As you may have noticed, I didn’t have a chance to post a recap to last night’s debacle. Fortunately, DBB reader DJ was at the game and posted the following account in the game thread comments this morning. It was so interesting, I decided to re-post it here so it wouldn’t be missed:
I was at the game last night. Seats were not that great, but in all honesty, there really isn’t a “bad” seat in the house.
The flagrant 2 on Shaq may very well be overturned, I am no expert, by after watching it over and over and over on my DVR, it appears that Shaq was trying to block a potential layup and Stuckey was quicker than Shaq realized, just my opinion.
Detroit seemed to have forgotten to pack up there defense when they left LA, 52 points in the paint, I don’t think any “defensive” team wins by allowing about 50% of an opponents points to come from the painted area.
There were a lot of Pistons fans in attendance as was mentioned. Most were “good” fans, several were extremely drunk and rather obnoxious. There was at least one other DBB fan there as he kept screaming “Free Amir”, the only Pistons fans I know that use that phrase have frequented this site, although most tell me they don’t like to post (why is beyond me).
Stuckey. This young man is a lot quicker in person than he appears on TV.
Bynum. Makes Stuckey look slow.
Rip. Looks like he finally found his shot, this is a good thing. A backcourt with Rip and AI running around is going to be difficult for any team to contend with
AI. The answer looked bored, perhaps all the moving, relocating and everything that goes along with a trade finally got to him, although 7 dimes isn’t a bad number.
Brown. Played excellent against Shaq, not so excellent against Lopez. Slow fat guys (read Perkins) should get owned by Kwame.
Wallace. I thought Rasheed would have been better off in the low post, when he did go down there, he looked like he could get whatever he wanted all night. However, with the game he had from outside against LA, I figured he would camp out and that hurt us. Several Piston fans around me made very similar comments. Everytime he had the ball, SHEEEED was screamed throughout the center.
Prince. If he plays the remainder of the year at 60% of this level, he will be an All-star and probably first team all defense, even the Suns faithful were giving Tay props, it was nice to hear.
As my wife and I were heading to the game, a Suns fan asked me if I thought Detroit could beat Phoenix, I naturally told him yes, but we were hear to get a look at our 2011 staring PF, this drew a small crowd, and shockingly, most felt that Amare would fit in well with Detroits offense, but that his defense would hurt us, after watching the game, I think Coach Porter has figured out how to unlock Amare’s defense, he wasn’t half bad.
All in all, had Detroit played defense this game could have been won. Hell, take away a quarter of the points in the paint, and this was a close game. AI didn’t seem like a liability defensively, even on the ball. Our man defense was ok, but our help defense was really lacking.
Pheonix fans, Jazz fans, and Toronto fans are gonna get tired of Pistons fans saying “FPAS” and “FPCB”
Oops, I mean “Phoenix”. I before E and all that.
http://www.nba.com/media/pistons/ladiesbleed_081205.jpg
Kevin Garnett suspended one game for being an uncontrollable jackass:
http://www.nba.com/2008/news/11/17/garnett.bogut/index.html?rss=true
The determination made by Stu Jackson is wholly appropriate to me having seen the game live. Of course the original decision to assess a technical to Bogut got him ejected (2nd technical). If they had just given him a flagrant (personal) foul, he would’ve been allowed to stay in the game at a point where Milwaukee led by 5 with just under 4 minutes remaining in regulation. Just another reminder that Kevin Garnett can’t control himself on the court and in terms of toughness is all talk and absolutely no walk.
Boston narrowly escaping Milwaukee with a win they didn’t deserve coming when the Bucks didn’t even have Redd or Villanueva available raises some suspicion on how good this year’s Boston really is. I’d be much more uneasy for this season’s prospects if I were a Celtics fan right now than I am right now being a Pistons fan. The Celtics didn’t get their 3rd loss until their 23rd game last season. Something tells me they aren’t going to repeat that this year if they’re falling asleep at the wheel against a short-handed Milwaukee team.
