wound Piston offense. He only grabbed eight points and five rebounds in his first game against a mediocre west coast team, but a late drive to the basket, which rolled around the rim on its way down, signaled a new style of Pistons basketball. We lost in Overtime, snapping a seven-game win streak (one without Dantley), and Aguirre fouled out. But something felt different.

Of course, you know the rest. We went on to win the championship. Poor Adrian Dantley was helpless to resurrect a squad ravaged by the Roy Tarpley era, and Mark Aguirre became the Taco Bell Unsung Hero of our back-to-back championship runs.

My dad noted that what the Pistons needed was freedom from Dantley’s slow-down style. Quite the Monday morning quarterback, him. All of which is to say, while my analytical side shudders at such a wild trade, the sports fan part of me is excited to see what the rest of this season brings.

That said, I expect more than 8 and 5 from AI against THIS mediocre team.

_________

Well said. The game starts at 7:30 on FSN, and if you’re up for a marathon, switch over to ESPN after the final whistle to catch Chauncey Billups’ debut with the Nuggets at 10:30. And, of course, share your thoughts in the comments.


  1. Yes, I stole that joke

335 Responses to “Iverson’s debut, and putting the trade in context”


  1. 1 Matt Watson

    Since it’s the first question everyone asks lately, let me point out that if you don’t live in the Detroit area, you can watch the game online for free by signing up for the NBA League Pass Broadband free trial, which lasts through Nov. 11.

  2. 2 Jim

    I like the parallels between the two teams there Kevin S.

    We lost the 1st game with Aguirre and we lost the 1st game with Sheed and won championships both years…Go Nets?!?

  3. 3 Keegan

    Oh man, I’m headed off to the bar to watch this one.

    If the Nets win, this board riots.

  4. 4 Joel

    anybody know of a live feed online for the game?

  5. 5 Joel

    didn’t see the post on top, but the questions remains… I can’t get League Pass broadband to work on my computer…

  6. 6 Joel

    *question*

    God, I’m doing awful.

  7. 7 Bryan

    That’s a good story for those of us old enough to remember the significance of the Dantley-Aguirre trade. I tend to shy away from historical comparisons, but this seems somewhat apt.

    That said, I expect the Pistons to win by 30 tonight.

  8. 8 JackDutch

    or use it all year if you have league pass. it’s actually a nice looking interface. i don’t know how smooth the streaming is.

    i loved dantley. that deal was hard to stomach because those pistons were right on the precipice of greatness and it felt like they left a man behind. i wish they had shipped a.d. an honorary ring in ‘89. this feels different because we won with chauncey and then have endured almost-ran status for the past few years with him. everyone knew we needed a change. i’m not sure many people think we wouldn’t have won back-to-backs if we had kept dantley. maybe mark aguirre and kevin’s dad?

    saw dantley at the clips-nugs game the other night since he’s manning the bench for the nugs. i still had the urge to go to him and apologize for the trade, 20 years later. but i’m pretty sure he’s heard that before. and who knows if that disappointment still lingers, 20 years later.

  9. 9 Detroitblue

    does anyone know any other online feeds besides the league pass trial, it didn’t work for me. i live in sydney and when i tried to sign up, it said: “We’re sorry, but the the product or page you have requested is not available in your region, or your region could not be determined at this time.”

    anyone? help? thanks in advance.

  10. 10 mwhyte72

    To me? This is the first game of the season. I’m thrilled w/ this move and think it’s going to pay off big. Can’t wait for the tip.

  11. 11 Forty

    Imagine if you had a company stock plan that was about to vest, contingent on your employment. Then you get fired and your company gets lbo’d a year later, and your unvested options would have been worth a mill. I’m sure he’s still pissed.

  12. 12 Gogol

    Off topic, but does anyone know when the 30 countdown on Dyess starts? Is it from the day the trade was completed, or the day he’s waived?

  13. 13 Forty

    Have been wondering that myself, Gogol…I would guess from day of trade consummation (i.e. yesterday) - would think the point is just to make sure they aren’t playing for Team A a day later, not to make sure they don’t play for Team B for a few months, get bought out, and then immediately return to Team A.