I expect us to be pretty exhausted after Cleveland on Wednesday and we’ve had some Jekyll and Hyde in us adjusting to AI so far. I think Cleveland is the best team in the East thus far this season. Under any other circumstance than playing Cleveland (or a comparable opponent) the night before, I’d expect us to avenge the early season loss to Boston on Thursday. Win or lose this week, we get two more cracks at these jokers, and to me they’re simply not the same team that dominated last year.
We should start a running vote of Carlos Boozer, Chris Bosh, or Amare Stoudamire. My vote is for Bosh. I might change it if Amare gets rid of that stupid mohawk.
I vote Bosh for the Pistons, Amare for my fantasy team.
Hands down, Bosh. He was the best player on that Olympic squad and would kick ass alongside Tay.
Bosh would be my first choice, followed very closely by Amare. I think Amare may be a more likely canidate to switch teams though. In the summer of 2010 Shaq and Nash both have their contracts expire…Shaq will likely retire and Nash will not be the same player he has been these last couple years if he even wants to return(his numbers are already down this year). If winning is truly important to Amare, then Phoenix won’t have much to offer him.
Am I the only one frantically refreshing dbb.com every 5 minutes or so awaiting the results of the posting up drawing?
Bosh. Bosh. And more Bosh.
Or Amare.
Let’s face it, though: if, somehow, Detroit lands either one of those, this is a happy place to be.
I have to give some love to Carlos Boozer also. If we can’t get Bosh or Amare, then Carlos Boozer would be the best third choice I’ve ever seen. All of them are even in PER so far this season at 26.**
We also could go for Boozer as a first choice so we can land another great rotation piece along with him…
**Because we would probly get him the cheapest
I might go with Boozer if he weren’t injury prone. So I go with Bosh.
No, on Amare. The guy’s just not a winner. Bosh is just as good a finisher and is more adept at creating his own shot.
1. Bosh
2. Boozer
3. Amare
I’m not sure you can cite durability as a reason to pick Boozer over Bosh, who’s averaged 13 missed games each of the past three years.
If I had to rank ‘em, I’d go Bosh, Amare, Boozer.
I’m going to go with Bosh. The only thing that slightly concerns me is that every time I look at his box score, it looks like he’s taking like 20 shots a night. It could just be a fluke like that one summer where every time I checked a Pirates box score Humberto Cota was like 3-4 with a double. He’s also younger than both Amare and Boozer.
why is everybody o.k. with shaq’s act from last night. the guy is such a big loser. he thinks it is a joke that he took stuckey’s head off. where is the indignation over his refusal to leave the court? his lack of respect for the new coach who seems to be doing a pretty damn good job. if i were porter i would sit his ass on the bench to teach him a lesson. i don’t like shaq.
bosh has a sense of humor. remember that video as the texan car salesman to get people to vote for him as an all star
LB,
Had Bogut gotten a flagrant BEFORE possibly getting called for a T then he likely wouldn’t have been ejected. Flagrant and a T = ejection.
KG knew what he was doing… the same thing that LeBrick and Kobe do when they’re frustrated about getting aggressively d’d up, they throw cheapshot elbows and forearms.
So check this. Anyone who watched the Sacremento game last week remembers that idiot fan yelling in the background through Blaha’s mic right? Well I happened to be cruising a few youtube videos and found this. Apparently this guy is a repeat offender.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB3MvD6uLR8&feature=related
Solid find.
You know what they say about men who wear pink right?
Anybody notice that KG’s the second player in a week to get suspended for the game before they play us?
Boozer - great FG%, great rebounder, ok D
Amare - great FG%, good rebounder, meh D
Bosh - good FG%, good rebounder, great D
Until I see the Pistons roster in ‘10, I can’t pick. If you can’t build around Karl Malone or Barkley and win a championship then PF isn’t the position you build your team around.
A lot depends on who Detroit has playing next to FPXX at center. Right now ‘Sheed looks like he could play forever at PF with a big center next to him and Roscoe’s got fewer miles on his odometer than KG. 2 years is a long way away. Maybe the smart play is to offer max deals to Al Horford and Thad Young and see if they get matched. Or pick up a grab bag of Luc Mbah a Moute, Tyson Chandler, and Tony Parker and lock up Stuckey and Prince long term.