  14. 14 Forty

    Reason #247 to buy League Pass: announcers for bad expansion teams. The Bobcats announcers after a Felton and 1 against the Hornets: “it’s going to be a battle between Ray and Chris Paul all night. Whoever gets in the paint more is going to win the game.”

    Isn’t that like if Georgia had said this summer, “you know, it’s going to be a tough war between us and Russia. Whoever has the bigger bombs is probably going to come away with the w.”

  15. 15 JackDutch

    i love that bobcats announcing team. actually, nix that. i think that stephanie ready chick on the sideline is hot. that’s what i mean by “i love that bobcats announcing team.”

  16. 16 JackDutch

    detroitblue, try this:

    http://www.justin.tv/joebtv

  17. 17 prophecy_projectz

    Im READY for this!

  18. 18 JackDutch

    thgat site just changed it to the detroit feed with blaha and special k.

  19. 19 prophecy_projectz

    As they should

  20. 20 Detroitblue

    thanks heaps jack.

    go pistons!

  21. 21 prophecy_projectz

    Enough with these commercials man I need this game to start lol

  22. 22 Forty

    Predictions for AI’s line?

    I say 20 and 6

  23. 23 Brad

    JackDutch… Thank you for the link!! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

  24. 24 Detroitblue

    jack, joe tv is showing nothing.. or is it just me?

  25. 25 prophecy_projectz

    The Rip-Bubbachuck Era begins!

  26. 26 prophecy_projectz

    AI!

  27. 27 Forty

    ALENNNNNN IIIIIIIIIIIIIIVERSON!

  28. 28 kevin s.

    Iverson looks like he knows what he’s doing.

  29. 29 Primosh

    that’s a nice start for AI..let’s keep it up

  30. 30 Detroitblue

    jeebus i’m only getting audio.. arrrgh.

  31. 31 prophecy_projectz

    Well the offense sets are certainly….different

  32. 32 Forty

    Amir cleaning the glass

  33. 33 kevin s.

    Iverson is having an adverse effect on Prince’s passing ability.

  34. 34 Forty

    That was a great steal by Devin Harris on AI

  35. 35 Primosh

    Amir has a rebound like every minute

  36. 36 kevin s.

    The three-guard look. Interested to see how this goes.

  37. 37 Primosh

    justin.tv freezes like every minute too…damn it

  38. 38 kevin s.

    At this rate, Iverson finishes with 35-10 and Amir threatens the NBA record for rebounds.

  39. 39 JackDutch

    dblue, check again. i just took a peek and it looks like it’s going.

  40. 40 Mike Payne

    That one dude on the Nets team’s head looks like a bullet. Weird.

  41. 41 Forty

    I want some shoes Allen!

  42. 42 prophecy_projectz

    Deeeetroiiit Deeeefeeense

  43. 43 JackDutch

    that was some fantastic d.

  44. 44 prophecy_projectz

    YEsssssir!!!!!!

  45. 45 Boney

    nice play Stuck

  46. 46 kevin s.

    Wow… This is a cray lineup. Do they still do free pizza at the Palace?

  47. 47 prophecy_projectz

    Nice Stuck, unlucky Rip

  48. 48 b23

    Anyone have League Pass hang at 98%? And get it fixed?

  49. 49 kevin s.

    Try it with Explorer, if you haven’t.

  50. 50 prophecy_projectz

    Phoenix East

  51. 51 Boney

    Kwame needs to pick another number than #31

    too much like Darko …. :-\

  52. 52 prophecy_projectz

    lol@ Sheed

    “Come on Leon help him out now”

  53. 53 Forty

    thank you derek fisher

  54. 54 Primosh

    That was beautiful…Stuckey to Rip

  55. 55 JackDutch

    i don’t want to get too high from this early going. this nets roster is not looking good.

  56. 56 Boney

    help em out now Leon help em out

    god I love Sheed

  57. 57 Forty

    Kwame is 38…

  58. 58 kevin s.

    Sauce is really disappointed in this first quarter effort from the Pistons.

  59. 59 prophecy_projectz

    Over or under on AI dropping 40 tonight?

  60. 60 prophecy_projectz

    @ Jackdutch

    Well the real test is Sunday

  61. 61 Boney

    I don’t like how the refs don’t call fouls on DWade for the same shit his defender gets fouls called on him for…

    he reaches and pokes and hacks… no calls

  62. 62 Forty

    Prince is totally fresh for the 2nd quarter, Maxiell has yet to play. We are freaking loaded on this roster.

  63. 63 Boney

    Sauce is mad that Amir Johnson is starting over Dale Davis and Nazr Mohammed.

  64. 64 prophecy_projectz

    Iverson finds new and creative ways to put his mouthgaurd anywhere but in his mouth. Under the headband?

  65. 65 Boney

    uh oh… Wince is limping

  66. 66 kevin s.

    Allen Iverson is having an adverse effect on Prince’s free throw shooting.

  67. 67 Boney

    who is playing the 2 in this lineup? Tay?

  68. 68 kevin s.

    Allen Iverson is having an adverse effect on our veterans’ ability to hit a mid-range jump shot while he is out of the lineup.

  69. 69 Boney

    2 dribbles and a hook?

    I like what Kwame Kilpatrick brings to our postgame

  70. 70 Forty

    Kwame, if you could just do that little backdown jump hook consistently, you’d make 3x your current salary. Just sayin.

  71. 71 prophecy_projectz

    Hollywood Cake (obscoure Lakers joke) with the nice hook!

  72. 72 kevin s.

    Allen Iverson is helping Kwame Brown’s offensive game from afar.

  73. 73 Primosh

    Yeah Kwame! Show them who’s the boss.

  74. 74 Forty

    yes, prince

  75. 75 kevin s.

    The NBA, where the same commercial, over and over, happens.

  76. 76 Boney

    Scott Perry = the future

  77. 77 Rob G

    Me likey what I see, me likey crazy basketball shots that go in

  78. 78 Forty

    lol, the nets announcer just did a “rehearsal” spoof on the “practice” rant

  79. 79 Boney

    shocker, Carter is hurt

  80. 80 Boney

    KWAME DOMINATING BROOK LOPEZ

  81. 81 Forty

    kwame for mayor?

  82. 82 prophecy_projectz

    Hov in the house

  83. 83 Boney

    MAXIELL RAIDING THE NURSERY

  84. 84 kevin s.

    Maxiell to Harris, if you ever do have a baby, I’ll go Planned Parenthood on that bitch.

  85. 85 Forty

    Devin Harris already took Rip’s head off - he’s gonna get killed if he keeps this up

  86. 86 Forty

    I think this is the first time this season where the refs have meaningfully given us an advantage - I thought we got squeezed in a couple of the others

  87. 87 Rob G

    Do superstar players get preferential treatment by refs? If so, we should get a superstar for our team.

  88. 88 Boney

    I’m glad that NBA’s free league pass fucking works… stuck on 98%

  89. 89 Boney

    Josh Boone needs to lose the cornrows…

    looks like he should be playing WNBA

  90. 90 b23

    You and me both, Boney.

    They’re not doing a good job convincing me to buy after the free trial…

  91. 91 prophecy_projectz

    Dont blow it Pistons…

  92. 92 Forty

    Watching AI is going to be fun

  93. 93 Primosh

    not looking good right now

  94. 94 prophecy_projectz

    Classic AI.

  95. 95 b23

    but at least justintv let me see that ankle breaker

  96. 96 Boney

    hahaha

    Najera needs a new jock

  97. 97 prophecy_projectz

    :( at Chauncey and his short in that commerical

  98. 98 kevin s.

    “They’re not doing a good job convincing me to buy after the free trial…”

    Check to see if you are up to date on flash-player and its myriad add-ons.