Cannot predict now. Ask again later.
Well San Antonio certainly built around Tim Duncan, but maybe he’s the best PF ever.
Restructer_It: Funny you should say that. The announcers doing the spurs/clips game said if you look at Duncan, he gets 2 more rigns in the next 3-5 years, would he be considered not only the best PF ever, but the best player ever. FWIW
joejoejoe,
you might as well forget about Horford and Young.
Unless of course we’re trading Rasheed Wallace and Chauncey Billups for Dalembert, Thad Young and that other donk on the 76ers Willie Green
Good point about Duncan.
I don’t really think of him as a PF but I guess he is one in today’s game. His game is nothing like Karl Malone or Barkley or Dirk or any of the other PFs that I think of as prototype PF. Duncan’s game is more like Akeem then anybody else in my mind. In any case I don’t think any of the three players we are talking about have the competitive motor of Tim Duncan.
@QD - Totally with you about Amare not being a winner. I always think I’m alone about seeing him as the Marbury of big men.
I’d be completely fine with us going ofter Boozer rather than the ‘10 class - imagining him and Stuck on the pick and roll would just be scary. I also think we’d have a hard time bringing in Bosh, if for no reason than that Toronto can put up a pretty good challenge in everything we offer - money, talent, fan base, great weather. I think Bosh would be best for us because of everything he brings to the table, but Boozer would also be a great fit.
Seems like everyone agrees that Bosh is the best bet. He is the safest pick I think, but Jesus have you guys seen Amare this year. He is pretty much unguardable. His D sucks, but man his offense is way better than either Bosh or Boozer.
Who needs D when you can just score more than the other guy?
*turns in Pistons card to MP*
Garret,
Ha!
Tim Duncan is THE prototypical PF. Barkley? Undersized. Dirk? The most non-PF PF of all time. Malone was Timmy D minus the defense, clutch-ness, and team-leading ability. Not only is Duncan the exact prototype of a traditional power forward, he is without a doubt the greatest to ever play his position. There aren’t too many other people in the realm of team sports that you can really say are truly the best ever at their position– Tim Duncan, Jerry Rice, maybe MJ as far as pure SG’s go.
I WAS AT THE GAME IN PHX AS WELL - I AGREE OVERALL WE COULDNT PLAY DEFENSE - BUT I DONT AGREE THE SHAQ FLAG 2 WILL BE OVERTURNED - IT WAS A HARD DUMB FOUL AND HE KNOWS IT
THE ONE THING THAT BOTHERED ME IS IN THE FOURTH WE PULLED WITHIN 8 PTS AND AI, RIP AND TAY WERE ON THE BENCH - CURRY DIDNT PUT THEM BACK IN UNTIL THE 5 MIN MARK AND WE WERE BACK DOWN BY 15
CURRY MISSED THE BUS ON THIS ONE
Though I prefer Amare and Bosh, I would rather target Boozer, given that we would have the opportunity to resign one or both of our free agents and make an immediate championship run.
I’m not sure a Chris Bosh is worth tanking a season, and I’m not sure Bosh-Stuckey-Hamilton-Prince is a championship core.
Fred W. Capel, is that you? What were you doing in Phoenix?
@Garrett:
staples it to my wall, right next to Ben Wallace’s dignity.
I’m a big Duncan fan. I just view him as center-ish. He plays a lot of the opposition centers on D which is something that Barkley, Dirk, and Karl Malone didn’t do. And most PFs get out on the break and finish and Duncan doesn’t do a lot of that. I know Timmeh doesn’t like to be called a center but if he played next to ‘Sheed or KG or Dirk who would play C and who would play PF. Duncan would be C everytime, no?
These labels get too restrictive anyway. A basketball player is a basketball player. I blame myself for going off on a tangent.
Kevin S. - That makes a whole lot of sense. Only thing is that the ‘09 class isn’t as good as ‘10 class so it could be a sellers market (depending on who has cap room). Seems like if you have multiple teams fighting over Boozer, he could get overpaid. For instance, I could see signing him for 11-12 million a year, but not 15.
As much as he frustrates me, Sheed still has basketball in him. And he’s good for the younger players. What do you think he’ll resign for?
Re: ‘Sheed resign number
It’s not exactly the same but Mutombo went from making $16M in ‘02-03, his 13th year in the league, to making $4M in ‘03-04. It’s not the same because Deke was injured in ‘03 and ‘Sheed is healthy but they do have similar star status and mileage. I’d guess Wallace gets something between $8-10M depending on the length and terms of the deal. Stackhouse is a decent comparison and he makes $7M this season.
I’d offer him a two year deal @ $8M per with a player option for a third year. I’d add player options again and again until Rasheed wants to retire.
qd-isn’t that an absolute flip-flop for you?
bosh. though he isn’t a winner yet either, he plays great d and gets to the rim like a guard.
“For instance, I could see signing him for 11-12 million a year, but not 15.”
I don’t mind overpaying by 3 million for a guy who will be 27 next year. He’s talented enough to put us over the top, but young enough to build around down the road. I think we have to make the offer.
I think Sheed would come back for a McDyess type contract. Can’t see him wanting to commit to playing into his 40s, and I can’t see him making much more on the open market.
Not sure what to do with Iverson. I think he might come back. Dude has a LOT of money.
‘Sheed is still pretty darn good. If you are the Lakers wouldn’t slotting Rasheed Wallace into Lamar Odom’s roster spot make a lot of sense in ‘09? Cleveland has Snow and Szczerbiak’s money ($20M) coming off the cap next year. I think there will be a market for Rasheed Wallace and not at much of a discount.
“I don’t mind overpaying by 3 million for a guy who will be 27 next year. He’s talented enough to put us over the top, but young enough to build around down the road. I think we have to make the offer.”
I guess. As long as we have some money to either resign sheed at a discount or Ai at a discount or a mystery third “good rotation piece”. I dunno, there are a lot of variables. Could we actually get Ai, Sheed, and Boozer under contract? Would we want to? If we can only get Boozer, do we look for more frontcourt or maybe a backup for Stuckey? Crazy to think about a starting line up of Stuckey, Rip, Prince, Boozer, Amir/Max/Kwame. Hard to say what to expect. That could be a really good team if Stuckey and Amir take the next step - or it could be mediocre. The next year or so is not going to be boring.
Not to state the obvious, but doesn’t how we finish this year have a direct impact on next year. It’s pretty clear that we need another big guy right now today. What if McDyess retires after the season? What if AI walks? What if Sheed and AI walk and Dyess retires? There’s way too many variables to sit here and throw scenarios around.
Kevin is right, AI has serious FU money and if we come close and he can take a massive pay cut and we can add somebody like Boozer, he might just do it. And the bonus is that he can do it without being called a ring chaser because he was traded here.
It is totally way to early to think about this stuff, but sometimes you just need a fix and when there’s no game on, hypothesizing out yo ass is the next best thing.
Can we add Lebron to this list? He is playing some 4 now.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081118/SPORTS0102/811180471/1127/rss13
I still can’t see him coming to Detroit, but the whole World Wide Wes connections and those quotes about how winning a title will be the most important thing in free agency have to make you think there is just the slightest chance he could come here. I’m sure Joe D could put on a great sales pitch if given the chance.
*too
I think the biggest consideration for Sheed giving us the hometown discount is how realistic he sees the possibility of Joe D. ever hiring him as a head coach. He’s definitely made himself a home here and I know I wouldn’t mind seeing him working the sidelines (other’s opinions on that?), but I think he’ll wind down his career wherever he feels the management would give him the best chance at being a coach eventually which would play a bigger factor than his next paycheck.
I agree with Other Matt in that how we finish this year will be the biggest indicator for AI. I think if he feels he meshes with our system and could win a title here, he’d definitely sign for cheap. Anyone know, don’t we get his Bird Rights?
Keeping one of those two would be key for our transition. I’m with the consensus that the Stuck/Rip/Tay/FPXX/Amaxme lineup is underwelming, but add Sheed and/or AI playing the sixth man role? Nice. Remember how key Reggie Miller was to that Pacers team that was good before Larry Bird got ahold of it was?