  99. 99 Boney

    I’m up to date

  100. 100 Primosh

    It’s interesting how video streams never freeze during the commercials…

  101. 101 Boney

    Michael Curry has the most basic looking suits

  102. 102 Boney

    SHEED WITH THE BOMB

  103. 103 Boney

    a “Fiverson” package?

  104. 104 kevin s.

    “It’s interesting how video streams never freeze during the commercials…”

    For NBA TV, I don’t think its streaming.

  105. 105 Mike Payne

    The YES Sports anchor just said: “I can’t use the word ‘baby’ in referring to Jason Maxiell.”

    You have no idea, sir.

  106. 106 prophecy_projectz

    Who the hell on the marketing team came up with Fiverson?

  107. 107 b23

    up to date, reinstalled, tried IE and Firefox, tried clearing the cache, etc etc.

    waiting to hear from NBA LP folks.

  108. 108 prophecy_projectz

    Yeah dont forget defense Phoenix East….

  109. 109 Adam

    These are terrible shots.

  110. 110 prophecy_projectz

    Horrible 2nd quarter

  111. 111 Boney

    you should tell the NBA folks that justintv.com’s picture is more reliable

  112. 112 Primosh

    “For NBA TV, I don’t think its streaming.”

    Yeah..I had justintv in mind and other similar sites. NBA tv doesn’t work in my country

  113. 113 Forty

    We allowed 39…the reason the differential isn’t bigger is b/c we missed some open shots and took some other bad shots (i’m looking at you tayshaun).

    Also, we gave the second fewest minutes to the guy with the most rebounds - that seems like a poor strategy.

  114. 114 Rob G

    We’re winning after shootin 35%, I’ll take it

  115. 115 Gogol

    I wish Curry didn’t believe so much in the “Amir in small doses” technique.

  116. 116 Michael

    Seems like they’re just clogging up the middle. The Pistons are getting open shots, but they can’t knock them down.

  117. 117 JackDutch

    ugh, 35%? that puts the score into perspective…

  118. 118 Gogol

    Somebody should also tell AI that the whole reason we got him was so he could use his driving ability to prevent our droughts. Come on, dude, don’t be TOO unselfish.

  119. 119 Forty

    Yeah, it was not a defensive problem

  120. 120 Tim

    Two things..

    I like AI already especially his ability to run inside and end up at the line every time.

    Stop shooting threes already! I know they are giving them to us but when we don’t make them they just run it out for a dunk. 3’s are great just not as a main course. Where is Sheed down low? What about driving the ball inside? I only wish we had a couple of guards that could do that…

  121. 121 Boney

    AI could not score another point, just knowing that some guy listening to loud rap music is putting that clip of him crossing up Najera into a mixtape that will likely be on YouTube tomorrow is all I need from him

  122. 122 Rob G

    I hate to do this, but
    Boney +1

  123. 123 Mike Payne

    Boney, do you have a camera in my office or something?

  124. 124 Rob G

    Chauncey-esque foul drawn by Rip

  125. 125 Boney

    Rob G,

    One question, why do you hate to do that?

    Another thing, I think that was my first “+1″ in a long time. I haven’t had a +1 since long before LawyerBoy came out from under his bridge to ask 3 riddles this last time…

  126. 126 Boney

    I’ll take a superstar call going Detroit’s way now with AI on the team…

    I’ll never complain about AI flopping again

  127. 127 Rob G

    Now Tay has to use the other side of his mouth to talk

  128. 128 prophecy_projectz

    Gotta stop blowing these big leads

  129. 129 Rob G

    Boney, I don’t know why, maybe cuz you don’t draw the +1s (like you point out), but you deserve every bit of that one

  130. 130 Mike Payne

    @Rob G:
    “Now Tay has to use the other side of his mouth to talk”

    +1

  131. 131 Boney

    Tay with the long gun…

    after AI took 3 steps

  132. 132 Rob G

    Drive and dish, drive and dish

  133. 133 Boney

    AI draws a Wade-esque foul on Carter..

  134. 134 Rob G

    AI is a foul-drawing machine

  135. 135 Mike Payne

    Whoever mentioned the superstar fouls going our way? Yeah, it doesn’t suck. 4 on carter.

  136. 136 Adam

    I used to think Chauncey was the master at drawing fouls … AI is a freaking magician.

  137. 137 prophecy_projectz

    You know not for nothing but Chauncey used to the same thing. We got a lotta calls our way last season. Just saying…

  138. 138 Primosh

    haha Sheed’s the man

  139. 139 Rob G

    Rasheed got T’d, so now we’re gonna dominate

  140. 140 Boney

    KICK MONTY’S ASS SHEED

  141. 141 Boney

    … who names their kid Monty anymore?

  142. 142 prophecy_projectz

    That’s not constructive.

  143. 143 prophecy_projectz

    Too wreckless and losing at there own game.

  144. 144 Mark B.

    Wow. If I were Sheed I’d be pissed too….he gets a clean block called a foul on one end, and then an anal pillage courtesy of Boone not called on the other!

  145. 145 Garrett

    Tayshaun should shoot a free throw like one of his little hooks. That was from pretty far out right there.

  146. 146 Michael

    Sheed is loud and obnoxious, but he’s usually right.

  147. 147 Restructer_It

    Does this game look so weird because it’s the first time we’ve played against a zone this year? It just doesn’t seem right.

  148. 148 prophecy_projectz

    Hate to say it but as much as I love Ai and the team’s aggressivness, they are just being wreckless too. I guess they can work through early this season but this kinda play doesnt get us over the hump. It only buries us, cause right now? No chance in hell we beat Boston or Cleveland.

  149. 149 Garrett

    I just tuned in and it looks like pick-up ball, but I’m guessing that’s because AI doesn’t really know many offensive sets yet.

  150. 150 JackDutch

    spellcheck! hope he doesn’t get lost in the shuffle….

  151. 151 kevin s.

    Harris injured while flopping.

  152. 152 Boney

    yeah prophecy, after game 1 we’re not going to make it out of the 1st round of the playoffs

  153. 153 Garrett

    Argh. I hate seeing guys clutching their ankles and writhing in pain. I’ve had enough of those that I can’t even look at the replays.

  154. 154 Boney

    oh and…

    you don’t hate to say it, you say the same crap all the time.

    according to you, we should probably fire Michael Curry too… why? because in 4 games, it’s obvious he’s not getting through to the players

  155. 155 kevin s.

    “It only buries us, cause right now? No chance in hell we beat Boston or Cleveland.”

    Well, that’s what the next 80+ games are for.

  156. 156 Rob G

    We’ve let the Nets score 30+ this quarter, not good

  157. 157 Rob G

    Whoa, Jarvis fouled somebody instead of playing D, go figure

  158. 158 Forty

    We’re just getting obliterated by Harris…no one can stay in front of him

    They are conceding a lot of open shots on the perimeter, and we’re playing into their hands by driving into a crowd. We need to put two of our best three point shooters on the perimeter, drive and immediately kick, and keep jacking them. We’re shooting 43% - just haven’t taken enough in the second half (only two i think).

  159. 159 Garrett

    Ask and you shall receive, Forty.

  160. 160 Mark B.

    Lol Sheed: “GIVE HIM A TECH, GIVE HIM A TECH!”

  161. 161 Boney

    you know

    perhaps I dont give Rip enough credit (understatement of the year, I know) but I don’t really see anyone who strikes fear into a defense from 3 point land..

    there is no like, specialist on the team from the long gun

  162. 162 kevin s.

    Detroit, where stepping on the line happens.

  163. 163 Rob G

    If Herrmann or Stuckey were hitting their shots, this would be a very different game. Bad shooting nights happen.

  164. 164 Rob G

    @Boney: we should make a play at this Jarvis guy. I hear he’s a three-point specialist

  165. 165 Boney

    it’s a shame that this team is so deep, I’d really like to see what Afflalo can do

  166. 166 prophecy_projectz

    Boney, I love the fact you think we’ll meet Boston or Cleveland in the 1st round. I agree 7th or 8th seed forus this year. Mau Mau.

  167. 167 JackDutch

    based on the increased scoring by quarter, the nets are due to put up 45 points in the 4th.

  168. 168 Forty

    @Boney - I wouldn’t want to leave Rip or Herrmann if I’m the Nets…

  169. 169 Boney

    I don’t like Jarvis now… he’s been hanging out with Vince too long

    he’s more concerned about his accessories (knee socks and wrist bands) than defense or non-forced jumpshots

  170. 170 prophecy_projectz

    FABIO!!!

  171. 171 Boney

    STOP PLAYING DEFENSE ON YOUR FUCKING HEELS

    BALLS OF YOUR FEET, DONT GET FLAT

  172. 172 Rob G

    If you use caps, they will hear you! :)

  173. 173 Boney

    I hate Keyon Dooling too

  174. 174 prophecy_projectz

    Eli sounds a lot like Casey Kasemm

  175. 175 prophecy_projectz

    Like the agressivness stuck

  176. 176 Boney

    god damn… lose the hair Boone

  177. 177 prophecy_projectz

    Wow@ the Heat leading the Spurs by 20

    /thread jacked

  178. 178 prophecy_projectz

    lol….Jay doesnt care about his team. lol

  179. 179 prophecy_projectz

    Push push push

    Nice sheed

  180. 180 Rob G

    This just in from the HTML feed:
    9:41 NJ - J. Hayes misses a layup

    Go figure

  181. 181 prophecy_projectz

    Drive it in guys come on!

  182. 182 Michael

    Too bad Stuckey doesn’t get the same calls Devin Harris gets.

  183. 183 prophecy_projectz

    Has Curry called a timeout in this game?

  184. 184 Boney

    you know

    even though the main pieces are still kind of there…

    this team looks different with Kwame, AI, Stuckey… I mean, jesus this is like bizarro world

  185. 185 Rob G

    PP: yes

  186. 186 prophecy_projectz

    Finally!

  187. 187 Rob G

    This is AI’s chance. No one is scoring. He can take over right now and not be considered selfish. He should just do this

  188. 188 Rob G

    Why are we allowing JOSH FUCKIN BOONE to do this?

  189. 189 prophecy_projectz

    Fucking Phoenix East.

  190. 190 JackDutch

    we shouldn’t be beat by the crap lineup the nets rolled out onto the floor. this is just stupid.

  191. 191 Primosh

    Someone needs to kick Boone’s ass because he’s kicking ours

  192. 192 kevin s.

    Missing McDyess right now… Big time.

  193. 193 Michael

    How do you call a team that can’t hit wide open outside shots Phoenix East?

  194. 194 prophecy_projectz

    I know it just a regular season game but this was a give me. Ugh at allowing so much offense and blowing that big of a lead. Well at least people cant call us boring anymore.

  195. 195 Forty

    For what it’s worth, I think Iverson has gotten more cheap calls than Harris. Our smalls can’t keep Harris in front - when that happens you’re going to draw fouls…

  196. 196 prophecy_projectz

    @ Micheal

    Because Im putting emphasis on the EAST part.

  197. 197 Boney

    you know, I am worried that Dyess won’t come back

  198. 198 kevin s.

    Alright, this is what we got AI for, yah? Greenlight, little dude. Show us how you won those scoring titles.

  199. 199 prophecy_projectz

    Oh my fucking god, how is that not a foul on Harris?????

  200. 200 piñon lopez

    first post back on the board since the end of last season.. though I’ve been reading most of the off time and start of this season.

    truly sad to see chaunce and dice outta here - like everyones been saying its a forced breakup! feel bad dice never got a ring here and unlikely that he will.

    not sure how i feel about AI - just a bit numb or ambivalent - the idea of having a ’superstar’ kind of turns me off, like someone who is going to ALWAYS be the stones ‘player of the game’..

    anyways, good to be back, hey to q-dog, joejoejoe, and other stones! the january game with the blazers here in town???

  201. 201 prophecy_projectz

    Bad shot selection

  202. 202 kevin s.

    Make up call on Harris.

  203. 203 Boney

    goodnight Yi

    Stuc